 All right. I think we're all here. Sounds good. Hello. Hey everybody. Thanks for holding out with us. We have a few technical glitches as is what happens sometimes. It's so great to be here. It's really wonderful to be part of this. It's so great to be part of this. It's so great to be part of this. It's so great to be part of this whole BIPOC series and to have been involved in it and to have all of these amazing authors and illustrators come and see us and visit us here in San Francisco or wherever you all are watching from. Let us know in the chat where you are all are coming from. I think we're going to hold on a little bit since we have a little glitch. New York. I'll be in New York at the beginning of August. Can't wait. If folks have a chance to tune in here. Some folks still coming in. We have a wonderful set of artwork that we're going to look at. Thank you so much. What a beautiful design. It's great to be here with Mr. Hale. Hello, Jay. Coming by. Shall we get going then? Hello. My name is Pauline. introduce our presenter I want to thank you all for coming. And thank you again for letting us know in the chat where you all are, are tuning in from. I would like to acknowledge that I am in San Francisco, California, where I live and work on the unceded land of the Mitush Bologna peoples today's program is part of summer stride, which is the San Francisco public libraries annual summer learning program. This is just one of hundreds of virtual programs that foster the love of reading and learning taking place this summer for a full calendar. This is the summer stride website, which you should be able to see in the chat sfpl.org is always a good place to go for all sorts of great information. This program would not be possible. Without the friends of the San Francisco public library. We owe a lot to these folks they fund our programs every year. We couldn't get by without them so thank you to the friends. I invited today's wonderful book creator because I love Ken Wilson Max's whimsical and warm artwork, and how it conveys love and empathy. I also selected Ken's book Astro girl in particular, because it represents many things near and dear to my heart, girls and science, girls and their dads, imaginative play kids friendships, mom's in the workforce. And last but certainly not least, showing young kids and readers of this book that they can be anything, even an astronaut no matter what they look like. The world is filled with possibilities and astro girl is not afraid to go and seek them out. You'll have a chance to ask Ken your questions. Just put them in the Q amp a box if you're watching in zoom, or the chat in your watching on from YouTube. So now, I'm delighted to introduce all the way from London England. Ken Wilson Max. Ken was born and raised in Zimbabwe, where he trained to be a graphic designer with a strong focus on critical thinking. Ken has worked on more than 70 published books for children since 1995. His books have been published worldwide in over 10 languages from Chinese to Zulu. His latest title Astro girl is the winner of the 2020 steam award for picture books in the UK. Ken works with several UK organizations UK. That's United Kingdom folks for those who don't know that's United Kingdom. Including the book tries book trust Center for Literacy and Primary Education, and the International Board on books for the young Association of illustrators and work book day. He is an Astrid Lindgren Memorial Award 2021 nominee. Ken is also the owner publisher at Atlanta Max Limited, which publishes naturally inclusive diverse children's books. Ken says I have always believed that is worth celebrating how people are more similar than different. I have also seen over the last few decades how much better it is for children of all backgrounds to see or read themselves in books and that is certainly something that we believe in wholeheartedly 200% at the San Francisco Public Library. So, without further ado, please give a warm San Francisco Public Library welcome to our guest author and illustrator, Ken Wilson Max. Hello everybody. And thank you very much for inviting me. This is one of my favorite books. I enjoy all the books that I make, but this one, it has such a special place in my in my mind and in my heart because it's a really a story of, of, let's say my childhood. It comes from there it comes from all the people that were influential to me when I was growing up when I was a little, a little boy. And most of those people were women. They were my mom, my aunts, my sister, my cousins. That's not to say that the men weren't there they were there but the women were just there more. Let's put it that way. And so Astro girl is one of these books what I'm going to try and do now is, I'm going to read it to you. And, and then after you, after the reading, after the reading we'll, we'll have a chat about it. There we go astro girl. It's very interesting the story of how the book actually came to life is also almost as as good as a story itself. Astro girl astrid loved the stars and space, ever since she could remember. So she was into Star Wars rockets, aliens, and at the same time you know she also loved a really nice big bows, and she has a nice pet dog, whose name I never got to add I must admit so we can, maybe we can find the name for the dog right now. I want to be an astronaut. Astro told her best friend Jake, as they gazed up at the stars. Will you bring me an asteroid when you come back from space. Ask Jake. Of course I will Jakey. I'm an astronaut. Astrid said at breakfast. Are you sure Papa asked. You'll have to go round and round the earth in a spaceship, and he swung around. I'm sure we all remember what it was like to be swung around by a mum or dad. I can do that said Astrid giggling. What about eating food out of a tube or a package. Every day. I can do that said Astrid as she months to serial bar. Okay astro girl. Well, you'll also have to get used to zero gravity and Papa threw her up in the air. I can do that all day long astrid laughs. What about all the science experiments as Papa. Could you do those my brave explorer. No problem. As they made rocket ship cookies. And will a space cadet like you be able to sleep on your own amongst the stars. Papa asked. I think that will be very hard. But I'll do it. Astrid. At last, it was time to get to go get mama astrid war her favorite space t-shirt. We've all got one. I'm sure. That's a space center astrid and her papa. Move to the front to the crowd, just as the doors opened. Mama astrid gave her mother a big kiss. She said, I want to be an astronaut. Just like you said astrid. You're my hero. That's the end of that story. Now, I should learn a lot about being an astronaut. The word astronaut comes from two Greek words. Astron, meaning star and notice, meaning sailor. I don't know which sounds better. Somehow star sailor has got something to it anyway. American astronauts Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin were the first to land on the moon in the lunar module eagle on July the 20th 1969. And the first animal to go to orbit was a dog named Leica on the Russian Sputnik two spacecrafts in 1957. And like I don't think Leica came back. So who knows who knows what likeers up to right now. And then astrid found out that there were a whole lot of ladies who had been to space already. Valentina Tereshkova from Russia was the first woman in space and that was in 1963. And then Shannon Lucid from the United States set an early record for the longest time spent in space by a woman and that was in 1996. It was the first day she was up in space, up in space. And then make Harold Jemison was the first African American woman in space and that was in 1992. Helen Sharman was the first British astronaut and the first woman to visit the mere space station in 1991. And Calpana Chowla was the first woman born in India to go to space in 1997. And that was because that space food is freeze dried so that it won't spill and cause any damage to the machines. But fruit, bread and nuts are okay as they are. So obviously, you can't have droplets of water in space because they float around, just like the people, they don't drop onto the floor and make a mess they stay there and so you can imagine how weird that is, or how fun, I think, depending on who you are. So what we found out was that astronauts train underwater to create the feeling of floating in space. So, if you've ever taken a dive into a pool or into the sea or into the ocean, and you kind of move around. That is just like being in space, which is quite, quite a good, quite a good thing. It's something we can all do or something we can at least all try without having to go up into the stars. So that is the story of Astrid. I hope you, I hope you enjoyed that Astrid and Astro Go. Yeah, and I think it's one of those books that as I say is very, very, very, very special to me, I've been, it took me a long time to get to, to show it and get and, you know, help it get published. And I just, I just, in the end, when I finally found a way to, when I found, when I finally find out, found out how to, to make this book happen. It happened really quickly, but before then it took, it took, it took actually took many years, nine years, imagine. So some of you who are four and five this book was being made way before you were born. But it is one of those books and one of the other things I like about the book is that it talks about taking all the things that we think boys do, and it just turns them over, which is another thing that I have from my childhood when, you know, as I say, both my parents were there but my, my mom was there, my dad was working all the time. So my mom and her sisters were the ones who were always looking after us telling us stories, keeping us happy, making sure we didn't get into trouble. And it was just my sister and me and at the time. And, you know, I lived, I lived on the edge of a, of a big animal reserve, pretty much in the bush. And it seemed normal to me to see wildlife just outside the fence. But I think whenever I tell people that that we'd wake up in the morning because there were elephants walking by going to the watering hole. They find it hard to believe, but that's exactly how it was and for me it was normal until until I got into the big city and realize that city life was something quite different. All I wanted to do was somehow pass the magic of being a child in a, in a place that's a little bit special and try to see if I can get other children to think about their own dreams and ideas and to never give up. That's what that was. That was what one of my main, one of my main goals there. So let's see what else do I have here. Should we look at your drawings? Yes, please. Let's do that. Let's do that. I can talk about the drawings. So as I said, this is what Astrid looked like when I first had the idea. I wasn't thinking of my childhood. I was thinking of the fact that I wanted to do a book about a girl who dreamt about being an astronaut because there were just so many boy and men astronauts out there. And it seemed like it's just a boy and man world when it isn't, it isn't at all. And I kept thinking, but I need to show that girls and women can do as much as, as, as boys and men. And one of the things that drove me was in my head, I kept thinking of a conversation I'd had with my sister when we were kids, when we talked about space and she'd say things like, yeah, but in space there's no gravity so everything is equal. So that means everyone is equal. And I actually think, yeah, that's true. That's very true. So I just wanted to do that, but I still hadn't connected my own childhood experiences with the story. And first I wanted Astrid to be somebody who was in a very rich family, let's say, and both the parents are really busy. And she was almost a little bit, a little bit too insistent. She was always insisting that she wanted something and she was always looking for some attention. And after making this initial sketch and making, I made a storyboard if some of you don't know what a storyboard is, it's like when you, when you draw the pictures that go, this is what happens first and this is what happens next and these are little kind of notes that notes in pictures that take you from the beginning to the end of the story so you can help think about it. And I also talked to people about, about what you've been doing. And so I made this whole storyboard and I realized that I didn't really like Astrid very much so I actually like the dog. I liked her dog more than that goes to myself, something is wrong here because the story is about Astrid, it's not about, you know, and I didn't like her parents and I just thought no, no, no. I took it back to the drawing board and I left it alone for maybe a year. I just left it alone. I think I was a bit disappointed myself and then I tried again. And when I tried again, I kind of began to understand that perhaps for her to seem real. She had to somehow come from somewhere in my own memory on my own experience. And just because I write and I illustrate, I'm able to take my own, my own childhood memories and turn them into something. But, you know, I didn't always know how to do that. So I think if you, if you have notebooks and things like I have loads of notebooks like this very, very cheap, small notebooks. And if you have them, it's good to take your ideas and write them down or draw them or do whatever it is you need to do to remember something and keep them because one day they're always going to, you know, they're going to come, they're going to come in very, very useful and it doesn't matter if they may come in useful if you become an accountant or a lawyer or or a doctor so they're not just useful because you're going to be an artist or not. I love that idea of gravity as an equalizer. That is fantastic. And I like that sentence and somehow it got lost I think when I when I change the mood and the feeling when I finally discovered what what Astrid should look like, and what her family should be. I, let's say I got rid of that text and I started another, I started another. Let's look at another drawing. Yes, yes. So in, in this one, because she was spending a lot of time with her dad, I wanted her to to somehow, you know, they spent, you know, they would sit on the grass. As we would actually sit in the grass, my dad when he came back from work and we just sort of watch the sunset or look at the stars because we live in a place that was quite remote so there was no street lamps around. It was just all you could do a see this amazing, amazing sky with loads and loads of stars, and we'd sit there and we'd tell stories, you know, traditional stories from his own childhood or anyway he would just make fun and laugh it was great it was great to have family time like that. We were just my sister and I would just imagine loads of possibilities at the time. And in this version of the story, if you notice in the corner in the top left there's, there's a what looks like a number like a number four. And in that version of the story, which was now maybe two or three years later. And I thought to myself, what if I sort of has a countdown to something, and I'll try not to tell people what that something was, but I was thinking maybe every time you turn the page. The calendar was was moving, you know, the days were were going away the numbers were changing until she got to the time when she was going to see her mom, basically, and it sounded like a good idea. It somehow it just didn't deliver enough of a surprise the end so that idea went. And at the same time, I realized that the perfect picture to have was not her and her dad, but her and her friend. And, you know, I've done other books where the girl has a girlfriend and the boy has a friend who's a boy as well. Her to have a friend who was a boy. I love Jakey. I love that she calls him Jakey. Exactly. Exactly. And this picture. This picture from where it started to where it is is like, it's all about taking the idea of who, who is the adventurer and who is the person waiting to be wowed, you know, taking the idea of what's gender male female and just turning it upside down. She's the explorer, and he's the guy who's going to be waiting waiting for to come back and I thought that that was the very thing I was trying to do so it captured everything and I want to do a book about Jakey on his own. That's completely and he's a different type of guy he just has his own, his own way and I'm trying to I've just got to, I've got to start writing it but I thought I quite liked him, even though he appears, you know, just this once. This was the idea and I wanted to capture that real friendship and love between them, and the fact that it was at night and they were quite free because they're in a garden somewhere. I know, because I live in, I live in London now that not many people have big gardens, you know, but especially because of things like the recent lockdowns. Many people have been sitting in parks and enjoying nature in that way and I think this is one of those type of things you don't have to have a garden to enjoy lying on the grass gazing up to the sky. So one of my favorite pictures from that is one of my favorites to I love the depiction of the friendship. Yeah, definitely, definitely. What do we have next. Here we go. Oh, in this picture, I wanted to really show what someone like Astrid's room is like, and this is meant to be what she's like. Okay. She's got everything that she's interested in from high fashion to soft toys to, you know, all the kind of sci-fi and space stem stuff that that she just into. This, as I was making this picture and it started off with me sort of maybe trying to draw from from her from her room light looking down at her in the room and I thought, well, that's not a good angle and I had to move around a bit. And really and truly it took a long time to figure out what it was and also with with with with books like with picture books, they really are meant to be quite simple. So, you know, you can't really put too much in them, but they're meant to encourage people to talk about a whole lot of things so that's the trick and I had to really figure out just a few things that tell you about who she is and what her room looks like. And then, of course, I added her dog and put her by the window so that she could look through it with her telescope because I thought, well, if you like space, you've got to have a telescope. I mean, that makes sense doesn't it. And I think the next picture is it in color. So it went from that to to this. Okay. And the one thing, you know, so she's got a library of books, she's got, you know, books about space, she's got a little globe there. And then she's got the fun stuff alien Star Wars rockets, little, you know, alien looking things. A bed cover that that has comments on it. But a really fancy nice to early bed because you know, at the heart of it, you know, she's still astrid and little bits of her little bits of her mother little bits of her dad's just a normal person who has a specific sense of something that, you know, say some years ago people would have thought was a bit strange. But now I think children as to age are encouraged to do anything and everything so I have a daughter and I want her to be anything that she wants to be, to be honest with you, because when I was young, I was, I was only going to be one or two things until I decided, you know, I decided to choose my own destiny. That that that wasn't easy for my parents because they were intent on me, you know, doing something else. So it was very, very interesting, a very interesting time. And one thing I can one more thing I can tell you is that her dog, even though he doesn't have a name he or she doesn't have a name or I wasn't even sure what whether it's he or she, but it's based on my daughter's dog whose name is Toby. He has a complete mad type of a dog. He's crazy. And he's very, you know, he's got black fluffy fur, and really big eyes just like that and he kind of stands on the stairs and kind of looks at you like this, you know, when you're talking to him as though he doesn't know who you are, and very stubborn, but I just thought his character suited this so. I think one of the things I'm going to ask, because I know if I'm going to have questions, the one question I'm going to ask is, give me a name for the dog. Let's see what happens. But yeah, it's, it's, let's see what else. That's interesting that you say that because in the chat, we're saying star sailor is a great name. It's true, that is a great name. Actually, I'm going to write that down. You should, before somebody steals it, man. So, normally, if I was standing and we were all in one room, I would, I would draw this but now I'm going to show you this is what what happens you take a few lines, and you can create something out of a few lines you necessarily have to paint like a grandmaster or like you know, Leonardo da Vinci or anything like that, you just have to find your own way of doing things. And in this case, I wanted to ask you to have a nice big round face, always funny and a character, but I knew that I didn't have, you know, I didn't want to paint it like a, like a photograph I just wanted her to. I wanted to capture the fun and the character of her in as in as little in as few lines as possible, and then try and make sure that the paint did a lot of the work afterwards. And you know she has to be a little bit feisty. And, you know, she's a kind of never she never gives up kind of character so it was fun to try and capture that and this took quite a few months of practicing to find that way of doing it. And there's something we always do and repainting books. If you want to paint a happy book you really have to be happy, even if it's for a few minutes because somehow it comes from your emotions into your pencil into your paintbrush and onto the piece of paper you can't fake happiness so, or you can't fake being feisty or all this kind of things so you have to get that mood going. And that's one of the things I think I love the most about creating books is that you can always go back to your childhood. I always go back to my childhood so you know, and people tell me I never grow up that's fine with me because who needs to grow up really if you can stay young stay young. So, you know, and I think I use the books and the stories and talking to children and teachers and parents a lot just to, to try and gather these thoughts, and make sure that everything I understand about young people comes out in drawings like this. So, and I can, I kind of found a way to draw little boys and girls quite, quite quickly, and quite in quite a sweet fun way I guess, but also I'm getting used to drawing animals in the same way because I don't normally draw animals I always all my story, most of my stories are about people. So, you know, I think there are enough people that that that make books about about animals so, you know, I, and I admire that I think it's a great thing I just, I just prefer. What art tools do you use or what media do you use. I use acrylic paint on paper, and initially I start with, you know, sketches. So, here's something I'm working on at the moment and when I nowadays when I have a new book. I buy myself a very in a very cheap sort of sketchbook, and I start to draw everything that I want to put into the book as my thoughts are going, and I make sketches so I do things like, let's see, let me find a sketch. So, all my notes and sketches come up. And I'm sort of constantly drawing and sketching and thinking. This is how I'm thinking all the time. And then when when I start to when I find characters, I start to add a bit of color. So there you go. Nice. And, and as I get more and more confident about the characters, I kind of do more sketches and and start to make more color so that's much more of a finished one as you can see there. And, and then eventually, I will take I'll do like half the book. When I get to the middle where the staples are, I'll start to think about making a storyboard, which is basically me doing little windows, I'll just do one little window. I'll do like that with with two pages on them. And then I start this is page one and two and then I keep going and then I start to make the story happen in in pictures and I put notes underneath. So I'll often use, you know, I'll often sort of write with my little fountain pen. And, and this document this this becomes this becomes the the manual, you know, this becomes the kind of reminder of how to make the story happen. And here's here's another one that I'm doing as well. And this one is for a magazine and here in the UK called scoop magazine, and I kind of illustrate for them a comic strip, every with every issue and they're trying to tell the story of somebody, basically, at the moment I'm illustrating the story of Henry relax Oh nice. Oh my goodness Wow. I tried to, you know, so this is me making the notes and deciding what to do. And in this case, I actually paint it onto onto an iPad because it's just a bit quicker. It's a bit interesting you bring that up because one of the questions that came up, or do you prefer digital or analog tools for your art. I prefer analog tools. I just think they give you a better sense of the connection between your brain and the story. And I think when you're painting or drawing and you can, you can actually hear the sound of the pen that the pencil makes on the paper. These things help you to stay focused. And I think when you're when you're using, you know, an iPad or or any kind of tablet or any kind of computer. What you miss is that are those little. They call them ambient sounds and ambient feelings that are that that you would have in a traditional way. They don't, they don't smell paper does have a smell. All these things keep you focused I think so for now, I think I prefer. I prefer using paper and card and board and paint. And I don't mind get it's quite nice to get your hands a little bit dirty as well and to make a mess, because, again, it just keeps you in that in in that zone. And I find when you're working on a tablet or or a computer, you, you always have to worry that you don't spill anything on there or you can't do this or you can't do that. And so you worried about it and also the pictures that you have to construct on a tablet are constructed in a very different way you can't just draw and paint and go for it. You've got to be thinking layers colors. You've got to think ahead all the time. And sometimes that can hold back your, your creativity just a little bit. Although, having said that I must say sorry. Last thing, when I see some of the people that work on in a digital way, I'm so impressed because it's amazing. Obviously, eventually, you can work around this problem. Sure. Well, we'll just piggybacking on that. The layering and the construction let's let's go look at that last we have one last slide to look at. Yeah, so going from the non color to the color. You're finishing up with here how do you decide which colors you're going to use. Um, I, I use the sketchbooks to decide that, you know, so for instance, you know, like, I'll go back to this kind of thing. This is where I'm working out not only what the characters look like but I'm also trying to find a feeling for what's going on in the picture. And in this one, I was, I also have a big sketchbook which I was working with and I wanted to see whether or not she should have, you know, a blue uniform or an orange uniform. And when I did this, I was like, well, I like the way they look and everything, but I felt that maybe the whole thing was a little too cold, because it's blues and greens and everything like that. So I at that point, it made it clear to me that a really striking cover to happen. She should be orange and that should be really dark behind so there was no subtlety here you have to really go like really really really you know contrasting colors that that complement each other that are of the same kind of strength, but they're not but they're not cold. There's all it's all about warmth that I was trying to do. Absolutely. Yeah. I really love about all the lines or I can't. I can't decide which one I like more the the not color one or the color one because they both convey love and warmth and I, I really like them both for their own in their own ways. Yeah, yeah. That's something that's just so amazing about your work, Ken. Thank you and I'm always trying to, I'm always trying to capture those little moments because my first books were about those moments I would I would watch parents and toddlers or babies. And I would see how they are with each other. And I wasn't worried about capturing the scene I was worried about how do you capture that feeling when the baby looks up for complete love at their mom with the dad. And you get that likewise from the grown up, but it's different because you know they show love in different ways and and I was, I spent a lot of time just sort of observing and drawing and sketching. And I realized that that plus color could could do that, you know. So I tried I tried to do that that's always my my goal is always to capture the little moments between people because I think that that's where stories are made. And then we talked about the baby goes beep very briefly before we started and how it's a go to book for children's librarians to use in their story times that baby is so relatable, and so lovely and you just want to, you just want to squish his little face I mean he's just beautiful. That totally comes through. It's really great because I love babies. I can tell. I love babies, and I kind of I just is that you know it's it's it's it's that experience for for people the first time they meet a new baby and the smell of a baby and the chubby cheeks as you just said or the chubby thighs and everyone. And I just thought, you see, I'm talking about their experience of the baby I'm not necessarily talking about the baby the baby will grow itself almost, if you can get the reaction from the other person. This is how this is how this is how I tried to work. And then recently I've tried to use that to capture bigger issues like for instance, you know, stem and gender issues, and I've tried to see if I can increase the range of this style of working so that it, it could in a very in a very everyday natural way capture these discussions and and arguments and I must say it's given me almost a second lease of professional life. It's very exciting. That is exciting. We have a question from Amy. Because you put a dog like Toby in the story does your daughter think the story is about her. No. I've not asked her actually so let's say I wouldn't know, but she's never said to me that story about me. And it's true to a certain degree when she was about three or four she had short hair and she looked a little bit like that. I would say it's not her. If you see what I mean, it's a very strange thing. And I keep I always think, who is this really because I think when you're when you're writing or illustrating it's always somebody there's always somebody that you're referencing to to make a character sketch, let's say, and I don't know who it is. It could be it could be, I don't know, it could be a boy, you know, as well, I'm not sure. I mean, but there is something of maybe several people that are there, but the dog is definitely one dog. That's for sure this it's just Toby because he's so mad and I keep thinking how do you make a story with a crazy dog like this and try to keep it under control the story itself will just go out of control Oh, the dog will make it go out of control that's just the dog's nature right. Exactly. Exactly. I have a question for you Ken. What does it mean to you to be part of this BIPOC series. I'm extremely honored. I think when Pauline when you when you first got in touch with me and sort of explain, you know, how it got to this. I was I was I really am extremely honored. And I'm also really happy that within the series there's such a wide range of writers illustrators and creators it's sort of nice to be in that in that group of people. I think, I think somehow. Most people who who are sort of by by pocket you say yeah. Our, how can I say, we just want to be the one everyone to read the story because it's a good story. Exactly. This other stuff is secondary or even tertiary to that, you know, so for me, you know, and I started my career without people knowing who I was because there was no pictures of me for for a few years. And then I noticed what happened when people were putting the name to the face and it was quite interesting. So, so for me to say well you know this is now 30, almost 30 years later, gosh, 30 years. Almost 30 years later to be involved in a group of represented in this way is really on is a fantastic on and I'm really grateful. Thank you. We're just so thrilled that you said yes. Oh wow Ken, this has been so incredible. Thank you. Do you have any words of farewell for our community. Yes, I do. I want to say, you know, thank you for listening. I hope you learned or heard a few things that you hadn't heard before. And you know if you're thinking of putting books and ideas together. I would say, you know, sometimes they happen just like that. And that's not the end of it that's just the beginning you have to be able to keep going work it work, work the problem from all the angles before you, you know and just don't take no for an answer. But listen to what the comments are saying just in case you missed something so besides that I want to say thank you very much. And I hope you guys have a fantastic San Francisco afternoon. Thank you so much. What a brilliant time we've had with Ken Wilson max. Thank you so so much for visiting us all the way from London y'all all the way from London. We're all around here at SFPL we go out and get folks. Thank you so much for being here this was just, just so amazing and special thank you so much. All right. And all of you out there. Thank you for joining us today as we continue to spotlight and celebrate BIPOC authors and illustrators. Please join us again next week, when we'll be hosting and bring to wreak as part of the nature boost series on July 14, and meet our featured artist for summer stride summer stride stuff right here. You all have been doing all summer right you've been reading Kailani Juanita in conversation with San Francisco's own Lisa Brown on July 16. Check on SFPL.org for event details. That's all folks that's all today we're expecting a nice weekend here in San Francisco it should finally be warm. We can actually maybe call it summer. Oh my goodness. Take care and we look forward to seeing you soon either online or at one of our open branches the libraries are slowly but surely opening up. Thank you again thanks for joining us this afternoon, and have a pleasant rest of your day. Bye.