 Welcome everybody to the inaugural episode of the punk rocker moon stomper podcast. I'm Amy Shira Tidal. Some of you may know me from my own YouTube series, Vintage Space, and my blog, but some of you probably don't. And joining me, as will always be the case, is Jason McClellan. Introduce yourself. I'm Jason McClellan, and I will be joining you each episode. Yeah, this is our little, all the things that we have in common that we really like seem to be things that not a lot of people also like, and they weirdly go together for us, so we thought we'd hang out, talk about punk, ska, space, pets, and beer, and share it with you guys. And perhaps some other alcohol too, we'll see, but yeah, they nicely go together for us. So why not have a podcast about it? Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, because alcohol is such a big part of this podcast. Let's go ahead and start, Amy, by talking about what we're drinking today. I know it might be cheesy, but had to go with something that is perfect for me and perfect for a space-related podcast. I'm drinking a Harpoon UFO, so it's the best I could come up with last minute, a Harpoon UFO. Which is a good beer. I ended up in Boston a few months ago, and you, I believe, either texted me or left a comment on Instagram that I should have a Harpoon UFO, and the bar at my hotel happened to have it, and it is a delicious beer. So I first was introduced to it when I lived in New York, and they don't have, Harpoon doesn't distribute on the West Coast or out West, there are very few states they're actually in. If you're in Florida, I think, or New York, or Boston, you're pretty safe. But other than that, their distribution is pretty limited. And I'm in Phoenix right now, why do I have Harpoon UFO? Well, they did this sort of test distribution, I guess, at Select Total Wines. And so Total Wine right now in Tempe has cases and cases of it, and they've had it for a couple months. And the last time I was in there, they had a sign that said, last chance to have Harpoon UFO. So of course I grabbed it, but I do love the beer. They have a lot of different varieties, too. And I think when I was in New York and first found UFO, they only had like three different flavors. One was a raspberry, one was their regular, and one was maybe they had launched their pumpkin at that time, too. But pretty damn good beer. It is a good beer. And isn't there another, isn't there a tap room in Tempe that has some of the best beer selections in the city? Well, I guess it's pretty universal now. Every city seems to have, you know, craft beer explosions. So they have all these places that love to have the taps full of local beers. There's so many local breweries. I was just at a brand new brewery last weekend that it's not brand new. It's new to me. I haven't been to it yet, but it's called Wilderness Brewing in, I think technically it's Gilbert, Arizona. They brew a bunch. I don't remember the number, but a bunch of their own beers. So many that my wife and I went and we got two samplers. And I think their samplers had maybe five, maybe six each. And we still hadn't gone through all of their beers. And they do a lot of interesting ones, too. I'm a big fan of Sours, and they actually had a couple Sours. So it was fun. But really good beer. I've heard from a lot of people that that's the place to go if you like craft beer. So I tried it out. It was not disappointed. Nice. Nice. What are you drinking? Tops. Tops. You're thinking of tops. That's the one I was thinking of. Because, yeah, I did used to live in South Tempe, which was not the greatest place to live. But I am drinking the Stone Mocha IPA. I really like Stone, and I know that their stuff is always delicious. And the idea of an Mocha IPA with, yeah, a style defining double IPA with cocoa and coffee. I'm just like, this sounds weird, because when you think of cocoa and coffee, you think of a heavy stout. Which is nice and delicious and warming, especially in winter, although winter is not a real thing in Los Angeles. It still can go outside during the day without a sweater, right? So don't really need the coziness of a stout. But this is surprisingly light for something that has a Mocha coffee after taste. Interesting. It's like a coffee, because the Stone delicious IPA is one of my go-tos, because it's everywhere in LA. And it's so good. It is really like kind of smackity in the face with hops, but not that bad. This is super easy to drink, like dangerously easy to drink, but delicious. It's just really smooth and kind of has a bit of a chocolatiness to it, but it's not overwhelming, which I like. That sounds amazing. Yeah. There's a little wine store across the street from my apartment that always has just one long fridge with interesting rotating selections of craft beers and odd things, and they get a certain number and then they don't order it again, so it's sort of like, you never know what they're going to have, so I just go in and I just, yeah, oh, this looks kind of neat. Okay, if I like it, I have to buy all of it while they have it, because I don't know where else to get weird beers around here that's, you know, across the street. It's so convenient. Weird beers. Weird beers. I do like some weird beers. That's awesome. I like it. It's not always a win, but... You can't find the good ones unless you're adventurous, so... Exactly, yeah. Home brews are the weird beers that you don't necessarily want to experiment with, but yeah. Sometimes I will admit to buying beers based on a good label, like the Elysian Space Dust. I fall for that. Yeah. Elysian Space Dust. Have you tried that one? I have not, but I've been lured by that label. Right. Right. Because you're not an IPA fan. Right. It's delicious, and I 100% was like, hmm, Space Dust. I like space, and there's dust, so why not? And it was a good choice. There's a brewery here, and I forget who it is. There's so many here now, but one of the local breweries in the Phoenix area has one now, and I think it's called something like Moon Juice, or something Moon-related, and the art on it is like a Moon Buggy and something. Nice. I haven't tried it yet, but yeah, those things call out to me for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Have you tried, I know we're dwelling on beer for a bit here, but have you tried, there's no rules, Nincassi's Ground Control? No, no I haven't. So, hilariously, my first ever sponsor on my YouTube channel was Nincassi, because they wanted someone who could talk about the space element of this beer. So, the gimmick of, I mean, not really a gimmick, but it was brewed with yeast that was launched into space. It was 75 miles, I think, which is super neat, and they had to, you know, they had a failed launch, but the whole brewery team went out to watch the Suburbal Rocket go up. So, I did five episodes about Suburbal Rocket's early experiments of living grains and living things in space, and I forget what else, but they send me a bottle every year as thank you for promoting their product and bringing it to the audience. It's so good. It's like a nice, it's a stout that's not super heavy, and it's just like I still have my bottle from this year, because it's one of those ones. I think it's like $40 for like one of the 1.6 pint big bottles. It's not a cheap one that you just like buy willy-nilly, so I always wait and drink mine for like something exciting that happens. There's a brewery that I keep telling myself I'm going to go see next time I'm in San Diego, and that's Intergalactic Brewing, again, because of the name, I'm already in love with it. I've never even heard of that one, but now I know. It's really small, but yeah, they're in San Diego, and I found out about them a little more than a year ago, and I still haven't been, but they're pretty geeky. They've got geeky names on all their beers, but how could you not like a brewery called Intergalactic Brewing? You would expect a company called Intergalactic Brewing to have geeky names for their beers. I mean, that would have to be part of the thing. You don't call your brewery Intergalactic if you're not just a little bit of a space nerd. If you don't, then what's the point? Yeah, I agree. Yeah, because then you're just like jumping on the space's cool bandwagon, which leads me to ask, has that ever been a bandwagon? I was just going to say, is that a bandwagon? I think it was a bandwagon in like 1962, but that's all I can think of in terms of, yeah, the only thing I can think of with the space bandwagon is the girls at the Cape in Florida trying to sleep with all the mercury astronauts. Yeah. Maybe they'll be a new bandwagon sometime. It'll be cool again. I guess that does happen with some things like I was in Pasadena for the Curiosity River landing on Mars in 2012, and there was a landing party the night before the landing because landing was at midnight, so they couldn't have a party start at 2 a.m., not to mention the engineers had to work. And there were all these kids dressed up like rovers that are like, we're landing on Mars for the first time ever. I'm like, no, we're not. How do you, none of you know the history of Mars exploration, but you're dressed like a rover. So it's that like, yeah, there's a bit of space bandwagon happening that night. It was pretty, it was pretty weird. It was a weird night anyways, but popularity comes and goes and, you know, ska music is the perfect example of that for sure. Yeah, which that was a good segue because I was going to bring up the segue of the other brewery that I never try enough because I never seem to find it is ska brewing, which I've had a couple of their beers. Well, I'll just say it now. I've had a couple of their beers and I've liked it, but it's never something that they seem to carry in bars near me or yeah, or in the liquor store near me where I can just go like pop over if I want something. It's some, yeah, it's not a brewery that I see a lot of but everything I've had of theirs I like, but I also inherently like it because it's ska brewing. Yeah, that's interesting to hear that because my experience has been with their distribution. I see it everywhere. So in multiple states too. Oh yeah, for sure. They I think one of their their big reps lives in Phoenix and they do a lot of sponsoring of ska events here. They have a big, big president in Phoenix for sure, but Colorado obviously that's where they're based. But even in Idaho and weird places too, I've seen it. So which strikes me as odd that Idaho the other thing that I find weird about beer just in Jen and liquor in general in the States being from Canada is the way beer, liquor, wine distribution works. Not just in the form of like of like breweries being able to distribute out of state or not and like all like I know a little bit about how that works just from friends who work in these industries. But when I lived in North Carolina, it was super weird that you could get certain beers in the grocery store and wine but liquor you had to get at the liquor store next door and then there was a separate beer store for anything above like a 4.5 ABV just like who make and these laws are all by county because I lived in Maryland last summer for the New Horizons mission and depending on where I drove from the lab, it would be like you'd have to go to a separate beer store or you could go to the grocery store. Just like I don't understand how any of this works. It's so confusing and you know, if you don't do a lot of traveling, I guess you're never exposed to that. I remember, you know, the first few times I experienced that I was all, oh, so when you go different places, it's a legitimate thing that I really need to pay attention to find out where I can get alcohol because it's not as easy like yes, there's a grocery store right there. It doesn't mean you're going to be able to get what you want. Yeah, I love the past couple years in Idaho and that was totally a thing that I wasn't prepared to deal with. You know, they have there you can get beer and wine in the grocery store, but alcohol you've got to go to a liquor store. Yeah. And they and those states at least in my experience are the ones that never have really fun, weird alcohols like I bought my last whiskey purchase was this little brewery in San Francisco that does whiskey in the style and in the manner of craft beer. And I don't even know what that means, but it just sounds so San Francisco. I had to try it and it's it was the only bottle that wasn't like $400 and yay big. But yeah, it was just sort of like you would never be able to find that in a liquor store in a state like North Carolina, where all I could ever find was your stock, you know, from your low end Jack Daniels to your blue label to whatever else gets more expensive than that. So I have never tried. I have endless fun, you know, going to places like Bevmo and Total Wine just like spending an hour walking up and down each aisle looking at all the weird beers they have all the weird whiskies things that you've never heard of but look fascinating have really fun labels. That's great, but even places that have alcohol in the grocery store, you know, our Kroger store here in Phoenix is fries. So you go to fries. They depending on which fries you go to have an incredible liquor section and you walk and see all sorts of weird things there and they'll even carry local things, you know, things that are brewed and distilled locally and have little signs so you can see the local brews. That's that's really cool. Really fun. That's something that I definitely miss out on especially when I'm going places with these weird laws because that's part of my great fun and traveling is trying out the local alcohol scene and the local beers. Yeah, I know as bad as it sounds, that's also a thing that I do when I go to a bar. I'm just like, I'm not going to get a California IPA when I'm on the East Coast like I'm going to see what's local that I can't readily get what's like the weirdest, most unique thing that you have on tap. Okay, I'll take one of those. Yeah, why not? It's interesting. It's more fun to see what what the locals drink and how the locals live. I'm with you and I guess I'll throw this out there disclaimer. We're not alcoholics. We just are alcohol enthusiasts. We're alcohol enthusiasts. We're not alcoholics. We're just enthusiasts. I like that. I like that. People have described me as a science enthusiast as well. So I will just take enthusiast as the blanket term. Yeah, just use that as your official title now. Just enthusiast. It covers everything. Enthusiast. Yep. Yeah, we yeah, that is a good disclaimer to make. Well, back to Scott Brewing for a second. Yeah. I have been really impressed with their beer and I love their story too. Just these people who were Scott enthusiasts, you know, and took their love for Scott and love for beer and blended it together. And you know, that's how breweries started people taking their love and passion and in actually realizing it doesn't always work out so well. But Scott's had great success and they've done collaborations with different bands. They do a big annual party. I haven't been to with their big anniversary celebration and they'll have bands out and have a concert at I think they're in Durango, aren't they? I don't remember where in Colorado. But Durango odd, but okay. It's a beer location as it's pretty much everywhere in Colorado. But yeah. Yeah, I think. Yeah, I don't know much about Colorado to be totally honest. I have skied there and I've been to a couple conferences there and walking through downtown Boulder was the first time I'm seeing us outside city hall smoking joints. It's just like you guys took it was like right after it was legalized. I was like, well, you guys took that and ran with it. Good on you. It was just like this weird first of my ever saw an oxygen bar as well because what that was? That was an odd one. It was like coffee shop, cafe, fancy restaurant, oxygen bar, regular bar like flavored oxygen. That's the thing. That's the thing that people want to pay for. I've never tried this. I laugh at it, but apparently the one thing that that could potentially be good for and this is a good science thing, but it's supposed to be good for hangovers. That I have actually heard. EMTs will do that that with their hungover and they have to work that they'll just put themselves on pure oxygen for 10 or 15 minutes and it helps their body process everything that it needs to process and then they can they're fine in like half an hour. I see those things in the resort in Vegas and you know, I always I always think for half a second. Well, maybe. No, no, I'm not doing that now. Yeah, there's there's a limit to like the odd stuff that I'm willing to spend my money on. And when I look at like, I don't know, I just can't with oxygen bar. I'm just like, I don't think this is going to be a thing that I should spend. It's like 40 bucks to for like a prayer, like a break. Like, I don't know. What do you call it? It's not like a tasting like a smelling like, I don't know. Yeah. And sniffing sounds bad. So that does sound very bad. Yeah. Well, should we take the the segue that we've hit on like four times now of ska brewing to go into our individual reasons of why we kind of fell in love with punk and ska as a genre? Because I think the reasons of falling in love with alcohol is pretty universal is you drink and it's kind of fun and then you develop a palette for it. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I got I got nothing. Yeah. We don't need a reason to explain our love for alcohol. Yeah. Beyond that, I mean, again, not alcoholics, just enthusiasts, but yeah, yeah, beer. I've always I went out for drinks with some girls from a kickbox in class yesterday and they're all wine and I'm just like, I can't never been like that into wine. It's like for some somehow I developed like a beer palette where that's my go to everyone has their things. So I can certainly appreciate wine and, you know, happy to drink it when it's available. I'm not going to turn it away. Unless it's a chardonnay. Chardonnays are pretty disgusting in my opinion, but buttery chardonnays. I can I'm not like I can't tell with beer I can tell like specific like profiles and little intricacies in that just because I guess I drink more of it. So I'm more aware of it. But with wine, all I can say is like, this is a good wine or I don't like this one. Like that's as far as you know when it comes down to it. That's all you really need to be able to determine. Like, yeah, is this good to me or is it bad to me? Am I going to drink it or not? Yeah. And there's few wines that I'm ever like, yeah. So yeah, I'm pretty much the same way. You know, I'm happy to drink wine. But if I have my choice, I'm going with something else. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you on that. All right. So I guess go ahead and I'll let you go first. I guess we don't need to separate scone punk. We'll just kind of our music music adventure independently. So how did you get into the punk and or ska genre? Which is funny because I actually have two very distinct moments where I fell in love with both punk and Scott. Like, yeah. I have one of each very weirdly. Yeah, I feel I feel like I mean, this is like the trip down memory lane story where it's like I was an awkward nerdy kid surprise for what I do for a living now. You still still very much the awkward nerdy kid. But like my parents are older. So I was raised on like early Beatles and Buddy Holly and like 50s, early 60s. And I still love that. Like Buddy Holly is still one of my favorites. But yeah, it was like growing up. There's not my family. My family is so quiet. It's very weird. Like in my parents' house, I'll go home and I'll be working and I'll like to, you know, take the headphones off and it's just silent. Like is anybody here? And like everyone's home. It's just like no one does anything with any noise. So there's never like music growing up in my house. But my mom gave me. I'm going to tell the long version of this story now because a minute. My mom gave me Sergeant Pepper's from Beatles for my ninth or tenth birthday. And like it was the first time I'd ever heard an electric guitar like that. And it just like changed my life because I was like very much like a kid in the 60s. I was raised on this like happy American apple pie. And then I started exploring other things that sort of had like a harder sound which took me a while because that was my starting point. But I think it was my friend Sam gave me a CD. He was like the cool friend I had. I've known him since we were six months old. So he was the one that was like here try this band. And like my parents are always so mad because he would give me things that were loud. But he I think it was my 15th birthday. He gave me a CD called Amy's Punk Mix and had a little stick figure of me with my nose ring stick figure of him with his glasses and stick figure of a little punk with a mohawk. And that like that was just how I started finding bands because like he put Jimmy World on there and the Atari's and Pennywise and like all these other things. And I can't even remember what it was there. And then it was like, you know, you start buying. It's like, oh, I like that band. Well, oh, they're on this compilation. I'll buy that. It's like, oh, I like that. So let me buy that. And they just sort of like, you know, in the late 90s early 2000s you buy CDs because we're old. Yeah. So it was just like, I started sort of compiling it together. And then it was sort of as I got into teenage years like I was awkward and not smart enough to be with the smart kids in high school and not cool enough to be with cool kids and like not popular enough to be with popular kids. So it's just kind of like there. And then it was actually it was like through through kind of like exploring punk music and going to shows that I found that sense of community that I just was lacking in all the things. You know, like when you're in high school and you just like don't have a group to stay with. It was just sort of like, this is weird. You know that feeling? So it ended up being like going to shows where like I would just I was 15. What did I care? I would jump up in the pit. I felt like I was immortal because when you're 15 you don't believe you can be physically harmed. That's right. But it was always and maybe it's because Canada is so nice. But like every time I got into a mosh pit someone would throw an arm around me and make sure that I wouldn't die. And it was like, nobody cared that I was like slightly overweight and super awkward and like refused to wear women's jeans because yeah, I was just always in like baggy everything. And it's like, I feel like I'm at home here. So yeah, that was like sort of when I fell in love with punk was sort of exploring more of like the whole scene and the music has always just been something that was like, I don't know. I can't even explain like why that sort of spoke to me, I guess. But yeah, it was just kind of falling in love with like that community. And then SCOB came second to that. I saw same friend Sam who made me that that mix CD. He and I went to see Bad Religion and less than Jake was opening. And I didn't really know I'd listen to a bit of less than Jake, but not much. And then I just remember like standing I'm 4 for 11, right? I wasn't any taller in high school. I'm standing there and it's like throng of people. And it was right after Hello Rockview had come out and like as soon as they started, it was just like the entire room just like washed forward. And like, I don't think my feet hit the ground for like 15 minutes. And it was just like insane. I was like, this energy is infectious and I always want to be here. And then that was when I was like, oh my God, it's just horns and you can't not dance when there's horns involved. And that was when it was just like, this is just too fun and too happy and like so much more interesting than like, I can't even think of what the competing like pop stuff was and like the year 2001 like what was even popular. I don't know Backstreet Boys. Was that a thing happening at that time? I guess. Yeah, it's just like this was so much more fun and more interesting and we had like just instantly like made you a part of something else. That's a fantastic story. Yeah, I like it. That's my story and I'm actually it's fine. I'm seeing Pennywise tonight. So I'm coming full circle on that today. And which is a Pennywise song. That's awesome. Like not even a huge huge Pennywise fan, but like because that was one of the first shows that I saw that I was just like, this is a community and like could jump in and knew that I was going to be taken care of by people who were just like, you're here and that's what matters. It's awesome. It doesn't matter who you are. It's always been like the most inclusive like love and it's just like, yeah, I like that. Yeah. And I don't know. I mean, I think it's the scene seems to have morphed slightly over the years because I remember the the same feeling, you know, and and seeing pits be the same scene that you described, you know, you get knocked down and people would help each other up and, you know, I mean, they would certainly not shy about, you know, slamming the shit out of you, but at the same time, it was a community and that's just, you know, what you were doing and you're all doing it together and and if somebody got out of hand, people would kind of straighten them out and you know, but I think that's that's I don't see that as much anymore. But that makes me sound like an old, crabby old man like back in my day. I still see it. I mean, I don't I don't go in pits anymore because frankly, my face is like 80% of my job and I just don't want to get knocked to the floor stepped on out of the black eye. But I will get like right up to the front and I will get like close and up to the pit to be like shoving people back in and it's just like it looks really violent from the outside, but I just I'm so aware of it now for some reason probably because I'm not in it that like everybody and there has like a stupid grin plastered on their face because they're having so much fun and it's just like I just love the energy at those shows because it's like nobody cares who you are and your life it's like you're there and you're in it and you love it and therefore we want you to be having fun with us. Yeah. Like it's just such it's the nicest environment and it's weird, aggressive way. When don't know what year it was when I I can sort of remember the first time hearing a ska music and I want to say it was Bucko 9 but you know, I was really really weird and awkward and you know, like like all of us just trying to figure myself out pretty high school and and right into the freshman year high school didn't really have a lot of musical experience to that point because coming from a hyper religious family background really the only music that I was familiar with was Jesus music where did you grow up? I don't know that now that I think of it so I grew up in very very far west side of Phoenix out in a little little area called Buckeye which is not so small anymore but back back then there was absolutely nothing and my family move there when I was like two years old and I think we had to drive like to West Phoenix for groceries because there was no grocery store. So we have to like pack the cooler with ice you know back in the day of living in the wild Wild West. Yeah, good time. So okay, sorry to go on. No. So I remember when I got my I don't know if it was when I got my first job or when it was when I had some some cash for some reason and I started buying CDs of my own because I had no idea what I was doing I was just exploring and I would go to the mall and go to the the record stores that used to exist in malls and look for cool artwork really and you know just try to guess what kind of music it was you know I'd listen to the radio and remember certain songs I'd heard and pick out things that way but I had accumulated accumulated like a collection of ten or so completely weird CDs that didn't go together you know ranging from like Blues Traveler and Mariah Carey and I don't know just weird shit. Yeah. But and my best friend I started spending more time with him because you know going to high school and I was going to high school out of district so doing a lot of carpooling and things and started listening to more music that was outside from my house and you know that's really where I was introduced to it I think I heard it and it was kind of unlike anything I'd ever heard before and it was really cool and but his musical collection is really what got me started to starting to explore the other music that was like that you know he in his heavy rotation at the time was like like I said Bucko nine but also social distortion and even kind of weird shit like the doors and stuff that really started me looking into you know other types of music and classic rock and things like that too that kind of is related but I remember when we went to our first show together it wasn't his first show he he as older brother always went to concerts and I would hear the stories afterwards and I was really jealous so one night I told my parents well I guess I actually did but I spent the night at his house but doing so as we could go to a concert and you know we were far west side kids and we we had to travel the vast distance to Tempe to go to a show and the show was the specials and the cherry pop and daddies and that's a great show and it was a small show too it's a small outdoor venue in Phoenix maybe 300 people there so that was really cool and that started my love affair with the cherry pop and daddies and have since become friends friends with those guys but that started me on my journey of just sneaking out and going to shows any chance I could and then I don't know this seems to be a more common road than I would think but I took my love for music and just going to shows all the time and then decided how can I be involved in this well I'm not really a musician I could learn but I'm not going to learn so maybe I'll approach things from the business side so I'll start a record label so started a record label you know which entailed talking to local bands and saying hey do you want me to put out a record for you and I don't know why anybody would listen to me because I was just a kid and I had no money like who the hell am I but yeah sure so you know I put out I put out a few CDs put out an actual seven inch vinyl record that was a fun experience but then went from there and decided oh hey I like this I'm dealing with all these bands why don't I produce concerts sure why not so instead of taking baby steps and maybe working with some of these local bands that I'd worked with what did I do I said hey I'm going to book the toasters so I somehow got the so convinced the toasters that like hey I'm some asshole kid from Phoenix I want to put on your next show so did that it was kind of a nightmare disaster but you know they I don't think saw it as a disaster and they're still friends and but you pulled it off is the important part yeah apparently pulled it off and then of course going with the other idiot mistakes or steps in life and that progression decided well I'm I'm doing doing concerts why don't I have my own right my own a concert venue so open to concert venue and did that for a while so yeah I'm essentially retired from the music industry now but I had to get my foot into a little bit of all of it and really the greatest takeaway I mean great experiences wouldn't change it for the world but you know building those relationships with the bands over the years just it's price looks price looks experiences yeah I love that you just jumped in and decided to start putting on shows it's like sure I can do this why not well the thing I guess that really prompted that was I was tired of spending money to go to shows and like seeing one band I liked and sitting through like four or five other bands that I didn't know or didn't care to see so well why don't I just handpicked the bands I want to see but sometimes that's a way to find yeah but sometimes that's a way to find bands that you would never be exposed that is absolutely right I absolutely right my most recent experience with that was I I mean I've ended up at some weird places I ended up at a Snoop Dogg show once that was a weird story but I ended up seeing this band at a reggae festival like a ska reggae festival called Pantan Rococo which is like a Mexican ska band and they kind of fuse ska with salsa and I don't speak much Spanish like I can tell you what's in my backpack and tell you that Beto Chavez as muy guapo like that's my high school Spanish but this band is just I don't know 15 people like it's huge and it's awesome to the point where I was like I'd go see them again and I've seen them like three times because they play L.A. a lot it's just like this was the weirdest thing that like I did not go to see this band but they were just at this festival and it was so much fun and I was like okay this is fun I'm glad I experienced this very weird thing that I would never have gone to normally the Latin ska scene is so huge and it's an experience for sure seeing I've seen some incredible bands you know just like you described 15 people whole Latin percussion section it's rad I really really like them and it makes me it makes me really want to understand a little bit more of what's going on politically in Mexico right now because again not speaking Spanish I just see that there's the figureheads being like you know just like put up on the display behind the band and I'm just like what I wish I knew what you are rebelling against right now because you're really passionate about it everyone in this room I don't know what's going on just random random side note here I saw recently that there was this gigantic ska fest in Mexico City that was put on by Pepsi I don't know why it's so fine to me that Pepsi would put on a ska fest but like maybe it's that popular in Mexico yeah I don't know weird very weird I don't know who knows but yeah it's kind of interesting living in LA to have a lot of people that have traveled up I actually met two girls at I saw some 41 a couple weeks ago which is like total nostalgia right being from Toronto and like I think the first time I saw them play was that much on demand which was like you go down onto the street and you look in through the window and then they play it through the speaker system outside it was not yeah it was like super super local and small before they like exploded and then we're opening for Blinkway to a year later but I met two girls from Mexico at a show two weeks ago they drove up from Mexico City just to see them in Riverside it was just like that's commitment good on you girls like that was awesome yeah that's hardcore wow yeah it was a good show too it had been yeah many many years since I skipped prom to see them it's a good choice yeah it was it was that no it was an epic show it was Jimmy World some 41 Green Day and Blinkway to that's pretty awesome like what would you pick those four bands which is like like some of my like Jimmy World and Blinkway to like I love Jimmy World but just like not really punk but sort of somehow they ended up in that space like I don't really know how they ended up on that bill but like I don't really know where Jimmy World fits it's interesting the bands that kind of fall into certain genres you're all well it doesn't really fit musically but I guess it does because that's where they've been so yeah because I feel like I don't know if you are much of a Jimmy World fan or not but like their first album Static Prevails is like way different from anything else they did especially because it was followed by Clarity which is like super moody and amazing it's probably my favorite album of all time but like I could see how Static Prevails would end up like in more of the punk scene but then they've kind of expanded into this more like I don't know all their music is just like expansive and like atmospheric almost like it's very odd it's like very hard to place with anybody else I love that aspect of Angels and Airwaves just this big kind of grand atmospheric music yeah yeah you know some of their songs are you know sort of kind of on the punky and you know a little hint here and there of Blink 182 but yeah it's different but it's still good I like it yeah and that your Jimmy World comment reminded me that I think I mentioned a T but when I was at that Brewery last weekend oh yeah Jimmy World did a did a collaboration with them so they've got a Jimmy World beer yeah yeah I've heard about that from friends of mine in the Phoenix music scene which is so funny that I have met so many awesome people in Phoenix and in that scene in Phoenix like literally three days before I left the state you run away I did not have a chance to experience any of this when I actually lived where all of this is happening but I'm just super weird because I've since gotten to know Jimmy World um it's a shame that I didn't when they were playing small local shows in Phoenix when I lived I lived like the three miles from their studio so it works um but yeah I know it's um yeah I've heard about that beer and you said it wasn't bad yeah I liked it but you said it's an IPA and it's an IPA and you know I'm not an IPA guy mainly because I mean there's some fantastic IPAs and the more accurate I guess statement is that I don't like hops I don't like hoppy beers so the the IVUs on a beer are pretty important to me so I love when a place you know put on their menu the IVUs of the beer um but there there's some some IPAs that you know are pretty low on the bitterness scale and be quite delicious and unique and we'll say that about IPAs they they're they vary a lot they vary a lot I think which is why I grab today towards them because you can figure out like one IPA it's going to taste completely different from another where it's for me like wheat beers kind of all have a very similar profile sure yeah we're back on beer somehow that's going to happen a lot especially because we're drinking especially as we're drinking doing this yeah that's right yeah cheers to that nope you got it well we've covered music briefly and yeah we'll talk about it much more because that's what this whole podcast is about we don't need to do the entire series of the podcast in one episode but I guess let's move on to space because I think you like space right I do kind of like space I feel like that the natural lead into that is that you're drinking a UFO beer which is very fitting for you we go and you know I will mention that our mutual friend Ryan Sprague author and playwright in New York City did me a huge solid and I mentioned that I can't get Harpoon UFO and Phoenix typically yeah a few years ago I was you know for about five years I was a organizer and technical producer of the largest UFO conference in the world and Ryan flew in to help on my A.V. team and he brought with him cross-country in his suitcase a six-pack of Harpoon UFO just for me so that's awesome it was pretty awesome and much appreciated absolutely love Ryan Ryan actually it's so funny I met Ryan oh like three years ago I think and I think it was I think I put a picture up on Twitter or Instagram of I was shooting an interview in New York and he DM'd me on whichever platform was like hey you don't know me but I'm Jason's friend and I've always wanted to meet you do you want to go get a drink? and that's where I met Ryan that's awesome it was awesome we ended up like he came and like saw me off to the airport the next day and we just like hung out for so long with like that one drink turned into dinner turned into more drinks turned into like oh I'll see you off and we'll grab a drink before you leave it was just like it was the weirdest thing and so it was because no I'd met and I'd met you by that point yeah obviously but like I'd met you in like human space but yeah it was super weird that like I met Ryan and through like your UFO connections that's so funny so weird the internet is an amazing place where like all of your weird just feeds into this like web of things that happened weird definitely happens yes yeah I do kind of love the internet yes so I mean I have a love hate relationship with the internet but like that's another rant oh we'll read plenty about that oh yeah being a female creator online is awesome sauce speaking of UFOs I feel like you need to start off with your space thing because we're talking about UFOs so like you go from UFO beer to UFO alright so I should do this on camera UFO space for the for the like non-video podcast version that we're doing yes we'll have to put in some I don't know listening assistive descriptions in the audio version only yes he moves her hands in a star-like fashion I do the one podcast that I listen to I am been increasingly aware of how they scribe it's like these two drive time comedians in Melbourne Australia of all places but they're amazing and they do such a great job of describing what they're doing because they do a lot of live podcasting and live broadcasting it's just like they did their most recent thing was like remember when you were a kid and you'd like run on a carpet and then slide down a tile hallway oh yeah they did they did an an Australian championship of sliders interesting where they like someone from each territory and had them slide and like you wouldn't think that that would make for good radio but it made for excellent radio for the way that they describe what was happening so I'm like as I realize that I'm venturing into podcast world I'm so aware of how people describe things that are happening visually when you don't have that medium to work with so I move my hands in a star-like manner think about I don't know if you have listened to much Howard Stern but Howard Stern has always been radio he's had video stuff but he's a radio radio show and a lot of his stuff is guest coming in and doing things and you know part of the great fun is just them describing what's happening and laughing about it and making comments about it but you don't actually see it they do a really good job so yeah yeah all right well I guess I'll talk about space here yeah for sure so I mean I fell in love with space pretty pretty early I don't remember exactly when but I know in my early teen years sci-fi was pretty important to me you know watch the original Star Wars trilogy over and over and over and I had younger brothers too and that was their favorite thing to watch too so it seemed to always be on TV and well didn't we just watch this but right Star Trek next generation was very important to me had to watch Star Trek next generation and I think that annoyed other people in my house but I was kind of religious about it so Star Trek played a played a really big role in developing my curiosity at that time living in the middle of absolute nowhere in the Sonoran Desert really the only thing I had for entertainment that was available to me and it's something that gave me freedom to got me out of the house was just kind of going in the desert and going camping with friends so it seemed that certain certain period of time it seemed I was going camping every single weekend but a lot of those times you know Arizona nice and hot just sleep out with a sleeping bag no tent just staring up with the sky and great view of of the stars you can see the Milky Way absolutely amazing kind of fell in love with the sky just staring up and looking at constellations and seeing different things move through the sky you could see satellites and things so clearly it was kind of amazing and I miss that of it but you know every once in a while I'd see things that were weird things that you know I couldn't explain things I had no idea what they could be so that started my mind racing and started kind of open the door for that that curiosity and my exploring the mysteries that are in our world and out of our world then I don't remember at what point in my career but this is several years ago this is probably seven years ago now I was presented with a unique opportunity by my employer at the time I was doing internet marketing for one of his companies and he approached me and let me know that he was a big UFO guy I loved UFOs always been interested in UFOs and wanted to start a separate company all about UFOs and extraterrestrial life and I don't know I guess some people or most people would kind of laugh at that and go okay this guy's crazy but my response was that's fascinating tell me more so you know kept the conversation going he knew what what my skills were in my background in video production and writing and things I could bring to the table because he wanted to start all sorts of different channels with this company wanted to do a magazine he wanted to do a website he wanted to do TV so there was a lot a lot of ideas going and all of this stuff was very exciting to me so kind of pushed my way in kept egging him on and encouraging it and you know after after about a year kind of formed a company and just kind of jumped off so I transferred from one company to the other and we just jumped right in and started a print magazine like who does that but you know when you have a rich guy with money hey yes let's have fun so yeah we started a print magazine that turned into an internationally distributed print magazine all about extraterrestrials and UFOs started a website we updated daily with news about UFOs because UFOs and extraterrestrial life are in the news every single day and also we built the like I mentioned the largest UFO conference in the world which was tons of fun and the greatest fun with that see what we did was this guy's a smart business guy he decided that you know if you want to get the attention of this field you're entering the field of UFOs this established field get the get something that's already established and has an audience so we acquired the largest conference at that time you're not not sure if it was the largest it probably was but it was certainly the longest running it had been going for 19 years I think when we acquired it so we acquired it for its 20th year and so in doing that it historically had probably yeah pretty crazy audience you know they would have speakers and this was a long conference when we got it it was I think it was five to seven days long now seven days long insane for any conference I mean I know you go to a lot of conferences and you imagine being at one seven days in Laughlin Nevada unless frankly in Laughlin but I'm also thinking like I've been to some conventions I've been to some super super nerd niche conferences as well need to go outside I need to deal with people who are not talking shop all the time like I can't imagine a seven day conference well here's the thing this conference was going on in Laughlin and for two years I think before we got it I'd been invited out to kind of observe and also volunteer at the event when it was in Laughlin because you know we were working on this transition period for a while but so working on the I think a day before the conference and stay a day after for set up and tear down so you know nine plus days living in a hotel in Laughlin about them it was pretty exhausting and took I mean you always have to recover after a conference but that one was a good month long recoup primarily to get all of the old people and cigarettes out of my lungs but and cigarettes people are just there waiting to die it's so depressing I hate Laughlin so much oh it's so sad but I wouldn't I couldn't maybe yeah maybe I yes I could imagine a UFO conference would be older people yeah primarily it's older and and here's the thing that is fantastic and you know we were so so happy about with what I and a colleague of mine were able to accomplish with that conference like I said it was historically like pretty crazy stuff pretty far out there very much like preaching to the choir people a lot of the really crazy stuff to come with UFOs we were able to start slowly introducing more science into it we would get mainstream scientists to come speak we would get military officials to come speak we would get people from former former NASA people to come speak it was incredible so that was a huge accomplishment and something I was so proud of to get these scientists get that scientific voice in there and get people thinking about it and I think it's surprise a lot of people and the press I mean it was great for press to hear the these credible people coming to a UFO conference you know talking about stuff in a very rational scientific way and you bet your ass we got those angry grouchy people coming up to us saying what the hell is that guy here for we don't want his kind and you're well you know now your reaction is exactly why he's here you know and that's a frustrating mindset of dealing with UFOs or any field you know you have people who are very much in that religious mindset of you know this is what's established that's what's been told to me I've made up my mind don't tell me anything else I'm done thinking somebody else already told me what to think so so I like trying to shake it up and challenge people to think for themselves that's always a good idea yeah it's a heart trying to get people to actually think as opposed to just believe the last thing they heard absolutely absolutely so I mean I definitely got thrown into the UFO world it's not something I expected but it's certainly an experience that I have loved so much you know I'd open the doors for TV shows and various things too it created a lot of wonderful relationships and you know I think I'm kind of stuck with it because so I don't think UFOs are going anywhere anytime soon and in fact I just wrote a UFO book so did I know that you wrote a book I don't think I knew that no you didn't know that I just announced it like last week or two weeks ago on on my podcast UFO mod pod so yeah that should be coming out in the next perhaps day or so but wait who's who published it I published it you you self-published I do everything myself just start start a concert venue start putting fans published a book the publisher listed on it is Rogue Planet my company but okay yeah totally self-published so huh I'm sorry I'm writing this down I need to you need to text me a link to that when that's up oh I certainly will yeah I got my good friend Caleb Hanks to do the artwork for it it's fantastic the title of the book is is called Only Weirdos CUFOs and it's maybe true it's kind of proving the opposite of that you know certainly acknowledging that crazy people you know certainly have their wonderful fantastic stories but it highlights sort of the history of the modern UFO era it just provides a brief interview it's not for UFO people and that's what most UFO literature is it's you know books written by UFO people for UFO people you know trying to preach to the choir and you know get their approval because they're saying what they know people want to hear this book is not not specifically for the UFO crowd it's for the general public it's to provide a general introduction a brief overview of kind of the history of UFOs and pointing out the types of people who have seen UFOs ranging from you know celebrities and military people and astronauts it also kind of split in in multiple segments but extraterrestrial life's a big part of it too talking about different thoughts on extraterrestrial life including intelligent extraterrestrial life some of the efforts on your way to detect extraterrestrial life and even claims by a former NASA astrobiologist that we've already discovered extraterrestrial life so you know there's a whole lot of stuff in there it's fascinating it's all documented and cited to which I think is very important but absolutely all done as a responsible and skeptical journalist wow that's awesome congratulations I can't believe I didn't know that you were doing that it was very hard for me to keep that secret but so yeah very very few people were in the know why didn't you tell me already about it? because if I decided that I wasn't gonna do it exactly that's no I'm 100% with you on that I always like I only tell people that something I'm doing once I have a contract signed or I have an end date in mind it's sort of like most worry of announcing things just in case like it doesn't work out for timing or whatever reason but like I have so like a hundred hundred you know or half started or half completed so yeah I don't bother talking about any event until I actually know what's gonna happen yeah I totally get that but that's super cool and I'm very excited to read that because I know I know that you're you're the so I feel like this is a perfect segue into how I actually know you and why we ended up doing this podcast together because I I met you through the UFO world when you were hosting well I mean not just hosting you were writing directing editing and producing spaced spacing out is the show right speaking out on Open Minds TV and you asked me to come on as a guest via Skype which was weird in retrospect because I was about four miles away from you and we were doing that Skype call to come in and talk about Curiosity landing and the first time I actually hosted the show with you and your former co-host Maureen was out of town met some of the people that you worked with and it was very interesting that in that office was I remember this the display case of cameras not of pictures of UFOs but cameras that people had photographed UFOs wasn't that amazing didn't that completely change your mind it was one of those things where I was like I'm not totally sure how I'm supposed to react to this because yeah I don't I mean I don't believe that there are UFOs signaling to us but I believe that there is extraterrestrial life somewhere in the universe it's got to be like just odd say that it should be a thing but that was when I was like right you're the skeptic and the scientist therefore like I'm okay to be friends with you you know this is just a side note we should for this show sometime go out in LA to one of those UFOs summoning oh my god that would be amazing yes I saw a summoning in was it an echo park somewhere there's like on there's okay I don't remember what park is but like there's a park and you can look over Dodger Stadium and all the fancy things and there was a guy doing a summoning and I looked him up on I forget his name you probably know who this is but I looked there are a few of them who do it regularly yeah so I looked at some of his videos of like how he does his summonings and pictures and video testimonials of like real things he's spotted and every single one of them because I had been in the park that day and saw what other kinds of things are going on on a Sunday morning in Los Angeles it was 100% escaped balloons from just like oh of course you don't see things when it's not like a Mexican holiday like it was just so it was just so obvious to be in that park and be like oh my god this is just nuts what you need to do is get a drone to either be a UFO but also like whatever they they see as a UFO like film it from up there and see what it really is yeah you know and that's the great thing about having like you know good cameras on those scenes where you can actually zoom in and see things better because there's a lot of weird shit in this guy like stuff looks weird for sure and that's you know the majority of UFO sightings I mean there's no secret about that and most responsible journalists UFO researchers will tell you that 95% of all UFOs can be explained I mean there is weird shit and that's where why Chinese lanterns and even the International Space Station you know are reported so many times because if you're not used to seeing them they look weird as shit like there's so much stuff and certain atmospheric conditions and things make just normal things look weird in the sky yeah so it's easy to get confused if you're not used to seeing things but you know these people who yeah summon UFOs are just really shameful people I mean they they know exactly what they're doing but they do it regularly and they post on social media and get these groups to come out and yeah it's just so frustrating I would I would love to go to one of those and just we should we should do it just to you know get some footage and throw it up and then we can talk about it later but you know it's very interesting an example of having great technology um I was on an episode of a short-lived show on that geo called chasing UFOs and all those people are my friends I love them um but Ben McGee was the the science on the show this he he brought the science there was they had a broken into three they had a science believer and skeptic his role was science and they gave him for this particular episode we did a gigantic lens on this camera and I forget the specs on it but it was really rad and really expensive yeah um we were out in the middle of the desert at night and we were with this guy who sees UFOs over phoenix all the time and we see this light go up in the sky conveniently um and not implying anything but there just happened to be a light when we were out there so um you know it looked pretty awesome looked pretty pretty weird and even with the cameras you know I had with me and really big lens and stuff we had to but even zooming in with that stuff couldn't really determine much you know and also with optics at night when you zoom in like yeah it looks like this things changing shape and it looks like there might be you know an alien inside or you know different weird things um you're seeing on the camera but with this amazing lens that Ben McGee had and he was using he pointed it right at it zoomed in and you could clearly see the very defined shape of a Chinese lantern it was amazing seeing that detail later that night we saw tons of other lights in the distance that were very weird but they were flares being dropped by planes um out of Luke Air Force Base and it was awesome that they chose that night to drop flares because you know those are other things that look really weird in the sky these things looked awesome and they were dropping a shit ton of them I have no idea why you know I grew up in Phoenix and I've seen flares all the time I mean I had great view of the very very Goldwater range and saw flares dropped all the time by the A10s but these were just dropping nonstop it was crazy and it was a great show to watch but with this lens he could zoom in and basically see the outline of the pilots themselves in the jets coming in for a landing when they were done oh my god that's nuts it was amazing and of course they didn't use any of that footage on the show but it was epic I want that lens oof I can't if it can resolve that kind of detail I can't even imagine how expensive that would be but that's so cool oh it was several hundred thousand dollars for sure yeah solid full that's I find so interesting and like for me the UFO stuff is like I enjoy it because it's a thing that is unexplained until you dig into the science and then can science the shit out of it and then it becomes a really fun yeah I agree it's like a fun teachable moment of like you see this this is what you think well here's why you think that and here's what's really happening yeah yeah as we go from you and I meeting because I don't know how you found me covering the curiosity landing actually so but you did yeah no I think it's yeah you know I the space hangout so is it that whole like it was certainly that that's a part of it you know at the time you know like I like I mentioned you know I was following anything space related every single day and being a journalist plowing through the news at the time you know just regular journalists writing about space and things going on with current space events you were one of the journalists that you know I would regularly cite you and post links to articles and things like that so yeah yeah I mean at the at the time trying to remember they were just a a couple of people that I found myself you know reading pretty regularly and inciting to and it was you and I think Jason major and don't remember who else but yeah so that's how I how I found you I mean you were one of the people that I was certainly following for cool which is so funny because that was like it was a year and a half into my career at that point which is so yeah back at one point in my life I was like an actual space journalist but let's go further back than that because my space story starts way long ago when I was a tender age of 7 wearing red corduroy pants and second grade school project presentation true story because I have the picture of me gesturing to my poster you're going to say I still have the pants and I'm sure you could fit in them but I don't think I know that I wasn't that big as a 7 year old I do weirdly this is like the weirdest thing but I am I still have my Kilt from high school because I went to a private school and I've had that Kilt since the 7th grade and I've moved the buttons over as I grew up but I wore it to my cousin's wife's bachelorette party because we all had to dress up as the Shauna that we know and she and I went to the same high school that's how I knew her before she and my cousin started dating so I dressed up as high school Shauna and like worn my uniform and it was like wow I actually still fit into this thing 15 years later but no I don't have those pants I was 7 and I can't remember my mom and I remember the story differently but at any rate I ended up doing a second grade project on Venus which I thought was the coolest thing out of this world because not in the world that it was like roughly the same size of the earth not that much closer to the sun than the earth and yet it rotates backwards compared to all of the planets it's year it's day is one year long and also it's like the earth turned inside out and on fire and full of death but it's right there on the sky and you can see it and even you know when you're I was 7 and you can pick it out it's very easy to find Venus in the night sky and I was like it's so cool that I can see this planet and I know that like if I were to go to there it would be like a raging inferno and death so that just like got me really interested in the variety of planets in our solar system and then I got one of those like little kids for space books it was actually called I think a thousand one facts about space I got it like the book fair at my school that year and every planet has a two page spread and the one on the moon has a little cartoon of two astronauts walking on the surface in front of a lunar module and because I grew up in Canada where not everybody and their grandfather works for NASA or a NASA contractor I had never heard of the moon landings and I just had that moment of wait they went to the moon and I was not informed and I just like wanted to know like how and why this happened like what like it's it I couldn't get my tiny seven-year-old brain around like why would you do that because like I knew the moon was pretty but I couldn't imagine like walking on it so then I just became like fascinated with Apollo and it worked out that like three years later Apollo 13 came out and I was a little bit older and could kind of understand it and it was already a huge Tom Hanks fan because big is a great movie and that was just like oh my God and there are real people that went into space of course and I started like reading about the astronauts and like that's how I kind of got fascinated with like understanding and tracking Apollo so it's just like that weird nerd that loved it but I wasn't good at math so ended up like the long story short is I ended up like studying history of science and then and then a corporate communications and public relations because that is a soul-sucking experience that we can talk about another time and then I did a masters in science technology studies which is like soul-sucking in the other direction because the only thing worse than like constantly being in school is constantly being in school to impress a bunch of old professors I just didn't want to stay in academia so I just left I didn't even go to my my graduation for my masters I have the diploma but like they mailed it to me because I didn't want to go it was two hours I was looking at home for that year too and it was a two hour commute each way I was like oh forget that I'm not doing that um graduations are boring anyway they're so boring my high school graduation was fine because there was 57 people and my undergrad graduation was fine because there was like there were two people in my in my year in my degree field so like you knew everybody so when it's like small in a community it's sort of like I want to go because I want to support my friends that one I was just like I really don't give a shit um my parents were a little bit mad but meh um so yeah I just like I ended up moving to phoenix and starting a blog and that was just like my weird thing of like I don't know what to do with my life right now um but I know that I love this so I started blogging and then the blogging like within two months like I started my blog in November and in January I was writing for other websites like it just happened really really quickly and I don't even know how um it was supposed to happen apparently it was because like I've always loved writing I've always loved reading but it was just like I had to find that midpoint between like like popular writing to find like the popular science writing um and it just like it worked out really really quickly they started writing for different websites and gradually like started getting paid for it which is awesome so that was like you met me around that time when it was like the science journalism but my blog was always like super weird niche of space history so I was like doing these two things simultaneously um but it was really like I started it just to engage my nerdom of Apollo and it was just 100% for me to just like I want to have a reason to dig into these reports and then just like spiraled it just spiraled into like whatever it is you would call my job right now like I had a meeting with a bunch of uh YouTube YouTube people for I think that I'm not allowed to talk about because I'm under like a bunch of NDAs right now um but yeah they like came to my house to see my studio space which is also just my apartment um and they were like so what do you like what do you call your job I'm like I don't know it's really weird to define what I do now but like it's space history it's just space history all the way down yeah it's odd not to come up with a a very cool title for you I mean it's space content creator is yeah a little dry but I I usually more accurate with I go with space space like a story in because that's like ultimately everything I do right now it's very rare at this point that I do like straight up journalism which I actually don't mind yeah because I don't know if you've ever done like and like I I get that some people thrive on that energy and that sort of need to get something done immediately but like it honestly just paces me off because it breeds so much sloppy writing and batter research as it's like what I always wanted wanted to do is like a weekly science roundup of like last week in science like let's take a few days let's see what the discussion is online and then let's answer the questions that people have that no one can answer an hour after the press release comes out it's like it's super because like when I covered curiosities landing that was the first time I was at JPL that night and I was in the media room and it was the first time I ever saw like regular journalists like doing their thing and everybody who spent the entire day writing their stories on the successful landing and the failed landing and they just left blank spaces where they would fill in the details and I was like this this is soul sucking this is taking something it's so horrible and I was so happy that my role that day was just to do a live webcast and everybody was fighting to like get their stories into their editors and be like I'm just going to text him the the time so that he can push it live immediately because everyone's just trying to get the first story to get all the views to make all the money and I was like this is the worst so yeah I just like I can't do the journalism thing but like writing is awesome so the ranty version of the space story but I am like all done the fear now so oh gotta gotta hurry that story now I'm I'm with you on that I mean journalism is so depressing and having written for you know a few different media outlets it's just it's not surprising at all I mean it would be surprising if stories actually had you know real details and things that were fact-checked and sited to but yeah the the amount of stories that they make people turn out every day as quickly as they do for as little money as they do it's no wonder it's all crap it really is I love like when you get into like the deep dive journalism stuff like I love the research that's involved and like following stories and like when you're a journalist as opposed to anyone in like law enforcement or something like you have more ability to like talk to different people and follow different paths and be speculative and like try to make connections like that part is really filling the research element but like for me that comes from the academic side of things it's not a thing that I see specifically in journalism so it's just like yeah that's that's the kind of journalism that I like but that's not what most people do and yeah the money that people give you for doing journalism is not especially online I don't know if like print media is different but print media exists it does exist oh my God so when I was working with New Horizons last summer I was right embedded I was an embedded journalist so I was on the team that was like creating the press releases in the media that we'd push out about the mission which meant like conversations every day with like the PI and all the team leads and all the science people about what they want to get out what's most important then we'd like break it into English for the humans and then like package it nicely and put it out and everybody in that room I I mean I will say I was the youngest person by 30 years and the only woman on that team so how interesting that was to be taken seriously but it was everybody you know they wanted to be front-page above the fold on the New York Times they wanted the print media and I'm like guys what you want is to go viral on Twitter like if and I like we had this fight I was like if you want your image to go crazy and have more people talking about your stuff you have the best stuff to work with make your image caption tweet link and then everybody will know what you're talking about all over the place when they finally listen to me like yeah they had stuff get picked up all over the place it was just so it was so interesting working in like the mix of science with research and journalism with old media and new media in one on one at one table every day for four hours for a month it was it was bizarre yeah I bet it was very very interesting and the conversations are hilarious and I mean yeah those are other stories but like it was just so it's just so interesting to see how different people still view media yeah and even like my parents still like you know I'll tell them like oh I just signed some contract to host some show they're like oh cool I'm like yeah it's going to be it's new media so it's on YouTube like oh it's like it's hard it's hard to gauge that like that's still a thing sure yeah new media is not completely distinct from old media it's just it's all media they all make money the same way but it's yeah that's very different but yeah it's a weird complicated world we live in it is sorry it is which is why I like just sitting at quietly at my desk with my my cat sitting on my arms all the time while I just write my nerdy things about space history yeah I don't know why I'm thinking about this now but today your comment about your your kilt I don't know if you saw this but so I'm a big astrobiology enthusiasts that's something very much into and I even got a astrobiology certificate from one of those Coursera courses I think when Coursera first launched one of the first courses they had was an astrobiology course so yeah I took that and the professor who did that course was a professor Charles Cackel from the UK and I just read I think yesterday the day before I think astrobiology magazine posted it but professor Cackel like submitted or licensed or whatever you do tartan for astrobiology really so astrobiology has it's on tartan you can like literally join the clan yes exactly so one of these days I'll get it get my official astrobiology kilt that's that'll be good that'll be weird I think I've ever seen a man and a kilt in phoenix have you seen I can't think of the last time I saw a man and a kilt have you seen no effects here no the last I thought I saw no effects was with you in San Diego and I couldn't see I couldn't see no effects yeah I couldn't either to be fair by that point all the bros were directly in front of me and I was just looking at a bunch of necks when did no effects become the bro punk band like that's a thing because I've seen a long time times in recent years but like I kind of forgot that like that was the thing that was except that was the one punk band that for some reason the bros latched onto you and every time I've been to a festival that no effects is playing it's like you know no effects is coming on because people have magically done the research of setlist because they only want to see no effects and then all of a sudden all these guys in tank tops and backwards hats just like come out of nowhere like where did you all come from sadly here sadly isn't isn't that true for all of the bands we love from the 90s I guess I guess yeah maybe maybe not all real big fish is a pretty big bro band I guess I guess that's true I don't know I yeah I guess that's true although I've been to more of their shows recently where the audience is like surprisingly young like they're 18 well that's because you're on the stage and you only see the people up front that's a different crowd that is that is true I do but even yeah I don't know maybe it's just because I've been to events with them recently that's like that are just you younger I don't know yeah I don't know interest yeah I mean I mean they're still at least a band who tours constantly so you know they're they're doing that and and in doing so getting new fans so and they do weird shows like I saw them at at the the beach got festival in Santa Ana a few weeks ago and there was like actually I was laughing pretty hard that there was a line of kids towards the front that were like they just epitomized to beach got like they were in shorts and tank tops with like the full on emo hair but like white face paint to be like like super goth kid but also punk got like it was just like and they were maybe music like they were so young was like what like who are these people it's really funny again to each of their own but yeah no it's it's true I guess there's a lot of bands that have been sort of like reappropriated from the 90s into like pop culture bands I don't know yep it's it's a little bit odd so I I go to shows and I were a common full circle on this one I go to shows I immediately grab a beer so I just like stop paying attention to things around me and just enjoy it yeah I'm with you there yeah it's cause I'm old yeah I you know we're gonna talk about all of this stuff so much because again that's what this podcast is so it's well go in depth these all these topics but the one topic we need to kind of brief over on this episode is our last one and that would be animals pets for babies and I will let you go first because you are the proud mother of a celebrity so I am weirdly the proud cat mama to a famous cat Pete Conrad my cat who is named after the commander of Apollo 12 so he's got some space nerd in him and he is famous because people on the internet know him because he's in the background of my videos and it's very odd but my favorite was when I was actually trying to get verified on Twitter for absolutely no reason beyond I'm annoyed that they wouldn't verify me I found that I have an IMDB page I did not make it I do not care about these things but the page has my name and then the trivia is her cat's name is Pete Conrad after the I'm just like seriously I was higher billing than any of my actual credits on IMDB so Pete is famous kind of amazing it's really really funny Pete yeah Pete is a massive great happy cat he is 18 or 13 pounds but not overweight he's just huge and he's handsome and he's lovely I've had Pete since he was five weeks old so he grew up like he actually got him in Phoenix at the an animal hospital near where my ex and I were living and he was raised by vets since he was like four days old and then I took him home early he was a pound and a half he'd like fit in the pot like I have tiny hands and he fit in the palm of my hand so he's so social and because I work from home he's so good about being around people which is really really fun and I was never a cat person growing up which is the weirdest part about me being owned by a cat right now um I always wanted a dog and my mom I was a competitive gymnast and went to school really far from I went to a snooty French private school so like if if Toronto is a rectangle we live here my school was here my gym club was here so yeah there was no time for me to also walk a dog my parents ended up my parents got a dog three weeks after I moved out for university they literally replaced me with something equally small and white they have a West Highland white area he's adorable and I love the dog but it's really funny that I was 100% I call them hi it's your first born as opposed to your first bought that's right um but yeah so I always I've always been a dog person but when I moved in with my ex oh golly so many years six years ago in Phoenix um he had a cat I didn't really know what to do with cats cause like they just kind of are awful um and then I ended up it took me a year to like understand how cats work and also for this cat who has rescued off the street to like trust me and love me so Emma I fell in love with this cat and then I decided that like we needed a kitten because experiencing kittens are way more fun than cats so he bought me a cat for my my 27th birthday which ultimately ended up me going and picking the cat and then paying for all of his vaccination so I bought myself a cat for my birthday um but that was Pete and then so Pete grew up like my favorite thing about him is that he doesn't even know a cat right like because we had this older cat Emma that hated this tiny kitten so Pete would try to play and Emma would be like you little dick I hate you and hiss and he thought hissing means I'm having so much fun so whenever Pete's like agitated and like playing and getting really excited and he starts hissing I have to tell people like oh no he's not being aggressive he's just really excited he just does not a cat right yeah so yeah he's like he's a weird cat he likes to go for walks in the hall on his leash he likes the car that's awesome and so weird he's like literally like sits at my desk like he's like you're here you're here hi I'm here can I do stuff do stuff do stuff with me just stare at the stairs at him he's like may may I help you thank you so it's fun yeah I'm 100% owned by a cat it's bad but anyways but so it's for you kind of the the opposite because I grew up with cats so I always thought I was a cat person and then when I met my wife she was a dog person and not a cat person and I didn't have cats at that time so you know I got to know her dogs and you know made it very clear there wasn't really a dog person because to me you know I grew up with dogs too and the dogs were always just kind of these big celebrity kind of annoying things the dogs that she had were these small dogs that seemed to act more like cats than dogs so hmm okay if these dogs can be like cats I can get on board with this and so we eventually got two of our own and you know they're little seven pound guys little Maltese these white white fluffy dogs who are 15 years old now with all of their poor health problems but they're totally our kids they're these little sweet things that are like cats they like curling up with us and taking up too much of the bed at night even though they're like this big but but yeah they're they're definitely our our babies Hercules and Odysseus those seem to be the appropriate names for tiny macho dogs very good names yeah but yeah love those little guys and man I hope the DEA never raids our house because we have so many drugs like the dresser is just lined with all of these drugs they take and the funny thing is one one of the medications that Hercules has to take for either his heart or his kidneys is a controlled substance so you know it's a little more difficult to get I can't just get it through the mail or whatever I've got to go in person and and show my ID when I get it it's crazy that's that's intense for dog medication is it also human medication like what oh yeah yeah I know it's a abuse substance yeah I know I know these things can go hand in hand because I got a prescription for I think it was Addivan from my doctor for Pete when I had to take him on a plane when I when I moved out to LA was the first and only time he's ever flown and I I had to drug him because he was just there's way too much going on that day yeah it was funny yeah no we get almost all of his prescriptions from a people pharmacy you know we just get it at Walgreens one is only a pet medication so we have to get that at the vet but all the others are people people vet people people people vet a.k.a. doctor yep interesting yeah I mean like it makes sense my my parents dog the replacement child if you will is again oh golly when did I graduate high school it's been like 13 years something around there don't count the years just a person many years I know it's a meh but yeah the anyways the dog is old is the point and he's starting to lose his eyesight and he's starting to get arthritis and he's diabetic and all these like I mean this is the problem with purebred dogs is like they have from in breathing they have so many more problems whereas mutts are just like hearty little things that will eventually fall over and die because everything dies sorry to ruin things kids but everything dies yeah so this this dog has like similar medications to human things and like some of it is like oh yeah I can just get this at the drugstore like that's super weird that you can just like buy your pet meds at your drugstore where you pick up your own medication but yeah yeah thankfully Pete is Pete's turning four in February so he's he's not in need of meds yet well that's good Pete should stay healthy I keep every time every time my parents tell me what's going on with the dog I'm just like Pete Pete never get old never get old I don't yeah you're not allowed to die Pete's not allowed to die yeah we love our so much and it's actually kind of my insane love for them that started me down the road of of becoming vegan so really I'm vegan now it was I mean I won't lie it was immediately my wife like I'm a ridiculous weirdo and the first date we went on so many years ago I guess 17 years ago was I took her to this and she was nice she didn't say anything that she should have but I took her to this chicken place next to or in the in the neighborhood of of Arizona State University and she didn't want anything and you know I'm too dumb to pick up on things and then I'm sitting there eating in front of her feeling bad tomorrow will you please eat some of this I feel really bad and she's all no no no she's being very polite and then she eventually told me she was vegetarian at the time and and for forcing her to go there and watch me eat this so I got up and took my food through it in the trash and I said all right let's go and from that moment I became vegetarian so wow that that was your first date too that was my quick change wow and yeah then then my introduction and growing love for for my animals started me on the road for the vegan thing but that really you know she was again my my ultimate change because she made the switch to to vegan and I'm the cook in the family so you know I'm certainly not going to make two meals so it's just easier for me to figure out how to make everything I wanted to eat but make it vegan so right and you know you mentioned when we were talking about Colorado it was funny because I went to Denver Comic Con a couple years ago and just the funny thing because being vegan looking around it's a great great city for vegans but it was hard to distinguish what places were dispensaries and what places were vegan vegetarian restaurants because everything's called green something or other you know right right pretty funny I could see that especially in Colorado yep yep yeah I've got some really good friends who are vegan and I find it very commendable and I'm vegetarian but I'm not fussy for me it's texture the idea I just can't chew meat that will like bounce back in my mouth it freaks me out but it always for me comes down to cheese yeah I've had vegan cheese my very dear friend Eddie is vegan and every time I hang out with him and like his work people who I also know and love it's always they're all vegan and to the point of like actually we found all they know of and I found one of the best donut shops I've ever tried is in Vegas off the strip and it's vegan I don't know if you've ever been there because I know you enjoy Vegas but I think it's ran ran it's not Randy's there's an R though it might be Randy's is it Randy's I can't I know Randy's is the one in LA that's like the iconic guy holding the donut because I've also had a Randy's donut and it was not nearly as satisfying as it should have been considering how iconic that donut man is but yeah hanging out with vegans is like there's a lot of really good vegan food we found really great vegan pizza again amazing and downtown Vegas but it always comes down to just missing cheese well you're in the right city for it there I miss the restaurants in LA so many great restaurants Mohawk Bend is one of my favorites they always have great vegan stuff I have heard of that place so many times I've never been their cocktails are amazing got to go there but yeah they do good vegan stuff but yeah so many great restaurants there Vegas is great for vegans too and yeah I don't really venture off the strip when I'm in Vegas so really I don't I would see I would see you as I I tend towards downtown always like Fremont Street is just so weird and so fun and like it is weird but yeah I'm I'm I stay on the strip and I I pretty much walk the entire strip yeah but now very one time go ahead yeah oh I was going to the one time I went to Vegas and stayed on the strip that's also that's what I did was just like go for a walk just wander down the strip and just like duck into some like oh this this I've heard of this casino I should just go like poke my head in and obviously have a drink because that's all you can do in Vegas and like I don't gamble but it was just such a weird experience and like I was there alone the first time I went to Vegas which is a very odd thing but like it made sense and I was just like neat to explore Vegas and just wander up and down the strip and just like have everything you need at your fingertips all everywhere it's so weird like nothing on the strip in Vegas it's so funny because it's like I always describe Vegas as like if you took an alien like like like a Martian and said here's everything that's good that's bad that's wrong that's right that's excessive that's poor in America and now design me America but you only have five miles to work with they would give you Las Vegas like they would give you the strip like nothing that exists there should exist it is weird as shit and I love it so much so it's so weird yeah I try to try to be there like every other month if I can but no it's it's amazing we'll have to do it sometime together yeah but again yeah it's great for vegan food and I try to stay near the south into the strip because they call it the Mandalay shops or the shops at Mandalay Bay technically it's in this kind of area between Mandalay Bay and Luxor right there are two restaurants they're owned by the the same person one is called slice of Vegas it's a pizza place predominantly and the other is called Hassan's and despite sounding Asian it's a Mexican food but I would have guessed Indian they both have separate vegan menus and their food is fantastic so at slice of Vegas you can get pizzas sandwiches whatever they have you know they're fake meat so you can get like a meatball pizza they've got the fake cheese and all that so really good stuff there the Mexican place is really good too so those are kind of our go-tos but down at the opposite end of the strip all the way at the north the wind properties every single one of those restaurants have vegan menus too really because Steve Lynn he's a fake vegan but fake vegan? fake vegan he cheats sometimes but that's a secret I'm a vegan but I really love bacon well it's it's almost that yeah I heard from one of his chefs they kind of spilled the beans but now he publicly is a vegan and has made sure that all of his restaurants have vegan menus right so and they got good food it's really really fancy too so it's really expensive but sometimes I spoil myself and go down there yeah I mean I guess it's not surprising that Vegas caters to every possible walk of life and especially on the strip where it's like catering to predominantly people who are willing to spend a lot of money and would then draw in celebrities I imagine who are more into being vegan for I feel like just popularity reasons as opposed to moral or dietary reasons sure it's like it's cool to be vegan now suddenly oh it's cool to only drink coconut water suddenly you know the fad diet thing but yeah it's like it's not surprising that that Vegas would cater to all diets but well and it's in their name too I mean what is somebody called who's from Las Vegas Las Vegan is that really I didn't know that yeah pretty funny oh Las Vegan I did not know that interesting okay yeah yep love that city I'm actually going there for Christmas so oh yeah you did mention that to me once that's I love that that's a YouTube for Christmas I totally do Vegas for Christmas yeah a weird family holiday alone in Vegas just to see what it's like you need to it'll be weird it'll be a lot of sitting around looking around and just people watching and wishing I could be invisible so no one would talk to me yeah yeah you can do it you can do it now we definitely have to do Vegas sometimes yeah yeah Vegas is Vegas is all kinds of weird but I like it I like it it has the National Atomic Testing Museum I know fun weird place I've got to be the only person who goes to Vegas for a vacation just to like spa lie around by a pool and just drink but then also walk three miles to the Atomic Testing Museum because you walk too I walked yeah good for you that's what I do too and I I always I always underestimate how far it is well I've done this before it's not not a big deal it wasn't that far I hate like I was staying at the Trump which I will never go back to because Trump but I will say that it was a beautiful hotel it was hot wire so it was dirt cheap but yeah like two and a half miles I'm like it's not that far it was really far but it was fine it was just hot but yeah no it was it was cool to like go see stuff that's off the strip and I like finding I like going to cities and finding the weird stuff that only locals usually know about and things that are sort of like not the immediate facade of a city that are sort of like one layer back like have you been to I was told before I went to Vegas the first time to go to the double down saloon no I actually haven't yeah I feel like you'd love it it's like it's like a dive bar that is you know plays up the dive bar nest with like graffiti everywhere but it's also just like obviously a bar where no tourists go it's like it's only a block off the strip like it's not that far but it's just all of a sudden you're in this like tiny dingy room and like everybody that goes there is a local who just lives there and it's like it's such a different vibe it's just I don't know it's kind of neat to just go and see like a little brewery that's off the strip now there are a couple breweries there but there's one that's walkable from the strip and I forget what property it's in it's changed ownership a couple of times recently but it's total kind of local weird very very weird in there but fun and I forget they have a promo if you sign up for their player's card like most places do and get a free tour of their brewery interesting thing so just sign up for a player's card to get a free tour of a brewery because most breweries do that for free anticipating that you will buy at least a beer well in most of these places are really small and when you're sitting there you see their breweries so their tour would be yeah see that that's the look through this window here's the brewery okay that's your tour tips yeah yeah for sure but I do the same thing and that's a great thing about Vegas for me is it's walkable and I love walking and exploring so yeah it's it's definitely neat it's one of those places that's like I mean granted it's definitely different for a woman traveling alone then a man or especially a man with his wife traveling somewhere but yeah it's like you sit down anywhere and people will come talk to you and so you know for the most part they're weirdos but every once in a while there's like a normal human being who's just super cool and it's just like hey I'm just like yeah cool new friend you never know you never know when you're gonna be interesting people and that's right yeah like the last time my wife and I were in Vegas and we were propositioned by a porn star who wanted us to come and party but okay I've not had that experience although well I love Vegas it's just so fun and weird it's its own world it is super weird I always I thought the the strangest like five minutes was when I was walking up the strip and I think my cousin my cousin goes to Vegas a lot for trade shows which I I always think it's weird that Vegas is where trade shows are like he's in the fixture display business like he literally sells coat hangers it's built for conventions it totally is if I ever do a convention which I probably will because that's the way I operate I'll do it in Vegas because it is just built for everything that you need everything is there it's the airport's great it's easy to get to people can choose from a variety of hotels mostly cheap hotels and you can walk and their transportation is easy yeah I mean yeah I do get it but it's still it always seems weird because when you think Vegas you don't think trade conventions but right yeah let's go let's go do do our serious business do business let's actually try to like land new accounts in Vegas but that's also why I would do it there too because people can bring their spouses there's significant others or if they don't want to go for the whole thing there's built an entertainment you don't have to like come up with all these separate like off-site events or whatever to get people things to do like they're fine on their own I've been to conferences where it's like this is fun but I'm in the middle of nowhere like prairies are Canada what's the equivalent of prairie provinces in America I don't know Bible Belt America you know wherever it is in America where you're like I'm not in a major city therefore there's nothing to do here and I've been to places like that where it's like this is awesome I would love to leave this conference for dinner right now and just like experience the rest of the world for a night before I dump back in tomorrow and can't do that because you're in the middle of nowhere in a small town so yeah I do I do get that Vegas kind of has something for everybody so that you can get your work done but also have a regular life but yeah yeah no I was just gonna say that I went from this like he always stays at the win so I would just go like wander around and have a drink because that's all I did but I was like walking down the street and like you know 15 people hand of me flyers for hookers and then I walked into the win and right on the on the right is a Manolo Blanc shoe store just like how are these things existing 20 feet from each other like this is just like I don't understand it's it's a confusing so weird world yeah and like even within the properties like the how how much the rooms vary the room types I mean on the same property can be selling $39 rooms but also have like $700 suites you know hmm last time I was in Vegas I had just like a regular room at the Golden Nugget it was just a standard hotel room nothing to write home without so I cared about and friends of mine decided to splurge like a bunch of them splurge together on a suite and all of a sudden you get out of the elevator and it's like gold walls and chandeliers and their suite has like five bathrooms and I'm just like wow how how does this exist yeah two stories up from where I'm staying in like the same building yeah crazy it's so weird and friends of mine who also like they actually got married in Vegas they love Vegas they were looking at there's their rooms that I think it's the hard rock that have private pools down I'm just how like okay to your thing that's nuts but awesome that's pretty awesome now there there is definitely something for everyone there and for every budget I've certainly never experienced any of the kind of over-the-top yeah I've only experienced it by proxy yeah I did get we'll talk about Vegas so many more times on the show but I did before it was demolished sadly the Riviera one time when I was there on tours of properties shopping for potential conference space got a tour of the Riviera and some of its secret rooms and there was this whole like underground type thing where they had living quarters like apartments basically where like some of the mobsters used to live and stuff some of their like big high rollers from the the 70s but yeah these like secret you know multi bedroom apartments below the Riviera it was really cool weird yeah I love the secret history of cities too that's awesome yeah and Vegas definitely has an interesting history but yeah well we should probably wrap this episode up because we yeah we should we've talked people's ears off and little more than a brief introduction of ourselves and what this show yeah so I mean I guess I guess what people can can glean from this is that the show is just going to be a cluster of us like kind of talking about random things that pop out of our malts and heads yeah I feel like we'll pick a topic like Vegas and then just riff on that for an hour and yeah that's right topic and go and I mean I think ideally we do want to bring some interesting guests on between the two of us we do have a lot of interesting friends some some really fascinating and weird and yeah drink and talk about this stuff with a seal and they will set the random topic of the day and then we will just rant for a while about it so yeah it'll be funny we should actually do that we should like invite them on the show and they'll say what are we talking about and say you know what why don't you go ahead and pick it and we'll talk about it and it'll be totally when do you want to talk about Elmo today okay well you know interesting you mentioned that because when I was in that's creepy I've never seen a character without a head and I feel like they're always wandering around without their heads because it's so hot so you see these like really sleep like you know it's sad but they look like you know these dirty homeless people on your own yeah and you see like I never get parents bringing their kids to Vegas it's not a family vacation place people don't understand that but people always have their little kids there and they're like always have kids there and they always shuffling them around hotels are like because I like I actually just just booked tonight in Vegas for a couple weeks from now and like I was looking at this hotel and they're like you know family deals I'm like how are you saying like bachelor bachelorette parties sexy fun times family events like I would never take my shit like not that I have children but where the casinos say like no one under 21 or whatever so they can't even go to the casino the parents want to go do something where do they're either bad parents and say you stay here in the room and don't make any noise we'll be back in a couple hours what are you going to do like I last I can't do anything they can't do anything you can't do anything but I'm stuck and I was I was wandering down Fremont Street like 2 a.m. and there was like a parent pushing a two-year-old in a stroller who was passed out like two-year-olds can sleep through anything but I was just like I don't know how I feel about this on the one hand like good on you for not coddling your child to death but the same time like this feels weird yeah little weird I love Vegas I'm happy to you know take anybody there and show them around but not encouraging it for for kids and if you want to have fun at all and not be miserable in Vegas and have a miserable Vegas experience don't break your kids although I did go to a hotel so I was there for punk rock bowling in May and the tournament was at a hotel that was like way off the strip like we were all staying downtown and it was like a 30 minute bus ride to this venue which is like super annoying but by the time you're going back you're drunk so it doesn't matter but it was I forget what the name of this hotel was but it was like all in like everything there's like a water park inside the hotel and but like it was it was the it was the destination for families because there was a casino but also like a pool so you send your kids to the pool you go gamble and you like reconvened for dinner it was just like this is weird but it's also the kind of like casino hotel that exists in like middle America yeah like it was such a weird it was such a weird thing and like so far from anything else in Vegas it was odd I mean circus circus still exists on the strip and that's just a weird place it's just dirty and run down and sad I've never been there I've heard so much about it and I've heard of it like it's role in the history of Vegas but I've never wandered over there because I've I've been Dan every time I've been there and recently it's been downtown yeah yeah yeah that's a weird one I haven't been there in years but it's still there yep yep it's so odd it's all fun all right well let's wrap this up I'm out of beer second time around I'm out of beer I am also maybe that should be the rule is once you're out of beer you're out of podcast yeah it's a good way to go yeah we'll have to get the big ones yep that'll be really fun especially if you start doing an IPA or a stout with a high ABV yeah yeah be nice and toasted by the end of it smiles smiles all around yeah this introduction in introductory episode everything about this show is introductory and kind of off the cuff I guess so very much we're we're figuring out figuring it out as we go and in between drinks so in the meantime until we figure things out and kind of feel things out and how we want it to go from here on out we're just playing it by year so the best thing for you to do to find out when we're going to do this again which will probably be soon hopefully soon yeah follow us on social media we're all over the place but probably the easiest place for you to see when we update would be Twitter I am at a centric that's a C E C E N T R I C and I am A S T Vintage Space yep so follow us straight forward follow us there and we'll be sure to post when the next show is coming up and anything related to the show and anything related to all the topics we talk about on this show yeah and of course if you guys who listen to this have any questions or comments or topics that you would like to hear us ramble about or guess that you would like to maybe see if we can manage to get on the show definitely let us know on Twitter and we'll see what we can and absolutely cannot make happen but hopefully can yeah hopefully can and yeah anything we're we're pretty easy going about something stupid will tell you you're stupid now we won't we're nicer than that but if there's a beer you would like us to try and give you our opinion on we're happy to do that to yeah beer recommendations are a good one to crowdsource always looking for your recommendations yeah yeah all right well thank you everybody for listening I hope it hasn't been as crazy as I think it has been but we've certainly had fun so that's important to yeah alright