 What's up everybody? Welcome. Welcome. We are here for a classic cast. We're here for classic cast Number nine actually we're here for classic cast number nine. I'm here with tips out. I'm here. We'll stay safe Uh, let's see. We can hear you guys. We can hear you guys great We're gonna talk about leveling today. We're gonna talk about leveling today and the approach to the leveling process There's a lot of different ways. There's a lot of different ways to level in vanilla. Wow Whether you want to go for more of a casual style whether you want to go for more of a hardcore style Let's go ahead and start by giving Our general approaches that tips. Do you want to go ahead and start? Yeah, honestly, um, I I'm typically a kind of not not a speed leveler But I do like to move pretty quickly throughout leveling I think leveling is a really really fun kind of mini competition in a sense I know a lot of people especially in the modern version of wow today it's all about the rating and stuff like that but in vanilla the really cool part about it is leveling is this long arduous process and For me personally, I like to do things fast do things efficient But at the same time enjoy the cool quest along the way Enjoy all the really nice quest lines and all the really nice stories and just has have fun with the community man Have fun run dungeons do this stuff, you know Yeah, for sure for sure Stay safe. Do you want to do you want to go for it? Yeah, I mean Out of everything in all of vanilla wow, I think leveling is probably Probably my favorite thing to do more than rating or pvp or or whatever or ranking up leveling is my favorite thing I love doing that the most. I've done it so many times back in the day I did it once on a mage and I've done it several other times since then Um, and at this point like my my faith my approach towards leveling is to try to do it Sort of as fast as possible I think what tib said is true like it can be sort of a competitive and not not necessarily competing against Against other people while competing against yourself. Okay. This time. I did it in seven days slash played I'm gonna go for under seven days this time Uh, it can definitely be competitive and it's a lot of fun Yeah, for sure um, for me personally, uh, I've been Generally more of a casual leveler. I'm a lot like tips and I like to enjoy the leveling process whether that's Doing pvp whether that's going through and doing all the dungeons Like I know for me the last time the last time that I leveled to 60 Uh, I actually I I made it my goal. Like, you know what? I want to experience the whole game So I want to go and and go to zones that I didn't go to in the past. I want to Level up through dungeons that I didn't do in the past. It's actually funny the first time I ever leveled to 60 So I've talked about it before a lot of you guys already know But Dark Age of Camelot Dark Age of Camelot is a game that I played as the MMO that I played before world of warcraft That's how I got into MMOs and in that game at least on launch. There really wasn't questing It was you kind of just grinded mobs at least that's that's how I leveled and it took me forever to level But that's what I did and wow too. So That's just because that was my How I did it like, you know, kind of I was new to quests and stuff I just a lot of times I just end up killing boars in Westfall, you know, so Uh, yeah, it was just one of those things for me that I wanted to go back and I and this is the same thing in classic I'm and or it's going to be different in classic uh one's classic launches because Whenever that happens, I think I'm going to go more of a speed leveling route instead of going with the more uh Kind of kind of methodical having fun with it doing pvp and stuff while leveling I think it's going to be a little bit different for me. I think it's going to be a little bit different for me Yeah, hopefully hopefully we get an opportunity to practice a lot on alpha and beta whenever that happens Yes, that would be nice Yeah, it's crazy because you know, if you're used to leveling Uncertain versions of the gamer in patch 112 one At the end of the day, like when it comes to like grinding, especially grinding locations Like I know a lot of the grinding locations that I use they're subject to change for classic Like I know some of the mobs that I grind on there's no way those are the correct armor armor values like at all So it's really interesting. I'm really excited to see uh to see the classic beta official Yeah, you can see you can actually practice there. It's going to be really good I definitely think you're right like spell damage values resistance values like spell resistance values on mobs armor values Auto attack values. I bet all of these things are slightly off or vary off I think I'm super excited to see an actual correct version of vanilla. Wow that we haven't seen since since uh since january 2007 when vanilla wow ended, right? Yeah So kind of talking about vanilla wow Right, we talked about 1.12 a lot We do know at this point we do know that that's going to be the patch that they're going to at least base the game off of That'll be the base patch for the game While they haven't given blizzard hasn't given any confirmation of progressive itemization or progressive content I think that's something that's pretty well It's pretty well understood that it's going to be something that If they don't approach the game that way it's going to be very detrimental Even though they haven't technically confirmed it But you know we're hoping for the best, right? um With a fresh launch of the servers in the 1.12 patch Let's go over that a little bit because there's there's again a few different ways to approach it and it is going to be different Presumably it's going to be different than whenever The server is initially launched back in if you're in the u.s. November of 20 or 2004 Stay safe. Do you want to do you want to hit us up with that? Yeah, I mean so if it's if it's launching with 1.12, they're going to have a lot of quests in the game that That weren't available with patch 1.1 vanilla when vanilla initially launched I also want to say just like early on in this in the classic cast here if if Classic wow is going to be your first time playing vanilla wow if you've never played it anywhere else back in the day or anywhere else Like I I really am sort of envious of you I I really want you guys to go slow and enjoy it and level professions and do dungeons to have fun and make friends and Explore the world If you haven't done it before but I totally understand if you've done it if you've done it before several times like I totally understand wanting to sort of like min max your gameplay and Yeah, definitely like we're going to have to see Running on patch 1.12 on a fresh on a fresh release Are they having dynamic respawns that impacts the most efficient way to level? That impacts the the effect the most efficient group leveling size like are you leveling solo? Are you leveling in a group of two men? Are you leveling with three four five people? All of this depends on whether or not that like really a very fundamental issue is dynamic response I think with this fresh server release with classic wow. What do you guys think? I completely agree like At the end of the day, especially when it comes to population sizes If there's anything that's going to change from the original vanilla to now One of the only things that I can see blizzard modifying is population sizes because in all likelihood The reason for the 3k restriction back in the day was probably a tech related issue And seeing as they're using the modern client I think it's very possible that they boost the population sizes possibly to double triple. We don't really know But if they do that they they have to implement some kind of dynamic respawning And if they do that like stays they've said it affects leveling routes All of a sudden grinding becomes a more efficient group grinding really becomes a big thing You wouldn't normally see that on a like 3k pop server And um I mean, I don't know how how stay safe you feel about or as Fendi feel about it But I'm not a big fan of dynamic response like at all Uh, I don't like the idea of grinding the same four mobs over and over for like 20 hours straight And then switching to the next four mobs like in the next zone over Uh, I think that could potentially be very damning and I don't think that's what vanilla was was ever really about Yeah, I think for for me this is kind of my perspective on dynamic response Uh, I think it's sort of like a band-aid fix that we've seen in recent years It's sort of a band-aid fix that we've seen in recent years and I was talking about band-aid fixes, but um It's a band-aid fix and almost like a necessary evil in order to to be able to Handle the game properly for what it is. Um to to give at least the best experience for that population size Another alternative to dynamic response would be to go and manually reset and almost, you know redesign The respawn times on every single mob every single rare every single this everything every single that Uh, and that's something that could be like a very long process But To do it manually I think I mean that you're going to get the best results if you do it manually as opposed to like just having like an Automatic thing like oh, there's more people playing respond faster, you know, uh, I I don't know if that's something that they would do but, uh There is an alternative. I just think it's very very It's going to be very very meticulous Yeah, I think my big my personal biggest issue with it Obviously, you know grinding in a certain area for for 20 hours moving to the next area. That's not part That's not a journey. That's not leveling. That's just grinding which i'm cool with I just don't think it's part of the game. It should be part of the game um The biggest issue with dynamic response is when the player has no idea If the dynamic response are working or what rate they're working at and When it comes to like a player experience Imagine you just go into a zone expecting there to be the dynamic spawns up And they're not up and then all of a sudden you have to go to a different zone because all of those mobs are dead in that zone You go to the other zone Oh wait, those are not up But now the ones in the previous zone are up and it creates a situation where Players don't even know how to approach leveling anymore because they're kind of in the dark I think what's better than dynamic response is accelerated response Just have a flat rate if you want to make it twice as fast three times as fast four times as fast depending on the population It obviously has economic implications But I think that's far better than players getting frustrated with rolling into a zone. Oh wait, it's not working here Let me try over there. Oh, it's not working here. Oh, it's working back there running back It's just it's not an organic. It doesn't feel like a journey anymore. It doesn't feel like a leveling experience It just feels like you're chasing the dynamic spawns and sometimes you get them. Sometimes you don't Yeah, you guys know historically I've been like super super big server I always love the idea of you know, 12,000 people 10,000 people whatever on the server But I think as time has gone on actually I have shifted my opinion Like as I've gathered more information and seen seen sort of the results of dynamic response and giant servers Um at this point like I I hope through an alpha and beta test phase they they meticulously test and and find out Excuse me the the maximum amount of amount of people that the natural Uh vanilla azeroth can accommodate without dynamic response or increase increased respawn times Like you know, like it was two and a half or three thousand people back in the day Can those same respawn times without any changes accommodate 5,000 people 6,000 people Uh in in a reasonable way and if they can that's what it should be It should be the maximum This is what I hope it should be the maximum amount of people you can have on a server without changing anything And have it still be healthy and comfortable to play on. Okay. I completely agree. I completely agree Like honestly as van you mentioned it dynamic respawn is a band-aid on a gunshot wound The biggest problem the core issue is population 15,000 population servers. They're really cool in some sense, but at the same time that's now what azeroth was designed for Um beyond just you know, the server capacity. I mean there's just there's not enough mop points There's none of quest. There's none of anything in the game to accommodate that So if if they tune the population correctly the dynamic spawn issue becomes kind of a side note And it could be something they can adjust, you know a little bit But it shouldn't be their solution to the issue of overpopulation. Yeah, and something else to consider um Whenever wow released it's not like they had there wasn't the player base to just Drop 10,000 people and l14 has done morrow Durotar like I mean that like the game wasn't designed for that like they weren't expecting that right that wasn't even a thought to anybody um Now it's a little bit different because you have so many people congested in these zones So it makes the problem that you mentioned tips even worse If you think about it, uh, something that we did a bad job of We talk about dynamic respawns all the time on our own streams So we really didn't do a good job defining it. That's that's what we should have done uh with dynamic respawns the concept of dynamic respawn is I'm just kind of touched back on this The more people you have in an area the faster the respawn times are in order to accommodate for higher population So it's it's basically like a like, you know band-aid fix, right? It's like they're putting magic dust on something where the game sees it as like Oh, there's you know 10 times as many people in this area is what would be expected So now things are gonna spawn faster so that more people can get their quest done That's what dynamic respawns are so for anybody who doesn't know we should have mentioned that earlier. That's my bad And I want I want to like camera this home again. I say this like every time we meet up and talk about this in public Dynamic respawns are a really really good example of the implications of of how making one change results in and you have to Make several other changes to accommodate the first initial change So the so the first change they would make is having more than 3000 players Like if you have 10,000 people that's a change to what vanilla was and then to accommodate those extra people You have to make another change dynamic respawns or increased respawn timers or something like that It you get in this big, uh, you know like sort of like positive self-reinforcing cycle where it's just it's very hard to balance things like that Yeah, I agree and like Um, that's why honestly like when it comes to dynamic respawns again It's a band-aid avoided if we can fix the core issue population And if they do decide to amplify the respawns in any capacity make it a static accelerated multiplier Don't make it based on how many people are in a zone Because players aren't going to know how many people are in a zone with them And part of what skill is is responding to patterns if players can't predict patterns in the game It makes it difficult to to actually like perform in the game And uh, again, it's very frustrating to go into an area not knowing how fast mobs are going to come up I I think that's just it disrupts the pattern disrupts the flow and ultimately leads to a very frustrating leveling experience Right And this could be a thing dynamic respawns could be a thing that are it might not be so bad If the cap's not too high, but the higher the cap is the worse the problem gets And that's something else. I thought I should mention um So speaking of dynamic respawns dynamic respawns do change your leveling strategy a little bit Whether you want to do like solo leveling or group leveling stuff like that changes a little bit Stay safe. Do you actually do you want to go into that a little bit? Like what what are the differences between group leveling and solo leveling in that regard? Yeah, I mean there are so I'm not going to like dive in on the numbers because I think I'd probably like Put a lot of you guys to sleep but but definitely, um If you are a solo or two man or three man or five man in a leveling group the amount of xp each person in the group is getting changes There's an xp multiplier or a coefficient depending on how many people you have in the group and so Like you have to when you're when you're deciding what's an optimal group size of people to level with you have to factor in Kill speed. Okay. Do you have four people in the group as opposed to two people? You're killing things twice as fast But though you're killing things twice as fast Are you getting enough xp from the mob to make that worth it? Are there even enough mobs in the area to justify having a kill speed that high or are you going to kill stuff so fast? You're running out of monsters Um, and if that's the problem are there dynamic respawns to accommodate this this extra group size Like are you going to have respawns that are so fast that it's actually worthwhile to have a five a five man kill squad? Or are you just going to run out of monsters and it won't even be worth it? Um, this this is all stuff that like usually depends on respawn rates and dynamic respawns. Definitely. Um Yeah, the group size is Is a huge part of like the leveling meta depending on depending on what class you are. Are you are you a hunter? Are you a warlock? Are you like are you a warrior? Holy palette and leveling combo? Yeah, it all depends. It all comes back to two dynamic respawns once again Yeah, I think especially if you're rolling a melee class like a rogue or a warrior particularly warrior You do want to level at least until level 30. You do want to try to find at least a healer partner Possibly a group of three. I would say the ideal group is three because Some classes just they don't perform well solo some classes they unlock their potential at certain milestones like The 30 talent or the 40 talent stuff like that so When you're mapping out your leveling if you're practicing right now and you're trying to figure out What's the most optimal route for you? Should you be in a group? Should it be solo? It's definitely something that's done on a class by class basis depending on, you know, what talents you pick and stuff like that Um, but yeah, definitely melee classes roll with two other people if you can Unless you're a red palette, and then you can do whatever you want. You can do whatever you want no, um Yeah, I do think there there is a little bit of a misconception too about like How how different classes are in terms of leveling they I think one thing that's kind of been proven Time and time again is that hunters are very very very good levelers But I think something that is kind of a myth is the fact that warriors are bad levelers I think that leveling as a warrior is something that is It might not be as intuitive In terms of just like oh like for example the hunter it's like oh send your pet in shoot right and the pet takes all the damage You don't have to worry as much about downtime You just have to do Certain things a little bit differently as a warrior Something with paladin something with paladin as well But uh, I do think that's something that's kind of like a misconception. Well, uh, it's definitely easier as a group for a melee They're not as bad as people think too. So To kind of to kind of go from there, I kind of want to get into talents and skills a little bit and I get this question a lot particularly for paladins. I play paladin What is a good leveling talent build? and I think whenever you're coming up with your talents, there's different things that you can do I prefer to go straight down the retry generally speaking But as a general rule and I think this is the this is the same for all classes There's three things that you want to that you want to think of mainly and that's damage output damage input and downtime So whenever you're picking your talents, those are the three things that uh that you really want to look at like How does this affect that doing more damage taking less damage and how does this affect my downtime? So for example, uh, and again, I'm use paladin as an example because I think it's an easy thing to do um In the second tier you have improved seal of the crusader Seal of the crusader is something that you're not going to use very often While leveling because if you judge it then you're actually going to do less damage because you're not going to get the full benefit of the holy damage bonus From your seal of command prox or even righteousness prox By the time you kill the mob, it's better just to judge damage outright because you have eight seconds until you can judge damage again On the flip side of things so now actually that hurts your downtime because you're using mormanna. That's one It reduces your damage output But you can flip it and you can get points in deflection so you can parry and something that Not everybody knows this but one of you parry is a melee in vanilla. Wow, you get parry hasted You swing 40 faster So if you parry you're 100 damage reduction on a melee hit, right you're parrying it You completely block it or parry it And then on top of that you're swinging 40 faster. So now you're Reducing your damage taken which in turn reduces your downtime And then you're also increasing your damage output. So something like parry something like deflection is something that's very very very valuable While leveling and even in pvp as well. I like deflection a lot Do you guys want to go into skills a little bit? Yeah, I won't I really like what you said about downtime and stuff if there are situations where um If you look at a very small sample size like over the course of five minutes What am I trying to say sometimes killing monsters is slower But having less downtime is actually better than killing monsters faster and having a lot more downtime So if you look at a five minute sample size and you're killing monsters, you know super fast Uh, that's not really an accurate depiction of of your effective uptime or your or your effective downtime You want to look at like over the course of an hour like oh you might be killing monsters slower But I've less downtime And actually have more kills per hour or more effective uptime over the course of an hour And that's actually better Even if it might be like slower kills technically, but you're you're you're you're active more often. Absolutely downtime is a very big concept to always have in the back of your brain when you're leveling Absolutely, and the only thing I would add on to that and this is kind of a larger topic, but beyond just you know damage dealt damage taken also what server you're playing on like Um There's a couple of talents in the warrior tree particularly booming voice in the fury tree. It's the second tier talent Booming voice if you look at it at face value It just gives you a wider radius for your demoralizing shout and your battle shout on a pve server Pretty much useless to be honest. You're not going to get any benefit from it whatsoever It doesn't give you extra damage. It doesn't reduce your downtime and it doesn't give you extra deflection or parry However on a pve server will you where you will undoubtedly be encountering people out in the wild horde alliance Whatever the opposite affection is for you demoralizing shout breaks stealth So if you speck into that talent and you're in string will thorn veil and you feel like there's a stealthy around you You just pop demoralizing shout and you break their stealth and all of a sudden You're saving yourself a five-minute corpse run or a corpse camping spree because you speck into that talent So understanding what server you're on what zone you're in stuff like that And specking accordingly can also save you a lot of time Some talents might not be giving you more damage or preventing more damage taken directly But they save you downtime downtime Sorry indirectly right by uh, you know avoiding like deaths by other players and stuff like that You know speaking of like uh like a difference in talents while leveling on pvp or pve Speaking of paladins a little bit like let's say you're going deep into retribution Ret or uh, it's something that's kind of nice improve ret or something It's kind of nice at low levels But that might be a talent where you might want to take those two points and pull them out of there and put them Into like eye for an eye or something for example If you happen to get crit from uh from a mage from a caster you can do return damage to them Just so that's that's a pvp talent But even while leveling like you're gonna fight caster mobs and maybe if they create you'll do some damage there too So that's just uh, that's another good example of what tips was saying where like you'll you'll have different talent choices possibly If uh, you're leveling on a pvp versus a pve server Yeah, i'm shout out to monkey news by the way for giving me that booming voice tip, but yeah, there you go Absolutely even uh beyond talents just your general gameplay like if i'm leveling in a super contested zone Or just on a pvp server as opposed to a pve server If i'm like leveling and i'm below, you know 50 50 50 hp 50 man Like i'm kind of sweating because i know like i'm not going to be able to to fend off a gank And not only that like i'm sort of encouraging people to gank me because i'm an easy kill Whereas if if i was just leveling, you know by myself on a pve server I'm comfortable dipping down to 10 percent hp and 10 percent mana and then drinking up and then continue going Uh, you we really got to be aware of like any second if i'm if i'm getting attacked by a horde player or an alliance player How am i going to manage this i'm going to deal with this right And like even even the style of leveling now now that we're like talking about it like When you're on a pvp server you feel like everything you like you're in a race man Because if you're behind and you hit strangle thrown veil ashen veil Hill spread foothills and you're behind Oh my god, does it suck? But if you're in like the top five percent and you're only dealing with five percent of the enemy faction All of a sudden you've got a lot more freedom You know like stay safe said you can drink less often you can eat less often You can you know, you can grind faster. You can do quests quicker It's really important when you plan a pvp server to try to get out of the curve If you can so you don't fall behind and just get ganked over and over again Uh, something else that we should talk about we should talk about skills Um When to get your skills different thoughts about skills like I know in vanilla wow Getting your skills cost money So it's while you're leveling you you do have to kind of keep in mind like Do I have enough gold for this or silver times? Do I have enough gold silver for this? Do I want to get my mount at 40? Do I play a class that doesn't need to pay for a mount at 40 like a warlock or paladin? Um I know stay safe. You did have some thoughts on this if you wanted to go ahead and go into that Yeah, so for those of you that haven't played vanilla before in um in vanilla on classic wow You can actually get new skills every two levels. So every even level so every 22 24 26 28, etc You can you can go and train skills What I would suggest doing is looking up a skill database or something And acknowledging, okay I'm level 20 and actually the skills I can buy at level 22 24 and 26 aren't that good So it's kind of a waste of my time to go back and check in with the trainer and train them But at 28 man, I get some really good skills So I'm gonna I'm gonna plan that I'm gonna I'm gonna come back From wherever I'm questing and go back to town train my skills And uh and then go back out and keep questing I'm gonna route that in and know ahead of time when I want to train that will save you a ton of time on top of that You mentioned classes that that have to buy their mounts Everyone other than a than a warlock and a paladin, right? We have it really easy as fun Because it's 90 gold 90 gold is a lot by the time you're level 40 or around there Um, one thing you need to be very conscientious of is not training skills while you're leveling that you're not going to use so Yeah, what what I would do is look at your rotation. Look at look at town So you're going to train your your abilities are going to use for your general rotation Or survivability and then anything else anything else that's sort of like superfluous or isn't really assisting you level Very much. Don't train it training at 60 if you're ever going to train it training at 60 Don't worry about it while you're leveling save some money Yeah, I think for uh in the case of paladins Like, uh, you know seal command is one that uh, it does the same amount of proc damage Whether it's rank one or rank five So if I'm running low on gold while leveling then I won't get the the next rank of seal command I might get a the next rank of blessing of might or something for example just to save gold On top of that, of course, we have it easy because because we get free mounts at 40 Do you have anything on that tips? Yeah, I mean when it when it comes to mapping out your route for skills, it's super important, especially Like your 30s. I feel like the 30s are one of the biggest drop-off points when it comes to players Um, especially on pvp servers a lot of people just get frustrated with the game at that point Especially for horde side If you're in if you're leveling an stv You've got to go to grom goal every time you want to level and you've got to take the zeppelin back to orgrimmar every time You want to buy skills It's it's just incredibly inefficient to go back every two levels to get another, you know, rank in revenge Or in freaking shield block, you know, all that's irrelevant irrelevant while leveling So it's one of the easiest things you can do in preparation for classic just open up classic db Check out your classes abilities and mark off, you know, basically Predefine which levels you want to go back to the main city for to pick up your abilities After like level 20 ish level 30 ish You should really only go back a handful of times like five times Or so to get to get like major abilities But aside from that you don't need to be going every two levels back to orgrimmar back to iron forge back to wherever Because it's just a giant waste of time when you've got to take a zeppelin back When you've got to fly from, you know Stranglethorneville you got to fly back to stormwind and back to duskwood and walk down to the rebel camp. It's just absolute It's just a giant waste of time So small things like that can help boost your efficiency without taking away from like, you know Your experience the journey stuff like that. You don't have to min max hardcore But something like this can really do do a lot for you and save you a lot of time Yeah, I think uh, there's definitely like, you know, you were talking about stv is or really level 30 is uh, it's kind of like a Sticking point. There's a few points like that. Like I know This is actually a point that I have a lot of trouble with from 40 to 50 is like a very rough patch for me While leveling do you guys want to talk about what you guys do from 40 to 50? Yeah, I mean stacy if you want to go ahead but Uh, there are a lot of uh breadcrumb quests Knowing what I would say and and we can talk about this in another session or something. Um, there there's called breadcrumb quests And uh, so for example, this is one in desolates. This is a level 30 zone. But um, there's a breadcrumb This just one comes to mind There's there's a breadcrumb quest in stormwind near the mage tower In the mage district that if you quick not to cut you off. What he means by breadcrumb quest is It's like it leads you on a trail and you're going all over the place. Is what he's talking about exactly, um You pick up this question storm and it sends you to desolates and it unlocks like another 10 quests in desolates And so if you if you didn't know about this random quest in stormwind, you would have missed out on a ton of xp and desolates there are Probably 25 examples of super long breadcrumb quest chains all throughout vanilla. Wow one unlocks western plague lands It they're all over the place. Um, and so if you don't know about this beforehand You're gonna find you're gonna find yourself stalling out like 40 to 50. I always have trouble like 27 to 30 Uh 37 to 40 47 to 50 It's like those last two or three levels that I always struggle with uh, because I'm like, ah man But if you if you have really good breadcrumb quests, um, it's gonna help a lot that'll help uh, uh fill in that seam In the transition I agree and stacy if you mentioned a little bit as well Especially for those that have never played vanilla before There is no stay in one zone for like a certain level span and move on in vanilla Some zones they'll get you about three quarters of the level and then you'll run out of quests there That won't be unlocked for another two levels Which means you'll have to travel to another zone travel all over the world Do quests sporadically through various zones before you can unlock the next level zones in the original zone You started the next level quest in the original zone you started with So it's like you have to be very open to the idea of traveling It's something very for and if you play from cataclysm and beyond you're used to all of your quests being the location And now after patch 7.3.5 even more so you don't have to go anywhere because of the level scaling In vanilla, you've got to travel a lot and again mapping that out is is usually really helpful But personally from from 40 to 50 what I do, especially at 43 starting at 43 There's a couple of really really good grinding spots and once you hit level 40 as a warrior You've got your mortal strike. You already have your whirlwind at 36. You've got sweeping strikes That's when warrior like like as fen said earlier. That's when warrior leveling actually is really damn good You can grind really really well always pull two to three mobs at the same time Very little downtime because you're cleaving things down so fast. So I actually grind I grind from 43 to 51 in an ideal circumstance and I've got a secret spot that I use but Grinding is I mean I come from RuneScape classic So RuneScape classic was basically just a grind simulator you grinded like for 300 hours to get 99 attack 99 strike 9 defense So grinding is fun too. I mean, I don't think a lot of people agree but 43 to 51 I'm grinding in Teneris man all the way. Yeah, Teneris badlands is is uh good for the 40s too, I believe or the early 40s at least For me I so so again, I've talked about before I've always leveled in a more casual fashion trying to Do the trying to do all like all the dungeons and stuff is is that's that's what I really enjoy doing That's what I did the last time at least The last time I went from 40 to 50 I did a lot of dungeons. I did a lot of I did a lot of old man to try and get my weapons stone slayer and rock pounder drop off the last boss really good two-handed weapons I ran it a bunch actually and also there's a quest chain in old man that gives you a crazy amount of xp That's really good for the early 40s That's like I would say that's probably a must do like you don't have to do all the dungeons And it's probably not recommended or it's definitely not recommended to do all the dungeons if you're trying to level quickly It just depends on the experience you want to have right? Whatever you want to do is fine. It's there's tons of ways to play vanilla But I would say even if you're like speed leveling old man quest chain is is one of those that's like you That's like a can't miss. I think yeah, definitely zulfrock and old man if you're gonna do any of those are two heavy hitters right there Yeah, so yeah, I for me that that was a big deal and then also Just kind of going from there more dawn more dawn is another one that I did a lot of Because there's some pieces of gear in there that are good even a little 60 So exactly and like once you get your 40s That's when you really start to unlock like pre raid bis items like There are some items like you said maradon dude. There's items in maradon that will That are pre raid bis there's items Is it I'm not sure if it's pre raid bis, but it's a really good helmet the helmet off of the big Rock guy in maradon. I forgot his name. Um the the level 40 defense help like there's items like that that are Just great. Um as you're as you're leveling up and I think 40s Those are the dungeons that you should do repeatedly The zulfrock is a great one a lot of great quests there a lot of really good items there And uh, like I said oldam on dude stone slayer rock pounder those things will take you to 60 Basically, I mean with with very few upgrades between them. So Stay safe Do you want to go over some of the items because we're on the topic now Do you want to go over some of the items that are considered pre raid bis or close to That you get while leveling up? I know maradon has a few we mentioned that but do you want to do You want to talk about some of them? Yeah more than as a few. Um, there's the goblin boss, uh Tinker grizzled torque or something like that. He has the adventures focal sword for casters ramages and warlock He also drops the shield, uh, the the the blue shield of mp5 on it His his hyper tech buckler or something. I don't think that's the holy pally best in slot Prear best in slot shield or shaman one, but it's still very very good There's the ring that drops off of princess and maradon. What's it called the black stone ring? Yes, which is a melee dps best in slot in uh an upper black rock spire This is not 60 or it is 60. Sorry, but you have dalren's and stuff like that. That's a bit higher level Um, a lot of people will while they're leveling in their in their mid fifties will farm over and over and over again Lower black rock spire to get the gems to get to make the seal of ascension and also there's there's several pre raid bis items in there There's a hunter bow. I think in there um There's stuff all over the place like you said 45 to 60, uh, you black don't we're not even going to talk about black rock Depths there's so much in black rock depth And and getting off the topic of items that you can also like 50 plus especially start doing your attunements You can get you can get your your enixie attunement done by the timer 60 You can get your shadow forge key for black rock depths. You can get your skull immense key for skull immense You can get your attunement to the to the core quest done You can have all of these things ready to go by the timer 60 and then you're just everything is unlocked You're ready to go already Yeah Yeah, I think uh, it's just interesting how if you want to min max classic There's so many ways to do it right if you want to do a leveling But if you don't that's totally fine, too And that's that's one thing that I I want to make sure that that we uh, That we reiterate because I know for me, uh, you know, I'm somebody who you know the last time I leveled to 60 I I cleared all the content. I did all this stuff Uh, but at the beginning of the game I had fun like I mean, I just I just wanted to go in and have fun I pvp'd I I did all the dungeons like I said, I just did whatever I wanted, right? Uh, it wasn't until later on where it kind of ramped up and got more and more hardcore As I needed to in the end game Uh, yeah, no fun dance game. Yeah But it's it's fine, you know fun for for me is different than what fun is for somebody else for somebody else Fun might be I want to get world first Wow classic level 60. That's what fun for somebody else could be and that's totally cool uh, but for me fun was Going into the the mines in the southwest portion of uh of hills brad and Healing those alliance friendly NPCs while the horde are trying to quest and killing the horde And yeah I've done that I've told that story before but uh, yeah, like that's that's what was fun for me You know just harassing people But yeah, I think uh, I think there's something to be said about that for sure I agree. Yeah, just uh, just play the game. Do you guys want to talk about professions? What do you guys think about professions? Uh, yes, do you want do you want to start tips? Yeah, sure. So, um, so Uh, we talked a little bit about sustain and damage and input and stuff like that Obviously to sustain yourself to limit downtime You want to have food with you potions all the time and most importantly first aid First aid is the easiest secondary profession to level in my opinion really easy to get you'll be getting plenty of linen wool silk Etc. A mage weave on the way Definitely be leveling your first aid The other profession that I would recommend you pick up especially if you want to make money and especially if you're grinding beasts a lot Skinning man. Just skin get that leather throw it up on the auction house vendor. It doesn't matter You'll just make so much more money if you're skinning although that will slow you down a little bit when it comes to leveling so um, but yeah, I uh, I typically avoid the gathering professions during A big server launch and probably for classic as well Only because you're not going to be able to compete with people at mining nodes and herb nodes and stuff like that Unless those are also accelerated respawns. Maybe they are maybe they won't be we don't know in classic But uh, try to stay away from the gathering professions pick up first aid. I recommend skinning as well Those are those are the two big ones for me I actually I actually like the gathering professions while leveling. Um, I think skinning is big I think skinning is big and uh, if a lot of people are skinning and this is something you'll notice Uh mats on the auction house Probably will not sell for very much. Uh, there's going to be such a heavy influx of of materials That they might sell for just barely more than vendor price So in my opinion if you are going to get like a gathering profession or something, let's say you pick up herbalism Let's say you pick up mining You pick up mining and you you keep enough ore and bars to basically sustain yourself for later on And then you just vendor the rest for more gold you pick up skinning and you can just vendor the leather for more gold if you want Um, depending on what you want to change your your profession to so If I want to go engineering eventually I might go mining skinning And I get a bunch of bars a bunch of ore all this stuff for me Uh while leveling and I stockpile it and then whenever I switch to engineering I have a stockpile of materials in order to level my engineering Or I can just vendor whatever I want and switch to whatever I want. Let's say I have skinning I want to do that with leather working, right? So and I could drop skinning if I want to I probably if you get skinning leveled up I probably wouldn't recommend dropping it, but there's options there and that's again, there's always options. It's how do you want to play? Um That's just that. That's just what I would say. That's what I would say for sure Yeah, that's all good. I mean it comes down to like how do you want to play the game? Do you want to you want to do professions do them if you I would say if you want to level more quickly? It's like tip said I would personally say Get first aid ignore everything else Get first aid ignore everything else literally everything else skinning herbing. I ignore all of it To be as fast as possible Now I would also here's a tip if you do want to have professions um, I mean I say that for speed like my gosh Have you ever tried to uh make a linen a linen bolt like you sit there and it takes like 10 seconds To make one linen bolt if if you're trying to level enchanting there's no way you are going to have gold for your mount at 40 There is no way it costs so much to level a lot of these professions Um enchanting is really expensive just to reiterate. It is. Yeah That's what I You're a paladin you could afford it man. That's all I got. I got lucky. Yeah, it doesn't matter Um, but I would say if you do want to level these professions always be conscientious of of your time Um, if you're going to be making your bandages or if you're going to be making bolts of of of wool Do it while you're on a boat do it while you're waiting for a boat. Um If you're trying to level your cooking on the boat drop a campfire Cook your stuff on the boat. Oh, you always want to be making the most of your time That's that's how you want to be looking at this stuff Yeah, for sure for sure The max is yo, yeah, I mean it's on the boat Campfire on the boat dude s'mores on the boat. Yeah Um Let's see if we uh We we we touched on it a little bit, right? You mentioned brd and there's Uh, and and maybe brd is something that will will delve into real deep later on but uh You know talking about, you know leveling up and and doing things while leveling brd has a there's two attunements that run through brd and that's enixia and mc And stay safe was saying that you could even get those before level 60 And your shadow forks key get the key also. Oh, there you go. Yeah shadow forks key too. So brd is is an instance It's a dungeon that's very very valuable to do while leveling If you're trying to be like ready to go as soon as you hit level 60 There's also several items in there whether that's uh, whether that's Hand of justice hand of justice is arguably a best in slot melee trinket Almost to the end of the game in vanilla. It's something that's really really good Uh, there is there's different items in there. There's patterns in there the uh The repair bot schematic Uh is like halfway through the instance on the ground you can go in there and you pick it up and uh for your engineers Who you want repair bots for your dungeons? So I mean there's a lot there's a lot to do and brd for sure And check this out if you go in there with all the quests you load it up You do it one efficient run or one one or two efficient runs with all the quests We're talking like a level and a half or two levels of just straight quest xp. It is juicy. There's so much xp Like I I save that to the mid fifties or late fifties and it's a big it's a big bonus bonus xp Yeah, and then also like the fire resistance gear and uh There's there's just so much to do and brd there's so much to do So that's that's one that we'll probably delve into a little bit more Precisely uh in a later classic cast. I would really like to talk about that a little bit more Um Yeah, let's see. Uh, what what else okay, so um looking at our notes here um Stay safe you wrote this down you said when to loot and when not to loot Do you want to talk a little bit more? Yeah, someone asked me about this morning on my stream and I said uh, I hope that I Oh, you cut out Yeah, yeah, someone asked me that on my stream earlier today and I said wait I'll answer it on the classic cast today. There you go. So, um, we're talking about leveling you're out in in a forest killing mobs and you're uh, let's say, um You don't really need anything from this monster and as you're killing it It's running away from you like let's say you're this is more of like a caster problem You're a hunter a warlock or a mage or something and the monster is running away from you It runs this way and you're trying to go this way Are you going to go are you going to take 10 or 15 seconds to go out of your way? to go to go loot this thing for like maybe it's like it's pelt or like five copper and I will typically say no if the monster is just like completely out of the way and it's like annoying to go loot I will just not loot it. That's another one. It was like super min maxi things um Now someone's going to say like that's the monster that's going to drop like the staff of jordan like Okay, well, then that's that's the way it goes Yeah, that's the way it goes because at that point like it would be really lucky if you got that is what you're saying But just the the like adding on those seconds at a time it turns into minutes turns in the hours is basically what you're saying Yeah, and it's almost better just to rush to 60 like I know a lot of people try to make gold as they're leveling In my opinion like just rush to 60 then you can do whatever the heck you want man Like you can go back everything you grind you'll be grinding it 10 times faster Um in general like you'll just you'll be able to go places that you weren't able to before because you're high level stuff like that People will be less likely to mess with you in world pvp if you're like 60 and they're 40 Um, I have always felt like it's almost more efficient just to get to 60 And then kind of go back and level professions Well, sorry go ahead. I thought you're done I don't know like mathematically if it pans out, but it seems like it does yeah for me I see it as a sort of thing where If you rush to 60 right and this is my personal opinion if you rush to 60 Then you're only going to be playing with everybody else who rush to 60 And so the player pool is going to be smaller because once you get there you're going to do dungeons Eventually you're going to get into raids. There's stuff that you need to do. Wow. It's a very social game. It's an mmo rpg It's supposed to be and it's something that You need other people to be able to to get the full you don't have to but for the full breadth of the content To get the everything that the game Provides to you. You're going to need to play with other people So if you go too fast, there's not going to be as many people to play with Um, so yeah, I mean to me it's just like you can play however you want. Um I think for me personally what I plan on doing is I want to have two characters Uh, I will play one character slow and just kind of level up nice and easy You know more casually and do all the dungeons and do all the little stuff that I like to do And then on the flip side of things, uh, I would like to rush a pvp character straight to 60 That's what I want to play both ways whenever classic comes out I do want to throw this in there if you rush to 60, you're right You're not going to be able to find you know an uber's group or something like because there's just not going to be enough people probably But if you're if you're 60 very early you can make so much gold So much gold just from having all the gold farms yourself And I'm talking I'm not even talking mafia mafia true, but herb farming And and there's so many ways to make gold if you're one of the first people there and you have no competition for the nodes and everything True one of the mistakes I'm in, uh, you know, I talked about like I did enchanting before right one of the while enchanting Namely disenchanting was a was a decent way to make gold while I was level 60 I I tried to level my enchanting as high as I could for my level Every time right or wherever. I was that I just wanted to cap my enchanting And that cost me a lot of gold and also I was leveling so slow That I wasn't one of the first people on the server with like crusader enchant So by the time I got the crusader enchant and you have to camp that that uh npc in I believe it's in moon glade that To get the rod oh for the rod, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, exactly So like it ended up being a huge mess and I ended up losing a ton of gold from enchanting and I didn't make it back until Months in maybe maybe three months in I don't know Uh, it was a while But if you if you happen to be fortunate enough to be one of the first enchanters on the server with like a crusader enchant or Something along those lines Then you can make a lot of gold and you can really monopolize the economy in that sense, you know supply and demand Everybody wants it. One guy's got it. You're gonna make a you're gonna make bank. Honestly, right? So Yeah, yeah Um, hey, do you guys want to talk about class quests? Which class quests do you do? What advice do you have for people because in vanilla wow for those of you that don't know every class has There's a huge sense of class identity Every class is a bunch of unique quests that they do that give special items or uh, it's crazy So what do you guys think about it? um for warriors Do your level 10 quest that gives you a really good weapon and it gives you defensive stance do that one Avoid your level 20 brutal armor quests. Those quests are so ridiculous and They're not worth it at all. Basically Level 30 do your berserker stance whirlwind axe quest And then pretty much do your level 50 quest the fall and hero of the horde quest The problem with that one is it's not there at launch At least uh, if they're going with progressive questing and stuff like that It's not there at launch. So you usually depending on when you start leveling and how fast you get to 60 you miss it But uh, yeah, I would say I would say those are the ones that really target While leveling for uh for paladins Uh, there's really one quest namely that uh, I would say You don't even have to do it. It's it probably slows down your leveling process but it's an item the weapon that you get from it is almost like iconic and that's vergan's fist and Vergan's fist is a weapon that a lot of people love it. It's a great weapon It doesn't get replaced until level 29. You get course maker level 29 At least as far as like having the best weapon that you could have I would say it doesn't get replaced till then Because you can actually get it at level 20 Technically and I believe it's a level 31 weapon. So it's it's a really really strong weapon For the level, but it's a 3.2 speed. There's some there's some quirky things about it Uh, if you want to do that and you're going for more like the fun route You want to do a lot of damage and stuff like that. It's probably faster if you do it the other way, but otherwise Vergan's fist is is definitely a good weapon doing that quest chain to get that There's also the quest where you get the holy mitestone from sunken temple That's one that I wouldn't say you have to do a lot of people like to do that one But sunken temple is just kind of it's it's very frustrating to do if you don't have a group that Knows how to do it and how to Navigate it because it's very do not do not hug sunken temple. Yeah, it's it's really hard to navigate It's a it's a really cool dungeon, but it's really hard to navigate You could plug it if you want but don't plug it with the intention of hey like we got to do this fast We're gonna plug it expect to be in there for a while Yeah Yeah It's a great dungeon though. I like it's really cool. Yeah, but you just got to know what to expect whenever you go in Yeah, I don't know just I know I don't know if you guys have done that dungeon on retail, but oh my god They got it. It's so it's so disappointing. Really. Yeah, it's it's just like the upper level with the dragons There's nothing else to it now. It's it's really really. Yeah, they took everything else. That's wild Yep. Yeah, I didn't know that. Um, I did it earlier today. It's terrible. Um I'm still thinking about it. I'm really Any anyway, uh For warlocks, you know, you get your imp at level one to level two you get your void walker mandatory at level 10 Your void walker you you and your void walker your boys all the time you and the void boy It's you guys together chilling and taking care of business Charles. Yeah, rest in peace. Um And then uh, there's a level 28 quest where you get where you get your your dread mage hat that hat is so good It's gonna last you a super long time that hat dread mage hat At level, uh, there's a couple quests you would skip. I skip the fell hunter quest Like I skip the succubus quest. The succubus is level 20 fell hunter is level Is level 30 I get the the orb of dar or hill, which is level 38 quest. Look at the charlos in the chat. Oh, You uh, you get your orb of dar or a dark or a hill level 30 I always skip the the enchanted gold blood row, which is another level 30 quest just because I'm skipping the quests that You don't really benefit a lot and There I consider them I call them like fedex quests where you're just like running all over the place Talking this guy took go talk to that guy talk to this guy There's not you're not doing anything other than just running around talking to people I tend to skip those quests. You gotta you get you uh, you get your mount at 40 and then, uh, that's pretty much it until 60 Right Yeah, so warlocks have a lot of class quests because you have so many pets and stuff that you have to get There's a lot of them. There's a lot of them. Yeah a lot And then and then of course every every class had a class quest added Uh, what patch was it 1.10? Do you guys remember the level 50 class quest where you actually have to go into sunken temple and get the Get the troll feathers. Yeah, I think that's I think that's the holy mitestone one for the for the paladins Yeah, I think that's the one so so if classic well follows an actual vanilla timeline like a content release timeline Those quests should not be in the game when classic wow is out. It'll be over a year until those quests are out well over a year Yeah, that's a good point because aq doesn't come until like right about a year after release I believe like a little a little over a year after release So right Yeah, very uh, very interesting very interesting for sure. Um Is there anything else that you want to talk about? But I want to talk about um, is there anything else that you had that you wanted to bring up? Because we might be able to go into our q&a here pretty pretty soon I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, I want to hear what people have to say Dude, you just got a sub from gainzilla tier one. Oh, I did gainzilla. Thank you for the sub man. Appreciate that, dude Um, you want to start the q&a man? Yeah real quick guys, uh, you know while we saw people here And then we're gonna have more people in the q&a, but I wanted to go ahead and mention before then to the stream If you haven't already please please please Follow stay safe stay safe tv on youtube and on twitch and then on twitter He's stay safe warlock. You can see it right right right down right down there under his under his uh Camera and then same thing with tips tips out baby on every platform for me It's s fan tv on every platform as well So if you guys have if you guys have not followed us yet, I would very much appreciate that and I think they would as well um, so Going into q&a and tips will be back in just a minute, but going into q&a If you guys want to tweet at us hashtag classic cast tweet at us Or we're going to read stuff out of the chat Uh, I had one that I got a while ago, but I want to wait till tips gets here too because it's a big one But uh, yeah, let's go ahead and let's go ahead and read some out of uh Out of the chat here first to start off Well, I see one right here from dudas dudas too. Uh, what aq you're after release What do you think people will do for your when leveling is done? Well, I mean if classic falls an actual vanilla content release timeline it would start with um It would start with molten corn enixia and then a month later You would have mordon added then a couple months later. You would have diarmul added Then a couple months after that you would have black ring layer and then a couple months after that you would have zolgorub Uh, and in between all of that you're having battlegrounds being added. You're having like there's there's a lot to do your ranking There's a ton to do. Um, yeah, don't don't worry about having a lack of content before aq comes out Seriously, there is a ton to do you're gonna feel like you have too much to do um for sure, um Yeah, I mean, I think I think you hit the nail on the head. Uh, for sure. I mean, there's there's always something going on. Um Next one, this is from zahedem How do you feel about retpal and dps you play in your own guild? But you think people will refuse to get with you because it's not optimal I think the big thing with playing ret is You have to prove yourself. It's it's something that's it's not really a spec That's easy to play despite what people think because you really got to go You've really got to go out of your way to figure out everything that you can do and and even if you You have to play it with a min max mentality Without playing in a min maxi guild necessarily Uh, you know a guild that's min maxi might take you It's not really gonna you're you're never gonna not clear the content Because you have a boomkin or a rat or something like that in your raid If there's 39 other people on the raid too, you know If you're not clearing content and you blame on one of those guys then you're not really You're you're heavily mistaken, I would say but um, but no for sure It's not something that's necessarily optimal dps But I think especially in the early patches. There's there's a little bit less of a difference there Red does scale very well In pvp with gear, but in pve you still scale, but Some of the other classes especially like, you know, you talk about fury warriors and rogues Rogues have a higher floor Fury scales better But uh fury definitely like scales like super hard, but good enough to be viable. Yes Is it optimal? No if you want to be like super optimal bring 12 fury warriors, you know Yeah, absolutely Bring 20 This is a really good one rushing and I see people are very concerned about this and probably rightly So rushing to 16 putting professions aside, how are you going to get gold for your mount at 40? So getting gold for your mount at 40 starts at level one You are making a bunch of conscious decisions You're you're not buying stupid things from other people or buying stupid things on the auction house You are only training certain specific talents. You're saving all your guilt all your gold Well, one of the huge gold sinks in vanilla actually while leveling Is uh buying food and water like it really is by the time you hit 40 You'll have probably spent 20 or 25 gold on food and water. It's very expensive. So I guess what I'm trying to say is you should um try to become friends with a mage and Or just play a mage First thing you do when you log in for the day say hey, hey mage bro. Can I have some food and water? It will actually leeching off leeching his food and water will save you a ton of gold like it actually will Yeah You're always making smart conscious decisions Another thing I would look for when you're leveling if if you're uh, you know trying to make gold is I find that beasts tend to drop a lot of items that vendor really well Grinding beasts if you're ever going to grind grinding beasts because beasts tend to drop Like three or four different types like like a pelt a claw a fang Uh, you know a tail or something like that They drop several gray items that stack typically up to five or ten So you can you can hold a lot of them in your bags and you just vendor them you just vendor them So it's sort of uh economy proof because you don't have to really deal or or trade or interact with other people It's just it's just a straight cash gold farm. Um beasts are really good for gold farming I think while you're leveling and we're talking, uh, you know vultures owls wolves hyenas in desuas are a popular one Um, things like that I would say spiders spiders are really big because they drop spider silk And spider silk vendors for a lot and it sells for a lot in the auction house depending on when you want to put it up there And also welps if you kill welps they drop flame sacks which are used for a lot of different like viruses potions and stuff like that Um, those actually go for a lot too because those are really really desired at the end game. So definitely recommend that Uh, I like this quest or this question You mentioned grouping while leveling is having a group consistently faster or is it only for mid to late game? Since most speedrunners solo does that indicate solo is faster. This is from super du Uh, I don't think it's necessarily, uh And this is something that stay safe talked about a little bit earlier But like it's not something that's necessarily consistently faster But it's it's different Leveling styles based on how the server is set up, right? If there's going to be dynamic response It's going to be a little different as opposed to like the traditional exactly how vanilla was stay safe Do you want to do want to break that down a little bit more? Yeah, I mean, I would say under like normal vanilla while circuitry if there's no crazy dynamic response Um, I would say probably solo or duo leveling is is is optimal I think that when you have like I said assuming no crazy dynamic response if you have four or five people Yes, you're killing things faster. But actually like the benefit you get let's see you four people and you add you out of fifth Your kill speed does not increase to such a rate that it's worth Losing a portion of xp to that fifth person And also you're going to be killing things so fast that you will run out of mobs to kill You're gonna you're just you're gonna smoke through everything. You're gonna run out of stuff to do It's not it's not worth it Now, um, there are some examples Let's say you're in a super packed area and you have to do a quest where you have to kill Um, 10 wolves. There's sort of two types of quests. I mean a lot There's there's quests where you have to kill 10 wolves or you have to kill 10 wolves and loot, uh 10 wolf fangs So if if you're let's talk like theory here leveling theory if you're um If you have to kill this 10 wolves Really big picture It's not it's not that bad to be in a group of five people because you're all getting credit But if you have to loot if you have to actually loot 10 wolf fangs Um, you're actually competing against your own group members for the drops when you think about it So having having more people like that it actually is often a detriment I would say one or two people is always optimal Uh, depending on your class that like like for a warlock or a mage or a hunter one person If you're a warrior or a paladin or something like that two people probably, um, That's what I would say. Yeah Yeah, this is kind of a very specific example, but in particular the What's it called? Oh, not lost in battle the other mancred quest. I forgot it was called. It's in the barons It requires you to loot 60 bristleback tusks or quillboard tusks Um, that quest is available at level 14 And the problem is those guys are like level 18 to 20 So what ends up happening is a lot of people pick up that quest and they're like, oh my god I should group up with people to do that quest because I'm four levels lower And they end up spending like five hours until everybody gets their 60 tusks Because there's no shared loot table there. So yeah, I definitely agree be very careful with with, uh, Quests that require to loot mobs and and consume my hatred. Correct. Yeah, just be careful of that one. Yeah See, I've never I've never leveled, uh, horde like that. So like I I didn't even know that's insane Do you have to get 60 of them? Yeah, you have to get 60 and it's it's a trick because they give you the quest at 14 and the mobs are basically level 20 And it's like so your natural instinct is oh my god I need to group up for this quest you group up and you end up spending like Five six hours literally until everybody has their tusks. It's insane. Brutal. That's brutal Uh, jaron's brought up a good question a little bit earlier Uh, do you think that due to the each player being overall better nowadays and we know more about the game That will discover new and better ways to play classes I think I think that's a really good point jaron's a lot of people say that like Actually tips you I didn't get to watch it yet, but didn't you just post a video about this? Yeah, I post a video called the myth of vanilla theory crafting. I I'm very much a believer in that like yeah I feel like there's still a lot left to learn I feel like especially at the very high end It seems like whenever I talk to really really high end players. They all tell me the same thing They're all saying it's not done yet. We're still figuring stuff out. We're not sure about this We're not sure about that and because most people play vanilla or you know The the modern the understanding of vanilla we have today is based on Private server values a lot of those values are wrong and some of them Like the iron folk proc rates on rest in peace and stall radius was like at 20% When in reality, it's probably closer to 2% That kind of stuff throws things out the window plus boss values damage value, you know We don't we have we don't know So much How can we say theory crafting of vanilla is done if most of the theory crafting was done based on fake or or fabricated values? Yeah, and I'm so glad you bring this up during this because it's something I like I feel really strongly about this too um Because and and like you said tips I I I don't really speak in definites a lot of times Because I I don't think a lot of this stuff is definite. Like I say well like so far I think this But constantly working constantly testing churning the bottom of the barrel like well, let's let's tweak this. Let's do that Let's do this to kind of figure out like what what works out the best and I think that's something that theory crafting any sort of research like that it never stops Like you're never like this is it. We're done here for two reasons one because as One is because like there's the the whole private server deal right but two is because The kind of person that theory crafts like this can't help themselves And like I know I'm like that where like I'm always just like Okay, I think I have the answer, but I'm just going to go test everything again Right, just to go see just to go do this just go that like you'll see me in classic You'll see me sitting outside iron forge all the time like just auto attacking a healer while they heal themselves And like I'm like running down like proc rates and like, okay Well, if this does this is this percent of my damage and looking at my my damage meter add-on or whatever it'll look at Everything like that. Like I just that's just what I do Yeah, I think that's a really good question Gerunds I think that they're theory crafting never stops I think never stops and people are going to find out new things The iron foe example is really really good Because a lot of people like I know whenever I first started making videos I saw a video of somebody saying that iron foe is like the best DPS weapon for a rep palette and I was like, it's What? Hello? Like it doesn't make any sense But it's because of like, you know private server memory basically, you know, just stuff being You know not really having a lot of definites on private servers over the years and again That's something that we're all really excited about is to have like an actual Authentic or as close to authentic version of vanilla as possible So it'll be really interesting. It'll be really interesting I I agree with I agree with everything you guys just said about you never stop learning But I also want to sort of like give a warning. I'm going to be like that guy um I feel pretty confident saying that I've actually encountered a lot of a lot of these people that say You know, I'm going to be the best prop palette and ever and I'm going to be tanking every raid I'm going to be main tanking every raid and no one else has done it right and I'm going to be the one that does it right I'm going to revolutionize prop palette gameplay And the reality is if you go into classic thinking that I think you'll probably be disappointed Or if you want to revolutionize rep palette and gameplay and be the the If you're expecting to be the top dps of every raid always, you'll probably be disappointed Right, um or or boomkins or elemental shamans or things like this even as warlocks warlocks Warlocks are like the worst dps class there is in molten core. Like it's terrible. So You I I think Be grounded you can try to change things and you can always improve things but also Don't don't get your hopes up. I guess um There there is something to be said for the literal 14 years of theory craft that have that have been put into this game A lot is known, but there is definitely stuff that isn't known Yeah, and and I think it's you know, it kind of goes back to how the game was designed blizzard never designed All the specs to to have equal output and pve pvp leveling, etc The game was designed on a very situational and conditional basis So don't think of it as you know always my class viable or not think of it as what does this spec do well? Or you know in this situation, you know, how does it perform and stuff like that? You'll be much less disappointed that way and um I do just want to give credit to the original blizzard developers like One of the reasons why vanilla is so difficult to theory craft in comparison to the modern game This the items are just not streamlined Dude, nothing is streamlined in this game like the trinkets trinkets and vanilla have such unique prox and this you can tell each one was designed By by somebody who is actually designing it. They're not just some stat template thrown across all these trinkets and You know, they're all basically stat sticks. Um everything in vanilla is so situational and and it's it's very People would call it clunky, but I would say very carefully crafted and as a result it just makes things hard to figure out It's not intuitive You can't just plug and check formulas you can but it just takes a lot longer And and you know, obviously takes a long time to test things because it takes so long to level and do all the stuff In vanilla, so that that also I guess contributes to the reason why we probably haven't figured everything out yet Yeah, for sure for sure um This is something we've we've talked about before actually no, I don't I don't want to get into that just yet Uh, just one more is asking a question. How do you feel about increasing the stack caps? He's talking about like the materials like stacking to 200 instead of 20 Uh, this is something that a lot of people bring up these conveniences like the collections tab or Uh increasing the essentially indirectly increasing the amount of bag space that you have right And bag management is something that I think is is a very important part of the gameplay Like I know, you know, we we talk to our tank friends and You know the the tanks who are doing everything they can just for example. I'm just using tanks for example They literally to each Every single specific slot There's something to put there like they're completely capped out every raid. I know for me as a rep palette And I'm very much the same way a lot of people joke about my bags Whether they're filled with trash or whether they're filled with raid mats and potions and all this stuff That's that's a part of the gameplay to me. Um, I I think that's something that is very important and whenever you Uh, whenever you make it to where you can put more mats on a single character It actually does affect the economy in a sense too because uh, you can hoard mats even easier In a sense, it's not not 100 but it's in the same vein is like being able to Create guild banks, right and one of the side effects of of guild banks being in vanilla is people would make One character guilds with guild banks and they would basically increase their own bank space This is the same sort of idea with that specific example That's why stuff like that should uh, in my opinion not be changed I agree bag management is a skill 100 percent. I agree Um Yeah, it's it's a very formative part of uh, the vanilla experience It contributes to the the the sense of realism you have it definitely has economic implications like esfond says I mean it one it increases the amount of gold you can hoard And also it increases the amount of gold you can farm per hour if you're farming gold Uh, who here is a hunter a warlock that's farmed morad on, you know every hour hour and a half You have to hearth out the night those point Vendor your stuff run back down if you didn't if you could just stay there all day, maybe Uh, your gold per hour be, you know, maybe 1.5 times what it normally is Um, yeah, that's huge implications. Absolutely not in my opinion Um This guy doge. I like his question. Okay. Go ahead. Uh, how big of a chance is it that blizz will implement dynamic respawn rates in vanilla? What do you guys think? How big of a chance Like it's it's hard to say because like we don't we don't really have any like legitimate like, uh, data or Like real research to go off of right so it's it's really hard to say in that regard um Man that that's hard to say to put like a number on it. Um I don't know. I I think it's definitely one potential solution Uh, that they might see as a as a solution But again, it based on like their population size how effective that solution is if population size is a little bit bigger It won't be nearly as bad if it's way bigger than it could be something that's kind of frustrating to have to deal with Um, or something that'll that'll affect the gameplay in a way that they might have not intended um That'll be very interesting. That'll be very very interesting to see I will definitely say if they're going to go down that route of increasing spawn timers or uh, or sorry I guess decreasing spawn timers or adding dynamic respawns. I I hope I really really hope that they don't Choose to do that unless they have extensive beta or alpha testing with that or they have stress tests and everything I don't want them to just be like, oh, yeah, this looks good. Let's roll it out Like that's that is not how you should do dynamic response. Right, right What would you prefer for the first couple of days dynamic respawns or sharding in the starting zones? Which to me if I had to like put both of those on like a piece of paper and say Which one of these is less vanilla? In terms of giving an authentic vanilla feel Sharding is less vanilla to me and based on that I would say dynamic response Yeah, me too I agree wholeheartedly. Yeah. I uh, there was one question. I wanted to get to oh, sorry. Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead I was going to shard sharding in my opinion never ever has any place in vanilla. Wow. I mean there's something like totally Antithetical to vanilla wow to the vanilla experience like being in a zone and not being able to see other players that are in the same zone Like that that that should never be the case. I'd rather Just be able to see everyone and have mobs responding twice as fast But know that I'm seeing everyone else that's in this virtual world That contributes like the sense of the sense like vanilla wow is it's definitely a game But it's also like you're totally just immersing yourself in a different world and I think sharding really sharding really Decreases that effect. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, yeah sharding not good um icsu icsu zuxis Asked this question earlier. I actually lost it in the scrolling I'm trying to scroll through and obviously we can't get that every question And I want to go to the twitter question as well for the people who followed us on twitter and are interacting with us on twitter as well but um icsu zuxis was was bringing up the concept of 1.13 and doing post-nax progression. We've talked about that in the past I'm sure in a q&a. We've mentioned it before but With every single episode we we our audience increases as more and more people coming in and uh watching classic cast and uh you know just just uh To get our opinions on something like even if we may have mentioned it in the past I think to kind of touch on how we feel about 1.13 and post-nax content Do you guys do one of you guys want to start? Yeah, I'll take it. I am 100 anti Post-nax content 100 anti post next content. I think if you want new content There's an entirely new expansion called burning crusaded. There's like 15 new dungeons like 10 new raids. It's freaking crazy It's off the chain. You can 10 more levels. Dude is bonkers, man I think that if you add new content, I mean, there's different ways to do it But like the biggest thing that comes to mind Um is is power creep. I mean players respond to incentive and so to incentivize Doing and progressing through and farming new content. You have to incentivize players to do it And what what do players? What how do you incentivize players to do things in? Wow? Well, you give them cool gear you give them gear Um and power creep is already like Like honestly tier three is really really insanely good. It's crazy good. It's it's like depending on your class It's like 10 or 15 percent less less powerful than tier four Like that's like it's almost as good as burning crusade gear. It's crazy strong And so so to imagine gear like that Um in vanilla wow, I think that would be really bad. Um, the other thing is I think if they start adding content, um post-nax that decreases The likelihood or the chance of them eventually adding to classic tbc, right? Okay, probably Okay Uh tips you want to you want to give your opinion on it? Yeah, sure Um, for me, I'll never say no to new content so long as they preserve the original servers But I don't see any scenario where blizzard looks to themselves and says Oh, yeah, instead of you know giving players this thing that we've already made that we don't have to spend any money on We're going to go spend millions of dollars on development qa marketing, etc To implement some some features that probably already exist in tbc back into vanilla so players can enjoy it I don't know. I just don't think it's as marketable. I don't think it's as profitable as profitable for blizzard You have tbc there a lot of people do want tbc You could even argue that the demand for tbc is on par with the demand for vanilla Um, I just I do not see the situation where blizzard says Let's let's make more content But at the end of the day, I wouldn't say no to it ever so long as they preserve the original servers At the end of the day It would be kind of cool to see blizzard do patch 1.13 If only symbolically it shows that they're interested in developing that kind of content again that kind of hardcore mmo content again That would be something nice to see Although, uh, there's obviously problems like stay safe, so the power creep and stuff like that But I just don't see it happening. I want to throw this in there real quick I see people saying like after next what's there to do people going to get bored if they let's say they don't add classic tbc I I promise you I guarantee you if after next if blizzard for the next 50 years were every two years For the next 50 years if every two years they were to just release a new fresh Classic server people would play that literally until the end of time There will always be people wanting to play a fresh classic server offer legitimately by blizzard There will always be something to do. Yeah Yeah, for sure So for me Uh, and I've talked about this before burning crusade is my favorite expansion Uh, it's it's my favorite period of time in the game, you know, I use I use expansion and period of time in the game interchangeably So it's it's my favorite. I like it more than vanilla. Just just a hair, right? Just a little more than vanilla With that being said I would absolutely love the idea of doing both And I don't want to go I mean, I'll I'll try and give a quick rundown of what I'm thinking Like if they have their, you know, the servers they go to 1.12 And then they add a set of servers that you could transfer to you can copy to And this is these are preserved 1.12 servers and people can create new characters there if they want they can do whatever they want over there But you're basically taking the population of people who want to play 1.12 forever and you can put them on a server or a subset of servers Then you take the original servers or I mean, this is interchangeable. I guess you can take the original servers And add 1.13 you can add 1.14 and so on Or you can take those original servers and and progress them to burning crusade And then you can set and again interchangeable Another set of servers where you do the opposite of that Right where you can again copy to there and then play through that I think that would be really cool just because the concept of Seeing things that you you were teased at or you were teased In vanilla wow caverns of time hygel carousel I mean Ateesh for example, I mean literally the the the nax legendary takes you to carousel And carousel has been I mean it's like all these things were in the game in vanilla I think it would be really really cool and especially with carousel Now I don't know how how feasible it is the development stuff like I'm not the one who makes those decisions But I think from from a fan Perspective from someone who's a fan of warcraft someone who's a fan of wow I would really love the opportunity to be able to do Post next content and also play burning crusade because I love arenas. I love almost everything about burning crusade. I mean every every vanilla has its problems burning crusade has its problems But I really really enjoyed both and I think that I would if it's done the right way I think I would really really enjoy Like post next content and you know old them old them is another thing There's so many things right that they could put in you could potentially put in like five different raid tiers and Like like you said power creep is going to be a big issue with that And I think the way to address power creep is to almost set like a hard cap on your on your item levels, right? Because here's the here's why power creep and vanilla gets uh spikes real hard at the end I think the power creep is good. I think it's a good thing in games as long as it's approached the right way In nax not only do you have like a big power spike in terms of item level more itemization points more stats They also kind of learned how to optimize gear a little bit better Like your nax gear is actually very similarly itemized to burning crusade gear Yeah, that's true. So not only are you getting more stats on your gear You're also getting stats that matter like for example the holy paladin like the tier three set for holy paladins It's literally like stamina intellect spell crit Uh, and I believe a little bit of mana per five like no spirit. No like no no wasted stats I'm plus healing excuse me plus healing as well. Uh, but it's like no no wasted stats essentially Um, whereas like in the early sets like It's it's not quite like that So I think uh, yeah, I think uh, I think those are all things to consider. I kind of went all over the place I was trying to uh, condense that as much as possible But um, yeah, I would like to go to twitter. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead and I'd like to go to twitter after this There's one more question. I see and uh, I anticipate that my answer is like probably gonna make people angry I'm gonna stir the pot here. The question is is from like lair Reg lair z do you think they will make uh till wrath servers because that's what they've defined as classical experience So pretty much like are you asking do you think that they will not go past classic wrath? Like they won't do classic cat or a classic mop and honestly, my opinion here is um I'm trying to be like like as intellectually honest as with with this as I possibly can I think that someone's desire to replay wad classic wad is just as legitimate as And valuable and valid as my desire to replay classic vanilla. See you later. I really do No, it's fine. Uh I don't like well as a drainer. I quit like I I really disliked it I think I think the expansion sucked, but if someone did like it, like I'm not going to tell them that their opinion is wrong Um, they they they're in a similar predicament that I'm in Um, they want to play a version of the game that is no longer legitimately offered And if they want to play it, they have to play on a private server. He's right. You're technically right You're technically right. I wouldn't play it right, but I'm not going to tell someone else that that does want to play it that their opinion is is illegitimate or stupid or invalid Yeah, I mean that that's technically the same as as people who say like, oh, we want to play vanilla and we're stupid That's technically the same thing. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I just maybe we are stupid I just don't think the demand for wad servers will ever remotely approach vanilla tbc or wrath servers Yeah, just like monetarily Yeah, and like there's just not enough people that would buy into it But I think that after wrath of the lich king, there's obviously a significant dropoff in demand Cataclysm is very popular amongst pvp years. It's actually often said to be one of the best pvp balanced expansions So I can see cataclysm from a demand standpoint, but I think blizzard internally are like, okay, these are our classic games This is the original trilogy I don't think they'll go beyond in the future because then it sets up a precedent just Go all the way. I mean we could be on battle for azeroth Classic, you know years down the line at some point. I think they'll draw the line to themselves It's there's plenty of people there's enough people to split the player base But to split the player base on eight expansions versus three I think it's just I can't imagine blizzard doing that. I just can't for whatever reason But yeah, what sucks if you like you should feel bad Yeah Um, so so this is a question. This is okay. This is a a short story. Okay Uh, this is a short story and I want to see if I can if I can find a way to Put this into another Here actually, let's do this my bad Let's answer another question and I want to see if I can condense this into a story or we might have to address this in another class cast Or condense this into an until like a short question, but um Somebody brought up the field of view difference Uh, if I can find this again somebody brought up the field of view difference and Uh, vanilla wow and the 1.12 client and the legion client. I really post wrath right wrath. They they Change the resolution of the they changed the field of view to match like a 16.9 resolution So you basically fit more on your screen This is one of those things to me that I think is probably going to be affected By them trying to downscale the game. I don't know I do know it does like That's one of the things I noticed when I first started playing like I thought like the camera looked really zoomed in Whatever I was playing vanilla and I got kind of used to it Um, but I don't know what do you what do you guys think about that? Um, again like on a technical side of things. I'm not sure if we'll see it It sounds like something that would probably be retained in the system if you're down porting I do have confidence that blizzard, especially after that last job listing They're trying to do their best to kind of restore the game to how it used to look Um, so I have faith in that if it manages to make it this uh, the the increased field of view I mean You know, it's it's not blizz like no changes all that stuff But it's one of those things that well, I mean You know what? It could have severe implications, especially pvp. So I'd rather it not be in there I I hope they understand. I hope they pay attention to it Uh, well the problem the problem with it is is that right now There's a uh, you can run a script that can actually change your field of view on the 1.12 client So a lot of a lot of people do that anyway Um So that's that's that's another thing to to consider Yeah, because like it's it's not something that like is a it's a limitation of the client That's the thing. It's not something that I think it's a limitation of the client It's the fact that whenever vanilla wild came out like almost nobody had 16 by 9 monitors Right Yeah, there's a script you can do I think even if it's not, you know Like built even if there's not like an fov slider like built in functionality you can still accomplish it Like you said, uh, I don't think it's a limitation of the client So I I'm not sure that That they will I mean, I don't know I personally I personally would prefer to have a longer field of view to be totally honest Yeah, and again, this is this isn't so field of view is different than view distance Uh, right. Yeah, my bad. Uh, I want a long draw distance and I want to see everything always Like this is something to uh, uh This is something to clarify for for people listening So so view distance is basically like Like like stay safe was just saying like it's being able to see everything from like a million miles away Just making a joke about it But field of view actually is like being able to see more on your screen width and height essentially it's like Kind of like a fish eye that's that's how that's how the best way I could describe it, right? It's like kind of like a fish eye lens like a little bit more fish eye on your screen Um But yeah, I think that's something that's likely going to be kept just from a technical standpoint and I don't know that's something that doesn't quite bother me too much If you know one way or the other it doesn't quite bother me because I got used to it whenever I felt more zoomed in Whenever I look at the 1.12 client now. So Yeah, I'd be more concerned with how movement feels than anything else like graphically and stuff like that I know I got a lot of flame for it on the last classic gas But I still I still hold to it man Like if the game starts to feel too much from a movement standpoint from an ability standpoint and stuff like that casting standpoint like the modern game That that I'm not going to get upset with it, but I can definitely see why some people would get upset with it Um, that that's probably the bigger concern for me than the field of view And uh that that question by the way was from radiant blaze on twitter So again, if you guys want to send us any tweets Sfan tv tips out baby and stay safe warlock Hashtag classic cast would be nice and i'm looking at tweets now Um, hey, this is a really good question. You're from adrian. I think it can we can we answer this real quick? Yeah, for sure What do you think the privates of our players will be surprised most of when moving to real classic in terms of mechanics? so This isn't in terms of mechanics, but what I think This this is I anticipate the biggest difference between private servers and classic well on an actual classic I think everyone is going to be really really bad I think I think the general skill and knowledge of the game is going to be so much lower than it Than it is on private servers You have to imagine the people the people that are playing on private servers right now are absolute freaking vanilla fanatics They're willing to to torrent the game They're willing to to invest countless hours days weeks of their gameplay on a server that might disappear overnight These people are vanilla about freaks. Okay, they've probably been playing it for like it's crazy And we've all been there, but these these are the the most Loyal vanilla wow players that there possibly can be And when classic wow is out the biggest change will be the community change. There will be a ton more Uh casuals people that that heard about it at work in the office. Hey, that might be fun Let's go try it out kind of a lot more kids It's going to be so accessible the game the general player base is going to be much more casual. I think For sure and That actually leads into this next question really well. This is from uh, this is from weasel on twitter And uh, he says when classic launches, it's very likely a large majority of people will quit within the first few months Likely I mean any game with that much hype. It's it's just going to be like that You have the big spike and then you start to drop off Um If we kept servers at two and a half to three and a half k a few months later The servers would be far emptier should we change the server population size so that later down the line The server population resembles what vanilla's was back then Or should we launch them as blizz like population sizes and have a lower server population later on and and I'll go ahead and start with this Uh, this is one of the benefits of having a little bit higher server population because You'll see nowadays where there'll be like 2000 people on a server even 3000 people on a server and uh, You'll go and have people say like oh like this is dead. Like I don't even want to play anymore The original game was like two and a half to three k estimated, right? That's 2000 people is plenty 2000 people is plenty of people To be able to play and have a good vanilla experience So if you do have a little bit higher population cap that that slowly trickles down a little bit and tapers off That's going to be totally fine and I think you bring up a good point in my opinion Do one of you guys want to touch on that? If you gave me the keys and you said do whatever you want to do you're in charge 100 servers 5k cap That's it. Okay. I mean That's 500,000 people concurrently playing. It's going to be it's going to suck for the first couple of days There's going to be millions trying to play but over time. I think it's a great balance If it's so high that you need to add more servers than so be it But I don't think uh, you know, like you said I spent 3000 players on a server is a lot Like if you actually like go into like storm and orgamar iron forage around in the world You're still going to see people in the world. You're going to see a lot of people in capital cities It's not 15k, but it's plenty to get the game done and you could even argue that Things like you know getting a group together and and being careful of your reputation and stuff like that Those are actual mechanics on smaller servers Those aren't mechanics on larger servers because you don't have to worry if you're ninja loot or not. There's Dozens thousands of people that that would group with you. They don't care stuff like that Um, so so I think I think 5k is great. It's a great middle ground and I think 100 servers. That's 500k concurrent Just just keep it simple. You know, that's how I see keep it simple this will be another really big difference between like active player base between Classic servers and private servers is that if we're talking about a 3k cap on a private server That that's a 3k cap pretty much around the clock 24 hours because you have Europeans playing in this time zone and then Australians in this time zone and north americans this time zone There's always, you know, the the time zones are always rolling over but it's very likely that in classic wow the servers will be region locked Um, and you won't have many europeans playing on us west coast servers very few of them So when it's when it's midnight us west coast, um If the server cap is 3k potential there might only be 900 people online, you know Yeah, so it's not going to be 3k around the clock if that's the cap like it wouldn't be on a private server It's not going to be international very unlikely at least. Yeah, absolutely That's what that's another thing to to kind of Touch on and it's like the authentic vanilla experience or the like private server experience, right? And uh, I think I think that what people want may it may have changed a little bit over the years, right? just because they've experienced different things and Uh, I think that's fine, right? I mean people people People are allowed to have different opinions on what they want exactly But uh, I do think that's something just like interesting to point out right with like higher population sizes And whatnot. Um in terms of having like a higher population size the This is another question Fahad brings this up He says he's worried that with vanilla servers being too big if if they were to make them too big, right? Like I like for example tipp says 5,000 to be fine. I think 5,000 to be fine too Based on the amount of players on each server it won't feel like a community since there are way too many people I would actually say the the exact opposite um I mean I can Like I would say that the more people are there That's the more opportunities that you have to make more relationships and to to be able to interact with More people that might be playing the game in the same vein as you are That's what I would say So I wouldn't worry about a lack of community because it's too big and you feel kind of like Lost a little bit and what's going on, but uh That's just my opinion. How do you guys feel about that? I think you're right. Um Sorry. Oh, go ahead. Um, there has been points on servers with 12,000 people online or or, you know, 10,000 9,000 Where the server's been out for nine months and I log in And I see a guy standing in iron forage and I've I've never seen him before and he's in full tier two He's an amazing gear full in chance and I've literally never heard of this guy. I'm like I had this thought one time. I'm like, okay. This is a guy that's probably invested You know dozens of days slash played Playing this same game on the same server that I'm playing and I've never even seen him No idea who he is Um, and so I definitely think from like a community standpoint. It's possible to have too many people on a server Um, there's something to be said for like a spawned account Who knows Okay, um Definitely smaller community does mean it's more tight knit and close and everyone is together and I think that's that's really cool Yeah, I I agree. I agree to stay safe there like There's some there's a point where a server starts to feel like a cross-frame zone when it has too many people And do it's just like who's this guy? Who's that guy? And more importantly than that. I feel like there's some negative consequences when it comes to player behavior when there's too many people I've noticed this maybe it's just like, you know, maybe it's sampling bias or whatever But I've noticed that when I'm on a very large server and I'm playing Um, a lot of antisocial behavior starts to kick in from people around me and myself Instead of talking to people asking them. Hey, you want to join a group socializing? I see somebody next to me. I invite them to a group. We kill the quest mobs Nobody talks when we're done. We leave the group. Nobody talks It feels like people almost become dispensable NPCs in worlds that big because you don't have to care about your reputation anymore Because at the end there's so many people that you can always just you know, you're going to get lost in the tens of thousands so I've kind of noticed that behavior a little bit and I feel like large servers They trivialize a lot of the social community aspect of vanilla Again, you don't have to worry about your reputation on the server as much you can get groups much faster And at the end of the day, you shouldn't be able to like chain zulfura groups 10 times in a row with all different people Like that's the game is not meant to be played that way There's so many opportunities to join a lot of guilds, which is a good thing on the surface But at the same time again, you know Was vanilla meant to have like 30 guilds on a server 30 rating guilds on a server Or just a couple of top end guilds and stuff like that I mean I I feel like it does take away from some of the community meshing and the closeness Although as esfan said it does give you a lot of opportunities to meet more people because you have more people But yeah, I see what you guys are saying. I and maybe maybe I just had a little bit different experience Now I I didn't I I didn't stream from the beginning like right whenever one of I was whenever I was doing my thing back on youtube Uh, I I wasn't a streamer from the beginning. I started streaming a few months into my playing experience Just kind of for fun And then I don't know. Maybe maybe maybe streaming affected that a little bit But I I felt like I I just developed a lot of relationships with a lot of people and Maybe that's my own like natural tendencies as a person Uh that that kind of like led to that but I just had a little bit different experience in that But I I do like I understand what you guys are saying too. So that's just maybe it's just different for different people, right? Yeah, yeah, I think streaming plays a role as well like naturally S-fan I'm guessing when you log in you get a couple of whispers. Hey, what's up, man? I watch your content I watch your stream stuff like that. Uh, you're out in the world. You're doing a quest somebody comes by Normally they would just walk by but they see oh, it's it's s-fan. You know group up with them stuff like that So it's definitely different when you're kind of anonymous and you're on your own in the world versus kind of having a reputation with you Yeah, man, I remember just kind of like a short short story Like I was grinding for an epic weapon because I did not have a weapon for molten core For the longest time and it's every week is it going to drop am I going to get a bre am I going to get a spinal reaper Am I going to get something and like every week? No, no, no And then I finally got a spinal reaper and dude my whispers Like I tried to respond to every single person who whispered to me But like my whispers exploded like people are posting in world chat like The the kind of community that you have in in wow It's like there are more people like congratulating me than watch my stream at the time Like I know like I know you know the kind of community that the potential for the kind of community that exists in in vanilla Wow is is so great and so awesome And like that's part of that's part of where like the grads s-fan meme comes from Like people literally grads s-fan the link an item that I can't even get the grads s-fan breastplate of might I'm a paladin just like thanks But uh But yeah, I know that was just one of the really really cool experiences that I I remember from back in the day and just like uh Like one of the real like strong like sense of the community that I got So Yeah Uh, can you guys cover for a question real quick? I gotta run real fast. I'll be back in like two minutes Yeah, absolutely pick out a question Let's see here. Uh, this is not related to leveling but uh casual canadian Hey, dude, what's up? Do you have a recommend do you have a recommended distribution loot system you look for when searching for a guild or is it personal preference? Tips what do you think about loot system for guild? Um, honestly, I'm gonna get a lot of flak for this It depends on what kind of guild you have first and foremost if you have a progression guild It's probably loot council like the top end guild. It's probably loot council all the way progress. Nope. Those guys guaranteed Um, if you have more of a semi hardcore guild I feel like the biggest asset that a raider can bring to vanilla and to a vanilla raid is consistency So honestly, I would default to some kind of dkpe epgp system or whatever With oversight of loot council and that's what I currently do in my guild right now It's like there's there's a dkp system However, there are certain items that are just too good like drakefang talisman stuff like that Those have to be decided by loot council because at the end of the day you really want them in the right person's hand But uh, I I am a fan of dkp and vanilla. I don't agree with it beyond vanilla I think things change a lot after that But in vanilla the most important thing is consistency, especially on smaller servers I think when you're playing on a 15,000 pop server again, you kind of lose that aspect of the game But if you're playing on a 3,000 pop server It's a lot harder to get 40 people into a group and I think one of the ways you can reward Them to show up is to have some kind of dkp Show up system, you know, that's how you get points, but obviously loot council over overseeing things as well Oh Yeah, that that's funny because I'm like completely opposite. I guess I would I will point in my life I will never be in an epgp or dkp build never because I I've I've had too many experiences of a complete idiot getting something really good and uh, sometimes these people just I mean What I want in a guild is a fascist strongman leader who's benevolent and it knows everything about everything I want a fascist strongman dictator Uh, who's also a nice guy and uh, that's how that's how that's what I want to be in Yeah, that's what I'm looking for. Uh, I I heard a little bit of the question. I believe it was uh dkp versus loot council It was just like what what's the preferred loot system? Just for us personally Yeah, for me loot council, but it has to be done the right way. It absolutely has to be done the right way um The thing with loot council to me is that it can be abused But a lot of times whenever people complain about loot council abuse This is what I this is what I've learned is that the people who complain about loot council abuse Are the people who are coming in and they're they're clocking in and clocking out as fast as they can They're not putting in the extra effort. They're not people that are that are making an impact on the guild They're not the guys who are helping their guildies and and doing the things to earn favor in terms of getting loot A lot of the times the people who complain about that Are the people who like I said, they're just trying to they're just trying to get their check at the end of the week You know, they're just trying to hey, I did the raid Where's my loot? You know, they're just trying to get the welfare stuff um As far as loot council goes if it's done properly and it's done in a in a way that is You're giving the gear and you're giving the stuff where it needs to go in addition to in addition to Rewarding people in a fair way I think that's the way to do it in my opinion. I know like In the case of dkp you can have guys like get dkp and There's there's the concept of and I've heard this before is like and I don't know if you guys talked about this but like Doing dkp and then also like kind of having like oversight over the dkp. It's like, oh, well, you can't bid on it, right? I I don't I don't like that because to me it's like you got to choose like are you dkp or are you loot council because If you're dkp you have to let everybody. Oh f did we f We're good. We're okay So if you're dkp like I think you have to let people just like You've saved up your dkp. You can spend it as you want if you're loot council then Your loot council and you say, okay, this goes here like our warriors get this or our Rogues get that our mages get this or warlocks get that And and you can figure all that out in a fair manner if you want to Give dkp like more if you want to have dkp and like Officers get more dkp or like guild master gets more dkp Because they would normally get like more favor in a loot council situation because they're doing more work They're spending the time behind the scenes like I cannot tell you running a guild I cannot tell you the amount of hours every single week that was spent For me. I was doing raid sheets. I was doing loot council. I was meeting with my officers I was planning this I was planning that all on top of like trying to stream like I remember people were Spamming me. Why don't you stream? Why don't you stream? It's like I'm having like meetings like all day I mean guild meetings. So like there's so much extra work. It's it's a second job and That's why those people in a loot council situation are going to get a little bit more favor Um, I also think loot council is better in terms of like gearing up your tanks and you know, you you want to have The concept of like a main tank kind of changes later on in vanilla because you don't have quite like one main tank You end up having tanks like tps tanks and defensive tanks and you have guys that that fit different roles but uh you want to establish those roles as players and You want to distribute the loot the right way If you don't do it the right way then loot council is going to suck. So basically loot council puts the onus on the leadership And in my opinion, I like that if you have good leadership As a guild leader I prefer Loot council in a progression guild. I prefer loot council But I feel like in general if you're a semi-hardcore or a casual guild and you're playing on a blizz like population server I I I just I do see merit in dkp. I think it gets a little bit too much flame. Sometimes it's abusable Yeah, I should do everything a different way. Yeah, there's no there's no perfect system at the end of the day But I'm guessing the people in the chat right now They're watching classic cast. We don't even know when blizzcon is coming You guys are probably experienced with vanilla or looking forward to putting a lot of time into it Loot council find a hardcore guild with good leadership. Like stay safe said probably That's what you'll probably be more amenable towards in general. Here's a quick bonus idea I've been in guilds that have done this where every They'll the leadership will rotate one random person onto loot council. So every week you'll have one Raider on the loot council that can throw in a zoom and he contributes That's that's a good way to get people involved as well for that. I think yeah, but also like yeah I think I think that's a good way to do it But like I said like a lot of times people who like don't like loot council like They they either experience it in a bad guild and I have to I have to I've been in a bad guild where it's like They've just like taken everything and uh, not really like distribute the loot properly um Now I will say this I've made mistakes being a guild leader in a loot council guild I have made personal mistakes in regards to giving loot to people that were not Uh, they did not earn it yet You know whether right like like a lot of people say like oh well if you're a trial in a loot council guild Like you don't get any loot. It's like, okay. Well if you're a trial in a dkp guild You're not going to get any loot, right because you don't have any dkp saved up So like yeah, it works the same way the only difference is is that if loot does trickle down to you in a dkp guild You're going to have to spend some dkp on it in a loot council situation And you're in trial in a guild you're a new player and all of a sudden like everybody has The the gear already Then you lucked out right like I had a situation where we had somebody get best in slot weapons And an onslaught girdle in the bwl patch a warrior got kroll shiruk doom's edge and onslaught girdle in a matter of eight days A trial warrior And he ended up being a good player for us But that's just how it works sometimes, you know if you have A good distribution of gear in your guild and all the other warriors already have it and your palin already has it too, you know But yeah, that's why he wants loot council No, that's like that's part of it too is like whenever you're whenever the guild leader whenever you're an officer in the guild Uh and the the amount of work that's put in if if you say like, okay Like we're going to give officers bonus dkp Like it just I think that kind of comes off the wrong way As opposed to just being like look this guy gets this like We're not like More than likely just a typical member in the guild is not going to get Ateesh in nax, you know, like my warlock officer or like my mage officer is going to be getting that or priest or druid even But like, uh, that's that's going to be the situation where like one of those guides is more than likely going to get it Because they're in that position because the amount of time and effort and work that they've put in Throughout the course of about two years or a year and a half at the time next comes out Uh Establishing and cultivating Uh this guild so yeah, yeah, I think we all agree that personal loot is the way to go though for real Yeah, just personal loot just take all the decision making out of the game. I think that'd be great. Let's just uh Do you guys do you guys have any other questions? Is there uh, is there anything else that you guys want to hit on? We've been going for about two hours now I think this is a good spot. Yeah, there's been some really really good questions. Mm-hmm. I'm really happy with this so far Yeah Yeah, I think uh Need before agreeing. Yeah, by the way guys, if you haven't already, please please please go follow stay safe tv Go follow tips out, baby. They're both on twitch as well Uh, also their youtube channels and my youtube channel sfan tv You can see all the all the names are right down there all the handles are right down there Twitter as well tips out baby sfan tv stay safe is the only one that's different than his other ones stay safe warlock Please go follow us Uh, check out the channels as well. Yes for sure. Absolutely. Absolutely and stay safe. Just link tips out in the chat um Yeah, that's when you're gonna keep streaming the rest of the day, right? I am I am I am all right So, uh, guys, I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and continue with the rest of our stream Again, thank you guys so much. Thank you guys so much for joining us for a classic cast Oh Oh Cut out. No, I hit my soundboard. I hit the wrong button on my soundboard Thank you guys so much for joining us for Class of cast number nine guys. Thank you very much. Thank you guys so much All right, I'm gonna get out of here guys. Take it easy this one. Have a good rest of your stream Thank you guys so much. We'll see you guys later. We'll see you guys next time. Maybe two weeks. We'll see we'll see Take care boys. Are we are we done? Oh shit