 It was very exciting. She's like, it's a dot. Yeah. Well, she'll always have you aim higher. So it's a wife's are good for. Still not, still not broadcasting live stream is starting soon. Something's funky. I mean, obviously this, the hangouts working, like we're all in here. Stream status good this time. Well, that's, that's good. Sounds like something's down on there. Oh, no, no, it. Yeah, no, it's fine. Now it's streaming. Oh, good. All right. Cool. Well, before we start, I'll need control. Uh, yes, control. Control, like the old song. Oh, Janet Jackson, you just Janet Jackson dust and it wasn't nasty. Well, Miss Jackson, if you're nasty. Miss, yes, right. Of course. All you nasty boys. Oh man. Oh, all right. So our video is working. Uh, some of you won't ever know that it wasn't working because you just watching it on demand later. So for you guys, Hey, we just started the stream. It's totally fine. Everything's the same as always. Nothing to worry about. Okay. Uh, but you're going to get a little less pre-show because we're running behind. So we're going to get started now. Are you guys ready? Yep. Sure. Here we go. Daily Tech News show is powered by its audience, not outside organizations to find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash support. This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, October 26th, 2016. I'm Tom Merritt joining me today as he does Wednesdays. My co-host Scott Johnson from frog pants studios and artists, which is very important with today's news. Yeah, there's a lot going on today. Uh, I feel like it's a bit of an embarrassment of riches. We're going to get to talk about some pretty interesting creative news today. And also I feel like we're at the ground zero birthplace of a holographic revolution potential. Yes. Uh, just in time for Microsoft to introduce a new third dimension to reality this morning, uh, Mr. Jaime Ruiz Avila, creator of the hall effect is joining us today. Welcome, Jaime. Hey, Tom Scott. It's great to be here. Long time viewers of DTS may recognize Jaime as either tense or guy from the chat room, or perhaps, uh, previously he's been on to discuss physics topics with us before, but we're going to talk to you a little later in the show about the hall effect, which short version is it can do holographic projections in thin air. Yes, we make images in the air with light. Yeah, our, our Star Wars future is, is nigh is what you're saying. Yeah. Just run a quick. Yeah. If you want something that is not quite to the same resolution as in a new hope, but can eventually do a princess layer projection. That's what Jaime is inventing. Doing our best, Tom. No, man, it's, it's really good. Uh, few things were breaking right as we started the show, the Wall Street Journal's Takashi Mochizuki said on Twitter that Nintendo's fiscal guidance assumes 2 million Nintendo switches will sell by the end of March and sale in March. Think they can do it, Scott? Uh, yeah, I do actually. I think this is going to be a big deal for them. I know that there's a lot of different opinions about what the switch will do or won't do, but, uh, this, uh, strikes me is not that hard to do. The question is, how long is the tail? I actually don't think the 2 million up front is hard. It's the 50 million they need on the back end that will be harder. Apple announced it needs a little more time to finish its air pod wireless earbuds before it starts selling them. It was supposed to do so by late October. Sounds like that won't happen. They didn't give a new date. Uh, thought we didn't need a headphone jack, but apparently you do need a lightning port. I heard rumors that it was because they keep losing them and had to get new ones to keep losing the right one. There's got a big stack of left ones right now. Uh, and Betaville reports it has sources saying Disney is back to being interested in buying Twitter. Hmm. Put a couple of big mouse ears on that bird. Yeah. Now here are some more top stories. Ah, yes, Microsoft announced lots of things today, uh, including the next update to windows 10 will come this spring. And we see in the source code that it says March. Uh, they didn't delineate March particularly. They want to give themselves some wiggle room. I think, but probably targeting around March. It will be called creators update and include a new Microsoft paint. Rest in peace old Microsoft paint. The new paint is Microsoft paint 3d. You can make 3d designs in it. You can share those designs on Facebook or export them to a new 3d art community called remix 3d. That also shares works from Minecraft. So you can swap those back and forth. Objects can be scanned in 3d with an upcoming cross platform phone app. They demonstrated it on a Windows phone, but made a point of saying we want to bring this to iOS and Android. Microsoft also showed viewing remix 3d objects in hollow lens, which of course is only available in a developers edition, but here's the lead. They buried. They barely talked about this. They announced that Windows VR headsets will be coming from HP, Dell, Lenovo, Asus, and Acer that require no external sensors. They are tethered, but they don't need to have room sensors and they can still do motion tracking because they have six accesses, they say, and these devices will start at $299. So they're considerably cheaper than the Oculus Rift or the HTC Vive. Windows creator studio will also integrate Microsoft's gaming streaming service called beam that they recently acquired so that you can stream right from games and add custom gaming tournaments to Xbox live arena. Also implementing proper Dolby app support. Finally, Windows 10 will have a new messaging feature that combines Skype, mail and other apps into a pop-up panel in the Windows taskbar and allow documents to be dragged to a contact there so you don't have to attach them. You can just send them the doc and it can also receive SMS messages sent to Android phones. Yeah, the process. Yeah, the update in general just obviously very tailored to I don't know. It feels like a broad range of everyone from creators to gamers. It's just doesn't feel like very much of a technical update, even though a lot of these things are obviously highly technical. I do think it's interesting that remix 3D that art community and also paint being able to export 3D designs and then keep them in the cloud and people can download them and use them and and so on feels like SketchUp again. Like that's really what that is. That may be wonderful actually because SketchUp support has been sketchy in the last couple of years. And they gave a shout out to SketchUp in the announcement and said that the SketchUp service will also work with this remix 3D library. Oh, I missed that part. That's amazing. Then that's really cool. So yeah, overall, I'm super, super interested in almost everything they announced. I think it's once again a sign that Microsoft is, I don't know, they're just turning the ship ever slowly, but turning that ship nonetheless and aiming it at a very different demographic these days and I like it. They're really focusing on creators obviously by naming it Creator Studio, but they talked a lot about artists and drawing and modeling and and this and that. And Jaime, that's going to be of interest to you as somebody who's creating a display meant to display things in 3D. Absolutely. I think what they're doing is, is populating a Holovence HoloLens environment there. They want people to make us much stuff for their device as possible and it is really interesting and it's also encouraging for, I think, all the efforts VR and holographic in general. Jaime, I got a question for you. Don't you feel like it has been in the past, primarily the purview of Apple to be the great savior of the creators? The creators go there first for their art and their drawing and their film editing. And the last few years as Apple has become way more consumer focused and less focused on its pro and creative community, which, you know, they're going where the money is. Isn't it interesting to see Microsoft kind of swing back the other way and they're there for the very first time making me sort of lust after some hardware that I usually only reserve for new Apple creative products and suddenly I want, you know, I want what they're doing. Absolutely. I think they have made a decision. They have, they have decided that, that this, you know, interactive mixed reality, 3D object holographic world is coming and they want to be there and, and it is very encouraging. It feels, it feels like some of the very, you know, early Microsoft stuff where they would bring in a tablet and, and, and, and, you know, pushing that direction and they haven't done that for a while. And in that sense, yes, they are taking the place of Apple in recent memory. I'm very excited. I think it's great. What else did they announce? Scott? Oh, you know what? I'm going to tell you something else they announced. Tom, I'm just so excited. It was hard for me to remember. I had to read next. Hey, check this out. Microsoft also announced the suit, excuse me, the Surface Book i7 as the name implies it as an Intel i7 processor, double the graphics performance of the previous Surface Book and now promises 16 hours of battery life. That very specifically addresses a big battery problem that the previous model had. The Surface Book is up for pre-order for Microsoft.com and ships in November for $2,399. That battery life thing was a big hangup for a lot of people. My brother allows that book. Yeah, I have it too. Yeah. And he just was so frustrated with battery life, it made it almost unusable for him. So this is good news for, for him and those who were hoping for a second chance on this thing. Also, T-Mobile posted an update to its listing for the Alcatel Idle 4S. That went on sale back in July, bundled with the Gear VR. Now it's coming soon, bundled with Windows VR. So that'll be interesting to see what that ends up with. And finally, Microsoft announced the Surface Studio in all-in-one desktop. It has a 28 inch, 192 pixel per inch pixel sense touchscreen that is 12.5 millimeters thick. People are calling it paper thin. I don't know about you guys, but my paper is not 12.5 millimeters thick usually. But it is very thin, very thin for an all-in-one display and capable of 13.5 million pixels. So it can definitely do more than 4K. It also has an Intel Core processor, 32 gigabytes of RAM. That's a good amount of RAM in there. Two terabyte hard drive, a hybrid hard drive, not all flash. And an NVIDIA GTX 980M GPU. The big deal are the 30 custom parts in the hinge on the back that allows the thing to be repositioned and lay almost flat, not quite flat on the table, but you probably wouldn't want it. You want to have a little bit of angle. You can pre-order the studio today for $2,999, though it will only be available in limited quantities. Pre-orders get the Surface Dial, a haptic feedback input device for free. It's like a little dial, essentially, that you can either use sitting on the desk or with the Surface Studio and some of the other touchscreens like the Surface Pro, you can put it on the screen and it will actually work as an interface directly on the screen. So you get that free if you pre-order. If you don't get it free or you want to buy it for one of the other Surface tablets, you can get it November 10th for 99 bucks. So this is the device that completely freaked me out and made me kind of lose my mind today. I am a, again, long-term user of Apple products for creative work. I have a big Waycom tablet right here that costs the same amount of money as this complete setup, except it is only a display. It's a nice pressure-sensitive, you know, pen display, but nonetheless a display that needs a computer to run it. This is a shot directly over the bow of what Waycom does. This is also a shot directly over the bow of what Apple has traditionally been known for, which is, again, catering to that creative space. And I cannot emphasize this enough how this feels to have them focusing on people like me and creators out there and not just because they want to, and I agree with Jaime about populating the sort of the HoloLens world with lots of content. I think that makes good sense for them. But I don't think, I think it's bigger than that because we're talking about 2D artists and 3D artists and filmmakers and audio engineers and everybody who does creative work and content are going to be looking at this thing and being interested in it. And Apple, out of the Steve Jobs era, has gotten away from that in such a, just such a powerful way. It used to be they were the ones that would say, yo, the world likes to make things. We're going to let you make them and print them and see them in full graphical beauty in 1984 on a screen. These things were unheard of at the time. That's the ground they were breaking and since then they've just gotten away from it. So this is a real chance for them and it's actually kind of crazy for me to say this in one announcement. But I feel like out of all the things they've released over the last couple of years, all the Surface Pros, everything else, this one seems like, oh, they're actually really committed to this. This is a really nice piece of hardware with like a good shelf life and, you know, it looks like a quality device. Now, the only concern I have was when they start saying things like limited quantities. I don't know if that means this is a test. They're not going to do it and have revisions. It's obviously a big solid state piece of hardware. You're not going to be doing upgrades on it. It sounds to me like they were, they really shouldn't release this till after the first of the year, but they wanted to hit the holiday season. Yeah, that. I am very, very interested, though. Am I ready to plunk down a pre-order for three grand? I don't, I don't know yet, but, but I, my, my, all of my creative stuff is going off with this. I need reviews, though. I need to know how's the stylus on that size, you know, they gave up the Wacom stylus a while ago. So what's the new digitizer that Microsoft has proprietary in there? What's that like? There's still a lot of questions, but just as a general overall feeling takeaway about this specific device in today's announcements, they seem to care that there are a bunch of us still trying to make things on the internet or otherwise. And we need the tools to do it. I would say that Apple still wants you to think of them as artistic, but you're right that most of that pitches around photos. Yeah, they're always talking about photos. And if it's about video editing, it's home video editing, not professional video editing. So it's not just that they're, it's not that Apple has abandoned creators. It's that Apple has pivoted towards consumers versus professional creators. And it's, it's great to have these two guests today because we've got the right brain with Scott Johnson, who needs these sorts of tools to design his art and his comics and things like that. And when we've got Jaime, you were, I don't need to pigeonhole you as left brain. I knew you were a very creative guy, but, but you also need these tools for those kinds of schematics and design and the engineering as well. Absolutely. Questions, Scott, what do you think of the knob? I find it fascinating. Is it something that will help you in your work? It's the dial. Yeah. All our UK fans are not. You know what? I like the idea that it would be called the Microsoft knob. Finally, we have a true successor to Microsoft Bob because of rhymes. But anyway, no, I think that that is super interesting. What you're basically saying is instead of just having this virtual surface, this virtual desktop that you can touch and move and have pressure sensitivity on how about we add another physical item that then interacts in such a way that it creates dials and levels and color saturation settings and things. If it's a nice, heavy duty, like how that feels in your hands is going to be really important. And that's going to be, you know, time's going to have to tell when that thing actually gets in people's hands to see. But it's a really interesting approach, isn't it? Like you're basically saying, here's more hardware in an area where you really don't need it. I'm not exactly sure we need it, as I guess what I'm saying. You could probably accomplish nearly everything that you'd need to do with these settings and things they show in that video with your hands. That's what we're doing now. It's not like it's hard now, but it is definitely out of left field did not expect it. No, I totally understand it because when we were doing designing the control system for for the Hall of Act, we needed something like that. We need something physical for the user to touch and that would relate directly. So I totally understand it. And it just feels like the way things are going to go. It's not too big. It's not too, you know, in your way. And it does give you an additional level of control. I I really like it. Support matters, though, right? Like we have no idea how on board with any of this stuff that Microsoft announced today that Adobe is and Adobe is is crucial to the to the creating community into the professional community of creators. So so how that knob interacts with Photoshop and illustrator dial dial dial Yeah, all that stuff matters. Sorry, I keep I'm going to keep calling it the knob. I know you are. Yeah, I can't I'm not sure what I make about the dial. You guys are convincing me that it's a better idea than I thought. It felt a little gimmicky seeing it in the announcement today. But you're both putting cases for why you would actually need to use it or want to use it or would benefit you. I see it as the kind of thing that that looks really good in a demo and then just sits on your desktop and you're like, oh, Ryan, I'm supposed to use the dial for that. But it sounds like you guys are more positive about it. Well, I like my waycom right now has built in buttons where I can say I need to switch from brush to a racer or to a panning tool or zoom tool or something. And so they're like quick shortcuts. What this would probably do for me is provide a movable meaning I can kind of have it anywhere I want to wherever it's comfortable place to create such things as I need to scale my brushes up and down on the fly or I need to change the the trend of the opacity of this particular color or layer and Photoshop on the fly. So I can see actual use cases for it. The bigger question is how how quickly can I make that thing do go from being how big my brush is to how much that opacity is? Like, is that an easy thing? Do I just click something? Am I just popping a button somewhere? Or is this just extra work? And that that's, I guess we don't know yet where I see the utility of it is definitely in 3D because you have your if you're right-handed like me you have your your right hand and mouse and and you're turning the object around with with your left hand in the dial. So if you're going to do some detail in the back of you know an apple or whatever and then move around. I can see how it can help, especially in that 3D space that they kept mentioning again and again. It may just be in a really great zoom control. Like in the end of the day, like the practicality might be I just use it for zoom when it comes to two dimensional art or painting or something. Others in 3D might get something similar out of it. And that's even okay, especially if it comes with the preorder. So I don't think that the people that are willing to plunk down early for this should should be too concerned. They're going to get to try it out essentially for free and let the rest of us know what they think. Now the one last thing I want to mention before we move on to the to the non Microsoft stories today. Troy, who is in our analysts level slack for patrons at the analyst level was saying he thought this was way too expensive. And one of the problems he had was they kept saying Windows 10 creators edition. It's not creators edition. What is it? It's a I keep getting wrong creators update is for everyone. But then the piece of hardware that takes the best advantage of it is $2,999. He's like, that is not a price that is available for everyone. And my first reaction was like, well, yeah, the windows is for all the machines and the creators at the surface studio is like their top of the line. So of course, it's going to be more expensive. And in talking to him about it, I realized we were coming at it two different ways. I'm coming at it as here are three separate announcements. He's looking at it. The way you look at an Apple announcement and of late a Google announcement with Pixel that this is the company saying here is our vertical product line. We make the software and the hardware and it all works together. And in that respect, they really didn't do and they didn't do anything that said the creators update is going to be just as useful on your old laptop that you have right now with Windows 10 as it will be on this very expensive studio machine. Yeah, that's a good point. It's an important distinction. But also, this is the way this stuff goes. Like I have currently an Apple Mac Pro, the ones that all look like a little cylinder, the cylinder style, most recent one. And that is an expensive machine that I had to make a very like hard business decision about. But it gave me more of what I needed for what I do than any other option at the time. And we're looking for stuff that last longer. We're looking for things that will carry us into the future a little bit. And some might say, well, this is really locking you in because like an iMac, for example, it's all self contained, very hard to upgrade. When the new one comes out, it's like, throw away the old one and get the new one. And so I understand all of those those misgivings. But we're talking about people are looking for the best possible tool for their output. And this is the first time Microsoft has got me to the edge of thinking they may have the tool I want right now for what I need to do. And that hasn't happened. And I can't tell you how long. Yeah, also just to give a quick comparison, you're going to pay the same price, $3,000 plus for a waycom that is nothing but a display that has the touch sensitivity in the pen and no other functionality. This is a fully functional computer in every sense, will even be a pretty decent gaming machine, by the way, by the looks of these specs, not top end, but you know, yeah, I mean, it's got it's got the Nvidia mobile processor in it. I mean, again, and I know it it seems like it's still $3,000. Yes, but that I'm not saying that they're just taking advantage of the creator community, but they expect to pay a premium for the best tools. And Chimera points out another question I've seen other people asking as well. Why isn't there a $1,500 monitor version of this? I can see them not wanting to announce that on today and just shine the light on studio. But that would be an interesting thing for them to offer down the road. Yeah, sure. In fact, you know, the only thing that bugs me about this and maybe and maybe that will answer that maybe one day, we get a surface monitor that is this 28 inch monitor that has the same layback functionality, the pressure sensitive touchscreen, which seems like they're going that way across the board and turn existing PCs essentially into the creative studio. And what you've got is the only difference being you don't have a little middle computer part there that's apparently housing all your hardware. And instead, you're using your existing top end PC. That would be awesome. And you know, somewhere in the $1,500 range would be a real sweet spot for me. And I think a lot of people. Yeah. At a Wall Street Journal event, speaking of non Microsoft News, AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson, Stephenson, excuse me, said the internet only direct TV now service will cost $35 a month and include more than 100 channels. They'll come from Time Warner NBC Universal Fox and Disney and a bunch more. Stephenson said the service will be available by the end of November. It's Randall Stephenson. Is it just Stephenson? Never see it spelled that way. The PH that seems expensive or basically just like getting cable. Why would I get that? Oh, $35 a month for 100 channels. No, the price is okay. But let me make this clear. The reason I got into the unplugging game was like, this is to be clear, $2,900. No sweat off Scott's back with 35 bucks. outrageous. It's all about what you value. I guess I don't I don't have any. I don't want to watch commercials and these are going to be filled with commercials. And so I'm just paying for cable again and a lower price. And that's I guess fine. You don't do PlayStation View or Sling TV. No, I do not. Okay. So and that's what this is meant to compare to PlayStation View. Its lowest tier is I think 40. So it's just slightly above and it doesn't quite have the number of channels he's promising. The other thing is though, we really don't know what this thing's going to look like. What is the on demand going to be like, will it have a cloud DVR like PlayStation View, which is one of the things I love about it. So so many questions with Randall Stevenson just kind of thrown out there. By the way, I know you're all concerned about us buying Time Warner, but let me distract you by saying way before that merger happens, we're going to have our over the top service available. Yeah. They also seem to be integrated vertically. Totally. It's they're going to own a lot of the internet everywhere now, more than they do now. And it's they're going to say, well, you're cutting the cord here. Cut the cord with us. Stay in the family. Keep keep paying us. Even before AT&T own Direct TV, Direct TV was very aggressive in providing live video over the internet for its satellite subscribers. Now that wasn't available if you didn't get the satellite. But I remember when I had Direct TV, their iPad app was very good. You could get a lot of live channels. You could get a lot of on demand channel. So I would expect that this will be a pretty compelling offer. What will be available at $35 a month, though, is going to be interesting. My guess is it's going to be $35 a month gets you this basis, but there's going to be a lot of upselling and definitely a lot of bundling upselling. Business Insider was saying they're going to zero rate it if you're an AT&T wireless subscriber. I have not found any confirmation of that from AT&T or Stevenson didn't actually say that. So that remains to be seen. But I bet you they'll give you discounts on this service if you buy one of AT&T's other services. Yeah, also 100 channels of what I need. I need more details. I understand time, NBC Universal Fox and all that, but that's part of my problem is it's 1000 channels. Well, in this case 100 channels of four that I want to that I might want and a bunch of shows that I can't get because it's not HBO or whatever. So I just I don't know 35 bucks is a good price. Don't get me wrong. This would have been way better six, seven years ago. And I was trying to make a decision. I would have done this as my little half step. And by the way, W. Scott is one says the PlayStation View access slim package is $30 a month right now. I don't know if that's an introductory offer, but it's cheaper than what 18D is giving you. So yeah, with Alright, let's talk about this speaking of ISPs Alphabet, which owns Google and owns other companies that it has created. It's so confusing for people right now. Alphabet has a company called Access and here's where it gets even extra confusing. Access is the company that operates Google fiber. They get to call it Google fiber even though it's not part of Google. Anyway, Alphabet's access division is laying off or reassigning about 9% of its staff related to a pause in 10 cities where it has yet to fully commit to a fiber rollout. So this is this is causing a lot of misunderstandings out there. Cities that already have Google fiber won't lose it. So if you're in Atlanta, Austin, Charlotte, Kansas City, National Provost Salt Lake or the research triangle in North Carolina, they're not stopping your Google fiber, you're still going to have it. Cities where Google is publicly committed to rolling it out will still get it. So even if they haven't started rolling it out, if they've started the process with the city, they're not going to back out. So Huntsville, Alabama, still going to get it. Bill, you're going to be fine. Irvine, California, San Antonio, even Louisville, where they're getting sued, they're still planning to roll it out. Places where they hadn't actually committed are are what they are pausing. And don't forget, they just bought a wireless service called Webpass that does wireless broadband. Those cities are in San Francisco, Oakland, Chicago, San Diego, Boston and Miami. Of those wireless Webpass markets, Chicago and San Diego have been removed entirely from the upcoming list for Google fiber. So it looks like they're going to focus on Webpass there. San Francisco has been switched from a Google fiber deployment to a wireless deployment. So it looks like Google is saying, I'm sorry, Alphabet is saying we're committed to expanding that Webpass offering or something like it in San Francisco. That leaves Dallas, Jacksonville, Florida, Los Angeles, Oklahoma City, Phoenix, Portland, San Jose and Tampa in limbo for now. They're on pause for Google fiber. And we don't know if they'll resume with installing Google fiber or whether they're going to switch to Webpass or they're going to back out. Now, everybody's taking this as, Hey, they're laying people off. That means they're going to back out. They're laying people off related to rolling out Google fiber in these markets because they bought Webpass. My guess is what they're looking at is we should just use the Webpass staff because that's less intensive to roll wireless broadband out in these cities instead of going to this trouble of laying fiber, which isn't meeting our subscriber targets. Yeah, it's also important to know that they didn't talk anything about where they are with existing installations. So for example, in Salt Lake City, which is where they have Google fiber now, it ends about five miles north of me, which is a super bummer for me. But now I wonder, does this mean that's on pause because they're state Oh, that's not part of this announcement anyway. They're not pausing the rollout in any of the cities where it's being rollout. Good. They were actually very clear about that. Like this doesn't mean we're pulling out of the cities where we already are rolling it out. So they're going to continue even in places that don't have anything like Huntsville, they're going to keep rolling it out. My guess is you might have a different announcement coming down the road, but this announcement doesn't say we're stopping in Salt Lake. All right, well then good because my selfish needs are met. Yeah, well they will be hopefully. I'm in the paused city, Scott, here in LA, you guys in Austin, Jaime, Salt Lake, you guys are fine. Yeah, in fact, Austin, you guys are all good. You've you're all right. I guess I guess Provo was first, then you guys and then us. We got all right. Yeah. Well, who knows? Time will tell Flashpoint, a risk assessment company published preliminary analysis indicating Friday denial of service attacks were not the work of state actors. And for those who wonder what that is, no, it is not a local community theater. We're talking about like governments and stuff. Flashpoints, Allison Nixon, John Costello and Zach Wickholm said this the target suit, excuse me, the targeting of video game company aligns more with the hackers that frequent online hacking forums, unquote, in other words, script kitties. The attack also does not seem to be financially or politically motivated. Mikko Hypenin, I think he says his name, chief research officer at f secure, agreed, telling TechCrunch, quote, it was such an untargeted attack, it's hard to find a good motive for it. So kids, unquote. Yeah, people who and maybe kids, but but people who just wanted to show what they could do to try things out. It's the grand tradition of hackers, whether even when they're not malicious, can mess stuff up because they want to see what happens because it's possible to do it. So we always like when I say we I mean, people in general, often like to jump to conclusions that oh, it's Russia. Oh, it's China. That's like, you know, saying, Oh, fairies caused the lightning. Like it, you're just jumping to conclusions. You have no idea. And in this case, it doesn't look like that makes any sense. Yeah, it's not it's this that's the internet once again, providing zero home base for anybody doing anything. And it's hard to track any of it and say who did it or how old they were. And I just sort of giving up on stuff like this when it happens, I'm like, well, someone did it. And then hopefully it gets fixed real soon. And I can get back into World of Warcraft this afternoon or whatever. But but yeah, it sounds like this one was probably targeted by and maybe I don't know, does this the worry is that these guys if they're kids now they've got a big success under the belt. And people are saying they were state actors and they're getting all kinds of publicity for it. So who knows what their next target will be, I suppose. I think they were just trying to go back in time and stop reverse flash from kidding. Was that all then it was a novel. Yeah, well, time travels funny. Yeah. And Waffle Offagus points out, fairies don't cause lightning. That's caused by the old gods. Oh, right. Everybody knows that. Thanks to all those who participate in our sub Reddit, you can submit stories and vote on them at daily tech news show dot reddit.com. All right, let's talk a little we've been referring to the hollow Vects throughout the show. And some of you may be wondering what the heck it is. As we said, it's a holographic display. But sometimes people say, okay, so what do you mean by that? So it's a screen or it's a hologram. It's not a hologram, right? Jaime? No, it's not a hologram is a very specific thing. And, and, you know, Microsoft likes call everything hologram. But a hologram is a set of interference patterns that you've captured in film or a glass photographic plate. And then you recreate the conditions so that the object is apparently projected in front of you. And it has all the information of that object. Holograms are very hard to make. It's one of the things I did in college. And it is a pain in the butt because every movement of vibration can cause things to go funny. This is, this is a 3D projection in space. So the Hall of Vect is not a hologram. It's in space right in front of you. Right. And it is holographic because it contains the complete set of 3D information of that object. But it is not a hologram. It is what we think of a hologram in the movies or, or, you know, in science fiction. And it's, it's basically a laser draws in a layer between two masses of air with different physical characteristics and the interface is a point where you have a little bit of refraction, a little bit of reflection and a little diffusion, meaning there's a little, little spot. And that's what we call a voxel. I like, I like that you've the name Hall of Vect is interesting because clearly what we're looking at when I look at the video where you've demonstrated the device, I'm seeing vector imagery. Will, will that in your mind continue as time goes on to develop and move more toward, you know, more volumetric type geometry and that sort of thing? Or, or do you, or do you think the future of this is, is strictly, you know, geometric images projected with vertices and use of vectors? It is a good question. I the reason why we went with vectors is because it's, it's less that intensive so we can focus on, on, on more complex images. And if you go back to the beginning of the arcade era and whatnot, you have these very awesome vector graphic arcades and games. There's one quality of vector graphics that is amazing. And that is that if in the future, you know, 20 years from now, you have a very precise holographic room in your house or in a, in a, in an opera house or something like that, the, the, the things you create now since your geometric entities will project, you know, with all the fidelity of the new device. I am a little bit of afraid of moving in direction of, of sprites or the holographic version of sprites because they will be limited to, to what can be reproduced. I think that eventually people want to have something as close to what you can experience in VR. So I think we're going to have some sort of sprite like version of this. But for now, what we're going to do is, is increase the, the amount of vectors right now we can project on the, on, on the entry level unit, about a hundred vectors at 50 hertz, so 50 frames per second kind of thing. And on the big one, 200, we're going to continue pushing it and trying to get, you know, a thousand vectors, a thousand vertices. And hopefully that will provide enough complexity and enough interesting content for a while. It seems like it should, like you brought up old arcade games. Those games were huge for me. I played Battlezone to death and one of the things I've noticed about games like, like Battlezone or others that were in that style or even the Vectric's home system that came out and he had all those vector cartridge games. Vectors tend to hold up over time, whereas there may be a current love affair with sort of the eight bit era and reproducing that in modern independent games. But the vector stuff holds up and in many ways Tron's imagery holds up. Well, why? Because they were simple vectors or in some cases polygonal, but they were simple vectors filled in with with, you know, shaded polygons. And there's a there's a sort of a it can sort of withstand the test of time. It doesn't end up looking aged. It still seems very high tech and cool. So it seems to me by tying your wagon to that concept of more and more vectors to sort of fill out the images and create better images is the right way to go. Did that always sort of seem like the smart move from the beginning? A little bit, because again, you can have a computer do the amount of data is very little. So you can you can you can do very fast. This is about basically you want to draw the equivalent of a hundred four eighty ten eighty P screens, one in front of the other. So you want that to happen very quickly. But again, I think that as you go forward, there is an aesthetic that is interesting. There is a longevity to the to the creations that I think I think is appealing. And most likely what's going to happen is that you're going to have kind of like a rastered image filled in, which is as many vectors as possible to provide some depth. There's some interesting artistic challenges though. And and we've we've met with the goal, for example, for most most people interested in holography and is a Princess Leia type type hologram. And most interesting thing is that Princess Leia is not a hologram. She's she's a picture of a black and white TV. Oh, shoot. Something happened. OK, I'm sorry. Yeah. And and so we have to decide what we're going to show and what we're not going to show. You can't see the back of her head, for example, when we when we do that because it gets confusing. So so we have to invent basically a new language that that has only been foreseen by by by movies and science fiction, but hasn't been fully realized. So I think I just rewinding a little bit when you're projecting these vectors. What are you projecting them on? OK, the the best way of saying have you ever had a very warm cup of coffee in in cold air? You will see that there's like a blurring, kind of like like a mirage or a little steam rises up. There's not only the steam, but but there's a little bit of distortion right on top of the of a hot thing in a cold environment. That's because the refractive index of air changes depending on the pressure, the temperature and the humidity. So what we're what we've achieved or what, you know, one of the things that we've we've managed to do is maintain a coherent layer between two to two regions of air. And that coherent layer is maintained, you know, and we can move it around and we can make a column in almost any any space within the stage, which is a an area which is about 12 centimeters by 12 centimeters and 12 centimeters above that. So when the laser hits it, three things happen. One is a little bit comes back to the laser or the directional laser that's that's reflection and a little bit gets refracted so it gets bent in an angle and a little bit just gets diffused and and because of turbulent effects and a little condensation, you know, you get a little spark and that whole thing conspires to make a little tiny voxel, a little three dimensional pixel. So you're taking what makes stars twinkle and harnessing it to paint pictures of the enterprise. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. That's that's fascinating. Whereas I mean whereas, you know, a star has mass and is in a position, an actual position you are creating that. I mean, is there any? I mean, let's get right down to the physics. Is there mass to what you're projecting? No. Well, there's there's some energy to it, right? But no, not yet. But that's that's a good place to go. I would call it massless star twinkle capture. Hold on, let me write that down and get the pictures. Well, I'm not in charge of taming things. All right, so let's brass tax. You guys have put this up on Kickstarter. It has fully funded now. But people can still back you and get one of these to Kickstarter. Yeah. Yeah. What we did is since we got fully backed, we lower the price. We found that we could since we had sold the you know, we had we had got back for the whole amount, we could maintain the basically the promotional reward here. So it is a good opportunity. I don't think I think this will be the cheaper they will ever be. So take advantage of it. And and yeah, we also have a an RGV version, which is slightly larger. We worked really, really hard in making it easy for you to to create. For example, what you have on the screen right now, it is a plotly screenshot. And you just just, you know, make them. You just just start with a coordinate spot and then you start moving them around. You can also import 2D drawings and and, you know, get the coordinates for that and and load them in. So we'll go check it out. It's on Kickstarter. It's called Hollow Vect H-O-L-O-V-E-C-T and and we'll have a little more information at the end of the show. Let's get to our messages of the day, though, real quick. Mark in Darwin in the Northern Territory of Australia says regarding your question on electronic voting yesterday, why do you think the blockchain is not yet safe enough for elections? Is it the stuff around the blockchain that is the problem, the way it's implemented? Because we have a political party in Australia who is trying to use it in a form of direct democracy where people can vote on each bill that comes before parliament. They are techie guys as well, blockchain programmers from memory at voteflux.org V-O-T-E-F-L-U-X dot org. Yeah, Mark, I'm not saying blockchain can't be secure. It's more the reverse of I have not seen it demonstrated to be of the level of security we need for voting, which is actually a bit higher level of security than we even need for financial transactions. You also have different concerns you need to have anonymity but non-replicability. I can start as many Bitcoin accounts as I want, which would not be okay for voting. I need to only be able to have one account but also remain anonymous, stuff like that. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but there are plenty of ways to game a blockchain system, especially one that's small and in small voting regions that might become a problem. But I love that people are working on it and I hope they figure it out. Yeah, and those are just the technical hurdles. We won't even start talking about the political hurdles and getting something like that. And then finally, an email here from Ray, who actually sent this to the Holy Trinity of podcasters. He sent it to me, Scott, and Leo Laporte and said, as an everyday listener of all three of you, I thought you might be interested in a problem I'm having. I manage communications for a small nonprofit, a gospel choir based out of San Rafael, California. We send weekly mailings that are simple scheduling and performance updates, nothing fancy or even remotely spammy. After using MailChimp for two years with an unsubscribe rate close to 0%, I suddenly began getting nearly 20% unsubscribe rates that were occurring instantaneously. I'd get all of these unsubscribe notices within five minutes of sending a mailing campaign. The interesting thing is, according to MailChimp, Yahoo and AT&T are automatically triggering these unsubscribe links in emails because the reply to address is from an email account that lives at Mac.com. I've included correspondents from MailChimp that supports that documents their investigation and he sent that to me. I took a look at it, looked legit. He says net neutrality, no way, no how. Well, it's not actually a net neutrality issue. It's more of a spam issue. He says I'm not knowledgeable enough about these matters but if this is not illegal, it is at the very least extremely slimy. I hope you can raise awareness of this to help your listeners avoid this issue. It has taken MailChimp over a month to finally figure this out and restore my account as they automatically tag you as a spammer if you have a high unsubscribe rate. And yeah, in the email from MailChimp that he attached, MailChimp says our best advice would be to change your reply to address to one on your own company's domain moving forward. I don't even think this is slimy. It's just sloppy. They're basically saying if a Mac.com address is sending out a bunch of stuff, it's probably not a legit business. It's just a shortcut and one that impacts people who are like, hey, but I do have a Mac.com address. I worked for a company where our website kept getting blacklisted for no reason from various services and people couldn't get to it or they couldn't use our services or our emails were bouncing and it drove us crazy and we kind of had the same issue of hunting around for about a month to find out what was going on. And what it was is the web host we use, which I won't mention the name just to keep things uncomplicated was housed or at one point had a major, major spam attack that happened from within their servers from one of their subscribers, somebody who owned a domain there. And it was so massive and ugly that these blacklist just started putting the name of the host and anyone associated with the IP range the host had automatically on blacklist. So it didn't matter who you were, what legit thing you were doing, you were going to get blacklist. And once you were on those lists, it was really hard to get you off of those and they were scattered all over the place. We ended up having to switch hosts as a result. There was just no way around it. The host couldn't do anything about it. You had to go to every single blacklist and ask them to take us off. It was bad. This sounds like something like that happened to me. Yeah, we had the same thing happen with the tech TV emailing addresses back in 2000. This is the same exact thing. And we we we had to go through all kinds of hoops to try to get off the blacklist. So it's it's a it's a an arcane business to manage these sorts of things and kudos to Mailchip who looks like instead of just brushing Ray off and saying, oh, sorry, dude, really looked into it, tried to figure it out and help him out. The the work around for the time being until Yahoo comes up with a better rule, I guess would be to switch it to I guess you could use iCloud.com if you don't have another email address or come up with another email address. But that that is an interesting issue. Thank you, Ray, for bringing it to our attention. And thank you. Hi, Mairees Avila for joining us today. Remind folks where they can find out more about the Hall of Act. Hall of Act dot com. There's a link on the top or if you go to Kickstarter and search for Hall of Act. H O L O V E C T. And tell them D T N S sent you. I don't know. It won't get you a discount or anything, but we'll see. Oh, well, or keep your eyes open. Maybe we'll pull some pull some strings. Mr. Scott Johnson, what do you got going on? Well, I would first like to recommend people check out Hall of Act. You may have heard of it. It's super rad and it's like magic to me and I don't think it should be ignored. So please, please people go check that out. Secondly, it's almost time for BlizzCon. This is the annual Blizzard huge video game event with competitions, announcements and all the fun stuff that happens there. I will be there next Wednesday through Sunday. And if you're going, find me, check me out. More importantly, I will be hosting a or co-moderating a panel for overwatch on Saturday in the community area. So watch for that. And also, I'm supposed to appear on direct TV for like five minutes at some point. I don't know where or what or what the deal is there. But if you're at home and you're watching it via the direct TV package, why watch for me there? Keep an eye out not on direct TV now yet, but coming soon. And if this cold doesn't go away, they may not have me on. But just keep you away. Just wear one of those masks like you see people wearing in the airports and on trains. Thank you, everyone who supports this show. If you're willing to support the show and you don't know how, go to dailytechnewshow.com slash support. It'll tell you all the different ways. There's tons. We have a store. We've got t-shirts. We've got mugs or you could support us on Patreon on an ongoing basis. Big thanks to all of our patrons and everybody who's a patron. Please welcome Christopher Haslett, who just joined today and all the other new patrons that are joining us. Big thanks to Bob Rathmel, who more than doubled his pledge. Thank you, Bob. Patreon.com slash DTNS. Our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. We're live Monday through Friday at 4.30 p.m. Eastern. Come watch alpha geek radio.com or diamondclub.tv and our website is dailytechnewshow.com. Back tomorrow to talk Apple announcements with Justin Robert Young. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program. Nice. Well done. Well done. Good show, you guys. Sorry you're not feeling good, Scott. It just won't leave. I'm like day eight, nine now or something. Yeah, I'm just done with it. It's one of those things, but I'm OK. I'm sure. Rupert. I'm sure I'll be fine them next week. And in my White Count will be high. I'll be like at the top. I won't bring that into it. Yeah, I don't think it works that way, but so that's one of the story I'm going with. Showbots titles. Yes, please. We got Help Me, Hollow Vect. You're my only hope. Sketchup is very sketchy. I ain't no hologram girl. Microsoft has a third dimension. Dial the knob. It's a dial you knob variation. There's a lot of polish on Microsoft's knob. I don't it's a little lewd. I think Microsoft's all about the tools, dials and knobs. People really focused in on the knob dials. Massless Star twinkle capture. MS screams creators, creators, creators. Microsoft Paint and 3D, state sponsored LULs. You got a respect. I actually like. I like Microsoft dials in on creators. That's not bad. It's pretty good. Yeah. Any any objections? Yeah. Although everybody wants Hollow Vect because it's Diamond Club and everybody wants Jaime to get in line. I kind of do too. Well, then do me ready for Hollow Vect. Can you use the knob with all knob? It's not a knob. Not using a single title has not been. It's not a knob thing. It's not a knob. It's a nip. Yeah, it's the Microsoft nipple. Please. I was going to say and I forgot because we moved on. Can you use the Microsoft dial with the Hollow Vect? I guess you could because it's there's an 8086 and then create a 3D version of Tempest. It has a not a knob. It's got a dial already there for that purpose. Exactly. I want to port Tempest. I want to port Battlezone for sure and maybe maybe. I don't know if you guys ever played the Star Trek. Yeah, that's great. And the Star Wars one was great. Yeah, oh, oh, Star Wars. Yes, the Star Wars one. I don't know. You could put that just another. I didn't hate any of them. They're all good. That was a dude Astroids. The original Astroids is all vector. We have a version of Astroids and like thought up where you're not actually just shooting them. You're navigating in the field. That's that's what we want to put together. That's so cool. You know what? It's winning. I'm going to go with I know Hologram girl. You got to go with the people, Tom. This is their election. No nobs, no dials. I'm putting a comma after Graham. I ain't no Hologram girl. Nob, oh, no. It's really interesting. I what's happening to that word. It's it's it's getting thrown around so much with dial. Yeah, oh, Hologram. Yeah, because I mean, Hologram is the is the plate, right? It refers to the usage of the plates. Yes. But we think of it as the image that the plates cause. Right. Actually, we think of it as what we've seen on TV. Yeah, yeah. Which is better in some ways. So it's going to be it's just going to be one of the things that usage is going to make it true. They'll be called holograms later. Yeah, yeah. This is the last hurrah of it's not a hologram. Not a hologram. Not a hologram. But what you call it? I mean, it's a holographic projection. It's a holographic projection. Holography. Yeah. Well, holographic has turned has has meant stuff that contains 3D information, like complete 3D information. It's a holograph. Have a holographic brain. You can have a holographic universe. It's vector magic is what I call it. Vector magic. It's not vector. Oh, I guess. It's totally vectors. Well, the Hall of Vect is vector magic. Yeah. You know what I'm afraid about vector? Vector means you have it's so that everything's so small. Like when I deal with vector stuff just for images and yeah. Art, it's so small. Well, it's all it's it stores everything as a mathematical equation. And yes, it doesn't. That's math. All you're doing is saying stretch the numbers, you're not actually stretching. Well, that's where you can scale so easily. That's what makes it so awesome. Yes, you can you can you can animate. The best. So what eventually Hall of Vects will be projecting our movies that we go to see. And then the people who make the best ones will win hologrammies. Oh, I like it. So wait a minute. You just go home with a little little sticker that you put on your skateboard. Check out my deck. I've got your baseball cap that you just buy. Yeah. So how much is the temperature differential when you on the blown air from the air? It's actually very it's the trick is maintaining it. And and we do that with with velocity. Just laminar flow. But it's it's a pain about to maintain it, you know, to make it as large as as we do. It's it's the hardest part. It's just keeping it there. There is a version that we're working on, which is going to be like like for a commercial use. It's one foot by one foot by one foot. And that is this is torture. Do you have? Go ahead, Roger. Oh, no, I just wanted to get did you run into trouble with different ambient temperatures, like if you're in a more humid environment versus a choice. The most amazing example happened when on the version one, which was basically the same thing, but with no content whatsoever, kind of like the timings in Claire that you would get on the mail back back in the day that would have absolutely nothing on it. And I go to San Francisco and show it to Darren kitchen. And we set it up and it was one of those beautiful days where it's it's, you know, 72 degrees and the humidity is kind of high, but nobody has air conditioning or anything on. And it was exactly the same temperature that my stuff was coming out. So there was nothing there. So nothing happened? Nothing happened. Darren actually, and I don't think he said it, but I actually had to turn the air on so we were freezing during the whole shoot so that we had a temperature differential. Since then we've compensated. But yeah, it's it's one of those things where, you know, it was just the right condition. So what we've done is, is now we maintain, we forcefully, instead, we forcefully maintain a difference between the. The same effect as to why you see mirages or was it on when you drive in a hot highway, you see that? Yeah, it's exactly the same effect. It's the same effect as, as when again, a hot something hot like a, you would see like a little fuzzy thing. The only difference is that we can keep it in a layer and we can keep it in a region. And it took forever. It was, it was, we had, there's two parts of the technology. There's the emitter part, which has its own little, little interesting things. And then the stage part. And we had the technology, we had the data structure, which we call Vects because they're not really, you know, it's, it's called Vect object. And it took forever. It took forever to do it, but once it happened, it was like magic. And, you know, even our brains can, can explode it. It's cool. Yeah. So it won't work in a non-atmosphere environment. Nope. It won't work in space. I'm sorry. For now. For now. So hold on a second. Can I, can I say what this looked like the first time you showed it to me? Sure. Is that okay? Yeah. So for the, Yeah, go for it. Yeah. So, so Jaime brought his prototype. I don't, it was not the first one you developed, but it was early up, very early on. And it was a spinning playing card. It was the, it was the emitter prototype. Yeah. And it wasn't a playing card. Actually it was a business card, I think maybe. It was a piece of a Coke Zero, I think, because it was the right shininess. Really? It was a can? No, like from. Oh, right, right. Okay. So it was a piece of a Coke Zero box spinning around to provide the pallet for the emitter to paint on. And like the fact that, and then I remember at one point you brought a version where I won't go into too much detail, but you could kind of see the strings a little bit. And as far as like the vapor, and now it's just, it's magic. And it's just light appears in the air in front of you. It's crazy. It's really interesting because you get used to it very quickly. Like it's magic for like maybe 20 minutes and then you're like. Like anything, right? And then it's just like, oh yeah. We've always been able to paint three-dimensional Star Trek enterprises in front of our faces. Oh, and it's kind of interesting and challenging to maintain the complexity down. Like for example, Scott sent me this, or I saw this beautiful fish and I tried to make it and it was, it had all these intricate little feet and teeth and stuff. So it looks a little bit not as good as I would like it, but hopefully we'll work on it. It blows my mind. Oh, you know what I meant to ask on the show and I forgot to ask. So we talk about vector scaling easily. How could this scale? Can you foresee this being like, okay, imagine a temperature controlled arena with 20,000 seats in it. Did you project something out in the middle of a basketball court that could be a big giant? I think so. There's two parts of this technology. One is the device and one is the data structure and the math, because the only way we can make this fast is has a lot of math. There's not a lot of calculations being done in iterations. It's not a lot of cycles. We try to just, you know, math the crap out of this. So that part, again, will endure and we'll live on for later systems. So if at some point we're not doing just air, but we're actually levitating particles and spending them around in particular fashion, we can still use the designs that we make now and just take it there. There are some, to this particular technology, there's some limits. I think the limit's gonna be like a human size. I think beyond that, it gets very complicated and you start, you know, because air currents is one of the most chaotic things in the world and it's helping us because the little eddies and the little turbulent things and the little, there's almost like a virtual particle environment where you have like little bits of condensation and then it disappears and that makes this beautiful sci-fi looking little bits of light. But I think there's a limit to that. However, the data structure, the whole system should be able to be managed to, should be able to grow and expand because again, the basic data structure is geometry. It's point A over here and point D over here and make a line and then another one and that should, you know, exist. That sounds so cool. Just imagine if you're at a, I don't know, a Lakers game and they had a big 3D Lakers loan, just rotating in space out on the court. The thing that came to me, the second I saw that one little dot and you have to understand that I was going mad to a certain extent and, you know, things looked like lines and things looked fuzzy and there was spinny, all kinds of spinny things and the second I got like that one dot, I'm like, okay, there's gonna be all kinds of stuff made with this, you know, a signage and I apologize to the world in advance because I think this is gonna be like a neon madness at some point and then they're gonna scale it back and do something else. That's so cool, man. It's an honor. I feel like we're at some weird ground floor thing and you're gonna like go on to make a huge splash with this and we're all gonna remember that humble time you were on DTNS with us that day. I remember when Jaime wasn't a jerk, he was really personable and now he's just great. We interviewed Jaime Ruiz Avila back in 2016. Now he's doing key notes about flying to Mars. I'm still in my basement doing a daily news show. Guys, you have each inspired a lot and pushed me along and that's, it would have been not been possible without you guys and without, you know, chat room and the tad pool. They're the big authors of this feast. Chat room. Super cool. Well, I can't wait to see a 3D rotating Henry. Henry. Yeah, we must obey him, especially the holographic version. Or Dave the Duck. What I wanna do is try to get, you know, Scott and Vikinglass and some of our artistic friends to try to make, you know, images with, or artistic characters with 100 lines. Yeah. 3D or they can just be flat. It's like Twitter for your art. You have this much resolution, go. For now, for now, I, you know, hopefully by the time production in this hit, we can tweak it up a little bit. 140 vertices of articulation. It's perfect. No, I would love that. I'm dead serious about wanting to give you something. As long as I can hear to whatever the rules need to be, I'm happy to do it. I would love to do it. 100, you can, like for example, the fish was like 280, but what happens is it flickers. And when you can see it, when you see it, it's fine. But when you're trying to shoot it, you have a refresh rate issue. So 100 is like the best. And we can shoot it at 50 Hertz, which is nice. It looks, your brain gets confused. It actually thinks it's a thing. And you made a fish. So if it's less than 100, we're okay too? Yeah. Okay. Or it's free. And it can be 3D. And you can just tell me, you know, move this corner out or it can be flat and we'll spin it and move it around. Okay, I'm on it. I'm making a note right now. Well, I'm gonna let us all go. I'm still in the midst of posting, but thanks everyone. Thank you again, Jaime. Oh, my pleasure. Thank you. And we will talk to you folks tomorrow. Bye.