 Right. So we're about to kick off our final event in the momentum series. I guess we're about to start. I am the 2021 NCP. Dustin is the topic of breaking the bamboo ceiling with a specific focus on young Asian or Australian leaders. I am very excited to do this and it's a real privilege to be part of a very important discussion that is personally close to my heart. Before we continue, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands we're all on today. Here in Perth, we're on the lands of the Wajah people and I wish to acknowledge and pay respects to their continuing culture and the contributions they make to the life of this city and this region. So before we kick off, we'd like to share that we expect that the panel discussion will run for one hour and we will also have a Q&A chat box open for anyone who wishes to direct a question to our panel tonight. Now being conscious of our time limitations, we won't be able to go through everyone's questions so apologies in advance but our panel and myself will do our best to cover your questions near the end of our webinar. Now on to our panel discussion tonight. Joining us here at this session, we have a very distinguished and accomplished panel. Joining us, we have Ms Diane Smith-Gander, AO, Chair at Zipco and the NCP Business Champion. We're also joined by Mr Brandon Augusten, General Manager for International Relations, Marketing, Trading, Shipping at Woodside Energy. We're also joined by Ms Eva Chau, Account Director at PWC's Business Align and Connect. And finally, we are joined by Ms Rachel Tuntula, a fellow NCP scholar and the Perth Hub Manager at the ASEAN Australia Strategic Youth Partnership. A very warm welcome to you all. And opening this session, we are very excited to have Ms Lisa Wright. She is the Assistant Secretary of Scholarships and the Alumni Branch at DFAT. So over to you, Lisa. Thank you, Y. Thank you for your warm welcome. I'm speaking to you all from Ngunnawal Country and I'd like to pay my respects to the elders past, present of this country and all the lands on which participants join in today and also to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander participants in this event tonight. So greetings from Canberra from that cool autumn evening here. A warm welcome to all our guests, New Colombo Plan Scholars and Alumni, Mobility Students and those who are joining us from overseas. I'm delighted to welcome you all to the fifth session of the New Colombo Plan Momentum 2021 series. Tonight's event, as Y. said, is entitled Breaking the Bamboo Ceiling, a focus on young Australian Asian leaders. Today's session I think is very timely, as many of you will know, last month saw the release of the Asian Society and Business Council Australia's Asia Task Force Final Report recommending and highlighting the importance of championing Australia's rich Asian talent. For my part, I'm really pleased to be with you here today and part of this webinar for two reasons. The first reason is the important role that New Colombo Plan plays in supporting emerging young Australian Asian leaders and in supporting and growing Asian literacy and links and the links that literacy has to business, education and employment outcomes for Australia. The second reason I'm pleased to be with you is my own abiding professional and personal interest in Asia. I have lived and worked in Northeast Asia and Southeast Asia for many years and I've also not that long ago served as Australia's Assistant Secretary at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade in the Southeast Asia Mainland Bilateral Branch, where I was covering the political and economic interests in five Southeast Asian countries. So really pleased and really looking forward to today's discussion. As I said, we're privileged to be hearing today from Diane Smith-Gander, AO, Chair of the Flop Limited, CDAC, Safe Work Australia and an MCP Business Champion and she'll be joined on the panel as well said by Brendan Augustin, Eva Chai and Rachel Tantula. I know that Diane, Brendan, Eva and Rachel will have valuable perspectives and insights about the bamboo ceiling. Thank you to all our panelists for supporting the momentum session. Once again, I welcome you all to what promises to be another exciting discussion in the momentum series. Back to you, why? Thank you for your remarks, Lisa. So I guess we'll now kick off with our first discussion point for tonight. Given the fort leadership around what business and government can do to increase representation and utilisation of Australia's diverse and rich multicultural communities like the Asian-Australian communities, what can Asian-Australian communities or individuals do to break the bamboo ceiling? And I would like to begin to direct this question to you, Diane. Thanks very much, Ryan. It's delightful to be here. I'm glad there's so many participants as well. Look, I wish I had a silver bullet that I could offer everyone to say, well, we'll just do XYZ and off we all go. But I don't think there is a silver bullet. I think this is an issue that's going to take a lot of tenacity and a lot of effort to overcome. It's disappointing that it's like that, of course, because it's absolutely undeniable that there are huge benefits from having diversity in all of its forms, in leadership, in all of our forums so that everyone's voice is heard. And I know that from decades of gender advocacy. So what can we do as individuals and what should we expect our business leaders to be doing? Well, I do think this is very much an individual effort. So the sorts of things that I do are trying to make sure that I do have diversity at the board tables where I sit. And so I was really delighted when Ning Long agreed to join the National Board of CEDA. I'd known Ning for a number of years through Chief Executive Women and she had retired from executive life a little bit later than me. I'm a little older than her. And so she had reached out to me to say, could you help me work out how to step the pathway to a non-executive portfolio? So she was really asking me to mentor her. The thing, of course, that happened for me was that I got some reciprocal mentoring from Ning because I started to understand the depth of difficulty for Asian Australians in being able to achieve leadership position. So I really started to learn about the bamboo ceiling. So I think at an individual level it's making sure we have these relationships which allow us to understand and then to know who are the people that we're able to suggest, join different boards and so forth. And I think everyone can contribute to that. I went to a lunch today where I was speaking and I said, may I bring a guest? Oh, of course they said. And so the guest that I bought with me was Shelley Cable who's a Nong'a woman, CEO of Generation 1 and Shelley did the acknowledgement of country, acknowledged Wajah Nong'a budget which I will do now and pay respects to elders past, present and emerging. And at the end of her acknowledgement, Shelley looked around this group of 25 very senior business leaders and said how wonderful it was for her to have a seat at the table, to be able to hear what we were going to talk about and to contribute her views but that she would ask every single one of them that every time they organised a similar lunch or event, please make sure that you added an extra seat at the table and you put an indigenous person in and it was just absolutely charming the way she did that ask. And so I think that's the sort of thing that will really build those bridges and make it very clear that people are ready to step up, take their seat at the table. So sadly, no silver bullet, we're all going to have to do our bit. Great. Thank you for sharing your remarks, Diane. And I want to bring Brandon into this discussion right now, especially coming from the private sector, from business, how can Asian Australian communities or individuals do to break the bamboo ceiling? Thank you very much, Juan and Waiwan. And thank you very much to DFAT's New Colombo Plan program and the alumni network for organising this very important discussion. And I'm really honoured to have been asked to share some personal views on a topic I'm actually very passionate about. I would like to join the others in acknowledging the traditional owners of the land where I'm speaking from, the Wajah people of the Nungan Nation. I acknowledge and respect their continuing culture and the contribution they make to the life of my city and region. I think the first thing that Asian Australians communities are individuals and I speak from experience in all of this is to get the data. I think in my sector, Diane, you're very familiar with it. We tend to be very data driven. And the data speaks for itself. As they say, the numbers are in, the bamboo ceiling is real. It's not a myth. I had the very fortunate, I guess, encounter with a couple of reports that were put, that were jointly published by a few different organisations but headed up by the Australian Human Rights Commission called the Leading for Change reports of 2016 and 2018. And those two reports were really a bit of experience for me because of the staff diagnostic provided on the state of under representation of people of non-European background at both CEO and C-suite levels across government. I think I'll just go to the summary. 2018, people of non-European background made up 21% of the population, but there were only 4.7% of this cohort, not just CEOs, but CEOs and C-suits. So very stark. Better because when I started my professional life in 1993 at DFAT, there was a lot of belief among friends, work colleagues, policymakers, and indeed some politicians that within a few years, Australia would be seeing its multicultural dividend play out in so many ways. But returning to Australia in 2013, after many years overseas, I found that the promise that time would play its transformative role at not delivered. But three, because these reports were the first that I'd seen the devoted serious resources to the research of this tricky terrain, counting the numbers as challenging as it is to do. The data moved for me beyond the anecdotal observations which have come up in conversations, mostly private, but some public. I had been party to over 28 years working in government in Australian diplomacy and in the private sector, both here in Australia. The data showed that there was indeed a gap between the facts on the ground and the hubris filled claims made by many politicians of all colors that Australia is the most successful multicultural country in the world. The data allowed us to have a more robust discussion about the reasons why the disparity, why the outcomes have simply not been fair, how come we are lagging behind other migrant countries such as Canada, New Zealand, the US, the UK, even France, Netherlands, Germany, on some metrics. But at the end of the year, I did find the report sweet because the data provided me and provides Asian Australians, provides Asian Australian communities with the impetus to move from lament to implement. Indeed, it opened the door to a personal journey as to how best to advocate for change. It opened the door to the wealth of information and practical case studies from Australia and other countries on how societies and individual organizations can achieve change in progress. How to learn, as Diane said, and Diane has great experience in this field, how to learn from the great work already pioneered by other communities, gender, sexual orientation, individuals that are differently abled. Indeed, within my own company, Woodside, the fantastic work done by these interest groups and the response by the company to improve inclusion and diversity meant that we did not have to reinvent the wheel. And I'll keep coming back to this. We do not have to reinvent the wheel, but we need to step up, step up as Asian Australians, whether you're in the beginning of your career, in the middle of your career, probably the last 25% of your career where I think I find myself in, there are things that you can do. They may not be easy. They may be uncomfortable, but there are things you do not have to reinvent the wheel, right? So you have to, and I guess I'll just summarize in three things. Make people aware of the data, make people feel that you have a community that doesn't feel included, right? Because you need to do that. Otherwise, people think, people do think that we live in this kind of multicultural, most successful country in the world. So if you do not raise it, and when I'm raising it with people, they say, oh, I didn't realize that. Okay. Putting forward other models of leadership, and I think from the gender, from the women's organizations, they do this very effectively. There is not one model of leadership. You don't have to be six feet, five male with a deep voice wearing black suits every day, right? And we're seeing that change, thank goodness. So that's an example. And thirdly, and this is difficult, but again, I take it straight out of the people of the gender equality community. You have to advocate for some degree of counting and targets, because that's the way that the gender community, the gender equality movement was able to make progress. So thank you. I've already spoken over time, but I wanted to give you that initial, I guess, blast of where my thoughts are on this issue. No, thank you very much for your remarks, Brandon. And definitely there's a lot of points in there which I want to further elaborate, especially when it comes to using data to verify our funding. I think that's something we're very good at as a community in solving problems and context issues, such as the boundary ceiling. And I want to bring... I don't think you'll be really naughty, why? You know I'm always going off script. But that's a really important point that Brendan made. And one of the things that was in the budget, which we didn't talk about when we were preparing for this, is that the workplace gender equality agency is going to have a review done of its legislative instrument. And I think it would be absolutely wonderful if the workplace gender equity agency became the workplace diversity equity agency. So maybe Lisa and others in the department who could navigate the bureaucracy might find some willing people who might like to add that into this review of WGEA. Because I know from Libby Lyons who just retired as the head of that agency that the number one question she got all the time that she couldn't answer was for cultural demographics of our workforce. And so I think this is exactly the point Brendan is making. So there's something that could be done by the department. No, thank you for your input Diane. And please feel free for any of the panelists to jump in if you feel there's a discussion point we need to elaborate on. And what I was wanting to get to is that exact point of diversity, the greater narrative of diversity. So Eva, this is where I want to bring you in in this discussion, especially when Brendan and Diane touched on the points regarding to gender equality and the great progressions that has been made from there. There's a woman of Asian descent coming from up here. Do we lose why for a second? Why? We lost you for a minute. Is it just me? Yeah. No, I think that's all. Yeah, you're back now. You might have turned your camera off, which means we're going to miss all your fantastic background. And also I'll get you to repeat the question. Why? Because I missed half of it. Yeah, it looks like everyone's still with us. It must be a connection issue here. So what I was getting to before we got cut off is Eva, as a woman of Asian descent, could you bring in your experiences with those instances or not just in bamboozling itself, but that issue of greater representation and diversity in roles in the private sector where you're from? And what kind of approaches or solutions have you done for yourself to break through those feelings? You know, for Brendan and Diane, I absolutely right. What you don't measure is actually harder to change. And I'm really, really fortunate that throughout my career, I have worked with organizations that are very supportive of the value that Asian Australians bring to the organization. So Lisa mentioned the report earlier, and I would highly recommend that if you have a chance to download the report, it's called A Forgotten Advantage. It's definitely well worth reading, but from my personal experience, back to my current organization, for instance, we were talking about measurements. So PwC has got a very considered policy and target that it wants to achieve to embrace not just gender, but also cultural diversity and inclusion. So to give you an example, 48 percent of our staff and 20 percent of our partners are actually from non-anglo-celtic backgrounds. So I'm so proud to work for an organization like this. And the other thing I have noticed as well is we are starting to see these incremental changes. Diane mentioned Ming Lung just now, and I'm so privileged to know someone by the name of Ivy Chen. So it's not only Ivy on the board of Horizon Power, but get this. On Horizon Power, the CEO is a female, the chair is a female, and so they have Ivy who is an Asian Australian, and they also have a First Nation board member represented. And also Football West, four out of nine board members are female, and Ivy is Asian Australian. And not only that, just to give an example of how someone like her returns to the community, she also is involved with an organization called Multicultural Futures, which encourages new migrants to be integrated into the community, not just through English language training, but through community initiatives like sports. So these are all the wonderful initiatives out there and examples out there that I think need to be celebrated. And perhaps I'll just finish with a very personal, very personal example or incident that happened to me 30 years ago when I, not long after I came to Australia, so back in the day when people actually ring up sworn taxis to make a booking because there wasn't an app back then, and there were people in the radio room taking a booking, writing it on a slip of paper and sending it to the radio room. So that was my first part-time job. And not long after I started, whilst you are in training, you would have someone sitting next to you whilst you take the bookings. And I remember one time I take this call and all I said was, good morning, sworn taxis, how can I help you? That was all I said. And the caller at the other end said to me, I don't want to talk to you, put an Australian on the phone. So it wasn't even as if I had a chance to make a mistake. She heard my accent, she didn't like it, and she wanted someone else to come and take the booking. So the lady that was helping me taped, she quickly took over the call, but she could also see that I was in shock. So she took me to the tea room and afterwards the entire radio room came up to me. It wasn't like I was crying or anything, I was just in shock and I didn't know how to handle it. But it just came to me, they made sure I was okay the next day, people were bringing me a little presence. And I just thought for every instance and for every little racist encounter, if you call that a racist encounter, I have got eight to ten other people who rally around me to support me and help me grow and become a better person in the workplace. And I think all of these examples should be celebrated and acknowledged. So thank you for your courage in sharing such a deeply traumatic event in your personal life. I mean, I think it's very important in this whole entire discussion is to talk about those lived experiences that our communities have experienced and really provide a platform where we can come together and share those stories and offer that support mechanism. And this is where I also want to bring Rachel to this discussion, especially coming from a young person's perspective. Rachel, would you be able to share with your own lived experiences where there has been instances where you felt that there is a bamboo ceiling and what kind of approaches or what approaches have you witnessed that helped you break through it? Thank you for that question, Wei. So yeah, I'll begin with a bit of background. Like I guess address the question. So I'm five foot two. I was born in Jakarta. I'm a first generation Australian, I speak Indonesian at home. I'm also young, female and relatively self-sufficient. So it seems that if there's anyone who's more unlikely to break the bamboo ceiling, probably because of my height more than anything else, it's me. But in all seriousness, this topic is one that's very close to my heart. And I feel very privileged to have this opportunity to partake in this discussion today alongside a panel of very distinguished speakers. So I've spent the last two years leading the Perth operations of the ASEAN Australia's two youth partnerships, building relationships, knowledge and engagement and empowering youth voices across Australia and Southeast Asia. But I guess in my own first or last, there have definitely been occasions where I have hesitated to put my hand up for an opportunity, whether it's applying for a program or a scholarship or taking up a leadership role in an organization, because of my own self-limiting belief, because I felt that I didn't fit the profile of the people who had gone before me. And because of a lack of Asian-Australian representation in leadership that I look up that I could look up to. I guess this is why, and like all the teams that I work across, we definitely focus on pushing for diversity in our team. Because I think it's so important to be able to look at problems from different perspectives and just approach things in a more creative way. And so I guess if there's one thing that I've learnt about how I can break the bamboo ceiling, it's from my passion for ASEAN as a flyer in my cheerleading team. I've wanted that the most important thing, especially when you get thrown into the air into an unknown destination, is the support structure that is ready to catch you when you fall, ready to practice with you hundreds of times until you perfect the stunt and ready to believe in you and help you fly. And to draw the analogy to Asian-Australian leadership, right now there are very few visible Asian-Australian leaders. I challenge you to count more than five, you know, the names that I've said from Penny Wong and Lucy Leong. So what I'm asking everyone listening in today is to be that critical part of the cheer squad who form the support base that bolsters and propels Asian-Australians into leadership positions. No, absolutely. And thank you for your remarks, Rachel. That is quite well said. Do any of the panelists have anything to add or share on top of what Rachel has discussed in terms of what can we do to actually increase greater representation and diversity in not just positions of leadership, but across a great range of roles in different Australian institutions and organisations? I think one thing, can I just say, either by the way, that was definitely racist. They didn't want to talk to you. That was pretty clear. And that's awful. And I'm so sorry that this happened to you. But what a great demonstration then of the ethos of that company and that radio room for everyone to get around you and provide you with that support. And don't you hope that happens everywhere. So this is a pretty straightforward thing. You know, if you want to be, you know, in a leadership position, we'll have a close look at the organisation that you're joining. And at the moment, you know, there's a huge war for talent going on. We know that with our borders closed, you know, there's going to be a real need for organisations to look within themselves, you know, to start poaching people from other organisations. And so now is a great time to really ask the question of whether organisations you may be looking to work for are going to provide you with the appropriate settings to be able to achieve and move into leadership positions. And so I think a really good way, you know, as you know, we've heard already is to sort of look and see what's already going on there, but also to ask the question about how important it is to the organisation and what are they doing to foster their diverse talent. And certainly if they're starting to move on that as gender, then that helps everybody for sure. But I think those questioning, you know, asking for transparency, because when you're looking for a role, you're not in a position to demand things too much. You want to see yourself in a good light there. And we know the double bind exists that if you're too aggressive when you're in a minority, you might get a disproportionately negative response to it. But I do think being very tactically clever about where you take roles is a really important piece of the equation. Thanks, Diane. I mean, Rachael, in your comments around the visibility, the lack of visibility, I think a very simple thing that individuals can make or either, you know, yourself, or getting others to make the point is exactly that. Because Australia, and it goes to your point and your story ever around the fairness, because why did people surround you? Because it was unfair. You were treated that way. And Australia has that deep sense of fairness, a fair go. And it's not fair, the outcomes that we see. It's plainly not fair, because it is so lacking in representation. So I think as individuals, as organizations, we can bring that to the notice. And every time, I've only been speaking up about this really in the last two years, right? Because I come back from Australia about 10 back to Australia about eight years ago, it's taken me a while. But every 10 conversations I have, I ask this trick question, how many Asian leaders can you name when I had dinner tables, at functions, at conferences? Just like the question you ask, and people go, hmm, yeah, that's right. Very simple thing. Very simple. I like practical things people can do is make people aware. And I think the work that you are doing at this moment, the Asia link has done by when they convene the first Asian Australian Leadership Summit, the work that the Australian Human Rights Commission has been doing in laterally bring that awareness. And when you bring that awareness to people, I think that sparks off a thought around, hey, hang on, there's something wrong. And when you make the comparisons to Canada, the US, to the UK, and especially to New Zealand, you know how Australians hate to be defeated by New Zealand or any kind, and you make that comment, you know, New Zealand had a governor general of Indian background, pigeon Indian background, I think 15 years ago, they have people of color in their cabinets for many years. I just came out, I saw I was a bit late from a conference on a great African leader called Senghor of Senegal. He was an African in the French cabinet in 1955. Think about the demographic of the Australian cabinet in 1955. And you make these observations, and it does resonate with the people that claim that fairness is a strong value. Absolutely. And thank you for sharing those remarks, Brandon. There's something in your points that you may just stand out. I want to delve a little bit deeper for our panelists here today. In terms of how do we actually can take greater advantage as a country and embrace a rich multicultural community, utilizing their linguistic skills, cultural knowledge, and even perhaps global networks that not only benefits the members of the Asian diasporas, but including other communities in Australia. So how do we promote those capabilities of communities to really help transcend our nation and build a very strong social cohesion? I might start with you Eva on this question. In my role working in PWC Business Align and Connect, where we go out and we work with a lot of tech clients, we talked about the digital or we touch on the digital economy just very briefly just now. And what I've noticed is with the whole technology and with whole digital transformation space, there is actually the wall starting to break down slowly. So if I give an example of entrepreneurs who are actually of Asian Australian background, and these are big names that many of you would recognize, Air Wallet, Air Tasker, Show Poll, a fashion retailer, Deputy who does shoe rostering software, and various other examples. They have all been founded by Asian Australians. And you know what, their product is being used across Australia and worldwide. So I see that as a way of breaking down that barrier. And in terms of my own clients as well, I've noticed that in the tech space, whenever I attend a meeting, there is that diversity across the table. That is so beautiful to see that that gender diversity. And that's also that age diversity, where you have got someone in senior management, obviously more experienced, been older. And then you have got the younger people in the room as well. And you know what, they come from different cultural backgrounds, including Asia. And it is very, very, I just find that such a positive thing to see. And I expect more of that to come through. No, that's fantastic to hear. Thank you for sharing your remarks, Eva. Diane, being the chair of ZIPCO, how does technological advancement and globalization play in terms of developing a more coherent national policy and a sustainable set of programs that can engage the Asian, Australian diaspora to fill in the gaps and help really contribute to make Australia's economic prosperity and success? Yeah, this is a great question because we really aren't doing a super good job of it. And when you think from a ZIPCO perspective, one of the places where there is really leading change in payment systems, in how financial services are delivered to the community, to do it in a way that makes it more accessible, more attractive, it happens in China. And so we should be looking so closely into that Chinese market and understanding what's going on there. I don't think at the moment it's a place for Australian companies and financial services really to play and we just don't have the skills and the language and so forth to be able to do that. But we don't even watch closely. And so I think that's a great disappointment. And I've been reflecting, as people have talked about, who are the non-executive directors that I know that are involved? That are Asian Australians. And I was having a bit of a struggle to put together more than three or four names. And all of them women too, which intrigued me as well. So I do think there is a huge role for government and government is doing its thing. But I think there's also organisations like Advance that look for the Australian diaspora and look to see about using people who are already offshore. But there are so many gaps that we need to fill. I think it's going to provide some impetus hopefully for us over the next little while to be more expansive in the way we think about where we're going to source and find skills. Also, I think that in the way that COVID has operated, certainly we see in Western Australia a lot of people coming home, as it were. And some of these are people that have gone to Asia and there may be indeed Asian Australians that have gone to places in a little bit in the way that Australians used to go to England a lot. You're sort of going home for a bit. So I do think we'll see some change in settings. And I'm hoping that we can all find ways to leverage that to turn it into a positive. But like I said right at the beginning, it's going to be lots of little things. And I don't see yourself a bullet. Brandon, would you be able to define different roles, especially technologically wise, but beyond technologically wise, like from a cultural point of view, how can the Asian Australian diaspora play a significant role in shaping Australia's economic success? Thanks, Yvonne. And look, I think there's, I make two observations. One, and Eva is absolutely right. The presence and the influence of Asian and Turk entrepreneurs has been quite expensive, not just in the tech area. And if you open any list of top, whatever, richest people, young people, old people, middle-aged people, there's not so much disaggregation of list of richest people in the country. You find obviously a lot of representation among this group. But that does not translate, however, to institutional, I guess, organizations, right? So that is actually part of the same equation. Is it because, well firstly, there is an entrepreneurial tradition. But also, we find in many organizations, Asian Australians leave mid-career or early in the career to become entrepreneurs, because they feel that there is no real path forward to the senior leadership roles. And the pathway for an Asian Australian, there's so many role models for Asian entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, right? And so you go, okay, if I want to be successful, that's the pathway, right? Staying here, I'm not going to succeed as much as I want to. That's one observation. So how do you, I guess, how do you advocate for that? What things you can do? I guess beyond the societal and organizational advocacy, which I talked about earlier, it's about its individuals as well, right? So it is a two-way street. Every organization, every country, every state in Australia's case has its own cultural norms. And part of being working and living in society is how to retain your essential identity, but also adapt. And adapt and evolve with the structure you're in, whether it be a government department or a private sector organization. And I guess I took a lot of lessons in my career when I was posted overseas. Australians do that. People have to do that. That's when you're outside of the country, you take all this cultural coaching and cultural knowledge, you have to learn, you let the language, you let other people do business. So it's the same way, if you're working in an organization, before you can change it or try to change it or to be empowered to change it when you're in the right position, you have to, to a certain extent, adapt to that organization. And Min Long has been mentioned. I've listened to her once talk at the Asian Australians. I mean, she made some couple of observations that were very pertinent. She says, look, she doesn't drink. A lot of socializing and networking, which is very important in your career growth, is conducted around alcohol and drinking. So she said she would go to all the functions to drink water. And often the side conversations was about a sport. She said she didn't have a sporting bone in her body, but she learned the language of sport just to be able to make the small talk and to get involved and, and I guess mature the small talk to the serious talk. So I think as individuals, I think we in my, this is just my personal view. And, and I come, I speak from a position of privilege. So I can't be too evangelical about it because I'm naturally interested in what Australians are interested in, whether it be sport or politics or, so I'm, and, and, and also I have the great advantages, although I arrived in Australia as a 17 year old, I was privileged to have English as basically my mother tongue. So I felt confident enough in English. And other people have many more challenges of understanding the Australian culture. And I also grew up near an Australian military base. So I was exposed to Australia also through that. So, so, but I look at the struggle that Australians had, and I've had going to other cultures, whether it be West Africa. And so I'd encourage young, you know, all Asian Australians are people who are interested to develop their careers in organizations, learn the culture of the organization, learning that culture and adapting the spot of how you can influence it and influencing, you know, be strategic, you know, influence it when you, you know, as you go up the organization and make your points and learn the culture of the organization and adapt to it. But don't lose your identity, right? Again, this is so much learning from the, from the gender equity experience, you know, I think there's so much learning from that again on this point as an individual. Thank you. I think ways of loading, so I might just jump in and relate this, I guess, to my own experiences. So I guess it's working with ACIP. Again, this International Relations Youth Diplomacy sort of space, like it's all about building relationships. And in order to build relationships, you need trust. I guess one of the best ways to build trust is to connect with someone in speaking their own language. And I recognize that I have been privileged to retain my Indonesian language skills and complete some Mandarin and Japanese studies, but language skills on their own won't make or break a relationship. And I guess, in working with ACIP, I just don't, I don't just work with Australians and Indonesians, but also young people from across the town, Southeast Asian nations. So instead, what matters most is how you connect with people. And like the most effective way to do that is by showing a genuine interest in another person's culture, having an open mind and listening to what others have to say. I mean, there have been instances where I've had to pick myself up on my own unconscious biases, where I've hesitated to delegate an important task to another team member. And something that I've become a lot more conscious of is accent discrimination, which I guess relates to Eva's story from before, because accent doesn't determine whether a person is capable of performing a task, but rather highlights their courage and dedication in learning another language to the point of being able to use it in their study or work. And I mean, I've tried learning other languages and I don't know how hard it is to get to that point of fluency, particularly with English, with all of its rules and exceptions to those rules. So I guess I really admire the people including members of my own family. And I guess with ASIP itself, one example that is very meaningful to me was being able to fly to Jakarta for the inaugural Asian-Australian Leaders Forum, as I'd never met anyone on the team except on Zoom before. We flew in the night before the conference, and then off we went. But I guess throughout the process, we became such good friends, even though we all came from completely different backgrounds. And so I know that if I go and visit Vietnam, for example, I have connections there, and this has been at the heart of ASIP's work. From, I guess, forums where we do discuss topics like disaster resilience, counterterrorism, institutional economy, but also publications where we elevate young people's voices. And I guess relating it to Perth, where I've worked basically since the organization first started, to starting up the Perth hub here, because I've especially realised the importance of us as young leaders in reaching out to the community to support our cause, because no one's going to come to you and be offering you opportunities. You also do have to take that initiative. But also the importance of the established generation of leaders in being open to listen and opening up opportunities. And so we've been very fortunate to receive support from the UW Public Policy Institute, from the US Consulate General, the Perth US Asia Centre, and the ASEAN Alliance Council, and many others, which have enabled us to run the Indo-Pacific Future Leaders Program in Perth, as well as an ASEAN Women in Leadership event earlier this year. And so I guess my main takeaways are, like for young Asian Australian leaders and future leaders, to embrace and be proud of your cultural heritage, your languages, your traditions and connections, because not only will open more doors and opportunities for you, but it will also allow you to connect with a wider range of people and share those experiences. But also to embrace and be proud of your Australianness, to embrace opportunities, to be a trailblazer and don't set limits upon yourself. And it's also incredibly important to find or build a support network. And I guess the people from other backgrounds travel, of course, once we can, because I believe that being able to immerse yourself in the science, the sounds, traditions, and people of another culture is the best way to learn and build connections, which is exactly what the new Convo Plan does. But whilst we're still unable to travel, there's a lot that we can still do through self-parnished is, through food, through sharing a meal, through the arts, through festivals and celebrations. You know, given that as of June last year, there were over 7.6 million migrants living in Australia, and almost 30% of Australia's population were born overseas. There's so much potential right here in our own neighbourhoods. Great. Fantastic. Thank you for sharing your remarks, Rachel, and also Brandon, and every panelist here. I just want to reinforce how the points about the importance of that two-way street in cultural exchange. I mean, it's not one-way street in which we expect one individual to adopt a certain cultural leaf or be respectful to one practice. There is a two-way street, and I'd just like to share a quick life hack when it comes to holding water at a networking event. I'd just like to say that I've been drinking pure vodka, and no one questions me, because I'm a passionate eagle supporter, so it's all about embracing different cultures. I guess things our brain juices are really worked up now. I want to touch on a more delicate and sensitive topic that greatly relates to the topic we're discussing tonight, and one that's very relevant and very timely. And to give a little background, it's that obviously we're all fully aware about the impacts of the pandemic, and COVID-19 has been more than just a health and economic crisis, but a societal one as well. With reports of racism and a strand of nationalism on the rise worldwide, and Australia is no exception. Since the emergence of the pandemic, some Asian Australians have been made to feel like outsiders with some questioning their Australian-ness identity and sense of benign. So a question I want to post to the panel here is that in these times of need, strong leadership is required. So how do we form Asian-Australian leadership to safeguard alcohol use as a society in these challenging times? And I'd like to begin the discussion with you, Diane. Yeah, this issue, you know, let's call it for what it is, you know, of racism and, you know, people's reactions to things that they don't understand. And, you know, it's something that I think we really struggle with in Australia. So we shouldn't sugarcoat it at all. And it really does require some solid leadership, you know, at the political level and from business leaders to be able to try to address it, you know, in a more meaningful and tangible way. And I think that really strikes to some of the commentary that Brendan's making not so long back about, you know, you need to find ways in your organisation in your society to be part of it, but still to remain your own, you know, a personal authentic individual. And I alluded earlier to the double bind, which is something that women know well about, you know, that we're expected to be a particular way. And I think the same goes for, you know, Asian Australians, Indigenous people, people with different abilities and so forth. And when you behave in ways that you're not expected to behave in, you know, it can, you know, give you a response that wasn't quite the one you were expecting. And so I think until we have a better framing and a better, you know, stronger political will and will from business leaders to really push hard against this, any individual that falls into those buckets of women trying to achieve leadership roles Asian Australians trying to break through and have the contribution they can make understood really do have to take, you know, a great deal of attention, you know, to what Brendan was saying about making sure that you're doing it from an authentic place, but a place of also fitting in, which is not necessarily a nice message to have to hear. You know, and when I give this message to young women sometimes they say to me, that's really yacking and courage, Diane. And I say, well, actually, you know, if you're going to have to balance, do I feel courageous and aggressive and I'm making my point and, you know, giving everyone a bloody nose? Or am I actually continuing to progress and becoming more powerful and making a place where my voice is going to be stronger and I'm able to have more impact? Yeah, I think I'm going to trade off the latter rather than the former because that's what I did in my career. And so it's for people like me to run around now and give people a bloody nose because I'm in a position to do that and I can make the point strongly and it's for everybody else to work in the way that Brendan suggested they do. Why do you mind? I'll jump in here because I'm aware of time and I noticed there's a question from Dylan asking about the value that Asian Australians can bring, you know, and whether this value is still applicable today. So my perspective on that is value falls into two categories. One is the ethics, the value of ethics and the other one is actually the values you bring to your organisation. So if we talk about the traditional ethics and values, you know, I think there is a general consensus that when employers think about their Asian employees, they say, okay, Asians are very hardworking, they are trustworthy, they are reliable. So that's a general consensus around that. Then the other thing is, which is the point I am touched on and Brendan as well, is how do you actually convey the value that you bring, which is the value of your knowledge and experience to your organisation? Because when we are talking about breaking the bamboo ceiling, you are talking about, you know, reaching a senior position at the organisation and sometimes you actually have to convey your value more than your work ethics. You also have to convey your ambitions because people won't know what they are unless you tell them, right? So you have to be clear about the value at a senior level that you bring to your organisation, which is the broader knowledge of what you can add to the organisation, your industry knowledge and networks, and your instrument about the external environment. And that you have to convey to your organisation. And you know what? If the organisation is not the right fit for you, find another one with no ceiling and no walls. Right, thank you for your remarks. Eva, does anyone have anything to add to Dylan Goh's question regarding what you can bring as Asian strains that we can bring to organisations? I think we have touched upon a lot of many aspects. Any further comments or insights? So one document we use internally in Woodside, it is really quite serendipitous because it is kind of mentioned by the organisation when Woodside extended its diversity and inclusion conversation to include cultural background and faith recently. But also we, when we started here in Woodside, we started a cultural diversity advocacy group. We came across the same research from McKinsey that showed the increased value to the bottom line profitability of companies that had greater cultural diversity in its leadership. And it was like 33% more. I think on the gender that had, you know, top-quartile performance, right? 33% extra profit. On gender, top-quartile performance was something like 28%. So, you know, there is some research there that helps you make that point. Easily available. I would encourage Dylan to go to the 2018 report. It is online. And there are many other resources out there that, you know, that helps you frame that value discussion. But I also think the opportunity, however, to kind of quote Tim St-Polmasan in a paper he delivered at the 2019 summit where he said it is not just about value. It is, you know, if you just focus on value, you are missing the fairness argument. It is, you know, you have to put both value and fairness. If we're going to say, no, no, no, you're only going to do this if it is 100% related to your bottom line. That's good. But what happens about the fairness, you know? So you have to combine several arguments when you make your case. Thank you for your remarks, Brennan. Okay, we only have two minutes left. Tom has flew already. So I would like to thank all the panelists today for their excellent contribution. And I would just want to reinforce the great discussions we had today that there is a great diversity of experiences and thought leadership that has been shared today, which we will need to keep at the front of our minds in our endeavours to break the bamboo ceiling and encourage greater representation and diversity in our leadership. And I do want to apologise again to those that have asked questions and we haven't had the opportunity to address all of them. I could see some of the panelists have gone on to answer some of those questions. We have just so many fantastic and thought-provoking questions. So I'm sure these discussions will need to be carried on for many more hours beyond the session itself. So again, I would like to just acknowledge this is the last session of the momentum series. And I'm sure everyone can agree that this has been a wonderful wrap-up to a very successful series of momentum sessions in 2021. I would just want to borrow another one minute of everyone's time to say thank you to Mr Michael Bergman, the director at DFAT for filling in the shoes of IT support and has been working in the background behind the scenes to ensure tonight's online session ran successfully. And also a big shout out to Mr Brian Berghorn, the key driver behind the fantastic momentum initiative. I would also like to invite Ms Sarah Hooper, the Western Australian State Director for DFAT to provide some closing remarks to our last momentum session. Sarah? Thank you very much, Wei. And thank you very much to all of our panelists today. I'm sure everybody who's been listening in like me would agree this has been a really fascinating and interesting and important topic for conversation. And I think the questions that we're seeing fly on the question and answer screen a testament to that. I think in the virtual world, we give a round of applause by doing this and letting you know that we're all saying thank you very much. In light of the fact that it has been such an interesting discussion, we are over time. I think that we've come by with a lot to think further about. I certainly personally think the conversation has touched on a number of key things. You know, there's no silver bullet that it takes all of us working together that the statistics and the evidence is well in. And if I will take a foreign affairs and trade policy perspective and look at clear-eyed national interest, the value proposition is very clear and we need to do more to realise the full potential of our multicultural national profile. And we can do that by looking at how we continue to work in areas like gender and look at targets as mechanisms that we can use in very practical ways to make sure that we get a better representation through Australian leadership from the Australian Asian community. And I would just say also I think our panel really reflected in the way and regulating. I want to thank you especially that Australia does have a really bright future in this regard. We've got some leaders of the caliber of Diane and Eva and Brendan advocating and we've got young people who are willing to cheerlead and do extraordinary things away when it comes to drinking and fitting in. So I just want to say thank you very much for your time today. And I'm very glad that we were able to have this momentum series and bring together online our national new Kelenbo plan scholars and alum to collaborate and to hear from experts in the field. I'm very much looking forward to the opportunity to be doing this in person here in Western Australia and for those of you who are in Western Australia who I haven't met, looking forward to us building those relationships and those connections further as I work in this job. So thank you very much again. Thank you for your remarks Sarah. So that ends our last session for the momentum series. So thank you again to everyone who has participated. Thank you to our sponsors. Thank you to all the panelists and thank you to the organisers that have invited us to participate on such an important topic. So have a great evening everyone and cheers. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Thanks everyone.