 Hello and welcome to MIP TV and book review 13. I'm hoping it's going to be lucky for some. Not an unlucky number, a lucky number. It's interesting in the last book review that we did. If you're interested in the last book review you can check that out on the YouTube channel. It's in the playlist. It was a book about the arc of development of how therapeutic relationships have changed over, you know, the last 60, 70 years. And this one really kind of continues that because it's a book about intersubjectivity, which is something that has always interested me for a long time. So why don't you share it, Bob? OK, the book is called The Risk of Relatedness. In other words, the title says it all, the risk of entering a relationship. You know, the risk of the therapist as well as the client actually really relating in an authentic manner. So The Art of Relatedness, probably one of my favourite books of all time, by a French author called Chris Janaki. 2008. J-A-E-K-I-C-K-N-E. But you'll put it up below anyway. Yeah, I'll put it up, yeah. So I think of intersubjectivity. I'm always thinking of Petruska Clarkson's five relationship model. It's always kind of jolts me to that. Is that the same in this book or is he talking about a different direction, do you think? Well, he's concentrating very much on what's happening in the relationship. I know Petruska Clarkson was and had five different relationships in it. This is very much the relationship, very focused on the relationship between the therapist and the client and what happens in the space between them. So if you think of it like two subjects, we're now into intersubjectivity. What happens in that relationship between the two subjects, between the client and the therapist, in terms of the risk of actually being real in the room, sharing what's going on, this is the therapist, sharing what their experience is, how the client has impacted them and being in the relationship is a risk for a therapist to really embrace that and then the client, of course, that whole courage and risk to be themselves and to explore what's happening to them at an intersubjective level. I think he's really interested in that. Intersubjectivity is that idea of how we experience each other or the other, isn't it? Interpsychic is how we experience ourselves. I think it's an interesting book in the time we're living because there's a lot of talk about defensive psychotherapy, about almost returning back to those perhaps not exactly to Friday in days, but the days where the therapist is rejoined from the relationship because of fear of giving too much away about themselves. So it sounds like this book explores the risks and the benefits. Absolutely, and of course the gains being in that type of relationship because the therapeutic relationship between the therapist and the client is so rich in material for the client to be able to project out, to be able to practice for the first time how they are in a relationship and for the therapist to feedback the impact of how they are in that relationship, healthy or not, is a wonderful tool for how they're going to be in relationships in real life. Yeah, and it does link in as you're talking about that, Bob. I'm thinking a little bit about Clarkson talks about re-perventing style where the client is checking out and testing how the relationship is and the therapist kind of holding and containing the client emotionally and acting as a kind of, I don't know, modelling that adult type. Yeah, really important. Something that I think gets missed out occasionally in training, you know, Bob. It gets missed out a lot. And the other plea in this book, which I want to make a plea for, is for a therapist to be really real and relate and share the impact of that relatingness and that experience in that therapeutic dialogue, demands that the psychotherapist knows themselves well and has gone to therapy and has really explored their internal world so they can be as real as possible in a transparent well in that relating relationship with the client. Yeah, absolutely. It's just so important, certainly with clients with very fragile processes who are using the therapist as a kind of model to rebuild themselves. Certainly after issues around abuse or abandonment or that type of thing. Yeah, it sounds like a really important book. We're going to put a link in the description below. So if you go when this video finishes, click it on. I'll take it to the site. And also at the end, we'll put a picture up on the title of the book. The back book or your fab? Yeah, yeah. And in the spirit of intersubjectivity, I can hear, I can sense the passion that you have on this book, you know, and it sounds like quite an important piece of literature for you. It really, really does indicate how much the therapist has to go to supervision as well as well as therapy really to be real in the relationship with the client. Absolutely. Yeah, so that sounds like an absolutely essential read if you're a qualified practitioner or if you are a student of psychotherapy. So as always, we put this claim in. This isn't a paid product endorsement. It's just Bob sharing his love of books and sharing it to the audience, you know, the wider audience. And the 13th book. What a wonderful book. It is the 13th book. It's the 13th book. So, so there we go. And 13, it's fantastic. We're moving on a pace, Bob. So as always, Bob Cook, thank you very much. Thank you, Roy. Thank you.