 Well a very good morning to you and welcome back many thanks to Hillary for that engagement You know about the contraceptives we get now to change and shift the gear for just a minute and get to talk about youth and politics Well, it's exactly nine years since devolution took place. I rather happened in the country We have had quite a tremendous things change and of course devolution simply means, you know The dissolution of power and responsibility to counties that is in Kenya the 47 counties today. We get to ask Do young people really understand what devolution is how do we get to be to dissolve all these matter and get to Get to have an understanding of what devolution is all about Jenny myth is morning It's a set of young people from around the country, of course, and I begin from right next to me It's a star one boy who is a secretary of gender affairs faculty of arts at University of Nairobi. Yeah, I had to get that, right All right, all right, thank you. Yes, right next to right next to her is pee pee pee. Hey, pijing I almost say big B Caribou, so now he is their accountability and transparency party leader and of course at the my far, right It's investor surgeon who is not the youth leader Of course at RLP Which means Republican liberty party. All right Yes, thanks very much guys for making time even to join us on set Let's begin this conversation about youth and devolution and what's what's really the understanding as let me begin with you Do you think as young people really understand what devolution is? I Could say it's a yes and a no Because in this devolution we still have you point that When those counties, you know devolution is the situation of power. Yes in those counties We have youths who are who are there that's why I say it's a yes And I know some of them who don't know what to read what devolution really is I can say it Some of them are ignorant They don't want to understand and then the other part the other youths who don't know we can say it There is a lot of bureaucracy Like if you really want to know your ambitions you want to know what devolution is you want to be there at the Cake cutting then there's a little bureaucracy you you pass I you pass through a lot of people so that you can really understand What devolution is all right? I understand that devolution is a matter of interest But you have mentioned about the issue of bureaucracy and ignorance. How do we get these two together? Because ignorance yeah, I've said some of them they're ignorant like they really don't want to know what it is They just want to to get like it's so simple like they don't to get really to know what devolution is And then bureaucracy some of the young people are ambitious They want to know what what's the evolution is they want to be there at the cake cutting process You see like you don't to like later Like you don't know later. Okay. Yeah, yes pigeon Let me come to you because of what Esther has mentioned about the issue of bureaucracy and ignorance What do you think ignorance is the center stage of why most include or not vote devolution I want to say that first I like the concept of the evolution in terms of development Because I believe if you devolve resources because the two things need to be redevolved is resources and power If you do more than the sources power and the responsibility the responsibility of youths especially in the electrosystem Is whereby they elect those in power? We have power devolved from MCA to the governor But we also have resources that should be devolved in terms of industries and those other things to create your four youths To see youths are somehow even or in one way that they don't take serious part in being the people in power in that devolved system That's the first aspect How many youths get out to be the leaders the MC and whatever so that they be part of the devolved system second thing is resources How many resources are created in terms of the made the government how many industries are being devolved So you find because there's no more resources in the in the county level most youths will run away Especially the literate youth will run away to the cities when they run away to the cities It means we leave the country with no youths but only elderly so it becomes very tricky So once we get them involved in those two aspects and they get the right to start participating in those two aspects Then I think it will be the best solution for us Virginia mentioned about resources being devolved to the to the 47 counties and have a question What exactly do you want devolved for the youths to take their place? You see for the youth they form the manpower part of the country the manpower in fact Yes, if you devolve something like if it is instead of Constructing big rows in the city. What do we do that in the villages? They will be taking part as people who are working there if you do like dams or Oscars or schools there will be people employed there. So in this aspect they can get that resource But if you don't devolve or bring those Services close to them where they can get employed. You see you'll be putting them or you'll be making them transfer to the cities where they are Roads constructed they are building constructed so they will be living there and pigeon We have seen an upsurge in the in the recent release by sensors reports in the city That is in a rugby capital that the city the couple city and we have seen an upsurge of the people that are residing in Robbie County could these be some of the reason to why we are seeing this upsurge? Yeah, I'll say this you see if the concept was devolution of devolution was introduced if we could transfer this resources Why youths are coming to to to contest the CBD and the Nairobi if we could have like for example If you revive me as in Western most youths from Western will go back to me as if you could do the same Maybe in Kisumu those the fishery they'll go back there if you do the same in Morang and wherever You to go back there, but you see when I would come to the CBD He gets his job, but maybe after some period of time job is over. They can't go back home. They fear going back home It means they Congest CBD and start those other vices like either crime and whatever drug dealing because they don't want to go back home And there's no opportunities as you have seen most of the industry closing in the CBD's Nairobi and make some other big cities This is a cross in here, but youths transferred from the counties to the national where they're going So she'll be going back. These will help us a lot. All right And let me let's bring in Sylvester and talk about issue Sylvester They have mentioned quite a number of things that I believe they are concerned But I'd like you to address the issue of rather the question of why why do we have to relocate from other county governments all the way To to to the city because I mentioned about resources our resources They only issue to why we are having ourselves, you know moving to the city. Yes, of course for you to Like In our day-to-day life, you have to make money There is nothing like you are you're in power and you're not making money So at the end of the day, there must be an income which you are generating from this and When you're involved so the youth You see now the the county governments what they are doing is they are they are trying to create policies They are yeah for the youth in their absence like when you go to those boards for For the youth in the in the counties you will find most of them are being shared by old people Why because? They feel that this youth Are not able to stand for themselves They feel that this youth have engaged in those vices of the society like alcohol same drug abuse while in contrary they This drugs the the youths were selling these drugs. Maybe it's if they are even selling the drugs for the for the big bosses So you see at the end of the day, it's a it's a very big It's it's like a web Interlude it so this it's a big deal of corruption Let's come back to you as to because I understand that you have quite a vast knowledge in terms of devolution and Young people as you said quite a number of people are left out in terms of understanding how devolution even works Just bring us on board and tell us or other vices What are some of the things that we need to look at some of the proteins we need to venture into in terms of devolution? Okay We'll say like youths. Let's start with youths. How many but like it's 70 70 percent plus You know, right? So it's not everyone will be accommodated when you talk of devolution now How can we how can we help the others that will not take part in the evolution? We can start with business of which it is like our the government of Kenya There are very few people who can be supported But the very few people who are supported we can they can like enlarge that company for example They enlarge the the company and take the the very few people who are literate Well, and they'll be there to to say that devolution is really working because most of the people most of the youths Right now they are complaining Most of them. It's not all of them because There are still some people who have who have been taken, right? Yeah, that's why I'm saying devolution can also can also take business And help them help them and the the ones who will be help they will be there to say devolution is really working And also we can look at talents Yeah, and if talents are well well looked at I feel it will it will not be as it will not be something that will be of waste All right, and and PG now want to come over to you again and What what exactly do we do we have to what are exactly the responsibilities that we need to hit at? Because just talked about so much of the things that we can do other than you know even focusing on devolution Other things that we need to venture into as you mentioned earlier instead of us shifting now from our devolved units now coming back to Nobby what I think that we can do in our counties Thank you very much allow me say that this concept of devolution is not only not known to the youth But also to the general population because to my aspect is that when we hate devolution Of course the national we do talk of national government There's no national government We doesn't sit in any county in terms of the physical aspect because if you talk of the state houses in Nairobi The idea was if we were to hit devolution very well from the onset in 2013 By ensuring that all resources if possible even up to 70 percent of this revenue We see they're complaining if 70 percent of revenue want to go back to the devolved units and we have responsible leaders there Let me tell you in the five years time that you've been having those counties want to generate money back to the national government But you see the concept is that you devolve some responsibility with the less resources in terms of the finance A challenge I give youth is that instead of us Maybe complaining about the opportunities like that we can go to talents. We can go to business and any other thing Why don't you take them out of we are 70 percent? Why don't you join the policy and the leadership because you see Leaders make policies that affect us They make it from the county assembly to the national assembly. Why don't you be the policy makers? We have the numbers as we are saying we are over 70 plus Why don't use that number so that would be the policy makers to make policies in those houses by being elected For example and make policies that will favor youth in every level So that's also as a green area. We should venture to but the same way we should also invent in those other aspects like business But for example, what is the favorable environment for business? That's another question If you were to Saturday your kiosk Or either your business how many people are getting unemployed with the number of menus graduating with the issue of retrenchment Yeah, now tell me where is this person going to get that cashed by your business or to invest in your business This is a bigger challenge that we must ensure that at least we create that opportunity All right, and you have talked about responsive, uh, the leaders are afraid that responsibilities What what should they focus on too? If they want to save the bigger population They should focus especially most of their revenues or their budgeting back to the To to to to projects that generate revenue for example If you have to have an industry accounting First of all, you'll cater for youth employment So you ensure that youth are employed when they're employed you ensure that that country generates revenue from that From that industry of which Virginia have seen in several in several counties. Let's talk about machakos You've seen doing that, but on the other hand we still have young people from that place coming through the city This is more of a peer influence. Yeah to youths what we are saying ignorant To youth they haven't believed that a county government can be a heaven to them They still have that notion of Nairobi being the best place to be So the second thing is also even what you want to make heaven to them in the county is really heaven to them Nairobi has more resources that attract them How about the counties are they creating more resources that attract us back to the counties? So those are two areas that we must tackle if you have to go in a better way Have our leaders failed in terms of the devolution aspect They have failed to understand it and also in terms of the resources because you see for example Which houses approve resources going to the to the devolved units is both houses So if they were to be of good will for for devolution They could have supported evolution fully and send it to oversight to ensure that resources they sent to the county Are implemented you see so that we also have corruption for example Look how leaders resources are in the county government, but how much is going to people pocket instead of Helping youths or resources. So that's also another big area where our leaders are Right. Let me come to you Sylvester and let's let's let's do my mind around this question or like how our leaders failed and What exactly do we need to focus as young people in terms of our counties? Okay, yeah, I think all our leaders are failed From the national all the way to the it's all leaders are failed because You cannot say county County governments alone are failed the The youth while they hold only 15 percent of the budget or maybe even if it's 35 Then it's still way below the below the the half of the revenue So you see all these problems started with the with the national government with even the formation of national youth council and also all those youth youth councils or associations because You see you'll find there's a lot of bureaucracy In the national where the national government wants to control the the counties And also the national the national government will want to be the spokesperson of the of the youth So you'll find the youth running to Nairobi And they leave their counties Because I couldn't do I took one hour to tear All right And pig bin probably from what you mentioned and or even what Esther mentioned about the issue bureaucracy seems to be the emerging issue right now And I think we need to address the issue of bureaucracy because at the end of the day understanding of devolution We don't take place if we don't solve some of these issues How best can we solve this issue of bureaucracy for young people to understand and take their place in matters devolution Tomorrow said I'll say that in terms of bureaucracy When we devolve the unit we have the county government I think there must be direct responsibility and and and like Roads of the county government the right to do some Issues or decide some decisions without involving the national government Because if you see if the county government can employ people directly without any other board We can even have board for employment in county government so that we go directly there You see like how Uduma center was devolved people can easily move to any county office and get their services You see this is how we should also ensure that services are done there But the problem is who are the majority if you're talking of youth getting the The bureaucracy who are the majority in the bureaucratic ladder? They are not youth You get even a youth a youth chair of a county or a CS of youth. It's not a youth So for example getting this youth to convince this other guy to bypass the bureaucracy becomes an issue So we need to ensure that counties have full autonomy in terms of some other matters that affect us Especially in in terms of recruitment and whatever stuff and those supporting business and whatever thing They must have their fund and people coming to the national you see like we have national fund Let's talk about this issue. It's it's a topic the delicacy talk It's something a little question I want us all of us to discuss We've been talking about bureaucracy. We've been talking about ignorance My question is if we were given a responsibility and told aster I wanted to look into this particular issue and this particular docket Yet, you don't have the information. How do you plan to execute? your mandate You've been given a docket yet. You don't have the information and the even the ability you have no You have no knowledge about what's supposed to be done. Okay. How do you handle that? No, that is a problem that we're having in kenya right now Because we're talking that youths are in the county government But the problem is which criteria is being used to take those youths Maybe someone was a psychophant of a certain politician and he found himself in those county government Do you want to tell me that that youth has that had youth's interests and can be able to crystallize Everything every every youth's interest He hasn't because he was just put there and you must be loyal to your boss That is why I want to I want to emphasize that Youths are not not everyone not every youth has has the youth's interest All right. Do you think there there's an issue of who knows who? Yeah, exactly. We cannot be able to ignore that Let me hear from silvaster When we are having these dockets being advertised and then we see particular persons be given the dockets Is it an issue of who knows who according to your own understanding? I think these positions are tokens from those in power tokens. Yeah because If you if you even if you look from the top when the president is appointing people You say he's appointing somebody with 94 years. What do you call that? That's a token to to To his old allies So when you when you go to the counties, you'll find the ccs of the youth You'll even find the youth leaders there. They are not leaders Maybe some of them are their chief campaigners. Some of them are their relatives So at the end of the day, there is no participation from all the public So you find these people are just unpicked And they do not represent the interests of the youth Silvaster when you mention about the 94 year old and the like and the the the tokens they've been given about the The old generation and the like You know the nci ncic board has a 20 year plus young lady So it's not just an issue of like the age It's an issue of like what do we need to take place and it seems like no response to it No, that's just a drop in the auction That cannot add any value When you're one post and you want us to clarify Maybe if it could have been 80 of the positions in this country or Like that one now, maybe we could start celebrating but for now, I don't say how many do you need to have for satisfaction? Yeah, maybe at least uh because how many are we as youth in this country 70 plus percent Yes, so we should be talking of and then she mentioned about something called ignorance How how do you plan to to handle that docket when you're given? There is nothing like ignorance because This ignorance only exists in in the brains of those leaders where they think now that they love they'll pick the hand They'll unpick their people And now come back and with the reverse psychological Your addresses they'll come to you and tell you that you are not you are not keen on the On the on the on how the county works. You're not following city. What what what? What they're saying is just to cover up what what they did Yes, all right. Yeah, let's say pijin. What you got to say allow me a lot two things Assorted as a recent scenario Or by there was census And since I'm looking my number, whatever was developed from the national government to people in the counties Check on the selection criteria. How many you see when you think the village is caught that job? If not talking as he's talking about because even some were some were applied Pijin it's of it's of understanding that everyone from the census you get from a particular location Everyone that was counting people they were from that particular location Allow me to tell you that was not the reality in some areas and yes, we saw two only Yes, we only saw two on air. Now, let me tell you like for example You find the son and the daughters of the chief and the village and whatever stuff are being selected Let me tell you these are people have opportunity already These are people whether they're familiar a bit But when these resources go to the county and evolve Are the leaders really caring about the people who are less able because the resources target people who don't have maybe something to empower them But what do we do? I'm a chief. I'm a whatever person. I'll bring my son or my relative, you see So at the end of the day, even if we devolve this thing, they won't benefit few people Allow me. I like other aspect where youths fail. You say our name is 70 percent The challenge I made today as I'm telling you when I'm from here when I'm coming this ATP party is We have NYC as he's saying national youth council. Why 70 percent of youths being brought in a council not even in our ministry That's the first thing and it's our challenge Not not not the challenge of the guy. It's our challenge Why are you only becoming youth wing and party wing and delegate? So it's all about us Are we really ready to take the mantle to be the leaders instead of complaining in the villages? Are we really ready to be the policy makers? It's a big challenge. PG when you talk about uh, NYC Where else can we fit if you don't if you don't have a particular people who are leading us? Now there's a green area. The constitution says that for any elective post you must be over 18 or no Okay, youths have this notion of you must have money as a first aspect To be a leader like to be an MC. The second aspect is you must be both Since a youth I need to be paid That's a concept still going around that if you don't have money to pay me a lot of what you in As a youth is like if I don't have money I cannot contest so the question is The constitution allow anybody above age 18 to contest as long as maybe you have a degree another qualification according to different levels, but are we really to unite ourselves? To ensure that we be the leaders than be the supporters because you have been supporting people have disappointed us for a long time But we are still ready to support them and complain of unemployment Who are creating the jobs the leaders who are creating the policies the leaders? So What I change youths why don't you use your number? Why don't you change that notion because what we are fighting now is mental revolution There's something going on in the youth that we cannot be leaders So that only need a revolution of mind Not not striking the road for government for 3.4 like you said at that time 3.4 million jobs You go ask the government which promise that the second thing they do is for his words tear gas and whatever starts Why don't you be the leaders instead of complaining? All right guys, we are running out of time, but I want to give each and every one of you time Esther talk to us about the issue of Devolution and the young people. What are some of the loopholes we need to cover up and seal and move on? For me I can say Number one for us to cover it up. Number one. Let us not take leaders Into county governments the youth It should be something that can that that should be advertised for everyone to see so that these stories of becoming Seiko fans of politicians and taking them to those offices and these are the people who don't Who don't really know what is youth's interest and will be continuing to sing around saying that the youth are not being catered for Like this post which which will be occupied by the youth should be advertised for everyone to see whether you are illiterate or illiterate And from there we can now start saying that Our case the people who got these things Are catering to our interests next time. We'll have to ask you about the the young MPs What are exactly they are doing is we're talking about devolution. We need to ask ourselves. What are what is jaguar doing? But we know they are young people. What are they doing? Anyway, pijin, I'd like you to talk about Of course the young people and matters devolution. What exactly do you think county counties have to do in terms of absorbing the young people or all say the following first The counties need to have a data for example How many graduates do you have from your county in different areas? But we have counties that do yeah the issue is are you using the data? For example, if you have youths graduating maybe as teachers from a different county, even though we have the tsc How many loopholes? How many teachers do you do you need? How many engineers are graduating from your county? So that we tap this information Implement it and ensure that you use our people. That's a green area that we must check. Second thing Devolve counties or devolve system units as county government must ensure that they now take their budget back to the resources and And development so that they can engage youth there instead of youth coming up here Why don't you start even if they are said if you construct maybe five kilometers around youth and the people will be Why don't you start tapping these people in this direction? So that you get something out of them But if you are training your people like educated people from maybe Bomet County and they're coming to Nairobi How are those youths helping you? All right. Are we having an issue of implementing devolution for the young people? I'm saying that's Totally true. We have an issue there. Let's have even a rule if you are saying like two-third of gender should not be of the same Whatever of representation should not be of the same gender. Why don't even bring such bills in the county government? We ensure that maybe two-third of whatever employee people in the county government are not Maybe are youths or whatever stuff so that we can get them in a favorable environment. That's what I will ask All right. Let me come to you. So first as we wrap this up So first of the issue of ignorance bureaucracy has emerged from this discussion. How best can we address these two and moreover? Is the government really putting measures to try and absorb the young people in terms of decision making in the country? Okay, what I would say first is that In my opinion The youth national youth council and all those councils who have been formed to represent the youth Should first should first be dissolved. I think they are not doing anything for the youth So all of this should first should be dissolved and even the organizations These these people calling themselves the youth representatives. They should just they should go home We give it a try for let's say two years without these people and see even the the docket for minister of youth Should just be abolished and we see if if now we can if Then we see how we can reduce this level. Let's say corruption If you see things like nyis scandals and those let's see. Let's give two years And check if there is no if there is there will be no corruption Then we will see that the problem was with these youth representatives next semester We need to address the issue of devolving even corruption because it's an issue that is emerging everywhere as most people are commenting on that Yes, anyway guys. Thanks very much for making time to be together with us this morning We much appreciate that was ester. We have pijeno have silvester Of course talking about the understanding or rather making the youth understand all about devolution Well, my name is garandra alex. We get to do youth and politics again next week on monday Don't go anywhere. Well monstalk is coming up next after these. See you there