 Live from Austin, Texas, it's theCUBE, covering OpenStack Summit 2016, brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation and headline sponsors Red Hat and Cisco. And welcome back to theCUBE here. Day two of our coverage at the OpenStack Summit in Austin, Texas. The keynote's just wrapped up here. We're just outside the keynote auditorium right in the main convention hall along with Stu Miniman. And Brian Gracely, I'm John Wallsson. Thanks for joining us once again for our continuing coverage here on theCUBE. And gentlemen, as I said, keynote's just wrapped up. And I thought they had kind of a distinctive global feel today. We saw some demos from the Czech Republic. We talked about the newest members from China. We looked at a Taiwanese hackathon, examples of Sweden and UK. So this is not just the United States, United States-based concept, obviously. This is expanding on the global nature, Brian. Yeah, John, that's a great point. I mean, one of the things that OpenStack's done a good job since the beginning days is make sure, of course, this is the North American presence, but global. So every six months, they do first a North American show and then a non-show. So last year it was Tokyo. This year it's going to be in Barcelona. Heck, next year it's going to be in Sydney. So a lot of people excited about where the show goes. The show actually, by the way, they announced that next year the North American show's going to be back in Boston. So, you know, those of us in the Northeast there makes the trip a little easier and you get to show off Boston to this community, which is a great community. But, yeah, there's not only the location of it, but the vendors participating have more of a global field in some of the other communities that I've been involved in. And, you know, the diversity is a term that's been thrown around a lot. It is great, and speaking of diversity, they had the Women of OpenStack panel today. I know we're going to have a participant of that coming on later today. So, you know, OpenStack is no longer trying to be all things to all people, but do want all people from across the globe to be part of it. You know, a theme that I heard a lot of today too was about collaborate or die, adapt or die. That came from more than one of the keynote speakers today. Talking about that very important need to, that status quo isn't going to cut it anymore, Brian. That you really do have to be open, if you will, to new ways of doing things, new paradigms, new structures, whatever else, the crowd's going to leave you behind. Yeah, and I think really what that's saying is, a few years back, OpenStack had a very big vision. They were going to become sort of like the open cloud, the layer, sort of the Linux of the cloud, and to a certain extent, they may have gotten a little too big for their britches to sort of use a Texas term. They kept expanding. We're going to get into new projects. We're going to get into new areas, and the reality of that was, to a certain extent, OpenStack wasn't the best fit for that and some other things have come along. You heard terms like Kubernetes, projects like Kubernetes. You've seen a lot of these platforms that service things of all. I think what they're really trying to say is, look, OpenStack does certain things very, very well, but it's going to fit into a broader ecosystem, and what that means for this community is, you not only need to continue to work very hard to make OpenStack great, but you need to work with the Kubernetes community. You need to work with the Apache Foundation. You need to work with a lot of other areas that are building pieces and parts that are necessary, and you need to sort of realize, okay, this is what OpenStack does well. This is what other pieces do well, and let's make sure we don't kind of repeat the past and get over our ski tips and interfere with those things. Yeah, we heard about the, one of the speakers talking about the LAMP stack, and looking at Lenox and Apache down the PHP, and they said, okay, who can predict the, what's going to be the LAMP stack if we will of OpenStack? And no one raises their hand, of course. There's no way to predict that. And so Stu, I think kind of that flexibility, that uncertainty is really what kind of drives this community in terms of exploration of ideas and concepts. Yeah, we spent a bunch of years trying to figure out, as Brian said, you know, where does OpenStack fit? And the thing I'm really starting to get is the theme this week is, you know, we all know that it's a multi-cloud world. I talk to every customer, you know, even you go to AWS to show re-invent, they're like, oh, they're all in. It's like, you're running a bunch of SaaS applications, of course, you've got Salesforce, and you name it, we're there. What about Microsoft? Oh, yeah, we're probably doing Office 365 and starting to play with some of, you know, what's going on with Azure. You know, what about Google? Oh, well, some of the analytics there, Google's doing great there. So where does OpenStack fit? And that's one of the things in the keynote this morning I know, Google was on with CoreOS and Alex Pulvy. We're going to have the Google representative on theCUBE today talking about that fit of, you know, OpenStack kind of containerization, that orchestration layer and multi-cloud and how those pieces go together. And of course, we've got one of the experts on this with Brian, who's been doing a lot of research into the cloud native platforms and, you know, how these applications fit into the environment. So fill in some of those blanks there, Brian. What you see in terms of, as Stu points out, it's a multi-cloud world out there right now. And how do containers fit into that and how do they facilitate the growth there? Yeah, I mean, containers play a very interesting role. It's, the thing to do is step back a little bit. So when OpenStack started five, six years ago, virtual machines were sort of the unit of currency of work. And so OpenStack was really built around this idea of, you know, how do we deliver virtual machines to be that thing that currency of work? Since then, containers have exploded. The last two or three years driven by Docker but a number of other projects and developers love containers. Developers love how easy they are to work with. And so OpenStack now has this, you know, sort of fork in the road to deal with. How do we deal with virtual machines? Where do containers come into play? And what's been very interesting is they've sort of had to take two paths. One is I have to be able to, within OpenStack, deliver a container just as well as I deliver a virtual machine. So it gives, you know, an operator and a developer, you know, different units of work. One is a little smaller, one's a little bigger. But also they've sort of flipped it on its head and they've started to say, you know, maybe if we work with a Kubernetes, a Mesos, these things that are designed to work at very large scale to make sure that an application never goes down, instead of thinking about OpenStack as a big framework for doing this, maybe we just think about OpenStack as an application and I can put that application in this other system that makes sure it never goes down and you sort of solve your high availability problem. You solve your, you know, resiliency problem. And so, you know, containers have an operational role in OpenStack and that's where we're seeing these partnerships with other projects but they also have a sort of a worker role and, you know, people are trying to figure that out and the challenge of it is, you know, containers are moving so fast. You know, Docker's going so fast but virtual machines still have a role in the world. They're very secure. People know how to operate them and, you know, it's the nature of what's going on with tech right now. Things are going so quickly. There's multiple options and people are just trying to sort out, okay, where does that fit? And from us, from a research perspective, you know, I'll just put it in perspective. We did a huge research piece last year looking at, you know, container platforms. We called them structured and unstructured platforms. That was about eight or nine months ago and we thought we had a pretty good landscape of what the world looks like. We're going to do a revision of that here in May and June. That landscape is going to look 50% different than it did just nine or 10 months ago. So that space is moving very quickly. The companies in that space are trying to, you know, jockey for position but the technology's evolving as well. So, you know, it just makes things a little more challenging for OpenStack but like everybody said, it's another collaboration opportunity. It's an opportunity to go solve customer problems which is good. If I could build off that, you know, it's always interesting. We always get fascinated with, you know, this next new technology and we often get caught up too much on that tool. So, you know, VMware was, you know, the thing and built a huge ecosystem out of it. You know, Docker, Docker, Docker, you know, was the drum beat for a couple of years. But as time moves on, you know, it's the broader solution set. It's, you know, how the applications fit together. It's, you know, Brian, you wrote a great piece, you know, Docker, you know, kind of the container might be the least interesting thing about Docker and what's going on there. You know, virtualization, you know, today in many environments, it's just a feature. OpenStack is just treated like an application. It's something that just gets baked into the fabric. You know, I wrote an article last year and said, you know, for OpenStack to be successful, it's not that everybody comes around and says, oh, I'm running OpenStack in production. It's going to be like Linux where we talked with Chris Wright about this yesterday from Red Hat was when it's successful is when we don't even think about it and it's just baked into the fabric of everything we're doing. You know, just like, I mean, Linux is just ubiquitous and it's everywhere and OpenStack and all the various pieces and projects could end up being the same way. But that permutation throughout the ecosystem, you know, it takes time. We've gotten the maturity down. We've gotten the blocking and tackling down and we're starting to see some of the new consumption models and it's changing where some of the goal posts are where we thought we were going for kind of, you know, winning, you know, this round of the game. We've talked a lot about enterprise, obviously, deployments and different schedules and what have you, but the public sector, at least the examples that we saw today, I thought that was captivating in some respects. One of the demos we saw from John from the TCB Cloud of the Czech Republic talking about smart cities and the connected cities, basically the Internet of Things and using OpenStack as a key part of that architecture and they even have a demo set up here in the Austin Convention Center where we have 20 rooms monitored for CO2 and temperature and humidity. Just small examples of what data can be compiled, again, with the help of OpenStack and then used for a public health purpose. So we talked about the Internet of Things, Brian, and 50 billion connected devices by 2024. 400 million new servers. There's a whole new world out there that is just waiting to be tapped and OpenStack's a big part of that. Yeah, OpenStack absolutely plays a role in that. I think what we saw this week was, we saw Telco and NFV, we saw some Internet of Things, not as much about enterprise and I think what that's really saying is, forget about the technology, think about the economics. If you're in the Telco industry, you're trying to keep up with the explosion in mobile, you're trying to keep up with this insatiable demand for mobile data. If you're these cities and governments, you're trying to say, how do I use technology to leapfrog, to move my people forward or reduce operational cost of the city as a whole? Those things are much more driving and demanding than somebody saying, well, I'm an enterprise and I'd like to squeeze a little bit more out of my existing Oracle application. I think that's why we're hearing that. It's an innovative discussion, it's driving these people to be excited about new opportunities, as opposed to sort of saying, well, there will be opportunities to modernize the existing enterprise, but if you're going to come to this event, you're looking for excitement, you're looking for motivation. I think that's why they drive that and we don't hear as much about just the core, kind of block and tackle enterprise use case that we might at other vendor events. Another example of that, Stu, that we saw on the stage was the winning team from the Taiwanese hackathon that was just recently held. They came up with, again, an application running on OpenStack that, in essence, tested muscle memory. We saw a guitarist playing at a device wrapped to his forearm and then the muscular activity, electronically being transmitted through that device, that could be applied to occupational therapy, physical therapy, and a number of other healthcare solutions. And I think when you see those kinds of examples, that really is inspiring and that really does, I think, captivate people, motivate them, maybe to take it to another level. Yeah, absolutely. Wikibon, we have three main pillars of our research that we've been running with and it's cloud, big data and infrastructure and the analytics and big data, some of the things with the centers, we've been talking about for a number of years. The question is, right, how do we create new business value, internet of things or even the industrial internet has the big opportunity to create real value to people's everyday lives and really transform industries and do things that I couldn't do before. That's the thing we're always kind of looking for and OpenStack, many of the pieces from the core are what we've done before. I mean, it's infrastructure as a service, we've been talking about it for 10 years, there's lots of options out there and there's reasons why people would choose OpenStack. I've got certain environments that the application might make sense to be a little bit more ephemeral, shorter lived or very fluctuating, but it comes on on-premises, I have either from a governance standpoint or I really just need to hold that closer to my ownership of it. So the themes we've been talking about here but absolutely some new applications are going to drive really some new deliverables. We've been talking to customers that have global, mobile solutions and they've got to have some cloud-based infrastructure underneath it because where it lives and how it's closer to the user is very different from the way we built applications just a few years back. There's a lot of discussion about AWS obviously and the success that Amazon's having, 10 billion dollar business and then comparatively to the OpenStack community and the revenue that's being generated there, perhaps fractional in some respects. But one of the speakers talking this morning about it's not one or the other and in some ways their opinion was they're not exactly doing all of the same things and so comparisons might not be so relevant but can you expand on that a little bit for me Brian and maybe talk about maybe that comparative and why it isn't just strictly black and white. It might be little apples and oranges. Well, it's a couple of things. The open source business model has always been sort of complicated to explain to people who come from a very commercial, everything that I buy gets monetized model. Open source models tend to have a very large amount where work is getting done for essentially free. I didn't have to make a purchase to go do those things. So I think what we're seeing is you can look at it from a monetization perspective. Is it worthwhile for all these people to be here, or all these companies to be here? Maybe, maybe not. In some cases they've got ways to monetize the business directly because of open source and other cases or open stack, in other cases it's indirect. But at the same time, these types of activities, these community activities are important because you take that hackathon, right? You take that thing, what it identifies is two things. One, between public cloud and open source, the amount of friction between you having a great idea and executing a great idea has gotten so small that that person that has an idea of how to improve physical therapy, not only can they get software to get started, they don't have to buy a big proprietary machine that they probably never could afford, but they can collaborate with people. They've got that collaboration piece. And so we try very hard from an analyst perspective to figure out what's a dollar of a public cloud worth versus a dollar of open source. I don't think there's an easy formula for that, but I think if you look at it holistically, those two things are reducing that friction between, I have a business idea, I have a humanities idea, I have a great government idea, and going and execute that. And when that friction goes away, now you open up sort of new business opportunities. And I think that's the thing to focus on a little more than just does this bit of software, make this much money versus this service, make this much money. You're going to have a hard time comparing apples and apples. Yeah, so Brian, I know one of the things you've been kind of digging at this week, and I'm curious if you've had any findings yet, is when somebody's making that kind of purchasing decision and how they make that architecture, who's in the room? Is this a different buyer? Is this the storage guy just says, oh, well, hey, I was evaluating, Seth, Cinder, Swift, and everything in there. So what have you found so far and anything you can kind of project from that standpoint? Yeah, there's a couple of basic fundamentals that tend to happen. If you're going to be in the sort of open source or open core, that's going to be your business model. First and foremost, you're going to have to build people that love your product and essentially are becoming your marketing and sales force early on. People that are talking about it, people that are experimenting with it. But like Mark Shuttleworth said this morning, we're moving from a phase of kind of experimental software to big software. It made us have to think for a second. What does that mean, big software? But he said, we're trying to solve big complicated problems and if we're constantly trying to find the software plus the operators, that's going to sort of break down. It's too much friction. So we're seeing lines of business be involved because they're saying, hey, maybe open source is a way for us to go faster. We're seeing the developers have to be involved in the same room with the operators because the developers are saying, I love this new model. It lets me be creative and have new ideas and the operators are going, wow, this may even be harder than it was before. And so all those people have to be in the room to sort out what does that mean? Can it make my business go faster? Does it mean I have to go hire smarter people than I did? So it's a broader, richer conversation and I think what we're seeing is, in every one of these communities, whether it's OpenStack or Kubernetes or Docker or whatever it is, we're seeing more commercial offerings that are saying, look, let me give you the benefit of that, but let me help you reduce that friction. And companies are trying to figure that out. It's, again, this has all happened in the last two, three, four years. IT careers go 20, 25 years. You've got to compress a lot of learning very quickly these days and that's, it's an opportunity and it's a challenge for people. Yeah, we were listening to Ahmad Susu from Intel and he was talking about really building new mindsets, new approaches. I mean, some of the point you were just talking about, Brian, is that they said, let's just take five, six engineers, let's lock them up together for a few months here, maybe a few weeks and let's just take OpenStack as it is today. Let's forget whatever historical knowledge we have and just look at where we are today and let's see what we could develop as a migration path going forward. Based on all that we know. Forget what we've learned, basically, but what we know and so listen to have this new world of containers and virtual machines and the meld of that, Stu, really does, I take to Brian's point, create interesting learning curve for engineers but also maybe a new fresh approach to looking at this. Yeah, this kind of brings to mind the discussion of, what, where does automation fit into all of this? This is a great line from Mark Shuttleworth from Ubuntu said, you know, if you build an OpenStack cloud and you have 200 people managing that, it may be a useful cloud and you might be able to put good things on, but, you know, kind of you're doing it wrong and we're doing it wrong, we have it built it right, it needs to become kind of push button. So, you know, there's been a discussion of automation in IT for, you know, decades now but some of these tools in the orchestration, the way I build things, things are changing so fast that I can't have a person, you know, in there. You know, for IoT to, you know, to work, you know, we can't have, you know, IT staff sitting out at the edge. It's, you know, we need to architect things, we need to build things. This is really one of the great learnings that we have from really those hyperscale players. Something, you know, we tried to take a good look at because, you know, Google could not be built if they had to have, you know, one engineer sitting for every, even if it was every thousand servers, forget it, no way. It's, you know, they don't have somebody that really does servers. They bring them in a rack at a time or build a room at a time and, you know, the kind of the pet versus cattle discussion that we've had in OpenSack for many years. So, there is a major shift in how people need to think of workforce. The MIT Sloan School talks about the second machine age coming. So, there's new skills that you need to learn, you need to understand. How are you going to work with these tools? It's not about robots taking over the jobs, but it's kind of the racing with the machine that is part of this discussion. And one of the things I'm excited about this week is I'm seeing people that were those virtualization admins, people that drove some of those waves that are coming in, playing with it, trying to understand, not just people building OpenSack, but as they've got all over the place that, you know, we are OpenSack, it's the community and how they're learning, growing, training, you know, certifications and that maturity model's starting to get there. Well, you talked about what we're learning this week. Certainly look forward to a great day of guests. Quite a full lineup we have ahead of us. And by the way, I think it's okay to talk about cattle in Texas. I think when you get away with that. But it's going to be really an exciting day here. On day two of the OpenSack Summit, brought to you here on theCUBE. Look forward to you joining us here throughout the day here on siliconangle.tv.