 I guess everyone how you doing hey So Yeah, so look you are gonna chat a little bit about VR Just to get this started how many people here have have tried the Oculus Rift or the HTC Vive? Just a chance to try some VR. Okay, so some of you not a lot of you yet. Okay, yep So today we're gonna talk a bit about kind of our experiences in VR what we've seen and what we think is gonna happen in the future So maybe you get started, you know, Loki you've been in this industry a while. Yeah, why did you decide to get into VR? What's your that's actually a really good question? So back in 2012 This is actually before Oculus was even announced Yuka and I that's the co-founder and myself we were looking at interaction in gaming and storytelling and Anyway, she had these ideas of like Identifying more communicating more deeply with Virtual characters, I guess and initially she wanted to do that in a handheld environment But I said like the technical challenges at the time are very high for this there Like probably too high We need to wait a couple of years for that or we can try it in VR because the technology around VR is a lot More well behaved like we can do eye tracking much much easier in VR than we can on a handheld device because the sensors are close to your eyes and So we thought well, why not let's make this prototype where you talk with It's not really talk with the character You basically would make eye contact with this character in a virtual reality setting and a lot of people really liked it But they didn't so much like just the character. They're like hey, this thing is really cool You should make it and so When the crescendo became loud enough we kick-started it we where the I Think second most successful VR headset on Kickstarter. I think how much is your race a Kickstarter over 500 Oh, sorry 480 K. I think so it wasn't like wasn't earth-shattering, but it wasn't bad. So and what was that? Wow 2014 yeah, so this is like at the start the octopus has come out. Yeah, maybe the D the Oculus DK2 was out So this is 2015. Yeah, the DK2 was out. That was the state of the art Our headset when we were in prototype stage. We had a WQHD screen So it was 70% more pixels than it. So everyone was like really blown away by the resolution By the way, we now actually have 40% more pixels than Oculus. So we're We're winning the resolution game because it was really important for eye tracking foveation. So Rendering well, yeah, I digress but there are a lot of advantages having eye tracking in VR and as we Moved away from making this interaction scenario and actually making the hardware We became aware of all of these needs for the technology that we're making. So it actually grew very organically We just started with an interesting idea and it expanded and tumbled out of control and as it tumbled out of control and then blew up and then we've now controlling that company that's like 50 times bigger than it was at the start as yeah, how big are you guys now? So Well, I said 50 times bigger. That's like maybe an exaggeration or I currently 30 people but our current Hiring plan is to 50 this year. So and so, you know fove is focused on One of the the main unsolved areas in VR Both the the Oculus and the HTC Vive they have they have hand-track controllers They have positional tracking within the space But you guys are specifically focused on eye tracking. Yeah, maybe you can talk a little bit about why eye tracking is so important To creating immersion and virtual reality So it's actually not important. Well, it depends on how you define immersion. So one of the things that I Get annoyed at is the definition of immersion and presence in virtual reality Like just being in a world doesn't make you present in the world in my opinion This is of course like it's a battle of semantics here But one of the most important things for me is the world being aware of you the people in the world Knowing what you're doing what you're thinking and what your intentions are. So a character in virtual reality to me Well, if you look around in the content in VR, it's very rare to have solid character interaction They're always just going to be talking at you looking at you and kind of awkwardly Not doing what they really would if they're a natural entity So often we'll encounter a very hard uncanny barrier. So like some some lessons That's a pretty rare thing where they put a lot of effort into character communication But even still your interactions they mostly happen with sort of menu prompts, and it's very very artificially prompted We would like to make that much more natural So having characters just in innately aware of where you're looking Enables them to do something like if I'm staring at that bottle of water a character can come in maybe pick it up And start talking about it because it might have been an artifact that was important to the story and when I was looking at it they prompt about it rather than just Forcing the issue like waving it in my face and saying hey, here's the thing So I feel that VR can be made as a storytelling medium much more interesting by adding eye tracking Giving your characters that are in the world with you a theory of mind Yeah, so one of the things that we've seen is that You know what some of the more compelling applications of VR and tend to be with other people Yep, so even it's not just about AI characters as well It's also about the fact that when you're in VR with say a co-worker Yes, or your family member or friend that you have an idea of this Like you have an idea of where they're looking if their attention is on you These are non-verbal cues that we often you know Subconsciously take notice of in real life Yeah, but they don't really yet exist in VR because we lack the technology to Actually track people's eyes up until now. That's right. Well, the technology was never lacking like eye tracking has been around for a very long time We just brought it into the VR world and we took our own spin on it So we did some optimizations our stuff works extremely fast and the pipelines optimized streamed VR But the technology that we're using is fundamentally the same as what was available ten years ago in different settings Like for example military they use it for aiming their helicopters Sometimes but yeah, there's like this technology has been around we've just applied it to an area that we think solely needs it and Yeah, and so so what's your strategy? How you guys try to get this in the hand of compute? How you guys trying to get this in the hands of consumers? So that's a very good question The strategy was make the thing question mark question mark question mark dollars dollars dollars Yeah, that's like all my pitches. That's basically what I hear Yeah, it's like hey, we'll make the thing and then question mark question mark question mark profit. Yeah dollar size, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's like and then we're building our company. Yeah. Yeah So the plan is we make this thing we get it out to people and see what people do with it And what's really interesting is we have a lot of researchers playing with our stuff We have also interestingly enough we've actually formed a cooperation with a large net cafe provider and We're gonna be working with video streaming stuff as well And for the aiding that and we've got a lot of technology that we're working on now So it's a lot of fun But the strategy was to get it into his hands as many people as possible and make people realize what eye-tracking can bring to VR While we then go and make another one like we're gonna be playing another hardware play in the future very near future actually and So we know what people liked we know what people didn't like we know what we have to pay very very special attention to in the future and Yeah, we're gonna be coming in and making some new cool things in VR but our strategy is essentially as a hardware company with R&D bent and Also a licensing model as well. So so let me ask you let me ask you the hard question, right? Sure So you're you're up against really big well-capitalized companies like HTC and Oculus slash Facebook. Yeah, right. So how are you? Well, we're in the same fish tank. Anyway. Yeah, so so how are you? So so how are you essentially competing with these guys when you're also building a building a headsets? Well Competing on a technical level is Not that difficult like if you were good if you were to make say paint the picture of us being a competitor to HTC Or Oculus it doesn't make business sense on a technical level we can achieve the same things they achieve hardware is hardware tech like it's just a matter of time and energy and Talent at that point. We have plenty of these things We can make a Really good gadget, but to compete directly with one of these big players wouldn't make sense what we want to do is extend the market ahead of what they're doing bring bring interesting things to the table before the other guys get around to it and maybe trailblaze a bit and you know we are up with the licensing our technologies as well and He touched on something very interesting just a moment ago, which was Avatar communication and things like this We have some projects in the pipeline where we have full face tracked not just the eyes eyes are super important But when we get the face in as well, it becomes pretty magical although. I'm pretty sure I wasn't allowed to say that but whatever That's your that's your that's your sound bite for this for this talk Yeah, so I mean you talked a little bit about extending the market and looking to what's next right yeah, so I mean Where do you see the future of? Kind of VR and AR and this field going what really gets you excited. What do you what do you see as being in maybe a year? so a year is very interesting Next couple years like a year is still very interesting It's a small small timeline where maybe a lot of people would think not a lot of innovation It's gonna happen in in just one year like we'll see like a tiny bit higher resolution and What maybe some better controllers? I don't think that's the case. I think in a year's time We're gonna start seeing whether the technology can be ubiquitous or not. We're gonna see if virtual reality And indeed augmented reality or augmented virtual reality, which is the new thing. I like Talking about but yeah We'll see if this can be applied to our everyday life and see if we can build a culture around this technology that Can kind of change the way humanity operates So I think next year is gonna be that year whether we we we decide whether VR is really Gonna shine or be a niche gaming market And you think that's gonna happen between 2017 2018. Yeah, so I think that year is basically the best chance that the industry has to Like throw down and show the world what VR is capable of being and that that's not just a toy And what why do you why do you think it's only that that year? What's happened so far that that makes you believe that it's it's really difficult Like to say I don't want to torpedo the industry or anything like that But I believe people's attention is fickle We have people's attention right now and we have a lot of a people's attention right now But we don't want to go the way of the connect like the connect was a massively awesome piece of technology It only got used for mini games and like Don't want it don't want that so for everyone's benefit the connect was the accessory that came with the the Xbox gaming console It basically was able to track people and hands within the space It was considered like part of Microsoft's core strategy And they've taken a lot of that technology and put it into the HoloLens and some of the things that they're doing with augmented Reality, but as a standalone device that kind of failed because it never really got developer support Yeah, basically because the developers didn't make cool stuff for it in time It kind of fizzled out and I feel like one of the things that the industry is it as a whole is doing is I mean there's a hell of a lot of effort going into content, but Is it the right content? That's a question. I'll throw to everyone like are we as the industry doing the right thing? By emphasizing gaming or should we be somewhere slightly different? so I Think there are just so many places where VR can shine it's going to become Very relevant to everyone's life in the future regardless of what happens next year I just think that next year's behavior will define how the industry grows over the next five So, you know from our perspective we've invested in about 26 companies In VR and AR and just kind of seed stage level So we have a pretty wide view of what's happening and we have some pretty strong opinions too on where we think the industry is So, you know from my perspective I agree like you know I'm our entire fund is focused around VR succeeding Yeah, that being said we're very realistic and actually fairly bearish on consumer VR Yeah, the reason why is just that one these devices are one really expensive to their really bulky Yeah, and three just like there's not really yet like killer applications for consumers. Oh, yeah I think they're around the corner like what do you what do you think like would be? One of the missing pieces to have consumer VR just click and become Everywhere so you know my thesis on this is that you know VR the problem The problem with VR right now is that it's kind of a very broad term. Yes, so to give you some perspective. There's You know PC VR, which is the the Oculus Rift and the hC Vive Yeah, there is console VR, which is the the PlayStation VR and may potentially other VR systems Yeah consoles then there's mobile VR, which is the the Samsung gear VR In the Google Daydream. Yeah, and then the Google Cardboard, which is kind of like a worse version of that And so yeah, you know my thesis is that unlike your mobile phone when like there was a reason to go and buy it and go and a Reason to upgrade your phone to get new capabilities to go from like a fixed function k-tires our phone to like a smart phone In VR, there's not really a reason yet to go out and buy it. No, so I think that most people Including potentially most people here in this audience are actually going to own their first VR device when their phone supports it by default So Google releases standard Called Google Daydream which is now part of the Android standard and more manufacturers just signing up and starting to release phones I have kind of this VR standard built-in. Yeah, and eventually, you know There's the theory is is that Apple is going to release something this year. We'll see that'll be really big for everyone So I think a big part of it is just people having their hands on the hardware Yeah, and a good chunk of that is going to come from just upgrading your phone one day and being like oh wow It supports VR. Let me give it a shot. Yeah, and at that point, you know We got to hope that there's compelling enough applications there that people are going to want to use it Absolutely, and that's that's what brings me back to another thing like I'm really keen on is this like what are the strong Like where does your VR lend itself? Like what are the most powerful use cases for it? How does VR differ from Augmented reality as well as another thing that I'm dealing with a lot in in my stuff Like I shouldn't be focused so much on this But I think that augmented reality and virtual reality are seeing the same thing from different perspectives and VR is going to basically give way Not to augmented reality, but mixed reality is going to be approached from two sides And we're going to meet in the middle and have a very powerful connection without devices in the future that Basically grounds like what we do in physical space and virtual space. Yeah, so for the benefit of the audience, you know Yes, reality is This this world in which the majority of what you're seeing is the real world But there's virtual objects that you're able to naturally interact with. Yeah, this is what the HoloLens is going for This is what magic leap is going for but there's a lot of Hardware and technical problems that first need to be solved before it's available to the general public Yeah, yeah solved or sidestepped, but definitely Said like a true technologist. Yeah Yeah, there are many things we can do to make things cool, sir Yeah, and so, you know one of the things that we're seeing is that you know A lot of these problems you're saying sidestepped and I think that's an interesting thing to have touch on for a second So, you know one of the things that we're seeing is that everyone really focuses on What is virtual reality going to get adopted by the consumer market? What we've started doing is we've actually stopped investing as much in consumer-based companies and started to focus more on business applications Industrial applications of these technologies. Yeah, and there's a few reasons why the first is that If you actually solve a business's problem, they're gonna They're gonna be willing to pay whatever the cost of the hardware is so, you know, we have a company that's building Simulation software that simulates medical devices great and they're selling to very large medical device companies As a sales tool to go and sell these like giant MRI machines to doctors So instead of you know having to fly a doctor out to your demo center or have to ship the machine out to do demos You just bring a virtual reality kit They're able to see what the machine is like in virtual reality and then get a make a buying decision off of that Yeah, and so sorry go ahead So do you think like VR showrooms and like VR marketing where someone literally walks in they drop down their tracker If they need one if it's the inside out that is inside out But do you reckon that like room scale VR is gonna be used in just general sales in the future in other industries as well 100% right especially especially in areas where real estate is at a premium or you're not able to Demo or show off all the options. So for example, we're seeing this in Lowe's Lowe's is a massive Home retailer in the US and what they have is they have essentially a hologram kitchen We're able to go in there and essentially customize your kitchen with with the cabinets you want with the countertops You want yeah walk around it and essentially get a real sense of space Yeah, and so for something like that look Lowe's will spend a thousand dollars on a PC They'll spend our thousand dollars on a virtual reality system Yeah, it doesn't matter if it's bulky because they'll figure out a way to have some man it and it could easily Turn into multiple tens of thousands of dollars of sales for them. Yeah, so it easily pays for itself Absolutely like I have fantasies of like buying a car in a couple of years time heck why not three months time where you just jump into your VR system and your car is there in front of you and I I Hit the seats play with my swatches I paint the car place the components that I want on it and just build this thing and then it gets shipped to my door You know like why not we can do this we can make VR a part of Everyday experiences and I think it's going to be good for giving people a connection to their devices as well Like it's not just something you ordered because like I feel that customization is super important and customization in VR Is basically where it's at when it comes to sales like like presenting just a thing that's great But if it's a thing that you can customize you can make someone have that hands-on customization experience and make them feel More attached to the thing they just made and I think that's kind of cool as well So this is a really big macro chair that's happening right now in e-commerce There's a lot of companies out there a direct consumer They're all about providing a consumer with choice and the thing that that's basically their version So yeah, there's a wide common error company that launched recently Yeah, that's essentially custom tailors a shirt to you Yeah And so the idea of being able to one take that shirt and then see what it looks like on a virtual avatar Yeah, I need to spin it around. Yeah, you can like you can impose yourself and like so If there's a lot of really crazy technology that's starting to just it's just on the cusp of coming out Yeah And you know one of the other areas that you know We I want to I want to touch on is is on the e-commerce side, but also on the on the education side Yes, and so you know a space that we're investing in pretty heavily right now is in Incorporate training so we invest in a company that is is you know using corporate training for good They've they've essentially they're using VR to put you in the shoes of someone that is Negotiating their salary so in the US There's a there's a big kind of macro discussion right now about the fact that there's a there's a gender gap for wages Yeah, and so what they're doing is they're essentially giving Women these this this this module is VR tool that puts them in simulated Negotiations with a hiring manager so they can learn to negotiate for higher salaries and learn to ask for what they're worth Yeah And the idea behind that is to essentially close the gender the gender gap and wages and that's a that's a brilliant application And one of the things that I think eye tracking is going to shine in as well Like I shouldn't be plugging fove so much. I should but yeah, whatever Our eye tracking can help that kind of thing by focusing people like if I'm looking down like this and not making much eye contact We can catch you out or if I'm sort of looking like this But I'm sort of staring away because I really like even though I'm tricking the system It like I'm gaze locked to your head, but I'm really not looking at it That's probably a sign that you're not confident and you need to increase your confidence And so we actually one of our side projects when we first started fove was working with autistic people on training how to make eye contact We we didn't end up deploying that system We end up going into the hardware and letting other people make that but that was one of our very initial applications was I contact training and quantization and what was it? What was the result of that? That sounds really that sounds fascinating well, I'm just gonna be like fully fully transparent with everyone like I'm actually on the spectrum myself I have like a light version of autism and I taught myself how to make eye contact with this system and Become completely aware of my gaze not just how it was perceived by me But other people like we I had a spotlight attached to my eyes So wherever I looked there'd be a spotlight beam and I would realize that if I'm staring at the table other people would be following my gaze and looking at the thing that I'm looking at and that's like becoming aware that this is a physical thing that other people actually use to Interact with you Was a fundamental game changer for me like it never occurred to me So I guess what's pretty amazed eyes the first time I've heard this Yeah, and I didn't realize it before this session and like I've noticed that you've been making a lot of eye contact So clearly, you know, that's a really really great example of the power VR. So on that time That's a great place to end. So thanks so much for the time. Thanks everyone. Enjoy the rest of your at the conference We hope to see you out there later at the after party