 Hey everyone, so you're here today to learn about this new era of WordPress themes block themes so when WordPress 5.0 landed and Gutenberg was introduced into the editor the classic editor became something new it became blocked also folks dove in started building all sorts of interesting experiences within the editor and Blocks are seen as the foundation of this editing experience. I Actually don't quite subscribe to that. I know blocks are cool and interesting I built a handful myself and I know many of you in the room have but blocks are only micro experiences within the greater Editing experience of WordPress and you know what drives that? themes do in particular block themes in this new era So what we're going to cover today is how block themes are different from classic themes The architecture behind a block theme We're going to take a look at some code today and just understand the underpinnings Underpinnings of what exactly these block themes are and how they work and then the the way that they facilitate a full-site editing experience within WordPress core Armourge Tabor my Twitter and my Website are up there. I write a lot about design and WordPress and the intersection of this whole new era previously I was Building a lot of different products. I built co-blocks theme beans iceberg Block gallery and I was also a go daddy for a number of years running the product team for the WordPress experience and Now I'm at extent if I has had a product leading that team building on much of this new stuff here Like many of you my career is staked and built on WordPress and in particular all this new stuff here So themes have evolved quite a bit over the years We've had the most basic of blog themes to the most advanced themes where we even have page builders built into these themes To help leverage the editing experience of WordPress There's one common thread though through all these themes and that's that they have different experiences That's not a bad thing if we can take a theme and form it into an experience that serves a client side or your own site but having a system that Creates a lot of friction is not good for WordPress If you have to redo your site every time you change a theme or if you opt for a page builder or opt off of a page Builder is just too much friction that in overall is just hurting the WordPress experience And that's where block themes come into play Because block themes are catalysts for a theme agnostic WordPress experience That's taking one system that standardized Flexing it in a bunch of different fashions to build new WordPress experiences that are consistent from theme to theme And that starts with the theme not JSON file The theme not JSON file is a specific That lets you assign styles and settings of a site The styles is everything of how it looks the settings is the the way that the editor experience is customized Let's start with styles here There are three different origins of styles. There's core styles Theme styles and user styles these form what I like to call the hierarchy of styles If you like pie or cake, you'll like this illustration here So these three styles layer on top of each other to form the site styling The first is the crust or the core styles. This is everything that core Gutenberg provides out of the box So how your buttons are displayed the typography the font sizes the font spacing Everything that you see out of the box without a theme layer in the editor Then we have the filling or the theme styles This is everything that the theme adds to flavor the pie or the cake here That's taking that default Gutenberg that's black and white and making it red and white or blue styling The rounded corners of the button changing anything Silistically that it wants to based off of what's provided in core Then we have the user styles, that's the topping That's where you go into the editor within the global styles interface and the user chooses some different changes on top of that So if core decided the buttons were black right out of the box Then the theme said the buttons are red you can go into the styles interface and make the buttons blue And that's a site-wide global change that is applied everywhere If we dive a little bit deeper into the styles of a theme that Jason file you Kind of inception into this. There's global styles and also block styles Global styles is generating the CSS for HTML elements. That is the body tag headers Captions buttons even and some of this stuff is still relatively new and will come out and work for us 6.1 But the gist is I can take one JSON specification and style Consistently across a different number of themes with one fashion This is what it looks like. I've got a styles object within my theme not Jason file And I'm setting color notation and also some typography settings here and if you could see I've got CSS variables or custom properties Within each of these and I'm using the presets that are established by the theme throughout the JSON You would use this method here because you have one source of truth for the design of your theme So if I change that base color or contrast color it is reflected throughout anywhere that you've used those colors in the styles So if we take that it the or we'll take that and merge it and output CSS to the front end and it will target the body class or the body tag and This also exists within the editor Targeting the content of the editor itself So if you're a themeer and you've built themes before and tried to have editor styles that match the front end of your site within Gutenberg You don't have to do that anymore It happens with this one system and it's converted as it needs to be instead of requiring two style sheets And as you could see a little bit later We're actually removing the need for any style sheets within a theme the block theme other than declaring the name of the theme and the slug Elements work quite the same way. So within the styles object I have elements and I just declare each one individually So I have a button element So I'm using the color the same way I did previously but now I'm adding another one here to take a look at I'm assigning a border radius of zero for the button style and then I'm styling the h1 tag as With a large font size again using the CSS properties generated by the theme And this is the output of that the h1 is simply just throw in an h1 on the on the Styles here and adding the font size buttons a little bit different because We don't want to target every button on the page But we do want to target buttons generated by Gutenberg editor that have opted into the system So there's a couple classes that are generated for you. So again, we're not writing any of the CSS From these styles here. It's all configured by core. All we're doing is providing the values in JSON So that's it for global styles the global styles within theme.json Generating block specific styles is pretty much the same way and this is CSS that is scoped to specific blocks Here's an example Where I have the styles object again and inside of it I've got blocks and then inside of that I'm using the name space and the slug of a blocks So this one I'm targeting the core site title block and I'm setting some stylistic attributes to this as well And just like previously it's generated on the front end and within the editor targeting the specific block Now this CSS is applied in line on the page if your theme opts to do so and that's probably the most forward-thinking way to do The block styles here But the interesting thing about targeting specific blocks is instead of a theme being just different colors and different Typography different layout widths and whatnot. You can actually target specific blocks and make them more personal more original to a theme So if your site title was all caps or italic or bigger or smaller You can do that sort of granular control design wise So that's it for styles within theme.json. Now, there's this whole other side of things for settings Settings of a theme.json file defined stylistic presets So like the colors and the font sizes that you use throughout the site, but also the editor experience The editor experience is really interesting because you can take Any controls or not any controls It's it's a number of controls today But the goal is most controls can be either turned on or turned off opted in or opted out by the theme To either tighten down the editor experience So say you're handing off a site to a client and you want to tighten things up You can do that now within theme.json and it's also in one standardized fashion And you can also take some of the like the styles for example imply as you can apply specific styles to block You can also do specific settings So for the paragraph block for example, if you don't want the drop cap option available within your client's editor experience You set drop cap equals false and it'll hide that control within the editor Now there's a lot more Flexibility that needs to happen on this front to continue moving towards the configuration layer of settings But I do see a future where we have one system that can be as simple and a streamlined Editor wise but also as flexible as we want building out the site wise all in one system And it's also a system that's not locked down so we could take the editor Perhaps it starts out really strict really tightened up for your client But as they grow with the site, maybe you unlock some of that feature set for them to continue editing with Here's an example of settings a couple settings here within theme.json I have a color palette that I'm using here And if you could see I've got two options online six and seven where I'm turning off the default color palette and also the default gradients It's another one of those editor configuration layers So I'm turning off the you know the red yellow green purple blue colors that you see right out of the box So only your theme colors are available and the same for gradients You can turn off gradients that are may not be appropriate for you or your client's website There's a couple different settings showing up in WordPress 6.1 to be released later this year The first is which is fluid typography It's very interesting you set a min and a max value for your typography And then it the editor will calculate how that displays and with the viewport is wide enough It'll display at the max and if it starts shrinking down it'll slowly gradually move down towards a smaller size and Then we have root padding which sets the amount of space around the viewport and the content of your entire site This is very interesting because if you're familiar with themes and especially with moving towards editor styling and whatnot You've had to figure out how if wide and full width blocks are associated with padding of a site And if you want to have controls for that themes have notoriously had to add quite a bit of CSS to override and fix that If you look at 2022 there's you know There's a whole glob that tries to solve this now core has done it in a standardized fashion That will be released in 6.1 Or we don't have to have any of that CSS and if you set something to full width it'll be full width And if you set it to wide it'll have appropriate padding on either sides. It seems like such a Simple solution, but it was very complex behind the scenes to figure out a system that works across all themes Then we have spacing preset. It's a very interesting one as well so being able to define a scale or a ratio of space and Have a consistent way to apply that either in margin or padding or even heights of certain blocks is a very powerful And this is coming in 6.1 And it's fairly easy to implement you can do it with just a few lines and within theme not Jason Or you can add your own spacing scale if you want to do your own custom sizes for that So that's it for settings But I would kind of group these other parts the templates the parts and the patterns in a template layer within settings now templates are Block based groups of blocks that are styled and arranged within the full-site editing experience so think of editing you know prior to full-site editing is Basically manipulating your post content of a page and then it's rendered within your templates of a classic theme What a template here does in a block theme is actually depicts where that post content is going to go So you can choose to have different headers or footers or other blocks on the page Within this experience here, and it's consumable within full-site editing So you can manipulate it around and actually change the way this template looks In this example here, I've got the header template part at the top I'm using the query loop block and that just renders the loop as a block and then wave it down below You can't really see it, but there's a footer template part as well. This works for all of the Classically you know tighten down parts of a block theme or as of a classic theme like the index that php files all the archive views searches And whatnot So the most interesting part about templates is the last point here And that's that they can be overwritten by the user So a theme will provide a block template out of the box declaring what the blog role or the index view would look like If you go into the site editor make changes like moving your featured image of the post title Or adding an author to that view and you hit save that template is opted out of the themes ownership So when the theme updates, it's not going to reflect on your site Your theme your template is now yours at that point Which kind of almost starts negating the need for child themes because we're having the system of it's kind of like a system of Hierarchy styles where it's now yours so it's not going to be overwritten and You can see if you can look closely here. There's a bunch of different templates I'm using the same template hierarchy within block themes as exists within classic themes This is from the 2022 theme and if we take a look at this page.html file I've also had featured image block post title block acer post content and both my template parts here as well and The cool thing here and you might have seen this before but it's like understanding that all of these Functionalities are abstracted from PHP now. They're sure it exists, but the block is referencing that instead So it becomes something you can move around and you can manipulate either here within the template But most likely within the full site editing experience That's it for templates. So now let's move on to parts so I showed you earlier with the the header part at the top and the footer part and these are parts of templates they're registered within the theme.json file and They're essentially synced across the site so think of it almost like a reusable block with an extra bit of interface around it and Just like templates you can edit a header change the navigation Move the site logo somewhere else and it becomes your header. It doesn't get overwritten by the theme part anymore This is how that works within theme.json. You have template parts array here I have a header and footer The key part here is the name which has to match the file name within the parts directory of a block theme and then the area Which defines that the class of parts is so I have header and footer here and Within the header.html file looks just like a block template It's just a piece of UI that is synced again across all templates and reused I'm using site logo site title social links, and I also have search on here And that renders within the editor the site as the actual header template part. This is from my blog richdave.com A cool thing about header parts and footer parts in particular is that you can replace them with other of the like kind So if you set an area of header and you have alternate header Variants within the theme I can pick either of these for example within my theme and it replaces the entire part across Anywhere that part is used on in my case on all the templates to this new header here, so it's a Maybe two clicks to get to this UI to have a completely different header for your site It's really powerful and coming up with you know this think of component systems There's only so many ways to do a header maybe 50 ways if we really flexed it out But if you had all of those capabilities built into one system then you could use this right here to just replace it in a few clicks so parts and patterns are similar but patterns unlock a Different level of editing that is abstracted from a part. So patterns are essentially Predefined block layouts you think it'd be sections that could be small like two or three blocks even But generally I would like to think of a pattern as a whole section of a page And then we also have page patterns which are designing an entire page of content that can be dropped in Anywhere in the post content at one time you can copy and paste them throughout your site from page to page and also from the WordPress patterns directory and This last bit here is so the patterns directory gets a little confusing because there's a local patterns directory within your theme Just like parts and templates are but there's also the actual patterns directory from repress.org Now the interesting thing about the patterns directory from repress.org is that a theme can utilize that to pull down patterns Within itself without actually having to register the pattern or having any sort of markup in the actual theme And you do that with theme not Jason Patterns directory has I'm pretty sure a couple thousand patterns like the quality wise. It's probably not ideal right now I think we can get better at curation and creation of patterns But having a system where you can create one pattern Upload it here and then reference it on anything that you build or any client site that you're going to use you can have one source of truth like one set of markup that you have to maintain and Still use it across any of your sites, but also anyone else can grab that pattern and pull it down into their theme I think it's a very powerful and sustainable system that probably will become The future of how we interact with patterns and add patterns to As the themes continue to move more towards component-based systems So to do that you would add a patterns array within the theme not Jason file and grab the slugs of the patterns You want to add so these two would be WordPress org slash patterns and then the two slugs here and they would actually open up From the website, so I grabbed those two slugs put them in here and You'll see them populate within the editor just like as if they were actually included in the theme themselves and If you wanted to include them within the theme you can you can do that within the patterns directory locally So here I have a pattern the one key difference here is that this pattern is a PHP file we have this like auto registration methods, so you define a Basically a header here for the pattern set its title slug categories keywords And there's a few other things like viewport with this pretty interesting It lets you set how zoomed out that pattern is so if it's a big section maybe you zoom it out a little bit further But this defines how that pattern is rendered within the editor and it's essentially Essentially another version of a template on their condensed block based Component that we can drop in anywhere again patterns. I think are Going to be the if not already are moving towards the primary way of interacting with the editor blocks are great and some blocks that are very More experience-based like trying to build forms or trying to build like Ordering type capabilities or even check out stuff with new promises that stuff will stay blocks probably but the idea that patterns are Taking these these very complex layouts that might be very difficult to do still in the editor and Dropping it on a site in one or two clicks. It's like a the ultimate short cut And speaking of shortcuts style variations are probably the most interesting part of a block theme to me so if you take the design system of theme.json all the globals the block styles all of the Colorings the font sizes Packaged it up and just start spinning it around and it starts shooting different variants of that kind of like the multiverse I guess like you would have style variations Style variations are alternate presets for a theme think of them as one-click design solutions You go into the global styles interface You you click on the little global styles icon and hit other styles You'll see a couple of different cards if your theme supports these once you click one It instantly reflects on your site within the editor with the new style applied if you hit save it's on the front end as well And it creates a system where it's easy to express different Creativity options just by having a one-click solution The best part though about style variations is that they inherit from the theme.json file That means I have one theme.json file I've set up everything I've wanted to set up experience wise and also Sylistically and then if I want a style variation just to change the colors all I have to do is override the colors So if you think back to the the pie with the core theme and user styles It kind of plugs between core and user as the different variants at that level So you can do something simple just changing colors just changing typography or colors typography layouts Spacing values you can register different template parts if you really wanted to you can kind of extend is as Much as you want. So one style variation can be as many different versions of it's of that one origin theme or not I Have a theme here. It's a little small But this is a theme I created called Wabi and the intent here was to keep a similar vibe to the origin theme style There's a couple variations some of the typography changes some of the spacing changes But I just wanted the same theme with different takes on it. So that's one approach to do it But then we also have themes like 2023 which is a work in progress right now to be released with WordPress 6.1 and this theme is interesting in that it's right now Formed of 10 different style variations. These were submitted by the community There was an ask for just figma or json entries to come up with ideas on how to Express more creativity within default core WordPress. So the later on this year We're going to see 10 styles out of the box with 2023 which is a very interesting change of pace from the classic way that themes are handled 2022 actually already has style variations included in it. So you can see this live today So if you I think in WordPress 6.0 earlier this year these landed and there's four different ways to use core default WordPress already so one question I asked quite often is Is you know, how do themes play a role with all this new stuff? If we have style variations where it's one theme but morphed and to a bunch of different avenues like how How does like how do themes play a role with all of this is a theme? What is a theme anymore and how is it relevant? And I would say the themes are certainly relevant, but they're entirely different themes are component systems So a theme is what patterns are included into it what styles what style variations It is what editor controls even are enabled or disabled that entire experience is all packaged into one component That you deliver to a site or you install on your own and it becomes a kickoff point a starting point It's intended to be flexed out the core styles and the theme styles are not meant to be the only things there You're supposed to extend it with user styles and go into global styles And create the experience and also the style that you're looking for within WordPress core So while themes are different There are some of all these parts that form an experience and that's the full site editing experience Full site editing is Just that it's taking everything that I shared with you everything I shared is was all block based everything was a block And that's because full site editing enables everything to be edited which are all blocks It's taking blocks and putting them everywhere headers footers sidebars no more widget areas even just having collections of blocks throughout the experience and Realistically these are only the full site editing experience is kind of only relative to a block theme now I know there's some thoughts around bringing Support for classic themes and trying to figure out how to add block templates and what not to the classic themes But but leaning forward there almost is a line in the sand on opting into this experience You know WordPress a year ago without the block theme being a default or the default theme being a block theme Was a completely different experience than what we have today like 2022 Opens the door for the full site editing experience that just wasn't there previously Right out of the box. So this leads us forward into Editing with blocks you get to it from the appearance tab you click on editor and It pulls up your site within the site editor. This is my block here again as example You can navigate to the templates tab You can click on any of these here and it's a little bit blurry But the idea is you can click on single post for example Change the featured image above the post title if you want or set a cover block with the featured image as the background You could customize that template itself and again when you do that that template is opted out of the theme's ownership And it's not get overwritten anymore by the theme if there if there are updates You can go to the global styles interface So I've got color palettes on the right and also elements So again earlier I showed you how elements were styling the body tag Like this is the UI component of the theme not Jason that does that So you would go into here if I changed the background to black instead of white now My user style is taking precedence over what the theme has decided here And we also have the navigation component It's a little small there, but the navigation is still relative to you and we're still experimenting with figuring out how to best open up the idea of Managing your navigation from the site editor. I know the block is is you know, it's tough. It's tough to build that system So we're trying out this sidebar approach with the navigation within this full site editing experience now one thing that I know is a bit touchy is the idea that The customizer is is almost not there and that's because the site editor is remit is meant to Replace the customizer experience It's not meant to remove it though If you're using a plugin that requires the customizer I think WooCommerce still has quite a few options even for the customizer the customizer will still be there It's a very valid part of WordPress and I've built plenty of experiences off the customizer that a lot of folks still use today But the full site editing experience in the site editor in general is meant to Surpass what the customizer can do today There's still a lot of need for Flexibility in the site editor and trying to open up more capabilities for plugins to intercede into that experience But the overall goal is to replace the customizer experience here So I added a little extra here at the end So all of these experiences all these block stylings and settings and configurations for With a WordPress experience kind of open up this whole new avenue of theming with the site editor And this is done with a relatively new plugin called create block theme now create block theme lets you go into the site editor Make as many changes as you want any of the stuff that I shared with the template editing or the style changes And whatnot and then go into this this currently a very new or very a beta type experience and export it as a brand new theme or as a Child theme or as a clone of the theme so here. I'm going to activate this plugin here create block theme that you can download today Go to the site editor here Start making changes So I took my same blog I replaced the header with a different header I did a style variation and applied it here. So it's the dark style variation. I have the color palette on the right That's where I can go in and change and manipulate some of these colors. I Have typography settings here where I could change the font size font families and manipulate all the type and Then also within the layout settings I can set again the global padding values and set the wide width the full width values of this theme then go back to Create block themes admin, which is a temporary admin I think eventually this will be within the full site editor experience and then any of these options I can export it as a new theme create a child theme clone it I can even just create a style variation if I'd like and this actually packages up this your theme as a brand new Theme, I think one day would be interesting if from not necessarily this admin view But from an experience within WordPress we can take your theme and actually send it to the WordPress themes directory from there as it Like send all my style configurations all my templates and parts and patterns and make it available for anyone to use I see that as it probably something we might lean into so that's everything I know about block themes and theming fit That's a I know as a big dump. I have a Right about on rich chamber.com. I tweet a lot. I have my slides I just I think I went on Twitter a few minutes ago So just feel free to chime in wherever you can find me and I've got a few minutes for questions if we have any Thank you And by the way If you haven't picked up your shirt for the event make sure to grab it in the sponsor area against the right hand ball Also, Matt's presentation is tonight Hi This is probably a question that's been debated very heatedly online, but I don't know because I haven't seen it So I'm not saying this is like a gotcha or asking as a gotcha, but One of the great things about WordPress is that you can do anything with it, right? So I feel like full site editing has its Place for certain use cases But there are other use cases where it's more like you have a product inside of a company that has a very strong brand Everything's you know designed very specifically and you don't want to give that is This is the full site editing and block themes intended somewhere down the line to completely replace the classic theming in The future or are they going to exist side-by-side the way they kind of do now? Yeah, I would say You know, it's just probably my my my thoughts are the classic themes will still run on You know the future of WordPress right now I don't see that it becoming Deprocated to the point where you can't run them just like the customizer. It's going to be there for a while There's a lot. I don't know what a wild means. Maybe maybe forever I don't know because it is something that a lot of people Rely on and you can't tighten WordPress down to one experience and block themes are meant to To add some sort of configuration layer so that you can start putting it into a certain lane If you'd like to like if you want to tighten it up for clients and whatnot There's still a lot of work that goes into that and it's not there today to do very very tailored Experiences around something like a high-level publisher would require, but I think it certainly would would aim to get there And we have an online question Christina has it for you in the back I've got a question from Michael Cunningham. Do we have to further use that plug-in to make changes to the theme? So you can make changes to the theme within the global styles and Within the templates within the site editor experience and you that plug in all it does is export it as a new theme So you would use it for now. I think eventually it'll be within the actual editor though It's just a more of an experiment now All right, we have another question in the back Yeah, thanks for doing this. I'm primarily trying to figure out the differentiation in Like input versus output and so kind of the concept I think like the conceptualization behind using a block theme is we're going to give this Interface of editing control within a set of defined parameters dictated by the theme.json file So that we can get some sort of predictable editing interface and give the users the options that they want to use How does that how is that playing ideally into the front-end especially when you're using something like bootstrap or the USWDS or you know some sort of Templating system that's intended to do that standardization on the front-end and how are you how is that kind of handled well? Yeah, that's a good question, you know There are a lot of experiments on using some of those systems within Probably within the block editing realm and less than the theme.json realm There are you know some ideas around trying to use Color values a little bit more in a standardized fashion that let you extend it But I do think we need more thought leadership on that front on how to leverage those external tools that are very valuable And a lot of folks already know how to use I like to think of theme.json as like the starting point for like how do we get a simple site there? But for all of us or most of us who do use some of these more advanced tools It's like we have tooling that works really well, like how do we leverage that and I think that I'll be open to discussing that further with you We have one more actually we have an I'll continue next Hi So I've started working with the 2022 Theme and made a child theme out of it with and implementing the templates and parts In the past I've always been able to do a PHP like queries for custom taxonomies and and things like that custom post types I Having a harder time Switching over to that and I believe is because it's actually not Something that's doable at this point. Is that true and and how long will that be able to be like custom queries alone? Being able to be used in the themes in the templates portion of it Yeah, that's a great question to the query loop lock has gone through a number of Evolutions in the last couple of years. I believe in WordPress 6.1 Though it does have quite a bit more flexibility and you you would probably create a template Which is also something you can do is 6.1 create a brand new template Within the site editor and add the query loop lock and try to manipulate its parameters because you can do custom post types now with that but I mean just a Little bit of warning that block is it is tough to use. It's big It's you're taking the entire WordPress loop and configuring it down to an interface So it needs a lot of work, but it also needs a lot of feedback So I would I mean I would love to like sit down with you and and take a look at what you're trying to do and see if I can help guide that direction and We had another question on this side. Yeah right behind you so for third-party plug-ins how extensible is that Is it something that can be utilized by other plug-ins in order to provide customization to those plugins from that theme starting point not yet you know, that's probably one of the debatable parts of Gutenberg that's been you know, it's been Recently gotten a little bit more attention on There was a lot of focus on bringing all the theme not JSON values into the global styles interface But now I think it's about time to start opening that up for block plug block plugins and other Experiences to like sort of thought-fill into that experience so that we do have one standard method of using it 100% We've got another online question for you. All right, I'm Christine Caught Connie from Burbank says thanks rich my question is whether custom templates and template parts are Overwritten by theme updates They're not. Oh, sorry. Okay. Yeah, she says it looks like they don't get overwritten. Yeah, right Right, if soon as you make a change to a template at least right now the way this works I'm sorry the way it works is that your your template belongs to you your site and with that theme active That template is also active on your site. You can clear the customizations and opt back into the themes ownership But you don't have to okay Getting my steps So if full site editing themes are kind of a combination of what options that Gutenberg or WordPress core Let us have do you think there's a danger that full site editing themes won't be able to innovate in the same way that kind of Classic themes did where you can only say if an option isn't exposed to me as a theme that Jason thing That's not possible for me to do. Do you think that's a danger? So I see the the themes the block themes and the theme not Jason spec as the starting point It's not I think the innovation on what you want to do with a theme comes in the box So if you're building a really interesting Integrate blocks like for hotel reservations or event management that would belong in a block Which is also a portable system that could be used across themes at that point And if you if you figured out you can also use theme not Jason to style those blocks So instead of having you know an out of out of the box Experience where your form fields look rough like you you have a consistent method to ensure that however the theme not Jason Files styles form fields and buttons your your stuff will adapt to other things I think it's a it's a powerful medium to kick off from I Just wanted to clarify Following up on the updates. So if updates don't overwrite. Does that mean that there's no longer a need for child themes? That's debatable I'm probably of the camp that there's a need. I think there's a need especially with client sites and some of the the ways that people are flexing and block things in that direction But generally speaking probably not Any other questions that I you talked a little bit about the drastic change The full site editor from one year to another What are you looking forward to or what can you share with us that you're most excited about in a coming update or release? Yeah, so you know all the 6.1 stuff is great But it's been it's been taking its rounds and getting some improvements and feedback on I think the most interesting aspect of the project is where we're going on the admin front so we've been focusing a lot on the Theming the block editor the site editor But how does that kind of come together one and how does it pull into an admin interface? That's much more modern much more simple in a sense and maybe we even can expose some of the the type of Configuration that we have within a thing like Jason on the entire WordPress experience Like maybe there's something there where we can tighten it down in one fashion or open it up in one fashion again Instead of having a bunch of different hacks to try to create experiences around I think leaning into that front is a Very interesting and compelling for me All right, last call for questions Maybe perhaps this is less a question more of a comment a Lot of people who fight against at least in conversations. I've had because I'm a big proponent of FSE is Losing control and also Not being able to do everything and therefore not willing to go as far as you can with what's available Just as a comment that I've experienced is it's okay to give up some control Even if you think you can trust some users, especially if they have a strong brand, but also We've always had to create something custom for something So learn how to build that custom in a block if the block doesn't exist You have to add to your tool so and be able to make that custom So don't say oh FSE is not gonna work because I don't know how to make the custom block that I need Learn how to make the custom block and now you have all the awesome new tools with you It's it's got to be the complete mindset, but it's worth it. Yeah, it's worth it It's hard work to But the tools that for developing especially on the block front have evolved to quite significantly And even with create block theme like being able to create a theme without using code It's more like that's that's almost like hard to grasp a concept of used to take months to build a theme if Out or maybe a couple weeks if you're quick But now you could do it even if you're fairly new to it But you like to tinker maybe it takes a few days to put to it together those components and publish it I think we're we're approaching this this new era of You know this theming and block editing and also we need some of that extensibility to really like empower the editing experience But we're on the cusp of that and I think that that's such an exciting and opportune time to be a part WordPress I guess that's it. All right. Thanks so much everyone. Let's give them a round of applause. Thanks rich