 Hi everyone. My name is Sandy Baird and I am the secretary-treasurer of the Cuban American Friendship Society. The Cuban American Friendship Society is a group that was founded in the 90s when I and a number of other people went to Cuba and we decided that we should treat our neighbor, the Cuban people, with friendship and with neighborliness. And we formed a group called the Cuban American Friendship Society. We have been going to Cuba ever since to express our support, our friendship, and our love for our neighbors who are only 90 miles away. During the COVID period, we have not been in Cuba, but recently we went back to Cuba to attend a conference at the University of Havana Law School. And you can see a picture of all of us that were there at the law school during the period of time between May 16th and 18th. It was a three-day conference to which we were invited to discuss from the Cuban point of view the Helms Burton Act. And we will be discussing that act and other foreign policy toward Cuba, which the United States has implemented and has issued laws about ever since the Cuban Revolution, which took place in 1959 when Fidel Castro and his colleagues entered Havana and declared Havana to be a new kind of government. Eventually, he declared Havana to be a socialist government and a republic. And ever since then, the United States has declared both hot war and also economic war, which is still war by other means against Cuba. Remember, Cuba is an island only 90 miles away. So we'll start tonight with a little clip of present foreign policy about Cuba enunciated by the senator from Florida, Marco Rubio, who has enunciated for years the foreign policy of the United States toward Cuba. Okay, and we'll show that. Yeah, here he is. Do we have any sound? No, we can go back to the beginning. Maybe we can discuss that a little bit. Maybe we can discuss that a little bit, what Rubio says. Since 1959, when Fidel Estes or Fidel Castro and his colleagues entered Cuba, the Cuban government had a change. Prior to that point, the Cuban government was led by the dictator, a man named Felicencia, I believe, not across the gram, but Tista, who was so-called dictator of Cuba. It wasn't a totalitarian regime exactly, but he was a very cruel dictator, very allied with the United States, very allied with the corporations of the United States, which own much of the property in Cuba and certainly controlled its economy. Ever since, really ever since the Spanish American War, which was between 1898 and 1904. In 1959, when Fidel Castro took over that government, the United States has been very cautious at first in understanding what that government was about, but eventually became hostile to that government and has sought regime change ever since. The reason being that the United States sought Cuba as being a socialist government, a government that was at least friendly with the Soviet Union at the time, and the Cuban government also nationalized many of the corporations, the US-owned corporations in Cuba, and began to operate those corporations and also the resources in the interests of the Cuban people, rather than in the interests of the profit-making corporations that were owned by the United States. That has been the policy since 1959. The policy of the United States then became incredibly hostile to Cuba and through a series of both hot wars and what you might think of as more cooler wars, embargoes, blockades, and also sanctions. The United States has been seeking what we now know and has been enunciated as regime change. The first thing that the United States did during the Kennedy administration, that was in 1961, is it implemented a war, an actual war against Cuba at the Bay of Pigs, in which private armies from Miami and from other Caribbean countries entered Cuba and tried to overthrow the regime with guns and with violence. That was met with the forces of the Cuban government, I guess, because Fidel Castro had been informed about that situation and those invaders were repelled and sent back. Many of them were killed as well. That was in 1961. There was then the desire on the part of the Cuban government to ally itself more closely with its main friend, which was the USSR or the Soviet Union, to arm itself against the United States in a missile deal. The USSR then was going to arm Cuba with missiles. That resulted in 1962 in the so-called Cuban Missile Crisis, which almost led to this nuclear war about the small island in Cuba. Somehow, cooler has prevailed between President Kennedy and Nikita Kuzchev and that Cuban Missile Crisis backed off. The result of that was that the United States implemented first an embargo against Cuba, which meant that U.S. would not trade with Cuba and travel was restricted to Cuba. Cuba was surrounded then with a huge superpower which sought to control its trade. That was in 1962. Restrictions got even worse during times of crisis. Our conference was then about the Helms-Burton Act, which was passed by Bill Clinton, President Bill Clinton in 1996. The Helms-Burton Act, well, let me back up a little bit. In 1991, the collapse of the Soviet Union, remembering that the Soviet Union was the main support of Cuba during all these years of embargo. But the Soviet Union fell apart in 1991. At that point, all kind of help and trade ended with that so-called special period. Cuba fell pretty much into an economic recession called the special period. The special period, I was there during the special period. During that period of time, there were huge shortages in Cuba for the very first time, really, and there was a shortage of oil. There was therefore no transportation. The electricity often was off. There was power shortages. That will last from 1991 until about 1996 or 1997, when Cuba became more self-sufficient, more reliant on itself, and the economy gradually recovered. They went back, for instance, to very traditional agriculture. They used oxen rather than tractors because they didn't have any oil. They started urban gardens. They had a strict rationing system so that people were very hungry, lost a lot of weight, but they did not starve to death. During that period of time, that very harsh period for Cuba, the Helms-Burton Act was passed by President Clinton and the Congress to punish Cuba at its most downtime. The Helms-Burton Act really is a blockade. There's a difference between an embargo, which the United States calls this economic war in Cuba an embargo, but really this is, as the Cubans call it, it is a blockale or a blockade. So what's the difference? The difference is that a blockade seeks to control third parties. The embargo, you might argue, is to control the trade between the United States and Cuba or travel between the United States and Cuba, but that blockade attempts to punish third parties also from dealing with Cuba. In the Helms-Burton Act, the United States says that this is to restore democracy in Cuba, and when democracy is restored, in accordance with the guidelines, I guess, of the United States, then these blockades and embargoes will end. In the Helms-Burton Act, Cuba is described as a totalitarian government. In it, this also described as such a totalitarian government that the United States has to pursue a policy of regime change, and that means getting rid of the Castro government or the Raul Castro government and also the Fidel Castro government. By the way, now there's an aside that government has changed. Fidel Castro is dead. Raul Castro has acceded to term limits in his left power. However, the blockade does still continue. By third parties, I mean that the United States says if a third party, Italy or Spain or Canada directly tries to deal with Cuba versus putting up a hotel, then the United States will say to that third party, then you can't put up a hotel here in the United States. In other words, the blockade means that the United States will not deal with, will not open its markets to any third party that is now dealing with Cuba. That's what the Helms-Burton Act strengthened during this very difficult time. The United States also has sought, for instance, a mandatory international embargo against the totalitarian Cuban government. That is they're asking the UN to also impose an embargo and a blockade against the Cuban government that has never been voted on in the UN. That is the policy right now of the Cuban government. The Helms-Burton Act then was a seminar held at the University of Havana Law School and the Cuban, the University of Law School, invited first me and then a group of colleagues to attend the seminar at the University of Havana. We were very graciously greeted, even at the airport, I guess, Peter, did you know that? I got a team together of people who went to Cuba to learn about this Helms-Burton Act, to learn also about the effect that the Helms-Burton Act, as well as COVID, has had on a once pretty vibrant island economy and how that Helms-Burton Act has acted on the Cuban people and with what results. So I'm going to turn to the other people who are with me, Graham Clark from CAF's Cuban American Friendship Society, as well as Eric Añero, to tell you a little bit about what they learned when they were there and the effects on Cuba. Yes? Graham? Okay, so let me introduce to you Graham Clark, a member of the Cuban American Friendship Society, who has led some of our teacher trips to Cuba. He's been there how many times? I was there in 1993, early in the special period, and then we had a teacher trip to Havana in the spring of 2019. And you were at the seminar too, right? Yes, I attended the seminar for two out of the three days. There was a lot of discussion about nationalization of assets. So sugar companies for the US, fruit companies from the US operating in Cuba in the 1950s, had plenty of resources and land that they had, let's say perhaps acquired along the way. And after the revolution by 1962, the Cuban government nationalized those assets to benefit the people of Cuba and not the stockholders of those companies, which seems like a fairly extreme step, except it's also a fairly normal step. Countries around the world have nationalized assets upon governments coming into power. Governments in the United States use eminent domain to acquire private land for public purposes, such as urban renewal in downtown Manuski, urban renewal in downtown Burlington, where the pit now is. That was once a vibrant Jewish and Italian neighborhood. The rotary in Manuski was a 75-year-old neighborhood that was leveled and for 30 years left vacant until finally some building started to happen. So the idea of governments within the United States acquiring private property through eminent domain or governments throughout the world using the term not eminent domain, but nationalization is not that unusual. Every country except the United States has settled with the Cuban government relative to compensation for the acquisition, so acquisition of the nationalization, so that the Spanish companies, the Italian companies, the French companies all settled through government to government negotiations between Cuba and those respective governments relative to the loss of that private property except for one country, the United States of America. The sticking point there, as I understood it and feel free to correct me, is that the United States of America will not negotiate the impact that the embargo has had economically over 60-plus years. So they're saying, hey, all things being equal, let's settle like the Spanish government did or the Italian government did for say Dupont companies loss of property in Varadero. Cuban government's response, this is said being simplified, is, well, we haven't been impacted by an embargo by the Spanish or the Italians or the French. That's why we were able to settle. You also have to the United States be held accountable for the loss of revenue that you've inflicted upon our government as we negotiate for this exchange. So that was a takeaway that I learned. However, in that way, I might have explained it right then. That's a big question though between the United States and Cuba, as Graham described it. These companies were nationalized, their assets were seized by the Cuban government. The reason for that is fairly simple. And that is that many countries, when they're in a revolutionary period of time, do nationalize property because they want to use their resources for their own people that occurred in Iran that has occurred in the Soviet Union. When a country believes that its resources, its oil, its sugar, its other resources should be used for the Nicaragua also, should be used for the benefit of the people of that country and not for the profit of foreign owned corporations. As Graham noted though, there were compensations made to other countries, all of them by the way have relations with Cuba. The only country that I know of that has an embargo and a blockade against this small island is the United States. All other countries deal with Cuba on a fair and humane basis and a business relationship, but not the United States. So you might wonder why is that? Why does the United States consistently and for 60 years punished Cuba for simply exerting its own sovereignty to be a socialist country? And by the way, it is still a socialist country. I think that is what bugs the United States so much. However, that's up for discussion. But all of the countries in every year comes up in the United Nations about the continuation of the embargo, the continuation of the blockade when the United States asks for a vote on that in the UN. There's only two or three countries that vote with the United States, the United States of course, Israel and perhaps, I don't know, I think there are very small countries like Micronesia maybe that votes, do you know? Anyway, but we have a third colleague who was with us in Cuba, Eric Agnero, who is a citizen right now of the Ivory Coast. So he had rather a different, I think, take the revolution. I was very honored. I mean, for an African, as I told our friends in Cuba, for an African to be in Havana is like a Catholic deport going to Vatican. Yeah, because Cuba has been for the African countries in their fight against the imperialist, you know, forces, in their attempt to be for some of them non-aligned and for most of them against the colonial powers, mainly European backed by the main ally, the United States of America. Cuba has always been a big brother to all these countries. Cuba has helped, and people don't know it, have helped, you know, the South Africans, ANC fight against the apartheid regime. Cuba has been in Angola. Cuba has been even helping Burkina Faso, you know, with the revolution of Thomas Sankara. And Cuba has always sent, you know, doctors, you know, and then for Africans, it's cheaper to send their students to Cuba. I was very pleased to be there and realized how much, you know, is the revolution entrenched in the people's mind. How can a country, after 60 years of blockade, can still have so many hospitals compared to, for example, the Ivory Coast where I come from, which is a very nice little puppy dog for the imperialist, I mean, for European colonial powers, but still doesn't have as many hospitals that I've seen in Cuba. I've seen, of course, and then it might be also due to the corona, you know, pandemic, I've seen that there was some tensions about, you know, getting food, getting basic, you know, you know, stuff on the market. But no matter what, I've seen people that were happy in Cuba. You said, oh, Eric, you should have been in Cuba earlier. It was even better. But I've seen a resilient population. I've seen also that it's not only the generation of Fidel Castro or Raúl Castro that's at the forefront of the revolution. The youth, the young doctors, the young professors of university are also, you know, they even sometimes more, you know, they're stronger in the point of views than even, you know, you imagine Raúl's things. And also I ask, you know, the propaganda from the West has always been, no, it's an issue between the US and Cuba, meaning it's an embargo. So Cuba doesn't get any stuff from the US by its versa. So I ask myself, how come the Cuban then are not doing well if it's only about the US and Cuba? Then I realize during the seminar that it is the real blockade. It's not only not getting my download or not getting things from the US, it's that the US is against any third party that is doing business with the youth. Then I finally understood why it is so difficult for Cuba. But remember, Grant, we were walking down a street and then we met with these guys that have a restaurant, a little family restaurant. And one of the waiter over there is a student in economics. And then he told me, I said, listen young man, why is it so difficult for you to, I mean, you said there's no tomato, there's no vegetables, I've seen a rubber land while I was, you know, the plane was a landing, I feel that we can farm here in Cuba. It's not that we don't want to farm, it's just that it's even cheaper today due to the blockade to import from the rest of the world a tomato rather than planting it. I say, how so? And he just said, the seeds, all the infrastructure, all the equipment, all the entrance that you need come from, of course, outside of the country. And it's difficult to get them. So how can you be, how can you do agriculture when you don't have access to machinery, when you don't have access to all the ingredients and entrance that are making sustainable? So then I realized that the way we judge a so-called dictator or dictatorship is sometimes doesn't see that reaction. Cuba being cornered maybe is going to act a little tougher on its people because, you know, anytime you can see that the people can make the revolution derail or be posing a real threat to the government over there. And the more the US pushing pressure, the more that pressure is going back towards the Cuban people. So it was very interesting to be there. I'm still analyzing whatever I've seen over there, but it's important that the left wing here understands what's going on in Cuba and put an end to the situation. Right. We have another member of CAF, who's on the Zoom out there in Electronic Land, I guess, in Zuland, who is Jim Court. Maybe he could talk a little bit about his reactions to the seminar. Thank you. Hi, Sandy. Thank you. Hello, Eric. Hello, Graeme. It's good to see you again. I'm glad that you have all arrived back home safely. Thanks, Sandy, for this opportunity. It was great to get to visit Cuba. The last time we were there was in November of 2019, when we were on a lawyer's trip, remember Sandy with the University of Havana. And that was our last time. And it was really a wonderful opportunity to get back there. My impressions, as there's so many of them, Eric, I will echo your sentiments about the resilience of the Cuban people because I have always been impressed by their resolve. They have a word for resolve there to describe their stamina and their strength in in opposing the blockade and their own government even, just in trying to survive. And they do, they do it very admirable. It's a very admirable quality that they have and an ability that they have. I was greatly relieved to see that the Cuban people, for the most part, have kept their good demeanor and good humor and just good presence despite suffering the last two years. It was very challenging for them the last two years to deal with COVID and the lack of tourists because 80% of their economy essentially is tourist based and it was just remarkable to see that they were doing as well as they did. And I was worried that they would have hardened and turned bitter, but it really didn't, that wasn't evident. It was great to visit again with old friends to see that they were safe and looking forward to the future. While we were there with our partners that we work with at Sips, which is the, I call it an NGO, it's a nonprofit organization that organizes a lot of our trips. They had two or three trips from groups from the United States in attendance. So the process of reacquainting and renewing that relationship with outside groups from abroad to come visit was starting again. And it was also just great to be there and to see that they're still there. I really can't describe it enough. It left me hopeful. It gave me hope that we're going to start organizing trips again to go back down. They're looking forward to it. They want us to get trips. I know Graham's going to organize the teachers trips when I've always wanted to resume another baseball trip. I'm going to take medical doctors down again. And I'm looking forward to doing that again. And there was really an enthusiasm for that to happen again. So I was glad to see that. I was distressed to hear that a lot of the young people are leaving the country because they don't see any hope in the future there. It's discouraging. But it also was heartening to see that a slightly older generation was still committed to staying there and trying to turn things around. I could point out that what Jim says is absolutely accurate. Young people do want to leave Cuba. But if you look at who's leaving every country on earth, it seems, especially in Latin America, especially in the migration that's occurring on the Mexican border, the world is emissary. The world is war torn. It is not only the Cubans who want to leave. There's some kind of perception. And I think that whoever is anti Cuba in our society is always talking about everybody wants to leave. Well, they want to leave Haiti. They want to leave Mexico. People want to leave almost the entire world because of poverty. And I'll tell you another reason that they want to leave is because of the wars of the United States. And if the United States would be more peaceful, more neighborly toward Latin America and really toward the world, there'd be a lot less migration because of, I think, because of the violence of U.S. foreign policy a lot. So while it's absolutely correct what you're saying, Jim, that Cubans want to leave, because I think largely because of the economy, it's also true all over the world. But it's interesting that you remember that a young lady said, yes, I want to leave, but I don't want to come to the U.S. Because they understand what is at stake. It's like a war between the U.S. and Cuba. But also the life that people might be looking for here in the U.S. It's not what she looks for. She doesn't want to be miserable in a job where she has to work all the time, doesn't have a social life, where in Cuba, like maybe the belly's half full or half empty, but you still have La Fabrica del Arte, you still have hearts in the neighborhood, you still have the Joao de Vivre in Cuba. But I also had the feeling that Cuba is at the top floor. The revolution is looking at what is happening to them through their lenses. But also other people are looking at it. I think, I felt it somehow that Cuba also, some people are questioning that hard line. I had that discussion with you. You said, with you, but it's Cuba that is suffering from the U.S. But I feel that within the Cuban society there's now maybe a time, and I felt that people are looking for a debate. I know that Marco Rubio has summarized the position of the U.S. as such, free elections, a free press, freedom for the prisoners of war, so political prisoners. So my question is, why that cannot be possible? Not to meet maybe the U.S. halfway, but to meet those who are not in favor of the revolution. It's just a question. I would hope Marco Rubio is in favor of free U.S. elections. We were only there for a short period of time, but the paradox is the confusion that rampant, well, I was surprised the amount of food in the market, so though certainly less access to things than three years ago. Dairy products were very scarce. And yet, you know, you and I heard that neighborhood nightclub with people streaming in and young, you know, I thought I was in New York City. So certainly a lot of young Cubans, like young people everywhere, are looking to get out of the country. And yet those six people we were talking with, they didn't even want remittances set from the United States. It's like, that's my mom's money in Florida. She should keep it. I am surviving here. I'm getting by. I don't want my mother's help. But so the third major impact on the economy, in addition to COVID, which has certainly impacted economies everywhere, and the blockade, which is unique to Cuba, is for two and a half years, three years, there was until two weeks ago extreme pressure by the United States not to allow remittances being sent back to Cuba, which almost every country in the world depends upon remittances from people who have left their country sending money back to 80 to South Africa, to Ireland, to Italy, wherever they would be. So that finally was lifted. But I was just struck by, it's so hard to simplify anything about Cuba, much like it is United States. I want to say something about, there is dissent in Cuba, just like Eric said, there's quite a bit of dissent in Cuba. What he also said is also correct. It doesn't appear to be a free press. There doesn't, I don't know their access to Miami, for instance. They might have access to Miami. They have access to the internet to some degree. So I feel and I've always felt that the Cuban people are much more educated about us, the United States, than we are about them. We know nothing about Cuba. We know nothing about Cuban life. We know nothing about real Cuban culture in the United States. They know almost everything there is to know about us, some of it not so pretty, I would also say. There is dissent in Cuba and sometimes it is punished severely. And it is right that the Cuba is dissent from their government and we should support everybody's right to dissent from their governments. Our job, though, as American citizens, which I constantly remind everybody that I can talk to, is to correct our government. That's my job. And so when I go to Cuba, sure, I see dissent. I see problems, particularly since this new government, in my mind, the government, the president, cannot be asked, he's not charismatic. Who could not be kind of mesmerized by Fidel Castro? This guy's not like that. So there's a lot more dissension right now, particularly since I found the economy, unlike my two colleagues here, busted in Cuba. I really found, this time, I've been going there since 1981, more poverty than I've ever seen before. And I was pretty sad about that. However, why does the United States, our country, make life so miserable for Cuba? Why can't we, at least, address our government and say, enough of this, these people are black people, people of color, they're our neighbors, they're poor. Why can't we make it easier? If they're going to flop, let them do it on their own. We don't have to have a blockade against Cuba. There's no reason Cuba has never been a security risk to the United States, ever, ever, ever. And yet we treat them as if they're enemies, just a human. Yeah. Maybe some of our friends want to pitch in. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's several people who are. Yeah, it's Jenna there, maybe to call them. Anita. Where, Anita, yeah, yeah. Well, any questions from Michael, Barb, Nancy? Anita. Anita Rapone was also with us. She's muted. Maybe she doesn't have anything to say at this moment. Are there any other thoughts about Cuba or about the US foreign policy or whatever? I did want to say, why do you think? Oh, I'm sorry. People are just wondering if we're looking up there saying Sam, Nancy, Michael, are there any questions people would like to ask? Hello? I don't know why I am under Sam Swanson, but it's very strange. You know, Joanne, I said to a quick listen. I know, but I tried to respond. Somehow my she's a fellow traveler. Sam Swanson is actually Joanne. You're at a fellow traveler who was on a trip. Right. So I'm Joanne and I just, of course, I agree with everything everyone's been saying. I just wanted to say that I do know that there are people who are leaving Cuba. Some of my family who are more prosperous, but have sort of gotten to the point where they decided they can't take the economy anymore. They don't want to leave for good. And a lot of people I hear are saying that they would like to be able to leave and then still come back and be in Cuba, hoping that things will begin to change after COVID restrictions. But I was very, well, I felt really good seeing all the young people at the conference, all the students participating, the students. And of course, I understand how intelligent and hardworking Cubans are, so that it doesn't surprise me in that way. And that there's so many who still are fighting to keep things going at the university. I did want to say just one thing, and I think the regime is making a big mistake when it comes to their monetary exchange, because I think it causes great problems with anyone who's going to be visiting, including us. I don't know if all of you felt that way, but just trying to figure out how to pay for things, which exchange, whether the dollar, the euro, and of course, the use of cards that we had to have to be able to buy in certain areas, in certain stores. It's very confusing, very confusing. But it was wonderful to be there. However, I did see lots of changes that were for the best because of the lack of tourism, the lack of people just spending money outside from outside of the country. However, I was too jovial because we've been there during better times. There was a brief period of time under President Obama when there wasn't really a honeymoon, but at least he, this is important, he opened diplomatic relations with Cuba, right? For the first time since 1961, because the United States didn't even recognize Cuba as a sovereign country and exchange embassies, nothing, remember that? Obama at least opened that and during open diplomatic relations and recognized that Cuba had a right to really exist and be recognized by the United States, and had full exchange of diplomats. That allowed also a free trade more or less, at least it allowed tourism. But when Donald Trump came in, he cut all the tourism off. He restricted travel for tourist purposes. And then when Joe, although Joe Biden promised to change it, he didn't change it either. Now, he has recently led up a little bit by allowing Cubans to send money back, American Cubans. But nevertheless, those restrictions are like it was during President Bush, all right, that back to that kind of really inhumane, punitive, hateful measures of emissarying the Cuban people. There's no reason for that. There's just no reason for it, is there on earth? You know, no matter I was very happy because I've seen a country which has been under these like terrible circumstances. But you know, I've seen schools, I've seen hospitals, I haven't seen, you know, homeless people. I haven't seen, I know that, you know, and then it takes you to question what is being food, what is having much. I've seen, I haven't, you know, I have seen people that maybe live frugally, but are much more happy. I don't know, I need to ask them if the fact that they don't have access to 10 rolls of toilet paper in a second, Walmart is something that they may form in the right. But it's an example for Americans who are blessed with so much resources, so much wealth under their feet, but don't do anything because they're still under either the influence of the European powers, or they don't do much about that. You've seen a country that very less, but still sending doctors to Africa, still, you know, having school for everybody, we went to schools that, you know, the University of Havana is even the place where you have the most beautiful and most solid buildings that the rest of the country, it gives you an idea of where the priorities are. Health, I've seen hospitals all around the country, Havana, and schools, so yes, you have to be sometimes, you know, blocking, I mean, you have to be facing fiercely, you know, the imperialist, you know, powers, if you want to have the chance to develop yourself organically. I want to ask if anybody has a thought about this, why does the United States singularly try to destroy Cuba? Why? This is a small island. I want to ask anybody, I have my own thoughts about it. Anyone else have any thoughts about, since 1961, the United States has sought to destroy Cuba? Why? Why? For the same reason that France is so severely punished, Haiti, because of colonialismism, the idea that Eurocentric white supremacy over poor Black and brown people, it's not, you know, why did the white English try to destroy the white Irish? They tried to destroy the white Americans too, I mean, the Colombian powers have thought a certain way. How about the Cubans in Miami? What about the Cubans in Miami, exactly? I have some on the top. My trip started in Little Havana. It's interesting because I'm riding a little carné de route on this voyage to Cuba. It started in Little Havana where, you know, I've seen another very... You like it? Yeah, but it's interesting. All the people in Havana, they would like to be in real Havana because, you know, with all the money that they have, with everything that they have in Cuba, in Miami, they don't have that history. So it's like two brothers, one in the U.S. that is so proud, ashamed also to go ask for forgiveness over there, and then you have people in Cuba, they really like America. But you love it. During the conference, they were looking at us because we had like, you know, some kind of sign in front of us saying... Wait a minute. The U.S. delegation. But any time they were talking, they were looking at us, like the way you look at someone who represents, I mean, or like the enemy you're talking about, but he wasn't too much of a hatred. He was like, brother, you see, we're telling you this is why this is happening, but not like we want to kill you. We know you're not welcome here. And at some point, Sandy said, okay, said something about the farewell letters of the U.S. president, which were telling the American people not to interfere with the other countries affairs, basically. And then that you were kind of a little sorry for what the U.S. is doing to their country. Then you saw that even the fierce, you know, fighter over there became so nice to you. And thank you. Thank you as well. You understand now why we suffered. You know what I mean? Let me explain. Well, Joanne also had a great exact question. What about the Cubans in Miami? What did you mean by that, Joanne? What's your... Well, I mean, I realized that I think our government cannot stand the fact that there is a communist, socialist government so close to our country and also that they have withstood our belligerence all these years. I mean, it's 60 years of trying to undermine their system and instead of trying to work through the people to decide whether they want to continue the regime, they've made it more steadfast. But I think that a lot of it is the incredible danger that these Cuban Americans pose to the political system in the U.S. that for some reason our politicians are so taken with these Cuban Americans and their political power that they kind of bow down to that. And I wonder with each president that goes by, that goes back and forth, whether it's a lot of it is the Cuban Americans. I don't know. What do you think? Nancy wants to... Okay, Nancy? Yeah. Nancy. And you do that, Nancy. Okay, so I agree. I think a lot of the problem is those people in Florida who are pushing and pushing and pushing. I don't know why they have over much influence than other people. But well, the other thing I was going to say is I agree with the woman who was just speaking that I think the U.S. can't stand the thought that a little obstreperous country whose socialist can have a chance. So speaking of unfriendliness. That's it. Jim, that's something to say, right? Sure. So it's fascinating to hear these comments because it kind of brings things a little more gives a little more clarity. I think the Cuban Americans in mostly in Florida, but you got to also recognize New Jersey has a very large population of Cuban Americans. And there's a Senator, a Cuban American Senator from New Jersey, Robert Menendez, who is very influential. And remember, the Senate is divided evenly at 50-50. So I had this conversation with Lindsay, who was the American lawyer that we met at the conference who was representing the companies that were being sued by Helms-Burton Act because of because Trump lifted that stay to prevent that. And he pointed out the fact that Robert Menendez is a very influential vote, but he is also beholden to the Cuban American conspiracy. That's the wrong word, but the anti-Castro group and the Florida Cuban Americans have an outsized influence. I think it's really unfortunate because they really don't have, they shouldn't have that much influence, but they still do. And the reason is, is that they are such a large part of the Florida vote that every politician thinks that they have to maintain this hostility in order to go to get that vote. But the other interesting conversation is that, you know, if you, I think it's partly that the Democrats think they can still retake Florida. And I think that's a pipe dream. And it's like, if they were to let that dream, that vision go, that they will recapture Florida, which I don't think is likely, they can put this beside them, you know, and ignore, and then maybe diminish the influence of the Cuban American, you know, anti-Castro group, their influence. I just think that, you know, I can't quite figure out why they have such influence. They really don't, they really shouldn't because I do want to make a comment about that because I don't think, I think that people like us tend to think it is only the Florida vote, which is not correct. The real reason I think is what something Eric said, that Cuba is a symbol to the whole world of resilience, of going its own way in spite of the opposition of the main imperial power on earth, the biggest empire on earth, that Cuba has gone its own way for 60 years, and that is dangerous as a symbol to all, to the government. I don't, I think the American people don't care that much, but I do. It's a very good point, and it's true. And I think the only reason that continues though, is that Cuba is because Cuba is so small, and it doesn't really, let me rephrase that. We don't pull this crap with Russia, we don't pull this crap with China. The stuff that, the stuff that we do against Cuba, we would not get anywhere, you know, we get in traction with Russia and Cuba and China. It's because Cuba is a small, pretty indefensible island, and we can be a bully, and that's what it is, and we're being bullied. We tried to do it to Russia, didn't work. Yeah. We tried to do it to Russia. And then it would be, you know, the U.S. will appear weak if in the backyard, like it's like asterisks and a gollua. Asterisks and a gollua is like a tralline, the diehard French gollua against the Roman Empire. Oh yeah, the Galois, yeah. No, what? The Galois. Asterisk is a cartoon. Yeah, but for the rest of the world, you're right. If Cuba managed, I mean, for example, if the U.S. said, okay, enough is enough, basta, okay, Cuba, go your way, you can do whatever. All the countries that Cuba inspired will also rise against France, England, again, all these, you know, colonial powers that are up there, over there. And also maybe it's a lot of fear against the divorce, against Cuba and America, because Cuba used to be the little mistress in the Caribbean. A rebellious mistress is always someone that wants to slap an opportunity, it's like that misogyny, you know, attitude of superpower that's getting people. But Cuba was a playground for the United States. Cuba was, I mean, you go into the Nacional Hotel and you see a statue, not a Fidel Castro, but a Nat King Cole, you know, Cuba has always been fun for the rich. No longer is that, but it still is a lot of fun. A mafia, the mafia, not the mafia, right, exactly. For me who learned about the Cuban revolution and then the relationship between America and the US and Cuba, why do you think Cuba has been able to resist for 60 years? Esprit, for one thing, I don't know how. They're resourceful and intelligent. Very little assistance. They now, I mean, they had assistance with the Soviet Union for a long time, but the Soviet Union collapsed. They're on their own now. But I have an idea. If you see, for example, in Burkina Faso, why? Burkina Faso's adaption. Burkina Faso's adaption. Why Tumas Sankara was really, is just that Tumas Sankara was not corrupt, was not like, you know, taking all the money of the country for themselves, you know, compared to other countries. If Fidel Castro was a Batista, I'm pretty sure the revolution wouldn't last a year, because it would have been too weak to just have to poison him, whatever. If, I don't know if it's right to say that the Cuban leadership did embody the revolution, or at least its constraints, but in themselves. I don't know what I'm saying. It's true if, like, if it's because Fidel Castro was a frugal man, it's because, you know, maybe those who were in power were directing the little money that they had for the benefit of the rest of the, most of the, you know, the revolution in Africa didn't succeed, because the revolutionary itself ends up taking all the money and corrupt the system. So the fruit itself, you know, died or rot, you know, compared to Cuba where I've seen that, I mean, it's an island. So if Fidel had like so much money in the country, it would have been no, right? Well, I don't know how much corruption he's ever accused of. And I don't know, for instance, the present regime. I do know that it did appear that the Castro's were not as corrupt as what happened in Africa after independence, the leaders at least accused of a lot of corruption. But I really think there's more to it than Florida. And I really almost insist on that. Cuba means something to the rest of the world. It means something. That's why, for instance, it's unclear where Cuba's going to be in the war with Ukraine, because Cuba has always gone its own way. And it's always been assisted by Russia and now by China. It has been independent from for a long time from the United States and punished by going, for going its own way. And the Monroe Doctrine, too. It isn't right. What? No, that's a Cuban missile crisis. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right, right. Nancy? Yeah, Nancy. That's right. I just wanted to add, if I can remember what it's going to say. Oh, I think Che Guevara was inspiring to many people. Yes, in a t-shirt, it's all over the world, Che. Right. And I mean, he traveled around South America inspiring those countries. Yes. And when Nicaragua was having success, we couldn't stand that either, the US. No, I know, but they still can't stand it. Okay, there's right now, Biden has declared the summit on the Americas. So you all know that, right? Yes. And as always, and especially with the Organization of America States as well, Cuba is never invited to any of these Latin American conferences. So in the Summit of America, the United States, it's in Los Angeles, has declined to invite Cuba, Nicaragua, or Venezuela. But for the first time, the other Latin American countries, they're not going to go, they're not going to go. And that was Mexico, a couple others today, two Honduras. What? We're going to stick with Cuba. So Latin America is, I think that given the world situation, the hopeful places are really in Latin America, Africa, and in, I don't know, parts of Asia, I guess. But mainly, the third world seems to me to be on the rise in a new way. And that's inspiring at least somewhat to me. And Cuba's always been inspiring to me. However, we have to end this blockade to give them a chance. That's really what I think. Are there other comments or thoughts? Grant mentioned the Monroe Doctrine too, right? And we all know the Monroe Doctrine in 1823 basically asserted that the United States from 1823 onward would be the hegemonic power within the Americas and that they would, they would never again allow any other European powers to have power within the whole hemisphere. That was the Monroe Doctrine in Asia. And that has been in practice really ever since. But I'm not sure it's going to last very much longer. Anyway, Miss, anybody, anybody have any final thoughts? Well, I just think we need to keep going to Cuba. And I think everybody needs to go to Cuba, Joe. Yes. That's the important thing to help the people. Yes. And that's not even illegal. Remember that tourist travel right now is not allowed under U.S. law. Not, I mean, Cuba welcomes you. But under U.S. law, you still have to have either a humanitarian purpose and educational purpose, a religious purpose. You can go and start a church if you want and if they want. But there are certain requirements that have to be met, but that the Cuban American Friendship Society will be continuing to take educational trips and people who are interested in learning about Cuba to Cuba all next year, starting maybe in the fall. Yeah, I think also that it's important to also educate the Americans and the rest of the world, Cuba. I learned a lot. Now I know better. And I'm pretty sure if other people living in the U.S. were exposed to what I've seen, they would change maybe, you know, or at least they would know what is going on. Because a lot of the people think that the problem with Cuba is just that we don't, you're not allowed to buy a Cuban cigar or just not buy the wrong. It's beyond, it's more than that. I'm pretty sure if we bring the information, we share it to the people here, something can happen. People-to-people connection can maybe force the Americans or the public to influence, you know, the foreign policy. Okay, that's what I've always thought. I call it detente from the globe. Peace from underneath governments, people, people, exchanges. However, I'm not certain that we changed the government, have we? Briefly during Obama. Briefly. We did. Yeah. Anyway, maybe within our lifetime, what do you all think? Huh? It's a hope. I sort of, depends on how hopeful you are. An idealist- I'm sorry, you've always been a lot more hopeful than me. Yeah, I am, I am. I'm not saying where I'm at with all this hope stuff. But the world also is changing. So there are multiple poles of, you know, of power now. Iran is getting there. I mean, it's not that I'm pushing for Iran to be a nuclear power, but Iran, you know, the brakes, you know, so the brakes. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Marshall. Marshall. India. So it's not, it's no more unipolar, you know, the world, where it's like, where it's like, whatever, they want the rest of the world. There's a worldwide change that could maybe also, that Cuba can profit from, which is a new, a new era with a connection to other countries. And that new era might mean that the United States, not on the rise in power, I think. Those nations, which Eric was mentioning, is Brazil, Russia, India, China, and China. And that seems to be a brand new alliance that's growing in the world, which is essentially going to be a very powerful alliance, put it that way. So as Grant noted, the presidents of El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala have joined the president of Mexico to, they will have representation there, but those presidents are not going to attend the summit of the Americas. In South America. During the exclusion of Venezuela and Cuba. Yeah. That's, that's notable. That's notable. That's notable, especially when it comes from Mexico. Yes, right. What? Right, right. So the U.S. ain't got no teeth? Well, it does. It still doesn't. Okay, so any final thoughts or questions? We'll be back in a couple of weeks. I think I'm the 23rd that Vicki will be presenting on the expansion of the airport in South Burlington. So join us then for another interesting, I hope, evening. So thank you all for being with us. Keep an interest in CAFs. What? I said keep an interest in CAFs in the Cuban American Friendship Society. Yes, obviously. Yes, that's what I need to do. Okay. Hasta luego. Bye.