 You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. The shit I've seen as a teenager on my run up to so solid through so solid and into my adulthood, some of the shit I've seen I shouldn't have seen. I think about, it's this interview honestly because it's a platform to share and being a humanitarian, I'm like help the world. My Nana before she died, she saw me on the front of Evening Standard. She found my mum like, is Lisa dead tonight because it said so solid shooting and it was my face on the front of the cover but they always used my face so that it didn't look as bad and it didn't seem as bad and I was the one that got sent to the interview and because I weren't part of all the violent side. Sometimes we take life for granted as well, sometimes we're always wanting more, sometimes it's good to just slow down and go wait a minute, we've got our health and we see other people struggling and life isn't that bad, I like I'm on and I'm constantly trying to improve that. Every time I try and level up I try and get more success, you need to go through more barriers, more pain, more sacrifices but sometimes we've already got everything that we need. Yeah, you've just got to know, you've got to look at it yourself and go, shit I've got my mum still and that sometimes makes me angry that I feel like I've been living waiting for her to die sometimes, you know. That makes me very angry sometimes, I don't know it makes me just so angry that you go through so many things in life, you go through so many things in life and it always treats the nicest ones bad, you know, so it does make me angry sometimes. Welcome back on, today's guest we've got Lisa Maffi, how are you Lisa? I'm really well thank you. It's good to see you. And you, I feel that. It's been a long time coming to get this interview happening. It really is. Honestly it really is, thank you. Phenomenal Korea, Soso Alley Crew, kind of put a lot of people on the map, some mega names coming from yourself, Harvey, Ash, Romeo and some bastards on it. Yeah they are good looking boys aren't they? Phenomenal coming from the streets of London to then getting the recognition, winning awards all over mobiles, Brits. Phenomenal, fair play to you. It's been good, it has been good but a lot of the names and faces that were made from there, had this stigma for many years that was that it didn't allow us to be exactly who we needed to be, to be more successful. I feel like it's nowadays that we've kind of made that pioneer status for ourselves because the music itself has, it's lasted forever, 21 years to be attacked. 21 seconds to go. 21 seconds, yeah. Is it 20 years or 20, I think it's 20 or 21 years in 2021. And that's, does that last three times Platinum? Yeah. Well I think we're four now. So is that? Every million? Yeah a million yeah. So that's four million, that's unbelievable. Well the last one I saw was 2.6 million but it said above, more than 2.6 million so I think it's about three million, four million. Yeah. Well touch on Sol Solacrew later on then, if you obviously you were the only girl in the band at the start and Phenomenal to do that, especially if you surrounded so many alpha males, you're an old genie game even though you're still looking very young. Yeah thank you. I'll always go back to the start of my guess, where you grew up and how it all began? I grew up in Brixton whilst the boys were all in Battersea but being a little tear away tomboy that I was, I spent a lot of my time with the boys in Battersea because I just, I came with, you know, the funniest thing is one of my best mates. I was, best friends with her were hence why I even met so solid but I ended up with them on my own because I was always that tomboy, I was always the one that, you know, got on the back of the stolen bikes and got in there, you know, got in a little bit of trouble with the lads. The girls weren't on what I was on so I found myself always end up with the boys and I think that's probably why I ended up with so solid. How was your school then? I was wicked in primary school, such a good kid, such a wonderful kid but I was bullied and when I got to secondary school, you know when you have that thing, I just had that thing, I'm not having it. So anyone who's anyone says anything to me, I'm going to just go for him and I think that's, that affected school, badly. How was your parents? Is your dad, is Jamaican, your mum's half Italian? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got Sicilian, we got Turin, we got British, we got Scottish, we got everything in us. Yeah, Scottish, they got blood everywhere. Oh yeah, they got a bit of Scot as well. How was your upbringing with them? Mum, I mean, my dad wasn't around, my dad wasn't around much and when he did, the last memory I have of my dad actually face to face in my house, he came and I remember thinking, shit, I ain't going, he's not taking me and I was crying upstairs and me and my, it was me, my sister, my mum in that house and when I was upstairs, I said to my sister, don't let him take me, don't let him, because I just thought this, this person that's supposed to be my dad that I don't know, is come to take me and I'm not having it. Being so traumatised with it, I begged my sister and my sister is 18 months older than me, I begged her please don't let him take me, he said, don't worry, I'm not going to let him take you. I was like, hallelujah, my sister is going to save me and I could hear my mum talking to my dad and his friend that was in the front room downstairs and I came downstairs and I just, I peeked around the corner and he was like, come in, come and say hello to your dad and I started looking at him like, hell no and I feel like where I was so traumatised and so worried, my nose started bleeding and instead of coming in the room and saying hello and getting my mum's help, I wiped my blood down the door frame because I just didn't want to go in there, it was like, I don't know this man and he's going to take me and it was just that fear in me, I think that's why my nose started bleeding and my mum said, oh god, my nose is bleeding, oh look, you're worrying, you need to go, the relief in me that my mum was saying, you need to get out, so leave her alone, it was like, oh my God, thank God, I don't have to go with this man and then once he was gone and he came back again to take me out for the day out to get to know me, I said, I'm not going unless my big sister goes with me and she agreed to go with me and we went out for this day out and I just remember just sticking like glue to my sister the whole day thinking, I am not getting left in this man, this person and that person was my dad and I just couldn't get used to it. Yeah, no bond, no connection, do you think that's why you became more surrounded with the boys kind of for father figure? Do you know what, I was thinking about it and as soon as I agreed to do this interview, my system was like, you've got to do this platform, it's brilliant and as soon as I thought about it, I was thinking about how deep I want to go, how much I want to express, how much I want to share and it starts to bring up old things and you start thinking about why you like you are and thinking about what I wanted to share on this platform, it made me think about who I am, it was like a therapy session a bit and you start going delving into who you are and why you do things and you might be right, but not having a father figure around, I never actually thought that, but not having a father figure around might be the reason I was so tomboyed to stay in with the boys so that I had that mal figure around, you know. Yeah, but it doesn't do you any harm, it doesn't do you any harm. I think it did in a way because I didn't get to bond with any girls and I didn't get advice from girls, it was already mal, you know, testosterone stuff, you know, the shit I've seen as a teenager on my run up to so solid, through so solid and into my adulthood, some of the shit I've seen, I shouldn't have seen. What have you seen? Too much. Murder, stabbing, violence, a lot of shit. Yeah, and it's been from people, people are all my closest, you know, things that have happened to me, not saying that anything abusive would happen to me as a child, but I did see things when I was a kid that I feel I made acceptable to then to cope with it, to cope with that and then you and then I think then when you cope with that, when you go into your relationships and you go into and you see things or feel things from a partner or from your friends or see stabbing is right in your face, I find I made all of that acceptable because I saw it when I was a kid, so it was like So it became the norm for you? It's the norm. The unabusive relationships yourself? Yeah. So you accepted that as if it was normal because you'd seen it on your own? Yeah, I feel like I think narcissism lived in all of my relationships. I've only actually had three, four relationships. I've had a, you know, a bond with someone that, you know, I didn't really feel was a relationship. But the other really, I've had three relationships and that was from 13 years old. Have you ever been in love? Yeah, I think I think I loved all of them, honestly. But I don't know. There comes a difference between lost and love where I don't know now if I know what love is because how could I say it's love for these shit relationships that they abuse you mentally or they abuse you, you know what I mean? I just, I don't, I don't know if I know what love is, to be honest. Yeah, probably the same. Like if someone loves you, then they should not harm you. So it's not really love. So you've just accepted that it's been normal. Maybe you've seen your mum going through that same shit. Yeah, I did. It becomes the norm where you're getting treated like shit, but I always kind of speak about it all the time. The Stockholm syndrome is when people keep going back to the misery because they're connected to it. It's not that they don't want it. It's just that if somebody's been bad to you, then when they start being good, you're thinking, OK, they've changed. They've changed and it's good and it's stronger and it's because they love you. You start making all excuses to shit, you just don't, on an ordinary day, you wouldn't be acceptable. And I sit there and tell my friends, don't, don't have that. Like, don't let him do that to you. Don't let him cheat on you and go back with him. Why are you going to get back with him? But you do it yourself when it's time, you know? Did you get treated well from being in the boys at such a young age? Or you try to be a boy, boys just yourself and kind of rebel. So when I was growing up, I became one of the boys. Like, I was the girl in the boy, like with the boys. No one wanted to sleep with me. No one wanted to make that sort of connection with me because I was so boyish. I was like being one of the boys. And I made sure it was that way because I watched a lot of the girls around me getting into sexual relationships, growing up, and it wasn't turning out right for them. It wasn't good for them. But then I craved, and my sister had a baby really young and younger than me. And in my household, it became, I became that other person. It was my mom and her boyfriend. It was my sister and her boyfriend and her baby and then me. So I felt like a middle child, you know, like, you need to get, I needed to get out of there and I needed to find my own sort of lane, my own sort of place. And I couldn't wait to get out. So when I ended up with all the team of the boys, I was well protected and I felt like I was looking for that a bit. Family. Yeah, a new family, but the girls were bitchy. I watched the girls going like wanting to sleep with all the boys because we was of that age. But were you protected over them as well though? No, because I was one of the lads. I don't know if you understand, like I was one of the boys. Yeah, were you protected over the boys though when girls tried to sleep with them? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, left them to it. I used to be like, girl, watch out. Like, yeah, she's kind of, yeah, she's kind of pretty. And guess what? She's not a slag. I used to give them the insight of who they were, you know? How many was in that group at that time in your teenage years? Oh, before So Solid? Yeah. Oh, wow. There was so many, like, I don't know if I can really count So Solid. I can't because there was so, we had everything in the house. So there was a lot. From that young age, because obviously the ones I mentioned, there were some that didn't make So Solid, you know? Who picked? I think it just fell into place. Whoever was the sickest, you know, whoever, whoever came forward with something to contribute to So Solid and it just got bigger and bigger and bigger. But the 10 artists, they're like, not including Oxide and Trino, the 10 artists is what everyone knows and they are the artists from the very beginning to the end. But they were others. You feel pregnant at 17. How was that? Were you thinking? I was desperate to get pregnant. Did you? Yeah, because I knew that was a way out. I knew that was a way out of me being, feeling like the loose end in my own house, you know? It helped me get a place. It helped me find myself and who I was. I was a lot, I know a lot of people that say you think you was, but I was actually really growing at 17. Like, I was really growing. I left school a little bit early because I was bullied and I went into college and Damajee said, see is an art and design and photography diploma. I was in work and I was working two jobs. I was going singing school. I was starting So Solid. There was so much going on that when I got pregnant, it was like, it doesn't matter. I'll be all right. But you're working so hard at a young age. Do you think you're running away from something? Yeah, for my, for my home life. Yeah. Yeah. Was it tough in there? It wasn't tough. It was wicked. My mum, my mum was the best mum. Like she really took time out for her girls. She didn't go work. She worked from home. She, she got us everything we wanted. That we was never, ever, you know, that hard dark. My mum made us learn, learn, taught us how to save, taught us how to be as women, to respect ourselves. But there was that connection missing where I didn't feel needed. And I'm a German eyes. So I need all the attention. You did bastard. Yeah. Give me all. So how did, when you feel pregnant and you had your daughter, how did, what happened with your life then? Did you realise that you get into the music industry? How did that come about? Because before 21 Seconds, you'd already had a top 10 hit, is that right? Yeah, we had, we had, oh no, sent a lot of things. And unfortunately, we had a record label that weren't not unexperienced, but they made a mistake by putting too many versions of our single on the record. And that made it go into the album charts. But it wasn't an album, it was one track and it was loads of different versions and remixes. So we didn't chart, but we saw, we saw a ridiculous amount of records on that first. How old were you? 19. So how did you juggle that then, starting to get put into the limelight with your daughter working jobs? So at first it was like, I was still working. I was still working in an offer licence. And I took a job in an offer licence in Loughborough Junction because I didn't want to go work and leave my baby. So I could get to take her to work with me every day. She used to come and work with me in the offer licence. So I took that job and I had that for two years. And it was only until my status of, so sorry, was getting bigger and bigger, people were coming in like, wait, ain't you Lisa Mavio? I'm like, yeah. And they're like, well, what are you doing in here? But my status was getting bigger, but then my pocket, I was still doing my little social security stuff and doing my little hustle. And I didn't have the money. I didn't have the money. I had a bad relationship with Chelsea's dad. So I was on my own and trying to work, trying to do so solid. The boys were getting paid way before me because they were emceeing. I went on that NCC and I came as a singer. So I was like working in this offer licence for about, I don't know, 150 a week. It was ridiculous money. But it was to help me get out of my situation. And at that time, I didn't really, and I never ever thought I'd be a musician. I never ever went into that studio that day to record, oh no, and thought, I'm gonna be famous. I just done it because they asked me to do it. And that's typical me, humanitarian. Do what you, you know, help out. Yeah. And it just ended up being like, it never changed my life. That's all about the chances in life that because the vision's not there, but it's when you actually do something, it opens other doors and then stronger vision's coming. You go, wait a minute, fuck me, I can't believe that just happened. But if you took the day off there, your life would be totally different. It's unbelievable. But the shit I've made, what I've come through, I think to myself, how, how am I this lucky? Like, how have I ended up here? Like, no plan, no nothing. And gone through something so horrific and then gone, shit, this is good. Like, I knew some of it must have been coming through. What was it even through horrific? Just things, just like, there's so many things. There's, it's this interview that's actually unlocked a lot. Can you see it already? They seem emotional. You already seem quite emotional. Oh no, I'm emotional because we lost yet another person to Corona today and I am, I just, I feel a little bit like, a bit more like, and I've been thinking about, yeah, thank you. I think about, I mean, it's this interview, honestly, because it's a platform to share and being a humanitarian, I'm like, help the world. But a lot of people take inspiration from it because yous were pioneers of the game and the hip-hop gaming from boys from the street. Cause 21 seconds, everybody that sings in that, they sing for 21 seconds. They do. I didn't know that. What? I did not know that. I didn't know that until like two days ago. Did you know my real name's Mafia? Yeah. Oh, you did? Yeah, not that. Did you do that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't know 21 seconds was 21 seconds each. I didn't know that, I didn't know that, no. Shit. Yeah. Yeah. That's unbelievable. That's G-Man that was. G-Man came up with that concept. He was like one of the heads of So Solid and he was the one that took the back seat and like done all the meetings for us. None of us, myself and most of So Solid, we all weren't, we was just dying to be musicians, but we all had a business sort of way of thinking of getting ourself where we needed to get ourself on a hustle. Yeah. But you must have had a bright head then because you're already working two jobs, you're already hustling. Yeah, I mean, no, I mean, I didn't become Lisa Mafia because I mean, So Solid, Lisa Mafia, because of just me, it was everyone else's talent that has the same as anyone in So Solid. Our contribution to So Solid has made So Solid. But Lisa Mafia became Lisa Mafia because I had everyone there to encourage me to be this Lisa Mafia. But I always had a business hustle because I was born into hustling. My mum was a hustler. So how did that song come about then? You're saying G-Man's that? The guy, do you have a relationship with him? Yeah, I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. How did that affect that? Not, we were good because we knew each other from 13 years old. The same as I knew also, So Solid from 12, 13 years old. But yeah, it didn't affect So Solid. He was a bit jealous though, G-Man, G-Man. Sorry, mate. He was a little bit of a jealous guy. Like, he would be like, why are you standing there chatting to everyone? Why I'm over there? I'm like, sorry, mate. But I think that came with the status, like the bigger I was getting. The more attention. The more attention, the more... It must have been difficult for him because we were young, shit. We were so young. And it was time it came up after 21 seconds. Yeah, he's a G. That G-Man is a G. He changed lives for that track. It really did. How did he pack who was going to sing in it? No, so what happened is Oh No got so big on the, like, underground that G was like, how are we gonna get the rest of these damn artists all out at the same time? Like, we need to get everyone out there in one bang. How? How are we gonna do that? So he broke it up because when you're doing a record, is it three minutes something or two minutes something? Whatever it was, he worked out that with 21 seconds of bars each, we could all get on this fucking record. So it was like, that was like, we like, what an absolute genius. Do you know what I mean? And then we did it. I think you're outside the box, man. I don't think it's ever been done with so many people singing on a record. I think it has, but not that many people in a perfect sequence, you know? So, see when he's done it, did you think we've got a banger here or are we just going with the flow? I don't know if maybe some of the boys did, I didn't. Cause I didn't really think any of the records that we were making were gonna be anything. I just never really thought anything about anything. I just was that kind of going with the flow. And when did, see when it popped, what was life like then? How hard was that? Or was that easy? I was thinking about this last night like, was it easy? No. Because even like my, I think, like now I think back and I'm wiser and got a business head and know how shit goes and shouldn't go and think back of who helped, who didn't. To be honest, I kind of would have been better off with someone else backing me, someone else looking after me because my management was the same management as So Solid. So whilst I was in So Solid, it was fine, but I didn't really get shit out of being just in So Solid. It was until, not until I went solo, then I started getting paid from So Solid and as a solo artist because I had my own thing going on and I was contributing to this big old drama that we were making where when I was in So Solid, management was exactly the same. So when I came out and was on solo, when I was a solo artist, my management and So Solid management is the same. So it's conflict of interest. So anything I actually wanted to do was asked by So Solid if it worked for everyone. So all the shit that So Solid went through kind of became my shit on my solo career. So when I do reflect back, I think I would have had more success by being a solo artist with somebody else over there doing my thing, a bit like Romeo did. He was like separate. That can be a difficult thing, especially it's good when everybody's working at the start, there's a team and it's fresh and it's new. But then the more people, the more problems I would assume because everybody's got different ideas, different visions wanting more money. They deserve this. Did that become 100s then? Because there was so many people involved. It kind of did because no matter what I did, luckily, luckily though, I have to give thanks for this. And I was thinking about this again a couple of days ago is that luckily for me, people, I would nice the people on the way up and on the way down. So I never really got that real bad backlash every time so solid rock to some sort of shit. You know, when they got up to something kind of, I kind of got that put Lisa on the front cover, you know, use her, she'll stop on the blow, that angelic face, call out the angelic voice, you know. My Nana, before she died, she saw me on the front of Evening Standard. She found my mum like, is Lisa dead? And she's like, because it said so solid shooting and it was my face on the front of the cover, they always used my face so that it didn't look as bad and it didn't seem as bad. And I was the one that got sent to the interview and because I weren't part of all the violent sides, I would go in there and like, I don't know, but they're really nice boys, you know. It would be me like, but they're really nice. You know, just the other day, they went and got me breakfast in the morning on tour and have a little giggle about it. And then the interview would be nice to me. And then a little nice story goes out. So in theory, it was tough for Lisa Mafia because Lisa Mafia was that only girl. So that was the time I became that girl. And then I wasn't one of the lads anymore. Like they used me differently. Yeah, do you think a lot of, especially with becoming so successful, there's so many people that was in so solid crew that are so talented. Do you think you were stereotyped as well for to have the gangster rap image instead of just letting them do their talent? Obviously, the bad shit comes with it. There's been bad shit that's happened, but do you think a lot of pressure come on the boys that they had to, because when they got the gangster rap label, that they had to live up to their reputation? I don't think the boys... I don't think the boys had a choice in a lot of shit that went down around so solid because unfortunately for them, our status was huge before our pocket. And then when our pocket got bigger, we was all very much in the same area. We never had that advice from anybody that come out of the hood like how we have, where we could now advise people like, get your money, get the heck out of the hood and put your money into really good things, where we were sitting on 1.1 million in the hood. We had TTs and all these expensive cars and diamond watches in the hood. Because no one ever told us to. We didn't think... Invest in. Get your mom, get your sisters, brothers, get them out, get your kids, get them out, get them out, take them away. Where we just thought, we'll stay in our community and we'll help. Where that's not the best place for you when you're on your rise. You can help better from far away, you know? And we didn't have that advice. A lot of leeches then. See the other thing and then... Yeah, and that's where a lot of it come in. I mean, it wasn't that far away of all the trouble that we had. A lot of people weren't strangers. They were people that we knew. So does that become more difficult then? To then everybody's want a piece of you, but if you're being from the streets and the hood that you say, you try and help other people because you don't want to forget yourself. Well, that's where... That's what hindered a lot of my solo career because I stayed very loyal to So Solid. I didn't go outside with outside writers. I didn't go and do any collaborations with anyone else. My management didn't help because as I said, the conflicts of interest. Stay with So Solid. Let So Solid produce the album, produce this, write this. I didn't come into So Solid as a musician. I came in as a person that loved music and as a hobby, you know? So it did hinder a lot of my career and the boys because the boys didn't get to really experience much straight away, you know, but the things that we experienced at the beginning were all negative. How was that? And the press all the time, all negative press? Was that difficult? Is that... Listen, I came to a club. I turned up at a club after the Astoria shooting and I turned up to a club in Watford and they had metal detectors. It was my solo career gig. Just me. I used to roll with just a security and my DJ. So it was just us three. They got checked. You know, you used to have record bags and stuff, right? So he went through. My DJ went through. My security were behind me. I had a skirt on no lie. Back in the night, we had skirts that were that big, yeah? They were tiny and a little see-through body suit thing on, right? So you could see everything. The mother fucker searched me. It was that disrespect that they couldn't risk anything. They fucking searched me with nothing on. I had no clothes on. And that is where I saw that we were making so much noise and so many things were happening around me that he was hindering my career. Do you think racism comes into play as well? Almost definitely. People from the streets are doing well for themselves. Less than the press kill people. They fuck people over. But also raise careers. Obviously, if you get the right PRs and all that shit, but kids from the streets, coming from the streets of London, flying, people not expecting it. Do you think, right, we can fuck them over here as well? Definitely. I think that's been a massive part of black music from the very beginning. Black music artists from the very beginning. Is that difficult then? Did you ever want to quit? I came from a time where it was difficult to be mixed-raced. Like, light-skinned people have come on the map since. Like, to be light-skinned is a thing now. Back when I was young and starting out, it was like you weren't black, so you weren't accepted by the black and you got a white family. And you weren't white because you're brown. So I was like in the limbo. I was like, hey, like me. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, it's been tough. It's been a tough ride. Because as a Korean, when was the mudda? Who was it? Is it Carol Morgan? Was it? Who's Carol Morgan? Is that the boy who done the mudda? Carol Morgan. Carl Morgan. Carl Morgan. Yeah. Carl Morgan. MC Enso's the one, too. Yeah, he's in jail for, I think, 30 years. When was that when you were just popping off as well? That was like kind of after though. That's like after the real big hype of So Solid, I think. Did that give you another wave of hate and negative? That actually were, for a lot of people in the industry, it was confirmation of what they said we were. Oh, well, there you go. You know, someone's been murdered. It's that sort of attitude. They hadn't looked at the case. They probably didn't even think about the case. They didn't think about who the person was, whether he was actually So Solid, no, a prime person of So Solid. They didn't look at anything. They didn't look at anything. They didn't care who Carl Morgan was, which is the most pure-hired person you will ever meet. Pure, like so pure. How did that affect your career? Mm, luckily for me, I was on a new wave by the time that unfortunately happened to Carl Morgan. Because you went solo and you got top number two straight away? Yes. Easy, peasy. So you think, were you trying to break away from it at any time? No, I didn't break away from it. My management at the time said, this is how it was conflict of interest, because when So Solid started going down with so much stigma and I was the only one left, now management wanted to back me. Now they're telling me to say, say you're not from So Solid. Don't tell no one you're from So Solid. Tell them that you had every headline saying, So Solid all of a sudden. Who the fuck told them to say that? Because I ain't former, I was there repping still. That is my crew. I'm not going to be called So Solid. Then their management's in the background. Yes, you are. Because now So Solid can't be used. Now they want to use me better. How hard is that in the music industry getting taught what to do and say? Well, you know what? It's a fucking lie. If any musician stands there and says, management said I can't do that. Bollocks, because they're being paid by you. So you can actually do what the fuck you want. You know what I mean? People just making excuses. People use that. They obviously, it's good to you sometimes, but don't let no one bullshit you. If that artist really wants to fucking do it, they're going to do it, trust me. Unless it was just us because we were So Solid, because I know that we had creative control over everything that existed. So management didn't tell me to do that. They did it. So they had access to all the press. They used to write the short bios. They used to dictate what's being said and where we use what and pulled the strings. So they would have said before my interview, headline will be Lisa Mafia, former So Solid. You know, because they wanted to make sure they capitalized off of Lisa Mafia, not So Solid Lisa Mafia, do you know what I mean? Was that a lot? It was tough because on the other end, I'd be like screaming So Solid and then I wouldn't be allowed in certain things and do certain things because I wouldn't leave the name alone. Do you know what I mean? Was there a lot of conflict between everybody when the money started coming in? No, I mean, So Solid cut a check from Lisa Mafia when I got signed. I paid So Solid through writing, production. So everyone got their little, if it worked, you got paid. If it didn't work, you didn't get paid. How was it going in Brit Awards and mobiles? How was that feeling when you've been nominated? There was so much going on. Because you've been nominated from So Solid and Solo. Fucking easy, innit? Easy again. I mean, those things are weird because for me, I kind of like, I was excited by it, but I had so much going on in my life in general. I didn't really appreciate it as much as I do now. And at the time I kind of like, I kind of like just thought, shit, this is, this is good, innit? Like this must be good. This is, but you don't really register. It doesn't register at the time. Because the boy is Ashley Walters. What's his real name? Ash D. Actually, what was it? Actually, it was real name. I've got another name who was in the 50 cent film. It's Ash D. Usually. Yeah. And then get Richard Di trying that top boy phenomenal career man that kid's achieved. And are you still contact with Ash? You know, he started from like Grange Hill back in the day. Yeah. And he's still on a new journey now. He's doing like, there's loads of new ones that he's got coming out. Yeah, he's popping up in the sky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's covered over the sky. He's got the whole event on lock. You must be buzzing then that people have still kicking on and producing the goods from 20 years ago. Yeah, I mean, there's not many of us actually active in music. The main two active on stage, week in week out before Corona, this damn pandemic, is me and Romeo. We are like out there like big. But then that all came about because in so solid when it all got torn down with the bad press and stuff and we weren't allowed to go anywhere, do anything. I went on to being a solo artist and even that came to a stop. And the label had put loads of money into other artists. They thought I would sell it. I would sell myself because of the success of So Solid and Lisa Mafia's beginning of a career. It didn't. And once the sales, they had spent so much money. I think my first video was like 280,000 pounds. It was ridiculous money back then. And they recoup all that off of your record sales. And obviously when it ain't coming back in, they've got no budget left. So they don't want to promote anything else to sell the album. So when that started to affect Lisa Mafia, I decided and remember the management that I had, they were all for it because they only had Lisa Mafia left now and so solid. No one else, no one wanted to touch. So when that started slowing down, I just refused again, my hustle nature kicked in. And I said, I'm not having this. So I got rid of my tour management. I got rid of my security. I had my boyfriend drive me up and down the country. I had him and his friends coming me so that I'd be all right. And I started collecting numbers and opened my own booking agency and started booking myself. And after a while of doing that, I became that girl on the club scene because everyone else out of garage had kind of been banned because of the stigma around garage music in general. So as normal, I don't ever want to do anything on my own. I like someone there. I've realized that I don't like doing on my own. I like seeing success and unfolding success with someone. And me and Romeo were the two on the scene at the time. So we started going, I think we first got together and made that Lisa Matthews Romeo duo in Magaluf. I think we do Magaluf. But me and Romeo were doing that alternative weeks. And we used to go cars, Valovacchi, all the islands, Malia, Zanti, Ayanapa. We used to be going, I would go one week and he would go the next week. And it was like that. We were chasing behind each other around all these islands, island tour. And I was on a show together once and I said, Rones, let's do this together. We could actually, I've got all the numbers. Can we start doing this together? And charge a little bit more doing a bigger set because it's me and you solo career together plus the same solid music. Let's start doing this together and making like a proper like showcase almost. And it started to work. And then we started getting further afield like the Dubai and Australia and all of the London gigs started to come back on because it was like, shit, this is the so solid feeling without all of the so solid on stage where it's dangerous right now. No one wants to do that. The club will get locked off. So me and Romeo started to take our lane together. How was it when you were booking out arenas but then they were getting closed down? Oh my God, that was heartbreaking because even myself I had financed a lot of raves. And started to get the gigs for myself and put the show on myself and do the line up and everything. And I would get to the day. We had something can send organs in Batchwood halls and it got to the day. There was probably about 1500 people outside waiting 10 minutes before opening. And we knew something was gonna happen that day because then police had already called the club and said, listen, if you go ahead and something happens, we're revoking your license. And they came to me and they said that like they're gonna revoke our license. I said, listen, I'll pay for, I'll pay 1700 pounds for another 10 police or whatever it was. And that should shut them up, right? And it was like, yeah, sure. So I paid this extra money to get these extra police down there. And they fucking locked it off 10 minutes before opening. They just locked it off. They said, no, we had another death threat for Lisa Mafia. So I was like, no one wants to fucking kill me. If they did, any of these stages I'm on, they could just come and get me. Do you know what I mean? There was no one. I think that was just an excuse to shut these down. Yeah, because there was that risk. But there must have been a bad fear of people were getting shot and killed prior. There was that risk. There was that risk from other ways. There was that risk that people would come there to find someone else. That's into the garage scene. The garage scene was like today's grime scene. Like it was massive. It still is as big. It's 20 years deep. And we're no stranger to the stage. With the same music we made 21 years ago. So it's not like it was just known around the violence. So it didn't matter that it was a so solid rave. It didn't matter. There needed that excuse to shut the rave. Did you ever feel walking away then? And thinking, fuck this. Oh my God, I've wanted to walk. I've hit rock bottom three times since the beginning of my career. Like zero money, not knowing what the fuck I'm gonna do. Started a nursing degree where it got that bad. I said to myself, you know what? I need, I want a career that means something. And I don't wanna work for no one. So I decided to start a nursing degree. Unfortunately, I didn't get to ever finish because music started again. And fucking wrote me back again. I thought, all right, nursing degree, I'll come back to you. And I went back three times. I went back to that nursing degree. How hard is it though to be getting smash hits, to then getting solo career? To then when things start declining? How is that for an artist when you start getting all the negative hate from all the love? How difficult is that for someone to handle? Especially coming from the streets. It's not been really media trained into getting all that pressure and then thinking, fuck me. I need to find another path. When really the music is what you love, being surrounded by people that you trust. Because you say that you want to, you need somebody there. But for me, that means like a wee bit of abandonment issues that you can't, you don't want to do it alone. It's not that, because we all get fucking lonely, don't we? Especially for a young girl who's achieving big things and you've not got that father figure there. You're having to put your trust on to people that you don't know whether that's managers or people behind that. How hard was it though for when things went down and down like a decline when you said you were battling mentally? I feel like the decline makes you who you are. That's where the growth is. Yeah, like it's like, it's where you find your strength when you're down. And even when I was up, I felt down at times, you know? So I feel like them lessons that you learn when you've had it all, this one again, like being how I am has got me in so much shit because I want to help every time I'm up. I'm like, let me help you do that. Let me put your money, let me pump some money into that for ya and watch someone else have that power with the money that I've made. Because I feel like I've had it easy, you know? So it's not that I like it down there, but sometimes that place down there is where you learn something new about yourself. Yeah, that's the place where you'll find your inspiration. That's the place because you're clearly a fighter, even at the ages of 16, 17, working two jobs to feed your kid, just constantly pushing the boundaries. Even now you're still hustling. Even now you're still pushing the bar and want to be better. And like everybody hits lulls, everybody hits lows, but it's how you handle those lows that's gonna make you kick on again. But you try to help everyone. I was the same constantly trying to help everyone, but the ones you help end up fucking you over anyway. And when your shit hits the fan, nobody's there to be seen. I just feel like I choose all the wrong fucking people to help. I feel like I choose all the rotten ones to help. Yeah, but you'll get good karma for helping anyway. No matter if it comes back in front of you in the ass. Can I have something? Hello. Still waiting for it. Honestly, I don't regret. I have no regrets. I feel like sometimes if you live with those regrets, that's what is more damaging than the actual scenario that's happened. I feel like everything's a lesson to me and I just feel like God only gives you the toughest things, the strongest people, the toughest things to go through. Of course, but anybody that's come through the garage scene or the hip hop scene would have done anything for half the career that you guys have had. Do you know what I mean? He's just all doing it. That's why I don't complain. Yeah, you've got to look at the positives. I've seen half of the garage scenes that are so sick and they haven't had the success that So Solid has. And I can only give thanks to that. I have been in those positions with my boys from So Solid that we made a life for ourselves and we were able to do that off the back of our talent. A talent I didn't even flip in though I had. I wanted to be a better architect. Do you know what I mean? It's only because I got screwed over in school that I didn't even think about a career. I just needed to survive. I had a baby at 17 a year after leaving school. I was like, I'm in survival mode. Like I grew up real quick. And that growing up is who's made me today. So what's made me today? And luckily for me, I had a bunch of talented people that scooped me up in the right time and gave me a career. In 2010, you just got back together? 2010, we got back together. We'd done our very first tour ever, which was sick. I don't know how many people are there, but it was at the O2. They sold out? Sold out like three times over. We had to put on a second date that I didn't go to. Why? There was some disagreements. And I'm my own boss. Boss later getting the better of you. I am the fucking boss of myself. So then disagreements. I pull away. I do run my life and everything about me on emotion. And sometimes that's dangerous. And sometimes it's not. But I'm not going to have anyone talk disrespectfully or treat me like shit, you know what I mean? But then I also, it hurts when someone does. So I just run the other way. Rather than confront it sometimes when it's someone I really love. I'll have your argument though. I'm not scared to have the argument, but I'll get the other way and get away from it and pull myself away, even if it means it will affect my career. Do you miss it? Do I miss so solid? I miss so solid. The fun that we had. I do miss it. But luckily for me, I've been able to continue as Lisa Mafia. She's obviously looking back. It's the madness that you miss as well. Even though it's the dramas. There's a part of you something inside you think, fuck me, I miss the madness. I don't drink or I'm not taking drugs anymore. But every day I think, oh, I fucking miss. Just out one day of that madness. Because what happens is it's an escape. It's not being selfish for a day or not giving a fuck. So when you start getting responsibilities, when you start doing well for yourself, the responsibilities and the pressure that come on you is unbelievable. And I've never tasted this. I was saying earlier that this is all you're doing. Yeah, but it's like you're famous, James. Like what you're going through. It must be scary. It's only beginning because I know what I'm going to take. What you want to do. Yeah, I know exactly where I'm going to go. So you're lucky you knew you know the steps that you're taking. I didn't even realise. You were threw right into a limelight. I've took baby steps and baby steps to grow and grow. So I'm starting to handle it. But every time you level up, man, fuck me, man. The shit that comes with that is I'm only interviewing people. Listen, I tell you what, yeah. I've only experienced a few times, but someone trying to abuse me because I am famous. Like I've only had that a very few times. And a lot of the people, the few times I have been through that, they're people that I fucking know. They know a lot more about me and they know how to hurt me. Do you know what I mean? And that's from inside. That's from the inside. I can't imagine if I've been offered to anyone out there what they might have fucking tried to do on the success journey that I've been on, you know what I mean? Luckily, I've been nice to people, you know? That's the only thing you can be. But sometimes if you've got that boss-led mentality, if you've got that sometimes, listen, you've been surrounded by alpha males your whole life. So it can be difficult what you think. Who are you fucking testing? Do you know what though? I feel like because of how big I was in the 90s, one thing I'm so fucking glad that we didn't have was internet. It weren't part of our career because do you imagine how many things we've been up to, the success things and the bad things, what people might have been saying to us on social media? Like we didn't have that. You only saw us in your magazine or on your TV screen. Do you know what I mean? We came on that day where now when you're famous, they can one click at a button, they're with you. Yeah, everybody's got an app on you, yeah, the bastards. Yeah, it's quick like that. I've experienced it recently, I went through something with someone, a friend that I was helping out. And as soon as she said one bad word, it got taken up by the blogs and the blogs then spiraled it out of control. They had, I think they had like 180,000 followers and within 10 minutes of her saying that, I was getting caught up, I was getting caught up in a hall. I was getting, I was like, not that I never fucked because luckily these people weren't anything to do with me. They don't know anything about me. There was a younger market, the blogs, they're all kids, they're just their keyboard warrior and they didn't know nothing about me or they weren't even flipping by my records. So I was laughing at it, but I was like after 24 hours of abuse, it stopped and I was like, for fuck's sake, 20 something years in the industry and I'm only worth 24 hours of abuse, she can't, you know what I mean? How did you handle that, how did you handle that? I just, I was cracking up, I thought it was hilarious, but I can only, it didn't make me emotional on the other side as well because I just kept thinking, shit, if this was the 23-year-old me when I started out and I was huge and this happened to me, I probably could have killed myself. Yeah, immediate, immediate. And that's because it never stopped for 24 hours and I can laugh because like I said, I'm grown, I'm tough, I've been through shit worse than flipping keyboard warriors. It doesn't bother me. And the girl that was doing it, I was more heartbroken that she did that to me, to be honest, because I had little light, little love version of my little sister, but then on the other side of things like the abuse I was getting, I was like, nah, if I was 23, I would have topped myself because it just didn't stop. And it was all these strangers that have this opinion about you. Yeah, and you feel the energy from it. Look, Carol, you're fucked. Yeah, it's just- I think she's actually a year past today. Is a year already? Yeah, a year past now. So as social media is playing a massive effect on people's mindsets, I'm actually gonna do six weeks without it. Yeah, are you? Yeah, cleanse. Yeah, just to recharge, cleanse. Oh, I'm telling you, I let my assistant do it. Because I've been free years straight now. So we do all our shit ourselves and it's, I always answer people back as well. You can't help it, innit? Yeah, just be nice, man. That's because you're hot, you're hot. I'm soft as shit. I'm the same as well. I'm the same as well. But then listen, man, I can fucking flip that sweatshirt. People may see you just done an interview or this and that, but I've got that fucking sweatshirt. But this is the thing. You have to be careful of that, James, because we all have that in our heart. I'm not having it. Like, you can't get to me. And if you think you're gonna get to me, I'm gonna end up telling you about yourself so that you don't do it to someone else. And at the end I'll say, yeah, and you'll think fucking twice about starting on the girl and getting one girl. Do you know what I mean? I'm more like that, but it makes me emotional because, as I said, for 24 hours I was abused and had I been that 23 year old girl at the very beginning, that would have been a whole different story. When you look at everybody's competing against each other, everybody's getting filters even. When I'm doing a story sometimes I'll put a filter on and I'm thinking, what the fuck? Filters, I love a filter. I'm getting all this shit. I need a filter. You've seen your young girls all competing and looking at, you've got a school as well and everybody's taught to wear uniforms. Everybody dresses the same. Now people's got older. Condition to think everybody should be dressing the same. So everybody's using the filters. The most beautiful girls on the planet have all got filters. Don't think they're good enough. I think one of the Kardashians put a filter and girls were fucking suicidal over it. Just looking at her, thinking that everybody sees the world differently but we're conditioned now to compete. I'm glad, I'm really glad I came. I'm really glad I'm all this shit. Because I missed that. I still know how to hustle on my own without social media. I know how to make my money to get the attention without social media. I know that I'm okay without social media and a lot of the girls today, I guess they just don't know that and that's sad, man. Your daughter was on 21 Seconds at the very start of the video, yeah. Yeah, my baby girl, yeah. That's amazing. She still gets a roy. Mama got you paid. Obviously, it's still popping that song. It's still popular so you get your roy because you're still getting across from that. Every six months, yeah. Every six months, that clockwork. Ting-ting. Yeah, people are fun like TV and ads and shit people using it, singing it. The funny thing is that, like I said, I was lucky enough to have a solo career and even after my solo career, I had other records like Bad Goat Night and Don't Stop the Music. There's lots of different records that I've done after Lisa Matthew's solo career, so solid career, and then I've had like a third wave of music. So, and it all pays. And that's sometimes, when you hit rock bottom, you get that two, three grand and you're like, hell, yeah. Yeah. Helps on it. Yeah, I mean, you get one big check, like 10 grand and then you get one little check, three grand and you're like, whoo, what can I do with this? Would you ever do like a comeback tour 25th anniversary in the next few years? I don't know if I would. I don't know. Put yourself through it all again. I don't know, man. I think you would. I don't know. I feel like it. You know, the worst thing is, is that I've cut like a lot of deals for a solo career tonight. You know, just... Why are you so loyal to it? Because there's more. There's a few in solo career that I don't agree with, but they're my childhood friends. I love them. Yeah, but I don't think they would mind if you were getting across elsewhere. Just listen, listen, I've actually done that. I've stepped away and done my own thing, but I still have my loyalty to So Solid because that made me, you know, So Solid and all them people and all the whole movement and everyone's talent, that made Lisa Mafia. I wouldn't be Lisa Mafia without that. Yeah, you're solid, man. I know you're big on the cancer front and I know your mum get diagnosed with cancer and that really affected you. How was that? And through all that, when you were just a few years ago... So 2010, that's when my mum first got cancer and I was doing music and it was a little bit like going down again. I think, you know, we got paid from 10 grand for 10 minutes on the stage to a grand to 10 minutes on the stage, you know what I mean? So you could tell the difference. People still say that's a lot of money, 10 minutes of work, but that was how different things was for me in 2010 and I opened House of Mafia, which was at the time a clothing brand. That was an umbrella for upcoming clothing brands, Streetwear brands. I've been a humanitarian again. I wanted to not do anything on my own, so I opened up an umbrella, the House of Mafia umbrella, gonna bring everyone through and it was going really well. I was dressing people for red carpets and all sorts of things was going on and mum got cancer. And that was around the same time that So Solid were deciding to do a comeback single and my heart was all over the place. I was desperate to be backing music and hype again. House of Mafia was going really well. Mum then got cancer and I just said, fuck it, I don't want nothing to do with anything. And I just hid away and took my mum to hospital every day. And unfortunately, my mum is a terminal cancer and she's still going through it now. Yeah, it's difficult, but fair plays and all, you've been spoke out very big, I don't think you're on loose women. What are you doing if you want, you just have your tits out and that. What was it? Sorry, every time I say my mum's name, I don't know what happens. So I done the full monthy, got my tits out for the boys, did a tits out for them. I got my tits out for the t-rains! Shit, then! When was that, after you used done it at? Oh yeah, I got great tits, all right. So I got my tits out for raising awareness for a cancer. So yeah, that was for mum as well. I've done it, I mean, every year since my mum's had cancer, I've been one to get into charities for that. But that's where you'll get that fighting spirit. You know, mum, she's clearly a fighter. I lost my dad to leukemia and he was in remission and he'd get a phone call that you've got three months left. Sorry, man. Part of you always thinks that they'll survive and then when you see them just keep deteriorating and deteriorating and you think, fuck. Well, my mum, every time it's come back, they've always said like, she's got three months, she's got six months. And she's fought it time and time again. It's like, sorry. That's okay, man. And she's such a fighter, you know. And if you're stuck, I think this is the, sorry. That's okay, I think I think. Right, so yeah, no, it's the third time. It's the third time it's come back from my mum and every time it comes back, you just don't know, do you? Yeah, it's difficult, but again, that's where you'll get that fighting spirit. And you've just got to keep kicking on and she's still here and you've just always got to be there. That's where you'll probably, that's where you get that. Yeah, it is. Never quit, never die mentality. My mum was up, it's just her, you know. And then my dad went around and started, I used to watch, I mean, she's weird as well. My mum's weird as hell. Cause she's got issues as well. And I always say that sometimes you don't realise how much childhood trauma dictates your life, you know. And as much as you sit there and think, like, you've got this anxiety and you say, oh, it's because of the problems you're having now. Usually it's from childhood trauma. And my mum's been through some damn things. And I think to myself, shit, she's full cancer since 2010. Like, that is nuts. Like, she's got to be stronger than what sometimes she seems, you know. And that's amazing. And that does give me strength. Of course. Sometimes we take life for granted as well. Sometimes we're always wanting more. Sometimes it's good to just slow down and go, wait a minute, we've got our health and we see other people struggling and life isn't that bad. I like, I'm always, I'm constantly trying to improve that. Every time I try and level up, I try and get more success. You need to go through more barriers, more pain, more sacrifices. But sometimes we've already got everything that we need. Yeah, you just got to know, you got to look at it yourself and go, shit, I've got my mum still. And that sometimes makes me angry that I feel like I've been living, waiting for her to die sometimes, you know. That's hurt and makes me very angry sometimes. I don't know, it makes me just so angry that you go through so many things in life. You go through so many things in life and it always treats the nicest ones bad, you know. So it does make me angry sometimes. And some things, sorry. Sorry, it's so tough to do what I've been thinking about the whole time. But again, she would be proud of you for what you've achieved from where you've came from to standing on your own two feet and working two jobs. And that's for anybody watching, like, animal plenty girls out there who've just had their kid and have just accepted. They're just living to die basically. They've accepted that life, like, you've not. That's the difficult thing, it's easy to not care, it's easy to just give up life because there becomes no responsibilities and you're constantly wanting to protect your family and be there. You still need to make income, you still need to go and push yourself to these boundaries. Like, even things on the newspaper, the news, that's enough to put anybody back in their shell. Nah. Do you know what I mean? I always feel that you see negative situations to your benefit, man. Like, it's not nice when you're going through it. Sure doesn't feel like you're gonna come through it sometimes, but you've got to use that to give you so much more power. Never allow, because once you have allowed a bad situation to take over and stop you from doing this one, they've won, whoever the person is won, how you feel about it, everything that's against you, you have to come against it and say, I'm gonna use this to make me stronger. Yeah, exactly. And that's all you can do, like, we're all struggling life, we all have lost, we all have pain, but it's how we make it affect us, how do we react to it? Do we make it fuel us to kick on again? Because sure, it's five years, time, 10 years, time, there's gonna be more shit, there's gonna be more shit. Obviously, you just think, fuck me again. You just think, it's always happened to me. Yeah, but we kind of think it's only us, but it's everybody battles that. You know what though? Sometimes what you're going through, it's just meant for you. How are you handling life now? I'm good. I'm actually better than I've felt ever in my life at this point. I feel like this pandemic has changed me dramatically because I've been forced again to change roles. I've been forced again to strip back and say, right, this is what I'm doing, this is what I'm gonna have to do, this is, I've just refused to quit, you know? Yeah, fucked up. Yeah, I just refused, I refused, I refused because I feel like everyone that's done me wrong, they've won, and I ain't allowed nobody from my past to win because I never done shit to them for the things they did to me, so I'm about to win out here. It's funny though that when you do win, that is the people, some people are closest to you that hate it, and that's what fries me a lot. We receive thousands and thousands of messages per week. I thrive on the negatives, the 100 to 100 negatives. Do you get negative reviews? Yeah, and I just think fuck it because I think, why is people so much? I've been there born at only fucking, I know a few people. They're so fucking bored. Yeah. To be honest, it's the negative fuckers. It's the negative fuckers that will be there when you're down. It's not gonna be the ones thinking, oh, poor Chinese, poor Layser. It's not them, it's always gonna be the ones that have a negative opinion, and even if they are mates, they are gonna be the ones there going, well, do you know what, mate? James, I didn't think he was gonna work. Like, fuck you, mate. I'm down, don't kick me. That's the funny thing in life. Everybody speaks out about mental health. It's always, oh, look out for mental health. I'm here if you need me. You can slip into my DMs if you want to speak to somebody, but if you're not feeling great, if you feel like shit, everybody will give you support, and they will try and help you, but as soon as you start so seeding and becoming better than them and bigger than them, whatever it is, they fucking hate you for it. Do you know what I mean? Why not support people when they're flying high? It doesn't actually mean you're all right when you're flying high. Yeah. If not, you get more fucking problems. Of course you do. More money, more hormones. That's the song, mate. It's like Biggie says it, do you know what I mean? But what I'm trying to do is juggle it and try to understand that this is all fucking new to me. Like, I know exactly where I'm going. I know how hard I'm working. Only a few people and I love it, and I believe I'm the best at it. I believe what I do is fucking next level, and it's not a blow-move on Trump, but I believe that. Do you get it? Yeah, you got to blow that, Trump, mate. Why should I dump myself down to make other people feel at ease? Why should I bring me down levels to make you feel better? Exactly. It's just because when you start doing well for yourself, I say it all the time, but you start shining a light near missed opportunities that why can't I do it, why can't I achieve? But if you've got to be relentless, you've got to be consistent to keep pushing the boundaries consistently, to keep levelling up with success. Just you get more boundaries, you get more obstacles coming your way, and it's the only person that can fail as yourself. It's how far you want to go. I don't give a fuck with you and your early 20s, 30s, 70s, 80s. You can keep hustling, you can keep grinding, you can keep raising the bar. Not that I want to be Madonna. I'm skinning out in my later hard at 50. But still Madonna, I'm waiting for doing it. Yeah, I feel clear about it. I think she's in the fucking 60s now, you know what? Yeah, there you go. I'm sure that's garage music is going to go on that long. I'm worried it'll be about 90, and they'll still be on the stage like 21 seconds. What about going forward for a future? Lisa, what's your plans? So I managed to start business again. House of Mafia is now not clothing, it's interior design. And I've been doing it for seven years. Over the last seven years, I've been doing it for friends that are property developers, and they've just given me the opportunity to go and dress this place for us, and they give me a few grand here. And I just enjoy it. That's my creative side, that it has to be fulfilled. I have to do something in the creative sort of, whether it's music, whether it's design, whether it's clothing, it has to be something creative. And House of Mafia is really doing well again. So I've just taken on properties for massive establishments. So I'll be doing that for whenever, how long this bloody pandemic goes on for. I've got a shop down in a salon, hair salon, hair and beauty salon in Margate. That's closed at the moment, but that'll be open again. So I'll be focusing on business until I can get back on stage. And I think once I go, I'm in a DJ now, so I say now I have been for two years. So I think when I go back out, I may go back out as a DJ and musician. I'm considering albums and stuff like that, but it's so demanding, James. Like once you go in with music, as soon as you put a record out, if it's successful, that's you, you're locked in or I've been locked in for 21 years off of three albums, three different EP and two albums. And that took 21 years. And it's still going like, do I want to do two? Why is it getting like, literally singing from a grave? Like I don't know if I want to do that. And it's, and I feel like, I feel like there's other things I need to do now. But do it makes you happy. I know you've spoken about going back to uni and finishing your nursing degree, which is another trophy you can have up in your world that you've achieved something else. And they're still in the pipeline. I believe you probably will go and finish it. The stylist thing, you just got a court case over your head, you got acquitted for? Yeah. How was that? Again, that's a friend that I helped. It's just a fucking mess, but you know what? I learned a lot out of that. And like I said, that was the same case I was talking about where I was abused for 24 hours and it just disappeared. I was like, shit, if I was 23 years old, I could have killed myself in that 24 hours just off the back of someone saying something on social media for the blogs to then pick it up, for it to blow out control and for everybody to now know this story. They don't even know if it's true or not. And even if it was true or not, they could have killed someone in that process because 24 hours of abuse was awful. But I found it fucking funny because as I said, I could see the people, none of my own people were getting at me. They were like, they were calling her names and calling her things. And I was like, no, watch the TV. It's like my little sis. It's got out and she's young, leave her. And it, like I said, in that 24 hours, I could have taught myself and that has now led me to want to do something about that and social media, the way they report, the way they people handle things on social media, things you put out, the messages you put out, got to be mindful of what you're doing. And I'm thinking of starting some sort of campaign or something for online bullying or something like that. Yeah, I think that's a good thing. But again, people are weakest fuck. That's the people, they're the weaklings, they're the guys, certainly not wrong. But it's hard to fit. You know what, like I said, I was cracking up being called every racist name under the sun, called all these things. I'm thinking, none of you actually know me. You're not even into garage music. Like when I looked into a few of them, they were calling me like a black bitch and you eight and all that. I looked into their profiles and they were following like, no one from the garage scene, no one from the house scene. They were following like all the new kids, they looked about 22, 23, their selves. So, you know, it makes you reflect. If it looks like someone that was my age or from my hood, I would have been gutted that they're saying these things about me. But it was because they weren't from my world that I was able to overlook it and being, you know, a bit more clued up, you know, it doesn't really bother me, sticks and stones or whatever, and it doesn't matter. But had I been the same person as the keyboard warrior that was doing that, I would have definitely topped myself. It just fucking shows you, though, that words do sting sometimes, that we're all kind of vulnerable to word social media, but again, it's just men, grown men, sitting in their thong, just eating big packets of fucking Skittles are just weird. Yeah, do you know, like I get, I'm not, James, I know you don't want to hear this year, but I get dick pics and it's... I'm sorry, I'm still sending them. James, please stop saying we did it. No, seriously, it's like a violation. Like, when you open that and it's a dick in it, you're like, really? Like, really? Like, are you taking them here? And that's my feelings. But again, it's like, not as, there's not as out there. I get messages from people. You must get dick pics. I get dick pics. I get probably get more dick pics than you get pics. But I get messages from people to say, your stuff's amazing. Like, we get thousands of, so it's hard to see everyone, but then they might, so if I'm in my request or something, I can only see the messages for that, that I don't mind no more ever. That's right, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But then you'll get your stuff's amazing to then your fucking scumbag, I'm gonna kill you and you're thinking, what? What? But you know what, they're not even, they don't even know you or anything. They're just keyboard workers. That's what people are gonna remember out there. They're fucking pussy's man. They're people that are either not mentally well or they're just challenged. They want attention. They want to talk. They don't know how to talk because I bet you if you sat there and took time out and said, look, why are you saying these things, mate? That wasn't matter. Like, do you want a job or something? Like, what's going on? You'll probably get a freeze and start crying or something, do you know what I mean? Because they're nutters. They're weirdos. Because people see you doing well. They think you're free from. They want to get you. Yeah, they want to try and break you down. So we'll say they're weakest and sick as shit. Or it's like, you know what, sometimes it's someone that's a bit closer to you. You want to, I want to be surprised if it's someone you actually know and they want to get at you so they go and make a fake profile. You do get used to it though. You do, of course you do. But I'm picking someone new into it and strong to it. I just keep kicking on. And I think, see, when I, every time I level up, I think about the haters. I think, fucking yes. Go on, be a level prick. But they're like, please, what are they going to say to me this time? If they didn't fucking say it, you'd be like, ah, that might have been a shit one. I'm going to have to do another one. You're on the Jonathan Ross show. I watched that and I've heard about, he seemed as if he was picking you out about Waff's so solid crew it wasn't. No, do you know what? We've done it from Russia. I was mentally prepared to get him because he was renowned for getting people on his show taking the piss out of him. And I was young, fiery, so suddenly we're going through a bag of shit and I had just got my solo career. And as I said, I was on that circuit. So I had done Buzzcocks, I had done Jonathan Ross, I had done this morning. I was on every show you could think possible. So I kept thinking as soon as I got to Jonathan Ross I was like, don't have it. Whatever he says come at him, whatever. So I was uptight. So when he was trying to talk to me, I was like being ignorant. So I think he must have felt so uncomfortable. I regret it because I wanted to say, Jonathan Ross, I really love you. But instead I was like- You're taking the piss out of your shoes. Yeah, I was taking the piss out of his shoes and I was like giving him short answers because I didn't want to get into it too much in case he started on me. And there was a lot of stigma around so solid. So I had that pressure. I was taking on 30 odd boys' troubles on that stage on a massive platform like Jonathan Ross, you know what I mean? Like, and I'm an over-thinker for this interview I've been thinking about it for about a month. Like, what am I gonna say? What if he asked this and it's like, oh, I phrase it in so many different ways to mentally prepare myself because I'm a person I'd like to know, you know? So with Jonathan Ross I think I'm making him a little bit uncomfortable. Bless him. But that's a mega show as well, like the viewers that they get, even back then you're talking 10, 15 million viewers. That's why I'm just gonna enhance your career. So going through all that then, a life back at rollercoaster, you're still kicking on, which is good to see. You're still happy. Listen, we're always gonna battle. We're always gonna do it. Do you think you could go down the solo route again? Do it all again? Yeah, not so solid, true, but a solo because we're not trying to release something I know you're writing films as well, was that correct? Yeah, so I've been working with, I've been really fortunate, James. I've been really fortunate to meet some incredible people. I've had a good assistant from so young Sam. He's got my back that way. He's a good guy. And he would do all of the back work. Sam is just my backbone, you know, in all my projects. And I've been fortunate to just meet people and I'm not one to go, no, I can't do that. If somebody says, can you film a film? Yes. Can you write a script? Yes, because I've been, you know, forced into being a musician. It was Demlock's dream to be musicians. It was my lucky star to be a musician. And I had to self-teach myself to be a musician. I didn't get to have that whole talent thing and it came from young. It was there, but I just didn't exhaust it. I didn't know how. So, for teaching myself that and I became someone, I think I can teach myself into anything. Of course, you've got to believe, but you've got that self-belief. So I wouldn't say it was your lucky stars. Remember, you've took the chances to do that. You've put yourself on the front line to do that. You have always took the risk. And that's where you'll get the present and the reward is when you jump through and take the risk. Sometimes for the hindricks. Of course it is, but... The glory in that is always at the other side of fear. You've always took chances. You've always took risks. And we're going to have a second half in our life, the both of us. I'm just taking more risks, but it's fucking... I think now I can confidently know what I can and can't do. Like, nowadays I won't just say yes. Like, I used to say yes because I felt bad to say no, but now I more think about if it's going to benefit me. So that's why some people just hate me now because now I just won't say yes. Like, I'm not going to just go with it. Is there anybody watching that's maybe been getting trolled at? What advice would you give for them? In my career, in what I've done, don't do it. No, you're joking. I just think, like, make sure that your team, like, your circle's right because sometimes you think your circle's right and then not, like, your nearest and dearest. Sometimes I want you to succeed. So it's best that you choose the right team and keep it very small and know who you're doing with and try and do as much on your own. Like, just have confidence. Like, learn to have confidence in yourself because doing it sometimes is better on your own. Yeah, do you think it'd be easier to make it with your song twit once it's getting released now than it would be twit years ago with social media? Ah, 21 seconds is a legend. I think that could make it any year. Timeless. Yeah, timeless. Definitely. I mean, it's still playing. We still get a rotting from that show. How do you feel with no fans and stuff that you miss in it? Because I know you can still tour with you and Romeo. So what, since the pandemic? Yeah. Oh, mate. I think, like, social... I didn't realise how much my life is about socialising. As much as I'm a shy person, as much as I grew up, like, like that, I've learnt to love it and it helps me be a more confident person by being thrown into it and being on the stage of a bunch of strangers, drunk bunch of strangers that can say heckle you or anything and you please them, you see them jumping and laughing and they want to kiss you and take a picture. That shit is... That shit will make you thrive. That shit will make you strong. And I miss that. I miss being on the stage and it's the gig I got. It's the work I got. It's the work I've hustled. I love that. I love that in any business. But in doing it when you're on the stage, when there's so many other artists in your category, in your lane, in your genre, all the garage girls, and I've been chosen to go on that stage a thousand times. I love that. That makes you thrive. It was like playing at festivals with So Solid Crew. I didn't get to really do it, So Solid. It doesn't do a thing in that shit. Yeah, I didn't get to really do it. I'm more recently booked So Solid to do festivals nowadays. Not all of them, but a lot of them... You know, I am the agent for So Solid as well. Is it 2010 as the first time he's done a tour? Sorry? Was 2010 the first time he's done a tour? Was it 2010 or 2013? Was it 2010? I don't know. I can't remember. I don't remember if it was 2010 or 2013. But yeah, that was the very first tour we had ever done. No, no, I'm lying. We did a tour with Christine Aguilera all over Europe. We done a tour with John Lashanti, but that was Romeo's tour. And then we done the fight. I done the... See, this is the difference. I had done it. Like, I got to do all three tours. I've done the Oxan and Trino tour, Five Nights Stand. I think it was called MTV. I've done the John Lashanti tour with Romeo on his solo career because I was on some of his records. And then the So Solid tour, we had done the whole of Europe with Christine Aguilera. Who was she? That was fucking sick. What was that? Yeah, that was sick. That was so good. We did... We got to meet her... I got to meet her a couple of times on tour, but it was very brief. Like, they were huge. I mean, we paid for that. Like, when you're on tour as a support act, you pay a contribution to that tour to be part of it. They pick you, but we have to pay our contribution to be on that tour. So it was sick. Like, we got... That's where we got most of, like, a European exposure from. What other kind of people did you meet? We have a starstruck. Oh, my God, Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown at the Versace Hotel in Miami on a... What's that? Something drive? What's it called? The Royal Deal? No, no, no, no, no. South Beach, something, something. I can't remember the South Beach somewhere. I don't know, in Miami, the main strip. That was amazing. Trying to peep through old Nokia camera phone, peeping through the track cake pictures. She caught me. She said, hey, come over. I was like... That was amazing. Dynamos at the Mobos. Amazing. Duran Duran, I've done a massive shooting with Duran Duran for Vogue, British Vogue with Maritostino, a top, top, top photographer. That was pretty amazing, because I grew up on Duran Duran because of my... I had my white side and my black side. I listened to Bob Marley on one side and Marvin Gaye, and then I was listening to Duran Duran and Pitch Up Boys on the other side. Brooke, do you speak about your career as well? You've got a big grin in your face so you can see how much I actually love it. Yeah. I've learned to... I... Things like this... Honestly, this interview has re-accurated me with my career memories. And when you bring them up, it does make me smile, because there are so many horrible things that happened during my career. But so many amazing things that I... One thing you can't ever take away from me is my memories of what I saw through my eyes, you know? And that just makes me happy. Yeah, that's the best thing. Old external shit doesn't mean fuck all that. We crave the money because of what we think, the attention. When you break that down and you actually start getting it, you start realising that doesn't fulfil me. It's the memories that last. It's the memories that you're sitting there and mentioning that to your eyes. Oh, you get a realisation that, fuck me, I've actually had a great life, even though you went through a misery and torment. But so has everybody else that haven't experienced the good stuff that you've experienced. People just go through a torment and misery and don't have any good. And don't have the good to go with it. I sometimes now I've started to sit back and try to remember that shit when I'm down, because that will pull you through, because as I'm smiling now and it brings me joy and the memories start coming back and you're like, oh, yeah, that was so sick. That's what you need to do when you're down. And that's what I'm trying to do now in life, in general, because it keeps you going. Absolutely, the thing you can do is keep you going. You just got to keep kicking on. What do you think now, looking back at your career and what you've done in the music industry? I think, wow, Leesh, you did that. Like, whoa. Coming from Brexton. From Brixton, Laugh for Junction. From having nothing and having nothing again for so many times, you know, through my career. It's not a never promised music industry. It goes up, down, it's like a rollercoaster. It's right up, right down, right up. You know, I went from being signed for a quarter of a million to having a thousand pounds in my bank. Like, on one show every weekend to having another 70 grand to having absolutely nothing. Did you waste a lot of money, Leesh? Oh, yeah, the first time round. Woo! I had four cars on my drive, but I did have a property. And lucky, that's one thing that even though I didn't have anyone around me that had a stable job, that had been to university and secured a career, that put money into trust funds for their children for when they're 18 and they want their first car, I didn't have anyone, I did that myself. And I bought my first house with my first deal money and I bought my second house and my third house and luckily I had all of those things to back me up when shit hit the van and I had nothing because as much as I had a thousand pounds in my bank account, I had property to fall back on. And that's what's helped me today is that I still got that money to fall back on and I still got properties to fall back on, luckily, because had I not had that, I would have hit the van, I would have hit the bottle. I would have hit the bottle. I probably would have took drugs as well, just mash up on drugs because when you go down, you go down, you feel like nothing and no one and no one cares about you. You remember everyone that's been horrible to you, you remember all the things you ain't got anymore and that shit can tear you apart, so you're being famous as well. Because you want to escape, don't you? Yeah, and as well, when you go down in a normal world, if you run out of money, just go and get a better job, don't you, right? But when you've been famous, you feel like you can't do normal because working in a normal shop, for your ego, it's worse than actually having no money. That's what you tell yourself, right? And when I went down the first time, I was like, shit, I might as well go and stack some shells in Tesco's but there's something that's just, you'd rather suffer without money than say, let me go and get a regular job because your fame is still there and the money runs out but the fame stays there for, it stays there the whole time and people will recognise you, so you're like, after I'm not gonna work in- You're fucked up, Ho-Jay. I'd rather sit here eating beans on toast, yeah? Because your ego won't allow you and yet your pocket is saying, hello. But it's fucked up, Ho-Jay attention outside noise can affect your mental, yeah? Lisa, it's been phenomenal having you on today. Would you like to finish up on anything? Just whoever's out there that needs to hear it, just keep going because it never, nothing bad ever lasts. Yeah, Lisa, absolute warrior. Can't wait to see what you do for the rest. Thank you so much. And thanks for coming on today. Thank you. God bless. 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