 Hello, everybody. This is Anne Jekyll from New Mexico Epscore. It's just noon on the dot, so I'm going to give folks a minute to join as our attendee count is going up. So stay tuned for about 30 seconds and we will start our webinar. You shouldn't be clacking. No, you're not. Okay. Well, we're one minute past the hour, so we'll go ahead and get started and others can join us as we go along. Again, my name is Anne Jekyll. I'm the Associate Director of New Mexico Epscore. And I'd like to welcome you to our second New Mexico Smart Grid Center webinar. Today we'll be talking about network DC microgrids with Gary Opadol from Ameri Technologies, and I will introduce him in a second, but I wanted to remind you the purpose of these webinars, which is to present research and promote collaboration across our project. And in addition, we'll provide a venue for outside presenters working on subjects related to microgrids and other topics of interest to Mexico Smart Grid Center team members to present. So that's what we'll hear about today. We will host these webinars the fourth Friday of every month at noon. So please mark your calendars. And if you have ideas of presenters you would like to hear from or would like to present yourself, please contact me. You can find my information on our website nmepscore.org pretty readily. I've deployed a poll here that is asking how you would like to hear about these webinars. We're fine tuning our process to get the word out to you all and to get you to join. So please take a minute to fill out this poll you look somewhere on your screen zoom pops it up and I'll end it in a second. And one item of webinar housekeeping. We have a question and answer box. And this is where you can communicate with us and ask questions of Gary as he's presenting and we will moderate a Q&A so please contact us that way. One reminder is the our next webinar which will be on November 22 at noon and we will have the New Mexico National Laboratories presenting so Arthur Byron's from Los Alamos National Laboratory will be presenting on protection of inverter interface microgrids and from Sandia National Laboratories will be presenting on a recently completed project on distribution voltage regulation provided by multiple distributed energy resource control strategies both topics that are very relevant to our project research areas. So please join us and mark your calendar now for that. So with that I would like to introduce Gary Opadol from Ameri Technologies. Gary has 30 years of entrepreneurial leadership and technical management experience and has started many successful companies. Also serving as the director of economic development at the city of Albuquerque. He speaks the language of many in our project as he's an electrical engineer by degree, and he currently holds a position of vice president of emerging technologies at Ameri, or a subsidiary called Ameri Technologies. So Ameri for those of you that don't know is the company that owns New Mexico Gas Company, but it is primarily an electric utility and Ameri Technologies is pursuing multiple demonstrations of networked DC microgrids. The first project is at Kirtland Air Force Base and it's connected to all of the testing infrastructure at Sandia National Laboratories, and it is absolutely tremendous what he and Ameri Technologies have been able to do in a very short period of time. Gary and I have had some conversations about ways that our researchers can collaborate with him to promote New Mexico as the place to pursue microgrid research. So with that I will cede control of the interface to Gary and turn it over to him and his presentation. I'm going to assume that you can hear me and welcome. And as Ann said, it is my desire that New Mexico become the center of the universe with respect to advanced microgrids or distributed energy systems, which we would prefer, but most people understand what microgrids are. I am now employed by utility and so I will make sure that we do our safety briefing first. Usually, if you are out at the site and I do encourage everyone to come out and see what we've done there. There's nothing like a tour I'm going to try to describe something that is very difficult to understand unless you're actually sitting in it and you can watch energy being moved around from place to place. But in this in that safety briefing, I would tell you as we pull panels and look in things don't point at things with your fingers and then and follow the instructions of your tour guide and and to be safe around electricity and energy. For this purpose, I'll just say, I hope that no one is driving and will be distracted or operating any heavy equipment. And if I put you to sleep hopefully there's nothing in front of you on your head. It's the desk. So I show this is my kind of my street credit slide but I show it only because I want to tell you that my dad brought me here to Albuquerque when he was the head of the Defense Nuclear Agency. And that's two underground nuclear shots for the United States up at the mercury test site. And I really believed that we would all be doing the George Jetson thing flying around in our flying cars and having robots 20 hour week work weeks, and that we would have abundant nuclear power. That's what I grew up in that was the paradigm. And, but he would say that the reason why that didn't happen was because we did not standardize properly. And so you'll, you'll see standardization and getting a building block approach, and then fractalizing is a huge part of of what we do. The other things to note on here is other than I'm genetically unemployable with this large list is that I grew up at Intel. After Air Force and electrical engineering degree and so that forms my model toward a meshed network and a network of network and nodes type of approach. So, and I've had some other experiences I did start up a medical company just because my incident that happened with my mother that is thriving here in New Mexico. And then the city of Albuquerque is interesting in that that's how I actually met the folks from a mirror as they were buying the new Mexico gas company. And it taught me a lot about how to get things done in large bureaucracies and of course the regulatory risks are the largest risks we have in trying to implement micro grids. I'll move forward just to let you know that America, just a little bit of a background. They're a $30 billion and asset company utility hold co and six countries so Canada, the United States and four Caribbean countries. And this is when you get to the why of why we were formed to start this business. You can see that on the East Coast here. So America is a, like I said a $30 billion utility hold co America technologies is a an LLC with one member America, but it is a skunk works it is meant to be separate from America so that we can move quickly and and really look at disruptions in the utility space, but you can see that along the East Coast is most of their holdings and in the Caribbean islands. So they're very interested in things that weren't going to blow down. They're also very interested in safety and and and trying to rebuild things easily and safely and so that's a large part of the impetus of forming mirror technologies was to think about how could we build things that would be safe to either direct Barry or to even lay on the ground and and and how could we move things forward given the trends in the utility world and that was our three year charter. When we were formed a year and a half ago. They did not expect the amount of progress we've made and they since we had an initial tranche of money. A couple of weeks ago they've since put in more money because of our success. But let's get to the problem. Renewable penetration is not progressing at the scalar pace necessary, even for our renewable portfolio standards that that we in New Mexico witnessed our governor signed earlier this year. In addition to that, we have a paradigm where resilience and readiness for our military. And any critical site is really this the current strategy is diesel generators. And we know that that's not going to be the right approach long term and if we could figure out how to come to a point where you're not making a choice between resilience and renewables but actually you see them as the same thing. So that would be the goal. Additionally, the technology is piecemeal we just came back from solar power international a couple weeks ago, you know 19,000 people talking about renewables and micro grids and all kinds of different things. But you have the 5000 isle which is solar and the 4000 which is wind and 3000 which is controls. There's no systems approach we saw that and then the business model is fragmented. We decided to address and our approach was to take a blank sheet of paper and some folks who had energy expertise some folks who had utility experience, partner with our good buddies at the Sandia National Labs. This is probably my seventh credit collaborative research and develop an agreement. Our friends at UNM and even an MSU. Now that Olga is there and Dr. Dan a verse of us so we've known for years and, and then how do we get some motivated resources to take advantage of the trends in cost and approach, right and that was our approach. When you start with a key with a blank sheet of paper you come up with a lot of good key attributes. And I'm not going to go through all of these today. I'll just stress a few but, you know, if you've got a super safe system just for instance just to pick one out workforce development. You can, it is our intent that you do a six week training course at a local community college at Santa Fe Community College or a CNM. And you would be an energy tech. That's a lot different than sending to, you know, two year plus experience folks in a quarter million dollar truck to the top of a of a power pole. And so we think that that will help in especially in rural areas in New Mexico and provide on ramps to low and no skilled folks who can to learn how to maintain. systems but again I'll just I'll just hit on a few of these just the point is with a blank sheet of paper you can you can really get through and create something from scratch which which bends a lot of minds and and so mindset is whenever you're talking about something really truly new and disruptive. It's really about the psychology and less about the technology the technology is actually important and it's an ante to get into the game. The psychology is more important and I'll talk a little bit about that as we go forward. What we call a micro grid, a distributed energy system is different than many micro grids you've seen, not to say that those micro grids aren't important they very much are, and we are standing on the shoulders of a lot of micro grid expertise, and the micro grid has been made. However, ours is a bit different, and I would just want to start out by emphasizing that that this is DC versus AC for its distribution it's AC at both ends both at the home or building level and at the power grid level, but the distribution within the micro grid is DC, it's decentralized control versus centralized control. And as a matter of fact it's it's it's actually distributed control, not all it has the capability of being totally decentralized but it's distributed. It's modular and standardized versus custom. The old joke of, you've seen one micro grid you've seen one micro grid. We want to have standards standard pieces of equipment that you just order. This is how many nano grid boxes you get. That's front of the meter versus behind the meter which allows the utilities to play. That's a big part of what we do is we were looking at current infrastructure and the problem with behind the meter is that there's no control of those resources and you get problems that are seen in Hawaii and California with duck curve and net metering issues which will eventually go away it's not sustainable. And how do we then control those things at each building and and you'll see from our schematics that this is front of the meter versus behind the meter. It's network versus non networked, you know, in a in a tabletop exercise in a community or a base before an event. If you pick the wrong building and put a diesel generator next to it. Well then all the other buildings are out of luck and we believe that network to know a note mesh network of nodes is the best way to go. New distributed energy resources are easy to apply versus hard, and we utilize the existing infrastructure. So we all know that the disruption is coming decarbonization digitalization and descent decentralization. And one of the things I've learned over my career is to look out over the horizon and find the thermals and ride the thermals versus flapping so hard these things are going to happen it's like, you know, the digital camera was invented in Kodak. And they came to management and management said it but it doesn't have film. Well, you can you can fight trends that are happening, or you can join in. As a matter of fact looked ahead 20 years and then work backwards that's what we're choosing to do here. We want to create a platform this will be something that many many will spawn many many more businesses, we are trying to be like the, like the Cisco of the internet we're going to be the the basic platform the basic building block. We call it block block energy of the new bidirectional energy network and and so we want we that's what we expect to be is a platform. This is a line diagram the line diagram is just meant to be instructional of our clean affordable safe and always on product here. But if you look at each house take or building take number one there. What we do is we put we make it just like your cell phone. It has its own generation it has its own storage, and it has its own power electronics, each one. And if you have that and if you have the building running off of the battery through an inverter split phase AC they get exactly what they get out of their meter now. Then, that says a lot of things about how you can design the loop or if you think of it like the bus here that delivers energy to it it doesn't have to be on all the time. You can design us really good safety factors and we've got intellectual property around our safety. This is a relatively slow system. In that battery asks to be first to be charged and you have a nice slow ramp up, you charge the battery nice slow ramp down and our intellectual property around our fault detection and protection is not involved over current. It says that anytime you've got any kind of ramp that is outside of what's expected, you turn the whole system off and from an engineering standpoint you can think of the system as normally off versus normally on. That means that you can really hit the safety part really well. Additionally, this is a this is an energy system not a power system now we deal with energy and power at the storage and at each nano grid box at each home. However, the distribution system is an energy system. It's an average so you can design for the average. So your local utility is somewhere between 15 and 20% of the capacity is only used. So a couple days per year, our fellow member of EPSCORE John Hawkins likes to say we designed for Christmas and Easter, but we run the church on a normal Sunday and in this situation you don't have to. You're designing for the average and not the peak. Additionally, what you see down there to the lower left is each micro grid has its own additional energy park we call it block energy park which has additional storage additional ground based solar or wind a natural gas generator and it is tied to the bulk power grid as a matter of fact our favorite situation is to be part of a network which includes the bulk power network. If you look at the individual building just for a second the way this happened was we started looking at buildings. And saying, you know, what could we do to to to have the paradigm of being in front of the meter and so we just put a box outside just like about the size of your air conditioning coil three by three by three that has sufficient storage power electronics. And in each box is the control system the sort of the power electronics and the storage to serve that load. As a matter of fact the control system learns the load over time through machine learning and we'll get back to that in a little bit. Then you run the DC solar into that DC box. And then the only thing that comes out to the house through the meter is split phase AC so that the, the folks in the house are getting exactly what they're used to. This is what it would typically look like in a neighborhood setting with solar on the roof and a nana grid box. And this is the, this is the diagram I want to really focus on though, and the rest is just examples of this. If you, again, I told you I come from Intel, I come from a place where we were trying to sell PCs in the early days. Well, what really made the PC something important with storage the analogy is actually striking. What really made it important, as we went through storage from, you know, first it was cassette tape and floppy drives then hard drives. It was seen as clunky and expensive than non reliable, just like the perception is for storage now with energy but that's not the case because there's a lot of electric vehicles and the tremendous pole. There are tens of giga factories for storage going on around the world and it will be the part of any new energy system. And so we will see in the next just very few years that we won't we won't think about storage anymore it will just be part of the design. I know I'm talking in the future here. But that's, that's where it's going and so that's where my heads at. But then the, but what really made the PC important was networking it. Right. So if you look at this, at this diagram of the circle on the left is each individual home you think of that as a PC. The PC is great on its own, but it's much more powerful if it is part of a local area network and that's what each micro grid would be the micro grid in this case is about, oh half a megawatt to a megawatt it's about 50 to 100 homes or mixed use buildings. And, and then at the next circle over would be the, the energy park where we have some additional generation storage ground based solar and natural gas generators. So the energy in this analogy would be your local server. So that makes it even more powerful where you can store things that are used by all the users right, and then the cloud is the utility grid in this analogy and all these things are even more effective when they have access to the cloud and all the other computers. Well, if you work this backwards now. If you lose the cloud, or the utility grid well you still have the resources of your local area network and central and your local server. In this case, and even if you lose the micro grid, the individual home has its own storage and can run for quite a while, even with no resources. The other way around to look at it is if you lose one node you lose one know the rest of the micro grid operates just fine. So, as I mentioned, we decided that we needed to start this out in a place that's non regulated and build it really quickly and through relationships, which is always the key to everything. We were able to start this year actually with permission and get an entire DC micro grid installed on a military base it's currently it's here at Kirtland or first base and it's actually up and running and I'd love to give you a tour if you're ever in Albuquerque just give me a call. I built a community center for the Air Force Base called the gathering space which we use as a demo space when we can show you on the big screens and actually move energy around and show you that. And one through and six on this picture is military housing temporary lodging facilities and eight is some CNI loads just small laundromat check and building machine shop which is fun loads. C one is very important that is our central control box, and that is our tie into the San Diego national labs. P cell, which we call the photo of attacks systems evaluation lab where we have another 30 kilowatt or so sore and some really good testing facilities there, but in nine on the other side is the most attractive part of this micro grid. And nine is Tartan tried into sending a national labs, dental the distributed energy technology labs where they have three hardware in the loop micro grids. Additional ground based solar which we are tied into. But most importantly they have testing facilities they have programmable loads they have programmable generation they can test for lightning EMP ground lift and cyber which is part of our cradle cloud of research development with them. So we have a system that is being a cyber for everything from our overall system to EV chargers we do have a normal level to charger but we also have a level three charger is all DC to DC that runs completely off the solar in the system outside of our community center. What we got out of is the timeframe we got this all done in, which is literally all this year. So January to July, we actually built it. We had our ground ground or ribbon cutting on September 6 and we've been commissioned in other sense and we're ahead of schedule on that and it's going really well. The five hours of resiliency is just a quick thing to show. And I'm trying to get through this really quickly so that because I really want to respond to questions and have people ask questions, but the way the military or the Office of Energy Assurance defines resiliency which I really like as the five hours. We've done and see resourcefulness before the event but after the event which is the most critical part response and recovery and the way we do our control system. We call it directed energy you can literally direct energy to any building in the system post event in a limited energy situation and I'll talk a little bit more about that in a while. We have our first three commercial micro grids up and running. We have the conduit in the ground for the building of homes next year these loops are 350 home loops, which we will show interconnected and networked capabilities between three DC micro grids and we are also going to hook in an AC micro grid just to show that we can. I just want to talk about our UI UX our user interface and user experience. We have an operator level for the utility where they will know where every single electron is. This is actually a screenshot of something that is in motion you see the dots on some of those lines there they move in relationship to how much energy they move faster or slower is how much energy is being moved and in which you can see the direction whether it's going from the solar panels to our EV chargers or to our central battery or even out to the bulk power grid. Or, or back to the homes when it's dark at night for instance, and you get every dashboards that show you the state in charge of all the batteries, and you know where every electron is at every moment. Let's take a moment just to talk about our control system in each and every single nano grid box. So we have nano grids, which is each building I'll just go back to that show that each building is a nano grid, nano grid and our system and that nano grid box that's outside of each one, again has a controller in it that again uses machine learning to learn its load from each home or each building. And so it knows exactly who's in the house when loads actually occur when the peaks are unique to that load, but it practices game theory. So in other words, it's very aware of its own loads and we'll make sure that the battery state of charge from a power and energy standpoint is there. It also is very aware of the community goals in the micro grid. And so it plays with those the rest of the nano grid boxes and the central box the central box is the same actual controller, but it takes on the role of auctioneer and sets a price for the micro grid. The price is not a real dollar amount, it's just an indication of whether the micro grid is long or short on energy. And that makes then that determines what it does with the central storage with any central generation whether it pulls power from the grid as necessary or if the grid is gone. It sends out signals that tell everybody to save energy and to be more efficient and effective with it. It also can provide a voltage bar frequency support back to the utility grid we really want this to be an asset at the end of a feeder. And you don't have to upgrade your feeder the more you add of micro grids they basically take care of themselves and can be I did completely. And so puts very little stress on the utility grid, but the utility grid can use it as an asset as I said, when it's long on energy it can it can charge batteries in the micro grid. In order to balance or it can take energy for frequency bar support, etc. Anyway, I know that's very quick, but I again I wanted to get through questions. There's my email in case you want to contact me for a tour of the micro grid and I will stand for questions. Thanks. Thank you, Gary. And I'll remind everybody the way to ask questions is through the question and answer interface in the zoom webinar you can type your question in there. And I will repeat it to Gary. I'll start you off Gary while we're waiting for our folks to ask their questions. I'm curious what you see as key research questions to either scale your micro grids and or expand their capabilities. Well, that's a great question. I'll start on the technical side remember I did state earlier that our biggest risk is in the regulatory environment. Micro grids are a new thing to regulators they don't really understand them and they have meant different things to different people in the past. And so part of the problem that you that we have in that situation is no set of rate payers are meant to be unfairly burdened for the benefit of other rate payers so this is why we've had very little innovation in the last 100 years. But that is our biggest risk but setting that aside our technical risks. So what we're going forward are of course the adoption. First of all, is getting people used to the fact that DC is effective. And of course, when we ask our vendors for different components, they're not used to this kind of use of products. So DC to DC converters and inverters that go 380 DC to split phase AC for each individual home, etc. So we are looking for the most robust and readily available and ready to scale. Because remember every single nanogrid box is the same regardless of the load of the individual building. The standardization is very important, whether it's two people in the building or six or, or 20. EV no EVs three EVs and so we want very robust nanogrid boxes that can then be used in aggregate and even in parallel for larger buildings and larger loads so that we can keep that standard box the same. So that's a very important to us so research along the lines of higher voltages are bus voltage right now is at 750 DC, we'd like to move to 1.5 which would allow us to go farther geographically do the voltage losses in the line. And so those those that's where we're going. The next place we will also go is to larger CNI applications where you would normally expect, you know, large three phase motors at 480 type of loads. And so we're looking for help and research there. And then we'd also like to incorporate into this as I told you the platform approach, things that other people are coming up with. You know, that would they would like to incorporate into a system like this. I hope that answers the question. Does thanks do you want to give us a little tour of what we're looking at right now with this interface. Yeah, so this is the UI UX I talked about we're working with a local company. RS 21 who those of you who are on the call probably know that that's Charles wrath who came out on an entrepreneurial leave from sandy national labs it's his company. One of the things we love about New Mexico the CTO Cameron Baumgartner was my son-in-law's roommate in college. But but we were very happy with this user interface and what it does is it shows where every electron, every watt goes at any time you can pick time scales you can. The bottom right is a time scrub bar where you can go back one month, three months a year and and see that and see what's gone on in your system. And then the dashboards on the side, they start with the tons of CO2 avoided. The house level there you see a side by side grid there that can be matched between the dashboards between an individual home and the entire grid you're first seeing the whole little micro grid we've got this is actual GIS data 3D modeling of the actual base configuration of that micro grid. So that's what it's showing there and then it'll go into the different dashboards on the left. This is a screen recording. This is not real time right now on the base. But this is a recording of kind of data. And, and like I said, you can actually see energy flows moving back and forth. Also from a diagnostic standpoint, you can things turn yellow or red, depending on if they're in trouble. And so if a state of charge of a battery goes yellow or red, we would be able to know that specifically. The term for the operator would be that you'd have a nice glowing green dot on a screen, which is each micro grid in a series of micro grids. If it turns yellow, you would double click it, it would go to this view, you would be able to then see what was yellow or red in this view, and go right down to that component level, you know, send an energy technician out there to just swap out the component, take it back to the shop and find out what was wrong. And the goal would be is that no one has even had to reset the microwave clock because remember everything runs off of batteries and has several hours or, or even days, depending on how the energy is managed and limited energy situations of energy before you have to supply more energy. Thanks. I'm another, there was another question that came in as you were speaking before, and it was how are end users notified to conserve energy, as you mentioned. So again, it's the psychology not the technology so the, the, the, if you look at that middle panel that's showing right now that's what one of the views that the individual consumer could see and the cool part about getting second by second data is, you would know exactly which the algorithms are already there you can see it in products like sense etc I've got one on my house right now. You can see when your refrigerator turned off when you can turn it on, whether it's being 15% or more less efficient this year than last you can tell when your conditioner needs refrigerant you can see all of that. And so they'll get the benefit of knowing all of that. They would get a text message, basically saying we've got a limited energy situation on the micro grid, or on your individual nano grid, due to X event. Therefore, you may want to turn off and it would tell you exactly what to turn off to conserve energy. Let's say this happened at 10 o'clock at night and it was in the middle of winter and you want to make sure that your heat runs through that through the night. It would tell you what you could do to make sure that you run through the night, etc. Long term, as appliances become available and if you look at LG they're already offering products that are DC and AC and I can tell you right now that I can talk to my refrigerator and my washer and dryer in my house now. That will continue especially when these types of products are available to accelerate and eventually you could set preferences ahead of time so that that would automatically be to be done by your nano grid box controller. It would automatically go in and do things like either delay your or your dryer coming on, or actually even limit appliances in a situation where you would prefer that you have heat through the night versus anything else. So if these systems are in front of the meter and potentially utility owned, then would the utility have the control to make those decisions possibly in the military situation they would in the consumer they would not so let me explain. And then there's also privacy issues in here too so let me just want those all together. We know that there are going to be some consumers that would be like, you know, I don't care about any of this just I want the lights to go on one night during the switch. Fine, that's some percentage which I think will diminish over time but there will there will always be some section that do that. There'll be the middle part the middle part of consumers that or percentage of consumers that would just they want to set preferences and then just leave things alone and get alerted if something goes out of range. There will be the ones like, you know, like most of the people on this call, which are going to want to go in there and play with stuff, and they will have that capability all over the place. They would be able to see their own house they would be able to see the aggregate of their neighbors houses and how the grid is doing, but they would not be able to see a specific other neighbors house. We would give the control knob to the operator in a base situation. They could have anarchy mode, which would be that they let every all the controllers just talk to each other and run. I don't think that most utilities will do that they'll want to have their finger on the scale. So that would be in control mode control basic control mode would allow them to control for major events and and direct energy as necessary to keep the most consumers customers ratepayers whatever you have happy. And then they would have what we call internally dictator mode that probably won't make it all the way to market and I apologize for even saying that out loud on the webinar. But that would be where in extreme limited energy situations that they could literally decide through pricing who got energy and who did not. That's that's mainly for people who are running military installations or campuses. Okay, thanks and we have a comment from Jack Chakowsky, who's chair of the New Mexico score State Committee and a member of the Association of Commerce and Industry in New Mexico, I think he's on the board there as well. And he says, Gary, don't forget to approach the ACI if you need assistance with any New Mexico legislation help. And the Economic Development and Technology Platform Committee has been a long supporter of EPSCORE and the use of related technologies that can benefit our state. So, know that you have potential supporters there to to advance your agenda. Thank you, Jack as a former board member and member I was I ran the medical services and committee for that for a while when I had that medical company I told you about earlier. I'm a big supporter of ACI and what they do and and understand that if we don't have a seat at the table you're on the menu, legislatively and absolutely will approach ACI we've been. This is we've been kind of in stealth mode we're just now coming out and just now starting to be commercial but Jack appreciate that and would love to come and give a quick demo to any ACI group that's interested. Thanks. Well, I'll ask one more question. Remind our folks who are attending that this is a good time to type your questions into the Q&A box. But just because our project has so many students. I'm wondering what what future workforce you see that is in demand at skills that our students should be trying to get so that they can work in these areas and work toward the future grid and in the future grid workforce. I'll give you, I'll do better than I'll give you a contact at each of the universities. If if you're talking about an energy tech, for instance, at the six week at the entry level. Which is probably not this the audience we're talking to but I'll just start there. You would talk to Kyle Lee at ingenuity for CNN they have they're working with workforce solutions and and Bill McCamley current director there as cabinet secretary excuse me on a energy tech curricula. And also with the Albuquerque Academy to even eventually get that into high schools, the UNM level you would talk to Ali Bidram, who recently took over for Andrea Mamoli, who literally has a micro grid curricula there within the mechanical and mechanical departments. And then if you're at NMSU I would go talk directly to Olga and and and get involved in that way. And all of the people I just mentioned have complete access to this and to me and to anything that we discover. And we are always looking for interested students and thought leaders for that matter to join us in this and to progress this model. Thanks. Well, two of the three of those folks from our project team and also at Santa Fe Community College we're starting the smart and micro grid training center I think Frank Curry joined them this month and is potentially on this webinar today. So, that will be a good person for you to connect with to and for him to connect with Kylie at CNN. And we partner with Siemens and Frank if you're on the call I apologize for not getting up there yet I've just been a little busy installing this micro grid and commissioning it but I really need to get up to Santa Fe Community College. Well he's just started to so this is good timing. Well I don't see any other questions coming in from our folks and Frank says Frank is indeed on so great that we've made that connection here today. So we will end this webinar a bit early but as a reminder it will it is recorded and will be archived on our website so folks can revisit this and also our project team members who weren't available to make this time today. We'll be able to hear it and I know that there will be many future connections between your projects Gary and our work at the New Mexico Smart Grid Center so thank you very much for your time today presenting. And as a reminder to all of those on this webinar today our next webinar will be November 22 at noon and it's the New Mexico National Laboratories presenting on issues related to micro grids and research that they're undertaking so. Thank you again Gary for your wonderful presentation and this great work that you're doing in New Mexico and we will be back on next month with you all. It was a pleasure. Thank you.