 Well good afternoon Welcome to the Dan and Kale Barak president's distinguished lecture series. I'm Tony DeMotto on the director of the UVM forestry program I'm really pleased to have an opportunity here to host Chris Caldwell I also want to acknowledge Dr. Lumen Dimmoff who's done a lot of the work in coordinating Chris's visit to come here As well as Dr. Sherry Morris from the Geography Department that's also played an important supporting role in getting our speaker here today I feel really privileged to be able to have Chris here speaking He's the director of the Sustainable Development Institute with the College of Menominee Nation and Kashina, Wisconsin Those familiar with Chris's work is a real leader as it relates to Understanding questions around tribal resilience as it relates to both changing climate conditions changing disturbance regimes as well as just changing cultural values Chris is a real leader in both understanding tribal Perspectives as it relates to the natural world as well as managed landscapes But also in connecting scientists with tribes to better understand how we grapple with some of these questions going forward around climate change And what does that mean from both a cultural and ecological perspective? I've been fortunate to get to know Chris over the past seven years He's the PI for the College of Menominee as part of the Northeast Climate Adaptation Science Center We're again He's led many efforts connecting scientists both around climate science as well as for resource management With tribal perspectives to really get a better deeper understanding of what sustainability means. I'm going forward So I feel really happy today to have Chris here on campus and want to welcome him as part of our lecture series So Chris come on up Test can you hear me? Okay good Well first of all, I just wanted to start by acknowledging the lands of the Abenaki people the Ancestral Territory I was I was happy that one of the things I could do today before the lecture was a tend to workshop where we had a Official welcome by one of the the tribal leaders for the Abenaki I forget his name Charlie Charlie but he gave a proper introduction and so I just wanted to to recognize the lands that were on the ancestral territory and I Say that because as I came here, I also recognize ancestral lands when I whenever I Go somewhere because it's as simple as just seeing What would be a good place to live? What has the elements necessary to Sustain life and definitely it's a beautiful area a beautiful campus So just wanted to say that and also to acknowledge Tony Tony's efforts and Lubin's efforts and Arranging to get me here So I'm busy a lot with the the work that I do at the Institute The other part that make made it tough was that I just started a doctoral program Back at Madison. So I'm both a researcher or PI on a project and my own graduate student and it gets a little tough to keep them sorted out, but I Wanted to to just Oh and to thank the the Barak lecture series for this opportunity So I wanted to just talk about some of the work that I do and the title itself is actually a representation of both the work that I do as director and also my current efforts to Start to think about a dissertation project that is really a reflection on this work I've done for the past seven years at the college, but also spans back into my other work as tribal Resource and compliance officer My work as a forestry technician and on different conservation crews Back when I was in the field and all of that pulling it all together into this This presentation and discussion There we go So when I said I I can recognize Ancestral lands and it's as simple as just seeing the elements that sustain life I'd I draw that reference from Looking at the homelands that I come from And we call ourselves the monomony our name for ourselves is my machita So my machita waka key. He is a monomony land This is kind of a odd Maybe if I can hang out here So it's this is on the poster But one of the things that I talk about when when I use this slide this photo is Just noting the both the the human and the natural impacts on the landscape so thinking in terms of The remnants of the impacts from the glaciers The glacial till they're retreating of the glaciers and what it left on the landscape But also the the continued natural impacts. Here's a Line a tornado line from 2009 where it It started on the western end of our reservation It touched down hopped up touched down again and just start cutting through the forest like a buzz saw basically And you can see it went all the way extended all the way up into the national forest and so within that con That context there the natural context. We also have on the landscape this this difference between Value systems are the way that land the land is Approached in terms of relationships So you can see the monomony reservation just because of the Contrast between the forested land of art our reservation and the Cut-over areas in the farmlands that surround it that are a remnant from the 1800s when when the forest was cut over and converted to farmland and so I I usually start with that just talking about those two to Impacts on the landscape, but more importantly I talk a little more on the human values that impact the landscape and That's really just a one representation of the work We do at the sustainable development Institute and one component of the the model that has been developed at the Institute that we use to both Conduct our work and tell us how we approach the work that we're doing and so this is this is a one slide summary of both the history of the Institute its Development, but also a reflection on the history of our people of the monomony people and Specifically our story of sustainable forestry The monomony theoretical model of sustainability was developed by tribal leaders back in the 90s around the time that The College of Monomony Nation was also created and it was a way to to better understand our relationships But also in that at that time period the United Nations was talking about sustainable development and Was there actually such a thing or was the term or was the term in oxymoron that it even makes sense And at the time tribal leaders felt that our story of Sustainable forestry could be an example of sustainable development And so as they talked about this concept this idea and how it might apply in the monomony context one of the things that that came to came to the front was that the the usual Sustainability models the ecological economic social or the three-legged stool it didn't apply to the monomony story And so as our tribal leaders talked about it They started to identify specific areas or dimensions that were important to the story and that they highlighted the land and sovereignty component was definitely an important one for monomony and More generally for tribes natural environment Economics institutions Technology human perception activity and behavior So these areas of community life or these dimensions Were a part of that that description and at the center was the concept of a talk to me When I when I started back to school when I attended college of monomony nation After working in forestry. I was introduced to the model and the the word a talk to me so if Fred were to mention monomony or talking monomony language in my mind a talk to me at the time It sounded like a monomony word And so I think I went for a few weeks before I understood it wasn't a monomony word and I looked it up in the dictionary and really what it is meant to signify is Nativeness of the land itself and just signifies that place-based connection that the monomony have with landscape We still reside on our ancestral land base although it's Largely reduced But that's kind of the anchoring point for the model making it a place-based model the other part is That as we look at the model and we think about sustainable development and working towards sustainable goals It's not necessarily that we're working to achieve a balance a perfect balance or that We say that there's any sort of point where we will achieve Sustainable development, but it's actually the process of Maintaining the balance working towards the balance and reconciling tensions within and between all of those dimensions, so We kind of say as a premise for the model as we're looking at human environmental Relationships and impacts on those relationships. If there's a decision made in one of the dimensions It ripples throughout and across all of the dimensions and changes the context that we're Investigating that that issue and so in that way we've already started to change the context and advance the model in a story in whatever issue we're investigating and so it becomes this iterative process of Not only identifying issues, but also using the model to Think through and organize our thinking around the complexity of the issue to develop a solution and in this regard it Creates this iterative or intergenerational process where it's a Continual effort to address the tensions that are identified we do have a Some of my colleagues and I Mike Dockery was the primary author He was the Forest Service liaison at the time and worked a lot with the Institute in a relationship there But we got together and we wrote an article that described this process a little more Specifically the history and the application and in both in research education and outreach. So if you're interested You could Google the Institute or I can get the link out to get it sent out But some of the the description of the model some of the the The basic understandings or the the history that's associated with the model It it really comes in the form of our connection with the land so people and land and as I mentioned for monomony the land and sovereignty dimension is very important just in the context of Connection to that land base On this left side here this map shows the ancestral territory of the monomony prior to European colonization prior to American settler expansion and And what it what it demonstrates is is the connection across the landscape? but also it shows the range that that we we lived on this landscape and so The name when I said ma machita wick that means ancient ones or the ancient movers and That signifies that as a people it was more of a seasonal round of living So unlike out here in the east where it seems like it's all suburban or city area Based on my experience. I feels like I drive through endless suburbs when I'm out here It wasn't like the monomony I Occupied all of this territory at once it was different bands Who moved in in seasonal rotations based on when food was available based on when material Medicines were available and so The impact on the landscape was not was not permanent once area was Harvested from or are used for Susten and subsistence the band moved to the next area but that that did change when once the the federal the US government came into being and Once they came into Wisconsin the through settlement and government interactions treaties were the the common way of Relationships the federal government made treaties with tribes in the monomony were no exception and so we can see here the the different colors the different hatchings on the on these sections here signify the different treaties that were entered into between the federal government and the monomony until the last one was entered into an 1856 which created our present-day reservation so you can see the change from 10 mil about 10 million acres of ancestral territory to 235,000 acres in Little a little less than 40 years And so it it created this land base which monomony is the 72nd County in Wisconsin and what this signified really was Was a change or a transition in the way that? Monomony lived the way that monomony connected with the landscape and I think about those changes in a few different ways But one of the the ways I think about it these days is just thinking in terms of language both our language And also the language of folks that were coming into the area As I said my Machitauc was the name we are is the name we have for ourselves The Ojibwe people coming in they they noted our connection to wild rice. So manumon Or manumony the wild rice people even the French during the trade era for trade era Noted that connection and the term for full of one. I think that's How you say it in French my French is really bad It's non-existent other than reading that title, but but they also noted that relationship the wild Oatman and eventually Thinking of the way we talk our the name wild rice people came out as monomony So that's the English version of it and signifies that transition and Then a little further along omatinum and a which is the way we say People of the wild rice in the monomony language But one of the things that I find interesting as I as I do the work that I do and the mission of the Institute of reflecting on this history and these relationships is That more people know us for for met to cool a key cue canal to cool The forest keepers so our forest management practices then they know us as the people of the wild rice locally, I think people still realize that but There's a change in that and there's a diminished Connection there our relationship and that's interesting in itself as we think about Resilience but also the introduction of climate change and what that means in terms of impacting our Communities and in the way that we connect So So as I talked about access to the ancestral lands to the the final Treaty that was entered into in the 1850s One of the ways that that we transitioned as a people Still maintain that effort to continue our relationship with the forest The federal government their solution to working with our working with Their solution to addressing the the Indian issue was to make everybody a farmer to break up the land landscape assign plots and then have everybody farm Individually and that wasn't the way that the tribes operated or at least how many didn't we didn't operate that way So The question was how were we going to maintain our relationship with the landscape on a reduced land base with less access to that seasonal way of living and so I would stories in the community people talk about well the government wanted to Make us farmers. We did become farmers. We became tree farmers. So I Don't know. I don't know if that's actually what our tribal leaders said at the time That's probably just a more contemporary description of it But one thing that our tribal leader chief Oshkosh did say after consulting with tribal members on how we might go about maintaining our relationship, but also Harvesting timber from the forest which was introduced at that time and not just the dead dead trees that we were relegated to at that time, but how might we Pull green timber from the forest and so his this concept this philosophy of starting From the rising Sun and cutting to the setting Sun and taking only the the mature trees the sick trees and the trees that have fallen was more based off of thinking of the values of Taking only what the forest was willing to give or to provide And that's a value that connected Long before and something that Menominee understood Where chief Oshkosh was the speaker? He was not necessarily the only one thinking this way it was after talking to the community gathering information that this is the Statement that was attributed to him and so by doing the cutting in this manner He said the trees would last forever and that's that's a value that That talks about both understanding the generational needs of present and future But also understanding our connection to the the non human beings That are part of the landscape not just the human beings that are part but the non human in our relationship with those those non human beings our responsibility to them and this reciprocal What does the forest provide to us? What do we do for the forest type of relationship? So just to kind of give you a quick idea of relationships So this is where our reservation lands are now and if you look at this map of ecological classifications that the Wisconsin DNR puts out Right through the middle of the reservation. There's a Tension zone to call it. It's a it changes from a Sandier type of area. So a barrens pine Barrens oak savanna type area to Richer habitat richer soils So more of a northern hardwoods hemlock forest cover type and so this this is important just in terms of Thinking about relationships Because what it shows is that these forest communities? So even though we've been Limited to a smaller land base There's actually a lot of diversity within this limited land base in terms of forest community covered forest Habitat types. So these are plant associations Habitat types that show the different Plants that grow together and you can see that the the change in the makeup of the plant systems changes from the sandier site to these richer areas here is actually a Transition our tension zone right through the the middle and it's important to understand those plant relationships not just in terms of if Community members were still gathering medicines still gathering plants for food, but in contemporary terms thinking in terms of Managing according to what that site would best provide in terms of tree species for quality saw timber And this reflects the forest cover types different tree relationships Which if you look if you ever look at a stand and you see trees there a composition or a single species It's not always the best indicator for what tree species would best grow on that site The plant communities are actually more reflective of the type of soils that are there which would then reflect What type of tree species might grow best on that site? So there's important connections important relationships in terms of thinking through that So as I kind of flick through those last three slides One of the things when I come to this one is talk about I don't know how many people are familiar with hearing the integrating indigenous knowledge and Western based science or contemporary science I View this as an example of that integration because the the statement or the the philosophy that chief Oshkosh had shared in terms of starting at the setting Sun and cutting to the our rising Sun and Cutting to the setting Sun is not literally how we manage our forests. It's actually Evolved in terms of Breaking it into more manageable pieces. So Right here and these are just designations just to make it more manageable in terms of inventory classification setting up harvest schedules, but It turns it into block one which is the reservation boundary in the Wolf River and Block two which is the Wolf River in the old railroad grade and block three Which is the railroad grade to the Western border and Within each of those blocks are compartments which are further broken down according to road systems rivers other geophysical features natural and man-made and within each of these compartments are stand stand level Stand level breakdowns where it then becomes a representation of what forest cover types what plant compositions are in those areas and so By identifying the forest cover type The foresters can then manage according to the different needs of each of these smaller sites so northern hardwoods have a different cycle than pure oak stands then white pine stands then Jack pine dry on dryer sites They have different needs different life cycles and this helps break it down into a management Management approach that is based off of what is best for the health of the forest And so it's this is all based off of that philosophy statement That was the the guidance or the the implementing framework for that and I think one of the things that This was I think satellite photos became a thing back in the 80s Late 80s. I remember seeing the first black-and-white photo Because it it was a big thing because NASA said The reservation was so distinct that they used the corners of the reservation to orient their satellites because it was a distinct feature on the landscape and it became important because it it really brought to light the The values you could see the values on the landscape you could see this This difference between values in terms of the the monomony as we our leaders sought to preserve our relationship with the lands that that were available and the change of the The cutovers of the 1800s and then turning it into farmlands So it it really introduced this new way of thinking and looking at the impact that our Management techniques might have on that landscape both for us internally and thinking in the community, but also externally So one of one of the things and this is kind of The work that I'm doing both at the Institute, but also as I start my program is Thinking about those differences in values where where I grew up and there was always a contention Contention within the communities about these practices these management practices and yet Anytime I went out and talked to people on the outside or not from the community It seemed like there was Universal praise for this those same practices. So there was this contrast in In perspective on these practices and that's really what has pushed me to go from working in the field marking the timber to be cut for harvest and to working in the administrative and planning level to the research level now and thinking about these questions so The impact of values on the landscape is a big part of the work that I do The research that I'm hoping to do in my my doctoral program But just to kind of talk a little about Transitioning from that history which forms the basis of our Institute and give you a little context of how we're set up College of Menominee Nation was chartered by the Menominee people in the 90s 93 And that was out of our we have our own tribal constitution and so The the college is a chartered entity of of the tribe And so we focus on tribal needs like the other 38 tribal colleges and universities in the nation business public admin education natural resources We are a land-grant institution So I think you said Vermont our university is the land-grant in that context there were 1994's which are the tribal colleges and we are land-grants For CMM our our enrollment has kind of leveled out. It had been up around 600 But it followed the same trend as nationwide enrollment in college was declining but we're starting to level out and We offer associate degrees primarily, but we've been building up bachelor level degrees certificates and a couple new things that are important here just in terms of Connecting the Institute to the colleges that we've been working with our faculty on developing an integrative studies and sustainability bachelor degree Based on the model that I talked about and so this will be interdisciplinary of course and and work through not just thinking about Sustainability in terms of natural resources, which is what a lot of people connect it with but really expanding it Across all of those community areas business public admin engineering Education and so that that's a progress in work. We're hoping to put that out by next fall The other thing is we just recently hired a faculty member to develop a sustainable egg degree program and looking at How do we base it off of art our indigenous values? How do we look at the different food systems? Not just what people that associate with farming, which is Row crops and cows and that's probably the biggest thing in terms of our community trying to Dispel that stereotype. I guess when we talk about sustainable agriculture But as I said the college was created in the 90s the Institute is a Project of the college the tribal leaders at the time reflecting on that sustainable forestry story, but also After reflecting the mission of the the Institute was to then Find ways to extend that into other areas of community life And there's a second part to our mission, which is then sharing what we're learning through the through the work that we do the different projects and so We're working with one of our our CMN students now, and I think she's Started framing it in a way that really brings to light these two models that we work with is How we do it? This is how we do what we do. This is an investigative tool The model here, but then we also look at another model that was developed the spheres of influence and Research education outreach practical application all based on Indigenous wisdom and so we talk about that as what we do. So once we identify the issues and We frame it out with the theoretical model. We we start thinking of well, how do we investigate our Educate or bring to light the issue that we've identified and So both of these models together they talk about How do we operate as an indigenous institution within our community and this is sort of a photo collection of Showing both our work within the community Visitors that come to our community our students going out visiting and some of the partnerships that we work with Through our through our Institute and the relationships that we've established as Tony said the The CASC Northeast Climate Adaptation Science Center has been a big one for the last seven years and It's it's helped us develop a lot of capacity in terms of how we connect With tribes on climate change, but also work with the climate scientists looking to develop tools to assist with that those efforts So this is our campus. This is the southern Southern border of the reservation. It's in the town of Kashina. That's the main campus This is the SDI office And so if I were to walk from here to the culture building on the other side, it would take me about Five six minutes. So it's not a very big campus But one thing we do have are a couple things we do have are these close connections to both agricultural area and forested areas and So what we've been trying to do what the Institute's been trying to do is work with the college to develop outdoor learning areas long-term research sites in both the demo forest and the The agricultural area as a way to connect classroom education With the research that we're doing to make it more relevant to our students And so the different areas we focus in are the climate impacts on the forest indigenous planning so revitalizing the way that tribes had planned and Using that as a way for them to think about planning again from that indigenous perspective the sustainable agriculture work and then This is just kind of a general one campus and community Sustainability so it it's just thinking through how do we as a campus serve as a pilot site for testing ideas that might be ramped up in the community like renewable energy projects like our This satellite photo doesn't have our biomass unit, but looking at biomass solar Wind power So it's it's a lot of opportunity there and this is a unique role that tribal colleges play because The campuses are often situated in the tribal community like like Cmn And so some of the work we do is connecting our our faculty students and community partners and learning together what we call a Professional learning community and these are some of the like I said the place-based projects. This is behind the SDI office Right here just working on our turtle garden as a way to talk about Sustainable agriculture and so if I were to give an example, this is early on Few years ago when we were talking about sustainable agriculture and since then it's led to What I talked about being able to hire a faculty member to now have them start developing a degree program to help Have them help redesign our research framework to connect with that degree program The other big part of the Institute the things that we do and this is I think one of the most important is we connect our students Through internships in the way I approach things I'm a firm believer in Making sure everybody understands they're a part of a team so that they're not just bringing their content knowledge But they're also developing as a professional so that they don't go out into the whatever job or Advancing their academic career without understanding the responsibility they have in terms of Sharing the information, but also conducting themselves in an appropriate manner Facilitating these relationships that that are important So every grant project any project we can think of we're always writing in internship positions During the summer we have anywhere between 13 to 21 internship positions That we start out on campus They all start one week together and then they disperse to their separate projects and Check-in mid-summer and then at the end of the summer They are required to do a presentation to the community and I was talking earlier with the organizers That public speaking is not my favorite thing in the world, but I seem to have a job where that's all I do And so in that regard I really I tell the students I give them my story and tell them I'm just sharing the pain and you'll thank me in the future, so So that's a big part is in through that effort creating professionals But also they have a network of peers now that they've gone through this summer experience They're CMM students. They are a monomony students that are at other institutions that come home for the summer They are different tribal members. They are Graduate students that we just throw into the group. We had We had German students Forestry students visiting with the Forest Service and we told them come over and so it's a lot of network and perspective Expansion is what I think it really does for our students And this is our recruiting what I view as our recruiting class So the sustainability leadership coal heart is a high school program This past summer we had 2021 our grant said 20, but we had a waiting list up to Five extra students and we just kind of pooled money together and said, oh, we're you know We have big hearts. We can't tell anybody. No, so we just brought them on board and No This this is an opportunity to engage our area youth in thinking about sustainability concepts, but I also think it lends to Building up their interest in the CMM campus even though it's in the community a lot of times People aren't sure what to make of the college They're not sure how to approach it and so I think with the SLC we do a lot of Community outreach just through them coming to the the campus to participate in the summer and then going out in the community and doing their their work so This is a representation of thinking through our mission working within our community But also thinking more broadly and how do we scale that up and work? Our primary focus is helping our community working there to address issues that were we're finding But also the other part of it is sharing beyond that so scaling up to regional national international work and so applying the model across to develop a global perspective and a lot of different projects we've taken on a lot of different projects, but Because the the poster said tribal resilience and climate change. I figured I'd focus on One of the specific projects so we've we've for the past I would say five years through the the work with the Northeast Cask Have worked on developing this website the Northeast indigenous climate resilience network and so really it's a way to to build on the Projects that we've worked on as examples for other tribal colleges in the region for other tribes across the region But it's also a chance to to think beyond just certain designations like federally recognized tribes So for folks that aren't familiar There are federally recognized tribes. There are state recognized tribes, and they're unrecognized tribes and the majority out here are state and unrecognized with just a few that have land holding so you can see the kind of the difference in the scale of the lands the tribal lands that Indigenous peoples currently reside on to the kind of the larger Reservation lands in the Midwest and they become larger towards the West, but One of the things that we work on is understanding these different contexts And how do we work with tribes that are trying to address? climate issues within their community when they don't have a land base or when they're You know all their resource and effort is focused on language revitalization Restoring lands access to lands are gaining their lands back revitalizing their cultures, you know, how do we work with tribes that are strapped for resources or have no resources and are dealing with those issues along with now with climate change So that's kind of the broad regional perspective of creating this collaboration of tribes climate scientists And other partners and allies to not only work with federally, but also state and unrecognized making opportunities available as we can But one of the things that has come out of that partnership is this new Document or this new effort by a team led by the Great Lakes Indian Fish and Wildlife Commission so this this adaptation menu Deba, Ginjigadega, Nishinabe, Ezitwad, so I'm still working on my Ojibwe But as a team We came together and one of the things that that I thought was cool about What Glyphwick and the other tribal partners were talking about at the time was they attended a training that the Forest Service put on Northern Institute for Applied Climate Science and it had these menus for choosing Strategies or approaches on how to work develop climate adaptation efforts in their communities and so they went and they said Well, that's great, but we wouldn't have done it that way or what about this? What about non-human beings? What about Bringing tobacco and offering it to your elders to ask for guidance things like that And so eventually it developed into this group of collaborators from different entities Niax, Glyphwick, 1854 Minnesota Treaty Authority Intertribal Council of Michigan our Institute and Working through how we would approach climate planning from an indigenous perspective, and this was just a I think our way of addressing an issue we had identified across the group But we also wrote it in a way using some using Ojibwe language and monomony language as Examples so that other tribes as they think about approaching climate change could Look at it and just bring their own language into the the concepts or the strategies and Make it more relevant. So it's still a work in progress if this was a two-year development Actually yesterday the team was in Minnesota accepting a climate adaptation leadership award for for this document so I Was really happy to see that to see them there And especially we have a crew that ranged across these These institutions, but also there's been a little one that's been a part of the group the mom and dad or Part of the team and so she's made a few of the workshops that we've done She's she was there for the award. So really I think that right there is an example of indigenous planning is not separating out certain people from the community and So And that that's all I Want to thank again Tony and Lubin and the Baroque Lecture series for inviting me and thank you for your attention We have some questions and actually we're gonna have to circulate a mic for those questions because they want those to be recorded so hopefully it doesn't stifle you from asking a question, but Just bear with our logistics here It'll also be a public reception right after this outside for folks to get a chance to talk with Chris out there, too So thanks so much Chris. I wanted if you I wonder if you could go back a slide and You know, there's this sort of sense of Having real actions to take but I also think I wondered if you might comment a little on the symbolism associated with the the Imagery up there. Yeah, so this this was Created by one of the team members Katie In what she was signifying were Is actually related to the the project title so indigenous are my presentation title indigenous sustainability paying deference to our future relatives and When I was thinking of that title I was kind of playing around with these experiences and I thought about this as well that the way she drew the turtle as a representation of Turtle Island or that relationship with the land But then also the connection between the different the non-human beings so the ones that don't have a voice in some of the decisions we make today as humans and and There was a lot of debate. I wasn't at all of the meetings, but the ones I did go to and the ones I heard about It didn't matter what part of the the document we were focused on but there, you know It was a lot of discussion and back and forth on single words phrases concepts Use of the term species was actually what started the discussion on beings so not only the the non-human, but the spirits the That connection with the forest and the the people in the community And so this was just as I understood it Katie's way of Trying to represent those two years of discussion and development on this project and and even this we we kind of haggled back and forth in emails and on the phone and I think this really was came out as a good project a good a Good feeling I guess, you know a good Result you could just feel the and it wasn't like we wrote grants or anything. It was The way I viewed it like mines coming together and as we started agreeing on what we were trying to do We just start bringing time and resources and people together to accomplish what we had agreed to do so I Think that's a perfect representation of that effort other questions Thank you for your talk in one of your six pillars includes human perception Which strikes me is really important, but can coincide or cannot coincide with what we might call data or fact sometimes So can you just talk about that piece of it human perception? Yeah And I think this so one of the things The model was developed and it's been in place for over 20 years In my mind, I think some of the emergence of the work by different indigenous scholars and looking at Ontology epistemology methodology I Think that the richness of that work is something that is Definitely helpful here It can start describing, you know different ways of knowing indigenous knowledge Date science Western science different approaches and perspectives to understanding Reality and how that's applied how that's Integrated or how we how we bring it together to address these common issues like global climate change It's a definitely a natural phenomenon that's impacting all of us in different ways So that's currently how I'm starting to view it Originally as it was developed. I think it sort of had that context but it was more based on Thinking in terms of the way Menominee in the past thought how we think today as we've gone through colonization and Howard So we're starting to think as we prepare for the future. So there's a lot of Different ways to view it, but I think the other important part is a lot of times our espoused values differ greatly from our actions and so That theory action gap I think is a very important part of the the model that we've only just start touching on and thinking about Does anybody else have a question that they'd like to Ask to the group. Yeah, I have a question that maybe follows exactly on what you were just saying and the previous question And you mentioned the theory action gap or value action gap and something you mentioned also in your talk was this idea of At one point you said you can see the values on the landscape in the satellite image And then you also talked about wanting to address that the impact of values on the landscape in your PhD program And I'd just love to hear more about what you mean by that and and also how it relates to that last comment that you made just now You mean I can't just make statements Oh What I really do think that And it's too different. I see two different Approach are two different contexts So within my own community And this is something I've been thinking about and I talked with my wife about to about thinking of our generation and Colonization and where we were at like I grew up a lot with Bugs Bunny and watching TV and that was sometimes my babysitter for the mere fact that my mom and dad were both working and So but I also grew up attending Catholic Church Attending sweat lodge every now and then and understanding there was a difference Not necessarily knowing they were separate because I remember in grade school In the back of the church we had a one of our old the older boys teaching us traditional dance for a procession we were going to do into church and so That that kind of experience and then as I grew up and start thinking about Our grew up. Yeah, I'm growing up but as I start thinking more about these things that it's just the The mix of perspectives within the community But then thinking about mainstream Society in the perspectives that are there and so I'm trying to think about that context the external context and how do those differ? How do people perceive these forest management? Forest management strategies, why do they perceive them differently and Eventually, you know, who's who's right who's wrong or is there a right and wrong? And I think that's why I point to the satellite photo in terms of If we want a forest that lasts that is maintained and that continues to sustain the people I Look at that satellite photo as a representation of that and And and the other part that kind of struck me more recently was I Kept saying because we want to plan for our future generations, but in a way cutting the timber creating farms was The settlers way of thinking for their future. I assume thinking they were building a life for future generations and so I'm starting to evolve more from just saying oh, this is good. This is bad to look at how these human values impact and shape the landscape So I yeah Pushing pushing me a little further than I was thinking but that's the whole purpose of this Chris and and I want to go back to the to the satellite picture and I wonder a little bit of a Forestry question. What was done in that tornado damaged area? Was there any salvage logging done? What was based on the values that we just talked about how was that treated? That's a whole other story, too, that's that's a difference in values in terms of the tribe managed this area and this is national forest and so I Remember at the beginning right away. There were meetings in my role it was a compliance enforcement officer, so I Translated information to the tribal governing body But also sat with MTE the forestry folks to make sure I was translating correct information But their interest was assessing the damage and then figuring out how to salvage it before infestation like diseases or Insect outbreaks could develop it in these areas and potentially spread into the unaffected forest areas and So when how many tribal enterprises started on that endeavor And I think within two years of the blowdown the initial blowdown They had salvage the entire area or as much as was possible some areas They just left because of accessibility or there were water Areas they wanted to protect The national forest from what I understood Was still going through their environmental assessment at the time I don't think they had other than maybe emergency cutting out roads on there were homes that were impacted so other than emergency cell Salvage logging are cutting They hadn't salvaged any of the timber off the forest, so I think that just shows It shows the the response The response time that tribes can deploy in terms of Ensuring the health and protection of the forest but it's also more I think an indicator of the kind of the The change in values on national forests and that sometimes people often associate conservation To the exclusion of the communities benefiting from the forest To where it becomes detrimental and and I think that's an interesting one to include in this landscape where the The forests were a clear-cut farmland was created heavy impact human use to national forests that are bogged down by Laws and any time you propose a timber harvest that I believe they get sued or they get held up in court from my understanding, I don't know if that's still the case, but I Mean that's a difference in sustainable management approaches right there. I think So we have like I said before a public reception outside for folks who want to stick around But I hope everybody's really enjoyed us. It's always amazing to hear Chris talk about the monomony people Those of us that are in forestry have always been external admirers of the work that happens there and part of that Admirations stems from the amazing people like Chris that represent their story And so thank you Chris for taking the time to share that today with us and those that want to talk with Chris a bit They'll be outside for about a half hour or so I'm as part of the reception So thanks again Chris for being here