 at seven we had a huge team of a bunch of different people and we'd all do all kinds of different crazy things and you know we we kind of worked off of seniority more than anything as far as making decisions and and letting people make the calls but the big change is now that we're at 20 we have entire forces we have an entire corporate well not corporate that's normally put it we have an entire what is it a hierarchy that exists so you've got Jeff you've got Cheryl and Zach and Cheryl is the lead events coordinator for DEF CON she's the one who handles the hotel any of the requests that people have she is absolutely amazing and Zach is the head of all DEF CON goons and then underneath Zach you have each one of the department leads or department heads myself Chris Lockheed with networking it's just crazy every every aspect of what you see going on in DEF CON and a lot of stuff that you don't see as a human all has an entire team of people dedicated to it to make sure that it goes smoothly and to make sure that it runs well I believe that DEF CON contest and events is about a third of the overall conference and my goon staff directly for just contest and events is 16 people so and it and it and I need to grow it to be honest it's one of those where every single year we find that we need more and more people more attendees you need more help 18 year old me would kick my ass 18 year old 18 year old me I'm in that photo of the Volkswagen bug and I'm the guy wearing the FBI hat and the punk rock t-shirt the MDC t-shirt and yeah 18 year old me would not like 38 year old me well because I'm a corporate sellout I live in a house in the suburbs you know I make you know I make I make a good salary working at a big company you know I've taken DEF CON security you know I've gotten DEF CON security itself to the point where it's it's run we have an org chart that that right there I think would cause 18 year old me to just you know go after 38 year old me about the time I said well if you check the org chart for DEF CON security yeah that would pretty much be it