 Hi Bentley, Dallas, Texas, the area coming from and today I'm really tired so I'm not sure my participation will be really high but if I'm thinking I can provide some value I will pop up but I enjoy doing software development so I'm another one of those people who software is the hammer and so that's how I fix everything which is not necessarily the right way but here to support everyone with tech if you need it. Awesome and I think we'll be getting to that place where it'll be super useful. Let's go, thank you. Pete and Max then Hank. Good morning, I'm from San Diego and it's going to be another gorgeous day here. I noticed some of my alert systems say that we've got medium small earthquakes happening in Los Angeles which is kind of interesting, high threes and maybe a low force but the interesting thing is they're multiple. Super excited about the new discourse forum, I'm sure it's going to be a little bit to adapt to it but I'm excited to see how that grows. This is the first discourse forum I've helped to submit so I'm always, I always love learning curves and discourse looks like a nice meaty forum so lots of, there's lots of place for us to discuss things so looking forward to it please don't hesitate to ping me if I can help with the forum or anything else. Cheers. Thanks Pete. Max, Hank, then Nancy. Have everybody first time on the call and had met with Pete on some organizing in the Francesco economy space kind of cooperative solidarity economy meets kind of systems thinking mapping breakout group there. I'm in Colorado right now I'm in the on the property I grew up on in Western Colorado in a little town called Hotchkiss and I'm under the dappled shade of a tree. It's an actual tree. I mean we're all kind of in awe. It's a, yeah it's a real tree here. There you go. Or it's a very interactive highly sophisticated virtual background. Backlight. Both. Love that. Hank, then Nancy. Yeah everyone just checking in from Providence, Rhode Island. It is actually a beautiful day here. Quite humid though. I ran a couple miles this morning and was pouring sweat after like maybe a quarter mile so been a tough one on that front but I'm not complaining by any means have been you know met with a couple people just that I've met through this call over the week been doing some some little research on on everybody which has been fun and most recently Jerry as you know I've been kind of look I was digging into that the discourse you know user user guide last night which is which is quite meaty and and I'm just gonna go ahead and say like I'm pretty excited to have a place to just join up and have some of the conversations that have been bouncing around through email is going to be nice for all those places to have a home and you know I've been looking at some other things or some other platforms that do the same you know similar things and I found that they're they're very easy to kind of bounce around in so I'm pumped and thank you Jerry and Pete for setting that up so yeah thank Pete he did all the lifting and all the coding and all those setup and all that's great Nancy then Matt then Cappuccino so Pete you must feel the earth move I'm Nancy calling in from the Swinomish lands on the Salish Sea up in Washington on the coast well the inner coast and an interesting thing I met an interesting person this week by attending a little intro webinar she did is a woman who's looking to introduce anti-racism into how people interact online particularly within the teaching and learning sphere and she's a young woman full of energy and was a great teacher so I was grateful for that that is lovely and Nancy have you been on any or multiple discourse sites because you're online you're yeah it's been a while but yeah a lot of a lot of the kind of uner you know the people working on the fringes of ed tech use it a lot and I'll have a lot of those friends cool Matt then Cappuccino then Charles and now you are surrounded yeah I have I have my crew these are the Jeff and Carolyn Carney really good friends of mine we're actually on Wampano land on Martha's Vineyard right and kind of a small pond that goes out to the ocean it's absolutely beautiful and feel really privileged to be in this in the space but you know we've been talking about memory legacy and Jerry it was you were you've often brought memory into this conversation but this idea that memory legacy is this is a connection between the past the present and the future so we've been talking about that we've also been talking about the role that play has in allowing us to move through interesting and difficult times as a you know as almost like a healing strategy versus our you know a transition strategy versus just something that you do you know to distract yourself from the world right so I don't know if Jeff or Carolyn you guys want to say anything we've been we've been thinking together for what 24 hours so it's been really an intense little brain brainstorm hi hi there everyone wow I love what's happening here you know what play has really healed me and I've we pre-covid been through some tough stuff and so thinking about those times you know what what moves you and what transforms you and how you want to share that with the world and my background's a bit of both marketing but also life coaching and so I was introduced like talking to Matt about how play has been so transformative I'd like to get that out there more and it opens the door for curiosity and wonder and like to pivot but in a way that's more tangible in a way like when you hear bit pivot it seems you know what the business term and things and play people can everyone can touch back to their childhood essence in those times so so that's been fun and having Matt here it's like a curiosity wonder you know it's like a walking cure cabinet yeah yeah exactly so so many you know ideas opening up and in terms of memory too with our you know we're all there with aging parents and things and and how do and maybe rolling play into that but help people curate their their legacy and but in a way that doesn't seem heavy in a way that's like uplifting and has that element of play and you know Matt's even used to term curiosity music museum or like what are the five elements in your life or they could be physical things like this little you know this was made somewhere on the island but that really means like for me a life jacket well yeah when I talked to was speaking to Matt and Jeff could like life jackets remind me of camp when I was young in it and it helps you float when you needed a rest but it also was playful and there's something life-saving in it and but I never thought about that before and these wonders we have are fascinating when we can have the little pause to open ourselves up to them so you know it fits into the story of threading conversations that we've had as well right because we have to be able to take the thinking out of you know private space and into things that inspire and connect with other people I think said everything just so you guys know this is Jeff Carney and has been working in the financial services space for his life and now runs a very interesting set of organizations up in Canada that's competing against sort of the traditional banks in terms of bringing bringing value to the you know to the people and allowing them to access that financial services market so more in the traditional space but I'm getting them exposed to maybe max some of your thinking as well I'm open I'm open love that and Carolyn just to riff a little bit on play one of the things I regret about modern civilization is that I think we used to just play learn and work together like that they were one activity in the Venn diagram was pretty much a circle and we have managed over our lifetimes to separate you know learning play and work and during our days to separate learning play and work and we've separated them so much that when you when you're playful at work these days it's okay but you know in the fifties like work was work when you were supposed to it was just business it's and so forth so it's really dysfunctional to separate things that way and I think now we're busy trying a little bit some of us more than others to reintegrate those and I love that when I see it because getting things done that are meaningful ought to be really fun to do and ought to educate everybody participating because we should all be learning as we do the thing so there's no reason why those things need to be really separate Capuchin and Charles and Julian yes I'm Capuchin and it's my first time on this course I'm very grateful Jerry for being in the group I am an artist I'm based in Bucharest, Romania but my work is very research based and I'm also involved in the larger project a festival that is exactly this actually it's about mixing play learn and work all together and it's called unfinished precisely because we feel that we should never stop learning and improving and and we're trying to make a sort of international platform for facilitating this so I love the idea of the open global mind then I look forward to seeing everything from closer up thank you that that is great and there's a piece of what OGM could be helpful in which is rethinking how festivals events work like where you know so we've just opened that conversation but I think that it's a conversation that many people you know in this room I really enjoy and might have a lot to offer so that's kind of where that is Charles then Julian then Judy everyone from Zurich Switzerland Charles of Pico lab collective intelligence Collaboratory with Lauren and Janus here and yeah it's real summer mode over here in Switzerland heading more the link these days swimming as far away from people as possible but it's it's lovely in that in that sense to be able to do that last night there was a wonderful conversation the last of the scheduled ones with Tom Attlee around polispl.is it's a tool to inform issues and policies and so and it's also connecting now with Tom's emergent model of this ecosystem of collective sense-making some of you heard a little bit about and as I told Tom because he doesn't have the energy to kind of organize and keep that going himself but we would want kind of people to get engaged in a cohort of some kind to that's into this idea of exploring collective sense-making and not just polis but other tools and approaches so anyone get in touch and let's make it happen Kiko lab is kind of rocking maybe Lauren can comment a little more on that we launching a new kind of series and phase of operations and busting out with some new inventions just upgrading all around and lastly this week on metacogs we did something called interoperability pattern jamming so I'll just leave it at that check interoperability pattern jamming yeah we're trying to make a game out of pattern jamming pieces of patterns proto patterns anti-patterns and so forth as a way to to co-create and evolve pattern language so I started iterating a kind of what I call minimum viable ontology of interoperability so it's it's pretty meta and it wasn't for everyone but but maybe it's for some of us here could be anybody who's familiar with pattern languages raise your hand like half of us I'm a really big fan of pattern languages I think they're really nice crisp ways of distilling wisdom in different ways so that sounds great that's and Tom Atley is a McGenius I mean he's been doing wonderful things he wrote the Dialogue of Democracy many years ago and I will just share my brain here on Tom Atley just for a second just so that you can see the kinds of things that I've been stalking him about and I have him actually under one of my favorite thoughts in my brain which is contrarians who make or made sense he's in Eugene Oregon by the way just for everyone wow so close and he's 73 and he's still still going but you know he's losing a bit of steam energy wise and again kind of specifically energy to organize and keep like zoom calls happening regularly and so I I'm offering some energy there I think Robert Best who's here and there's a couple of Khalia who's here sometimes I think three between the three of us I think we and hopefully some of us here maybe yourself Jerry as well we can really make something happen I think we can come we can come back and sort of have a deeper conversation about where this might fit and how we can help what we can do that sounds great Julian then Judy then Ken so hi I'm Julian I'm in Palo Alto which is the heart of Silicon Valley and my interest is in the mechanisms of knowledge how you store it describe describe it store it and manage it so this ranges from ontological systems all the way to graph and semantic data stores but my personal bent is that this can only be done with immersive visualization such as VR or AR so I'm trying to combine all of these into a cohesive approach to this basic problem of managing knowledge I take a very interdisciplinary approach to problems that sounds awesome I think we there's lots of explorations we can have and into that space thanks Julian Judy then Ken then Robert and you're muted Judy hi Judy Bannon from Minnesota nice sunny day today but I'll stay muted most of the time they're in the lawns outside but I'm really fascinated by how we can actually start to move into the action phase on this so that we start to have impact beyond talking to ourselves in other organizations so the development of working systems that we can introduce to other people to use which will grow the network in a lot of different ways I'm also on a personal journey to deepen my understanding of anti-racism and how to become a better cooperative sort of agent of change in that direction so if there's a breakout group on that topic I'd be really interested in it I guess my other passion is education how people grow and emerge and become more complete contributing people so that's enough that's enough Judy I love that and one of the action things I'm up to that I'd love some some help with is trying to figure out resources for anti-racism for white people talking to white people about this because you know two of the sort of taglines I have are black lives matter is white people's problem and me too is men's problem the other people are the victims women are the like me too should not be something women have to fix they're victimized by it so it's up to men and white men and white people to sort of sort these things out and one of my long quests is what causes people to change or to soften up and I think it would be really interesting to figure out how we might take action together to create media events exercises I don't know what what how this would translate but like I can imagine a whole bunch of different ways we might express this into that the space of anti-racism for example right I have a fairly intense resource around anti-racism and the stages of people moving through it from hardly aware or unaware to fully integrated I didn't want to throw it at the group because throwing it without precedent is sort of like it almost like an intrusion but if it's a topic we're interested in I can paste it in the chat or get it to you Jerry for distribution I think that the forum we have right now we just need to figure out where to put it and there's a there's a a thread I created called action like let's do something now and I think that we might just list a series of project ideas there and see who's interested in each of them and just go off and do something and then come back and report to the group as we go yeah and if I could just interrupt here Jerry I mean some conversations that we have on our sort of Tuesday organizing call of how we're thinking about this thing you know Jerry Hank and Hamilton who sometimes can join these is how do we honor the energy that goes to the do space at the same time honored the energy for people that go into sort of more maybe more of the philosophical space and you know do these meetings just really become a point of checking in with each other and touchstone so I think we I think you're right we're probably at a point where we need to begin to separate out some things and build momentum around both action but also for some people it may be building action or momentum around you know cramming this stuff in a more holistic philosophical way and I want to honor both kind of both of those you know both of those spaces and and probably there's a third space or a fourth space as well which is the infrastructure and the technology and I know people here have a lot of passion around that as well and so it is about you know we're about ready to get that next level of organization so just honoring that well thank you and I think a couple of people want to make comments about the last thing we talked about I noticed Charles Lauren and Capucin so Charles oh yeah I put in the chat actually it was just in regard to the you kind of made a passing comment about the victims shouldn't have to fix the situation basically and I just was pointing out that the conversation and the communication with open channels and kind of expression articulation seems still really key so there's I don't know if it's too strong to say that's still a responsibility of the victims or something but but you know the communication and conversation is key so I think I think this is a lovely deep conversation we should go into and and there's so many crazy nuances to this that it's it's interesting and I think also urgent Lauren oh I just wanted to go do my check in after you because it's highly relevant to what you were talking about and addresses certain things perfect so Charles and I with Kiko lab have actually been trying to work on a super practical actionable framework for memes just like that that you were talking about and we could use a super easy kind of google docs based framework for organizing ourselves kind of decentrally around OGM and be able to go off in different directions and it's it's basically just an index just a list of kind of hashtags so we organize things by idea and so we can talk more about it later but I'm just saying it's a super easy simple and it could really be powerful way of organizing ourselves just based on lists and basically gathering resources and community around ideas just by using lists and actually being able to attach resources like what people are willing to give to an idea even if it's not money even if it's time or effort or some intangible thing that they don't know how anyone could use it we could attach those to as a new way of fundraising cool thanks learn tag on to that it seems that the discourse would be well suited to help us make that all happen that's what i'm thinking exactly couple scenes did you want to jump into what we were talking about the way I was just using my desk okay good I have I sort of have an auctioneer's eye so I'm looking for people who are trying to catch don't always catch everybody so let's go Robert Neil Susan sure can you hear me yes cool um yeah I'm calling in from the Toronto area in Canada and yeah I like a bunch of what I've heard I'd say there's definitely lots of my core interests and overlaps here I I work in open source software often and try and help to create software such as either mind mapping or or augment say facilitators in in how they run group process in in the digital world so that these are things that I don't have all that much sort of applied practice with but I'm very interested in learning more through participation and sort of helping it yeah I'll stop there cool thanks Robert Neil and Susan hi everybody Neil Davidson I'm calling in from Belgium and lovin in Belgium thanks for giving me a bit of a chance to catch up I had a bit of a nap this afternoon after watering plants until about 11 o'clock last night Belgium's in drought and I've told people here before I'm a little bit between worlds I left Australia in January and the count is now in that about three billion animals were killed in the bushfire season last year so we're looking at pretty massive systemic collapse globally we're on the cusp of ecological collapse we're on the cusp of climate chaos so in the context of how do we self-organize both at the philosophical consciousness side of things and the practical doing stuff and at the how do we help people on that journey I'm very keen to see both what I can bring what I can learn and different ways in which we can engage to you know facilitate the healing required Black Lives Matter you know me too those sorts of things because if we can't learn to collaborate soon we're not going to have much longer to do it so I'm still feeling my way at this point into how I can best contribute to the group and again need to give my apologies for not having had a chance to keep up with the email threads I've been tuning into various zoom calls leadership quest type conversations seeing how people are using breakout rooms but also other mechanisms for bringing their knowledge and synthesis together and I still see a lack of synthesis I see a lot of people still bringing their bits but I don't see much synthesis and the synthesis I believe has to be in systems context and to get highest systems context has to be coherent with what is going to bring us life and so how do we get to a set of principles ethics that can actually enable us to keep creating conditions conducive to life where life equals all things not just humans so thanks for having me here again today and I'll go silent for a while thank you so much for joining us really appreciate it Neil everybody's moving around on me a little bit so I think it was Ken then Susan or was it Susan then Ken doesn't really matter would either like to jump in I'll jump in let's go ahead Ken I'll jump in since I can only see Susan's keyboard yeah exactly hi Susan good morning good afternoon good evening to everybody Ken Homer from center fell california I thought I'd give you a different view of my patio today so I just didn't want to get bored with my my real background um oh boy uh first Jerry thank you I really appreciating that you've started to include the check-ins on these calls because I really appreciate getting to hear who's here I after Neil's comment I just was reminded of of I'm feeling kind of a heaviness these days I just watched some of the hearings on bar and I'm wondering what the hell is going on and it does feel like there's you know there's all this collapse and all this chaos going on around us and people are just freaking out and polarizing more and more and so to add to Neil I would say how do we uh in in bringing coherence how do we deal with the polarization how do we I I've got some people that I know who are are intelligent people who have just taken these very hardened positions and they become really difficult to talk to and it breaks my heart it really it makes me feel very very sad um so I'm I'm wondering how can open global mind create a space to invite people with hardened positions to come in and create some space and soften around those positions and learn um and that has a lot to do with the racism and so I'll just throw in people who know me yet from past calls know that I have a somatic bent and for anti-racism my grandmother's hands is a fantastic book the author is in the somatic therapist and he includes a bunch of exercises for going within and working on very much what I've done in the past of identifying your triggers wanting to unhook them and creating a space so that you don't get triggered and start acting out of reactivity that can stay present in a difficult conversation around race so I want to just recommend that um and and can you just said what I was going to say roughly which is um and I was going to maybe add a little decoration to it which is one of the central purposes of open global mind is the thing you just described how can we bridge the cultural divides how can we um stop destroying ourselves through argument through through not figuring out how to collaborate and if we can if we can have breakthroughs on those things and if anybody wants to elevate projects to action items like things we could do tomorrow to try that out in different ways I think experimenting with it is is huge that would be great um so that's top center for what we're trying to get done here and I'll just say one last thing which is Abby I love seeing your cat what a beautiful animal it's so nice to see another that's humans uh Susan do you want to jump in then Abigail then Scott and you're muted Susan there should be like a speech you know speech you know right you you button I thought I had unmuted myself for once I did that when you were younger oh yes thank you much younger um yes I'm Susan Saki I'm in the San Francisco Bay area and I know a few of you but um looking forward to hearing what everybody has to offer here I uh I have a a long-standing interest well two pieces of my life threads have come back together one of them is that I I started out life a professional life as a as a phd in linguistics and with AI and cognitive science postdocs thrown in then I went off to change the world um and uh and recently I came back to a topic which which I think is important to what we're having here which is uh the subject of human conversation and how it works and looking at and looking at it in quite fine-grained detail um both uh both in terms of new research um I'm not doing the research myself anymore but I'm collecting so new research on on conversation that uh shows that there are more more things in common across languages than we might ever have supposed and it may not be about about language at all but the second thing is that um the looking into this and seeing um what kinds of tools and ways we have of of actually bringing people together and one of the most intriguing that I've run into recently I introduced gerry 2 um it's called beyond and uh and and basically it looks like every other's it looks like uh the kitchen sink which it is but has a very tight flow uh which causes certain things to happen and I think it's one of the rare places where I've seen the um the amygdala and the intellect get get joined very quickly um and it's working at a distance and it's working with people who've never met and uh so I'm following what is beyond that is the that's the name of there is a uh beyond organization and it started out as beyond leadership which I was part of a group where that was being we were trying to move our thinking um it's it's a protocol I call it an interaction protocol until my one of my colleagues who was one of the founders said I looked that up online there isn't such a thing I said I know that's what I think it should be um several of them so uh I have uh yeah so it's a protocol it brings people together it's very tightly scripted um which I usually hate and in this case I think it's actually um a useful technique because people do come out feeling better and feeling like they've feeling energized and feeling as if they've just discovered another person or another a few persons it's a small group process with breakouts and uh tasks for it's timed I mean the structure that Susan's referring to is that each step is kind of timed and uh and sequenced to bring people closer together uh in a quick in a quick period of time thanks Susan um Abigail then Scott hi um I'm Abigail you can call me Abby I I'm simply spoken a designer um I've been living in Silicon Valley for more than 20 years I'm originally from Europe and I spent most of my life working for Apple and Google X and Huawei and whatnot but now I'm working on creating my own type of company I'm trying to also solve a similar problem like Jerry's trying to solve a place for the mind I'm specifically interested in creating an interface for the thinking mind that doesn't only include words but also images drawings and I'm now building basically a design language and all the components that would be necessary uh to create basically uh the the software needed to facilitate that type of system I'm not sure yet whether that will become another application or whatever that might be but that's basically what I'm doing right now as an entrepreneur and that's also the reason why Jerry brought me to this group whether that might be useful for open global mind or whether I might become part of the ecosystem that's yet to be seen I'm very excited to meet all these amazing people I'm also very driven by you know what's happening in the world breaks my heart but at the same time I see a lot of opportunity with all these challenges for innovation I believe we have a tremendous chance to you know redefine what it means to be in this world today so I'm very excited to be part of this group and as somebody else already said let's not only talk about it let's get something done thank you we have a friend of mine is a volleyball beach volleyball player like world-class actually a friend of a friend and she used to take she used to mark tape on her body at the one meter mark and the meter and a half mark and the two meter mark because she's really tall to basically show because it was beach volleyball to show where the water level would be shortly um some you know really really small things to try to be illustrative of what the changes that's of what some people can begin to understand it I remember years ago we used to live in uh right next to the mission district in San Francisco and somebody had painted on a street they had painted a blue section on the street and it turned out that that blue section corresponded to what used to be a stream that ran through that part of the mission district and if you if you went and looked at a map you could see that there were sort of veins of water that had been just paved over and and buried and it was lovely just to see where water had been right so sometimes we can have projects where you do discourse and participation sometimes it'll be physical things that somebody has done that we're sort of getting the word out I don't know exactly but I want to let us experiment with physicality and somatic things as well as intellectual things and apps and god knows what Scott on them oh right hello everyone i'm up in interlock in michigan in the united states um this is as you often all say probably the best hour of my week um so i guess you can consider me i made some notes so that i could get through this quickly i think you could consider me a curious rippler which is a word i just made up now i'm drawn to this because of curiosity and i hope to ripple outwards and so what do i mean by that i want to build young thinkers so my interest in this and i i expressed this a couple times ago is that i want to help make these subjects as accessible to young people um and and all of you well not all of but many of you work in a very technical high and deep complicated complex amazing space and trying to bridge that gap and bring it down to perhaps the kids of the world uh systems thinking visual literacy all that sort of stuff um a simple example is i just had my first blog post published um to cabera research where i did it you know tried to model their systems approach and make it again something that anyone can understand which is something that they try to do instead of making it something that's more complete and more complicated which the world is very complicated it has to be dealt with at that end but also how can we make it accessible to anyone at the dinner table and and that's kind of my interest in this whole thing um one of you susan you mentioned the language commonality um this is a fascinating little uh video on the evolution of the names of colors which you can take a look at later and what was fascinating to me was that they all evolved the same across all cultures they all start with black and white then they add red then they add either blue or green and then they add either green or blue or no i'm sorry blue um yellow or green then it's either green or yellow based on which one they had and then they move on to the others and it's just they it's it's consistent and so i think that that might be interesting too at least susan and maybe others here if you want to get into that can i just interrupt and say one thing about the the uh about the about color terms in language and i had a very vivid experience once when i was living in africa and i commissioned a small rug um which was quite large red i wanted it to be dark red graphic made out of raffia braided raffia dark red black and um and cream colored white and i had heard i had read that in this let the local language in fact the banted languages mostly don't have color terms the way we have and they have uh they have words for they have hue and bright and something else well so i asked for a multicolored rug which i translated into and i tried and i said red black and white i translated it oh i was speaking in french to them and when i went to see it guess what it was multicolored interesting yeah they have what the way they do colors there is um is uh with color like sky hmm color like this color like that oh yeah yeah interesting similes okay well that's that's great yeah okay um and so the last thing is that i had a little story i so i watched the last open global mind video so i could kind of keep the thread going and talking about the racial divide and and how we can go after that and again i'm not a very deep thinker on this um so let me just offer this up one of my thoughts on it is or my initial thought is well make friends with somebody who doesn't look like you and i found that that you know we're talking about groups versus groups are groups and groups and to me it always came down to the the personal level and and and i'll share a very quick story about that make friends with somebody who's not on your team okay so what does that mean uh i'm a hockey player have been for years a hockey coach and one of the things that i instituted because i'm a huge fan of sportsmanship i think you can play hard you can play fair and you can play so everybody wants to play again which is kind of my little my little mantra there in the world of sports and over our holiday break people would go on vacations and it would all you know all the teams would kind of break apart because there weren't enough people to continue playing in our little league and so i suggested we had something called the goodwill game and so over the holiday break whoever was left around in the neighborhood would um would be available and we'd all come together we'd essentially throw our sticks in a pile and you pull out the sticks put them into two piles and that's the two teams and that's that's how it works and what we found is the unexpected consequence of this the benefit of it was that you sat on the bench and played with people who you normally opposed in the in the sports arena and over the course of the season we would see animosity kind of well up and people would start to get as we called it chippy and they'd start you know hacking you with the sticks and you're not checking but you're being rougher than you need to be and what we found was that anyone who was a participant in the goodwill game they didn't have that and it managed to stay for the rest of the season because they now were playing with teammates even though they were on the other team and people who were not participating in that continued their tribal this is my team this is your team and anyway i just thought it was an interesting a different way of approaching that that i had found to be successful so i'm glad to be here sorry my brain is acting slowly i wanted to share an article from back a while ago i'm in the atlantic because i collect stories about what causes people to change their minds or to get closer together and this one is about the black september organization which are the people who who carried out the munich olympics kidnapping which ended up quite bloody and the short story is after that yasser arafat started getting invited to the negotiating table but he had like 300 people who were sort of trained killers just waiting to go do something else like the munich massacre so he kind of needed to disarm them and neutralize his black september organization and what they did was they put a call out for young women in the Arab world to do something for their chairman basically they had a dating service where they married off the guys in black september gave them a bonus if they had a kid told them they'd get a tv and a flat or whatever and you know five years later basically they had they had dismantled the organization and they tested the system by offering them an ambassadorship somewhere else in the world some of them not all of them and knowing and everybody knew that this person was wanted in other countries so if they left their homeland and went to the other country to be an ambassador they would like the end up in jail and nobody picked nobody took up the ambassadorship they just they preferred actually having a life anyway i like the story and scott thanks for i think one of the things we can do is collect up stories of what works but we need to manifest them some way in a memory which is what i sort of get to do in this brain thing which motivates me to be here so hamilton um well can i can i i'm going to put one more link in the in the chat it's a one-minute video i don't know how that fits in our context because if i shared it you wouldn't be able to all see it at the same time but it was an example of one of the coaches that i worked with and we were trying to bridge gaps and after 20 years he gets a random post on facebook that is it's one minute long that was basically a testimony to that sort of i don't know the the sort of thinking that i was that i was talking about so we can watch it later but it was i thought it was just a perfect example of the outcome the potential outcome when you actually are successful in um and bridging those gaps so awesome thank you okay i will follow the link and not watch it now um hamilton are you are still still on i'm here yes there you are i had my and i'm having network issues today so i apologize and i apologize i was late i was on a call with two fellow ogmers uh peter van and and pendleton uh and it's so funny it's like we could have just carried our conversation into this one ours was around um you know and work work with john sealy brown and design unbound around designing for emergence and creating agency in a whitewater world seeing the world as a whitewater world and she talks a lot about how actually using that the environment is an agent in our decisions and if we if we don't look at it that way that we're just working against it and do failure which is interesting uh she talks a lot about we're talking about sensing and you know for her that the normal you know everyone in business can do sensing sense making and reasoning that's sort of the the how it goes now and she says what the next evolution for us is sense breaking and imagining what isn't right and this is a lot of what we're talking about here is not only sense making but sense breaking and and seeing what isn't and she talks about pragmatic imagination uh which i think is really interesting uh she talks about imagination as a muscle that can be built which i think is also really interesting uh but the last thing she talks about when she talks about how do we actually make change and she talks about systems of action uh and you get that heard a lot about we need to act on this how do we act on this and um i think and jerry i think you may have even spoken to her about this i think it's a very interesting model it's very simple it's it's all words that we use in our lives and other models that they're sort of configured this way this idea of a system of action that i think would be really useful for ogm and how we can actually make impact and and and move from talking and thinking into and doing and and seeing and i think peter van peter van is very taken with the systems of action frameworks and i'm not sure i've absorbed it enough to understand how to apply it to what we're doing but it sounds it sounds like it's in the right neighborhood yeah yeah um anybody we missed in the check and round cool um that's a lot of stuff my brain is my brain is kind of just dealing with uh the interesting things everybody's up to i'd love to go back and just hear um what could we do that would feel like satisfactory action what things could we do together from whatever you know so far about ogm and where we're headed that feel like action type it in the chat raise your hand discord quick tour a quick tour discord that sounds good i let me do that after we do a little brainstorming the next thing i'll do is a tour of the discord uh instance thank you i meant to do that meant to do that um what else could we do that would feel like the group has done something in the world i'm not even sure how to phrase what action is because i think each of us thinks that action means maybe a slightly different thing i think about this and this exact meeting or over the next wow i'm thinking over the next two years like like i don't i don't mean what might we do right now you know while we're together on the call but but rather what projects would be be excited to undertake because they would feel like we'd be making a difference and again what maybe even what does action mean to you so um when you earlier in the call when you mentioned the people were talking about people kind of coming together and communicating on actually i can't remember the exact context but it spiked something in my mind i was thinking that several of us do probably have uh ideas on new processes and new things to experiment with um and i know we've you even talked about um uh you know how to you know taking a step to to to dive a little deeper as a group into those things so i think we just had a little bit of process to make that happen as a you know so we can kind of have those meetings on specific topics just like we did um we've had a few on systems thinking and some some of the tools so i guess i'd like to continue doing that um and then seeing how we can bring all these new processes ideas and tools together um and so nancy who just dropped off the call and i think might be back but she has a couple of different calls that she's switching between when lockdown happened she's an expert facilitator so she started hosting some conversations in zooms trying to use different kinds of what are called liberating structures which is a group that she was part of just to get everybody more knowledgeable about what those were one of them the one that sticks in my head is called one two four all and what it means if you're in a group you ask a question and you give everybody even just a little bit of time even a minute just themselves so that's the one then you pair people up in twos and you have them talk about the same question then you go to fours then you come back into plenary and that is just a pattern that seems to work really well it makes for deeper conversation people have more more and deeper connections with other participants etc so one of the things we can do is we can do that a lot and we can do that in collaboration with tom atley and the polis conversation we can do it i mean we know a whole bunch of people who were experts in these kinds of processes and so forth and so we could float hey you know we'll have a little announcement place on on the discourse so anybody can go join any of these conversations and and maybe and maybe even better report back on how it went what was it good for what was it not good for and then we can curate that into our longer lasting memory of how these things work and where you know how to locate them and so forth does that make sense yeah so that would also include a deep dive into some of the new processes and ideas like an ability for someone on that discord to not just say they want to attend but here's an idea i want to play with who who's willing to come play with me exactly um and and i'm seeing a bunch of posts on the google group which are large systems thinking ideas about hey here's here's if we do this we'll fix the world's problems and i'm not sure ojim is going to fix the world's problems but i'd love us to amplify those people who are trying to fix the world's problems i i'd love us to figure out how do we turbocharge how do we provide sort of nuclear fuel how do we um how do we let the ripples reach farther right um so that we can um help spread peacemaking so that we can help spread uh hockey where you just pull randomly who you're going to play with next all those kinds of things if we can make those more easily available maybe then uh we can temper things and change the world but but i don't know that we're going to have like the game be kind of idea or the two percent solution kind of idea or i have a thought in my brain of promising promising solutions for world problems right and i there's there is no lack of people with pretty brilliant ideas for how to fix the world's problems and i'm trying to figure out how do we amplify everybody's capacity to do that and how do we give them more memory and context so that they can remember what they agreed to last time instead of fighting it over again this time right um jerry maybe what would help yes what maybe would help is a little bit of a format if you will you know the tech conference for instance had a very specific format 20 minutes for a presentation you know in a conference ideas were spreading and now they have a website where you can go and download the video and what's really nice about uh tech at the time obviously um there is a certain predictable format i don't want to say that you know that should be open global mind but a structure that allows to be a container for people to come and um put in the ideas i i don't want to be so sound like mechanic but sometimes thinking for us what could be a structure for a different type of ideas and that goes back to the patterns um allowing us to help people to share their ideas and thinking so that we can basically use those patterns and then help propagate those ideas i know i'm throwing out a lot of stuff here but i think it's kind of useful abby if i could just jump in here your app i mean you're absolutely right and i think i again i want to come back and honor the fact that um everybody has personal passions and interests and things that they're trying to solve right that we know that the doing is an important way of experimenting with how change happens right and i know that it's one of the things that unites us so you know we have to respect that some people are going to want to go there but we're we're where you just framed is i think precisely the work of ogm is this idea of how do we design the container or the environment space that allows for um all of these ideas to you know as jerry said be amplified but also be connected right exactly about the fact that we have you know call it a million really valuable projects on the planet right now trying to solve some really difficult problems but but like momentum they're all on different slightly different vectors and moment exactly of slightly different vectors means that there's there's a dilution of that energy that's required to go after i think the way you'll frame some of the things that we're dealing with as a society so our our job is not to solve every problem exactly about the capture that allows us to globally solve the problems that only take all of us changing everything and that's the yeah we have to be thinking and so i think we need both the experimenters who are in play because they're the consumers of what we build but we also need people who are building the the kind of the technology of that container and we also need people that are building the philosophies and the and the kind of the structures and the patterns of that that world yeah and we can divide and conquer i think that's going to be important but i i love the way you're thinking about it yeah yeah and then we can also think about you know we need to really think about the flow because how are these ideas being put in by whom we need to create different types of personas if you will we need to think about the different types of institutions who put those ideas in there like universities individuals corporations entrepreneurs people like you and me moms and pops right that's the beauty of this place because this way we democratize it and then we think about the people who receive those ideas on the other end and how those ideas are being distributed and then how are those ideas being recorded are they being recorded by video are they being distributed by slides are they being written down is that a combination they're off is there maybe some kind of instagram kind of way and i think by making it more concrete for us and thinking also about you know how people are maybe more receptive to certain ideas you know maybe younger generations because this is when i talk to my almost 60 year old daughter she says she has a very quick way to receive information right she goes through tiktok instagram but then when she's very interested then she will go deep but to be interested at the beginning she wants to go really really fast and we need to be receptive to that and that's also another thing we need to have maybe somebody in our group who represents that younger generation um neil go ahead thanks abby and and others for those comments and just resonating with that for me the using some of the analogies that have come up before i think it was scott was talking about being a rippler you're throwing the pebble in the pond and seeing her responds i'm still dancing around this group learning who's who what we're doing at what level the framing is so critical to this there are horizontal guilds of people that have different skills at the same level of consciousness and there are vertical differentiations based on what it is that we believe is the driving force that needs to be brought together here and so some people are going to be happy and i've used this example before and if you can't do anything else but vote with your feet why would you be an admin assistant for a weapons of mass destruction manufacturer when you could be an admin assistant for somebody who's you know regenerative agriculture for example so the same role with a very very different outcome because it's life generating so uh bucky fullers shifting from weaponry to to livingry so there's there's elements here in terms of the ethical choices and how we help people to find that ethical compass of the sorts of things we ought to be doing with this information and then there's the the horizontal rippling that scott was talking about then there's the deep dives and that was sort of hinted at there by abby talking about how do we go dive deep dive how do we go to new levels and bring it back and find ourselves at a new level and i've used the analogy of salmon leaping up a stream before you know you're swimming around with all your mates and then you're trying to work out where's bill gone you know and bill meanwhile has just arrived exhausted in another pool going hey i made it and then who are all these oh i recognize some of these people and so you know keegan talks about you know five levels of consciousness you've got hansif hansif reineacht with metamodernism and how do we help the the self organization at multiple levels of consciousness around multiple levels of these problems within the predicament the predicament is bigger than any of the problems we're not going to solve the predicament we are going to potentially find better ways to be in these times in these places because of the stuff that we know not to do and to do and so i'm keen to see and somebody talk about container just referring back to the container glender oyang has a model cd model container difference and exchange the container has to be the right size if it's too big things are too diffused if it's too small things are too constrained if it's just right where's the goldilocks zone right secondly with difference if the difference is too great if you're having too much polarized argument how do you bring a different level of difference and it's the difference that makes the difference how do you bring that closer together and the exchange being how do you create the conditions for mutually and reciprocally beneficial exchanges and so that cd model to me links into this difference between agreement and certainty and different levels of agreement uncertainty depending on your capability and maturity to handle chaos complexity through to simple order and so i think there are ways of framing this i haven't had a chance yet to dig in to the ogm to see how you've currently got this structured but different individuals are going to be coming for different things so as a library you know there's things that people can come and read how they apply it will depend on what they think is the problem but ultimately if there was a way of gently steering that towards ways of being life generating rather than just for personal benefit that would be a way of i think of having some overarching ethics which guided collective multiple actions at different levels of consciousness and i'll finish on this that this group already to me represents a mutually assistive community a mutually assistive community in the context that the next-door neighbor might be your closest ally if you have a health problem rather than the ambulance they may not be the expert but they might know more about it than you and they're certainly better off than you if you're lying on the ground with a heart attack and so how do we align people buddy people give people mentors that can learn from allow people to change the relationship i'm the expert on this but i'm very shallow on this how do we align people to mutually learn and then bring that back and i think that is the vertical differentiation of knowledge and consciousness not just horizontal variation in discipline and role so claus and then me for a little bit i'd like to put a couple things on the table as well go ahead claus yeah so i'm i'm thinking of projects and project management as a rather mechanical process and so there are really two two issues one is what are you trying to fix you know what what is the highest ambition of the project and then how do you go about facilitating that and i'm really emphasizing facilitation here so i had an exchange with tush born he's not here this morning but he really he really sort of asked interesting questions you know that structured the conversation so i mean i'm totally focused on food systems you know food system is it is to me is on power is the energy system it's of equal importance but it's not being recognized it's just now coming into into awareness that the food system is actually far more survival focus than the energy system even is so so he proposed a couple projects that he thought could be let's say low-hanging food could be easily fixed and so my question then was from so often when you put this into a project frame right then the first thing you want to go is explore why this project hasn't been fixed yet why what are the pros and cons for fixing this problem what are the resources required to fix this problem do you have those resources you know in the scheme of things if you look at a multitude of projects where would you allocate your resources as the most beneficial place so i've been doing this for a number of years now i'm working with several organizations sort of as a coach and i gave up my consulting career and focused on NGOs because they are more they are receptive you know and and trying to get themselves organized and together and and what is really missing here is a process structure where they where that guides their thinking through phases of exploration you know from feasibility i mean first of all we call it a blue sky you know what what is out there that we could we could address then you go into a feasibility approach and so on and so on and you bring it into a prototyping phase um and i agree yeah so there isn't i'm not sure that in in a team like this we could actually do something but we can help develop structure and guidance because the knowledge base out there is so phenomenal already i mean everything you can ever think of ask the question and you will find the answer so it's it's consolidation of information consolidation of structures that then help guide teams forward so let me throw a bunch of things in the conversation that i think our answers to some of the things we've been saying some of these i tapped into the chat so i you'll have to scroll up a little bit now because the chat's really busy but i i talked about five minute universities and i put a link to one of the ones that i did and the idea here is all of our stacks of things we have to read are way way way too big like no none of us are going to get through neil just mentioned two books i haven't read and i'm starting to know neil and i'm like oh crap now i gotta read this um how might we short circuit that process for one another and for the rest of the world so so the five minute university i put up is i posted on youtube a couple years ago it's about polanyi's book the great transformation and unfortunately it's not five minutes shortest like eight minutes i guess but the goal is to take something you love something you know a lot about and just just talk discuss what you got from it as quickly as pithily as you can and just put it in the world and i get all sorts of nifty comments on the thread on youtube below it i don't have a lot of conversation on youtube but i get really nice comments back on this one and i've only done a couple five minute use but we could create a format where any of us who has a work a work that we're passionate about wants to express it in a pithy form and we could pair up and do that we could do it as a conversation we could do it there's like a million a million different formats or forms for doing this but that i think if we lather rinse repeat on that we get through our our our crystallization of how the world works i think a little a little more quickly perhaps then uh second thing is i will just go here to um when i read a book that i really like or see a tedx talk that i really like i debrief it into my brain and part of the reason we're here is that i've been using this thing for 22 years but here's a really nice tedx talk by jason roberts who is the founder of better block uh and it's an exciting talk and so here's three steps to a better block um he says give it a name that gives it life set a date and publish it blackmail yourself show up if you don't uh some she will and she hates everything and his talk is really cute and really fun um and i put three steps to a better block under enumerated wisdom which is one of my favorite link you know thoughts in my entire brain but partly what i'm saying here is i'm sitting here trying to curate the nuggets the shiny nuggets of interesting things that i'm getting from everything i hit right from every piece of media whether it's a movie a documentary a ted talk a book a really great blog post and and and then so uh you know best trump if i just do best articles about trump i will uh i'll get it i think i have several now but uh here's best articles about trump's win for example so um these are a whole bunch of articles here's people and systems who predicted the trump victory and i've connected it to michael moore uh mark blive david betris richard rorty these were all people who figured out that scott adam's the writer of dillbert right all people who figured out trump was going to win somehow before he won but sharing and and i wish more of us were sharing the information in this fashion and i'm not sure what that means but but part of what i'd love to build with you all as open global mind is the capacity to do that so that we can speak to each other visually connectedly so that um uh judy you love to talk about hyphae and sort of the dendritic the dendritic networks that that's exactly what i wish i had at hand so that as i'm busy sending little hyphae out to meet up with other people's ideas we're actually talking together in a medium with a medium right and i i don't know what that thing looks like exactly i've got i've got a taste of it because i'm in this proprietary tool called the brain but man i'm just dying for the next tool and i think we have the capacity to experiment our way toward that and i think that that will offer a kind of structure so then two other things i wrote in here roles and gills and when we were brainstorming how to organize ogm one of the fun things that came up was um hey uh we should sort of maybe organize ourselves run guilds and two guilds stand out two guilds stand out right away um so um story threaders and map whisperers and these are just playful starting starting point names the story threaders we had a whole call about a couple weeks ago which is a concept that's sort of like graphic facilitation but different from and story threading is is bringing talented people in to express the nuggets that they find in an event or a meeting and then thread a story through them using whatever their skills are so maybe they create a graphic novel maybe they do a documentary film series maybe something else map whisperers is actually i did some work with christina bowen and several of you charles and lauren with a few others um and we were coming together around mappers like people who love mapping and are skilled at using the mapping tools and i think that would that would be a really fun guild to start inside of ogm so that if you're a mapper and you know i'm a black belt using the brain but i'm terrible at most of the other tools i'm just not not capable but other people in this room are really skilled at a whole bunch of tools how do we work together as a guild and then go get hired for doing mapping in different ways for companies because there's a total business here like there's no reason this is not a business same thing for story threaders that's a role that companies should be paying for as story threaders go in and do their work so guilds can actually be sort of like guilds without the restraint of trade and the the horrible practices that some guilds engaged in back in the age of guilds but the nice thing about guilds is that um uh advanced members and guilds are meant to protect and bring up and treat and teach the younger members of guilds so for example how do map whisperers bring young people in who are like i'm all excited about visualization okay great we have a process where you can see what the set of tools are we have skills building we have whatever else and the guild is kind of in charge of that and then on roles roles are not the same as guilds the one role that really stands out to me is the role of builder because some of us in ogm just want to make things we love getting things done we're either good at project management or coding or whatever and we don't have a strong feeling for what the visualization should look like or you know what kind of ontology to use that that's not our thing but our thing is making stuff and we'd like to make stuff that's meaningful and that serves some interesting higher purpose and i think we have an opportunity here to connect builders to projects and how we do that is is interesting i created a website in the old google sites i created a website for something i called rex lab which had this process and i can maybe on a on a future call i can give people a guided tour or i could record one on video i just pass it to the list but rex lab had kind of i called it a hiring hall for the next millennium where people would come in members of guilds or something like that and then projects would float up on the big board and you could go talk to the people who were in the projects and there was a definition of what is a project and there were stages each project might have its own different business model a whole bunch of stuff that i think would make claus and abby happy because because i think it would smell like that some piece of what you're looking for for a structure for how do we what is a project how do we how do we organize it and structure it so i could go back and pick up some of those pieces or we could reinvent it here in different ways and then the last thing is and we're getting close to the end of our call i should give everybody a really quick guided tour of the forum of the discourse board that peeps set up just so that everybody's kind of seen it i sent an email invite to the ogm list last late last night if you follow that link and if somebody wants to find that and put the put the link in here charles i haven't done the video of rex lab yet but i can invite you into rex lab to look around to the google site so i'll do that um i'll post the link to the ogm list if anybody wants to come look at it and it's sort of it's a composite of spreadsheets and descriptions and pages and it's sort of work that i never really jumped in and started using it um neil go ahead just one one quick addition to your story thrillers and map whispers and i also heard you mention christina bowen so i'd like to touch base with you about how to reconnect with her i haven't seen it for a few years the um one of the things i was playing was the term called keynote listening as opposed to keynote speaking and so one of the issues of turning this into action and this is something that i can do in real time is with a real group can sense into and feel when there's the aha moment and how to join the differences in the room and in real communities that's critical to whatever is that they think is the biggest issue that needs to be solved having multiple roles and i love the role you play here jerry is moderator mediator um you know the holder of the brain um curator and so on and you're playing part of this role of keynote listener but the keynote listeners role is to lift the collective understanding to a new level than what started what it started at by injecting or dropping in a card at the right moment throw another pebble in the pond disrupting coherence compassionately finding ways of gently shaking up not breaking the pattern but shaking up the pattern a little bit so things can go oh hang on i hadn't seen it that way the the role of the keynote listener uh and this is something that's evolving for me is to sense into how come there's two or three or four different perspectives in the room and how do i get them to see each other and themselves in this emerging systems context and so it's something that's very hard to to get paid for yet uh i i have gate crashed conferences and had applause from the audience um and this frustrates then of course the gatekeepers and the institution holders who think they're already doing it and so i think this is tapping into the emergent wisdom that is crying out for leadership which is coming from a different level of flow than what is being allowed by the structure so you need the structure and to be able to dance around it and you need people that can both thread the story of what's just been done but also to sense into what wants to be born to be able to throw it in there without attachment to outcome to see what comes up next to be able to hold the explosion in the container and then gently put it back together again in a way that everybody goes how the hell did we get here wow aren't we amazing and so they have to recognize that we just did that and that is the collective wisdom which i believe is inherent in almost every group i go into provided the gatekeepers don't prevent it bing um so i have been in the situation you just described several times and i'm a reasonably competent facilitator but i was tapped out on skills i was like oh crap i know that there's a moment here and i didn't know how to intervene to catalyze the moment to take it through a process like you were just describing and i actually searched around the inner tubes i was like what would i take you know what whose course would i take uh and there's a there's a couple interesting interesting groups out there that are doing group facilitation and a bunch of other things but i ended up not going to anything because i really couldn't find out where where to level up in that way so i think i think i'm completely on board with what you're saying um hey jerry go for it man you know just to jump in here you know one of the things that i like to do and you guys have kind of known is i like to build you know build models of of things right and neil this is this is a little bit and i'd love to build this out and also to continue to think at the framework and philosophy level of this stuff these are just ways of expressing but this this is what you're talking about right as a facilitator how do you frame something how do you create the structure on the edges how do you then focus the energy in the work what information do you bring in how do you ask really good questions how do you acknowledge people in a way that invites their voice in confirm your understanding help to clarify those on you know that understanding to connect then disparate pieces of information into higher systems where you then sys sys synthesize them into those elevated places and and i think that there are techniques that i've when i've watched great facilitators and learn from other facilitators because this is kind of what we do to to to learn these skills and i think you know creating these universities where there's a new generation of people that are learning a new type of skill which is really about this integration of lots of disparate point in the system thinking skills i think that's where we need to go so i will i'll record something on this just so you can see how where i'm at it's you know again it's one you know one person's experience but i'm that's why i believe that we have to get into the do space we also have to get into to you know kind of the philosophy space and we have to we have to build this container um and and so there's a lot of work to do on a lot of levels and i think everyone has room you know you know in this but um yeah i'm excited i'm excited about where this conversation is going i'm claus than me to do a quick tour of the discourse forum yeah just just a word of caution or so i might my experience with these systems design was in a project with gene actually on kumo and we developed a systems map of what is what constitutes a local food system and i found myself completely overwhelmed even trying to get into the software now because i'm really working at the edge of my capacity and so but in that meeting was a guy brian who was phenomenal on the software kumo and he ended up modeling something that actually pushed the software beyond what it had been able to do before but my role really was subject matter expert in giving input and responding to these questions so it is a little bit intimidating to think that you have to pick up yet another skill and uh because i mean obviously everyone here has worked for years on these things you don't just pick that up and and do anything meaningful with it so well i i think if we get if we can get guilds full of people who are really good at map whispering make believe that that's a term then you don't have to become an expert in it you're the con you know the domain expert and you pair up with somebody who's really good at drawing the maps and and if we're really really lucky then the maps are more public than they would be they're not a private project but they're out in the world and they become objects that people talk about instead of just infographics or whatever right that that we that we actually start to debate negotiate improve systems diagrams of how things are working and we we float queries we use we use those those diagrams as part of our inquiry into how to fix things that would be a lovely thing and i agree that most of these are just way too complicated once you see the pie as it got baked it's like wow pretty overwhelming and gene is really good at sort of opening it up step by step so that you see first this then this then you add this then the bell the bell goes over here and all of a sudden you're like oh okay i'm kind of grooving with this so we have lots to talk about on this let me do a really quick screen share to take us into the forum just so you can see what categories i set up at the beginning just to start with so basically there's an introductions bin and so far steven kreuzer is i think the only person who's sort of logged in and gone and posted a couple things which is great so that's pete and that's me just messing with the system but there's an introductions thread let me just go to it and here's here is what he wrote oops it's up here there we go so i had posed a question in the intro basically in the in the introduction section to the introductions thread i said where are you what is your main gig can you share your linkedin link and he basically went through and answered all the questions beautifully and kind of took us already into having introductions so let me let me then go back up to the main menu because i just want to point to what these things are the sandbox is just a sort of a place of moratorium where if you don't know where to put something put it here it's meant to be sort of playful but it's meant to be if none of these other things make sense go here if you need help figuring out your way around go to help and ask your question and then there's kind of three big big buckets here designing the system bringing ogm out to the world and big questions designing the system is the tools for visualization debate discourse bridging the cultural divide how might we create business models what does it mean for a business to hire us to do something what do we call this thing what does it look like branding and then meta is more about about the structure of these systems and how you know how do we build what we're building building bringing ogm to the world is the one i mentioned before action doing things now is a thread basically for and we can go from this conversation i think we have a couple of things we can start posting to action doing things now onboarding is what how do we help people just fresh into ogm find their way to the places where they would like to learn more and contribute and meet people and then outreach is different outreach is i'm envisioning that ogm over time and probably pretty quickly starts connecting itself to ogm neighbor communities and i have a thought of course in my brain where i've been collecting up ogm neighbor communities which are you know demos Helsinki deep adaptation fiskit free and liber open knowledge collective intelligence people that's a that's actually a big big category here's chico lab right chico labs already already in in the house but this is basically a large list of communities what does it mean to reach out to them we don't want all their members coming into ogm we want to build a bridge and then figure out how we can be useful to them and how they fit in the hole i think and i'm just starting to figure out what that means but that's a that's an important piece of what ogm could do i think and then the big questions are you know there's a whole bunch of enthusiasts and experts in systems thinking here there's a bunch of people who really care deeply about the philosophy i care about redesigning everything so i actually have a i actually have rethinking so for example rethinking the social contract i have a thought just rethinking with an ellipsis and then underneath it uh rethinking education rethinking media rethinking money rethinking ownership rethinking management all these kinds of things so so and my design from trust concept is the way of rethinking these things i'm happy to go into that more but i created a thread for that kind of conversation and then the under big questions you know what aspirations do we have for ogm and for our own work and i have a thought in my brain ogm effects if we succeed if we succeed we might help invent the next communications medium right because right now we're right now we're at the same stage that early movies were where they put a movie camera on a tripod in front of a theater stage because everybody understood theater and then later they evolved the language of cinema that we know today right um we're at the same stupid stage with all these power tools and you know instead of using power tools with each other to share memory and and build collective wisdom we're sitting in little rectangles on zoom kind of isolated from each other sharing links on a chat which seems to me kind of impoverished compared to where we could be so um everybody's got an invite if you go to the ogm list there's a an invite that'll get you into the forum please sign up jump in go wherever you want the idea of this high level sort of major topics and subtopics is to give people a quick way to see where their topic might fit if you think that there's a topic that doesn't fit any place write it in the sandbox or somewhere else or in the um basically designing this you can write it in meta and then we'll put in some new topics and do whatever else and i think that you know users basically graduate up they start in discourse as a without a lot of power but as they post and stuff like that they they go up in uh responsibility and trust levels kind of so i i don't really know how to use discourse that well yet but i will stop because we are a minute from 90 minutes and i'd love to um to stop but i'd also love to hear what anybody thinks does that smell okay is it um what you think oh thanks Pete there's the link there's the link to um the discourse uh and basically just sign in we've said it for the first week or so we've said it so that anybody clicking on create create an account can just do that probably later uh we will make it so that sys admins have to approve anybody coming into the into the group but right now it's just you so come on down charles smells all right uh and it's a threaded discussion board right it's you've seen this technology before this is a particularly good one um but i think this will give us a lot more dimensionality to our conversations than the google group does what about the google group is there anything to say about that the way the threads have been sort of sprawling and i mean i have i think maybe everyone or most of us have got kind of swamped with the volume and also for myself i've i've commented a little bit engaged a little bit around the slippiness of subject lines and things i don't want to say too much now but no that's okay i mean it's really hard to enforce thread discipline on a mailing list it's just not everybody's familiar with you know creating a new subject start in fact i think a whole bunch of people didn't know how to start a new topic on the list which is just send an email to open global mind at googlegroups.com and that's your new subject header is in fact a new topic but i think a lot of people didn't know that so partly i want to move much of our conversation over into discourse pete is in favor i think of euthanizing the google group i like google groups and i kind of want to keep it for just the high level here's what's up and i i'm not a great threaded discussion participant it takes me forever to catch up with things i whenever i have to write thoughtful replies to things it takes me forever and then they stack up so so i'm i'm open for suggestions on what to do with all these all these moving parts if you don't kill it you should make it uh announce only or something yeah this is my my opinion other thoughts kind of appreciate getting getting in my inbox but my inbox is kind of in many ways about cause anyway but then when you want to i mean a peregoji group is maybe a kind of parallel that's a google forum that is also sometimes high volume and and there's it's really rich and and it it it does drift from subject lines and things um i don't know who else cares as much as me or more than me about possibly about these subject line things but i think there's one little little example i want to offer here if i can do it efficiently which which happened when i did try to jump in the pool and swim a little bit which was simply in a longish thread um you know some people just respond to places higher up in the thread and then it cuts out a big chunk that you thought you were responding to because you read it and it was in there in the thread somewhere but then it wasn't in the response and it just it gets messy really quickly so Charles this should be fixed if we go over to discourse it should be yeah so i totally agree with you mailing lists are messy for any kind of deep conversation so hopefully having a bit more structure and by the way we could use two kinds of people for the discourse setup one is a sys admin of some sort because right now it's Pete me and Hank i think and it'd be really nice to have one or two other people who like the technical side of it in case something breaks or he's not available or whatever and then we also could use a couple of hosts basically people who can welcome route answer some questions do a bunch of things that that help uh and and in particular given what you were just saying Charles make sure that the the titles and the threads are more or less consistent with what's going on in the in the conversations hopefully the host can have end up ever just do what i'm looking for um Charles by the way the discourse functionality includes email so i think everybody in this initial phase gets set up with email digest once per day you should be able to go and we haven't played around with the email much yet but um you should be able to keep yourself pretty well informed about what's going on with the discourse just in your inbox and then you know jump over when when needed yeah i'm not like huge on always we've been often reading all that but i like to have it as a kind of backup archive and it's there and it's searchable so thanks cool a little um a little infrastructure note too we're running discourse the open source version and all the all the archives are stored where we can get to them i we should be able to export them or whatever if anybody ever wanted to get a feed of the you know all of the everything we could we could arrange that so that it's not just the the intent of i think what we're doing with discourse jerry correct me if i'm wrong is to build what's going to be a public archive not you know not a closed thing i would like ogm to be as public as we can be so make resources available to everybody else when we build something put it in public view all of that exactly nil go ahead i was just going to say that i'm reminded in these conversations about the difference between stocks and flows and the ogm is a massive stock it's a big library um and the flows you know how much we drip feed or irrigate into particular areas versus how much of the stream do we get flowing in a particular direction do we choose to jump into that stream or not you need somebody that with a different perspective that can actually be orchestrating that to some extent so that you know if we came and said hey jerry we're deep in this in this stream here we can't get out what are the best resources on and you go bang right and then you've got this tree of potential options to come in but i think to me what i'm sensing is is a differentiation here of the technical role from the curating role from the storing role from the flowing role from the engaging role and each of those is going to require a different mix and a different ratio depending on the context you're actually trying to apply it to is this just a philosophical discussion in which case let's stay high level or are we actually trying to bring this to a real live you know situation right now to provide frontline troops in Oregon with what's going on in the streets or something so how do we uh orchestrate that with a sort of a a crow's nest style function that isn't necessarily steering that is providing direction to where are the resources you need next because you know you've got them and at the moment jerry you are the critical linchpin link i sense in knowing intuitively oh you need to talk to and you're going to find this so uh i know i think it was gill friend was talking last time about there's overlapping guilds and overlapping networks here and we don't know who's who and how that fits how do we do that in a way that whether the administration doesn't kill us but it actually enhances what we're trying to do in flow right and in my experience mostly if you can set up some initial ground rules and get people to come in and start setting up a pattern that a lot of these lists can be self-policing they can sort of uh maintain themselves a bunch and then roles will emerge that we need right hey it feels like we could really use somebody who's doing this kind of activity and or somebody will just show up and say gosh i really love doing this kind of activity and we'll be like awesome want to make it a little bit more official or whatever and then i use stocks and flows constantly to try to illustrate for people why the brain matters and basically my one minute riff is we're drowning in flows every tool we have is is all only flow uh instagram pinterest your facebook feed your email your texting you name it and and and slack and all that are meant to sort of reduce the flow but they kind of increase the flow because now you have a new channel to check and with discourse we've just given you a new channel to check and that's all flow and if you miss something that goes by on the stream you often don't know it even exists stocks the only two good tools i've ever seen for stocks are wikis and the brain and everything else is is flow or doesn't really seem to work i haven't found highly functional things and wikipedia unfortunately ate the wiki space i think pete and ian maybe many other people on the on the call here were really quite certain 15 years ago that we would all be writing documents with each other in wikis pete you were right you were you were certain that was going to happen i was certain that was going to happen right um and we're not we're using google docs basically which and if you added just a little we functionality the google docs you'd have a distributed wiki but they but they haven't right there's actually a website called you need a wiki ynaw that absorbs your google docs account and turns it into more of a wiki um but the problem is we don't have these static bases of of shareable information and we need them and and and sorry just a little to put a punctuation on the thought my own theory of why everything is flow and nothing is stock is the copyright industries that um basically owners of content don't want us creating stocks they don't want us copying their stuff they don't want us remixing it they don't want us storing it they don't want us serving it up to others so every time some new technology showed up they darken the sky with lawyers right the cassette tape shows up ah it's going to destroy music etc etc you some of you probably heard this history so part of the reason we were driven only to flow tools is the legal threats from from storing and oversharing um but now but now we have no habit of of curating and sharing go ahead just have one little quick follow-up question forgive me um i was referring to flows as in flows of consciousness flows of collective learning not flows of materials just passing under the bridge um when you're in the stream you need to have an injection at the right concentration of the right stuff at the right time to make something happen and so if that's not available you need to be able to reach out not go out and get it yourself because you're actually holding space for what's happening and so you need somebody who's actually watching you in the stream and says hey i see your hand waving like you're doing here right now see your hand waving here's a perfect resource you drop it in front of me in the stream i swim to it and go thank god and i go hey look what jerry just gave me right and just i'll finish on this because i know i've been taking a lot of time um peer to peer and uh michelle bowens i'm not sure if you're aware of of that network and if you are connected because another massive curated wiki uh building collaborative processes i've been in conversation with him and he's looking for how to do similar sorts of things to what you're doing so how do we start to coordinate these massively complicated uh elements of detailed deep dive information in ways that actually makes the differences that we know we can make if we can get them into real communities so i have a thought called ogm test pilots kind of like chuck jagers and these are people who might not want to play in here but i would love to see if whatever we develop would be useful to them or make them happy or you know give them superpower so i have michelle whom i've known for a long time and i think it's awesome and it's peer to peer foundation wiki all in here uh so yes totally agree with you uh quick note on discourse uh the the initial setup that we've got is really meant to absorb i think the the google group and give us more space to to go into it and converse um one of the interesting discourse features is uh shared editing of posts so you can make kind of a wiki light with discourse posts i don't think we're going to start off with that but even maybe in a few weeks we'll kind of set it up so that we can also have you know a resource section that's shared and editable by by folks um longer term uh once we once we collectively get better at discourse i can also imagine ogm helping uh either daughter organizations or sibling organizations setting up similar discourse instances um you know same but different kind of thing uh so hopefully hopefully the infrastructure work we're doing with discourse is going to be useful just for us working together um and then it will also um we'll be able to reap some benefits and in kind of enhanced functionality and similar things for more people useful in the future so one of the action things we could easily do now is we could co-author posts we could create videos together i mean i'm a huge fan of the Lincoln project i think they're just knocking it out of the park for how to get under trump's skin and and maybe convert some conservatives to not vote or something i don't know but but we could create media we could do a bunch of different things like that and we could use um the platform to start you know to start offering those but then i've already created a medium channel for us if we want there's a linkedin group for us if we want and those are all places where we can find more more audience more people more uh get the word out we should wrap this call we've been going for really really long time i completely appreciate your all being here pete thank you so much for for magically whipping into being this this discourse instance um dive on in there everybody and let's uh go in and start talking in a more organized way and also thinking about what the future of ojanas so thank you very much and let's be careful out there awesome bye bye bye bye everybody