 Hello everyone and welcome back to another special edition of a podcast brought to you by the Falcons podcast network I'm Tori McLeanie. I'm joined by defensive coordinator Dean peas and I Want to start the podcast off by saying that I think that we maybe have found a name or perhaps figured out a name for this Special edition podcast and I wanted to run it by you before we made anything official. We were thinking peas in a pod I Think that's fantastic. I love a good pun I love a good word play and our digital team was like we think this works. Do you like that? That's whatever you guys like. Okay. I'm fine. Okay fantastic because we were like peas in a pod It just makes sense and like with the podcast we're good So if you didn't join us for the very first episode Go back and listen to it because we talked a lot about coaches history getting into the game at the high school level and then on to college But today we're actually gonna move into you and your career making the jump to the professional league You did so around the 2000s, which is a time of Horrible fashion, but otherwise great football now. I I wanted to start off, you know You were the head coach at Kent State and then you go to the New England Patriots at the turn of the the 2000s For you, why did you want to make the jump from? college to professional Well, you know in all honesty Sorry, I don't know that I did want to it's kind of like when I left high school and went to college. I didn't really Go to college going. Okay. This is what I want to do. I want to get out of high school coaching go to college The situation presented itself that I could go to a college and Try it and if I didn't like it, I thought I'll go back to high school football and So it's kind of the same thing happened with the NFL I'd been the head coach at Kent for six years things were starting to move in the right direction over there and Then all of a sudden I had an opportunity from coach Belichick Called and said, you know, I got this opening on my staff. Are you interested in all honesty? I kind of before I wasn't as interested because I Had with with six kids we had kids in college All the time and it was kind of nice because most of them went to the college that I was coaching for and so it was kind of nice that I was around right and so but then all of a sudden were empty nesters and and Able to kind of pick up and go And I thought okay. Well now's the time to do it. If I don't like it I'll go back to college. I've never tried it. So, you know, I mean, it's a little later in my career For most coaches, I mean I'd already been coaching 30 years right when I go to the NFL Yeah, so I said hey, let's see what it's like. Yeah, I don't know what it's like I hear rumors of what it's like and And Well, let's give it a shot and obviously being with New England at that point in time wasn't a bad choice No, so I thought I got an opportunity here Talked it over with my wife. Let's do it and That's what started the NFL career. What was kind of the Initial, I don't know what the work cult like culture shock of making the jump from college to professional coaching Because I feel like there's a jump from that like there's a there's differences from the high school level to the college level And I'm sure there's differences between the college level to the professional level for you kind of what was initially that Aha moment. I'm in the NFL Well, there's some times I still pinch myself after 50 years and how did we ever get here? I'm from Elmore to high school in Ohio, but you know, I think that's that's the I Think that's the approach you don't want to take as a coach is That I don't think I coached in college any different than I coached in high school. At least I hope I didn't I hope that if if somebody walked in that was on my high school team or one of my college teams and Watched me coach today. They would say, yeah, that's the same guy that coached me because I coach them the same way And like we talked about the other day about teaching and learning and everybody learns at a different rate Well, just because a guy has now become a pro Well, just two months earlier. He wasn't a pro our rookies were in college You know six months ago, right? And so they didn't all of a sudden transform into a professional athlete in six months They're still the same guys that were in college six months ago So don't I need to really approach them the same way and same way with college kids They were just in high school, you know, and I think if you approach it that way You hear you just you teach don't assume that because the guy's a pro. Okay. Well boy. He is a he knows all this stuff He doesn't he's an elite athlete because he's reached the next level He's one of those 2% guys that makes it But that doesn't mean that he doesn't learn the same way that all the other guys learned It doesn't mean that you still shouldn't coach him the same way and tell him Here's how you'd like to have it done and also get back his feedback now as guys become season pros And they've been in the league for six eight years They've seen the game from a different view than you've seen it as a coach. They've played it You've coached it, you know how you see it on film may not be how they see it on it So you get you start at getting more input from them. I've I've told I Told all of our players and I told the coaches I've learned more football from players sometimes than I have from other coaches because they see it. They played it They did it, you know and and it makes sense to them then and so You got to see it from their eyes So I don't think that There was a moment. I really went in To New England even though they were you know at the top of their game and I'm walking in there And I'm coaching for linebackers. I'm coaching Teddy Bruce key Willie McGinnis Mike Brable Guy named Ted Johnson these guys. I mean junior sale. I mean the names that I got I Really felt like okay I need to be the same guy up in the front of the linebacker room because I wasn't the coordinator at first I was two years linebacker right before I became a coordinator I need to be the same guy in front of that room that I was as a college coach and I was and so I approached it No different. I didn't assume they knew anything I just did it and they didn't look at me like come on. Don't you know who you're talking to it? Not at all You'd be shocked. It's like guys always talk about well What was it like to coach Ray Lewis, you know, Ray Lewis wanted to be coach now Did he know a lot about the game? Absolutely guy played forever and was great at what he did But he also didn't want you to be a guy just hey go do what you need to do He wanted you to tell him. This is what we need to do. This is how we need to do it He may have it. He may come back at me and say to me. Well, you know, I've done it this way What do you think about that and that's great right great Jarrett does that? I mean all the good ones do that They want to still be coached It's just from a coach's perspective Maybe in high school. I didn't listen to somebody want to do it their way because I knew they didn't know this guy I do listen to him because they've done it, but like the rookies There's still college guys to me I really like how you're talking about getting input from these guys guys like Ray Lewis guys like greaty Jarrett now and I know that the signal signal callers meeting that you do on Wednesdays. Yes Wednesdays When did you start doing that and and was that in kind of an extension of wanting to get these players input on the game that they're playing? Well, really It really I didn't start it until I got the Baltimore. Okay. I did not do it at New England but the idea came from New England because it was it was I Remember going back one time and talking to Like I had coached with in college and he asked me what's it like coaching at New England coaching in the NFL? Hmm. I said, you know what? Coaching the guys at New England were like coaching coaches that know how to play that can still play Because they're very knowledgeable and they see things and they can make adjustments and they can tell you then I'll go Why did you do that? Well, that's how you learn that as a coach. Well, that sounds pretty good So I started thinking you know you need with all that expertise out there on the field Then you need to bring that Into a meeting and so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna give you guys my game plan first and see what you guys think and You can tell by body language, you know if somebody's sitting there kind of like this, then you know, okay That's he's not buying it. Yeah, so I thought Why not do that and then the other thing is you those guys are kind of your team leaders, right? And so if you take one from each group and and some guys like last year I brought in a couple guys who are young because I wanted to be with the older guys because I want them to assume that role in the Future and so it wasn't so much. I was looking for input for them I wanted them to see how other guys gave me input so they will end up being that in the future and the thing of it is is that If you're standing up in front of a group And you got four guys out there who are you're probably your top players or your top leaders and they're sitting there And not in their head. Yes. What do you think the guy next to him's gonna do? He's gonna not yeah, I agree That must be good now if they're sitting there going boy, I don't know about that That's not gonna breed confidence in the guys that are sitting next to him We need all 11 believing in what we're doing. So, you know, it's like anything else You if you take the top guys and you make them believe the other guys are gonna follow. Yeah when it comes to I Guess your time with the Patriots. I know we talked a little bit about it yesterday and how it was almost like just go in and Don't mess it up. I just don't mess anything up. Um, how did you kind of? Evolve as as a when you did become the defensive coordinator How did you evolve as as a coordinator during that time? well, I think I had been a coordinator for Majority of my life in high school and college. So I knew what was like having the responsibility to be in the coordinator But you know, I listened to Romeo Cornell who was the coordinator When I was there at at New England and I just kind of watched him and stuff And you know, you always have your own way of doing things and your own stuff And I will say this about coach Belichick. He was very Good at letting you do your thing now He was still within the parameters of what he wanted to do He's still the head coach But I'm saying it wasn't so rigid about you got to do it this way and you got to act this way He lets you be you which is how successful coaches should be nobody should start I've seen guys back in the day try to be Bo Schembeckler as college coach There's only one Bo Schembeckler. There was only one Woody Hayes. There's only one Bill Belichick. There's only one Nick Saban They are who they are don't be them. Yeah, be yourself Yeah, you can take things from them But don't but but be yourself and that's why I just feel sorry that I just have always thought that and You know just it's kind of funny how things evolve like I'll give you an example to like for example, but my wife in College, you know, I told you that we had all the players come over to our house and have dinner well also She used to make brownies and cookies and stuff for the college players all the time She'd even that's there'd been some time she brought popsicles out the practice. I'm really They love them. Oh, I'm sure they absolutely Come on really and she did it and They loved it so we go to New England and All of a sudden she's making brownies for me to take in on Saturdays when we had our kind of last day a walk-through before the game And I want really mean you guys are grown men Really They fought over And she did the same thing a Baltimore does the same thing here in Atlanta And it's amazing how like if she's gone and I don't bring a man. It's like what what's up? Where's the brownie? Yeah, and we had guys at Baltimore used to tell on each other and they'd go to her and say You know this guy took two brownies instead. Well, I mean it's like I go there It just shows you though that They're still Young men. Yeah, they're not They haven't been seasoned and they aren't 40 and 50 year old guys that have been seasoned. They're still young men Yeah, and they still want to be treated like that and special and I you know I've always admired her for doing all that stuff and she's so involved in it But that was kind of a it kind of plays into what you're talking about is just Don't treat them any different. Right. Yeah, I think it becomes and I think it's something that we've talked about before But it becomes disingenuous and you want genuine people around you It's something that I always said in my job. It's like I Want to present who these people are as people. It's what I think it's so easy for people to watch these professional athletes and see them You know with their helmets on and see them doing these amazing athletic Feets but to actually know that there's a person underneath the helmet and there's a person There who is a genuine person who want who has goals and ambitions and dreams and families and friends That's always been something that I've like carried into my job And I feel like that's very much something that as a coach. It's like, you know these players as Good as anybody and it's always kind of like I don't know making sure that you're the last Point of defense like no one's getting to these players. These are my guys Is that always I know you've talked so much in Press conferences and everything about loving your players and that's why you do this But for you is that kind of how you see your role even as a coordinator of now almost 50 years Yeah, it's I think it's just The more you know people care about you the more you're gonna do for them. You want to satisfy them It's like parents, you know parents love you and so you want it you you want to make them proud of you Okay, well players are kind of the same way to me two coaches I wanted to make my coaches proud of me and but You know it's something as simple as even in society of working with somebody and knowing their name Mm-hmm and doesn't matter what their job is And it could be a custodian or something it but it's just like how would you feel like it is how much different is Oh in the press conference when I say yes Tori Rather than go. Yeah. Yeah, like you don't sure. I know your name How much different does it make to you when I call you by name and say your name? It's respect. Yes 100 and and so it's like you're doing your job. I respect you doing your job I know your name. I've taken some kind of interest in the fact that I've learned your name Well, it's that way with players. It's just more dynamic. Yeah I also want to go back to you're talking about your wife And I know the life of a coach's wife is a very interesting one to lead How has she been your partner in these 50 years? Well, I think the thing with Mel is the fact that she has taken an interest in my job and not just made it My job off over here and I got my own thing. Yes, she has her own thing but She's made that part of her interest to getting to know the players getting to know About the job and that kind of stuff She even gives me advice on calls sometimes, but you know, how much do you actually take into account? Do you really I'm not saying you might listen to this So the truth of it is though, she's taken it's it's I'm so lucky To have her because she is taking such an interest in my job Right and like I say whether it's doing the brownies the pops though, whatever that is But it's the other thing is it's all of our kids our grandkids, you know In all three Super Bowls, we've taken our entire family to the Super Bowl We took 26 people to the last Super Bowl. She even took a couple babysitters But it's it's all the kids too. All of our kids have done their part. I mean they've all Taken off one jersey and put on a new one and that's who they root for and I can remember the year I retired and one of the grandkids said one my daughter says Who do we root for now? It didn't really hit me until he said that like They're the grandkids are part of everybody's a part of this job and if you don't make it that way Then I think it becomes a job, right? It becomes more cumbersome. Well, we got to move we got to do this We got to do that, you know Dad's gone, you know, whatever. I think they've all taken such an interest in it because there's there's good sides and bad sides to every profession Right, I mean military people move all over the country. There's there's But the good side is is that they've been around some incredible incredible Athletes and players and people yeah and seen them as people not just as this professional guy That's on TV. They understand that that guy is just like the rest of us and wants to be treated like the rest of us So I think for the family and especially for my wife. She's taken such an interest and a part in it Has been a blessing for me. Yeah, you talk about Kind of getting to know people and someone who I have not had the pleasure of getting to know is Bill Belichick And I feel like the perception of Bill Belichick is very different perhaps in the person of Bill Belichick So I was just curious for you. You've worked with him. You worked with him for years Kind of who who is this guy and and what's kind of some stories of of who he he was as a head coach To catch under well, I think the thing about Bill is is that All the guys that That I've been around so many successful guys with him Lou holds Nick Saban all those guys They all have one thing in common. They're all very attention to detail. They're their work ethic is just Unquestionable. I mean it's remarkable Bill's just is you know People want I don't know what people really leave with him All I can do is I can see those guys from the perspective that I see them And they're they're good bosses when they need to be a boss and they're good friends when they need to be a friend It's the best way I can tell you it's they're all personalities are different Some are more vivacious than the other ones some are very much more, you know Dude, right? But All of them including Bill He when we're at work. He's the boss And it's his program and he's gonna run it his way and it's obviously worked very very well Yeah, than anybody else has ever done. Yeah But when he's away from that he's a good friend and It's not like all of a sudden he's gonna change his personality from the media He's he's he's guarded in some ways with the media because he's He doesn't let information out. Yeah Can you respect that and that's the way but he's not gonna be one of these guys gonna stand up there and tell a bunch of jokes and be You know boy really what a what a personality this guy is that's not what he wants to be But he's also not that way as a person, but he is a good friend and a really good person I can tell you that he treated me my family and all of us With the utmost respect and that's why he's very loyal to him And I am to Nick and I was the coach Holts and and they all have treated my family Great. Mm-hmm. I love that Now I want to get into your years at Baltimore and making the move from the Patriots to the Ravens for you what intrigued you about Heading to Baltimore and to begin with almost every job I've ever taken has been about people Yeah, you know, I've always told you I didn't I've never really interviewed for a job. Yeah, only one, right? Right one one interview. Yeah, and so Because people Said something to some other person that got that and that person called me and offered me a job Sometimes I hadn't even met the guys. I'd never met Nick Saban. I'd never met Elliot user like a Navy I'd never met those guys And so I get these calls. I'd never met Lou Holt So people it's still a people business That's why I try to get away from I get off on a tangent on analytics and stuff because it's not a computer game It's not mad in football. It still is dealing with people just like we talk about the players treat them like people Not like an object out there playing football. Well, it's the same thing, you know going back is just that you know going to New England was It's are going from New England to Baltimore. Excuse me with about John Harbaugh John Harbaugh played for me in college So what a unique situation to go Coach for a guy that you once coached. Yeah, I think the world of John Harbaugh I thought the world of him as a player. I knew his dad. I knew his family and so You know, he was having success at Baltimore, but he was a young coach I think it was only like it's maybe third year. I think when I went there and he offered me a job and I thought You know what? Yeah, I'm gonna do it I'm gonna go work for this guy plus there's a couple other guys in the staff that I knew really well One of them was just a great friend who was actually the coordinator at the time And he wanted me to come be his linebacker coach and I thought you know what good transition I need a little change up here. I've been in New England for six years. So I went to Baltimore Two years later. I became a coordinator, but it was a unique situation coach them for John Having him once been my player. How do you how did you balance that in your head to kind of be like this is now? My head coach. I was once his coach. He's now my coach. He's my boss. Yeah, you know, and I Mean he was he was my boss and so I'm gonna do what he wants to do, but I knew that he had Enough faith in me. He evidently must have liked me enough as a coach to have me want to go coach for him. So It was a matter of Well, you know, it just it was an open dial. It was easy It really really was easy to talk to John but always remembering this guy is now my he's my boss and What he says we're gonna do and we're all gonna do it together and we're gonna I can disagree But when at the end of the day, whatever he wants is what we're doing and I'm gonna be totally on board It's just like what I went to Tennessee and coach for Mike Brable Yes, he was a former player of mine at New England and he used to yell at me all the time because I say What coach he go a Mike? Don't call me coach. I said, but you are coach just but I'm Mike you You were my coach, but you're now my coach. So and so it was hard for me to ever call him Mike Yeah, I I'm just so used to calling the head coach coach. Yeah, and I'd you know John I'd call him John once in a while, but a lot of times I just called him coach Harbaugh So great. So at Baltimore, I think that that Super Bowl winning year was a very I mean if you go back and you look at that year for y'all It was such an interesting year, and I know you've talked about it before About how many players that y'all really didn't have access to in terms of like injuries or other things coming up I feel like and this is just me thinking from the outside looking in but it almost felt like that year for someone who's a coordinator had to have been a very Stressful but also maybe Rewarding year because you probably had to be more flexible because of the situation When you look back on that year and kind of how it unfolded even before you get to the Super Bowl Are you proud of kind of what you were able to do in terms of being able to even put a game plan together? Weekend and week out with all the turnover that was happening Well, I think it's a couple a couple things came out of that year is yeah You're proud of it. You're proud of the coaching staff in the job that everybody did and really really proud of the players because we had to adapt every week Yeah, people don't realize we didn't have Ray Lewis for ten weeks that year We didn't have Suggs for either six or eight weeks. I can't remember what it was but it was quite a while Well, those are two big parts of the puzzle to keep on winning So you had to change your game plan and then we went through a bunch of corners that year And so we had to change coverage almost every week in some ways. I think though Tori that that it was like It kept you so busy trying to think about what do we need to do to beat this team? How are we going to beat them that you almost it? Well, I don't know if it was a lot of stress because you were really just kind of more Focused on how we're going to do this and how where who do we put here and how do we do this now? We do that yeah, and I give the players so much credit because you know we change stuff every week to try to figure out how to win and They did it and so I give them the credit and the coaching staff the credit for doing that And then what happens is what was nice then when we made it to the playoffs all of a sudden We have Suggs and a fresh Ray Lewis back and we get on that four game run and win the Super Bowl. Yeah, so It was kind of fun though as a coach because it wasn't like okay Well, we're just so much better than everybody else we can just go out there and line up and just beat them You had to actually adapt But what it also taught me then as a coach. Well, if this is so good to do this Why shouldn't I continue to do it? Even when I do have good players, you know, I that's why you know Everybody talks about our system being so complex and we have so much. Yeah, it is But the good thing is is that if somebody gets hurt in the course of a game We have something else to go to what if you don't have something else to go to What if they keep running the same play and you can't stop it? What are you gonna say? Hey play it better? Well, at some point in time, they're they're probably playing it as best they can you can't stop it I need to have something to go to to stop it. I don't think you can be that vanilla and and it's also fun Yeah, it's also fun for the players and it's fun for the coaches your mind's working all the time It's not like okay. We're gonna go out and do the same thing We're just so much better than everybody else gonna do the same thing every week It's fun to think of things and new things and try them and and think them out and try to get them to work and It was a very very rewarding year Yeah I'm glad that you brought up the playbook your playbook because there was something that you said at the beginning of last season and I can't remember the exact quote so if I'm misquoting you definitely tell me but You said something along the lines of like only a certain percentage of the playbook had been installed at this point Because it was like I'm not gonna give guys things that they can't handle and then later in the season I think you were asked like well what percentages do you have installed now? And I think people probably thought on the outside looking in like oh 90% of the playbook But you said something along the lines of like 70% maybe and I found that so very interesting because I think a lot of times people think like you have a playbook You give them to the players and they have to know it completely by the time training camp starts or whenever But I feel like that's not necessarily the case and I would love to get your perspective on this because I think people When they heard like oh, he only has so much of the playbook installed What does that say about the players or what does that say about the team? I actually was like I think that's Purposeful and it's something that This team needed at this time for you when you're installing a playbook in Terms of percentages and how much you're installing. How does it change from team to team or even year to year? Well, it it it'll change a lot from year to year depending on how many new players you got and how many guys you got coming back And you got a bunch of guys coming back, you know now you can expand even more because they already know the first part of it the the playbook The way things are done is When we talk about ain't on percentages are arbitrary, I don't know if it was 60% or 70 I don't know what it was It's just is I don't know if you ever have all of it in but you you kind of you keep building on it The more you have a veteran team the more you can build on it the more you have a young team that doesn't For example, let's say you put in a coverage and those guys need to perfect that coverage Before you can tweak it. It's not so much. You're changing a whole different cause just maybe the way you'll play a Certain coverage. It's still the same coverage. I gotcha. All right cover two is cover two You got two deeps guys. You got five guys underneath. All right. That's cover two zone Well, there's a hundred different ways to play cover two zone But until you learn to play the first cover two zone correctly Then you can't really go to the next cover two zone. It's gonna be the same I know this may or may not be making sense, but it's it's like It's not like you're changing all new calls It's like you're changing other calls and you're tweaking them a little bit to give a quarterback a different look or something like that but you're not helping your players if they don't yet understand The first one right it's hard to go to the second one It's hard to learn how to subtract if you haven't learned how to add Yeah hard learn how to multiply if you haven't learned how to add and subtract everything's in an order and So it's kind of the same way you can keep adding if that if they get that oh and they got that Okay, we can go on to this then we can add this a little bit, but until they get that well when you're a new Team coming in a new coaching staff coming in like we were here in Atlanta Mm-hmm, and our scheme was a lot different than the old defensive scheme right doesn't make a good or bad It doesn't make a better or worse People believe in what they believe in there's all these different offenses all these different defenses And they all work if you have the personnel to do them But I'm not gonna sit there and try to throw everything at these guys when it's so different than what they just got done playing So until they perfected that then we can move on so like yeah early on We didn't have a lot in as the season went on. We added more Did we ever get to a hundred percent? No, but I don't know if I've ever gotten to everything in the playbook, right? Any place so when you I mean when you're dealing with 60 70 percent of your playbook you're dealing with a lot of stuff Yeah, yeah, especially yours Because of you cumulated all these years of stuff And so I throw nothing out. That's the problem Just hoarding it off. I'm a hoarder so So it's it's that that percentage is really irrelevant The percentage is only good. What percentage of stuff can they learn? Yeah, and that's what's important Okay, I got him I'm glad that we got off on that tangent because I feel like that was a lot of like I got I got a lot of questions It was like What do you mean? They only have this percentage in and I'm like I think you're overthinking this You are and it's and it really doesn't have to do with all the players can't handle it. It's like no, it's it's not that it you know, we got a lot of stuff in even 30 40 percent of somebody's playbook is a lot of stuff. Yeah, I don't think people understand how much It's just like you've All the stuff I had in the playbook. I have all the stuff from newy. I have all the stuff in college I have all the stuff from new England. I have all the stuff from Baltimore all the stuff that we changed at Tennessee Well, the thing just keeps getting bigger, you know, so when it was like this at new england That was pretty easy. Well, then Baltimore it gets like, you know, it just keeps getting bigger You can't expect the guys from Atlanta to know everything that we've done Coaching wise in the last 40 years. There's no way right, but that's the playbook. Yeah So there's 60 percent is still the same thing that the new england guys had the same thing the bottom more guys had Same thing the Tennessee guys had it's just it's it's all kind of same. Yeah, this may be a I don't know and In off the wall question, but how do you store your playbook? Like is it in file cabinets? Do you write you can try to steal it or I'm not gonna. No, I'm not gonna try and steal it I'm I I promise you I won't steal it But I may come by and just have a peek one time just run by the office. Hey It's it's actually it's in every book that I have I have a new england book I have a Baltimore book out of Tennessee book. I have an Atlanta book Okay, so I don't keep any all of it in one book It's just whatever we're going to use for Atlanta I take out of these other ones and I transfer it over. Okay, same thing when I left new england Some of the stuff went to Baltimore some of the stuff You know Baltimore was really playing good defense long before I got there right and same thing with new england So new england's book is kind of most of the stuff is the stuff that I inherited and then I added to it Baltimore same thing. They were already doing well at Baltimore. So it's Baltimore What they were doing at Baltimore plus the stuff that I brought from new england plus the other stuff that we've kind of changed It just keeps adding on like that. So I just leave it in that book. It's not One big book. So then the stuff that I wanted to play Here at Atlanta that came from new england that came from Baltimore that came from Tennessee All went into the Atlanta Book, okay, that makes sense. See I that that's the part of the I don't know the interesting quirks of the job I like hearing how people Store everything and write out their notes and all that kind of stuff Well, there's a lot of stuff then for example that's in the Atlanta book over here And then there's here's the new england book over here that never has gotten to the Atlanta book These guys don't even know right. I've never even tried to put it in. Yeah, same thing with the Baltimore book So it's just there's stuff in these books That once in a while, I'll be watching a film on another team and going Okay, this pressure will work. This is a pressure. I ran clear back there So I'll take it out of that book and bring it over to the Atlanta book And it's stuff like that. Love it. Um, okay I do want to ask this question because it's something that I've always been curious about The the Super Bowl with with the Ravens Was that the blackout bowl? Yes, it was Please walk me through What you're thinking has the coordinator when I guess like The lights go out like well, where were you? What were you doing? It was like a 34 minute time period in which y'all had to just stop everything Well, I was in the press box Yeah, I'll call in the defense and then all of a sudden the lights went on we just kind of figured it was uh Short or somebody had there was an accident somewhere or something somebody hit a pole Boo up something that it would come right back on And we didn't know how long it was going to happen and Then I can remember sitting in the press box And we could still communicate down to the field with the headsets So the lights were off, but we still had communication through the headsets And I remember coach Harbaugh going off on the officials Because they were talking about the Lights coming No, I take that back the headsets did go down and he was talking about The we had a walkie-talkie that we could only use and that If the lights came back on they were going to restart the game whether the headsets were on or not And he goes well wait a minute my coordinator is in the press box. That's not fair So then we're trying to figure out can we come down? Well, we couldn't come down because the electric is off. There's no elevators So it was like we don't know what the heck's going to happen here And so then finally they had said no that if they do that That they would give us time to come down and do all that stuff and it wouldn't be that because john was livid and Then we just kind of just sat there and just waited until the lights came back on and and started up again I think that so that that part of that super bowl is honestly what makes That super bowl almost as memorable as what it was because that was something that had never happened before No, that was crazy. I I was so i'm glad that I I finally was able to ask you that question because that's been something that's been on my mind for years Yeah, that's crazy. Um, so okay. Let's fast forward now to going to tennessee and I know you talked about you know with mike rable getting to Coach with a player that who's now a coach who you coach like all those all the words Um for but that was also was that the first time that you met arthur smith was at tennessee Yes, what were your first impressions of him? Very good. He was a tight end coach at that time. What any the offensive coordinators tight ends coach Uh, and I remember doing You know what happens is you you're really not around the offensive guys a lot You know them because you're in a staff meeting with them and stuff But you're not correspond them with them every day and all that kind of stuff and so you know i met arthur and and knew him and stuff like that and But the first time that we had a we did a We had to do a press conference together He and I and it happened to be I don't know just I think probably everybody had to do a press conference And hey this day dean is going to be you and and arthur smith And I remember being there at the press conference and watching him talk As a tight end coach and I got this guy is sharp This guy is really sharp. This guy is a good young coach And I that that was my first real impression of him because we maybe been there for three four weeks or something like that and It also told me something about arthur in that When you go through coaching changes Most head coaches come in and want to bring their guys in the guys that there's a comfort level with and I know what he does and there's That they're there guys. Yeah This guy keeps staying on with all these different head coaches Tells you something about the guy and the respect that the new guy has coming in for him To keep him because it's just it's pretty easy most coaches think If my head coach gets fired, we're all gone So i'm sure arthur thought i'm gone But he never was he kept staying on with all these different head coaches including mike And i'm going that tells you a lot about What people think of him what people in the building have said about him What loyalty and what respect people must have for him told me a lot about him Your time at tennessee What kind of was different about it in comparison to your time with the patriots and the ravens I don't know if there was any difference. There was One thing about the patriots and then the ravens There's a there's an aura Of success there is i mean i'm not trying to know you're smoke or anything else or Be little anybody else but There was an expectation at new england to win Um, I mean the year that we went undefeated in 07. Yeah, the offense was number one in the league But I think we were third or fourth on defense. So it was like both sides of ball were good There was just an expectation when you walked in the building Of winning and and that Baltimore it was the same way with john There was just a and spatially on defense. There was just because they have been good since 2000 in defense I mean, there's just not many down years in there all the way up through and it's just The expectation was there Didn't quite feel the expectation at tennessee, even though they'd been nine and seven the year before and won a game in the playoffs Mariota took them to the playoffs and they beat kansas city the first round and got beat And so but I didn't quite feel the aura You know and then the other thing a little bit about it is it's like in baltimore It's such a blue collar town Football is everything the thing about nashville is it's nashville Yeah, there's a lot going on It doesn't have to do with football It's kind of a destination city, right? You know more when we play other teams that would come in they'd have as many fans as we did because If you're in buffalo, you want to go to nashville for the weekend and enjoy your weekend or philadelphia or any of those northern places that did get inundated by People coming in and they want to go to nashville for the weekend So if there's some it's an in retainment city more than it was a football city Baltimore is a football city You know there's certain cities that are new england became that because they started winning so much it became New england not the boston patriots anymore the new england patriots So tennessee was a little different in that aspect, but Players were the players. I mean it was the same thing. There wasn't maybe as many big name guys as there was like at baltimore But you know the jurrell casies and those guys. I mean They were great players. I had I had fun. Yeah, I had fun just as much fun You know as I've had at those other two places the same way here I'm having fun here. Yeah, well, it's it's funny too because you talk about having fun and um You know, I I think a lot of people know this about you, but you retired in 2019 and then took the 20 20 season off and then came out of retirement to come here to atlanta, right? What was that year like in retirement? How how did you know that you wanted to get back in and how quickly did you know that you wanted to get back in? Well, there's there's there's two things about that year one The good thing about being off was it was the covet year. Ah, yes, that's right So every coach that I talked to said they were miserable Because of all the zoom meetings and all this and staying in the hotels And it just wasn't like football and you're playing in front of empty stadiums So that part of it I didn't miss because everybody told me you picked a good year to retire The part that I did miss is that I was doing a radio show on fridays In nashville talking about the opposing teams offense And so the titans were nice enough to give me Film and a computer that I could watch the other teams like if they were playing in the anapolis I could watch indianapolis games and I could break it down so I could talk on radio and actually Sound like I knew what I was talking about. That's why he's so good on the podcast. He has this experience So but what happened was as I started watching this film going I wouldn't do that I wouldn't do that. No, what are they doing? You know and it's like all of a sudden they started missing it And then mel and I went to one home game when they finally started to open it up I couldn't take it I couldn't I couldn't sit there and watch the game and it's like driving me Nuts, I missed it so much being down there with the players and calling the game and stuff like that And I really missed it, but at the same time I was retired and my wife had bought me a golf membership So I was playing golf a couple times a week And so I was enjoying that You know, we had thought about we were going to travel a lot, but obviously covid put an end to that That whole thing So, you know, you're I kind of I'm sitting around and not I'm doing puzzles for the first time in my life And I'm doing puzzles and I'm doing this this radio thing and I'm really missing it. Yeah But at the same time I had gotten a call from a couple other guys that were going to be We're interviewing for head coaches. They hadn't gotten jobs, but they weren't interviewing Would you be interested if I did get the job of coming out of retirement? And I said, I don't think so So then when Arthur and I talked it was different It's all about people and I told you that's that's I went to Tennessee because it was Mike variable. I went to Baltimore because it was John a hardball I went to New England because it was New England and and bill. Yeah, but I also had known bill for years and years I coached with his father right at the naval academy. So I knew bill Every job I've ever taken I took because I kind of in in the NFL has been because I knew the guy that was the head coach and I just had so much respect for Arthur. I said this this will be a good situation and so mel and I talked about it And discussed it wasn't a very long discussion and so it's great and and she that's the other thing about her She's been great. You know here. I am coming out of retirement twice and you know, it's like Some people wouldn't have been real tolerable and she goes hey if that's what you want to do. Let's We'll do it. Yeah, that was going to be my question is how did she What was that conversation like with her because I mean honestly, I'm sure you're around a lot more in that year That might have been the reason why she wanted me to go back But the first one when the two weeks that I was retired after I don't even consider that No, and then because she just that that one though at first She was a little bit about Like I thought we were going to travel because kovat wasn't that right. Yeah The other one was after with kovat around it was kind of like yeah, we aren't going anywhere We aren't doing anything and and we are together and it was really I think it was really last year was a little bit different for her Because it was still kind of kovat last year Yeah, we were in the stands, but you couldn't have like get together's after the game Like we used to always have with all the players and She'd meet the players wives and the players kids and the other coaches wives and coaches kids And she runs a bubble a bible study with coaches wives, which is good But I think she excuse me really missed it last year too Because it's just she couldn't get us involved. So i'm hoping now this next year now. Yeah, that'll that'll change Yeah, I hope so too. It's funny because I Have been in this job for about a year because you know, I was with the athletic for the kovat year and then now i'm here and I hadn't gotten into the building until like two months ago Like at all like I I was in the building for like one week and then they shut it down and I've actually been working out of the dorms. That's where that's where I've been working for the last like For like the six months of the season It should have been different. It's crazy. Yeah um Well, I did want to Kind of wrap all this up talking about the team of which, you know, we're here for By the way, by the way, we shouldn't maybe talk about the the falcons. Um, I I think it's really interesting because um, you talk about the The memorable teams that you've worked with and and how when it's a project It almost makes it more fun. It makes it almost more memorable more meaningful And I feel like that's what this is. I feel like where this organization is right now It's a project and it's a it's a it's building for you Was that something that intrigued you? I know obviously coming and working with octah smith was Priority numero uno, right, but was that something that intrigued you as well? Absolutely. Yeah, it did and and I also The other thing I knew about arthur's arthur's not going to take a job that he doesn't feel like he can get turned around and be successful He wasn't going to take a job because it's all I I need to be a head coach Yeah, well he's going to take a job He interviewed for all of them, right? Yeah, so it's not like he was just gonna You know, I got to be a head coach. It's going to be I'm going to pick the place that I feel like Great ownership great organization. I have a chance to win turn this thing around Obviously if you're interviewing The program's down because you know, they're not usually changing head coaches. Let's the guy go somewhere else. I mean all That's just part of the business. Yeah, just so yeah, it was because artist smith But yeah, yeah part of that was and I will also say that even going seven and ten last year I could not have been more proud of the defense I love these guys these guys gave it what they had they played their hearts out um Could I really thought like we probably had a chance to win a couple more games and maybe we were We were right there at the end up until a couple games to go We were still had a shot at making the playoffs once you get in the playoffs. Who knows right, but I just really I really loved coaching this team last year and I love coaching it right now too I I really feel like We are about to turn a corner. It's going to make everybody proud And I think the people and the fans are hungry for it. I like that um, and I just think that Our players are very hungry. They're very coachable. I enjoy going into that meeting room every day. Yeah, how much I've talked to a few assistants about this over the course of like the draft process How much are you in the meetings in terms of Hey, I I would like to acquire this guy. This guy's on the free agency market. I like him or Hey, this guy. I I saw him at the combine. I really like him. How much are you in those conversations? Oh very much. Yeah, we all of us all the coaches are I mean terry and and and art Take all of our input along with the the head scouts kyle and all those guys It's it's really a collaboration of everybody. You know, they don't they don't want to bring in somebody that we really don't want right and then but Also, what we our jobs is coaches look at the guy does he fit our system? Will he be the guy that we want they got to do all the other ground work as far as Things off the field, you know, as the guy been in trouble. Has he been all this guy? The other part of it is that we play no part in and it's financial That yeah, I was about to ask you that yeah, we don't I don't I don't know I don't know what the sourie cap is. I don't even I don't care Why should I want to know what some guy's making? I don't really care He should be playing because he's the best player whether he's making 10 million 1 million or 25 You know 100. I mean, I'm gonna play the best guy that's playing that position at the time So we can sit there and say hey, we really like this guy as a free agent. I did last year Dean we can't afford him Okay, what do you want me to say? Yeah, okay. All right cool. Can't afford him. Yeah, I'll go to the next one Yeah, so but are they gonna ask us? Yeah, are we gonna give them our opinion? Yes Then it's just a matter of there's other parts to it that we Don't have and it's the same thing with art like when they go into the draft Okay He ain't gonna draft all I want all defensive players. They were going once all offensive players Well, that can't be and we need special teams players So there's a lot of decisions that have to be made You got two guys up here that are fairly equal that you want to take his first round picks Well, they got to make a decision which one is really more valuable to the team Yeah, I want the defensive guy offensive guys want the offensive guy, but they got to make the decision This guy's the best fit right now for what we need. Yeah, and so There's just there's a lot of things But yes, we are very heavily involved. Yeah I think it's interesting because that's something that the salary cap. I feel like it's just this mythical Thing that everyone talks about it's really I think convoluted and And difficult just for some people to get their minds around I know when I first started covering the league like I spent a week Just trying to understand like okay, what's dead money? Like what what are all these terms and what do they mean and why are they important and I think it's interesting because you have people in the building who specifically work cap You have these cap crunchers and then you have the scouts that are constantly thinking about like, okay Is talking about can we afford this person? How much are you constantly thinking about that? I mean, I think about the Grady Jared extension that we just saw happen. Um, how much are you sitting there like? Okay, please find the money to bring this guy back That's but that's about all it is for us. So we're just hoping right that we have the money we we Really as coaches you sit back and you kind of take that totally out of the equation Do would you like to have this player? Yes. Yeah period. That's all I need to say. I can't I don't know about the rest of it. I don't want to know about the rest of it You know, do I want Grady Jared to be get extension abs when they asked me absolutely you want this guy back? Yes Yeah forever, you know, I don't want him to ever leave Atlanta That's all I can say then the rest of it's up to them whether they can get the negotiations and all that stuff done Our job as coaches is do you want this guy as a player? Do you not want this guy as a player? Yes or no and that's I feel like that's all we give them then it's up to them to hopefully negotiate it out If they can there you go I think it's really you said something a couple minutes ago about really feeling like This organization is turning a corner and something that I keep telling people is and especially when y'all first came in here when Terry and Arthur first came in here. I I wrote so many times. It's like look. This is a process. This is not a It's not something that's going to happen overnight And we actually had AJ Terrell on the falcons final whistle podcast not too long ago and I asked him A word to describe 2022 and he said marathon. He was like this organization. We're in a marathon We're not in a sprint. We're in a marathon. We want to have long-term success For you when you're thinking about where this organization is What does excite you about the future of it? I just think we're getting the right people Well, we and I'm not saying the other people that were here were the wrong people. I'm just saying that Every head coach has a personality and that team should reflect his personality And you want people around you that reflect your personality and buy into What you're trying to do If if we're coaching for Arthur Smith, we all need to be in Arthur Smith's You know wheelhouse of what he wants and what does he want? I can't have like well, I want to do it my way on defense. I'm going to do He hired me to do the defensive job But if he wants something a certain way he we need to buy and do it and we need players the same way and I love It's it's called a culture and and everybody has their own and they're all different And so but you got to be what the guy wants you to be and I just feel like we are Making tremendous strides that way and we just Just I can just feel it in the players that they're Buying into everything that we want to get done and they're trying their best to do it That's all you can really ask somebody to do is just give it Give it your best. We want tough guys. We want physical guys. We want smart guys But we also want good character guys You want guys that are out in the community and are doing community service and the people fans can Need to and you're not reading about them in the headlines all the time for the bad reasons And so and and we're doing that Arthur's doing that And I think it's interesting too. There are just so many young guys that you kind of can Mold and into what you kind of hope that they become and having visions for them and I almost feel like those guys are They come in and they're like sponges And they're just like they're so jazzed just to be in the league at large that they're just like let's just go Just throw me out there and go and with this team. It is a young team Do you feel that youth when you're around these guys? Yeah, I do I I feel it But also that's why the greedy gerrits and those guys are so valuable because If you don't have a guy like that that the D. Lyman command and watch him work every single day on how he works And how he prepares that those are examples As a coach I grew up watching other coaches as examples You know kids watch their parents You know, they're good examples. That's how you become a good parent, right? It's so It's it's no different and that's why those guys Even though there's a lot of youth the guys that are the jake matthews the greedy gerrits Those kind of guys are so important because they are going to be the examples to these guys This is how you do it. Absolutely. Well, that wraps up our final peas in the pod segments I hope that you do like this name We're going to stick with it because I think it's fantastic But thank you so much for joining us for the last gosh two hours of of chats I've really really appreciated and I think the fans are really going to love it too. So thank you Thanks for having me. Absolutely