 So, I'm going to go ahead and open the meeting. We've got a quorum here. It is 706. Now, I was going to revive the agenda in person, but I thought it might be helpful for you all to have a heads up. And so I added the December 8 minutes, because in the past, we have not kept our annual meeting only looking at annual meeting minutes. Although we should, but we haven't. We've combined it with regular meetings. So, indeed, I did distribute the December 20, 2021 minutes, but I would like to add the December 8 minutes. And also, at least on the agenda, or maybe I shouldn't add the disillusionment. That would take care of that. We don't have enough people to talk about it. And Justin, now do you have a complaint that I should add under other business? I suppose it depends. So, Mr. Whitaker has informed me today, and maybe he can speak to return public comment that he thinks that the, that the meeting was inappropriate improperly posted. As such, we can't move forward. Maybe let's wait until public comment. I don't know if this individual labeled advocate is Mr. Whitaker. He can make his point. You know, I don't, I'm not interested in adding it, but as Steven is. Well, if he sent you something and writing then it's a complaint we have to deal with. He did not. Oh, okay. Okay. This, this was just a conversation that I had with Mr. Whitaker this afternoon regarding, but then hold on. Steve answered my, but hold on one second. Steve answered my email today, 453, so let me just see if it's actually complaint. And Steve is voicing his complaints in this response to my, or to your email. I don't know. I mean, you tell me, Donna, do you see his response at 453 to your meeting agenda? Well, yes, because otherwise it's, it would be good to handle it now I think. Yeah, let's do it. Let's go for it. I would move that other business. Okay. It's not other business. It's questioning whether you have the ability to have any meeting at all right now because this meeting wasn't properly warned. Stephen, you have not been acknowledged. I cannot even see you on my screen. So you do not have the floor. I'm not in the meeting, Justin. So I think it makes, yeah, I mean, I don't know, Donna, you know a lot more about procedure than me. I do understand Steve's point that if like that, that his point is that the meeting can't open. I suppose the counterpoint is you can't deal with a complaint unless the meeting is open. Yeah, no, no, because we can still do the meeting and then if indeed were the board to take the complaint and they decide it's invalid. Then it's invalid. If they decided it's valid, then they can ultimately decide to vote it at the next meeting to approve it. So to me that's why it goes under other business. Yeah, it's fine with me. So if there's any other discussion on the agenda by the board members, the agenda is approved as adjusted. Public comments of something that's not on the agenda. Stephen you have something you want to say. Well, I just got. Oh, Kim. Sorry. My sound system was not working. I finally got it. Cooked up. I didn't quite understand was the meeting properly warned or wasn't. Well, as far as I'm concerned, it was it started in November. Everything was posted. Everything was published in the paper as it was supposed to be. So I don't know that's what the charter requires. And that's what happened. Was the and I announced it at all the meetings of the board in November and December as well as the two city meetings. Well, was there any way for the public to know how to get. Yes, I sent an address, not a phone number because our phone number doesn't work very well or Google number. What was the we get them an address to write for any comments was the zoom. The zoom is on all the agendas reoccurring. Yes. But as I understand the agenda wasn't published for the zoom until about four o'clock. Well, the website didn't get it published. But that's just one step in the process. So again, Kim, if you want to talk about that, that's under other business. Well, I'm just trying to figure out where we are tonight. Well, where, where, where I feel we are is that we went through all the steps. I missed one on the website. And it's also true that I put Thursday instead of Monday, but it doesn't make it invalid. But Donna also, there's no requirement in the charter whatsoever that anything needs to be posted on the website. That's right. But I mean that's if we're talking about charter requirements. It's just meeting law says website. I mean, in good faith effort, the intention was and that's my dropping the ball between you and me, but that's not insurmountable. So the board seems that's a valid. Yeah, we can decide later. Yeah. And then the board can decide if it is then what steps to take, or they can say it's not a valid thing. Well, the question is, is it a valid meeting. Okay, but let's just deal with that now Kim since you'd like to do that now. So, Stephen you want to state your complaint. I think you have touched on most of it I believe that the warnings that were printed in the newspaper assured the interested public that the link and the agenda would be posted on the website a week prior to the meeting. That just didn't happen. It happened that this afternoon, an agenda first put up as a minute minute year old minutes. And then finally when the agenda was put up, it referenced both Thursday and a Monday. And so, and it referenced an annual report from last year which still isn't up on the website. So you have bundled this beyond recognition. Okay, so I, as I stated I don't agree with that. I don't think it's anything as insurmountable. It's a matter that indeed there is human error there but there was lots of other avenues for the public to access this information and it was early. I got it out early because I knew how hard December was going to be in my life to run around and repost everything. So it got all the physical posting they got all the ads in the newspaper. I went to the library, I went to the library today and I saw an agenda that's the reference to meeting coming up on Thursday, and I had a library staff confirm that meeting isn't until Thursday. So, December 19. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I got the wrong date. But it means that the meeting is not legally warned and you cannot conduct a public meeting. Okay, that's how you feel about it. I feel like the meeting law allows for human error and the board can adjust for that. It's this decision that the board want to adjust for it. Kim obviously doesn't. Well, I don't know about that, but how many members of the public are there. There's only Stephen. Come on, let's face it. But isn't that I don't want to get it out there. It was put out there Kim. It was physically posted. It was advertised. Anyone interested can go on the website and get our names. When I look at the participants, all I see is David Delcore and Orca. There's no other members of the public. Well, Dave's here with his paper. So he found this and Stephen. Yeah. Okay. Well, I just want to make a record. Apparently, nobody other than those two people saw the meeting. But you're determined to proceed. I'm asking the board. If the board does not want to proceed, then we won't. We should just do it. Justin, sorry, didn't see your hand. I don't think that these are fatal errors in any way. I can only speak from my experience and like court proceedings and with complaints. This is what I would call a ministerial error. So when they're like small, tiny errors that can be very easily changed. Like if you named, for example, the wrong complainant on a criminal complaint, it can very easily be adjusted. At least this is my experience right up until the time trial. Because everybody knows what you're talking about. And so it's really about spirits and not about technicality in this particular instance. In December, I don't think the Thursday versus Monday thing. I don't think it's particularly close. It's not a close call at all. I don't think that's remotely fatal to this meeting being legitimate. The date was correct. If anyone needed to ask questions about it, they could have asked what the right one was these things happen all the time in all sorts of context so I don't think that was even close. On this side, it's particularly close to be honest. This has been a recurring zoom meeting call. It was the agenda was eventually posted posted today like three or four o'clock which means people had many hours of notice to click through be one thing if the meeting had started without a link available, although even then given that it's a zoom recurring zoom link. Maybe it would have been okay but probably not. I mean, that my opinion and I've already told Steven this I don't think these are legitimate gripes I don't think well they're legitimate gripes. I don't think they impact our go to the habit annual meeting whatsoever. And I, again, I do not think it's a post call. Doug, how do you feel about it. As far as going ahead and having the meeting that it's valid, even though it wasn't perfectly posted. Let's move ahead. Okay, now we have a complaint so we really need to have a motion that indeed they don't feel the complaint is valid. Or you can say that it was an inadvertent error, and that we will take more care with dates and getting things post posted timely. So we need all four of us to agree, because it has to four is a quorum, Justin your hands up, you have more to say yeah I would, I would move to that the complaint, although understandable is not fatal to the legitimacy of the meeting at all and that we can move forward. I suppose I would move to reject the complaint, although I find that language a bit harsh. You say you just disagree with it how about that. Sure. At the board finds the complaint did not be a valid reason to not move forward the annual meeting. Can I have a second on that. A second. Second. Okay. Any more discussion about the complaint. Yes, I have my hand. All right. To speak up Kim you're a little hard to hear go ahead. Okay. Well, can we can we get an opinion. What I'm concerned about is this is if, if the complaint. If it's a violation of state law. That's a little different from the court proceeding that Justin has. And I don't think we have a lot of important business to do tonight. And, but what we could do is maybe ask. It sounds like we, we got to get a legal opinion about some other things. Actually, it doesn't take a legal opinion. We've already gotten a legal opinion in the past about open meeting law. And when there is an invert error, the board can say. That either that they're going to correct things in the future. Or that indeed they feel the complaint is not a valid impact on the proceedings. Where I was going with this is. Since we could have a reconsideration. Legal says it's just not. Valid. I mean, I don't think we have a lot of important business to do tonight. So I'm reluctant to hold it up. But I would like, I would like to. If we're going to have to have a motion to reconsideration, I'd like to have a basis for it. A legal basis. I'm sorry, a motion for reconsideration of what? Well, at our next meeting. Well, this is our meeting. So indeed, if we have another annual meeting, you have three weeks of advertising posting in the paper. You have three locations in both cities that have to be posted. So many weeks ahead. So if this is not a valid annual meeting, then you do have a lot of work to do. And I'm hearing everyone but you feeling that. Again, that the complaint is not valid to the proceeding or the spirit of the intention. I don't know if it's valid. I wish somebody. Okay. I'm just going to call a vote and you can vote how you wish. Anyone else want to say something besides Kim. All right. All in. I lost Justin visually. So speak up all in favor of. Passing the motion by Justin second second by dub that the complaint was not valid to the proceeding. A hand I. Motion was to reject a complaint. Yes. I'm sorry. He felt the wording I have Justin. You may have written it down differently. Is that the complaint was not valid to the proceedings. I would understand him that I'm doing so because. If there's a legal opinion that says it is invalid. I'll move to reconsider. Okay. So you're voting no. No. I can't. I need a yes or no. I'm sorry. I voted to support the motion. Okay. So that's unanimous. Then you're forfeiting your right to motion to reconsider. Okay. Thank you, Kim. We have four votes. Stephen, I can't even find you to turn you off. So it's not very fair. You turn me off all the time. No problem. I can't. Okay. The next thing is. We already approved the minutes of the annual meeting that happened last year. I did include them so people can see the history. So those do not have to be approved. The minutes of December 8th were also attached. Any comments about the minutes or motion to accept them. I have some comments. Kim, was that a motion to accept? No, I do. You asked for comments. Well, okay. Let's have a motion first. Then we can have comments. I'm sorry. Doug. Donna, shouldn't we have comments about the before the motion? Just in case they need to. The board has to decide something is. I know we tend to do it backwards, but. Okay. If indeed the board should have a motion on the table to decide something's worth talking about, but I don't care. We can have comments. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm. Usually you have a motion, then you have amendments. Go ahead, Kim. Well, but I wish the minutes would. Reflect. Is that. Again, I wrote my real objection to the. To the document request. And I wish they would. Minutes would reflect that. That would reflect that. Okay. Okay. So within the December eight minutes. You want a statement. I think you did that last month too. You want a statement added to look to the website for Kim's additional comments. The minutes are all about motions, Kim. Motions. We accept this. Don't accept this. But there's also. I don't know what it's supposed to be, but I just wish there was a reference to the website. I would move. Donna, I would move to adopt Kim's amendment. I had to realize quite a bit. You have. More than you should have in minutes. I did not. Take it easy. Take it easy, chair. No, you did really well. But you put a lot in there. You were, I thought you were very good and. And expand and summarizing, but substantially put a lot in there people's comments. No, I thought you were pretty. I would move to, I would move to amend the minutes to, to accept Kim's suggestion that we just add a sentence saying. Kim's entire objection is, is can be found posted on the website. So what Kim's white paper, we're going to. I don't remember him submitting something to that meeting. I think it is. If it's not, I can definitely post it. It's posted now. I looked it up. Oh, there it is. Public record request appeal re Kim Cheney. Yeah. I posted it. So it's there. So just make a reference. Yeah. I can do that really easily. I would move that we do that. You want to make him. Yes. Okay. Right now it's just one of the amendments is to add that about Kim statement. Any other amendments to the minutes. Then I would entertain a motion to accept the minutes with that one addition. I would so move. Okay. Kim or Doug second. I'll second. I don't know what happened. Okay. All in favor. Raise your hand. Okay. Fine. Passes to Doug vote. Yes, he did. He raised his hand. Okay. Okay. So next is review with the proposed budget. So I distribute that with things taken out. So that 2425 or zeroed out. And current FY year showed a potential of. 27,000 dollars going to. Back to the cities. I don't know if you're ready for comments, but. Sure. Go ahead, Kim. I don't think we should vote to. I think the voting the money to. Voting the money back to the city is a separate. Issue. And. There was a motion to dissolve the corporation. Which I think we're going to take up. In January when Justin prepares a plan. And that. Seems to me we should decide that before. Deciding what to do with the money. And there was also. A recommendation by the league that we get. Independent. Legal advice that had to do this properly. And there may be some expense involved in that. So. I would accept the budget except not the recommendation. The money be dispersed back to the city at this point. Well, there was sort of a straw vote about the 25,000 requested. A general support, not a specific vote. So. I only had $2,000 left at that point. So I just put the whole 27. Going back to either to the cities. Or to support the impact study, but I can take that out and just leave it at the 25. Well. My preference. If we're not going to make any decision at this meeting, that was sort of the general decision at the last meeting. But it wasn't. I think that's a reasonable position. Especially given that we only have four of the six members here. And it's such a consequential. Decision. All right. But then so the existing proposed budget. Goes back to that. What it was before December 8th meeting. We have to have something that's a draft on our website that says, this is the budget we're considering. It's always being reconsidered and reconsidered until we send it to the city for the ballot sometime prior to January 26th. We've already had this is my fifth draft. Well, we can. I just want to be clear that you're going back to that. That was approved before. December 8th. Okay. I want to speak on this Donna. Well, you're not going to chance. Doug. Flip the thing muted. Okay, Doug. You should be able to talk now. I don't want to talk now. Oh. No comment on the budget. Okay. All right. So then we'll just go back to that. The fifth draft. Instead of the sixth. Okay. Fine. I'm still waiting to talk on the budget. Yes, you are. Justin, do you have anything, I think you said, you thought we shouldn't vote on it now shouldn't change it. So that means the draft. Okay. Steven. Yeah, I want to point out that in the meeting two meetings ago, where you kept muting me every time I tried to talk. And then you failed to open the public hearing on the budget. So I was denied the opportunity. You have not had a public hearing on this budget. And it's just par for the course. Of mangling this whole process. So. I intend to challenge it. I need to know who the service of process agent is to file a legal action. And you need to budget some legal fees. Okay. Anything else? You got a little more time on your two minutes. Well, I get more than two minutes when I need it. I'll take that up in court too, but I need to know who your service of process is Donna. Cause I'm suing you and the CV PSA. And I need to know who to serve the papers on. Well, I guess you'll end up having to serve it to the chair. That's me right now. Congratulations. Okay. Can I get a restakement of what the motion is? There. There is no motion really. There's a general consensus. To leave the budget back where it was before the December 8th discussion. Which means what? It's draft five right now. I don't have it buzzing in my head. But I guess you'll end up having to serve it to the chair. That's me right now. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And now I don't have it buzzing in my head. With absolute security. But if you look. Oops. Where'd it go? Here it is. That. Budget had. I think 20 as a consultant and project manager. Not thinking about the 25 for. 25. And that was about the only difference. It had no money coming from the cities. Or 23. 25. 24, 25. It either had 30 or 50. Again, the draft I have here. Unfortunately doesn't have a heading. Whether this was a fifth or fourth. I brought this the sixth, which I didn't keep all the different versions, but I'll go back to it. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. As I understand it, we're not bound. No, we have, we have several. We have at least one meeting and we can always create more meetings between. Now. And the 26th of January when it has to be finalized. The present motion is. A budget of zero for the. In March of. Well, before we went to zero from the cities, but now it's zero. And then after December 8th, we went to zero. So zero. And then in the out years, it's more. I want to support. I want to support zero and. And 23. I don't know what the proper way to do that. Well, then that's the December 8th budget was zero. The previous one had 30,000. And. And the 25, whatever's left. We're not deciding what to do with that until another meeting. Okay. So if I understand you, you would actually like to make a motion. And I thought we weren't going to do that, that we didn't feel we had, you know, our full six members with something so important as our budget. But you can make a motion Kim and you can see if it's supported. I'm just. Just trying to clear my mind when you were advocating before that this was not the meeting to make that decision on. Well, I don't know, we have a quorum, I guess. We do have a quorum. It's a matter of what I think Justin and I mentioned earlier, good faith effort. Whether we would prefer to have all six board members present to make that decision. But you can make a motion and see if it's supported, sir. No, let's see if anybody makes a motion. I don't think anyone, but you are as interested. So if you're going to make a motion or not. Well, there's no motion to approve any budget that I've heard. Okay. Fine. I'm going to go ahead then and move to the next item, which is the ballot warning. I'm going to go ahead and move to the next item, which is the ballot warning. For the two at large board members, they're just a, it's a blank. You don't have any names to insert, but we do publish that there are two at large board members. And if someone gets more than 30 right ends, then they can compete to who has the highest to fill those two slots. I did bring up. I can read you the actual warning. If people, it's the same one we've always had. We've had a public vote of three at large board members. We're going to be able to get the ballot for the first day. We'll be able to get the ballot for the first day. So we are warned to meet at their central polling places on the first of March, 2023 from seven AM to seven PM. At the same time in place and during the same voting hours, the members, the voting, the voters of the members of the center of Vermont public safety authority will meet for the purpose of electing by a stray and value at the following. Two at large board members to serve a term of three years. today, December 19th, 2022. And if not, then it would be January 12th. In fact, that's it. Your hands up. Yeah, I'd move to accept the ballot that's written. OK, the warning, OK, for the at-large. Thank you. Second to that. Can I voice a problem with that? Well, just a minute. Doug is seconding. OK, now discussion. Yes, Kim. Well, one of those would be to fill the unexpired term of householder, so it wouldn't be for three years. Oh, you're right. OK, the wording should be changed. Yes, OK. And the other would be here. So one is for, he won't have two years left. He'll only have one year left. And the other one is for three year. Right. OK. With that amendment to the motion acceptable to Justin and Doug. Yes. I forget that they're not all the same. It's my error. OK. Thank you. All in favor of the modified to verify that one is a three year, one is a one year. I'll say aye. Aye. OK. Passes unanimously. Thank you. So on the other business, we're not going to do the disillusion. And we've already dealt with the complaint. Any other business to come before this body? If not, then the next meeting is, oh, Doug. Yeah, that mute thing. Considering it is the season, I would like to extend to everybody my best wishes for a happy holiday season. Well, thank you, Doug. Thanks, Doug. Same. Yes, happy holidays, everyone. Reciprocal, thank you all. All right, so then our next meeting is January 12th, Thursday, 7 p.m. Thank you all for attending. I appreciate you taking the time. Good night. I'd like to figure out what you're going to do about the missing no public hearing on the budget. Good night. If it's a complaint, Steven sent it to me. We already did that. Hello and good morning. The board already acted on that when Steven wasn't talking to us. That was way back in November. You can check the minutes. We already talked about that. And it's just as valid, even though I didn't say the words, there was a discussion. And we talked about that at that meeting. It's in minutes. I'd also like to request that Doug put his comments in writing regarding that he made at the meeting two meetings prior, which we're not going to do that. No, no, sorry. I was denied access in a timely manner to the recording. So I couldn't transcribe it to benefit of city council. So it's important that Doug be on the record for what he said at the meeting. I know you don't want it to be heard, Donna, but that's... No, we're not recording. I thought I gave a pretty fair... I thought I gave a pretty fair synopsis of Doug's statement at city council meeting. Oh, yeah. But even that, the minutes are not there to quote everybody. They're not their purpose. And that we have recordings. That's an additional aspect, but no, I'm not asking someone to write up their comments for a past meeting. Oh, so not recording. That's no problem. Excuse me, Kim. Are they recording? Are they recording? Is there a record? Yes, there's a record. I've been asking for it for a week or two now, and I still don't have it. I'm sorry. The one we got was just gotten last week, and I believe Justin's already responded to you. No, he's not produced the record, and I need an info for them. Well, you have to tell him how you want to pay for it, Steven. I saw his email. Did I not, Justin? Wasn't there not an email? Oh, yeah, I did. I asked if you still wanted that, the hearing, and if you were requesting a waiver of the costs, just respond to me, Steven, and figure it out. Also keep in mind that EVPSA as discussed last year during the public records request discussion is not open Monday to Friday, nine to five for public records request. And so public records requests are only filled during very limited hours on Tuesdays and Thursdays due to lack of staffing. So we're gonna do our best, but yeah, that's what we do. That's actually the law right there. That's, you know, the... No, sorry, no, the town clerks, lots of offices have limited hours. It's totally part of the open meeting law. And likewise with no staff, no office. We've set them aside. We did them part of our organizing meeting. That's done. Out of order, Steven. All right, I try to close this meeting. Now I'm officially closing it at 742.