 Hi, good morning California and good afternoon and good evening Europe and Asia. It's a this is each way I'm faculty co director of storage acts and initiative Stanford and also the director of preco Institute for energy. It's very exciting. So to have our storage acts symposium again. Today is a very, very interesting topic for people, people working on energy storage. That's on wireless charging. I have my own Shanghai fan and Professor Reagan to give you introduction, you know, on this topic, I believe this is a very interesting to everybody. Looking on batteries working on other formal energy storage today to host these two speakers. This is my colleague Professor Simona, honorary to everybody. Simona is a young star faculty here. I'm glad to have her as a colleague. She received her PhD from University of Rome. And he spent his post she spent her postdoc and a higher state university and then joining Clemson University. Since 2017. We were able to recruit her to join a Stanford University in the department of energy resources engineering. And she's an expert in the control and the battery management. I am glad in the past number of years I've been learning so much from Simona. Introduction Simona. I'm glad to have you to host this two speakers. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for the very kind generous introduction. So good morning everyone from Stanford University. And today we kick off the start a jack symposium for the summer quarter. And I'm very, very honored and happy to go host this event today with the professors way. And we are extremely happy today to have two outstanding academic colleagues. To talk about wireless charging. This is a very important topic and exceptional important topic today's for transportation and beyond that. And we are very happy to be here from the two of the worst expert in the top. Our speakers as he has mentioned our professor Shanwei fan from Stanford University and professor Reagan Zane from Utah State University. Let me introduce a professor fun, a little bit in detail is going to be our first speaker. Professor fan is a professor in electrical engineering here at Stanford, and he's the director of the Edward Jinson laboratory. He received his PhD in 1997 in theoretical condensed mother physics from MIT. And his research interests are in the general area of non photonics. He has published a huge amount of papers 600 papers and probably more than that this is up today, and he has given more than 380 in body talks. Among a long list of words that you can read from his website, I decided to pick three, which is probably the most important ones. You got awarded the NSF career word, the David and Lucille Packard Fellowship Award, and the National Academy of Sciences Award for initiative research. I'm very pleased to have you here and we look forward to your talk. Well, thank you, Simona for the very kind introduction, and, and also to evil organizing this to initiating this so I like to talk a bit about our recent work in electromagnetic and for tonic concepts for power transfer. My group actually specialized in electromagnetics and photonics. So we seek to design structures to control electromagnetic fields and electromagnetic waves. And this is of central importance for power transfer, because almost all form of power transfer is carried out using electromagnetic fields. And here I actually give two example, the power of the sun comes to us wirelessly through the use of electromagnetic wave at very high frequency of a few hundred terahertz. On the other end of the spectrum, the way we usually get electricity, those comes to us through a wire, but at a low frequency of about 50 hertz, this again is a form of electromagnetic wave. Even though the frequencies of the wave are very different, and therefore the detail device configuration look very different. The underlying physics of these are governed by the same set of fundamental equations those are the Maxwell equations, and therefore there's tremendous amount of cross fertilization from one end of the spectrum which is photonics to the other end of the spectrum. That's the usual electromagnetic and electronics. So, with that as a background, I like to talk about two set of recent works. The first one is a lower frequency, we're going to talk about megahertz frequency, and we'll talk about some of our attempt to improve the robustness of dynamic wireless transfer. And then, in the remaining part of my talk, I'm going to talk about something maybe slightly different from the focus of this symposium, but I think it's also quite important in energy technology, and that is the possibility of doing photonic, voted transformer. Let me start with the first part on dynamic wireless power transfer. First, let me give you a brief introduction about wireless power transfer itself. Wireless power transfer in fact has a very long history and has a wide variety of forms as one form of wireless transfer one can directly send an electromagnetic wave from a transmitter to a receiver. This in fact is how the power for example come to us from the sun so you actually can go very very long distance. The drawback of this, however, is that you require line of sight. Obviously, if you block the line of sight between the transmitter and receiver. In this case, the electromagnetic wave cannot go from one point to the other. In the near field, it is actually possible to do wireless power transfer without a line of sight. And one common form of the wireless power transfer is the inductive transfer. In this case, one use two coils, each of them generate magnetic field when there's current, and the magnetic field of one of the coil can be seen by the other coil and that results in power transfer. In the simplest form one simply use two inductors or these two coils, and this has been a very widely used for example in our electrical tools brush. However, in doing so the transfer distance is fairly limited. This is on the distance perhaps on the order of a few millimeter. As a significant improvement of the inductive transfer scheme, one can enhance the capability by coupling each of the inductor to a capacitor to form a LC circuit, and therefore forming a resonator on both side. In doing so, the transfer distance between the two inductor can be significantly improved. As in many of the ideas in wireless power transfer has a long history this idea dates back to Tesla, the inventor. And, but in recent years there's a resurgence of interest in this particular transfer scheme, in part due to this very well known experiment carried out at MIT in 2007. So experimentally is very nicely summarizing this picture is that you can transfer power on the order of pins of watts through a distance of a few meter. And while the humans here, these are the researchers with the experiment are blocking the line of sites between the two coils. This work has generated fairly substantial interest and has been commercialized. As you can see, the efficiency generally is quite good on the order of maybe about a meter scale, and then it gradually forced down as the distance increases. And even though there is substantial commercial activity around this technology, and in fact has been commercialized for stationary charging of electric vehicles. It is in fact difficult to use a scheme directly for dynamic wireless power charging due to a fundamental constraint about the scheme. So to illustrate the scheme is useful to go deeper into some of the analysis. So, imagine that you have these two resonator couple together. You can describe them in terms of a couple more theory formalism. And the prediction of this is that you can compute a transfer efficiency as a function of frequency. Since these are resonators, you expect that the transfer expression efficiency will exhibit peaks, and these correspond to the eigen modes of the couple resonator system. When the distance is short, these peak will split and at the height of the peak at the center frequency of the resonance, you get 100% transmission. As you move the distance, the peak shifts because the coupling between the resonator changes, but there's always a frequency where there's 100% transfer efficiency. If the distance goes too far, the coupling constant is sufficiently weak, one got out of the so-called strong coupling regime, and the efficiency started to decrease. So, therefore, if you in the setup allow the efficiency to vary as the transfer distance vary, then you got this very nice efficiency curve where the efficiency is flat over a substantial distance, and then it drops when it's far away. And this is what they experimentally do. When they change the transfer distance in each of those distances, they readjust the circuit to get a high efficiency. On the other hand, this require you for every distance to readjust the circuit. And if you don't do that, then suppose, for example, you fix the transfer efficient transfer frequency, operating frequency at a single frequency, for example, then you get an efficiency curve that instead look like this, where you only have a peak at a particular transfer distance, and the transfer efficiency actually goes down, deviated from the peak, either as you go longer or shorter in the transfer distance. So, therefore, this scheme has substantial dependency on the operating condition, for example, the transfer distance between the transmitter and the receiver. For stationary charging is not too hard to imagine that you would design a transfer circuit or control circuit that will allow you to lock the system into the high efficiency point, because the condition doesn't vary much. On the other hand, if you think about dynamic charging, for example, if you want to charge an electric car while the car is moving, then the condition for the transfer is continuously varying, and it becomes a substantial challenge to come up with the right control to be able to maintain high efficiency power transfer. So, to overcome this difficulty, a few years ago we have reintroduced this idea of parity times symmetric circuit in order to achieve robust wireless power transfer. So, the key modification here is instead of driving two passive resonators with a fixed frequency RF frequency source, what we do is to remove the source, but instead place an amplifier inside one of the resonator. In this case, we would be directly providing DC power into the amplifier, and yet this is going to drive a wireless power transfer at a frequency of a few megahertz. So, the physics of this comes from recent development in both photonics and fundamental physics such as quantum mechanics about the concept of parity times symmetry. In the resonator system that has gain and loss like this, the exhibit what's called parity times symmetry, because the system is invariant, if you perform a mirror operator, while in the meantime flip the sign of gain and loss. So, the mirror correspond to parity, and the flipping of gain and loss corresponds to what's called the time reversal operation. And the important physics of this is that in this couple resonator system, if you look at the eigenfrequency of the system in the strong copying regime when the distance is small, you have two eigenfrequencies that are continuously oscillating, and therefore there's no imaginary part, but if it's too far off, then the real part of the eigenfrequency coalesce and the imaginary part which tell you gain and loss now bifurcate. This concept has generated this kind of physics has generated very substantial interest in the photonics community for manipulating the property of light. What we do is to borrow this concept to think about wireless power transfer, and in particular what we do different from the usual linear parity time system. We put in a nonlinear gain, saturable gain inside the resonator one of the resonator in doing so, instead of talking about the eigenfrequency, we will talk about the oscillation frequency since the system is essentially an oscillator. And since I come from optics, this is the rapid analogous to a laser and you can think of it as a lasing frequency for a few of those in the audience that has an optics background. So, when the distance is small, the oscillation frequency trace the eigenfrequency and therefore it's going to vary as a function of distance. And when the distance is large, they get locked because the two resonators are decoupled. Now, importantly, in this case, the system chooses own oscillation frequency. As you vary the distance between the resonators, the electromagnetic field that's generated inside the resonator system has its own oscillation frequency dictated by the balance between the gain and loss. Now, if you remember what we have talked about, about stationary system, this frequency, which is very close to the eigenfrequency of the passive system is exactly the optimum frequency for efficient power transfer. So remarkably in this system, by putting an amplifier inside the one of the resonator, the system would be able to choose its own frequency that happened to be optimal for efficient wireless power transfer. And therefore you can build a circuit where the transfer is always highly efficient over a range of distances without any need of a control circuit. So theoretically, if you have the conventional scheme without any tuning circuit, as I mentioned, you will get a peak in the transfer efficiency as a function of distance, whereas in the case where you have the PT symmetric system again without any tuning circuit, you would be able to achieve a flat transfer efficiency that is high over the entire range of transfer distances where the system stay in a strong copying regime. Here is our experimental setup that end to demonstrate this concept. So in the experimental setup, we have a inductor which are these copper plates, and they are designed to minimize a conductive loss and therefore we use this very wide copper plate. And the wide region, the wide object here right underneath the inductor is the capacitor. So we have the inductor capacitive pair to form a resonator. And so we have the source resonator and the receiver resonator that are separate by a distance on the order of a meter or so. And on the receiver side for visualization purposes, we place a light emitting diode to be driven by the receiver resonator so that and we adjust the circuit so that when there is efficient transfer, the LED is going to light up. But if there isn't, then the LED is going to turn on so turn off excuse me so that we have a direct way to visualize the efficiency of the power transfer. On the source side, this is driven by external power source in two different ways. We're going to do that in a conventional way, where we drive it by a inductive coupling using an RF frequency source, or we're going to remove the RF frequency source, but put the amplifier directly into the source circuit. And compare the performance of these two systems. So, just as a reminder, for the conventional scheme, we will have a transfer efficiency as a function of distance that look like the dash curve here. And therefore, we expect the LED to light up only at a high efficiency point at a particular distance. And as we deviate from this distance on both sides on the left on the right, the you expect that the efficiency to go down and therefore the the LED to turn off. So expect to see the LED lights up only at one particular distance. So here's a movie of the experiment. So this is said who is doing the experiment, and he's pushing it apart. And as you can see the LED lights up only at one particular distance, and then slowly get them. He's going to push it back. And then you see the LED light up only at one distance. And then importantly, it turns off, even while you are reducing the transfer distance. And I think this is illustration of the issue associated with the conventional scheme in the absence of the external tuning circuit, you will not have robustness, the transfer efficiency very, very drastically as a function of the transfer distance. So in our scheme, theoretically, the transfer efficiency is indicated by the blue curve here, and one expect to see that efficiency stays high over a wide range of transfer distances. But in our experiment, we expect to see that while the receiver coil move, as long as it stay within a particular distance range, the LED will remain lighted. And again, this is said doing his experiment. You can see that the LED lights up immediately at the short distance regime, and they stay lighted over a range of distance until you go too far away. And you can see the same behavior as he's pushing back as the receiver is moving the transfer efficiency stays high. Now the LED is simply a way to visualize the transfer process. But we also directly measure the transfer efficiency. And we also correlate the transfer efficiency with the measured oscillation frequency of the electromagnetic field inside the system. In the strong copying regime of the, what's called the PT phase transition, the eigen frequency should split. And this is exactly what we see where the transfer efficiency stay nearly constant. And in the weak copying regime the transfer efficiency start to drop, and that corresponds very well to the regime where the frequency, the oscillation frequency is independent of the distance. So the underlying physics of the kind of high efficiency robust transfer behavior that we see is directly related to the underlying parity time symmetry physics. This is the experiment that we performed published around 2017 about four years ago. And in this initial experiment, the transfer efficiency measured as the power, the fraction of power we injected into the source rated resonator that's being accepted by the receiver resonator is very high. This is fairly close to unity already. But the overall system efficiency is a product of the amplifier efficiency times the transfer efficiency. So, ultimately what you care about is a transfer efficiency is a overall system efficiency, where you plug this thing into a DC power source, or a low frequency power source. That's how much of the power is received by the receiver. So, in our initial experiment, the transfer, the system efficiency by itself actually is low, because the amplifier that we use was something called negative impedance amplifier. And if you look at the circuit of the amplifier itself, there is intrinsic loss associated with this kind of negative impedance amplifier. In fact, they are in this particular configuration I'm showing, you can show that theoretically the efficiency of the amplifier itself cannot go beyond 50%. And therefore, what we observe is something in the end somewhere between 10 to 30% in our building circuit. Now, it will be important to push this towards the system efficiency that's much higher. And it turned out that one important ingredient is to replace the negative impedance amplifier with a switch mode amplifier. In this amplifier, the transistor was switched between a high conductance and a low conductance mode, due to the battery voltage variation of on a gate driver. And in doing so, with proper construction, the amplifier will always switch between these two modes. And within these two modes, they are a minimum power loss. Now, I set proper design because this actually takes substantial amount of theoretical and experimental work, but I'm very pleased and also quite proud. In fact, the student that you saw in the video was able to do it after several years of intense effort. And the end result is that we are able to demonstrate this kind of PT symmetric wireless power transfer with system efficiency over 90% as measured by the power injected, the ratio between the power injected into the amplifier and the power that's actually consumed by the load on the receiver side. And again, this efficiency is robust to the variation of the transfer distance and robust to the motion of the receiver. So, this conclude I think the main part of my talk, where I focus on talking about dynamic wireless power transfer and a new scheme where we use parity time symmetric concept to improve its robustness. Ending maybe 10 minutes or so. I like to switch gear and maybe deviate a little bit from the main theme of this symposium, but talk about a different opportunity that thinking about electromagnetics or photonics can open up in the context of power transfer. This is our recent work in thinking about photonic voltage transformer. So, as a background, I think we are all quite familiar with voltage transformation from magnetic inductive coupling. In this case, you send in a time varying AC voltage variation, for example, what you what we use of a 5060 hertz variation of the current and voltage, and the through magnetic coupling inductive coupling, it will raise the voltage or maybe decrease the voltage to a different value. And this has been very important for power distribution, because it allow you to reduce the loss inside the transmission line, and also allow you to do basically voltage and impedance matching between different part of the circuits. So it's widely used both in electric circuit, electrical circuit in power circuit, as well as in electronic circuit. However, this kind of setup works only for AC system only when the current or the voltage is varying as a function of time in both electronics and electrical circuit. And there's also an interest to to perform these kind of voltage conversion for DC power. Certainly, most of the modern electronic devices use DC power, and also there's substantial interest in thinking about DC power for higher power transfer as well. In this case, the inductive transformer in fact cannot be used because the magnetic field, the time that you have to use a time varying magnetic field to generate a current on the receiver side. The standard way to use to create a voltage transformation in DC power instead is to use a switch mode converter. And in this case, one has a again an LC resonator, but one have an additional thing, which is a switch a time dependent switch. And then basically one switch on and off in here periodically to charge and release the energy from the capacitor. And in doing so, by controlling the duty ratio of the switch, one can control the voltage ratio, the output voltage and the input voltage ratio. And this has been widely used, but it has a number of difficulties. One of them is that in fact it always required to use a magnetic inductor to build a resonator. And that's difficult to miniaturize and integrate in the context of solid state devices. There is no input output directly connected on a circuit so there's no input output oscillation. And moreover, because there is a time dependent switch, this introduced periodic noise. And this kind of noise is in many cases, in fact a primary source of electromagnetic interference. With this kind of challenges in mind, we can see there a completely different strategy for voltage transformation we call a photonic transformer. In this concept, we imagine a energy transfer a power transfer again through electromagnetic field in this case a high frequency by photon. So we will have a light emitting diode facing a sequence of photovoltaic cells connected in series. And in doing so, one can take a, for example, around a vote applied on the light emitting diode and convert to a much higher voltage equal to the number of photovoltaic cell connected in series, roughly speaking, times the input voltage. And some of the nice aspects about this is that in this case the input and output circuit are completely isolated electronically. And there is no switch noise because there's no time varying part on the electronic skill. And also, both of these components are miniaturized integrated and also can be scaled to relatively high power. So, here is an experimental demonstration. So our setup, we use off the shell component. So these are the silicon PV cell as the receiver connecting the series, and then got an last night LED connected in parallel. And then we would put one on top of each other so that each got an last night LED is facing one of the PV cell to really try to maximize the optical component between these two systems. And so this is the experimentally built circuit assembled. This is when it's open, you can see the got an last night LED, and you can see the photovoltaic cell. And then we close it together so that each of the LED is facing a PV cell. And here is experimental measurement, we measure the voltage amplification ratio as a function of input voltage, and we can get to easily a voltage amplification of our 30 fold. Anyway, the circuit that I'll show you has 100 led and PV cell pair, and the measure efficiency is a few percent. So now this idea, in fact, has been around, but maybe let me also show you the other measurement about the system, which is the noise measurement. So in comparison, we first use a filter setup to measure the noise characteristic of a conventional switch mode converters that we bought commercially. And in this case, if you look at the output voltage as a function of time, you could actually see fluctuations. And if you measure the electromagnetic field spectrum of the circuit, so what we do is we put a pickup antenna near the circuit itself and measure the electromagnetic field power spectrum pickup at the antenna. In the spectrum, you see the usual noise of the room superimposed upon that are these peaks, and these peaks correspond to multiple harmonics of the switching circuit. So there's inherent noise associated with this system. On the other hand, for our system, if you do the same measurement, the voltage is completely quiet, and the noise that you see is entirely the noise of the room. In fact, we turn the circuit on and off, and you see the noise characteristic stays exactly the same. So in other words, within the experimental capability of measuring, we cannot see any noise in the system. Now, as I mentioned, there has been this idea has been thought about for quite a while. In fact, people have thought about using transfer from laser to photovoltaic cell, but the laser is theoretically less power efficient. The LED to photovoltaic cell as a photonic voltage transformer has also been considered before. But if you look at it, the efficiency as we have measured is actually relatively low on the order of about a few percent. The reason for this is that the optical transfer efficiency from the LED to the photovoltaic cell is in fact quite low in the assemble setup that we have. Getting light out of LED has been a long standing problem in the design of light emitting dial. And the standard difficulty is that the at the interface between light emitting dial and air light goes through total internal reflection so that most of light is trapped inside the LED. On the other hand, for our problem, we're not trying to get the LED to go into air, we are trying to get it from the light emitting dial into the photovoltaic cell. Therefore, it is in fact possible to envision an integrated version where we place a index match spacer between the light emitting dial as well as the photovoltaic cell so that there is no light extraction problem. And using the same theoretical formalism that we developed and validated against our own experiment, we then perform a design where we envision a completely integrated system with a garnet nitride LED couple to garnet nitride photovoltaic cell, separated by intrinsic aluminum garnet nitride region, and using calculation that take into account all the non-radial recombination of the system, we show that in this case, again, if you have a 100 photovoltaic cell setup, you will get a overall efficiency beyond 90%, and a efficiency, sorry, the overall power transfer ratio of more than 95 with efficiency approaching 90%. And this would be a performance that's very competitive against the standard switch mode oscillator, switch mode converter, but in a completely integrated system with electrical isolation and without any noise characteristic. And we think that this is actually a very interesting opportunity to thinking about using photonic concept in the context of power transfer. And that let me briefly summarize what I hope to convey is that the thinking of controlling electromagnetic wave and electromagnetic field, and especially many of the new physics that's being developed for that purpose, in fact can be quite important in some of these power electronics related to the transfer of power. And to the end of my talk, let me acknowledge in particular, Sid Asawa Wawarari, who have contributed significantly to both part of my work, the talk here, as well as Dr. Bo Zhao, who also did very nice work in these photonic transformer, Dr. Bo Zhao is now a professor in University of Houston. So with that, let me stop here and thank you for your attention. Thank you so much, Shanwish. Thank you so so much for the great and systematic presentation for teaching us about the fundamentals and physics of power, power, wireless power transfer and photonic transformer. I have a couple of questions here. So, during the first part of your talk, you talk about this very fundamental ideas of self-optimally tuned system. So where the frequencies pick to basically optimally by the system without any feedback control, without any control. And I think it's very fascinating. And can you please elaborate a little bit more on this idea for those of us like me who don't really work in your field, but just to understand, you know, a little bit more about it, because it's very, very cool, seems like. Yeah. So this is, I guess you're referring to the physics mechanism of the setup. The setup is in fact building an oscillator. In other words, if you, and this you see that in, in the optical side, this would have been called a laser. In other words, you provide stationary power, DC power to the circuit or to the resonator. And the resonator select a particular frequency that has the lowest loss and that particular mode get amplified and therefore it oscillates right at that mode. So in doing so, you don't select the frequency where the field oscillates, rather the physics selected for you, because you build a resonator and they interact. So in this case, what we see, what the physics that we use is precisely this kind is that we think of these two resonator couple together. And as a result, the physics is such that they said that the information goes into the resonance of the of the system, and we simply provide the power to enable it to oscillate. Thank you. Thank you. So these ideas are wireless charging has been initially proposed by Nikola Tesla. Right. Almost 100 years ago. So was the experiments that you described earlier, the one that MIT 2007 that is really defined a breakthrough that made us think that wireless charging is effectively a technology we can use today. So, can you please also elaborate on that how we went from going from a futuristic idea to realistic implementable technology that we can use today. I think the MIT experiment is very interesting in many way because now you see that it actually work. It's a beautiful demonstration and it's a very striking demonstration of the concept that you can really do this. And also you can do it, essentially without line of sight with people blocking it at a skill that's important for many application. I believe that certainly the wireless power transfer concept has has done a lot of work before then and I believe that even the resonator transfer concept has been explored before, but really demonstrated in such a very striking way, to generate tremendous amount of interest, and really I think in many way is one of the turning point of the field. Thank you. Would you like to. Yeah. Sure, I want to have a beautiful talk as usual. Both topics are very, very exciting. The first one, the dynamic wireless transfer. So, what, how much power you could transfer, maybe I don't know you calculate the power, the energy per unit area of the two resonator maybe that's the right. That's the right parameters to consider. I now try to couple this into the wireless transfer if I do that for electric car, right. So, how high power you can go to, would that be the energy efficiency still maintain. I just want to see your comment about that in the second one related to the question to say an audience is one person asking what let's look at MIT experiment right there the people standing between the two. The transfer the receive the source and receiver. It's a magnetic wave coming in and human body has a lot of this away is a it's a salty solution. It's going to absorb some of this energy so what's, what's the effect on on human. If human is between these two objects. Yeah. Maybe let me answer the second question first I think in the MIT experiment, they are transfer powers on the order of a few tens of a watt, because they are using incandescent light bulb. Our usual experience of course you would not like that amount of electricity to go through your body usually, if you have few 10th of a watt light bulb and you certainly don't want to wire that drive that to go through your body. In their experiment and we certainly see that in our own experiment as well. The point is that the field between the resonator are mostly magnetic field. And the human body reacts far weaker to magnetic field than to electric field. So you are right that there's a lot of carriers in our body, salty water, for example, mostly a piece of salty water right so. So, if you have a car, if you have electric field, you're going to drive current and that will be dissipation, but the coupling to magnetic field is far weaker. So that's maybe the first point to me to address that, and we certainly see that in our own experiment as well. Our, our latest experiment, the nature electronic paper that we published last year has a power transfer level of about 10 watt. So, now, this is mostly in practice mostly limited by the circuit available for the MIT scheme. People have used that for stationary transfer to cars stationary charging electric vehicle with a with a power level on the order of a few kilowatt. That has been demonstrated and in fact I believe has been commercialized. So, our power electronic requirement is in fact very similar to what they need to use as well. So, we believe that with the right power electronic setup. The right kind of high power circuit, we should be able to scale this up to maybe a similar power scale of let's say, somewhere on the order of a few kilowatt to 10 kilowatt scale and that's the kind of skill that would be relevant and important for electric vehicle charging. Yeah, very, very exciting. Yeah, I think a few kilowatt to 10 kilowatt. Then you the pathway pipe I'm looking into, I say 50 kilowatt hour. So overnight charging is absolutely possible charging to full so that also open up opportunity for dynamic charging during driving as well where you consume several, really several kilowatt of energy during driving so that's the power that that's very exciting. So second question, Shanghui, related to your this a new photonic transformer is just fascinating to see an LED and a PV cell to do this with a potentially very high energy efficiency. So I want to understand a little bit more. The energy efficiency calculation right you show that is from photon energy to the wattage efficiency. And then I'm thinking about it's a it's a wattage as an input. And then I turn into photon and photon turn into wattage again. It's your calculation is from wattage to wattage or it's from. Okay, so that's the calculations from electrical electrical. Okay, let me give you a possibility argument why the high efficiency. If you think a little bit about it, state of the art got a nitrile ED is probably on the order of 80 something percent. This is photon to light. For photovoltaic cell, because the LED output is in sense is very narrow banded. Yeah. So the efficiency is also very, very close ideal. Yeah. So, so the main difficulty wasn't in fact the efficiency of the LED and the PV cell, but rather find an efficient way to get a photon to go from one point to the other. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that that that is correct so that's that's really cool. And the second question I shall play is now also come back to the amount of power. Yeah, you can what is in what is out because what is in this become photon photon become wattage again. Yeah, then how much power you can drive right so maybe this is still too early to see the limit. Yeah, yeah, possibly so first of all I think the power in this case just a skill as area. Yeah, right because the larger the area the better the heat dissipation you can do, you can drive the power up. Now, therefore it will be useful to just take a look at what's available. We can reasonably assemble even at this stage right the LED that we commercially easily can get is on the order of watt to 10 watt scale. Yeah. So that's the, the most naive thing you can do can get you that kind of skill, which is already quite useful for electronic circuit kind of a power transfer voltage transformation. So from that, I think if one really want to think about maybe kilowatt skill I think the scaling probably should be able to get us there. Yeah. Great. Yeah, thanks very exciting. Thank you. Thank you so much. I think there is much more to talk about during the panel discussion, and we can move to the second speaker, Reagan Zane. And I would like to introduce Professor Zane was been doing some, some exciting work on wireless charging technology for electric vehicles for transportation. Professor Zane is the funding director of the aspire NSF resource center. And I'm sure he's going to talk about it and aspire is an acronym that stands for advancing sustainability through power infrastructure for roadway electrification. The big NSF engineer center that involves nine universities, more than 65 faculty, and many more students and national labs. He has published more than 200 peer review papers and issued 30 patents, and he has raised more than 60 million research funding to date. So we are very pleased and happy to have you here today, and please you can start sharing your presentation and the floor is yours. What a wonderful introduction and I sure appreciate the invitation. This is a great audience, a great opportunity to have this discussion around wireless charging its implications for electric vehicles and charging systems and infrastructure. And, and ultimately how this impacts the energy storage community. I've really appreciate listening into the first presentation and Sean who is given a great highlight of the concepts for both static and dynamic wireless charging. And with my presentation let's take a step up into the bigger picture around electrification in for example the United States, and of course that can be expanded worldwide. And have a little bit more discussion around what are the motivations, what are the constraints and considerations. And ultimately, what are those power levels that we need to achieve what are the technologies what's the status of those technologies, and what's really happening you know what what can we be excited about coming and actually being happening here in our lives and being part of the EV transformation in the coming let's say decade. All right so that's the highlight that would all be covering I am the center director for a spire, and I'll give some, some views towards so we're energy storage fits and all of this with an emphasis here on kind of what are those motivations for for wireless charging in Let me start with just a brief highlight of who we are and how we're tied into this field so aspire is an NSF funded engineering research center with core funding from NSF and broad funding from multiple agencies and industry partners where we're headquartered here at Utah State University. We have core campuses partners here across the United States and in New Zealand. And we also have additional affiliated faculty at multiple universities in the United States, as well as collaborations with national labs, industry partners. As Simone had mentioned we have over 50 faculty, about 150 students working in the program today. I'll just give a brief highlight the number of the industry partners and the important aspect here is we have partners that are across the spectrum this is a complex challenge addressing how to really move forward with electrification in the industries. Everything from the utility to automotive markets to to transportation systems and infrastructure and it's going to take many to have the right perspective to find the right solutions and this is what makes it quite interesting as well for each of us as researchers in those involved in the field is we get to work across disciplines and work in areas and consider constraints that you know we never really imagined before. So it's a fun area. We have a broad committed team to making this happen. And I'd be happy to make connections to those here in the audience to various individuals across these industries and our research partners, as we find that the specific area you're most interested in as a broad team, you know we're committed to achieving sustainability, as well as equitable solutions for transportation in the future. And hopefully this impacts both the health, as well as prosperity and cost of moving people and goods, and quite importantly the equity and access to both transportation as well as health and an economic growth. We believe that this of course is tied into electrification that transportation has a big aspect to to address, and that widespread electrification will be very important to achieving these goals. And as I'll comment as we go through the presentation, we believe it's important to look not only at, for example, small life duty vehicles that are often on our minds, but across the full spectrum of vehicle classes and what I've broadly called here adoption groups meaning everywhere from personally owned vehicles to fleets, as well as from personally driven vehicles to a future of autonomous vehicles. All right so considering that let's imagine the, what we're up against. So as we consider you know broad widespread adoption of electrification and we'll be getting here to know where does wireless charging fit how how will that help drive this adoption and get us to kind of at scale solutions. But what is the challenge we're up against. So let's look at two of the primary markets that we're impacting and that would be the power and electrical generation and distribution market, as well as transportation. And here which I show here on the left hand side just indicating in this case with circles various power generation utility scale generation across the United States and similar considerations in Europe and Asia and around the world. On the right side I showed just an example here the United States and I'm giving an image from the federal highway administration, looking at the truck volume around the US is just an example of kind of the heartbeat of the transportation systems and network. What are the sizes of these networks and what are the implications of electrification in this space. You know it's instructive and in some ways to look for example at the size of the market. So, on the left hand side power generation roughly a $400 billion market per year of course that varies with electricity prices but is relatively stable. So we have the fueling industry for diesel and gas and in transportation in the US that's also roughly $400 billion now that was probably a number from a couple of years ago with price gas prices going up. This is probably closer to five to $550 billion. And also we need to look at emissions. You know these two industries have been competing for the past years on who has the highest or lowest depending on how you want to look at it in greenhouse gas emissions. And then we have similar constraints and implications for air quality associated with the localized emissions as well but bottom line is these two industries are similarly sized. We're not imagining transitioning for example, the fueling industry from liquid fuels to electric. We're really looking for example at taking the loading on the right putting it over on the left and of course this doesn't add up one to one the efficiencies are different to generation is different emission implications are different, but at the order of magnitude, we're looking roughly if you were to take 100% of our transportation network, move it to electric we're looking at roughly doubling the size of existing generation requirements in the US. We look at both energy storage as well as overall implications for utility. Another key consideration is what is the power demand what I'm comparing here is really the ultimately the energy demand between these two. But depending on what the peak power loading is going to be when we go to electric that depends entirely on how we charge these vehicles and when we charge them. There could also be a significantly higher increase in the power of loading on our utility. Now the big question is, will going to electric be a big disturbance that takes down the grid, or will going electric be a new significant resource for the grid that is is there is an aid for for growth. All right, so as we consider that we should also consider as I mentioned earlier vehicle classes which vehicle classes are going to be important. We address and focus our attention. And, you know, our answer we believe is across the board to really address this challenge we're going to have to be looking at all vehicle classes, because of the significant portion of the pie they represent, both in terms of our economic implications for a nation for our nation, as well as the emissions and energy use. And so here I highlight for example are smaller light duty sedans, you know roughly a third light, you know large larger light duty are best selling the Ford F 150. Luckily, with an opportunity here going electric next year. Another third roughly, and then we also look at trucks are shipping freight transportation. Again, this is how we move our goods around the nation. This too is roughly a quarter. Now of the energy so these simply can't be ignored. If you look at the lower portion of this pie, the combination of our trucks and our, you know the freight and transit to the nation to combine with the larger light duty vehicles. Now this is over 50% of the pie, and these vehicles require larger batteries for for achieving long range and have significant implications. If we don't properly address their needs. So as we consider no scenarios let's consider a scenario. Let's just replace the gas tank with a battery and in our charging essentially, you know pumping at the gas station essentially let's replace it with charging the gas station or now a fueling station. So what does that scenario look like we won't spend a lot of time here but let me just highlight it for kind of a worst case scenario which is those large vehicles a quarter of the energy and essentially emissions in in transportation. Let's look at the semi truck doing long haul routes. You know we have the Tesla some semi truck coming out to hopefully sooner than later, multiple others not coming into that market very exciting. What are some of the challenges were up against. Well let's look for example at a 500 mile range semi and keep in mind when we say 500 mile range much like when we say we have a 330 mile range Tesla or a 270 mile, you know Chevy bolt. So that's kind of this optimal quoted range. We're only going to use about 80% of that to stay safe with, you know not overcharging the battery and typically not running in the bottom 10% to give us a little bit of buffer. And then of course there's a variation in speed up and downhill we're going to have heating loads in the winter and we're going to have air conditioning loads in the summer so roughly speaking a 500 mile range rated vehicle is probably more like a 300 something range, realistic So in this scenario what what are the implications. Well I've given some relatively optimistic numbers here on costing so let's say just the battery cost and weight for that vehicle we're looking at roughly $150,000 for the batteries and about 15,000 pounds with some optimistic implications you know this is at $150 per kilowatt hour. Now, if you're thinking of, you know cell members maybe some are familiar in the audience, you know our targets are even below $100 per kilowatt hour even towards 5060 and $70 per kilowatt hour, or do we targets today. You know cell level here I'm talking about a pack level system rated for heavy duty applications in trucks, cooling battery management, you know communications a packaged battery pack system. Today, for something in this range we're looking at probably more like $500,000. So this 150 K is an optimistic target but certainly, certainly a target. Well challenge the 15,000 pounds for such a battery. Well, you know loading on an interstate highway major road with significant reinforcement you're looking at, you know maximum loads of let's say 80,000 pounds is 50,000 15,000 is a significant portion of that useful load. That's a challenge. How about charging the vehicle. Well if we're going to be driving the vehicle if we're looking for a charge let's say in 30 minutes or less and we have existing projects pursuing this today. We're looking at well over a megawatt certainly over even two megawatts per vehicle for these trucks. And these numbers of course scale down for lighter trucks, and then on down for for my duty vehicles, but at scale, this is a real challenge. Let's look at this more at an aggregated consideration so us, you know batteries required for all vehicles. Let's say that we took 100% and that's a big, big target you can scale that number however you like let's say 50% 80% just multiply what I have here. And 500 mile range, and if you think 300 mile range or 200 mile range is realistic then you can multiply that number, but just order magnitude where we're talking batteries alone for all of our vehicles to be converted electric with long range. We're looking in the many trillions of dollars here are the numbers that have shown her roughly $7.8 trillion. And I don't know if 770 billion pounds means anything to any of us, but, but giving an idea here of what what is the total amount of you know materials required your manufacturing you know capacity that would be needed. So this will be the total battery requirement to have all of our vehicles converted. So with this in mind then the big question for us particularly in the energy storage side is how long do these last. How long do these batteries be 10 year life, which case, you know we can roughly divide all these numbers by 10 for a rough annual cost for the nation and maintaining these vehicles. You know are they 20 mile, or excuse me are they 20 year, or is it more like one year two year five years so that depends significantly on how these batteries are used, and the battery solutions realized and so that's definitely something for this audience to be considering. The numbers relative to our charging systems. And then finally we look at the charging considerations, where are we going to charge these vehicles. If it's going to be the typical gas stations gas, you know fueling stations becoming essentially, you know, electric sub, you know system substations. One other big challenge is today, much of these are spread out and they're relatively small, you know station operators. In this case they have limited leverage with utility, they have high upfront cost to add these chargers and utilization is going to be a big question mark for them if they're going to have to put in, let's say one to $200,000 to put in a small set of chargers. How long will it take them to get that money back. All right, and then finally I'll give one more perspective. Let's take it down to the per mile perspective for operating vehicles. The kind of the driving scenario here gas tank to battery replacement is an assumption that we're going to do fast charging, you know in the last presentation we were looking kind of where those power levels needed. Well if we if we charge overnight. You know how many kilowatts will it be for a really small vehicle, how much would be for a large vehicle was we looked at that pie in the previous chart. The small light duty vehicles as a portion of this you know how long do they have to charge. Even for the small light duty sedans only a fraction of those vehicles are with operators owners that have a dedicated private charging where they can charge for 10 hours overnight dedicated charging at work. The vast majority of vehicles across the nation and we have roughly one vehicle per person or at least 270 or so million vehicles in the US. The majority of these vehicles are in urban areas where we don't have dedicated parking, private parking, and public charging is going to be a necessity. So to really go to masses even for the small light duty, odds are we're going to have to be looking at public infrastructure and probably we need to do faster charging so those vehicles can get out of the spot and make room for the next vehicle. So if we consider the sleets and autonomous vehicles and these large, these large duty vehicles, they're going to have to charge fast. All right so if we consider the scenario of fast charging. Let's say we want to charge in this 30 minutes 1520 minutes, you know we're not, we're not even considering the two or three or five minutes that it typically takes us. What are the costs to do so and I'm throwing a lot in here. This includes the charging costs. This includes the infrastructure for the utility, the cost of the utility the cost of the charger, and these are actually fairly optimistic numbers. If it's in the fast charging scenario, this means you're paying more for the electricity more for that high power charging capability, higher than you would if you were just charging at low rates at home. This is potentially in the kind of 10 to 20 cents per mile for sedans and, you know, 50 to $1 and even higher for semi trucks this is potentially a well above even gas and diesel costs. Okay, if you're doing this only occasionally, you know I drive my electric vehicles, I charge at home most of the time, I occasionally go on on long trips and I pay roughly the price of gas. I'm using superchargers, which is fine because it's a small percentage of my driving, but at scale that's simply not going to be the case we need to find the better solutions. All right, and then the other components we don't often think about what about the battery cost if we advertise that across the per mile cost of the vehicle. Now, how we use the batteries a big part of this implication, what are the costs for operating and using that battery. If we charge at higher rates higher what we often call C rates for the battery relative to the capacity of the battery. It requires, you know, more heating in the battery, it degrades the battery more quickly, and that means a lot, you know, shorter life. So this fast charging concept has a direct implication on what are the, what's the lifetime of, you know, the $7.8 trillion investment, taking it down to a per mile basis per vehicle. You know, 15 cents for sedans and 30 to even 80 cents, you know, these batteries could cost, you know, well, at least on order of the charging costs, or even more depending on that lifetime. So these will be critical considerations for for batteries. And then finally the weight. You know this has more to do with the freight industry than our personal vehicles, but there is a lost revenue tied to the weight of those batteries and that also needs to be quantified and then finally, the time it takes for charging. That's an implication for the fleet operators and owners implication for the truck drivers. It's also an implication for the land cost, you know, where are we putting on these vehicles where they're charging. All right, so I'm giving a little bit of this background to motivate. What are the implications for wireless charging where does it fit in here, and I'll ultimately be pitching here wireless charging is really opening doors for us that are well beyond just the convenience of whether you had to plug in or not. You could really change the game across all these numbers. Let's see if I can convince you of that. All right, so let's consider various perspectives. What are the implications of EVs and the charging infrastructure of moving to the future. And why do I want to put wireless charging in a broader perspective than just cutting the cord. All right, so from the environmental perspective, there's importance here of where are the emissions being generated localized emissions are a concern. I think we're all on board on how electric vehicles can impact localized emissions, including the, you know, equity aspect of air quality in these high density areas around, you know, high density roadways. So localized considerations are important but sort of the life cycle emissions and this includes the manufacturing the mining the generation of these batteries as well as the vehicles, all this needs to be taken into account. The grid decarbonization is a decarbonization is a big question. And that ties right into my comment I made earlier of what are the implications going to be on the grid. You know, high peak loads on the grid that are unpredictable are a disturbance to the grid. These require spinning reserves and resources that can be brought up very quickly on the grid. They're typically not renewable sources, or require significant amounts of energy storage on the grid, which, you know, from an energy perspective perhaps, you know, it may sound positive but that really drives cost up. So we need to find a combination of solutions that allow the electric vehicles and their infrastructure to be a resource to the grid towards decarbonization meaning we really need to look towards how do we support more utilization of renewable sources. So I'm going to come into question on on where the implications for the battery both on the vehicle and on the grid and we believe that wireless charging can have a positive impact on both of those. All right, from the user's perspective of course they're looking for lower cost, not equal cost or higher for moving people and goods. We're looking for a simple and easy experience. Those that have EVs today. We know this is exciting but that there's more that is needed to make this suitable for for mainstream. This is a seamless experience. Finally, we're looking at both personal, you know shared fleet and in a combination towards autonomous. We need solutions that are equitable as I mentioned earlier, not all people have a private garage where they can park overnight and have dedicated access to a charger overnight. Where are these public charging solutions and what will they look like. There's a lot of opportunity here where wireless charging can give us that that availability of charging in a broader perspective from the vehicle side to to reduce the cost and requirements on that vehicle, we've already hit some of the main points smaller battery really isn't a driving factor not just for cost, but also for volume and for weight on that vehicle longer life is essential and that's going to tie right into how we treat the battery. Again as you're probably seeing preferably, we don't want high charging rates and large depths of discharge on that battery. We want to just baby this battery along that's going to be where we get good cost effective realization of energy storage on vehicles shared infrastructure so that we can share the cost of that system and infrastructure across classes and types. We need to look at at all operating modes part urban areas highways rural areas. Right and then finally from the grid's perspective. What are the what's kind of the sum of all the things that I've said here to be a resource to the electric grid what we are looking for our opportunities where the vehicles are more connected. If the vehicles not connected to the grid it's not a resource to the grid, you know it's nothing we can do if you're not if you're not capable of providing power or drawing power from the grid you're not you're not on the grid. The more connected the vehicles are, the more likely we can leverage how and when we charge them in a way that it's a resource to the grid that drives this next concept of flexibility predictability and management. You know today the assumption is you pull up to the fueling station on demand nobody knew you were coming. We have excess capacity because we we need a room for all any vehicle to pull up to the fueling station when needed. You pull the pump you pull the you pull the trigger and you're you're you're you're fueling your vehicle. In this case that the equivalent of 10s of megawatts or above when you're using liquid fuel. That is simply a scenario there's a highlight in the previous slides is not tractable on the grid. What we need is, is flexibility and controllability and management. And the earth isn't that possible for the vast majority of vehicles out there, where we have programmed in we know where we're going. The vehicle in our Google maps has already programmed this in in our Tesla systems it's already predicting and showing us which chargers to go to before we even get to the charger Tesla vehicles are already no preheating you know preparing the battery fleets, you know days in advance where they're headed. We can show up to our fueling locations with with a prediction with a guarantee of charging, and this level of predicting prediction and control is ultimately what's going to be necessary to allow us to levelize and manage the loading across the grid, such that we can highly leverage renewable sources and reduce the, the cost of the infrastructure and ultimately the energy storage needs on that grid. All right, so with those pieces in mind. This is what we're after within the Aspire Center and why this drives us largely towards wireless solutions. Combined with a combination of wired capabilities in in the charging systems we're looking at both a combination of wired and wireless, where wireless is really what gives us that opportunity allows the vehicles to be connected more frequently, continuously, when you're, when you're shopping when you're parked at work when you're, even when you're operating your vehicle when you're in your parking garage all of these scenarios that wireless charging gives you that greater opportunity. So we're looking at the combination of the technologies themselves, as well as the integration together with the electric grid, operating across vehicle classes and quite importantly, this has to be done in perspective of the transportation both the infrastructure base payments parking structures, how cities are even planned around around vehicles and where and when they charge, as well as the systems for transportation how do we route to manage and operate vehicles. Can we do more intelligent co optimization by looking at that low hanging fruit where do we have available capacity in the grid at this particular time during the day. Is that aligned with where we have transportation demand and needs can we align these two, the better we can align them and directly deliver power to loans, the lower the energy storage requirements are. You know, both to the vehicle and the grid. Alright, so this is where a spider really puts its energy and emphasis. We see a great synergy with the future of more connected and autonomous vehicles, and the name of the game here is utilization, high utilization equals low cost charging. This is ultimately our goal and this is utilization of all aspects, predominantly, the things I've been talking about here utilization of the generation, the wires the transformers the substations, the whole electric utility that's that's feeding the vehicles, but we're also interested in utilization of the roads the highways, and even the vehicles you know today our vehicles spend 95% of the time part, the vast majority of them. So as we look to the future, can we can we flip that equation and get higher utilization of all of this equipment and drive cost down from moving people and guns. Alright, that's the perspective, and our pitch is wireless charging plays a central role in the level of flexibility and I and I pitch it this way so that again we see as we're looking at the technical solutions for wireless systems. We put it in this broader perspective, we're doing more than just cutting the cord we're creating flexibility, manageability and connectivity with that grid. Alright, within a spire I'm not going to spend a lot of time here I'm going to move into our details of the implications for for the system but I'll just highlight this requires multiple disciplines, multiple project areas and that's that's how we're approaching the problem that really drives us to the perspectives that I'm giving here today. So within a spire we've ultimately combined our projects into a high level of five. What we're calling umbrella projects but core areas where we have disciplines from transportation and power and data. And that's where we're looking at as well as consumer and adoption considerations in fast charging concepts pavement integrated wireless charging solutions that allow us to be connected more frequently more continuously, where the vehicles are often operating the bottom line here is we're looking to bring that charge to the vehicle to what extent can we move away from the model of cars going to the fueling station can we bring the fueling station to the vehicle. Essentially, that's where we have power as we can best leverage the existing capacity of our buildings and our infrastructure in the city. Let's consider this for our charging systems and that really drives brings us to that next major project of smart and secure charge management. This has to be considered together with the charging system. Finally, how do we integrate these systems transportation power user groups, etc. And how do we develop the market for this, where the policies required public private partnerships. We're looking at public roadways and combining them with with private interests and entities. Can we turn our roadways into no profit centers where it's no longer kind of the bane of existence for for taxes on roads but can these roads actually pay for themselves and these are these are questions we're addressing, of course, from the academic side we're quite interested in the workforce needed. All right, for that perspective we have many expertise I'm just going to skip that bottom section to address the challenges within the center we have, we have kind of two perspectives on systems level test beds to evaluate the capabilities. And there's some questions earlier on power requirements and and power needs and what are what are the, what are the, what are the implications can this be done with this drive adoption. So we're looking at this both from a modeled perspective and an operational perspective as well as hardware systems and testing so on the left hand side, we're building a full scale city and inner city simulator. Not alone of course so your national lab partners have already made significant progress in this area. We're pulling in all that we can from from any resource to get what we're calling an expansive co simulation platform and this is ultimately to address those larger scale questions if we improve efficiency 5%, what does that do for the implications for the overall system we cut costs by 5%. If there's a new policy that changes user behavior, these are the types of things that we would like to simulate at scale, meaning we'd like to show that if something were to happen in a certain narrow aspect of the system. How does that change the way a city operates in with respect to transportation and charging on the right hand side we're also operating a hardware systems test bed here us you we have a quarter mile test track we have electrified segments with four components in the pavements that allow us to evaluate and bet different concepts for wireless charging was shown he was already emphasized there's a lot of research around new solutions and techniques, both with inductive and also mentioned capacitive, but but that can all be embedded and evaluated and researched here, tested with vehicles, tested with the integration with the grid, we have solar power we have on site energy storage we have on site generation. So let's take kind of the combination how should this work in buildings and in vehicles and systems operating together. And then finally we're working with partners for pilots in public environments and I'll mention that a little bit later. Okay, so in these perspectives let's look at static and dynamic briefly highlight kind of where we're at with each of these and then we'll conclude with the mention of new research happening in the space. And this is an important component. And I'll highlight this here in a moment on kind of where does the charging need to occur, but there's still a significant portion of operating of our vehicles where we're going to be either part where we're spending 95% of the times I mentioned now. But even if we move towards better utilization of our vehicles, perhaps semi autonomous or autonomy may help drive us in that direction. But there's still a significant need for charging while we're either part where we might even call the semi dynamic, but, but you know when we're in a city, running a very low speeds approaching a stoplight when we're in the queue for for getting an in and out burger but whatever the application is static charging is clearly here to stay. Where is it so inductive wireless chargers for EVs provides convenience and most importantly provides that that convenience and ability to have more frequent charging. So when you pull into a parking opportunity or, or stop in a queue. These could be new opportunities for expanding the charge how does this mean what does this mean for the battery. I mean your battery is getting charged more frequently it's more like a hybrid vehicle than than a battery electric vehicle in the sense meaning it's quite possible in an urban city environment where you might have multiple opportunities for the static charging that and even semi dynamic charging. You can actually be able to operate that battery closer to 50% was small increase and decrease. This means that better be a very long life. All right efficiencies today, efficiency is really a question of cost. The theory is here to go even well above 95%. You know, and I shouldn't even say theory we have the hardware systems to run very high efficiency. But of course the higher the efficiency, the more the more copper the more the more field shaping and coupling and control this this leads to cost. So, in cost effective solutions we're in the 85 to 93% range relatively easily commercial systems today, give the examples over here on the right both light duty and even medium to heavy duty are out there commercially. Great fit for autonomy you can check this link for Hyundai and their vision of autonomous vehicles that will go and park themselves and utilize stationary charging and in a parking structure. They've announced the opportunity for wireless charging for the Genesis, their flagship vehicle from Hyundai coming out next year. BMW already had an option out each of the OEMs are investigating this. That's all tied to the fact that there's now a standard in place SAE is put in the 2954 J 2954 standard. These are for three kilowatts to 22 kilowatts with inductive charging. This is happening. This is the power I'm a show here in the lower right one of our partners wave IPT headquartered right here out of Utah. Now owned by adionomics adionomics has multiple demonstrations, not demonstrations multiple systems in operation in California, running up to 250 kilowatts both for buses as well as the port, port vehicles like forklifts. So we're looking at operations with trucks, and we're investigating opportunities with them to look at even higher power levels. I'll just give a mention of two pilot projects. Sorry, sorry to be moving quick but just highlights of what's really happening out there what is possible and not only possible but actually being demonstrated. We have two research projects that are there both research and development and even demonstration in operation now. One proceeds the other the 500 kilowatts is about a year and a half ahead of the one megawatt, but each of these are really happening so at the port of Los Angeles this is a project led by wave and partnered with Cummins our team here at USU Schneider Electric for the distribution systems. But this is in testing now so we are testing that the core modules well over 100 kilowatt in the labs today. This 500 kilowatt charger the wireless component is being built by wave and they've already tested the major components. This is being deployed in the coming year, or megawatt charger. This is possible. This is happening. So, we have a deal we project led by Kenworth, again partnered with wave with the utilities in each of the regions we're looking at hub and spoke operations around Seattle and then a regional whole route. Seattle to Portland is going to use one megawatt chargers on each end during the required 30 minutes stop for the truck driver. Again, these systems are in development, we're going to be seeing them deployed for demonstrations over the next year. All right, dynamic. This is also where we we see kind of the game change. Now, in addition to the multiple opportunities for charging while we're stopped. Now the pitch is, how about we actually charge the vehicles while they're while they're in motion and now this is necessary for vehicles are going to be operating more continuously more frequently, as well as running long, long haul for the run here for multiple hours. We don't have that static opportunity. That's the way we do with starting stop throughout the urban area. So, is this feasible is this possible well that the concept of course dynamic charging of vehicles been around, you know for for a long time. With conductive solutions we have overhead, you know light rail trolleys and these have been around for a long time now we see hybrid buses, you know running with these systems. We know the advantages of delivering power more continuously to the vehicle. Can this be done wirelessly and of course the answer is we've seen the previous presentation is yes, and it's happening today. All right, so what's the concept. We've already seen the basic scenario but then in a in a roadway environment how this be realized. Here's a broad vision, we have no roadside equipment. As shown over here number one that would be the utility connection, we would envision that roadside connection being, let's say once per mile once for every couple of miles. This is to have some ability to expand to large large scale. This doesn't require significant cost with multiple connections utility. This allows shared infrastructure over over many miles of charging. Then we would have coils in the pavement. This is showing for inductive charging I mentioned we're looking at a ride wide range of solutions both inductive. We have partners at Cornell University looking at capacitive charging technology, as well as others throughout the nation and we're looking at solutions, each of them now looking at some of the challenges were brought up in the previous presentation on dynamic charging. How is it that we can do this, you know, cost effectively and maintain high efficiency, despite the challenges of coupling. We have vehicles in motion and many solutions now are already not only in in development stage but actually in demonstration stage that have already solved scenarios for high coupling unit highway speeds for these vehicles offering down the road and then finally the receiver on the vehicle picks up that energy. And as far as the vehicle is concerned, it would see a relatively continuous pickup from the multiple coils and this is a careful combination of the design of those magnetic structures the coupling of the medic medic structure, and the control of the energizing of the unit from the roadway side individual units to energize in sequence with the receiver components as they come over those charges. So each individual charger on the on the roadway would see pulses of powers the vehicle comes over the vehicle sees nearly continuous power, as is continuing over the electrified segment, and the overall utility connection sees a relatively continuous power, because as I mentioned we might have one to two miles energized from one connection to utility that vehicle is on that mile for for for some time period. The only vehicles now are on that mile the only variation that the utility season power is the change in number of vehicles per mile throughout the day, and that's relatively predictable and can be relatively smooth. This is good for the grid. All right so over here on the right hand side just highlighting what what what would dynamic charging bring the key emphasis is good for the battery it's good for the grid. The infrastructure across classes like duty medium duty heavy duty all using the same roadway. It's good for a long life systems, meaning that we're really pushing the cost of the, as well as the complexity from the vehicle where we have some of the most significant challenges safety power density weight cost, moving it to the infrastructure and the grid where we can have long life payments, pavements, long life, you know electronics at the grid level now we're looking at 20 plus year systems as opposed to five to 10 year systems on the vehicle. And this can be done at scale, instead of having individual operators, you know a mom pop shop running their gas station turning it into a fueling station, certainly aspects that are going to be happening. But if we do this at scale on roadways we could have public private partnerships with roadway owners and operators around the urban region that may be operating and owning 10 Steven hundreds of miles of roadway. So they would now become one of the largest if not the largest loads to the utility in the region. They would have significant operating and buying power in and bringing the cost down for electricity. All right so that's that's a primary pitch for each of these. Another perspective and we'll be wrapping up here. As we look at the battery implications both for the on vehicle and and on the grid. So to consider this I've already mentioned, if we can run relatively continuous charging with 100% of the roadway where we're electrified, you don't actually even need a battery on the vehicle. Of course that's not realistic you know that would be similar to it to an electric train. But what could be realistic let's say we energized half of the roadway or a third of the roadway. These will be based and we can even strategically select the sections we electrify, where perhaps we have the heaviest demand going up hills. We're likely to be accelerating some of these regions might take the edge off of the energy requirements on vehicle. What the question now is what's the ratio of the, the, the roadway that's electrified if it's half, then we need to supply roughly twice the power that the vehicle takes when it's operating a truck running at highway speeds might be 100 150 If we are continuous that's the draw on the grid per vehicle, if we did a half of the road we're in the two to 300 kilowatt range, even less if we're only range extending the vehicles on the road. For sedans we'd be roughly no five to 10 times lower for those power requirements. If we compare this to fast charging off road. Now a couple of changes first you need more land we need place to put all the vehicles if we're in the next big question around this is what percentage of time are you spending charging up when you're parked versus operating while you're driving. If we're willing to park for the same amount of time that we're driving so we drive three hours we're going to park three hours drive three hours park three hours. Well first we need enough land for roughly half of the vehicles that are operating to be parked somewhere charging. That's a challenge and a cost. And then second the ratio of those two determines the, the peak loading on the grid and the peak charging rate required on the vehicle. If it's one to one. It's the same so the instantaneous requirement on the vehicle is the instantaneous requirement while you're charging three hours driving 100 kilowatts for a truck three hours charging 100 kilowatts you would maintain your state of charge. But that's of course not what we would do we want to charge in 30 minutes 20 minutes 15 minutes. Now we're getting into ratios of five to 10 X or even higher. That's where we get up into the multiple megawatts a requirement on the vehicle. And that not only hurts the demand and requirements for the battery on the vehicle. Now we have C rates that that could be, you know, two three C four C even higher, which implies cost and aging on the battery. And we have high power peak demand on the grid, which implies cost on the grid. All right so those are challenges we're looking to address with with wireless charging. Lastly, I'll just highlight the little video from from our lab. This is the test track at us you showing an example and electric bus where we're evaluating scenarios of networked control and charging, indicating now what this would look like, you know charging systems in the roadway, let's say a couple 100 kilowatt, you know receiving pads on the vehicle. Same concept with the reduced size pad could be on a light duty vehicle receiving a fraction of that power to hit the same demands for the light duty, all with the same infrastructure, and of course shared infrastructure is the key for for equity. All right, I'm going to run out of time here. There's a lot more that that we could talk about. I do have some numbers and thoughts here around kind of which miles would we electrify. What are the implications for costing how does this compare to liquid fuels, people just briefly highlight that here. As we look at roadways you'll get again a significant portion of our miles driven which is here on the right hand side 58% of miles driven are in the cities. A lot of this could be handled with the static charging some of that may be plug in at home. Some of that may be wireless at home. But again, for those vehicles that don't have private garages and private parking in our bigger urban areas. This could be a significantly significant portion solved by static charging and semi dynamic meaning low speed dynamic charging in the urban area. Where do we really need the, the continuous dynamic charging. Well, a key consideration are these are you know interstates 2% of the paved roadways account for roughly 30% of miles driven getting from city to city this is really how we are motivated to to select one car versus another. So we've seen scenarios you know the Nissan leave from the first came out. You know it should have covered a big portion of our driving, but it didn't because we want a vehicle that can not only drive in the city can also get from city to city. Dynamic charging could break that barrier and allow us to have smaller battery vehicles, cheap vehicles, potentially we could have 10 $15,000 vehicles for the masses without private charging infrastructure requirements. If we can guarantee that those same vehicles can drive from LA to New York, and these interstate highways could get them there. Over here on the right hand side, I can repeat that image of the interstate highway system, specifically around the freight corridors, this is essentially a roadmap for how this can roll out and even who could pay for it you know let's start with a high density trucking routes, and you know they don't have a good solution. If we start there and then work our way towards you know applying that same infrastructure for medium duty and then down into light duty as adoption grows. This could really pay for the system finally quick highlight on cost comparisons, kind of starting at the bottom of my list here 400 to 600 billion. That's our fuel costs for diesel and gas and what percentage of those are going to get converted to electric that gives us a rough idea of the numbers we're talking about that could be shifted to our infrastructure and our charging costs. If we go the full battery route high high range. All batteries is going to be too cost it's going to be too expensive. I should these numbers again are based on $150 a kilowatt hour for systems, you know even if that could be cut in half which is almost unrealistic. There's battery systems not cells. This is a large number to electrify all the interstate highways in the ballpark of $30 billion this is for two lanes in each direction for the entire interstate system. It's something to seriously consider. With that in mind, let me just wrap up by mentioning that these systems are happening studies have been performed we ran a study together with our partners of Purdue, Colorado State and infrastructure firm a come in and around la and evaluated kind of as the, how would this roll out. Well, you know if we don't have all the interstates covered. You know how do we get vehicles to convert. Well, again, freight fleet operated vehicles are controlled routes, maybe a good low hanging fruit and we evaluated examples, you know, such as the 710. We found the infrastructure cost in this scenario, over the lifetime of the system starting with zero adoption at the day it's put in over let's say a 30 year life of the system with high adoption occurring after about 15 to 20 years. The cost of that system over its full life. We found that the, the cost of that infrastructure could be covered with roughly 25% of the fuel savings, going from diesel to electric. All right, these things are happening out there, a partner electric on is actually run a demonstration in Sweden, over, you know roughly a mile over a kilometer of electric roadway and now the Swedish transportation authority based on the evaluation of that system has made the world now a permanent road running this electrification for wireless charging and they're also investigating overhead power lines for heavy duty so these are really happening around the world here in the US within Aspire. There's over $30 million recently committed to multiple pilots in multiple states that our partners are involved in very exciting time to see these things coming out, but now is the time to be, you know, pushing our ideas for improving both the wireless charging systems and, in my view, retuning our energy storage or battery systems to fit these scenarios here at us you we're looking at scenarios with pavement integrated concepts with our civil engineering teams or mechanical engineering teams electrical teams are magnetic coupling, you know scenarios to to improve that coupling factor and efficiency that Sean who he had mentioned. And all of these things are being considered. We also have a national partner University of Auckland I'll just highlight as we look at, you know, the, the, the significant implications that now electricity has pulled out from MIT. And a lot of the press and excitement that has come over the past 10 years from from their experimental I'll mention, you know, our partners here in Auckland they've been at this for over 30 years, and they've deployed systems and factories and infrastructure, they've deployed them for for light duty, medium duty. And now we're looking towards heavy duty systems. And here's kind of the history and scenario of the companies that have followed that technology for a brief highlight these things are really happening. All right, our pitch combination of static and dynamic wireless charging energy storage on vehicle, low to moderate c rates, short range this is what's going to bring that cost down for the vehicle let's just baby that battery on vehicle and push the emphasis towards the grid. Let's focus on grid. Let's focus on scheduled managed charging so that energy storage on grid isn't the first line of defense, I think that should be the second line of defense. Then energy storage will be a critical next factor to show how we can best improve the integration with renewable sources and bring down the overall cost of the system to go back to that long haul scenario we can bring that truck down to let's say 100 mile truck instead of a 500 mile truck. It's quite feasible. Now we're looking at somewhere in the range of 30 K for the battery pack and your maintenance operations it's all simpler in that vehicle 3000 pound battery, very much in a feasible range. Let's say 200 kilowatt continuous power from a 50% electrode roadway. Now we can be looking at charging costs, you know roughly in the tens of cents per mile. All right, and let's not forget this is fun. This is a great way to get people excited we have programs with middle school students high school students. This is really a field that can get people engaged and excited about sustainability our environment, and and really rethink you know who wants to be an engineer. Thanks for your time. Feel pretty contact me. Do you highlight your given below. Thank you so much. I can that was great. I mean, great overview of all the implications of wireless charging. Can I have an electrification transportation today. He would like to ask questions would like to kick off the parent discussion. Hello, I would like to ask a question. Reagan thank you for outstanding talk very exciting center you're running over there. Now this remind me looking at what you're talking about. What's happening is Stanford right here in political Institute of Energy, we have bits and wads initiative, the EV 50 program. You are running, try to help enabling 50% penetration of electrical vehicles. Certainly this ambition will go bigger example or try to target nearly 100% right. A lot of a lot of issues that you talk about the very exciting to ask a look forward to certainly offline discussion. So I'll stand for in your in your center we could work together. So I have maybe I'll start with a one question. And for the time consideration Sean way if you want to turn on your video I think it's a good time as well this question is also relevant to you. So, I'm here to learn my so looking at the wireless charging. So that means you will carry the inverter. Let's say while it's charging on the car you carry the inverter on the car right because you're going to do wireless that's AC to wireless AC, and then this inverter in the car. If you try to figure out if inverting the car given certain power, inverter carry some ways so that's one consideration how much way you need to carry. I probably need to get educated a little bit right, make more for you, Reagan, and the second one is once we go to high power, the energy, if any efficiency the laws will become heat. Once the heat will distribute it is for the case of car is on the more close to the car side or more more close to the source or just somewhere in the air right. So how do I think about the heat dissipation, then going to the very high power. Certainly, you know from AC to inverter become DC before you're going to the battery this energy loss as we assume if I remember correct that's 5% loss. So even a wireless transfer probably in the best case you also have 5% loss. So I just want to get educated a little bit Reagan and also Shanghai from you as well both of you about the heat, thinking about heat loss. Sure, I'll take a quick stab and since we've all run a little bit over, see if I can keep these short and give each of us time to answer. So here's my vehicle, you know, here the big question is the weight of the receiving system you mentioned inverter, we essentially have the rectifier. It does require you know some of the matching network for the resonance and operation so typically we're biasing this towards more simplicity on the components that are on vehicle to reduce that weight, but that has implications on coupling and efficiency. So there are a number of scenarios around that but bottom line is it's a comparison between the weight of that receiving unit, compared to the weight of the battery we're replacing, as well as perhaps the convenience and connection and connectivity that is providing on the systems that are you know for the, for the few kilowatts to 10s kilowatts were, we're kind of in 100 less than 100 pounds for the weight on the receiver for the megawatt charger we're probably in the hundreds or not probably we are in the hundreds of pounds, but less than 1000 pounds for sure. And now we're looking at, you know, preferably replacing, you know, many thousands of pounds of battery to really get this to a long haul scenario. So that that's the comparison. As far as the, the heat dissipation for a high efficiency system, you know, we can think about biasing the losses to one side or the other but typically to get such high efficiencies. And here I'm looking at grid to grid to battery where the numbers I was giving kind of that 85 to 93% range. That in that that's essentially comparable to the efficiencies of existing plugin chargers so a good portion of those losses are in the grid level line frequency AC to DC conversion before we even get to the wireless charging scenario, and then in the in the final DC to DC management of the vehicle. So only a small portion only a few percent of that is actually in the wireless charging unique aspects of that AC to DC system from grid to battery, and to get such high efficiencies where we're roughly equally splitting those losses between the engine and, and the inverter, you know, included in the roadway, and in the pavement distribution management of those losses are a question, typically on vehicle, we're, we're, we're really looking at low cost and in simplicity so whatever we can do to avoid requiring a vehicle is where we're headed so typically we do have some level of liquid cooling but it's based on the radiator that's already on the vehicle that's how we manage the distribution if possible. We'd like to get to purely passive cooling and if there are those in the audience, not thinking about this. That's really where I think the cost effectiveness of these systems are going to come into play if we can get rid of any type of active cooling and management that that's both a reliability question and it's a cost roadway and pavements is awesome similar to your question we have partners, looking at lower power modules you put multiple modules on the vehicle would say 20 kilowatts or less per module, their motivation there is to have again all passive cooling and limited cycling of the temperature in the pavement that impacts reliability and lifetime of the pavement. We've moved to the high power like our megawatt stationary charger. You know this is liquid cooling with chillers no matter what it's a high power density within a square meter, you know having a megawatt power transfer. That's a real challenge, and you know that drives up the cooling and management, the real drive for efficiency is not, not necessarily the, the energy and emissions, because we're already significantly improved by going electric. You've nailed that you hit the nail on the head. So those are the key aspects of those two points from my perspective. You have additional common. Not too much I think from a technological point of view it will seem like the. I think that what Regan has said that the heat management thermal management must be extremely important for these things. I'm just thinking from a more physics side of the things it will seem like significant part of that come from the coil yourself because basically it's always the competition between delivering power to the load, and then the parasitic loss which mostly on the electromagnetic side come from the coil itself so that's where the heat generation is going to be. So in that regard I think the thermal management is about in fact a fairly localized area and try to get those heat out as much as you can. Yeah, I'm just thinking, as Regan is saying a megawatt system even at 5% loss is a significant amount of heat that's generating that system is a gigantic heater sitting right there. But but but also consider you know, megawatt is necessary if you're going to do a plug in fast charging of these larger vehicles and so yes, very similar challenge with the plug in system and now you're imagining, you know, who, who's going to be out there plugging these cables and of course there is a standard, you know, progressing for plug in charging it will happen but boy there are challenges in cooling that cable for a plug in system. This remind me a project in a bit more initiative for faculty here, Professor can good work on how to cool the cable. If you think about megawatt of power pumping into your electric car fascinating problem. Well back to you, Simona. Yeah, thank you. I have a question for Regan it's a very technical question that is related to energy storage actually battery. So you mentioned a few times during your talk that one of the advantages of wireless charging is to reduce battery size. And that leads to having a charge sustaining operation rather than the usual charge depleting operation that we've seen in electric vehicles. And so that's a good news that we can reduce amount of kilowatt hours we have to put another vehicle. And one of the challenge that comes to have reduced size battery is the C rate, C rate goes higher up. And with that also the heat losses right. And so I'm thinking about probably from a aging standpoint to degradation standpoint to reducing size of the battery might not be the best things to have. So if you're going that way, are you envisioning to replace battery pack, instead of eight to 10 years like every three four years. And what is the type of, you know, the tradition trajectory you're expecting to have in those batteries that are being charged for wireless charging. Great questions and. And if we had all the answers to those there wouldn't be a need for a research center here. I mean, those are precisely the type of trade offs and there's a lot of complexity complexity and you've highlighted many of them and the interdependencies of each of these and that that has a lot to do with what ultimately we would resolve in this in this broad simulator that that we're developing. In general, there's clearly going to be a trade off between the two. So, as you mentioned, if we if we continue down this path of very high range and large battery packs on vehicles. It's hard when they're operating is relatively low because they're huge batteries. But if you need to charge them very fast, not only are they a large battery but they also have a high C rate. So that's a bit of a challenge for the large vehicles are large batteries. So odds are we are not going to go to the other end of the extreme so if we go to the other end of the extreme of a very small battery. It means both we know not only are we going to have higher C rates when charging that battery, but we're also going to have to have a lot of the infrastructure electrified meaning that vehicle can't go very far off off the electric road without running out of without running out of charge. So we see a hybrid here it's probably going to be a mix here where we're going to have a portion of the infrastructure electrified but vehicles are still going to have a reasonable range. You know, at least, at the very least 30 miles but probably 100 miles is a reasonable number to allow you to get to the vast majority of roads around the main arteries that would be primarily electrified. In which case we still have a decently sized battery, and now it's a question of what portion of those roads are electrified and do you still need fast charging that's going to be a big question if if we get to the point where enough of the static and dynamic wireless charging allows us to move away from fast charging at least very often. Then if we have now half of the roadway covered or a third of the roadway covered or that portion of your time you're you're finding another charger. That means that for a battery of 100 miles and let's say you're you're taking only five or 10 miles when before you get to another segment that's electrified. The charging is probably still at it's C over to C over three. You're relatively low C rates for the wireless charging the only time you're really going to run into trouble is that you've got a vehicle you're running on primary electric roadways, but occasionally you go to a national park or some you know off region, and you don't have that frequent charging available but there's a high power charger that will get you charged up quick. That might mean that same batteries going to be capable of a high C rate charging. It may be that you only do that once a year or you know once you know for vacation if that's the case than the incremental degradation on the batteries probably acceptable. So those will be some of the trade offs that will be addressing. Thank you. Thank you. We have a we have a question from the audience to Reagan actually. I was just asking if you could provide some insight about to where the major cost of wireless power transfer technology come from. And what I would like to add also maintenance. How much does it cost to maintain the type of infrastructure. Yeah, I know it's definitely part of our ongoing questions that's why you know I showed some pictures and images of different scenarios we're considering with pavements with our civil engineering partners as well as our infrastructure firm partners that. These are these are clearly the key questions, you know maintenance and operation it is critical these payments are going to be long life. So there will be a significant component of design and implementation, similar to the way we design electronics for high temperature environments for for solar arrays. There will certainly be long life systems. So we are targeting 20 plus year life electric systems and of course a small portion of those will still fail. And what is the maintenance and operation we're envisioning concepts including for example, precast pavements and high density urban areas. You know in these regions, you know if we were to ever attempt to do the 710, which would take 20 years just get approvals. So in these regions construction cost is probably the highest cost of the whole, the whole system so anything we do has to be aligned with the maintenance and operation and schedule of those roadways we're not going to go tear out a roadway just to add the electrification, we need to be on that maintenance schedule when was that road needed, needing upgrade and maintenance in the first place, and we need to get in and out quick and so for those regions were considering for example precast pavements that you know local precast yard would take the electronics segments of lanes, and then those could come in on a truck and be dropped in maintenance could be on a schedule now if we lose, you know one mile might have you know three or 400 of these charging layer, you know segments. If one goes out we're integrating, you know we have to build it up so that one failure doesn't take out the whole right run so it's not like an old Christmas tree line system but it has to continue running and if you lose one out of 300 you know for the vehicle it's not going to impact at all. So the idea is, you know there'll be some rate of failure of these units, but that won't take the whole system down and now you would have a schedule on the one three five year where you come in you pull that pavement and you drop in a new one so that would be kind of a fast using maintenance operation schedule, but scenarios like this definitely have to be considered for for larger deployment. Absolutely. Yeah, thank you. Hey, back to you I think we are wrapping up. Yeah, we need to wrap up I mean you, you're working on fascinating topic both of you. Very fascinating. Very new to me too so I'm learning so much and as I learn I have more questions so. Yeah, learn so much. I think we probably need to conclude today's panel. Adjusting can you put up the holding slides. I will be wrapping up today's symposium. Let's see. So to advertise our next two event for storage action potion, our own Sally Benson, and on September 10 and also Dan Riker they will be talking about a different aspect of energy storage of also fascinating problem as well I will encourage everybody to attend. Next slide. So follow us on Lincoln. We are very active try to bring the whole community together and using a storage extra initiative platform. And also we have our storage X tech talks. First Tuesdays of the month. So we have two very exciting speaker that's a bottom left team about a and Dean done to talk about their fascinating battery research. What high Stanford has a professional education program. You know we saw this number of courses right there and this is we try to entertain a professional education for you to learn about energy. With that, I will conclude today's symposium. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.