 The battle for 2023 continues as the People's Democratic Party PDP stalls its zoning decision and members of different zones express interest in running for the office. And Deputy Governor of Zamfara State Madi Ali-Gusso fights for his position as the State House of Assembly moves to impeach him. Well this is Plus Politics, I'm Mary Annacol. The People's Democratic Party PDP has stated that it has not yet zoned its presidential tickets to any zone of the country. The Deputy National Publicity Secretary of the party Ibrahim Abdul-Ahi noted that the party has learned sufficient lessons in time past over zoning of presidential tickets saying it will handle issues better this time. Now the South East has been clamouring for equal presidency come 2023 but individuals from the North and South have reportedly expressed intentions to run for the same seat. However the absence of zoning of the tickets Confucian seems to abound in the political party arena as we speak. Well joining us to discuss this and more is Deputy National Publicity Secretary of the People's Democratic Party Ibrahim Abdul-Ahi. Thank you so much for joining us Mr Abdul-Ahi. Thank you very much for having me. Interesting. Exactly is the plan of the People's Democratic Party for 2023, there's so much that's been happening within the party, we've seen governors, former governors coming together to galvanise the support of the National Working Committee as to a way forward for the zoning issue but where does the PDP stand right now being that there are calls from the Southwest, the Southeast even the South-South for the party to zone its ticket in that direction? Well it is what you expect in democracy especially in the political party the size of the PDP. You have nothing less than 80% of Nigerians as members of the PDP at least the voting class. Those who are conscious of democracy and those who are in the arena as Democrats constitute over 80% and they are in PDP. Now when that is the case you are likely to have the situation that we have which is having everybody interested in buying for one office or the other especially that of the president. Now PDP's zoning formula has been a gentleman agreement from the incipient stage in 1998 under the military in the build-up to handing over to the democratic government in 1999 which President Oshogun O'Vassinger succeeded in becoming the first democratically elected president after the military handed over. Now conscious of the diverse nature of Nigeria as a heterogeneous society with people of different belief and value system, people from different zones and divide and religious believe. It is only fair that you begin to think of getting people to appreciate zoning so that if you have a taste of power you the next time hand it over to the next zone so that they can also have. That was it. It was not contained in our constitution. It is not because the mistake Nigerians make often is to assume that it's a constitutional thing. Now it's a gentleman agreement to accommodate all the members of the PDP and people who will have the opportunity from other zones to test power. So if it comes to the north it is expected the next time to go to the south on the basis of gentleman agreement but we are getting to a stage where we are appreciating that having come this far it is important we begin to look at the best man for the job across the divide who come from the south who come from the north regardless of that agreement which we had in 1998. So in the build up to 2023 PDP is interfacing now. It's engaging all the critical stakeholders so that we will come up with informed decision as to where the presidency will be zoned to which we will communicate to Nigerians in due course. So those who are of the school of thought that all of a sudden the PDP has decided to reach Chasajais and throw its doors open to all zones to come and play. And these calls or these sentiments are coming from the people in the south who say well it's now our turn. Why is the PDP deciding to ask for everybody to run for the office and may the best man win? Why was this not done initially? And some people feel that this is a targeted attempt by the PDP to rob them of their opportunity to run for these offices. What do you have to say about that? The call by the southeast or the entire south as it were is not misplaced. But if you are to compute the number of years that the north has held power from 1999 to this period that we are 2022, you will discover that the south has held power even more much as we are not looking at things from that perspective. Olucia Gunobas and John I told you in the beginning had eight years from 1999 to 2007. He was succeeded by President Yerradua who was short-lived. After about two years to three years we lost President Yerradua and Goodluck, Jonathan and another Southerner continued until about 2015. Now if you put this together you will discover that the south has held on to power for an 11 or more years in the 15 years of the PDP. So if that line of argument were to be rational, the north will have more excuse than the Southerner. But that's not where we are going. We are looking at it from a perspective where having come this far, let Nigerians enjoy the benefit of producing leadership from merit, leadership from competence, leadership from capacity, leadership from ability are supposed to do any that gentle man agreement or gentle way agreement that we have had from you know, 1998 to 2015 PDP lost power. What we are saying is that if it so favours the south as it were for the ticket of the presidency, which is in the table and we are discussing today thing, the entire northern Nigeria and of course the south family of the PDP will rally behind the south to produce the next president. But as we speak that decision is not yet arrived at. We are working hard to ensure that we produce for Nigerians competence, character, capacity and the ability to salvage them from this despair and hopelessness in the land. So this is why PDP is taking caution and applying a lot of restraint in concluding on the issue of zoning. But you rest assured that in the fullness of time and that's not distant time from now, PDP will bring for Nigerian salvation and it will lead them to the light, which is lying at the end of the time. I want to probe a bit further on the issue of competence and leadership and all of these things. You make it sound like, well, if you throw it open, then I mean there might just be one zone or a particular person that might have all of these characteristics. But isn't it true that there are these kinds of people in every zone? And when you're talking about competence, there are competent people in the north, there are competent people in the south, there are also competent people in the north central and the south. So really, when we talk about these things, it makes it look like somebody is just going to emerge that has all of these characteristics, but we do have these people. So again, what is the modus operandi? Or how are you strategically going to peak this person that you term as well-vasted or capacitated with this kind of leadership qualities? I mean, I'm sure that every zone can produce those people, but then it boils down to something else, doesn't it? And what is that something? In democracy and in constitutional democracy, like the one we practice, it is only natural that you allow people to exercise their freedom of fundamentals. And that is what is happening around the PDP, appreciating that every person is entitled under the law to try. But again, we have come so far with the zoning formula. Having attained this height and democracy today, our democracy is not nascent, relatively. It has come over 20 years and we are beginning to appreciate that it is time that we allow the best to come out of the system. If we narrow it to zone continuously, for how long are we going to allow the opportunity? And don't forget, democracy is about contest of ideas. Just when you are thinking one zone is good, another zone will tell you that they are better. And that's why I'm asking, should we base this only on competence? Because again, it makes me think that maybe the PDP before now never ever, at any point, thought about the issue of competence and true leadership qualities, you just probably gave a flag bearer that ticket based on sentiments of zoning. That's what it sounds like, except you can correct me. You see, what is important to appreciate in democracy is that it's an evolving thing. It continues to evolve over time. And for us to advance the frontiers of democracy, we grow to be a formidable structure where the peculiarities of the concept of democracy will be open to everybody that is involved in the system. In 1998 and at the formation of the PDP, much of what you are talking about were not factors that were considered. So it was a nascent democracy, as it were. We were trying to raise it to a level where we seem to have attained now. Therefore, if you have to do it the wise way, is to allow everybody to try. And don't forget one thing, anywhere throughout the globe, democracy is about majority, it's about number. It is a contest for the majority, for them to have their way and the minority will have a say. We are not looking at the South as a minority now. But what we are trying to say is to aggregate where a liberal fortune will come. If the North, for example, will give us the opportunity to produce the presidency as opposed to the South, why not? But if the South will have that opportunity for us, why not the South? What we are trying to do now is to leave the whole thing open to the system itself and to Nigerians, for them to see. If after evaluating all the factors available for us at the table, and we are analyzing them every bit of the way, we will come back to Nigerians and tell them that these are the options that are open to us. If Nigerians prefer democracy, I mean PDP back in power, which I have no doubt they do, then they will have to go with us at the decision. We are not saying the South will not have it. We are not saying the North is having it already. We are not also saying the North cannot have it. What we are trying to do now is to evaluate the options that are open that will advance our electoral fortune. We are aggregating the ideas and the views of Nigerians and come up with informed decision, which will be let out for the consumption of Nigerians at the fullness of time. So the haste with which the South is asking for this is a misplace, if you ask me. I don't have a problem with that, but what I'm saying is that no need for the apprehension. The right thing will be done under an informed and decisive leadership, like I have always said, led by Senator Dr. Ioche Aiu and the National Working Committee. These are seasoned technocrats and Democrats, people who have carved niches for themselves. They know what democracy is about. What is important is the advantage of PDP, winning election and salvaging Nigerians from despair and despondency, which seem to have pervaded the land. If you ask me, that is the way to go. But the PDP is looking at the options available on the table and they are weighing it and we shall get back to Nigerians in dukes. Let's talk about a statement that was credited to a PDP leader in the South. I'd like to call to him, although he said this under conditions of anonymity, he said the zoning of the presidency seems not to be having a headway as governors want to dictate the process. So I'll put that question to you. What exactly do you think that the governors are trying to achieve here if they be not working in tandem with the leadership of the party and maybe they want something else? What do you think they're driving at? Well, I'm not sure the leader in the South who spoke about that issue was quoted rightly. But supposing he was reported to have said that, what I expect Nigerians to understand and appreciate is that we have in place governors today as chief security officers of their state and the people that are holding the fortune of the PDP. 13 of them are the custodians of the party before the National Working Committee came on board. What we're trying to do is to ensure as critical stakeholders and as people that are driving fears in their respective states, they are consulted. You wouldn't expect in a democracy a sitting governor not to have a say in an issue, but certainly they will not be the ones to dictate one piece. Not under Senator Dr. Iote Ayu who was the former Senate president of the Federal Republic who became a PhD at the as far back as 1984. This is, he's been in the academy, the academia and he left there and joined politics in no distant time he became the Senate president. And after that he was a founding member of this party. I'm not sure there's any governor sitting in the PDP who was there when PDP was conceived in 1998. But Iote Ayu was and is about one of the three surviving members of the first 18 and later 13 people that formed the PDP. The other two, Asule Lamidou and Jerry Ghana. So you don't expect anyone to come out there and intimidate Professor Iote Ayu. In any case, he was a minister, a member of the cabinet at least four times in different government. Minister of the Federal Republic of Nigeria is coming with rich pedigree and political like capital. He has his deputy in the south and the person of Taufiq Arapaja. This was another deputy governor, a former member of the National Assembly, a former ambassador of the Federal Republic, I mean, his ambassador of the Federal Republic. I mean, representing Nigeria. So these are people who have a niche. If you come to the North here, the deputy national chairman was an ambassador as well and is aspired for governor in his home state of Iobi. The same thing applies to the National Secretary. He was a senator of the Federal Republic. He also aspired for governor of Imo State and the same thing with the National Organizing Secretary, a member of the National Assembly, a former commissioner from his state and of course, former military officer. And there are so many of them, the list goes on. We cannot tell you the quality of presence. We can be able to tell you how many quality persons we have there. There are too many. The 21 members of the National Working Committee are people who have stamped their feats on the sands of time and will continue to assert relevance in the annals of history in Nigerian politics. So they cannot be intimidated by the governor. We are trying, I mean, governors. We're trying to do things the right way. We are being in time. We are discussing with them. They are not the only ones. Only yesterday we had meeting Dina, meeting with the National Assembly caucus of the Senate. And we talked about wide range of issues. They are critical stakeholders in the project. These are people that must be consulted so that we arrive at a page in the fullness of time. We will meet former ministers of the PDP in Newcastle. We will meet the House of Representative caucus. We will meet everyone that matters. So meeting the governors and interfacing with them is only to advance the frontiers of the PDP so that we will aggregate what are their misgivings in their respective states, what are their suggestions on ways to advance the course. That's essentially more than more. And in all of these strategies, which I mean, I'm not in any way trying to put it down, but we also realize that the PDP is one way or the other become somewhat of a minority party. And some would say that it has become a southern party of sorts. I mean, let's for one or two that are sprinkled around. But in looking at the governors, what about the states that have been taken from you, for example, Cross River? For example, Zamfara. I mean, in Zamfara, it's a boiling kettle as we see the deputy governor and the governor go head to head. What is the PDP doing? I mean, we see the opposition going about trying to do some form of reconciliation across their different states. What is the PDP doing? Because you also need the numbers to be able to rescue Nigeria in your words. But is there any plan, any strategy in recapturing those states? And how do you do it with all of these other states that are in limbo? You can see the reason why the caution that I talked about earlier is necessary. If we do not have people who appreciate what democracy is about, like the case of Cross River, you cited, and Zamfara, where the Supreme Court was the one that handed over justifiable power to the governor who later migrated back to the APC. If you do not have people who understand, who have dexterity, who have quality, who appreciate what democracy is about, you will be missing the link because you will be handing over power to people or supporting people who do not necessarily understand what the mandate of people is to them. You give a person the opportunity to contest on the platform and it becomes a governor. The next thing you hear is a person taking your victory. The victory was not his in the first place. This person takes the victory and migrate to another party. It's only in this climate where you have this sort of nonsense. But what the PDP is doing in the meantime is to ensure that we consult widely. The deputy governor is in charge of PDP in the state. We are aware of the impeachment that has been initiated against him. But the majority of Nigerians who are the electorate from Zanfarah state, the citizens of Zanfarah state, are behind the deputy governor and we're trying to put the house in order. You needed to hear what Senator Marafa and the former governor of the state who is in APC and the contesting for national chairman of that party is talking now about the PDP. They're all coming back to the PDP and we're talking with them. We will strengthen the party in Zanfarah so that we will go to the poll in 2023 stronger than we have always been. Rest assured PDP will have no reason to fear. What is the guarantee that that will play out the way you want to? I know that you're not here to tell me what if. You're going to sound very positive because you want it to turn out well. But then there is a House of Assembly that is majorly APC and the impeachment process has started. Who's to say that there is anything that would swing that vote in favor of deputy governor Gossel? You see it doesn't matter even if it goes their way, which is what we foresee. It doesn't matter what about the electorate. This is a hurricane that has come to rob the PDP. These people don't even win election anywhere. What they just do is to coerce the people. They intimidate people from the opposing party whether in government or not by getting them or layering them. What they go is they go poaching, you know the members of the PDP back into their fold because they have not been able to perform. So they would intimidate using the instrument of coercion and state might to intimidate members into their party. And this has been what we have seen since 2015. Tell me one governor that is outstanding today in the entire APC. Don't talk about the president who has visited Nigeria with despair and despondency. Before Buhari became president, Nigeria thought he was a messiah. Today Nigeria has been taken back to the doldrums. We don't even want to talk about the hopelessness that has pervaded the land. Look at the economy, the educational sector, public utility, morality, security and international relation of Nigeria are all in a malady. And these are multi-dimensional problems that require multi-dimensional solution. But there are some Nigerians who would also say the same about the PDP administration that has run this country for at least 16 years. They could say the same thing. And that's the reason why they voted the APC government into power. And I'm not here to speak for the APC, but I'm just saying there are those who would say, well, the PDP didn't do any better. Hence the reason why the APC is here, doing whatever you're saying they're doing. As a Nigerian that you are, you don't have to speak for the APC. Today I understand we go to the same market with you. We travel around the same space in Nigeria with you. If the space is as secured as it was in 2015, I leave you with that judgment. If the market that we go to buy goods today, if the price and the exchange rate of Nigeria and even the social peace that Nigeria enjoys as a territory is the same with what you obtained in 2015, it's up to you to judge. There's no Nigerian out there. Whatever they say, politics aside, these people have succeeded in taking Nigeria 200 years backward. We have seen how the entire political farmament has become something different from what we had. The freedom of the price, the social peace that Nigeria enjoyed, where all of this, now whatever APC says in the build up to 2023, it's up to Nigerians. If PDP was voted out because there were forms of misgovernance in the 16 years, now in 80 years, the atrocities that have been visited on Nigerians surpasses the 16 years of the PDP. In fact, there's no business for comparison or judgment. So what does anyone telling us? We are watching and Nigerians everywhere. I just came back from Kepi State, my home state, where local government elections held. In virtually all the 21 local governments and about 225 words, not 10,000 votes was generated by the APC in a state of over 6 million people. But the PDP won throughout. But what happened? They announced themselves. In fact, they've not even gone to most of the polling units to compute the votes or to announce. The electoral officers found their way out because the state electoral commission is controlled by the state. So what is APC? They've lost hope. They've brought Nigeria into a sorry state in despair, in despondency, in hopelessness. Nigerians have lost complete hope in APC. There's nothing good to say about the APC. I am even ashamed for President Buhari, in particular, at his age and at his level of accomplishment in Nigeria, he will promise what he cannot. Look at what they do with their government in their campaign to 2015 election. Security, anti-corruption, and... I'm sorry, we have to go. Time is not on our side. But I want to say thank you. Ibrahim Abdelahi is the Deputy National Publicity Secretary of the People's Democratic Party. And I appreciate you for being part of the conversation. Well, thank you so much. Well, thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a short break now. And when we return, we discuss the troubles in Zamfara state. Of course, the Deputy Governor has been served an impeachment letter by the House of Assembly. Stay tuned. We'll talk about it after this break.