 Hello everyone. Welcome to E4M, business leaders roundtable, powered by Google, unlocking digital for growth with me, Ahmad Aftab Naqwi. Hope all of you had a lovely Diwali. Well, it is undeniable the role that digital is playing in all our lives, especially in the past 12 months. Well, in the last week itself, I think we all will agree that digital has possibly made Diwali brighter for so many of us, whether it is to connect with our loved ones virtually and celebrate or to buy clothes and gifts from our favorite e-commerce store, or perhaps to learn a Mithai recipe from YouTube. And for so many brands, both established and emerging, who have used the power of digital to accelerate their businesses. Today, we are lucky to have some of these brands with us. An absolutely power packed panel with rich experiences and great expertise to have this discussion on what it takes to unlock the power of digital for growth. And on that note, let me give a warm welcome to our panelists. Firstly, we would love to welcome Anita Nair, COO Media and Communications of Patanjali, Ayurveda Limited. Thank you, Amit. Welcome, Anita. Next up, Arun Kumar S, Vice President Navratan Jwellers. Welcome, Arun. Thank you. We have Mr. Nirupam Sahai, EDN CEO, Lighting and Consumer Durables of Surya Roshni. Welcome, Mr. Nirupam. Thank you. We have Mr. Nipun Mittal, CMDN Founder of Oliphia Bioforma Limited. Thank you, Amit. We have Tanveer Oberoi, Director Agency Partnerships and Sales of Google Customer Solutions India. Welcome, Tanveer. Thanks, Amit. It's fantastic to be here again. Lovely to have you. And finally, we have Ruchita Taneja Agarwal, Head New Business Sales India at Google. Welcome, Ruchita. Hi. Thank you, Amit. Hello to everyone else. Let us straight deep dive into this very important conversation on what impact digital is playing in businesses today and how are businesses really being future ready? Let me get Anita's perspective for this. So, Anita, can you share what does it mean for you when we say using digital to be future ready for a business? I think there is no question on the fact that it's not only us, but I think all the brands present on this panel as well as every other brand and thanks to COVID for one thing, one can thank COVID, not for everything else. But it is that digital is just completely shot up the ladder of consideration as far as brands and connecting with consumers is concerned. And I think if any brand is running away from the fact that we should not look at digital now or we should wait for some time, I think we're just kind of fooling ourselves because digital is the way to go. And whether it is to do with geo coming into the frame and hence the rates of data, et cetera, coming down, whether it is the penetration of cell phones, whether it is smart or future phones, and we know how to reach customers through future phones as well, whatever it is, whether it is connectivity, the last mile connectivity, I think the reach of digital is becoming unquestionable. And I can see smiles on Ruchita and Tanveer's faces because these guys are leading the pack there. So, it is very important for organizations to be future ready. And I mean, I can speak for Asit Patanjali and I see lots of brand working in that direction where, and I was very surprised because I've been four months with Patanjali and I realized that there are an IT solutions company called Bharva Solutions with employing 200 people. I mean, absolutely amazing. Nobody would even think that an Ayurvedic Indian, Bharatiya company will be also on the forefront of finding digital solutions for clients. So, there are fantastic distribution management software which takes care of end to end supply chain, which is very important to run large businesses, specifically FMCGs and many others as well. So, with that note, I'm saying that I don't see any, there's no question on whether organizations should be future ready with digital or not. I think it's a must today. It's becoming a mandate now. I mean, very well put, I think one thing that you mentioned is really stuck with me where you said it's not the future, but it is now. So, for brands to be now ready. And let me get Arun's perspective in this. Arun, for your brand, what are you doing now using the power of digital? Is digital helping your brand? Yes, of course, it is helping a lot. As I earlier, I told, see, okay, as a jewelry brand, our presence is only in Bangalore, but our brand is known across the globe. It is all because of the digital. And we are pushing more towards digital so that we can reach more and more audience and demand. See, now, yeah. Mr. Arun, yeah. So, I think nicely put there. Yeah, I have some technical issues, please don't mind. In between, I may, you know, my voice may get cut. No worries, please continue. Yeah. So, it is, we are planning even for the future. So, how best we can use the digital technology and what are the best options to reach the audience and need to understand and how do you use artificial intelligence or even business intelligence to reach the, to understand the customers, what they need and what, how to fulfill that need. So, that we are going to work on. Mr. Arun, I would love to deep dive further and understand which avenues of digital you have been using to drive your sales, but I'll come to that in a moment. Let me get Mr. Sai's perspective on this. Mr. Sai has, digital also made the Diwali a bit brighter for Surya Roshni. Absolutely. In fact, ours and industry which has gone digital because lighting has pretty much moved from conventional to LED and LED is actually a digital solution. And you can dim it, you can change colors, stuff that you couldn't do with conventional lighting. So, in that sense, you already made the transition in terms of product. Over 90% of what sells now is LED and quit. And we're now moving more and more into smart products. So, whether it's controlled by an app or a mobile or a remote, some form of controlling the lights as well as the appliances. So, whether it's fans or geysers, etc. A lot of the products that we are now selling are getting smarter and smarter. So, that's the product portfolio that we have, which is going digital. But besides that, starting to leverage digital, social media, paid advertising, all of that is relatively new for us. We started that over the last year, I would say in a really serious way. But seems to be paying us really good dividends already in terms of brand awareness, in terms of actual incremental sales. I think the key parameters that you'd look at in any form of advertising. And we can see the impact that's starting to happen. So, we believe that that's really the share of digital in our advertising pie is just going to keep going up here on here. Like Anita said, I mean, it's not a question of when, it's a question of how fast can you do it? Well put, Mr. Sai, I would love to also understand what percentage of your pie is to do with digital, paid advertising specifically. But before we come to that, let me get Mr. Nipun's perspective also. Mr. Nipun, what is the importance of digital in your experience for your brand? And a lot of things are mentioned these days about India, right? And you know, if we have to reach customers in every corner of the world, then how has digital versus paid outdoor advertising come into your experience? If we talk about 8 years or 10 years before, that time digital marketing was a new concept. People used to think, what is this? What bubble has come into the world, which we call digital marketing. At that time, Google had outputted a social media platform. After that, Facebook came, WhatsApp came, and now Facebook has also come to Instagram. Twitter has become very popular in India. It was worldwide, now there is popularity in India as well. Twitter is growing. There is no reason. Now, Anita also said that she has taken out the slogan in the world of living. So, internet has come in everyone's approach. So, the biggest player role in that is digital media. Google has done that. Google has taught people what digital media is and what the internet is. In that, if we talk about it now, since the last two years, we have started a little work on digital marketing. So, the expense that I had on print media, outdoor holdings, and on TVC, compared to that, it remains 5%-10%, but our target audience can reach and target it. Now, when you do advertisements in print media, our target audience reaches very rarely. It reaches more than unwanted customers. So, this is a very positive sign of digital media that we can target our target audience right now. Yes. Great. You have summarized it very well. So, Mr. Saheb, you mentioned about the importance of increasing digital spends in your overall marketing budget. I would love to get Tanveer's perspective. Tanveer, this is a trend that we are seeing across the industry, where paid advertising is becoming an important component of a brand's overall marketing mix. Why is this really happening? Ahmed, you and I have had this conversation, I think, in multiple forums in the past as well, that having a high level of education and conviction about a medium is one side of the story. Second is deployment of that medium is the other side of the story. And the most important piece is how do you go ahead and leverage the medium becomes extremely critical as well. And I think that's where paid marketing really comes into play, of any media, for that matter, digital included. I think the data points that we need to kind of keep in mind is how effectively is paid marketing used? Like Nipun mentioned, if it is for the Bharat audience, how can he go ahead and get a sharper audience cut in order to ensure that he's reaching out to the relevant customers. So, is paid marketing being used in order for him to go ahead and achieve those goals? Anita's product is a lot wider. It goes across faders. It goes across geographies as well. How effectively is her brand going ahead and using paid marketing as well? So, you asked them the question in terms of what's the percentage, for example. It depends a lot on what their business objectives, their marketing objectives are in order to really kind of put a quantifiable number in terms of what the paid marketing number should eventually be like for a brand. Where are they in their digital journey as well becomes a very critical portion. So, if you really need to fuel your product and make sure all consumers which are relevant to you are able to kind of understand more about your product, you've got to put rupee behind your product as well and make sure it reaches the right consumer and that's where really paid marketing comes into play. There'll always be an organic push, but there needs to be a paid push as well to really make it effective. And tell me, this is also important for brands which are not selling online. Okay, for them also would you recommend paid advertising as an important tool? Well, it depends on where their audience is actually lying. So, for example, let me give you a data point. Let's say, for example, if Bharat as you pointed out is a big area of focus. Now, Bharat speaks vernacular languages. It doesn't speak English languages. And by 2021 end, 73% of the internet consumption is going to happen in the back of vernacular language. So, does paid marketing hence come into play to show content in vernacular languages? Absolutely. So, you've got to figure what is the intent behind paid marketing. If a person's not selling online, then too it's relevant. If a person's selling offline, tomorrow they will migrate online eventually. You can't run away from this. This is the medium of the future. So, the earlier you start investing behind it and start building your brand on paid marketing, the moment you do launch online, you'll find a larger pull and an acceptance towards that brand as well. Fair enough. The earlier you start the better. You know, Ruchita Tanveer is making this interesting point about including paid advertising into the overall marketing mix. Can you add more color to this by giving some examples as to how Google Ads solutions are helping brands to accelerate the growth? I'll do that. Before I do that, I'd actually like to maybe share some industries. If you were to really look at the last 12 months, 12 to 18 months, digital as a share of overall addicts in India is already at about 30%. Now, based on industry reports that we study or we see from other markets that are, let's say, a little ahead of India, their digital constitutes 50% of the overall addicts. And we see that India will probably, not probably actually, we feel very confident and definitively that India will move in that same direction. And we're seeing that journey happen even at a brand level. Now, I can pick up examples of, let's say, cabin care or let's say, another brand called Zalim Roshan. These are all large traditional advertisers who had a higher propensity to trust traditional media. These traditional medium channels have worked for their brands consistently over the last decades. But now, with the coming in of COVID, they've actually tested their marketing objectives on digital and they've seen those results pan out. So for example, cabin care is a great example where it was originally a predominantly South India focused brand and they wanted to expand into Northern India and East India. And they've leveraged digital very effectively. They've done some brand launches there as well. Now, if I were to move to another segment, if you were to, let's say, look at CPG as another example, we've had Parli Agro launch a new brand called Beefis right in the midst of the first wave of COVID. Now, this was a time when frankly the existing media channels were not available because out of home was not accessible or it wouldn't have got the audience's attention or print circulations were down. So that's really where brands started to come on digital and experiment and when they were surprised or pleasantly surprised with the results that digital delivered to them is when they kind of decided that this is a medium to definitely integrate in their overall medium mix. And what we typically recommend in the media and I talk about this often that we always work with our brands and advertisers to kind of look at what is the best media mix for the objectives that a company or a CXO is trying to meet. And that's really where we've seen a lot of that even frankly from a jewelry brand perspective. We've had to move and thus kind of adopt digital and while their sales are predominantly offline, but to your question earlier, can digital work for sales which are offline? Absolutely. We've seen that work as well. Of course, you may start off your campaigns with the upper funnel brand awareness, awareness and consideration type of campaigns. And when you're ready to go online, you can take it all the way down to the full funnel and convert it into action as well. So digital can work with you on those solutions, but it absolutely is a journey that a company or a brand must absolutely start. Ruchita, that's very interesting to know. I think what would be also very interesting to know is that for many of us, the annual planning for the financial year will become, we'll start in the next quarter. And I would love to understand when it comes to paid digital advertising, what is that as a component of overall marketing spends for brands? Because that's a question which is always in the head of owners and marketing heads of brands as to how should I allocate and where does the industry go? So Mr. Sai, if you could shed some light and give us some direction as to how paid digital advertising has been growing at Surya Roshni and how do you forecast it to be a percentage of your overall spends? So as of today, it's in the mid single digits as a share of total spends, but I see that increasing dramatically. So within the next couple of years, I expect it to hit about 25-30%. So it's going to be a dramatic increase year on year going forward because we've seen the effectiveness of it. And I think the point that Nipun made earlier that you could really target in a far better way than mass media. So I think given all of that, we believe that that spend is going to go up dramatically in the next couple of years. I would estimate about 25-30% in the next couple of years. Let me also get Anitha for your brand as well as your rich experience across brands in the industry. What is that percentage of paid digital advertising that is looking like a sweet spot for most brands? I mean actually what Tanveer mentioned a few minutes before was it completely depends on what product category you are advertising for. What is your brand category? It also depends on what are your audiences and it also depends on where those audiences are. So depending on that, I think the percentage of digital spends for brands will vary. I mean if I was to take a overall view, I think it might vary from 5% up to about 25-30%. If you're talking about youth-oriented products today, I think it just might cross 30% as well because where is the youth? Youth is only on digital platforms. Today, I mean I have a 23-year-old daughter and when I talk to her on newspapers she says, what newspaper? It is all the news that comes to her is in one of her news apps or they find ways. I mean through Instagram posts or through whatever, I think and news travels to them faster by the way. So it's also very interesting when I tell her, oh I read this and she said, oh you're still, what should I say, you're old-fashioned or whatever that you still hold an HD or a TOI in your hand but that's habit. So with a cup of tea that habit hasn't died so much but she's faster in terms of getting news on her device. So all I'm saying is that I think it varies from product to product but as I mentioned earlier also no running away from digital anywhere from 5% to 30%. I was just reading an article the other day for example FMCG brands and again so much of e-commerce that is happening and so much of online shopping that happened over the previous one and a half years has actually made especially your FMCG sector and your daily needs sector advertise even more on digital because the sale is happening on the e-commerce platforms. Yeah and that is where a huge chunk of their sales is coming. So lots of FMCG brands have suddenly increased their digital spends. Earlier I think 5-7 years back when we used to talk to Reket and Reket used to say to the client I handled for about 11 years, they used to say you know 2% we will see you know that kind of a thing but no longer I mean today when you see the overall spends of FMCGs and the percentage that is going to digital and the increase is faster. So just no pun intended but with faster than the speed of light that's how digital is really you know spreading its wings. So it varies 5-30% and into 3 years time maybe 50%. Point well made Anita but I've also been seeing a growing number of brands which are emerging and they're saying you know what we're going to go digital first especially D2C brands and building their entire experience around paid advertising to grow it. You know I would love Rujitha's perspective on this. Rujitha in your experience because you have a bird's eye view across so many brands are there brands being built really which are digital first and digital only? Yes in fact there are two trends that are shaping up you know and it's quite interesting to see this trend right. So about 18 to 24 months ago we saw a lot of D2C brands you know get a lot of attention and you know assume a lot of significance you know so you had brands like Mama Earth, wow you know those you know D2C brands which all of a sudden you know kind of offered very intense competition to established FMCG conglomerates so that was one trend that we saw and they went completely digital. They chose to prioritize and only invest their money in digital. What we're seeing play out now which is the other interesting trend is that we're actually seeing a lot of FMCG conglomerates now launch digital first brands right. So we're talking to for example you know Rujitha was there in the last panel that you know Emma UI and that we were on right. He was speaking about you know of course Marcus which is his main brand but you know they're also thinking of you know only a digital brand now right. Then you also have L'Oreal for example you know work with us on their make-up remover brand you know the you know the water you know Garnier and Miserelle water that they had right. So those are the two you know interesting trends that we're seeing that we are also continuing to see newer brands coming up which are going digital first only and digital only actually not just digital first and they're able to very effectively you know pick the markets that they want to be in very effectively pick the audiences that they want to go after and you know effectively engage in a two-way communication with their consumers and I think that is the other you know in addition to targeting I think the strength of digital is to enable a two-way communication in almost real time right like in the previous world when you were dependent on an offline supply chain right. The time it would take for any consumer feedback or insight to come to you was you know much longer and you had to kind of really wait for any chance to emerge in your customer service department that you know are there more complaints that are coming in are there you know is there more demand that's coming in in the retail channel. Now all of that is actually much easier to do in the online you know journey because also the consumer purchase journey is no longer linear right. It's not that the customer begins with the you know search and then takes it all the way to action right. They will start off with you know doing their research they will perhaps go down the funnel then they will look at reviews they will look at what the other consumers are saying they will hear you know YouTube videos on how to use it and then perhaps come back into the research phase if they have to or culminate all the way into action and then even post purchase there is feedback that is now you know brands are picking and that's what I mean that you know that's the other thing that we are seeing so that's that's one thing that we are seeing digital only brands leverage very effectively and the other trend that is only emerging now recently to be honest is these large FMCG brands launching digital first brands where they are saying that listen we will continue to do what we are doing with our traditional portfolio of brands but we will also launch you know which are digital first and youth oriented brands perhaps you know borrowing what Anita was saying earlier right. So those are the you know two things that we are seeing. Can I add something to what Rujita said it's a very interesting point you know all brands and clients are very interested in seeing where the money is going right ROI is extremely important for them and to me just to shorten the dark but maybe another reason of why there are digital first or digital only brands this firstly you know the advertising one of the advertising gurus said that 50% of your advertising goes waste one doesn't know which 50% of it yeah so here you know that you are targeting your audiences right you know that you do not waste your money you know exactly which market how many people you will be able to target so that also brings the digital first or digital only brands brands pens under a bit of a control you know so it almost seems like a test market you know we used to do Chennai test market you know Bangalore test market and say you know little money let's figure out how the brand is and you're literally you know digital is replacing that whole thing to say okay fine you know here are my audiences and I exactly know where that 50% of or the 100% of my money is going so just wanted to add that to what Rujita said yeah very important point and I think a lot of brands especially who are adopting digital for the first time possibly look at ROI as one of the important measures I would love Mr Arun's perspective on this Mr Arun you mentioned that your brand is being using digital what are the formats and how are you getting ROI from it are you getting driving sales from your digital efforts as well yes of course we are getting sales good amount of sales and more than sales see digital means it is not only sales say creating an awareness brand awareness that is more important than sales yeah okay being Bangalore based company as I told you we are globally known company okay when it comes to jewelry temple collection south especially south Indian jewelry so it's all because of the digital and see for example if you take any traditional media we cannot reach even out of Bangalore or out of Karnataka see digital okay whenever there is a search of jewelry or temple collection or anti-collection so first thing pops up that is Navratan okay so thanks to Google so especially yeah so as I mentioned Mr Mrs Anita and Rishita see it's a youth brand youth see now they are getting into a lot of lightweight jewelry see now we have launched as I told yesterday so ups at a brand it's a lightweight jewelry we are we are planning to cater the corporate and as well as the youth so so we are getting good amount of inquiries lovely no that's great to know Mr you know and importantly you mentioned that not just sales directly but also hitting brand awareness and reach awareness that is more important actually see creating brand value is more than the sales yeah so how many people know your brand so that is more important than the sales I believe that lovely Mr Arun your agency's dream right some you know is looking at the larger picture as well it's always great to know so thank you for putting that out I will put Nippun's perspective on this as well right as a business owner you know when you look at paid advertising on digital how do you measure your success parameters consumer if your product problem solving consumer problem solving product definitely we are going to see which target audience we are going to place on it so the consumer is very the mood swing is very fast consumer online he is watching If it is in offline market, then it takes immediate action and it purchases. If it is in online market, then it will purchase immediately. Returns are 4 to 0. Returns on online are 10%, 15%, 20% ratio. If you sell 100 units, then it comes back to 15 units. So, I mean digital marketing is a good online selling. You have questioned digital first or digital only. I don't believe in digital first or digital only. Even today, life boy's soap sells more offline. Life boy's body wash sells more online. It depends on the consumer. Fair and lovely, it sells more offline. L'Oreal's shampoo or any beauty or night cream or BB cream sells more online. It depends on the target audience. Fair and lovely, if you want to sell online, then it may not survive. It sells more than 10 rupees per unit. It has to be more than 10 rupees. Other than that, the consumer depends a lot. The consumer doesn't have the patience to wait for 5 days or 7 days for his deliveries. He needs an immediate product. So, what is growing in the online market right now? It is a future online market. But it depends on what kind of product you have. Everything matters. Yeah, I just interrupt here. Okay. Yeah, see now, as I told you, it's awareness. And the second thing, even the customers will get reviews. It is the companies are getting reviews from the customers. So how is, you know, about the company, about our product and about our service. So the overall picture of the company, how we are presenting and how we are, you know, they're placed in the market. So this, you know, it's all depending on the rating and rating now online reviews. So customers, consumers, before they're getting into any company, they will look how many people are, you know, aware about this brand and how many people are rated this brand. What is the rating of this brand? So the complete picture, everything will be there on their table. And it will help them to decide whether I should go with this brand or not. Whether I need to buy this product or not. So this will clear, it will give the clear picture to the customers. Yeah, so whether I'm getting a right kind of information about this company or not. Very rightly put, Mr. Aaron, because, you know, as today for a lot of customers, the journey begins possibly at Google. And it's a very informed decision. So very rightly put that the reviews and the reputation matters so much in the buying behavior. So thank you for putting that out. Exactly, yeah. You know, I would love to take Mr. Nipun's conversation also ahead slightly. Where Mr. Nipun mentioned that not always would possibly digital be leveraged to build a large brand and he gave some examples. I would love Tanvi to get into this conversation and share some of his perspective. Tanvi, would you agree with Mr. Nipun? Well, you know, when we speak about digital and digital marketing, honestly, it's a very broad topic. If across the seven, eight of us on the screen, it means different things to a lot of us. If as a brand head, as a CMO, as a CEO of a company, I would basically leverage digital on three fronts. Okay, number one, I'm alluding to what Nipun went down, which is basically reaching out to the audiences that really matter. So the first bucket would be finding the right audiences relevant to your own customer, your own product. So for example, it could be a product, as he mentioned, a 10 rupee product, it could be a 200 rupee product, it could be a 5000 rupee product. So let's find the right audience. So it could be even more expensive as in Arun's case, right, in terms of the kind of product. The second piece that you need to be able to leverage when you find the right audience is the right content. What content does that audience really go ahead and consume on digital? Let me give you an example. In the North Indian belt, Bhojpuri content is very, very popular, right? Now ask yourself the question that how many of you actually go ahead and leverage that content or do you still prefer going to English news? Yes, English news is relevant. But if you're targeting the North Indian belt and let's say UP, Bihar, that belt, then Bhojpuri content is extremely well consumed and there's ample content available in it. So are you leveraging the right content? Now this could again be by state, it could be by region, it could be by age group like Anita mentioned, 23 year old daughter and so on and so forth, right? And finally, are you leveraging the right digital insights? Brands on digital are made on the back of insights. I'll give you a classic case of a brand called ASICS, the sports brand, sportswear brand. During this COVID-19 phase, ASICS and there's a case study on this which I'd be happy to share with you later. They actually leverage their own insights or their own data with respect to their customers, their first party data. Leveraged it alongside Google Analytics to find that most relevant audiences for them was to help transactions happen online because people were exercising at home, there were different habits coming on and so on and so forth. So there are ample number of ways of leveraging digital. I don't think there's a one fit all answer that really kind of sits across all these multitude of brands that we have on the screen right now. So I would urge them to really look beyond the obvious of just one bucket, which is only audiences, but also see as to how can you leverage content right with those audiences and insights and data right with those audiences as well. Nicely put that runway. Mr. Sai, in your experience, have you also been using insights and data to really accelerate your business and making sense of that? Absolutely. It goes back to a point that Richard had made earlier. So there is a lot of data out there lying with companies now which have gone digital. I think the issue is how well a company is using that data. It's easy to generate a lot of data, but then it's about how effectively you start using it. So in our case, even in paid advertising, we are experimenting still with whether it's search or display or video or social, the different kinds of paid advertising out there. So we're really experimenting with all that to see which one works best. And we're using a very classical framework to try and track how we are doing. It's called the race framework. Probably everyone heard about it. It's reach, act, convert, and engage. So at each step, are you able to kind of figure out how many people you're reaching? How many people are then getting impacted or are acting? How many are you actually converting? And then finally, the last step, which is how many are then engaging with you. So that's what you're trying to do. So at every step, try and measure how we are doing so that we are more effective going forward. Lovely. I think that's very interesting. Mr. Mittal, in your opinion, when it comes to measuring success, especially from digital and paid advertising, what is that metric that you use? What does ROI mean to you at that? The best ROI, for any business, the best ROI is 5 is to 1. But it depends on every kind of business, like jewelry, so 1 is to 1, 2 is to 1 is also possible. High volume is cosmetic, so 4 is to 1 is also possible. It depends on your product, your market, your consumer. It depends on that. Now, you can't fix the ROI. It depends on the market's needs, the situation. And sometimes we have to enhance the ROI, but it depends on the market's needs. And ROI is not only in ratio, it also matters how much value you're investing in. How much money you're investing, how many lakhs, how many crores you're investing in, and then how much consistency you have. Now, if we're talking about ROI, there are a lot of digital failures because they do digital marketing on the horizon of 3 months and 6 months. On the horizon of 6 months, whatever they process, it's obviously not about consistency, it's about consistency for the consumer. There's a time frame and a discipline and a patience that you need to invest 3 years, 5 years, 6 years. In any business, let it be invested. A standard formula of 36 months is taught in an offline and online market. In any business, you need to have 36 months for patience. In which you will invest your mind, your energy, your money. So digital marketing also matters that digital marketing has different forms, whether it's offline, online, outdoor, indoor, in magazines. Marketing is a marketing, a simple marketing. Its forms and timing are changing. But you need to have patience. You need to invest in the long term, whether it's a financial investment or a moral investment or a personal investment. No, it was very beautiful, thinking long term. Tanveer, I would love to get you into this conversation because there might be so many brands who might be making this mistake of measuring success on digital on a shorter timeline, maybe campaign to campaign business. What is your perspective? How should brands look at digital when it comes to measuring success? I think Nipun made a very, very valid point. I'll divide this into two parts. Let's say for a brand that is just about launching, which is new in the market, I think Nipun's point is absolutely valid. Have a little bit of patience. Your metrics for success could be sales or an uplift in sales that you see month on month or week on week or annually. That could be a success metrics. Alternatively, over a period of time, it could also be ROAS, which is a return on ad spends. But then ROAS again can be calculated in two manners. One is return on ad spends on sales and one is return on ad spends on brand. You've got to look at both aspects of it. Most marketers, whether it be new brands or it be older brands, tend to pivot to ROAS on sales and they tend to forget the ROAS on brand. For a new brand, ROAS on brand is very, very critical because you are building the credibility of your brand, your audiences. And that's where the three year investment that Nipun was alluding to becomes very, very critical. It could be one year for a few, two years for another, three years for three fathers and so on. When it comes to sales as well, I think it's obviously a metrics that we do measure. Eventually, it's going to translate into ROI. But I would just urge brands to look at it in terms of clear identification at how much of your budget, let's say if it's 100 rupees, how much of it will you measure versus a sales ROI and how much of it will you measure versus a brand ROI? And don't try and mix the two because then you're going to try and cannibalize on one or the other. And it doesn't really then eventually work out in the long-term well enough. So I think that's what most brands are kind of gradually moving towards now as well. But it depends again on what life cycle or journey are they in with respect to those, with respect to their own brands. One of the challenges is that measuring the ROI on sales is simpler than measuring the ROI on brand. It's not as cut and dry. I think that's always a challenge. I agree. I agree. Fortunately, I think we've also all been through the journey where we've tried to answer this question and develop tools which help you answer that in a far more effective manner than what you could have probably five years back. So let me give you an example. If you go ahead and run, let's say a YouTube campaign, you have the option to go ahead and institute a free brand list study into your YouTube campaigns. What does it do for you? It goes ahead and translates into giving results on whether your brand was high on awareness as in your campaign did well on awareness. Does your brand go high on consideration and so on and so forth. So now there are ample number of real time, you know, like studies that have been instituted while your campaigns are running or while your advertising run is going through. So as for you to be able to measure it. That's on the online space. And then obviously you can do third party researchers, etc., etc. as well, which are there. But fortunately now it's available for you a lot more easily than actually going ahead and investing towards a third party as well. Yeah, I think. Can I comment? Yeah, I was just about to get you into this, right? What are the other ways in which, you know, brands can really measure ROI. And in your experience, does Google provide more solutions and assistance to help them really get this out of the digital space? Yes. So the short answer to your, you know, the second question or second part of your question is yes, Google actually offers multiple ways to measure success, right? You could have, you know, views as one measurement you could have, you know, different formats of ads, right? We have non-skippable, we have skippable. So completed views, impressions, you know, website visits, Ruas, as the we spoke about, and there are multiple, you know, again, different products can offer different, you know, ways of measurement and branded surveys and, you know, ad sales, you know, uplift, etc. Also, so depending on again what one is solving for, you know, rather than trying to look at that entire bouquet of measurement solutions that may be available, I think one needs to kind of take a little bit of hand-holding support in terms of even choosing what measurement one needs to be tracking one against and, you know, measuring success. And, you know, there are two other points that I wanted to actually come in and make, you know, building further from what Nippon was saying. One is the commitment of time, right? Sometimes, you know, what we experience with, you know, when digital is a new journey for advertisers is also they want to look at the impact on brand. And when they say brand, it is awareness consideration, but they all this at the same time, they also want to measure the impact on sales. So what tends to happen is under investing on one or the other. You know, so when you when Nippon spoke about commitment of time, I would actually also kind of say that it's it's important to take some support and help on identifying what you want to prioritize now, rather than saying that listen, I have $100. I want to measure impact on all my, you know, metrics and let's cut up this 100 rupees across. And, you know, that sometimes you've seen doesn't, you know, necessarily yield very efficient results. On the other hand, the flip side is that sometimes we've, you know, had a few situations where let's say advertisers have said that listen, I only want to do awareness or I only want to do bottom funnel, right? What we've seen consistently while working with many brands across industries is that planning a digital campaign across the full funnel, allocating the new commitment of money and new commitment of time can, you know, really accelerate or accentuate the results eventually. And what I mean by that is we've seen that sometimes when we run campaigns only for upper funnel or only for bottom funnel, the results standalone might be strong. I'm not saying that the results are not strong, but they could actually be amplified before if one is planning a campaign across the full funnel. But of course one needs to like I said the resource allocation and resource commitment of money and time both has to be planned well. And that's really where the science behind this comes in and that's really where the, you know, the insights, the data piece that, you know, we were talking about, right? Because it's a machine learning model, because there is a lot of experience that's built into the model of working in the same category with multiple campaigns with multiple advertisers. There is a lot of insight that's available. One has to just leverage that while planning a campaign and then kind of staying committed to that journey. Which is the answer seems so obvious when an expert from Google is coming and sharing that. But if an emerging brand wants to use all these insights that you're talking about, right, and all this rich data that is there. Does Google provide any hand holding or any support for brands to, you know, start their digital journey, or maybe if they already have campaigns running to really help them optimize that and get the right ROI from it. Right. So absolutely, in fact, you know, we have to acknowledge both, you know, on behalf of us, we have to acknowledge that sometimes, you know, it may not be very self obvious and, you know, one may need that additional support and it's actually for that that we offer two prong support. So one is the support that lets me and my team offer to brands and advertisers to actually design this plan for you and understand what your objectives are leverage the insights and work on, you know, designing what the plan could look like and also supporting in executing that campaign and making sure that the results are what you know we committed to before and optimizing for it as we go along the journey. The second level of support that we offer is actually the support that Tanveer and his team offers, you know, where we also work with the agencies, you know, so, even beyond the big six agencies we offer support to many other, you know, independent agencies, and we can, you know, do a try party kind of engagement where between the advertiser, your agency and ourselves, which is both the Google teams we will collaborate and work and make sure that you're set up for success from the first time and you know we engage and we will take this hand holding and support all the way through. I just interrupt here. Okay. So I'd like to say that, you know, very shortly we are going to launch our own, you know, digital campaign agency. So definitely I would like to say I see Richard has helped in this. We, we are planning to help, you know, small brands to come up and to reach see the products are fantastic but only thing they don't know how to take it to the consumers. So we are planning to help them. And even some women entrepreneurs we are planning to support them to grow in their life. So definitely, we need to work together. So it's a wonderful opportunity to be in this round table business leadership. So we had a wonderful time actually. Yeah, thank you, Mr. I'll definitely touch base with you in and, you know, offline and take this forward. Yeah. And more, more, more important is the content. So what content and how we are presenting that content. It is not the language. So it is not only the language it is the content is very much important. Let's say for example recently, if you take the traditional marketing, marketing, if you, you know, whether it is a paper or the TV channel, I don't watch a Gujarati channel or Punjabi channel. But if it isn't digital, I watch everything if it is relevant. And for example, recently the the singer from Sri Lanka, my mother, so we don't understand the language. But so it helped her to reach the global audience, it is all because of the technology and the digital platform. Nice Mr. Aaron, you know, and what is very hard thing is that this round table is even delivering results while it's live right now. You know, and for everyone watching right I think this is a great opportunity if you have any questions, if you'd like to connect with the Google team, please comment in and stay connected you know as they say you miss 100% of the shots, you don't take. And on that note, you know, we're coming to the close of this round table, but I cannot let the panelists go without they telling us their secret mantra from success right there so many learnings and experiences that they have, and they must share that one line success mantra. Possibly we can start with Mr. Nippon. Yeah, one line success mantra is prachar hai to vya par hai. Prachar hai to vya par hai. Mr. Sai, what would yours be? I think you need to get the right talent in. So for example, the digital marketing we realized we didn't have the talent so we had to go out and get it. So if you see some shortfall then get the right people in because they'll suddenly just change the atmosphere and change the culture. Great, get the right people on the bus, lovely. Mr. Arun, what would your one line success mantra? Customer first. Customer first. Ruchita, yours. The world that we live in is very dynamic. And I think it's important for all of us to continuously learn and evolve and grow. And digital is a part of that learning. Tanveer, finding what is your one line mantra? I'd quote something which says, nothing is real till it's really experienced. So I would urge everyone on this group to experience the power of digital and leverage the power of Google to help you embark on this journey and make it seamless for you. So Ruchita and I and team are happy to help in as much as possible for you to be able to do so. Thank you Tanveer and I'm sure with all the conversation that we had, the people tuning in will possibly make lesser mistakes and maximize their chances of success. You know today, you know the diverse conversations that we had certainly establishes that digital is not the future it is now and businesses and brands have to be now ready. And also making sure that how can they leverage digital should not just be through the sales lens, but also through awareness lens which we will established here. And most importantly, thinking long term. Great. Thank you everyone for this lovely conversation and have a good day. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everyone. Very nice meeting you all. Thank you.