 We are now recording. Yes. All right. Then I'd like to call this meeting of the Community Preservation Act Committee to order on January 21st, 2021 at 6.05 p.m. We are conducting the meeting by remote participation pursuant to the governor's order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law. The meeting is being recorded and will be posted to the to Amherst's YouTube website. So I'd first like to take, actually, I think I first need to find a minute taker and we may be coming back around to Sam. What a good soul. Thank you so much. Okay. I will sign up for the next meeting. I'm happy to do it next meeting and I'll plan for it. Thank you. Whenever that is, we have not scheduled it. It would be a recording of this available, correct? Correct. Could we, Sarah, do you think it might be possible as we look at Anthony's calendar for the next dates to assign the minute takers in advance so that, like, we know ahead of time and I don't schedule it on a week when I know work is nuts and all of that. Good idea. Is that possible? Good idea. Robin gets credit for that idea when she was like, I'll do next week. I was like, that's smart. I mean, my calendar is for the fall and some of you may not be here in the fall. Yeah, a lot of us might not be. Well, I think we're going to have a, I think we're going to have at least one more meeting for the fall, but we'll get to that. Sure, we can. So we have next, the meeting, the minute taker for next meeting, TBD, always recognizing that people's plans change and we might have to somebody at the last minute. Okay. So I'd like to take attendance. Everybody respond so we can be sure you can hear, we can hear each other. Okay. I'm Sarah Marshall. I'm here. Sam McLeod. Here. Anna Devlin-Gothier. Present. Sarah Eisinger. Not yet. Robin Fordham. Present. Andy McDougal is not here yet or possibly at all. Diana Stein. Here. David Williams. David Williams is in the attendees. Anthony, can you move him into the panelists? And Kathy Schoen is as well. Is she still our liaison? Yes, but she said that she would be an attendee unless she was asked to. And she goes by Shane. Shane, I'm sorry, Shane. That's all right. I keep saying it wrong. Okay. And Katie Allen. Here. All right. So we, several members absent, but we have a quorum. So I have, I have made David a panelist, but he's currently muted and camera off. So David, if you can hear us, if you could hear us. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Okay. David's here too. Great. All right. Then Sam is taking attendance. Do you have the template or are you just going to take notes? I'm going to go off the recording and I'm going to load up one of these last three sets of emails that came and I'll run from that. Okay. Super. If I try to take notes, I wanted me to read my own notes. You are one of those who just, yeah, I write down the key words. Yeah. Okay. All right. Then let's turn to minutes. I'm so happy that we have all these minutes to look at. Hopefully we can finalize at least two of them. Thank you, Anna, for getting, getting the last set in today. But we'll see if enough people are prepared to. I would not blame anyone for not getting through this. That's all right. That's okay. All right. So can we turn to the draft minutes of November 5th? Does anyone have, I guess speaking of focal lengths, going to switch to my glasses, any substantive changes or questions? Remember, you can email the small edits to Anthony. Okay. What was, excuse me, what, which one are we doing right now? November 5th. Okay. Okay. I was hoping Andy would be here so he could tell me, tell us whether he was here or whether he was absent because he can't be both. Yeah, I, I thought that was just a mistake. One of them is. So, so we'll figure that out. Does he have any comments in the minutes? I do have a question about the call to call to order. It says the meeting in this maybe standard that it's recorded by Amherst media. Is that what's happening now? Or is it being recorded recorded by zoom? That's it. That's it. That was in my template with the intention that it be deleted for a meeting that isn't because I use the template for a variety of. Oh, okay. So that should be deleted. I'll delete that. So you're going to say it recorded. That's in others. So that needs to be deleted in others. Okay. I have one that's, it's not substantive, but it's worth noting going forward. So I don't have to make it every week. I have two last names. So when you put me in, if it's either DG or Devlin got there, it's not just G. Just so folks know going forward. Thank you. Okay. Same. I wondered also about the second paragraph in the call to order. It was requested that a summary of financials be prepared. I don't know why Katie would have needed to follow up with Anthony. Is that, is that important information? Do we know what was meant intended? That doesn't ring a bell. I was asking for more information, which I ended up getting at the next meeting. So I didn't follow up with Anthony about, just as a new person. Can we delete that then? Yeah. All right. Anybody have a comment on either item two or item, I guess, three is the bulk of the miss. Yeah. We're going to not do anything about little one. Yeah. Just to send them. Yeah. I'm just going through right now. And I I see just typo type stuff. Right. Um, could I make a general comment though? Um, and that is, and I don't know to which minutes specifically this refers, but CPA and CPA see can't be used interchangeably. In one case, it's simply the community preservation act. And in the other case, it's our committee, the community preservation act committee. And I in some minutes, they seem not to make that distinction. I don't think that's true in this particular minutes. But I just thought I'd raise that as a general comment. Okay, we can look out for that. Yep. I would say in under number three, the very first sentence, this new potential project has nothing to do with Northampton road. So I would delete everything after of the 130 of the 132 Northampton blah, up to in partnership. And just put substitute affordable. So for the development of affordable, whoops, affordable housing, I guess. Right. Makes sense. Anybody else? I maybe I should have asked are and have enough people reviewed them that we can. Yeah. Okay, Sarah, I reviewed them. And I'm just looking, I'm on my iPad now. And the copies that I sent to you. Yeah, Anthony, don't I lighted things that I was inserting. And I can't see what I highlighted. There were a couple of places where I corrected things, wording, you know, more than just a typo or something like that, wording that had to do with things that I said. But I can't identify them because the copies that I haven't shown me were highlighted. So well, if it's your own, if you what you altered was your own words. Is that what you've said? Right. My own meanings. Your meaning I require, right. Acquire instead of require. Yeah. Right. There's a couple of longer ones. I don't think in these minutes, Anthony, but I think in the other one, one of the other ones that you have to do just to do with specific historic preservation things. So anything longer than one word would be something I'd want to bring up. But the one word thing, sir, in your 11, in your, in your notes for this meeting, they're all one word. Yeah, that's probably in the ones I took. Sorry, they were, it was like 11 pages of notes and they tried to speak to sync. So I apologize. That's okay. And I know not a problem. That's okay. Great. Sam, that's why we review. Yeah. I see in the Q&A that Sarah E is in the queue waiting to be highlighted in. Oh, thank you. Sorry to interrupt, but I think Oh, that's good. We were talking about how we get the link to this meeting. I'm not sure I came in a little bit late, but the thing that I do is I search for panelists in my email. That's the length that gets you right in. I don't know if anybody else mentioned that, but that's a really quick, quick way to find it. That's what I did tonight, because I couldn't find it. Thank you. Anthony, you have my comments, right? I don't have to say anything. Okay. I do. All right. Sarah E, I don't know. Hello. Welcome. Happy new day. Thanks. I don't know how you've been listening. So we're just going through changes to the November 5th minutes. Thank you for drafting those. I have nothing more. Does anybody else? All right. Can I have a motion to approve them? I see a move. A second? Second. Sorry. Who was that? Oh, Robbie. Kate. Sorry. Okay. Do I really have to do everything by roll call? I think so. Every vote has to be roll call. Okay. So we will now vote whether to accept the minutes of November 5th as amended or not. Sam. Hi. Anna. Hi. Diana. Hi. Katie. Hi. Seconds. Dave. Get the towel. Dave Williams. David, can you hear me? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Robin. Hi. Sarah Eisinger. Hi. And Sarah Marshall. Hi. Okay. Thank you. All right. Next. Chronologically, if we're ready, are the minutes of November 19th. So can I see a show of hands of people who already have had time to review those? Only four. So we'll table that to next time. Okay. So moving on to and I know I sent out November 12th because I couldn't remember because we didn't have the minutes of the next meeting if we finalized them, but we did. So we're all done with 1112. So now to December 3rd draft minutes taken by Katie. Thank you. Any substantive comments? These are nicely succinct. Yep. That's my go-to for minutes. So if you instruct me otherwise, if you need to. Yes. Well, this was a straightforward meeting where we'd already taken all our votes, so we didn't have all that much debate as I recall. I have no comments. Anybody else? Last chance. All right. Can I have a motion to approve the minutes of December 3rd, 2020? So moved. Was that Robin? No, that was second. Sorry. Can you wave your hand? I can't because the voices all come from the same place, right? The speaker. So thank you. And then the second. Dave, thank you. All right. So roll call vote again. Sam? Aye. Anna? What? It is here. Thank you. Diana? Hi. Katie? Aye. Dave? Aye. Robin? Aye. Sarah Eisinger? Aye. And Sarah Marshall? Aye. Thank you. All right. So keep those November 19th draft minutes on the top of your pile for next time. And I'm actually wondering, how do we ever, can a committee ever get caught up? Because even if all you do is pass minutes, you're having a meeting at which you need to take minutes. So I've always wondered that myself. Oh, we don't know. When a committee dissolves, like how the last minutes get approved. Yes. Yes, it's quite. Somebody in my worker told me that you can post draft minutes if minutes aren't approved in a certain amount of time. They just become. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. They're effective. All right. All right. So now we have public comment. If there's anybody. Meg Gage. So. Playing the good, playing the mandolin? Or ukulele? I make. Welcome. Ukulele. Want to see my face? Entirely up to you. Thank you. I wasn't going to, I'm going to comment on two things on one very briefly. I'm the chair of the participatory budgeting commission and we set a standard for ourselves of approving the minutes at the beginning of every subsequent meeting. So that it's just sort of a standard that you set because the minutes actually help you remember what you decided to do. And particularly in our case, because we're developing a strategy, the minutes help us remember what, what were we were when we last left off. So I'm not judging or anything. I'm just saying that you can say we do that at every meeting minutes first thing. Anyway, our little history trail project is still working on applying for funding for CPA. We're really appreciative of the enthusiasm of some people or many people and we've been to the conservation commission now and they were very supportive as well. And we're trying to rewrite the proposal, but we'd really be helpful to know what it was about our proposal that didn't qualify. And we've reached out to Stuart Saginar and he's suggested we reach out to circuit riders that preservation in Massachusetts hires to help groups like us, but it would be really helpful to know what exactly was it about our proposal that didn't qualify. And I have a theory that we over we like talked past. Are you raising your Robin? Yeah, I'm raising my hand for a response. Keep going. Well, but go ahead, go ahead, Meg. I can wait. No, no, no, I'm waiting for you to finish and Sarah will call on me. This is just to let her know. Thank you. Okay. I have a theory that we kind of talked past the sale. We talked all about community archeology in the community and all we have plucky people of Amherst who are so industrious. And we didn't talk enough about the rocks and the cellar holes and the foundations. And that's really what this first step of the project is about research so we know where they are and what they were and so on. That's my theory, but it would be really helpful to get some actual concrete. This is why it didn't apply. So if there's something inherently about the project that makes it unlikely to ever apply, then that would be good to know. Or is it, in other words, we don't want to work on this if it's just totally out of the ballpark altogether, but we have found places in the 2017 Amherst CPA strategy memo where it seems exactly like what we're trying to do. So it would be really helpful, whether it's Stuart Saganar or Jane Wald or maybe Anthony or I don't know, we'd just be helpful to know this is why it didn't apply and it could have applied if you did these things or it will never apply. Over. Thank you. Certainly understand that. Yes, Robin. Can I just, I'm sorry, Robin, can I just ask if everyone could mute because I'm hearing, I'm having a hard time hearing, I was having a hard time hearing Meg. I feel like there's a lot of background noise. I believe it's actually coming from Meg. Oh, okay. Sorry, I'll turn my raise to the background. I didn't know you'd hear it. Thank you. Sorry, Meg, I wanted to hear you. Do you need me to say anything over? Maybe not. No, I think I got the gist. Thank you so much. We just want to know why we didn't qualify and if there's something we could do that would help us to qualify or is it a lost cause? Because we don't need to go to all that effort. Right. Over. Okay. So I would say that the Historical Commission would love to meet with you to talk about the proposal. There's a lot of enthusiasm for it. And then there's just figuring out what and how it fits under this CPA. And I can't speak for the town because I know some of our proposals don't come to us because the town makes a decision on eligibility. That's a different question. But given that it was a historical preservation proposal and it fits in that area, I would say that last year we were so rushed and we were hoping to have more time to, this is such a great opportunity for us to work with you to develop a process of how we walk somebody through the development of a strong proposal that isn't out of the running the moment it's written. So I'm looking forward to hearing from you there. And I will say it's my recollection that, yeah, Sonya told us it was not eligible. I have to say I do not understand. She said it, well, I don't completely understand why. And I must say our existing CPA plan for the town does make it sound like it would be eligible. So I'm confused. And this is something that is on the table for tonight in our later discussion as an issue. And we really need, we really need to get it resolved. And you, you know, maybe Anthony has some insight, or perhaps you speak to Sonya. But I want to find out why we have the language we have in that plan, where it comes from, is it accurate? And, you know, what, how do we interpret it? So all I can say right now is if you, if you, this is on our agenda also. And if you want to just wait, you know, and not work, do much more work until we have this figured out. We talked to the Historical Commission. This is a, this is a problem. It's a problem. And I regret it. Somebody else had a hand up. Anna, your, it was me, but I think I am answering my own question. So I'm going to, I'll bow out for now. Okay, Sam. Just Robin might have alluded to this. You may have as well, Sarah. Meg, we, we actually never did officially rule on the proposal as a committee is my recollection. It didn't come to the point of discussion regarding the merits or how we would interpret the eligibility. It was indicated, as Sarah said, that a few different folks indicated it was not eligible, but we never actually said such. Having said that, the suggestions from Robin and from Sarah make sense, but I just wanted you to be aware there was no actual denial or decision made on our, on our part. From a committee standpoint. Yeah, thank you. Yes. And we, I'm not sure we've met, even met since. So, so that's what, that's where it is. We understand how these things work. Nobody's unhappy or angry. We just realizing that before we write another version, we ought to know what the target is. But we did write a pretty good four page memo to the conservation commission that really is about stone, cellar holes, walls, dams, nothing much about community committee and anything. We said, you know, we're not going to drill and we're not going to dig, but it was just about preserving the sites as much as they're, they exist and learning about these three. So we could turn that into a proposal. But when the woman from the circuit rider asked me, why were we denied? I actually suddenly went, this is the stupidest thing, like, I never found out. It's like, whoa. So we're ready to participate whenever you are. And we're, you know, one way or the other, we're going to do this, because people are so, you know, excited about it. Part of town. We're trying to value our history up here, North Amherst. Yes. And I think if CPA, CPA certainly would want to entertain being helpful if, if we can, if we're permitted. So, yeah. So we're also interested in having this, having this on your doubt, Robin. Oh, just really encouraging, yeah, to flow through the historical commission, because we're the first pass. That's my, the purpose of my position sitting on the committee is to take the recommendation from the historical commission to the committee. So, and we're delighted to find projects to fund. So we want to be able to work with anybody who needs guidance. Anna. Yeah. So Meg, I was looking at the CPA website, just the broader CPA website. And they do have a flowchart that I think might indicate why Sonya didn't, didn't accept this. I'm not sure if you've looked at it at all or poked around on there, but you know, they, they ask if it's for a building structure vessel property in years is, and then they say, is it on the state register of historic places, which I do not believe yours is. But then the question is, has the historic commission made the determination that it's a significant resource or historical. And so that would be like the, the go to Robin part of this, because if they have not, then it's an automatic no, according to the CPA coalition. But if it's a yes, then you kind of get back into the flowchart and can start that, then you kind of keep going. So it's, you may have seen the grid before that we use a lot. That's like, if it's preservation, acquisition, etc, etc. This is before you can even get to the grid, they have a different flowchart specifically for the historic projects that might be really helpful. Thank you so much. That totally, totally that may be the answer right there. Yeah, I just it's, it's community preservation dot org and you can kind of flow through the, the website there. Thank you. Well, okay. Yes, well, and we can certainly be in communication, you know, outside of a full meeting as we as we learn more. But it looks like Sam has, I was way make way by to us all. Okay, back to the ukulele. Okay. Well, thank you for, thank you for your comments. We hope to be able to, you know, explain better. All right, Robin. Can we, as committee request a statement, a specific statement from the town as to why Sonya came with that decision about the proposal. Sarah, if you'd like me to. Yes, please. I managed to, we managed to find the email from Stuart. Well, this is a worthwhile historic project. Community archaeology is not one of the CPA allowable uses. The project does not acquire, preserve or rehabilitate an historic resource. If anything, it is a project that supports historic resources, which is not available in the historic category. CPA funding is generally for direct work on historic resources, not for interpretation, research or signage. That was from Stuart Sagan or to Sonya. Thank you for finding that because I thought there was a determination from Stuart, but I was never going to find it. But I always have more questions. I think I saw Anna's hand first. Did you know? I mean, is it a matter of semantics and phrasing, then, of how they framed it? And it went through many iterations. So I think we need a fresh, just like forget all that. Let's have a fresh proposal. Robin. I was going to say that that was the two points. Those are some of my general thoughts about it. I believe that we, the Historical Commission did not recommend it as a proposal in its current state. That being said, it's not necessarily that there isn't a proposal in there that would fit under CPA guidelines. But again, it's more of a, it's really a question of how you define historic preservation. And I think the Historic Commission is probably the best place for that. And then I have a question for Anthony, and we don't even necessarily have to go into this, but at some point we have to establish whether the CPA coalition is the final word, because my understanding from others I've spoken to is that it is an opinion, but it is not the opinion. And it's often delivered as the opinion. And I don't know if that's right or wrong, but I'm just putting that out there. We can discuss it at another time, but I didn't want to miss the opportunity to bring that up. I believe you're correct in that. We saw that in the Jones Library. I'm sorry. Yes. If you still have questions, ask your town attorney. Well, yes, your town's attorney. Okay. Well, I know we're going to come back to this, but I'd like to move on for them for the moment and go next to the CPA tax abatement discussion. This is a standalone item really, whereas everything else is kind of interming, connects. So can we turn to that? And I hopefully, let's see. Anthony, you said you had something new, but maybe I just let Robin present this. Everybody should have gotten the something that looks like this with some more information. Did everybody get that? I don't have a chance to review it. Show of hands. I see some thumbs. All right. If three of you got it, you all got it. I got it, but I would like to hear Robin discuss it. Okay. That's fine. So for anybody who's new to the committee, I guess that started last year, I'm going to try not to be wordy. It's a rather simple request. Because of the nature of my work in a community development office up in Greenfield, I was made aware that there is something called a low income exemption from the CPA surcharge. And I attempted to see if I qualified for it myself. And out of that personal experience, I got no not criticizing the town at all, but just factually, I got one incorrect answer that we didn't have an exemption for low income people who weren't elderly, which wasn't correct. I forwarded the information to show that it was correct. So my experience was just that I didn't know it existed. I got a wrong answer. And when I went to the website, it couldn't find the information. And I would like us, I'm essentially motioning for us to ask the town to provide a flyer. And I had this idea for a flyer. And then when I went to the CPA coalition website, they had a page on this very thing. I think I tried to link to everything in that document that I sent around. But it was like, oh, here they have a whole page on, oh, there's these exemptions. How do you let your community know about them? So the flyer would be when you get your tax bill. Look, you might qualify for an exemption. And then the other suggestions are just small tweaks to the assessor's website under personal exemptions, where you actually see the letter CPA, so that you know, to click on what you're looking for. And that's just to make it transparent. I feel like in my own personal experience, rather recently, I've always known sort of theoretically, but now I know personally how incredibly obscure things like this can be. And I think that it's our obligation to do everything that we can to make sure that people who this is their this is their money, it's their right to take this money back, they have to go through a process to do it, which is complicated enough. The information should be given to them, they shouldn't have to go seek it. Robin, do we know in other communities how many people exercise their right to the exemption? We don't. And we had that discussion once before, and in my opinion, it's sort of irrelevant. You know, I mean, I'm somebody who, you know, I was just over the income level, but you know, I was, if I made a little bit less money, I'd be eligible. I mean, if it's one person, it's one person. Yeah, I'm just wondering, just actually like how just yeah, just from facts perspective. Yeah. And there's also, there's just, there's also a slightly higher income level exemption for elderly. So if you're elderly, your income can be a little bit higher and you qualify and you have to reapply every year. And the low income exemption and maybe, I don't know, maybe all of them, there are, there are income limits based on household size, and they change every year, which I suppose is, I might change every year, which is why you need to check every year if you're eligible. Right. So I thought I had seen Anthony's hand fly. Yes, please. So I had a meeting with the assessors and some other people from finance today about this among other things. So there was some confusion about whether the abatement exists or not, but it definitely does. There are a small number of people each year that apply. I think they said we only had two last year or the most recent year. Um, the, the assessor is going to add it to the website alongside the other lists, the other personal exemptions that are available. We talked a little bit about doing some sort of insert. They would, it would probably not be exclusively for the CPA exemption, but rather about Yeah, I mean, I'd be in, I mean, I'm more in favor of that. I'm just speaking from the CPA point of here right now. Did I get everything from that meeting, Holly? Is that cap? The only thing is, I mean, we can't decide whether they put a flyer in the tax bill or not. That's up to the tax collector and the assessor. So, I mean, we can, that's the only thing that I want to say is as strong as we want to push for it. It's not a given. It's really depends on them because it's, it's additional time with postage and stuffing bills and mailing and whatnot. So I'm not saying it's out of the question, but it's just not a decision we can make that will ultimately be up to the tax collector and the assessor in charge of the billing. Sure, but we could, we could formally make a request and they absolutely are willing to and, and to, to hear that discussion and agree that, you know, it, it was little known and they were, they will definitely help. Super. Sam. Thank you, Robin, for bringing it up and pursuing it. It's certainly a worthwhile endeavor. I agree with you that if it's one individual, that it's worth doing because it is money that is designated for CPA and it does come from the taxpayers. I have a thought regarding, you know, that it's the tax bill is department's decision and town collector's decision. We could conceivably, if it came to that offer, as the CPA see administrative expenses to facilitate that inclusion. My guess, I don't know what the printing of that many items would be, but we do have an administrative budget. And if the committee felt when the time arises that that was warranted as an expense, that would be one avenue to consider. I do think it's a desirable and worthwhile benefit to the community to be informed in whatever way that might be best, whether that is putting it on the assessor's site, which they're doing, whether it be mailing it out or whether it be other methods on the town website. But that's my comment that we do have administrative capacities from the budget if the committee thinks it makes sense. And if it's deemed eligible, but I certainly like pursuing it. I mean, I hope it could be incorporated. If a flyer is going to be an annual event, I hope it could be incorporated into the assessor's budget, but maybe they would need help this year to move that along. I would also note that we can announce the exemption on our own website, right? So the CPA committee has a website and we can give people a link to the assessor's office for more information. So that's, that is in our, I assume, or Robin. I'm in favor of that as well. I mean, I feel pretty strongly about the flyer idea. And, you know, outside of this, I know there's a, I believe an elderly low-income exemption in general that I think my mother isn't aware of that. I'm really in favor of the flyer because I think that's the point of purchase. You know, when you get your bill, that's when you should know that you might not have to pay part of this bill. And I'm also really in support of Sam's idea. That's a great idea, Sam. I think, you know, we can put in part of it to support that, you know, and there are other exemptions that the town covers, but, you know, I give my vote there, too. It's, if it were a flyer, it could, in normal times, be near or part of the senior center and an announcement to go out in the senior newsletter about this. There's no reason why you can't pursue multiple attacks. Holly, that was actually mentioned today as well, is that not only the CPA exemptions, but there are other exemptions. And one of my suggestions was exactly that, is to talk to our new senior center director and ask her, you know, at this time of year when the tax bills will be coming out to just put a link to the assessor's website in it. And they put out a newsletter, right? I don't know what the timing is. I don't know if it's monthly or quarterly, but they definitely do newsletters, yes. Robin, would you like to make a motion that doesn't shut off discussion, or do we not even feel we need, maybe we don't need to, or maybe we need to formalize our interest in this subject? What do people think? Can I ask a question first before we so I guess the thought of a mailer is making me a little bit squirmy. Just it is so expensive to do bulk mail. And so I think that that's my question is really kind of, if this is something we can make sure we're being really strategic about, if it is a flyer, if that's a mailed postcard or whatever it is, I would hesitate to just automatically jump on that plan without really exploring it deeply. I mean, maybe I'm off base. If it's something, yeah. I like the hands going up, please tell me I'm not going to cost us thousands of dollars. But yeah, that's my concern. Okay. Anthony will now give us the good news. Yes. So to be clear, this would be an insert in the paper tax bills. It wouldn't be its own. It would go with the tax bill. It would be increased because it's a margin. Yeah. Probably no additional postage needed. Probably just the paper. Robin. Yeah. And just to reiterate on the flyer, it reaches everybody who pays the tax. And the problem is that some of the exemption, this exemption is not for somebody who's elderly. I feel it should reach everybody and everybody should know what rights they have when they get the bill. But I agree with all the other outreach efforts too. But if it's in the bill, there it is. Well, why don't you go ahead and move whatever you'd like to move? Oh, okay. I mean, I don't have my paperwork in front of me. It can be, it can be terse. Okay. I move that the CPA committee recommend to the assessor's office that a flyer be included with annual tax bills indicating the CPA exemptions available and instructions on how to apply and determine eligibility. Lovely. Is there a second? Sam, your second? I have a question. Can we need a second first? I think. Katie, thank you. Whoops. Diana. I was too, I was too. I unmuted quicker, Diana. Next slide, Seppardy. You two can find it out. Sam, you have a question. Robin, did you mean recommend or request? Or does it matter? I meant recommend. It's fine. I'm good with either. I just heard a different one the other day, so I'm going to clarify. Sounds good. And how, I would just ask, do, how, how will we know? I guess those of us who get tax bills will know it eventually. We're going, we're about to get our first quarter tax bills. Yes. And another month or so. Is that right? I don't know. I don't pay attention to that. I got mine. They're paying on the 1st of February. Okay. So, okay. They have to be mailed out by June 30th and by December 31st. All right. Well, they'll figure out the schedule then, but I just wondered if we, if we want to have any more feedback from them or Holly, you and Anthony know, and you can just tell us what's happening. Yeah, we'll, we'll convey, we'll convey the request. Okay. The assessor and we'll convey their response and plans. That's great. Okay. Are we ready to vote? All right. So roll call vote. Though if you're in favor of the motion, please say aye. Sam. Aye. Anna. Aye. Diana. Aye. Katie. Aye. David. Aye. Robin. Aye. Sarah Isinger. Aye. Sarah Marshall. Aye. Wonderful. Thank you, Robin, for, I'm sure you will have many, many grateful taxpayers. We all will. So that's, that's everybody. What's that? I wanted to thank Holly also for, I wanted to thank Holly for pointing me to where it was on the tax bill. I have to say it's so incredibly tiny. But I did find it. But not in print only on, you have to go online. Is that right to see that detail? Or is it in the, no online, it's easier to find on the tax bill. It's below, there's like big numbers and then this, it's tiny little number between below all the big numbers. All right. Thank you. All right. Let's move on then. I consider basically everything else to be connected to the CPA plan revision. So before we tackle the plan, I'd like to talk about some of the issues that will relate to it. And the first is the schedule planning for next year. And I think I asked people to come with their ideas. Anthony put his in writing. So maybe he can just throw his up and we can respond to it. I think there was some agreement that the, we made it through a very compressed schedule. And whereas the committee may have done fine, it was hard on our applicants. And we didn't always have enough turnaround time. So we would like to expand it a bit. All right, Anthony. So how is this different? Okay. So it starts in pretty much the same place, the first Thursday after Labor Day. We would meet, review the financials, the debt schedule, go over the proposal form and re-review, I guess the timeline or any other changes we want to make. Kind of the first difference is that there was a little bit of a delay in getting the form up and we wouldn't do that this year. We meet on Thursday the 9th, the form goes live Monday the 13th in the, pretty much immediately. The deadline for proposals is just under a month after that, under what I'm proposing, Friday, October 8th, which is the Friday before Columbus, in Columbus Day, slash Indigenous People's Day. I would, rather than having the deadline at the end of the day, I'd set it for noon so that I could immediately distribute it to the committee. Questions from the committee for the proposers would be due the week after, the Friday after that, the 15th. Distribute them to the proposers the following Monday with answers from the, from the proposers due that Friday, the 22nd. This year was very compressed. It was, it was officially 10 days, I think, between deadline and the first presentation and this is 20, this is more like 20 days. And I think it was actually even less than 10 days in reality because some proposals came in later. We would still start presentations at the end of October. This schedule would budget three weeks for presentations with, with this meeting having to be put on a Wednesday instead of a Thursday due to Veterans Day. Once again, public hearing the week before Thanksgiving on November 18th. Then we come back after Thanksgiving for vote and final report. So we're still beginning and ending in the, around the same time. But I think it's a more reasonable series of events for the question for the proposal deadline and the questions and answers. If needed, the committee could start before Labor Day, if we wanted more time at the beginning, or there's room after, after the last, after the start of December and Christmas to add more meetings in December if we needed to. So that's, that was my thought, those are my thoughts. Thank you. We have a, now I have a straw man. So Robin, I saw her hand first. Go ahead. So, can you keep that up? I'm sorry, sorry. And then I have to, not sure I'll see people. Yeah, I see you all. Okay. Okay. Yeah, Robin. So I think for, I mean, this Northammer's proposal was a good, a kind of learning test for us. I have seen, I don't think that my comment goes within the schedule. I think this is fine. I think what the historical commission needs is some way, and I've seen other grants which do this, which sort of preannounce when the application is coming out and give an opportunity to really stress to us for at least, you know, for all the areas, for historic preservation, which seems to be the area that gets the most outside proposals to come to the commission for guidance on the other programs people submit a pre-application letter where you just give a brief summary of what you're looking to do. And then you, you get a response from that that might be too complicated given the various categories that we have. I don't know that that's necessary, but I think that we just like people like Meg and her group to be able to come to us ahead of time and we can tease out the project and figure out what the piece is fit, give them a sense of, you know, what an expectation for fun is. I think if you have an idea in, you know, August 15th and submit a proposal by October 8th, that's not a lot of time developer really well with proposal. I mean that's just, we need people who spent more time kind of pulling something together that's got a lot of weight behind it, but we want to be there as the commission to help people with that process. So that's, that's my feedback. And Sarah E, thank you Robin. Your hand was up early. Yeah. So building on what Robin said, I think we should build in an information session here. Either the day, you know, the week after the proposal goes live, so people read the proposal and it's a drop in information session where you can ask questions. You can and see if your project fits or if you want to understand more about it. And so I would, I would, that would be something I would recommend. Thank you, Katie. I like that idea. I think an info session is helpful, whether it's, as Robin was suggesting, sort of through the commission or different areas, but I like that idea. And this is coming from a newbie, but I'm just wondering if we had a meeting this spring where we, could we just simply update the proposal and have it done so that it could be live, I don't know, all summer, for example, and just, it feels like it's a compressed period of time and that in order to create greater access, people need more time. They need more time for asking questions. We have good, I like the way Anthony laid this out to, for us to ask questions of the proposers, but I think there's the opposite way. And so whether it's an information session, but there needs to be more time, I think. So is there a reason, can we update the proposal form? Like we talk about, and I know we're going to talk later about potential of creating a rubric and it just seems like you could do the two things kind of hand-in-hand in the spring and have it ready earlier and live. It needs to fall. Let's get some more comments out first. Anna, I don't think you've spoken yet. Yeah, I had the same idea in terms of offering essentially really turning a focus to community outreach and facilitation of the application process. So even if we did an open meeting has other connotations, but what I mean is a general open space for people to come ask questions, even if we did. I really like Katie's idea of offering the form in advance and really making clear the priorities, making clear the offerings and supporting our community through writing the applications. I think that that, I mean the district one application is such a good example of if we'd been able to jump in sooner, if they'd been able to meet with historic preservation and conservation earlier, it would have made a market difference in their application. So I would really try to back up that idea of opening the proposal form earlier and adding in some meetings for us to help facilitate or especially I think Anthony and Sonia and Holly to be there as well and facilitate that process for them in either early September or late August or earlier if we're able to get the form up earlier. Thank you, Robin. I love the information, the question idea. I would like to see it much earlier than that. And I don't think we could have the proposal open, but we could certainly have a template for it and still have that small deadline. And I'm thinking, I wish I had brought this home with me, but the Historical Commission has a, I just got a postcard from them for their upcoming round of funding. And I think they, well, let's see, they do open, I guess they do have an application session, information session in the middle of a rather wide period where they are accepting proposals, but their application materials, I mean their application information session is January 15th and the deadline isn't until March. So there's a substantial amount of time where, you know, you come to the session and then if you have time to follow up, you can do the proposal and still make that March deadline. So I would prefer to see it sooner than, I mean later, earlier, a broader, you know, six to eight weeks, I think, for proposals. Diana, sorry, go ahead. Well, I was just going to say, I don't see why the proposal form couldn't be live from, say, mid-August, if we, if we scout it all worked out in the spring, what we wanted in it. I like the idea of making the process more open and not having it too restricted in terms of time. There are, if you think about what September is like for people who have kids and so forth, it's, it's a really hectic time. And so August is quieter and people would have time to consider it. I doubt it will increase our load substantially and people will say we're more transparent and more open. So that's my thought. My, my feeling is that looking at, looking at what Anthony has for us to do on September 9th at this point, that the some of the, the financial parts, the financial aspects have no impact on the applicants. Doesn't affect, it's not like we tell them, oh, we're only going to have $800,000 this year. That's, that's not important information or helpful information for them. So I also would like to put out, put out the proposal form, put it up on the web, you know, and accept, accept proposals as they come in. It doesn't mean we have to look at them until, you know, the window has shut, but I would like it to be open in the spring because in my experience, nobody does any work in, in August or even July. And a lot of the committees and boards that folk, community members at least, or even the, the committees and boards themselves need to discuss internally and get a, get signed off from their, you know, their, their public bodies. Having it trying to make it all happen in, in September or even in August or July, I don't see it happening. I don't see why we can't open the window in May. You know, offer any kind of, I'm a little, I'm a little wary of some of the, the things that have been suggested for discussing with potential proponents because I don't want to be put on the spot and to say something's eligible or not eligible. I think that creates, you know, and look at how much we're struggling with some of these issues. So we can, we can figure out that part, but I, I agree. I would like that when that window open much sooner. And in September, we can still do the financial piece and revise our timeline and, you know, get ready to, get ready to go. I like that. I like that. Anthony. So I think I do anticipate any objections from staff about having the proposal form available a bit earlier, like, like in August. I have some reservations about having it open as early as spring, which are, if it's open for four or five months, it's, I think it, when it's open that long, you first you have kind of a long period where I think you might lose a little bit of momentum over the, over the early summer. I think I would also anticipate that if anybody does actually take advantage of it that early, they're going to have second thoughts and revisions and we'll need to submit a second or third time closer to the fall. And I also am a little wary of having people who might submit in May and then it's basically radio silence for them for a few months. So I, I'm okay with earlier. I'm wary of that early. That's all. What I, what I think would be, it's, it's, I don't see it as necessary for people to be able to submit it early. What I think people need to know is what the process is going to be and what they're going to need to do. And so that they have ample time to do that and meet with the historical commission or the, or the rec department, you know, do all those things. And then, okay, in September, they can type it all up and submit it. But I would like the, I would like the program to be announced and the how to announce early. That's, that's my, yeah, Sam. Oh, and then Holly. Yeah. I agree with your comments, Sarah, and with some of the other folks. I see, you know, three different topics being discussed and two issues relevant to the calendar. The topics is general outreach to inform people of the program, but quoting or, you know, agreeing with what Sarah and others said that the issue of people being aware of it. I think it was you, Sarah. And I don't see any reason why we can't have the form or what individuals or groups, what they need to do. I would have a difficult time putting together a significant pro proposal with everything else I do in a three week or one month time period. I think we need to get the information of how they apply on an ongoing basis. And the deadline can be what it will be, but anyone, whether it be the district one association or others, I think they're going to need significantly more time. They're going to look at the, you know, what's this process, they're going to talk for their internal folks. So I'm an advocate for having the information available on an ongoing basis. Here's how you apply. Here's what the form looks like. I think it's less significant what the deadline date is. We can determine that, but the burden for organizations who aren't familiar with it is how does this work? And the earlier and the more clear we can get that out there, the better. That's the information standpoint. So I agree with you, Sarah. Regarding the calendar, you know, a proposal deadline can be whatever it might be. Individuals and groups will need a deadline in order to get to the table. But what I see is I still see a compressed timeframe based on my experience from the time that we get the proposals to when we ask questions to when they give us the responses, those questions and how much time we have to look over it. I think it's in our interest if there are proposals that, you know, are complicated or that, you know, we want to know more about to have a greater amount of time in the questioning and the answering period. When it's compressed and we're all busy, we may miss or we may not research a few things that we wish to. So I would advocate to have the information transparently out there early in the spring, as you suggest in terms of how to apply. And I would advocate more time between when the proposals live in the website. We have four days, I believe, from when the questions get distributed to proposals to when they answer. I don't know if that's enough. Maybe it is. But I would be an advocate for another week in that October time period to allow the committee to review what we receive and to really think it over. Thanks, Sam. Holly. So I just got a couple of quick points, if I may. I really like Robin's idea of making that announcement. And that's why I think it's really important you guys are having this discussion right now. So you know when that deadline is so you can put an announcement out there in the spring or the summer saying, you know, proposals will be due on x state start planning now. But the problem I would have, and this is my own personal opinion, is you're asking people to propose a project 15 months if you put it out in the spring before they can ever see that money. And people might not even have their ideas ready at that point. I think that's the reason why is because this is tied to the fiscal year and the money is not available till July 1st. Is it earlier you push this, people are going to lose out on that opportunity because they don't even know what they need or want yet. And I know that is that way with many grants, but also you have grants where you can apply for them and you get the money in a month and you're ready to start spending. We're tied to the fiscal year in the July 1st date. Springtime is over a year before they'll ever see a penny. And I agree with you, Sarah Marshall, about the information sessions. I would be a little leery of them because you're giving people advice that we're not really qualified to do, and I would be afraid of the information session. More information on the website and more announcements. And this is the date and start planning now and go to the committees and links to the committees and things like that I think are super helpful. Kate, Dave. Got on mute. Got on mute, Dave. I'm on mute. There you are. Can you hear me now? Yes. Sarah, do you hear me? Yes, I do. Go ahead. I don't know whether I'm moving, stepping ahead of your plans for tonight and sharing other information, but I will say that given the schedule that we have received, the proposed schedule, this will come back to the questions that I raised earlier about the information session for those individuals who have an interest or desire to write a proposal or present a proposal. More of a hands-on situation instead of looking at the website and said the website is telling us this, do this, do that. And if I understand what was happening with the comments from Meg earlier, we should not be getting comments at the end of the process about a proposal if it was midded and met whatever the deadlines are. Got on mute, Sarah. That certainly is desirable, but clearly there are differences of opinion around some things even last year, the whole special projects. So I mean, there's a limit to how, I don't know, how clear we can be ahead of time. It seems like in the end, we may have to consult, you know, consult lawyers. But yes, we also, I just remind the rest of the committee, we do have this little outreach subcommittee and we do, we are going to be developing, you know, the list of resources and things to put on the webpage and ways to reach out without, without like prejudging whether a certain project is going to be eligible or not. Okay. Robin. So many thoughts. I'm going to stick to one. I would like to say I'm just a more compressed schedule. We're not going to have an info session this year because we don't want tiptoe into saying something's eligible, not eligible. I'd like to see something go out in July and the reason I'd steer away from the spring is to use it in regard to the proposals themselves, but I think that gets stale. You know, Robin, we're having a lot of trouble hearing you. Is there a way maybe you could turn off your video? It might help. Is that for other people? All right, I'm having a hard time getting it out. Is that better? Did that help? Yeah, I think so. Anybody? You think so? Yes, we'll start talking about it. Yes. Yeah, it is. Okay, I am talking. Okay, thank you. So I wouldn't want, I wouldn't want an announcement in, you know, April or May. I think that's too far out and I think that the idea of the application would get stale. I think July would be a better time. I agree with Sarah that summer is difficult, but it is what it is. You're giving people the information, even if we had something like a fact, if we sent out, I don't know, whatever, if we had some sort of link to whether it was a draft copy of previous year's application or something to get ball rolling. But the thing that I would see on it and the reason that I have a lot of thoughts is that the historic preservation piece of the CPA seems to be so different from the rest of it. It's like we really get a lot of, a lot more potential to get outside. Everybody hearing me because it looks like everybody's frozen. Yeah, we hear you. I hear you. You can hear me? Okay. Yeah, please continue. Yeah. Okay, I'm good. My video is giving me absolutely no feedback. I'm not sure what's going on, but the historic preservation seems to need the most, seems to have the most people who are not familiar with applying for proposals and they need the most notification and the most connection with our commission. So whatever sort of announcement we've put out, I would want to see a really strong encouragement to connect with the commission with their proposal idea so that they kind of get that pre-vetting. We wouldn't be telling them that we liked their proposal or we didn't, we'd be giving them guidance. I mean, our objective is to find projects that we can fund. So I think that that would be helpful. But I would more of a July 1st through to September 13th with the opening of the applications timeline. Thank you. Katie. I had a few things I wanted to either say or questions until Holly mentioned the 15 months timeline piece. And so I just wanted to ask again as a new person why we're doing it in the fall if payment isn't made until July 1. Is there a reason? I mean, do we have to do that? Anthony. This has been a request from the council and really it lines up with requests even before we had a council to consolidate our capital planning and other funding resources to have them in place and brought before the council more or less simultaneously. So everything is kind of every basically the council wants to have this stuff in front of it at the start of the at the start of the calendar year is my understanding. Beginning of the budget process. Yes. It used to not have to be ready until town meeting, which was April. But the budget process is in full swing right now and they are already wanting to know these things. Okay. Well, I guess I will limit my comments to say that I agree with that. What Robin was just suggesting. In my grant making experience, six to eight weeks is the maximum you want open for an application. That's enough time. However, I think Sam mentioned and Sarah and Sarah M mentioned, you know, the idea of having an announced or opportunity or knowing when the deadline is in the spring is really important for people planning and thinking. But as Anthony said, if it's too long, there's no way that all of those are going to be still in play. There's so many things that factors that change in four to five months. So I would be I love the idea of extending it into the summer. And also my experience is there are a lot of grant proposals doing the summer and people do that because when there's money involved, people do apply and they do have more some more flexibility. So I don't have any, I think people will start doing that work in the summer. And I agree with Sam. I definitely need more time to review proposals. So I would, I just really need, I think I would, I'm underscoring that request if we could possibly create another week in there for reviewing them. And the other thing Sarah M, you mentioned about, you know, we don't need to, I think we can put the proposal, you know, if we could get the proposal out earlier. But I do think it matters. People do want to know how much money is available. It does change people's decisions about whether or not they apply and how much they apply. You know, I think it is. So as soon as we know that, and that could happen in September, I think making that transparent so that applicants are like, oh, okay, this is, you know, this is the scope, the scale. That's another sort of best practice that helps guide people. I thank you, Diana. You're muted, Diana. Diana. I hear you. I don't see anything wrong with putting the proposal form up there in the spring when people are around. They shouldn't submit it until October 8th or prior to that time. But it gives them a chance to think a little bit in a more measured way about what the needs of the town are or a particular commission. I would rather give people, I worry about the summer being difficult for a lot of people because they may not even be in town. So anyway, I'd just like to support the idea of doing this earlier rather than later. Can I suggest that the form go live, let's say the submission window that the window opens like September 1st, and it can close October 1st, and that will put another week in there for us to read, make questions, get them out, see Sam had his hand up before, I think, or first. Go ahead. So I'm hearing a lot of agreement, actually, among the different individuals in the committee speaking and different subjects. It seems to me that the proposal deadline can be made earlier, whether it be September 1st or July or August. But it also seems to me that there's no reason we couldn't put the application form online to be viewed so that applicants can see what they need to produce when the form opens. So I may not have referenced that earlier when I spoke, but we can have a proposal deadline as proposal form goes live, as listed on this calendar, and we can adjust those dates, whether it be September 1st, whether it be August, whether it be July. But distinct from that, I don't see any reason why we could not put a form that doesn't get filled out in the spring. So anyone who has an interest, hey, we're going to want to do this. What do I need to know? It's in our plan, it changes occasionally, but we could have them just view it, even though it's not live for submittals. That's my thought. Anthony? I thought I was going to correct Sam, but then he said one thing at the end that makes me think he anticipated me. So I was going to say that the form is in the plan, which was going to, there's been a couple comments about things not being available year round. The plan has allowable uses, the things that the committee prioritizes in each area. It has the application form and it has a timeline. So a lot of this stuff is available all the time. But some of those things are necessarily very general. We're not going to update the plan every year with specific dates when the proposal period begins and ends. All that can be is really general. And if we're going to have the, if we are going to possibly be revealing and updating the proposal form every year, then again, what appears in the plan should just be offered as an example with the, with the warning to check the website before you apply to see the latest information. Anna? So, I mean, not for nothing. I think that you're, Anthony, you're right. It is all on the website, but I think that if it were functioning in that capacity, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think that part of the reason that we're here is because we want to see more proposals from the community. We want to see that, you know, proposals that are, that are framed in a way that we can even get in and discuss them. And so I think that that, that's where my intent behind the idea of info sessions kind of came in. And, and just the idea of doing a little bit of a shake up and how we present the, the material and where to find it. I want to be very clear. I don't think that info sessions should be any form of prejudging. I think it is kind of essentially a different medium for saying, here are the things you're going to want to think about, right? You're going to want a line item budget. You're going to want to look at this rubric of CPA allowable uses, right? Like it's, it's really just walking them through the things that they need to consider, not at all saying, I think this is a great project. You should totally do it, right? Like I, and I think it's important. We're all clear on that as we talk about the idea, but I do, I, I, even if it's not the form itself, just saying things to consider when determining if you want to apply for CPA, right? You're going to need to do a budget. We will ask you questions, right? Like just opening up the transparency a lot more in a, in another medium that isn't, I, you know, the town is, has a great website and it's really freaking hard to navigate it sometimes, you know, and so I think that that's, it's, and, and our conversation earlier alludes to that too, right? So I think that it's, this is thinking through different mediums of getting the information out there. Robin, I'm trying to think of how we move this forward to the next step of thinking about other, other entities that I've looked at for their guidelines. I don't think I've come and I was going to ask Katie and, and maybe Sarah Isinger Tudoway on this. I don't think I've come across sites that have an application available, but they do have information available, you know, all the guidelines for applying and what the dates are and everything. So I'm wondering if we could bring this to the next meeting. I could pull a few of those together and we could just decide on some basic dates and, and we don't, it doesn't have to be perfect this year. Like we start with one, one iteration and, you know, we can add detail to it and, you know, we can just discuss further with time enough to discuss further whether we want to have an info session and what that would look like. But I don't know what people think about that. Well, I would like us, I'm hoping that we can nail this part down tonight. Make any adjustments to this and then we can work out how, how we're going to communicate, you know, but just, just the counter pieces. I'm hoping. Anthony? Sarah, I was going to ask when you're ready if I could take this document down and try to just get an idea of consensus around what changes could ring. Sure. Just because I can't see everybody at once. I'm going to open it on another screen. So I'm, I'm seeing, so there's definitely consensus for starting the process earlier. I, we had this late September one and as early as May with maybe it felt like there was consensus around starting it in July or opening it in July or August. No matter what do we, and Sarah, you should probably leave this discussion, but we don't. Yeah, okay. I think, I think we're realizing we should separate the community, the outreach part and the information piece from the, when the proposal window opens and shuts. Okay. Can I, can I suggest the language being the announcement and then the opening of the application as the two separate words to distinguish between the two. Announcing. Right. Yeah. We can, we may announce at the end of June, whatever to name a date and then maybe regularly through the summer that this process will begin on whatever day, September 1st, September 9th, something in there. Okay. So and then, and then the, the proposal season, if that's it, formally, formally begins on a date we still have to fix. Okay. So, so I, I propose, I'll just raise it again as here's an option that we open that window, make the form on the website live on September 1st and close it. I can't, I don't have Anthony schedule up at the moment. So now I can't hold on, give people, give people three weeks. I recommend that you give them at least a month, if not six weeks to, to complete that proposal. And I have seen Robin where you can put up a, I hate this word dummy proposal, but the actual application that you cannot fill out. So people just know what to expect. You could also do that in FAQ as Anna was saying, you know, there's lots of different ways to do it, but as long as people know exactly what they're going to have to have ready on August 15th to October 15th or whatever that is that when it opens and when the deadline is. Then I will revise it because we, we, I think we want, if we want to have more room for the back and forth about questions and answers in writing, we have to close the deadline before October 8th or we just don't have enough time. So I would like to suggest we close it on Friday, October 1st. If that means it should open August 15th. Okay. But I, I'm sorry. I just want to jump in. I have to jump in because Andy's in the way. Yeah. Thank you. So welcome, Andy. I wonder how long he's been, been there. Okay. So how does, what do people think about August 15th to October 1st? I'll let Holly go first. So no, that's okay. I was just going to say, I think maybe you should just pin down the timeframe. Are we looking for weeks, six weeks, eight weeks? If you pin down the timeframe, then it's going to be easier to back into it. So can we get a consensus on the timeframe? Four to six, six, eight, four. It doesn't matter to me, but yeah. We have a five. Four is good. I don't have any trouble with four. As long as the form is available for people, it can be, as someone said, a dummy form. It doesn't, you don't have to fill it out. They need to know. It's available. It's available now. It's on the website. And last year's proposals are still there and maybe prior year, I don't know. So all right. Back to my first suggestion, September 1st, October 1st. So that is the application period. A window, yes, for submitting an application. Okay. I do, I don't know that we need to make up. Is everybody? I looked for the form, Anthony. I could not find it. I can find thoughts, but not the form. It's in the plan. It's in the plan. Yeah, but that's buried. Well, we'll work on that. This is different. We're just trying to establish when to, to begin allowing receipt proposals. Sam? I think what Holly indicated that once we figure out the time frame, we can work back into when we start, make sense. I'd like to raise the question, the subject of adding a week in the middle for the question period that Katie at least agreed with me on. And if that's the case, I don't know if the September 1st through October 1st works or not, whatever you think. Yes, it does because it closes the window a week earlier than Anthony suggested. Okay. That's why I'm proposing it. Okay. Are we, is everybody, I don't think we need to vote. Just October, September 1st, October 1st. Thank you. All right. And I, but we can make whatever announcements we like. I mean, we, what, maybe we've done enough of this tonight. Because I would like to end at eight and I want to touch on a couple other things. Anthony and Holly, is that enough? I'm sorry. Would you like, would you like me to revise based on input tonight with, and, and re-submit for the next meeting? Sure. And we can, yeah, we can still have a September 9th committee meeting. Yeah. But yeah, but we won't be updating the proposal form at that point. Yeah. If you guys have the form squared away in the spring, then there's no need for an immediate meeting before we go live. You could really just meet towards the end of it. Well, we can decide that later. Yeah. Okay. Holly, or are you? Okay. Sorry. Nothing. Yeah. Sarah, I had a question. I mean, have we killed this info session? I totally agree with Anna that it doesn't have to be just to go through the process. It's to say where to find the application. No, we have not killed, no, we have not killed it. I just wanted to, wanted to solidify the calendar for the specific things that are in this. Thank you. You know, and we can turn to that next, at our next meeting. Could I, oh yeah. Anna would be very, can I just say one last thing? I would be very happy if a subcommittee wanted to make some of these final decisions, but I don't know if you want to keep it in this large group. I'll have to think about that. Maybe I'll just solicit ideas by email. Okay. Okay. Anna. I have a, it's more of a procedural question. I was looking at other CPA committees to see kind of what processes happen. Holyoke does eligibility form? Is that something, I guess this is kind of my new kid question, right? Of before they even submit their application, they do an eligibility form. And so I'm curious if that's something folks have experienced before. And I wasn't sure if this fit into the calendar conversation or the other conversation, but it would impact the calendar if that's something in the future. I'm also comfortable kicking that down the road, but it's an interesting idea to again give people, it's not pre-judgment, but it's more of like from Sonia, you know, of saying like, does this technically fit in that rubric? Just thought I'm going to toss at you. Does it look like the meeting has been hacked with the Q&A, Anthony? Oh my gosh. The Q&A has been hacked. Does anybody have the answer though or? I've never seen that. I will have a look. I'm not even going to look at the Q&A. It looks like Katie has. Well, I just turned it off. So is there any real question there for us? Well, I guess our public comment period closed. So Diana, you've had your hand up. Yeah, I just want to excuse myself for a minute. Don't do any votes. I have to take the dog out. But it's very quick and I'll be back for any votes. All right. How do we get hacked? People type in random numbers and hit a meeting. All right. So Anthony will bring, will circulate a revised calendar for next time. Again, we'll have to set a meeting date and I will think about the, I don't know, announcement meeting or how we, how we communicate with the, with the public about it. You know, we, I think it's clear most of our proposals come from town and parts of the town and they know this. So we're really talking about a, at the moment probably a small group of private individuals or organizations, but hopefully, hopefully more as time goes on. Okay. So that was the schedule planning. Let's talk a bit about, and we're going to end at eight. So we'll just schedule another meeting before we adjourn. Let's turn to proposal evaluation criteria. That was another topic of concern or interest for us. And Robin helpfully, it was you, right? Robin sent in a, sent in a matrix or just a list of criteria. I don't know if they were from, from your work or just, just know that you pulled out of the plan or go ahead. Created that for when I was reviewing your proposals for the historical. Oh, that's right. To try to give us, because we also need a framework and how to kind of value and, and score and provide feedback on proposals. And it occurred to me that, you know, I mean, this is, I guess, my third year. I mean, we haven't had any sort of to find guidelines other than what do you think? So so Anthony, are you looking for that? I know I think I am. I'm having trouble finding it. Unfortunately, I Robin, do you remember what it was called? Just um, let's say, or I think I have CPA review matrix draft. Sounds right. If that helps, Anthony. Yeah, there we go. Okay. I was looking for Robin's email. It came from you. Okay. So again, starting point for our discussion. So this, I don't think this was distributed to the whole committee. So maybe you can just slowly scroll through it and then possibly just fit it on one page or fit it on the screen. Would you be able to send it to us to send it to us after as well? I could even send it. Now I'm not going to try to do it right now. That's I'll do it wrong. Yeah, that's the end. Did anyone else have have some thoughts about what maybe what just based on your own experience, what have been elements um you've looked for in a proposal that either made it more or or less likely to get your approval. Anna, I think Andy had his hand up first. Oh, I'm sorry, there there's so many people behind you. It's your hand looks like a person on this. Yeah, no, thank you Anna for deferring. I was only going to say that I also I've got a score sheet which I set up and I apologize I didn't send it to the committee but I'd set it up myself. I took all of the the metrics right from the the language from CPAC and essentially for each of the four of the four options open space, historic preservation, community housing, whatever I had like again the specific language and then you would rate it either as you know for example to ensure a vibrant diverse sustainable community for historic preservation is that project unlikely possible likely highly likely or certain right so it's it's a pull down you identify whether you know you think it's going to meet that criteria and then we can assign weights to that which is what I did as a way of trying to rank this so it it takes metrics directly from the language forces you to make a decision along a five point continuum and then we can assign weights so if we decide that you know it may be more useful to to add value to a specific metric based on the candidate pool or what we're trying to accomplish within that year you could easily tweak it. It's for me it was very useful in ensuring that I was scoring everything consistently and again I can I can flip that over and you know we can talk about it in the future or I could I could uh I mean if I could share my screen I could show it to you as well but I don't know from open meeting a lot perspective whether that's cool or not but anyhow just sharing that okay so what you've done is a is a I don't know a macro some macros in the spreadsheet is that or if you just formulas yeah yeah so it isn't something you can email or or it would be a spreadsheet I just have it as a sheets file okay you know for simplicity I'm sorry I can show it right now if you want what's that you can show it right now if you want yeah um yeah go ahead oh I'll show you know what um how about this can I or would I'm on a different can I Anthony can I just share the google sheet with you you can and then maybe try it that way yeah Sarah are we looking to resolve this this evening or well we'll see how you know we'll see how far we get I think you know as um informal as our process has has been it seems like we it's it's worked pretty well so I you know I don't want us to overthink and over specify um a process when you know the the proposals might ask for as a little as five thousand dollars you know up to a million dollars um sometimes it's pretty clear that something I mean I feel is it's a good idea or not a good idea um but this is something to consider whether we just want to just to be more explicit about factors we should be considering or do we want to actually quantify everything as Andy is suggesting I'm very impressed Andy but yeah you are seeing this right now yeah yes Katie I'm sorry Katie said her hand yeah no I just I I was doing this I'm so glad you brought this up Andy because I I did the same thing but in a such a more rudimentary way and so this is so much better um and I agree Sarah I'm about you know you don't want to complicate things for um some of the smaller requests however I wouldn't recommend that we take the scores from these rubrics and that is how we make a decision or that we combine them or do anything like that this is just helps sort of the you know inter-reader reliability kind of thing like where we all are kind of on the same page at least in terms of here are the goals we're trying to achieve then we make our own subjective kind of decision but within a scoring option I just think it helps it would help me tremendously to zero in on how to prioritize um and make a case and then we could have that discussion and debate I don't I would never want to try to quantify and make decisions based on these numbers at all so I just wanted to say that but Andy well done thank you oh yeah and actually if you click on the aggregate score sheet I completely agree with what you what you said Katie to me this is really it's a matter of um helping understand within your own rating system so like it's it's more of a rank rather than like reading into the to the scoring uh or or literally reading into the numbers but on the detailed score sheet tab um you can get a sense of how I sort of used it the essentially like for each option you would just select what what the value you know what how you want to score it um and then and then what you brought to the meeting though was not this but it was a one score for each project based on this is that correct you go to like column Z that's sort of what I ended up doing so when we said well how would I rate it right it's sort of the aggregate of all of those so so it's not that you know supportive housing was a 2.7 so much as it is the the item two I would say scored higher than the um then item one if that you can follow what I'm saying so like row five at 3.5 for the total score I gave more weight in my ranking than than I did for the support of the consulting services anyways I'm sorry go ahead dandy I was only going to say like it's it's easy to like to set something up like this and then the only other piece was on the the front was I had the the weighting was on the on the goals tab so you could just go in and change the weighting if you wanted to say something is going to be worth more and then that would that would just carry over whereas that whereas this list this is like what robin I mean these are the factors these are in words the things that one is thinking about while reading the project and it's important you know besides all the the computations that then happen it's important that we have this list you know what are the criteria what are the elements we are looking for in each kind of proposal sam uh yeah I agree with what you just said sarah it seems to me that handy's put together something that I would describe as a good job aid and I did the same thing but nowhere near as you know organized visually when I first did the proposals the previous year um so you know something that delineates the requirements from the plan allows anyone who's looking at the proposals to have in their mind the subjects that we should be focusing on for each proposal whether or not that person chooses to go through the ratings or not regardless if they do they're still in front of them the job aid of you know what the criteria are so I I think it's pretty nice and whether or not it's in its full form or not just some form of listing of what the criteria are which we have in our plan for those who wish to assign numbers for their own internal thoughts it's viable I agree with Katie that it's not something I would want to use to make decisions uh on you know based on the numbers per se but from a focusing of one's mind and you know clarity of all you know when you have a lot of different proposals in front of you you know we have 13 15 it is helpful to have something in front of you where you put the numbers that's kind of what I did too but this is a more organized method and um so I see two benefits I see the listing of the criteria as a job aid and for those who wish to have their own internal thing as a benefit uh and I wouldn't use it for final decision-making because there's so many different variables that can come into play but it looks pretty cool thanks um Robin yeah um but that is one amazing spreadsheet jockey uh there were some questions you know I don't I don't have my my uh matrix in my head but they're one of the one of the main things that I think about a lot um in terms of where we want to go forward and in discussions I've had with Jane Wald and the historical commission is the question of are people who are coming to us for funding seeking funding from other sources right and that's not something that I believe is reflected in the plan but that's something that I'd like to see the committee take into consideration because you know a lot of places offer things as matching grants that there are other opportunities out there we want to we as a commission I think want to see our dollars go as far as they can and um I think it's um relatively safe to say that that is something that other foundations look for they look for people to pair money from other places so that's an example of something that's on this list that I'm not sure would be maybe if um Andy's and my sheets got circulated to the committee and we could um either just you know use them to guide our discussions or develop some sort of you know sheet for for new members and the other thing is anytime a new member comes on I mean you're you're starting from scratch so I think having these kinds of tools are great because you know when I came and I didn't um my first year you know I just sort of listened and and and took guidance from what people were talking about around me but nothing was ever um specifically said oh you know we should consider this aspect of it but um right so Anna yeah so um Robin I'm glad you mentioned that because that was actually my my original question was around that that specific question and I I actually had a big issue with it to be honest with you I I felt that because it's not written unless I'm not understanding it I didn't feel that it was something I mean it seems like it's nice if they're looking for other funding but it didn't seem to me like something that we should use in determining in in our decision making around the projects um just because it is so variable right depending on the project depending on the applicant um and I I just yeah I that was one of the ones that I was curious why that question had been asked so often when it when it was asked um in this last round and so you did give me um a good answer to that question so thank you but I I am I'm hesitant to have that in an official matrix of of look and neither of these are official right now and I appreciate that but um I I have hesitancy around placing that in there just because I don't think that it's necessarily a fair expectation and I am not sure that it's in the spirit of the CPA kind of mission overall um Andy I want that link to that spreadsheet that was great I also had something that was was much more rudimentary um I yeah I think my my question on this it's interesting I think Andy's spreadsheet really pulls from like the direct language and this is really Robin's document is really kind of capturing a lot of the cultural questions that get asked and by that I mean the culture of this committee um and so it's it's really interesting to look at both of them that the other funds sought was the one that I was I was concerned about I I would like to say that I think what Robin's got here are our factors we would consider for every proposal and but if I maybe I didn't get to look at Andy's spreadsheet long enough I I only saw specific specific aspects of housing projects or open space projects um but that at some point like if we have these factors for each proposal we also ask is there a budget you know is it clear is it they have a you know back back to the things Robin has has outlined um that are universal that you ask of any any proposal um is it you know has it got the a sign off of a relevant committee for example um but as back to the money thing the matching or additional funds I do think it's sometimes it's very good to know um like for the Kendrick park playground that is now being you know the work is started at Kendrick park um CPA put up I actually I don't remember which came first but there's a park grant but in order to get the grant from the state you have to put put in your own money the town has to put in money too and it was CPA funds so I see that is as highly relevant because you know for six hundred thousand dollars or whatever the number was you get a million two worth of playground right so that kind of leveraging I think is is important and and no that's not going to be available for every project but um but it might help you prioritize ooh we should do this one now and defer some other priority for another year yeah and I just to be clear in the um in the question that I asked and and this came this was probably one of the first things I noticed when I was on this committee was someone asked one of the social service applicants that they thought other funding um it is just uh it's it's to broaden the scope among the applicants and it's not to disqualify anyone if there's nothing available so for example if we have a homeowner who comes to us for historic preservation funds that they have a public basing building they're one of the the categories of people that really don't have anywhere else to come but but us like every time I look at any buddy who has the question can I get money for my house they they always point to the CPA committee so there's an example of like no they you know they they can't seek outside funding but we want to encourage people to expand their reach um so it's not meant to be um something that you would mark against someone but something to prompt those thoughts and and um conversations among applicants thank you that's really helpful and clarifying so uh Andy or were you just yeah yeah no I just I want one other thing that I forgot I haven't opened the sheet in a little while the aggregate score sheet was the tab was a little bit less literal in terms of the this sort of got into what I what I set up is primary and secondary primary additional criteria oh I see which got a little bit further and then also it it brought a directional component because it's one thing you know it's one thing to say these are things we're looking for but it doesn't necessarily mean that that adds that's good or bad like for example one of the things that I was um if you look at like column p is if we think it's going to need more money in the future is that good or bad just like I I scored it as negative right so like if we thought it was going to need more I I I demoted point or I took points off and that's what sort of that little negative thing is though too so just um yeah just just thrown it out there however like I think however we think we might want to do it I like the idea of having something where we're using a standard system but it's it's an input to the process not an output like this can help this can help us maybe have consistent conversations um and and pull out you know I think some of these it's very easy to to get emotional about projects and that's something I was very cognizant of and trying to avoid as I wanted to try to keep it um you know as fact-based as possible um of course you know listening to the presentations as well provided additional information but yeah that's sort of consistent launching point okay thank you I think I need to stop this because I want to say a few words about the housing housing policy that I that's on the agenda can I ask let's see well Robin has sent her us to Anthony Andy if you can send your sheet to Anthony and then he can send them out to us and in our next meeting we figure out what we want to do with do though do with those anything you want to add or how to blend them or what you prefer or whatever how we will what we want to use internally and I guess we don't even have to still don't have to make a final decision and just Anthony pointed out there may be turnover to the committee anyway and next year they can do it um but I think I will I will push us to identify anything about this evaluation process that we want to say in the plan you know we will consider the following things and this doesn't mean we have to say we're going to use this the spreadsheet and 82 factors and we're going to great no it's just these are things we're going to think about and just to make sure that that list is is complete so does that sound all right okay so we'll come back to this I want to tell you about the community resource committee proposed housing policy it's a bit of a misnomer quickly if I can do this in a minute and a half the Amherst affordable house municipal affordable housing trust going on two years ago submitted a draft how affordable housing policy to town council they decided this is what my understanding what happened they decided to because there have been other housing a variety of housing studies done for the town in the past to they want to develop a more comprehensive housing policy not just specifically affordable that gets to where in town and how many units that you know and they have that in development and the community resource committee subcommittee of the council is is trying to put flesh you know is trying to make it very specific and in a form town council can really debate and they asked me and chairs of a couple other committees for for input and basically what's happened so far is that I pushed back saying CPA you know we will all have I'm sure have our own personal comments on housing policy that we as as residents of the community can submit as public comment at any time well once once they announce what it is but as the community preservation act committee what can we bring to that policy I thought nothing really and I'm being I'm being you know blunt because we respond the law the CPA law tells us what we can do and we respond to to proposals we can specify to the to this housing to this CRC what the law says about eligible housing projects or what what are eligible for CPA funds but that with the possible exception of Dave Williams we're not housing experts so what what as a CPA committee do we really have to say there I thought not much um but I did say if council is going to establish a priority for the town for housing CPA needs to understand what that means for us if we are then supposed to be prioritizing housing proposals over historic preservation or open space or whatever that's that's where in my thinking so far um our input can be useful so that's not to it's not to shut down our involvement I think I will send you out some some materials but it it may be lengthy and I think it's not really clear to us what we should do if we need if we should try to weigh in on the specifics of the policy or only express an opinion about the implications of a policy for our for our work so that's that's kind of what's that what what's up with that okay so maybe I'll send you some stuff but don't feel like you have to read it yet I mean we'll talk maybe maybe you can skim it or think about you know really what could CPA how could CPA be helpful if at all okay um so it's three after eight I would suggest that we just send another noodle poll around rather than try to figure out a date but let's go ahead and try to meet in February let's meet aim for a month from now or more or less there's a school vacation coming up so that sounds reasonable okay we've got seems to me we've got a lot of irons in the fire and a lot of interest in moving moving forward some of these things okay then does anybody have I forgotten something or obviously we didn't get to the plan yet so that's coming then all right then can I have a motion to adjourn and move we adjourn Sarah second Diana okay we're all called out for those in favor Sam hi Dave hi Andy hi Diana I you say that again you're muted hi I know but we have to hear and Katie hi it's my sorry Anna hi Robin hi Sarah Isinger hi Sarah Marshall hi thank you everybody thank you Anthony okay Sarah thank you Sarah Marshall yes for the adjournment we've not kept people to a roll call vote you make a motion use somebody seconds that you're done so for that one for that one we'll let you slide but people love people like voting today I think as chair she can actually just declare the meeting it's just it's done yeah I can yes I can and Andy I want to know what you do are you like investment banker or what how'd you get to go with these spreadsheets did you order very boring job you might be hired yeah really spreadsheets that could use them spruce it up you're a lot like the spreadsheets we used at the Commonwealth for bids I'm impressed that is that is very very great glad you liked it all right I'm so glad you were able to join us then yeah sorry for being late it's okay lots of meetings all right so long everyone thank you sorry Anthony