 You're still motivated to achieve and do your very best. Like for instance, we teach this to athletes, top level athletes. They have to be at the best of that game. But if they miss a shot or they blow a game, if they just beat themselves up, it's not gonna help their performance. They have to say, okay, well, it's part of being an athlete and you miss a shot. I'm just gonna get back up on that horse and keep trying. It also allows us to learn from our failures in a way that self-criticism doesn't. Because it's like, oh, okay. Well, normal to fail. Well, what can I learn from it? And it's actually more effective in that sense as well. What's up everybody and welcome to the show today. We drop great content each and every week and we wanna make sure that you guys get notified. And in order to do that, you're gonna have to smash that subscribe button and hit that notification bell. And if you've gotten a lot of value out of this, make sure you give us a like and share our videos with your friends. Welcome to the show. Dr. Neff, we're so excited to talk to you today. Oh, thank you for so much for having me. Johnny and I are huge fans of acceptance commitment therapy. We use it with our clients who are struggling with social anxiety and inner critic that keeps them from doing the things that they want to be doing. And what comes up a lot is self-compassion. And I'd love to hear your take on what is self-compassion? How do we define that scientifically? And then we'll unpack how our listeners can use that in their daily lives. Great, okay. Well, I mean, the easy way to think of self-compassion is simply turning compassion inward, treating yourself with the same kindness, care, support that you would naturally show to a friend you cared about. But the scientific definition, at least my model, which I came up with about 20 years ago, is that there's actually three elements to make it compassion, self-compassion. First is the kindness, which is kind of the most obvious, but also mindfulness. In other words, in order to give ourselves compassion, we need to be able to turn toward our pain. We can ignore it or shove it underneath. At the same time, we can exaggerate it and run away with the drama of what's happening. We kind of need some perspective, which is offered by mindfulness so that we can be kind to ourselves when we're struggling. And then the third thing, which is what makes it compassion or not pity, is other people, right? So compassion is an inherently connected stance. It's not like, whoa, is me. It's saying, hey, I'm a human being. I struggle like everyone else. So those three elements together make up a state of self-compassion. And when it comes to scientifically speaking, how does self-compassion actually help improve our lives? Well, the research is pretty overwhelming at this point. There's, I think, almost 4,000 studies at last count, including dissertations. So there's a lot of research, and it shows basically it's linked to reduced psychopathology, so less depression, less anxiety, less stress, less suicidal ideation, but also increased positive states of mind, like happiness and life satisfaction. And that's because, of course, even though it's aimed at suffering, it helps us reduce our suffering when we care for ourselves. The feeling of being connected and kindness that arises with self-compassion is actually a positive emotion. It's linked to more coping and resilience. In fact, one of the most powerful things that self-compassion offers us is the ability to deal with difficult emotional situations without being overwhelmed. It's like this armor we carry in with us to life that actually helps us get through the tough stuff. It's also linked to increased motivation, right? Some people think self-compassion is letting yourself off the hook, going easy on yourself. I mean, of course, if you care about yourself, you'll want to reach your goals. Not because you aren't good enough as you are, it's simply because you wanna thrive and be happy. So it's really amazing the literature on self-compassion and all the benefits it offers. Yeah, it's counter-intuitive. I think many in our audience would feel that being extra hard on yourself is how you achieve those goals and is how you push yourself past pain and discomfort. And self-compassion is seen in a lot of ways, especially amongst our male clients, as being too soft on yourself and not pushing yourself hard enough to reach those goals. So it does definitely feel counter-intuitive. Yeah, it's counter-intuitive. And I think that's because with our children, it's not so counter-intuitive. Like, yes, if you use the paddle, you probably will motivate them to setting, get good grades. But we know now in the parenting literature that you're probably gonna mess your kid up and cause all sorts of psychological problems. And then in fact, encouragement, support. I mean, it's not going easy on your kid, but saying, I believe in you, I want you to achieve, how can I help? That's gonna be more effective. And so the same with ourselves. Yes, self-criticism does work. We wouldn't do it if it didn't. But again, it leads to things like depression, anxiety, that undermines your self-confidence. I mean, it creates fear of failure. It can make you do things like procrastinate because you're so afraid, if you don't meet your goals, you're gonna beat yourself up. So self-compassion is a more effective motivator, right? So again, you're still motivated to achieve and do your very best. Like for instance, we teach this to athletes, top-level athletes. They have to be at the best of that game. But if they miss a shot or they blow a game, if they just beat themselves up, it's not gonna help their performance. They have to say, okay, well, it's part of being an athlete and you miss a shot. I'm just gonna get back up on that horse and keep trying. It also allows us to learn from our failures in a way that self-criticism doesn't. Because it's like, oh, okay. Well, normal to fail. Well, what can I learn from it? And it's actually more effective in that sense as well. We drop great content each and every week and we wanna make sure that you guys get notified. And in order to do that, you're gonna have to smash that subscribe button and hit that notification bell. And if you've gotten a lot of value out of this, make sure you give us a like and share our videos with your friends. I think that's where the waters get a bit muddy that most people don't really understand true self-compassion. They see it as perhaps I need to treat myself. I need to do something special for myself. But for a lot of folks, it's about giving themselves some space, listening to their inner critic and being able to navigate it, understand when that inner critic is beating themselves up and then having some tools to work with that inner critic. So because those waters are a bit muddied and a lot of people don't realize that self-compassion is the key out of how they're feeling and their demotivation and where they feel burned out, what would be the warning signs or symptoms that self-compassion is something that we need to start looking at? Ah, well basically, if you're depressed, if you're stressed, if you're anxious, if you're, basically anytime you're suffering, the remedy is self-compassion, right? It's a way that we relate to any form of suffering at any moment. You know, and it can take a variety of forms. Self-compassion is the desire to help oneself be well. Sometimes what you need to be well is a good old kick in the butt. Sometimes you need to take a break. Sometimes you need to draw boundaries. Sometimes you need to protect yourself. Sometimes you need to rest. Really know from the outside can tell you what you need. Self-compassion says, you know what? My needs are important, not more important than those of others, but at least as important. What do I need in this moment to get through and be at my best and be well and happy? And so once, so basically to answer your question, how do you know if you need it? Very simple test. You can notice how you talk to yourself when you're struggling. And again, it's not just failure or self-criticism, like how are you dealing with the pandemic, for instance, or for some difficult situation. And notice how you speak to yourself and say, would I say this in the same kind of tone of voice to someone I really cared about? And if the answer is no, you probably need some self-compassion. For myself, I mean, A.J. and I both grew up in very blue-collar households. We had factory dads, who motivation was a little bit more of yelling and screaming at the house, which we've also picked up on. And I would say that we have learned to use that to motivate us. And for myself, the trick has always been when to learn to let go of that anger as fuel and turn it into something more positive. At least that anger, that stress at the beginning, there's always been a good start, but if you allow it to drive you, it can consume you. Yeah, so actually my latest work and my latest book is all about what I like to call fierce self-compassion. So compassion has two main forms, it probably has more, but at least two main forms. One is kind of a tender, gentle form. This is our ability to be with ourselves as we are, our flaws and all, to be with pain in a kind of a gentle, nurturing way. But sometimes compassion takes getting angry. Anger directed at the alleviation of suffering is very useful, you should be angry at social injustice, for instance. The Me Too movement, this is the self-compassion movement as women stand up and get angry and say, it's not okay for you to treat me this way. So anger has a place in self-compassion. Really, any behavior that's used for the alleviation of suffering can be a type of compassionate response. I have a whole chapter about anger, because sometimes we think of anger as bad and we're supposed to get over it or be these peaceful people. Anger motivates us, it makes us brave, it energizes us, it focuses us. It can be very useful. Now, of course, the problem with anger is very easily, we lose ourselves and it becomes personal and we start causing harm as opposed to preventing harm. But again, if you're aim is to prevent harm, anger is a very effective tool for that end. It can be anyway. Well, you mentioned at the start, pity. And we don't wanna get to a place of pitying ourselves, we wanna stay motivated to reach our goal. So how does pity balance with self-compassion? Is there such thing as too much self-compassion? Yeah, so people ask me that in a way too much self-compassion is a bit of an oxymoron. Because of compassion is concern with your well-being and you're doing something that's causing you harm, it's no longer compassion, right? So yeah, you may think you're being compassionate when you're really just pitying yourself or feeling sorry for yourself or just, I really am not gonna go into work today even though in fact what would be good for you would be to go into work, right? So compassion is kind of almost defined by the outcome. So it's always aimed at the self's well-being. So pity, the big thing about pity is that it's a isolated stance. So for instance, if I were to pity you, maybe AJ for your leaf blower situation, if I was to like, oh, I feel so sorry for you, you'd be like, you know, what, what, what, this never happened to you. But if I tell you that actually I was on Dan Harris's show and I had a leaf blower incident of my own, I've been there, then it's like compassion. And it's actually, it's true by the way, I did have a leaf blower incident. And that sense of connection, hey, I've been there, this has happened to me or this could happen to me, we're both human beings. That's actually what makes it compassion. So that element of recognizing our shared humanity is actually essential and helps us feel connected to others in our suffering where self-pity makes us feel isolated from others and the isolation just makes things a lot worse.