 Welcome to the After Hours podcast, hosted by Harry Haas and James Friedlender, presented by My Investing Club. What's going on, guys? We're back with another episode of the After Hours podcast. Today, we have Johnny in chat. His name is Bomb Tiki-Tiki, so you will notice him in there. So thank you for coming on, man. What's going on? Yeah, man, no much. It's midnight, guys. Good. Dude, I think that's psychopathic that you trade up. It's midnight and we're trade. Where are you? Australia? Yeah, I'm in Australia. So like, I'm sleeping around 6 a.m. to 8 a.m. So my sleeping pass is right in front of me. I love the fucking norm. I love the passion for this shit, but good for you. You and people like Austin, dude. I don't know how the fuck you guys do. He's in Hawaii and it's like, damn, you must really love this shit. So it really props to you. Yeah, I mean, you get used to it after like the first, you know, three weeks of it. Yeah, no, for sure, for sure. So anyways, we'll dive into it. So I guess we'll start off in old-fashioned. You know, how did you get in the trading? How did you find it? And then how did you eventually find MIC? Yes, I think for me, I was kind of the perfect victim to be set up to take a huge loss on my first trade. And it was a man because of my MIC going into trading. I was really profit-focused and I was kind of, I was in my second year of uni doing mechanical engineering and I said to myself, like, this can't be it. Like I needed to find a way out of it somewhere, but I had no idea what I was going to do. And it was not until my brother actually introduced me to like the whole idea of trading that I started to get into it. And that was around about like three years ago now. So December, 2018. And from that point on, it was kind of just deep dive into as much user content as I could find. Kind of bounced around from place to place. I landed up, like, I think, yeah. I ended on Tim Sykes and I watched like all his stuff or a lot of it. And then from then on, I actually found Tim Grittani and Stephen Ducks. Oh yeah, super, yeah. Hard to say, like trading is really good DVD, which is actually where I've been. Yeah, so I started with that. I watched that like five times. And from that moment on, that was when I could really see, you know, like, this is something that I could learn and that I could actually master if I spent enough time with it. And that was my first time seeing, you know, like real in the moment trading and what it's actually like. Yeah. So after that, I went to Ducks's chat room because Tim didn't have one at the time. And I was like, I'm just gonna learn as much as I can from this guy. And what I found from observing them was, yes, I was seeing heaps of massive P&Ls being made. But to me, I've never even known about potential losses that I can make. So I'm saying like 70K in one day, like 35K in one day. But the risk to make that was just non-existent in my mind. Yeah. So the first day when I'm about to trade, I still remember it. It was like, took an FT&W three years ago and I'm just so eager to get into it. Like I'm so eager to start. And I remember saying to myself, oh, well, Tim and Ducks go in like 100,000 shares. So let me just go in something small. They must go in like one-tenth of that, which is like 10,000 shares. I was gonna say that's still a lot of shares. Hey, I'm like, oh, this is like tiny size. Like Tim was adding like the time, 20,000 pop in his trading ticket. So I'm like, this is nothing. I mean, if you don't know like size in the market, like you think it's like nothing, but like 10 cents on 10,000 shares is a grand and you're like, wait a second. And then 50 cents are like, oh, fuck. Yeah, okay, all right. So much risk goes with it. But in my head, 10 cents on 10,000 shares was a $1,000 game for me. Yes, yep. And what actually happened when I went to locate the shares was the locate fee was like 400 bucks. And like for me who never spends anything, I see that. And I'm like, yeah, there ain't no way I'm paying that. I'm like, I want to enter it first. That's way too much. Because I mean, convert that to Australian dollars at the time it was like $1,000 bucks after a locate fee. So I'm like, I'm just going to sit back and I'm just going to watch the trade play out and see what happens. And like I kid you not, it was the most perfect short you could ever have. Like perfect balance. And it just dropped like a dollar and 10 cents a share and just faded off for the rest of the day. And everyone that posted the game, like ducks made like 80K on it. Yeah, of course, right? And I have no idea like what these people's account sizes are, but I'm just seeing the numbers that are on the screen. And I'm like, and I'm thinking about, oh, like if I'd just gone in with 10,000 shares, which is way too big for my account size at the time, like I could have made 11K on this. So in my head, now I've got so much FOMO and it really just came back to bite me the very next day because I go into the market and like lo and behold, it's a ticket gapping up, one that we all know really well, the PTH, the Black Swan. Oh! Holy fuck. Oh no, I don't like where this is going, no. Oh no. And it was on the day before it, it was the day of the Black Swan move. And I'm like guns blazing like just full of FOMO thinking about I need to make that 11K that I missed out on yesterday. But this time I'm prepared. This time I'm only gonna go in 3,000 shares, which is huge for like a $7 stock. So I remember straight out of the gate, it's around 780 and on the day level, yeah, there was an eight dollar level which had like 100 million volume traded on that day. So for ducks, that was like unbreakable resistance. So like you should, like on the day, it should reach eight bucks and it shouldn't break through just because the amount of volume the trend that day previously. And me not doing anything, you know, this was a micro flight. I just slamming at the first sign of weakness. So open at 780, it slams down to like 774. I just slammed everything in thinking, oh, I'm not gonna miss the move this time. Like I saw what happened yesterday and I expected the same thing to happen. Of course, we know it didn't, like immediately pop to 780s and now I'm down 300 bucks and this is the first traffic I've ever made and I'm coming in with the expectation to see like a big green number there and now I'm staring at like a loss. And at that moment, I kind of freeze and I'm like, okay, it's still underneath eight dollars. Like, I'll just hold it, see what happens. And I haven't even placed a hard stop then. I'm just expecting that I'll be able to manually stop it when the time comes. And all of a sudden, that room starts going crazy and everyone's saying like, Guy Gentile just bought the phone. Guy Gentile just bought the phone. And I remember looking at it and I look back and my stomach just sank as there was a huge green candle from like 780s to like 840s and I'm just losing my lost at 2.2K. And at that moment, I just free, I don't know what to do. I'm like, I'm adhering headlights at this point. And this is one that just gave no relief for sure. It's instantly another huge squeeze up to 880s and I cut it. Like, thank God I cut it there because it did go to 74 later. But that was my first experience with trading and I had a big loss of shit after two months. That's pretty normal. That's more normal than you probably think though. I talked to a lot of people who like very early, they take some dumb big loss. It's just you happen to pick like one of the worst squeezes of all time to try it on, but that's just like luck, right? I mean, that could be anyone technically. So from here, you took that loss. I'm sure your confidence is like shot to shit because I know if that were me, I would be like, fuck, I can't do this. What did you do next? Like, where did you go from there? So immediately what I did was I went into my room and I typed in, how to deal with trading losses. They were going to say cried or something. Farmer. Alcohol, drugs. Wait, did you say farmer? Is that what you said? It was, yeah, it was farmer that came up as the first video. Oh, dude. Oh, my God. So I had to get this back. But yeah, from that moment on, I pulled my size way back. And I really just focused on learning the setups and knowing how much I'm going to lose before I go into the trade. Now with MIC, I actually didn't find out about that until two months later when someone was posting this person's chart in the room and this guy was getting like bottom tech, top tech, bottom tech, top tech. And I'm like, who the fuck is this guy? I think his name was like, SniperTrader21, if that rings a bell. Oh, it was like an Harriet, that was bad. Oh my fuck. Yeah, so it was actually a very short that had been posted into. And there were like quite a few of them. I think it was like D-A-R-E, first bounce was one of them. Oh really? So they were looking at my chart in the doc's chat room. Oh, wow. So everyone was viewing your charts and I just immediately went on like Twitter, like go to check this guy out, saw all your charts and then I just saw like first bounce, first bounce, MIC. And I'm like, I'm just no brainer. I just clicked, I'm like, yeah, okay, like I'm gonna sign up and see what this is about. That's awesome. Yeah, so I joined MIC and this has been like, I don't think Tom Diesel was even at this point. It was pretty early on. Those are good days. But I remember going through like as many as I could. How about? I don't know. He said those are good days. He said those are good days. Tom, that popped out of my nose. Okay, anyway. Yeah, so I watched like all of Harry's stuff, all of your stuff, James, you had out at the time, I think you were just making like, you were like three videos out, I think. Yeah. And then the time for the first bounce came and it was like, it was, you remember at Harry, like the legendary OPTT, first bounce. Oh my God, that was epic. Major throwback. Yeah. Yeah, memory lane today. Bro, man, that trade, there were a couple of trades where I was in uni and we have these like study groups. And so for that particular like OPTT one, we had, I had like 10 to 20 people that were just fucking constantly watching me trade because at that point I was like, oh well, I'm making money is like, I'm able to trade during class now. That's basically what I would do. And so I remember that one was in the morning and I had this like, for whatever reason, 830 study group and absolutely no one fucking studied. Everyone was just watching me trade this. So I remember I called out like, everyone was like, oh, what's your watch list? Like what's your plan on this? So I was like, all right boys, setting up for first bounce, let's go. And I remember just writing in them, I see Chad, you can probably find it in the archives, like, all right, first bounce coming, first bounce coming. And I did not expect it to do that. It did like move down a little bit, like got off the like notch, started building back up. And it like stalled for a little bit. And like, I was already in like decent size. And I was like, oh, should I cut it? Should I not? And everyone's like, don't cut it. What are you talking about? So I'm like, all right boys, I won't cut it, stop loss for break even. And all of a sudden this thing just ripped and everyone behind me was like, oh. Oh. Oh, I remember, yeah, so after it ripped and then it was like you sending your average from literally like the notch and then 10 minutes later you're like, boom, I'm done. Yeah. Boom, I'm done. I missed the first bounce days. Some of those used to like fucking rip, dude. Like I remember like the first bounce days. Oh, those were awesome. So did you trade that? Did you trade OPTT as well? I was too scared to pull the trigger. Cause I was still at PTSD for my big loss and like I'd just learned it. So I was kind of just on the sidelines and I remember having my finger on the trigger but when the time came I was too scared to actually enter. Well, especially when you, and this is the problem with me when I first started longing, like I know you do mostly shorts now, but when I first started longing I had learned all this short material and you like conditioned yourself to believe that stocks can not go up. Like you literally like, I don't even know what it was when I was learning how to short but I was like, oh, I just can't do this. Like this is impossible. Shit company, they have dilution, they have warrants, they have resistance on the daily. I'm like, nope, can't go up, can't go up. And then you get stubborn, stubborn, stubborn blown out. And then that's when the real move obviously comes. And so I think as a long I've just been because I had that kind of short background first and that kind of conditioning as a short seller. I know when shorts are in trouble and I know when situations are happening where it's like, okay, this stock should have died a long time ago. Now I'm gonna start looking for this long position. Like for example, yesterday we had rally, which was a ticker that was red on the day. And we had broken red to green, we had came back. At that point it should have died, right? But we started creeping and creeping and now all of a sudden we're green again on the day. I know a ton of people are probably short underneath that red to green level or at least risking it. And we just started ripping above it. And that's what made a great long, right? It's just understanding the other side of the trade and who's trapped, you know? And I think that particularly has benefited me a lot as far as like my journey and what I've kind of done. Definitely, if I walk too long, then that's the approach I would take. Cause whenever I'd think about long, I'd only think about where would the majority of the shorts be entering? Where would they be willing to risk? And if they were to get pushed and that's pain, where would that be? And then kind of basis of that. Like authentic ideas that form real time. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah, and it's so hard and difficult to say every morning like, what the long watch list is, because you could have three stocks doing amazing volume. And yes, you have the support and yes, you have all that. But if the stock pops and doesn't insane fucking stuff move down, you don't want to necessarily be longing that support line. You may get a little bound, but it's not really what you want. And then all the money flow switches to this one. And your supports from the bottom are completely thrown out the window. It's never going to get there because everyone's kind of buying this one now. So that's what has kind of been difficult for me as far as low hang fruit, it's a lot easier because number one, the stocks are dead. And you kind of have an if then scenario of, okay, if this pops here, then we're going together in a situation where we probably see some sellers that like whatever 750, whatever. And then the stock tanks again, it's a lot easier I think to do something like that. And okay, I'm looking to go along this one or that one. And even in a market like this, like for me, at least the hot chicks have not been that great. Like I've been longing other ships because I mean, I've been longing day two ships. Yeah, yeah, all the time because I've found that the day one tickers have been really choppy. They're not great for shorts. They're not great from long. They're not really directional for me. Like if you look at something like, I don't know what the ticker yesterday that I stock or whatever, but you know, we're literally in a chop, chop, chop range. And for me, I mean, I really got into longing because like I love the adrenaline and I love the big moves and I love being able to get in early and seeing those. It's the best of course. Yeah, yeah, 100%. And so when I'm in a situation where it's just range bound and choppy and every single time we break high day, we stuff and go lower. Like I just don't like that trading environment. I just feel like it's not really like friendly for me. But when I can get into something like rally where everyone's like, it has to go down. It has to go down. It has to go down. And we're freaking squeezing everyone out. That is the most rewarding feeling for me. And I feel like that's been kind of really important for me as well, just recognizing situations like that. Yeah, just with what you're saying, I feel the same way about the hot shake, not being the one that ends up having a huge move to the upside, just because everyone really just expects it to happen. So like, in a way, the market kind of doesn't let it happen. But we've been getting these broken stocks which are really broken, really give in from VWAP. And then all of a sudden, you know, they'll just teleport kind of right through VWAP and then just continue from there. Yeah, I think it's hard. And I give like longs more credit for this. But like, I think it's really tough when people want like a long loss to Harry because like, I feel like most of longing, everyone just assumes, like when my friends get into trading or they want to, they look at like the top gainers list. So all they see is the hot chick, which we see in there like, oh, this has to be it, this is gonna go to 50. Like I had a buddy the other day, text was like, this stock got FDA approval, like this is gonna go to 50. And I'm like, that's nothing, that I guarantee you, like Harry and the other guys aren't even thinking about wanting that shit because it's a short, I know everybody's hitting the first, we're hitting it. So I think it's tough because it's a long, it's a lot more feel too. It's like a broken stock. Like if it starts firming up at a certain level, like that's a lot of feel, that's a lot of like, there's no technical part to that, I feel like. And it's like, sure, like if you want to be like a technical long, you say, yeah, I'm gonna long at the break says level and, you know, get out of it goes back under, but like, it just doesn't work that way, especially in this market. I don't think it's very, it's very much more feel and like, you know, longing the stocks that everyone's kind of avoided. I mean, everyone's just like dumped in short, I guess, like it was gonna get squeezed out and so broken. Yeah. Those are not broken down, but don't break down. You know, that's where everyone gets trapped now. I think, I feel like the edge has changed so much because I feel like when we first got into trading, Harry too, like longing, I think it was harder back then because I think like a lot of stuff, we just had faders all the time. Like, I think it was much more as a long as a, you very much had to be nail and bail, like it was a much more scalpy mentality. And I feel like now it's like with the, with the resurgence of like being a short seller, like that has like, that has revitalized longing. And that's kind of when you switched to longing too is when you, when the shorting became like the only popular thing to do. Yeah. I mean, I was going back the other day looking at like times like Alex has like mentioned me on Twitter, just like going back for the old tweets just cause I was bored. And you know, I saw this one chart for me. It was like IGC where I just shorted the pop and covered the bottom. And he's like, oh, great trade from Harry here. And it's like, that was the time where I was shorting, but I was also learning longing. You know, like I was, I was, I was still shorting. I was still consistent shorting, but I was also learning. Okay. How do I get into longing? You know, how do I kind of look to attack some of these stocks on the long side? And we hear every New Year's people on Twitter, 2022 going to be the year of the long. I'm going to learn long this year. And you know, they, they realize longing is hard. And then they stopped longing. And it's like a lot of people, I think picture longing as like the dumb money, which is, it's fine for me. Like that's great. Like, but just know that like, you know, I'm going to be there when you're, you're starting to fight. Like I'm going to recognize that and I'm going to take advantage of that, right? I do think the majority of longs are done money. You know, they are, you know, I think shorts are probably significantly more smarter just cause they realize all these stocks are shit and they stop, you know, already you have an edge on everyone who thinks that the FDA approval and they, you know, and all this news is actually true and not a scam because it is, but you know, I just take advantage of those times where that smart money quote unquote starts to, you know, act down. And, you know, really what I've made my trading career kind of based off of is just people fighting. It's the same thing with shorts, you know, you have a ton of longs who have long and high who are just trying to exit on this pop, on the stuff, on this, whatever. Then they just get insanely, insanely crushed and that's how you can just take advantage of the short side. It's really just taking advantage of that kind of crowd, I think, you know? Absolutely. So, so just, so Johnny, at this point, now you're in MIC, what is your kind of focus now? Like where, where are you focused? So my focus has shifted. I'm also still here. I just need, I need to send the text real quick, but I'm still here. So it shifted quite a bit. I think in the earlier days, I needed to go through those phases of prioritizing like a high wind percentage and low risk report trades just so I can get, you know, learn how to get my initial entries done really well, learn how to get into areas and to strength if you're shorting. But mostly just know that I can actually, you know, pull money from the market. But the problem with that was that it wasn't really scalable. Like every time I try to size up, there would be something that goes wrong. And I found that it was always just due to my, my average lose had been bigger than my average win. Yeah. So I really needed to find a way to, you know, to fix that. So after doing that for about, you know, one year, because it's not, it's not an easy switch. I just said to myself, okay, I need to make a plan with how I'm going to transition from being focused on like nail and bail plays to plays like, like beer. Pretty much. And I think there's definitely a time and place to nail and bail for broken day ones, especially. But I've tried to kind of narrow down what I trade to like a select few setups where I know for certainty over a long period of time, I can get consistently at least three R on the trade. And I think the biggest thing that kind of helped me with this transition and with sizing up in general is just completely switching the way that I think to where I fully accepted losing in every aspect before the trade and especially while I'm in the trade, while I have unrealized gains there. And not even to a point where I've logged myself to break even, you know? Like if I had, if I'm unrealized one R 1.5 R and the trade is still on, I'm fully accepting of that to just go back and stop me out for a loss. And the way that I really strengthened that was because it wasn't easy. Like I was, initially I was a proper focus trader. All I cared about was, you know, I had this image in my head of, I need to make X amount of money every day. And I've kind of switched that to whenever I think about trading and like anytime of the day, the only thing on my mind is like rare losing numbers or taking losses. So when I think about a trade that I've done or analyze it, the only thing on my mind at like any point is how much I'm gonna lose if I'm stopped out, if I'm wrong. And the more you kind of do that, the more it sort of strengthens in your pathways in your brain that associate, you know, these negative emotions that come along with losing and with giving back unrealized gains. But I think that aspect alone, you know, it helps mentally and but it wasn't enough. Like it wasn't enough, right? So I needed to figure out like what else needed to do. So the first thing was that I had to have my initial entries pretty much mastered. So I'm gonna enter a trade. Firstly, it needs to be one with like enough downside range, which at the time kind of is only shorting first red day or shorting day twos that have just had a massive move on day one. Because then I have like the downside range to be able to get the move and to be able to add. So I really just had a huge focus on getting my initial entries right. And then once we do get a confirmation move, so I take the initial entries sort of into strength. If it's a first red day, I won't short it if it pushes right and open until it drops below the VWAP. Because I don't know how hard it's gonna go. Like I don't wanna pick the top. And the majority of my size is gonna come after it goes red anyway. So I don't need to be in, I don't need to be trying to get the top. So what I did was I just waited for the top to be set. I waited for it to have that first pull. If it bounced, like I leave it alone until we get like the big VWAP crap, which is where, you know, that's at the first point that I'm really looking to enter. And that's where like I just switch on and just be in that complete mentality of how much am I gonna lose, where am I stopping out if I'm wrong. So like in doing that, I take my first entry into VWAP and I would risk one art on that trade. And before going into it, I've said to myself and I'll repeat it over and over and over again, like minus this amount, minus this amount, minus this amount. So I'm in a way I'm already accepting it and my brain is accepting it as a huge possibility that it might happen. If the trade stops me out, then I lose one art. And I don't care because at this point, I've traded my brain just continuously to prepare for this moment when I do lose. So I have no phone where to re-enter. I can just take the loss and if it sets up, I'll take the trade again. If it doesn't, well, then I'll just walk. But if it does work and I'm now in risking my one art and we do get that continuation move down to red grain, I have to just completely continuously repeat in my head the amount that I'm risking. So I don't think about the PNL because if I think about how much I'm up, I will take something off. I'll just do it. And it will be at a level where I shouldn't need to take it off. Have you ever thought about just taking, like just partial and then just like holding the rest like with trailing stuff? Because I know that helps a lot of people. Once I do get the second art. So at that point, it still hasn't confirmed like red grain but if it does slam through, I get the balance and I get that art. Like at that point, I will allow my stop. Pretty much, yeah, like I do travel it with every single that I do. I'll have a separate stop that I'll put it there and that's kind of like the area where it shouldn't reach. So for like this specific ad, if it reaches here, then my thesis isn't validated for having like that ad down here. So as I'm like entering stop, like entering and adding to the winner, I kind of just have multiple stops out there still while risking like the same amount and yeah, I've only just started doing that where I'll take out like, I'll limit order out like 2% of my size. So my brain thinks that I'm like, I'm covering like a decent portion and like I'm locking something in but I'm still able to get like the majority of the move with like a big amount of my size but just as it's like going down as it's continuing, I'm just limit ordering out like 2%, 2%, 5%, paying myself and like I have to like limit order or the commissions will just add up like crazy. But the main thing that like really just helped me to improve was fully accepting losses and fully accepting the fact that I can give back all my unrealized gains. But like you need to be at a point where you're confident in your system and you're confident that if you do take three losses in a row, five losses in a row you can make them, you can be profitable in two trades. And like for me, that was just journaling my trades. I actually did it like your friend, Harry, like Jack how love journals his ones. Cause I would rather do that than trade it to you. Like I like them putting them manually just cause in my head it's kind of like going through the trade again and then like visualizing it all. But the main thing is that you get to see your average win and average loss over, you know at least, I'd say at least nine months just so you can experience like all the market cycle shifts. But once you know that, that was the big design factor that made me okay with losing multiple times in a row because I know that, you know I can be profitable in two trades. Yeah, no, I think. Sorry, I have a question actually. How did you adjust yourself from the way you were trading before would like trying to trade massive size to like what you're trading now? Cause obviously back then you were shorting too. So like how did you adjust that? Cause that's gotta be kind of a tough adjustment. Yeah, well that I actually over the course of probably a year, I attempted to size up 11 times. And each time that I, it was like, I was cursed or something like everything would just break pre market high of day or I'd get like a VWO confirmation and then I would just have like a huge stuff work that would like top tick me and I'd end up giving back like a three or four days worth of gains. And yeah, it was just insane. And like I remember one point cause I've been consistent for six months and it's like, okay, like now's the time to size up and then I size up and then nothing works. And I remember missing bow and I'm like, like I just lost like 10 times in a row. And then he's like, how do you lose 10 times in a row? It's such a day. I don't know what just happened. I was round about like the seventh time that I size up and I lost. That's when like I reached out to Harry and I'm like, dude, like I just keep giving back everything that I make, like I need help. And then Harry did help me. Yeah, what did I say? I can't remember. Like you sent some paragraph ended off with like you saying like, yeah, I can tell that you already knew that it's like, you know what to do. And I was like, yeah, like I just size down again. Just, well, I mean, I tend to the size up four more times until like finally, like it really was just that whenever I'd enter, if I did size up it would always be me scaling a range. So the actual amount that I'm gonna lose was unknown. Like I knew that I'd lose around this amount but I was kind of always hoping that it wouldn't get there. Like I'm scaling these lines. I'm like, please don't get to my final order. Like, oh, I should have hit me. And then like, oh shit. Please don't hit me. I've been there. Yeah. I just want to add, because like we are coming up on the end of the kind of like 30, 45 minute mark or whatever. And I just want to add like a couple of things that I think could help you. And so basically at the start of every trading day I always pay attention to the range of a thicker, right? So if the high is $5 and the low is $4 you don't want to be shorting near four bucks, right? You know, you want to be shorting near and sometimes we can see a range right to the downside where $4 breaks with authority and then we go to three or whatever, right? But for the most part as a general rule you don't really want to be shorting four bucks. And so I've always kind of pictured it as like where are the areas of like liquidity, right? Where we're going to have a lot of liquidity. So the whole thing to me has always been a liquidity gain. And so let's say the high is $5, the low is $4 and you know, where's the first kind of area of liquidity going to be? Well, VWAP let's say is that $4.50 that's going to be the first area of liquidity, right? Every single long trader is going to be chasing for that VWAP reclaim thinking we're going to the moon we're going, let's go. That would probably be where I would want to put some starter size on short because I just know that this is just liquidity game. They're going to be looking to kind of sell shares a bit above VWAP. The next area above that is going to be high a day. Again, that is another big, big liquidity area because every single long trader is chasing hoping for that range break higher, hoping that we can break out of that kind of $5 and $4 kind of range and look to move higher, right? And so I mean, the areas if I was shorting would be that kind of VWAP reclaim in around there. And I would look to take some small around high a day and then add, add, add when we confirm like stuff at high a day. And I mean, just because like the majority of the small cap don't break out of that $5 and $4 range, right? They're always stuck there. They're always stuck there. So it kind of becomes a game of averaging, right? Where you just want to have a high enough average that you can survive the top of that range and stop out if necessary. But you just want to kind of survive the top of that range so that when we do break lower and we do break to the downside, you have a great average. You don't need to worry about these kind of pops all the way down. And if you want to nail and bail it or recycle all the way down, you know, go ahead. You still have a decent enough average from the top. But I mean, you want to have meaningful entries. I think that is the most important part, right? If you're just, you know, adding into a pop because the stock popped, well, then you're going to end up getting fucked, right? Because it's not really a meaningful entry. Yeah, the stock popped, but it wasn't too like a meaningful area or a meaningful place with resistance on the chart, right? But I mean, if you look at what all these small caps do every single day, it's really just the liquidity game where they'll move the stock a bit above VWAP because they know every single long trader is like, wow, that's bullish. Wow, that's amazing. You know, if I was a market maker, I'd be selling shares right above VWAP because that's where all these longs are looking to chase. They're like, man, bullish, bullish, bullish. And then they get stuffed on and then the stock tank's lower, right? Same thing with high at A. Everyone's like, wow, we broke high at A. This is going to the moon, going to the moon, going to the moon. Right? If I'm a market maker, I'm selling shares, selling shares, selling shares, selling shares, tank it. Oh, well, that's to you, right? It's just really areas where you can take advantage of uneducated long chasers as a short. That can really make you a lot of money. Now, obviously, if we have broke high at A and we're supporting and we're kind of propping all the way up and we're propping, propping, propping, and then we get that move higher, well, then that thesis is wrong. But when we snap high at A or we snap VWAP and we're just kind of stalling and holding it around there, you know, that's probably an area where people are, you know, bigger players or institutions or whatever market makers are looking to sell shares. So, I mean, if I were you, that's what I would be focusing on, those kind of liquidity areas where people are looking to sell shares, institutions are looking to sell shares, bigger players are looking to sell shares and just take advantage and ride along with them, right? Yeah, I like that. Like, yeah, for broken day ones, that usually is like where I would be entering. Like, in a way, I kind of don't really want to see it get above VWAP if it is really deviated from there. So, I kind of like, I will play it differently to where I want to get like the majority of my size as close to VWAP as possible, just so I can get like really good risk reward. And then I'll have a stop, maybe two cents above VWAP for half my size and then a second stop at the closest line to VWAP from the upside, because you see all these moves that happen, we'll stuff VWAP and then it will reject almost immediately. And we won't, like if I was scaling it, then I wouldn't be able to get full size in there. You know, I might get like 25% on. So, it's kind of just come to this point where I have done that and like, like it has kind of been one-to-one risk reward, which is just, for me, it's kind of a bit too stressful of a way to trade. So, it's really just been about, you know, picking those liquidity areas pre-market and really, really thinking about like which one should it not reach? Because of course, you know, we don't want it to reach pre-market high a day, but at the same time, a lot of them don't even make it near it. So, it's really just, you know, if it is super deviated from VWAP at the open, then I'll look to enter as close to VWAP as possible. But if it's, you know, opening up really close to VWAP, you know, maybe like 10, 15 cents away, that's when I'll take an entry at a mid to outer line, risking around the outer line, depending on, yeah, like the liquidity in the pre-market. I like that, no, I like that you now have like a process and I think that a lot of guys are gonna listen to this episode and like relate, they're gonna say like, I had the same issue, I oversize, I fucked up early. So, and now you've found like something that works for you, you have a process, you can articulate it. And I think that's key. I think everyone should be able to articulate their process. And I like that you now have confidence in your setups and you can kind of banter and have conversation with other traders who do the same. And like, you know what you're doing. So it's cool to watch you progress and would love to, you know, have you back on in the future too and kind of keep going. Cause like, I like noting your progress, like slowly over and over. So I really appreciate it. I know we are getting there the open here. So we're gonna wrap it up. But dude, thank you so much for coming on. This was awesome. I really hope that a lot of new guys kind of take this into account that like you are not alone. If you've made some like mistakes, you know, there's always a path to kind of like redemption. So thank you again, man. We will do this again sometime. Perfect. Of course, dude, of course. All right boys.