 كنت تبقى that there are some means we can take that are outside of the system that we as Muslims can take. From that, a lot of people ask the question is protesting from the means, is protesting in an non-Muslim country? Is it from the means that are permissible for us to undertake to try and impact some kind of change? Okay, before we place a ruling on the issue of مرهرات protesting, the scholars they say I am to be precise on something. يجب أن تقوم بإضافة تصوير على شيء يجب أن تكون لديه أفضل تصوير منه لذلك هناك مقاومات التي تبدو بشكل كبير لأيضة مضاحات في اللغة العربية أو في اللغة الإنجليسية التي هي ما يسمى سطين أو سيطين حسنا ماذا؟ لذا سيطين مثلاً في اللغة العربية they call it at Sarmat it basically means a group of people come together they sit somewhere they said we're not going to move until this disease is done and strikes we see a lot in the uk especially in london bus strikes happen or hunger strikes or whatever all of these are what we're talking about okay so we mean that by the concept of demonstration and that protest and we mean all of that the مضاحات are types so if we don't mention the types of مضاحات then it we can't give one blank ruling for all of them okay that makes sense that's why i feel like many people who spoke about it whether it be in the arabic language or whether it be in english language or even many people written books on it whether it be شيوخ and مشايخ or a lot of them person in my personal opinion they didn't deal with the issue in a very scholastic scholarly method a lot of them and the reason for that being they didn't mention the اقصام المضاحات the types of مضاحات there is and then each one given it it's suitable ruling they gave a complete ruling for different types and then it's always a type that doesn't really fall under that reasoning so the types of مضاحات are the following the first one is مضاحات which is with the intention and the aim of changing the system and that happens in free forms the first one which is trying to change the system or trying to you know upthrow the system and it happens in three different ways it's either in a Muslim country where that Muslim country doesn't allow protesting the second one is it's trying to change a system where it's under a Muslim power under Muslims a Muslim leader but it doesn't prevent people from doing مضاحات the Muslim leader allows protesting he allows it and the third one is under a non-Muslim country so it's not a Muslim country the second type is مضاحات I'm a protesting that is done with the aim and the objective of changing a situation from the situation that are there you're not trying to put the system down you're not trying to drop the government or anything or upthrow the government the aim here is just تغييرو حال you just want a situation to be changed from the situation out there or you want to take a position in something the third form which is the last is that the aim for this protest is just to bring to the government to their attention a particular issue like global warming or something like that يعني bring this situation to the world those are the three forms so the scholars they gave a ruling on مضاحات they said it's not allowed it's not permissible they got it from the quran and the sunnah but they had to explain their reason for why it's حرام and there's five points which they took the first point is that it's بأنها بدعة المحدث they said it's newly invented معها the second reason is because بأنها من التشبه بالكفار it's imitating the non-muslims the third reason they gave is that they said this is من وسائل الإنكار a means of rejecting يعني something and the means of rejecting something has to be taken from the quran and the sunnah the fourth one is بأنها من الخروج على ولي الأمر it's going against the muslim leader and the fifth reason the مضاحرات that they said is not allowed is because there is in it things that are in opposition to the quran and the sunnah وأنها يترتب عليها مفاسد and there are harm and problems that come from the مضاحرات now let me go through each reasoning that the scholars gave not all of them are valid the first one which is it's a newly invented معها to say that something is newly invented it means يعني to say something is newly invented and it's an innovation it means that this person is attributing this to the religion so there are a group of people who basically do believe that مضاحرات is عبادة an act of worship these people this applies on them it's an innovation was there evidence for it and they won't be able to bring bring any evidence for it because it's a newly invented معها it's an innovation and we will then read حديث من عمل العمل ليس علي أمرنا فهو ورد but there's a party of people who say no for us it's not an act of worship it's actually an عادة a norm and a norm we can't refer to it as a bid'a because it's outside the realm of عبادة it can only be considered an act of عادة or a معاملة to be considered it to be innovation the person has to have done it for what يقصد بها التقرب والتعبودي لله so what we understand is that is it just translate that in English that the person is trying to get closer to Allah by this action or they are trying to worship Allah through it okay so if a norms or a custom an معاملة is done to get closer to Allah by it and you're doing it to worship Allah then it becomes an innovation if it's not legislated so a man says I'm not going to marry a woman and I'm going to get closer to Allah by that the prophet said it's a bid'a I mean he could leave the woman if he wants to he doesn't have to marry if he doesn't want to but to say I'm going to get closer to Allah by not getting married to any woman it's an innovation even though originally it's not it's a معاملة or it's an عادة or it's a معاملة which the person could just do if they wanted to but now that they've chosen to get closer to Allah by it becomes an innovation okay so a group of people will say I am doing the مضاهرات and my aim and objective is not to get closer to Allah by it I'm not worshiping Allah with this action and I just it's a means it's just a means for me so we'll come to that one the second reason that some scholars bring forward by saying that it's imitating the non-Muslims again it's also very weak argument the reason is because what is a ضابط for تشبخ and we kind of mentioned that before what's the ضابط for تشبخ يعني what is تشبخ of the كفار تشبخه بالكفار شيخ الإسلام تيميا has a kitab one of the strongest books that's written in this field of تشبخ there are many books written on it but one of the greatest books is the كتاب اقتضاء صلاة المستقيم مخالفة أصحاب الجهيم by ابن تيميا ابن تيميا clearly and categorically I know Shah Tibi another great scholar has mentioned that the real I'm at a concrete point for تشبخ is that this is an action لا يفعله إلا الكفار only the non-Muslims do this يعني it's خاص for the كفار uniquely known for them and if it's something that the people all do out of norms this is not a تشبخ even if the non-Muslims do it it has to be something uniquely known for them and rather we see this concept of مضاهرات actually present at the early times of الإسلام for example أثمان العفان رضي الله عنه when the people went against أثمان and they uproised against أثمان رضي الله عنه and they took him down الخليفة الراشد أثمان العفان that was demonstration and then it turned into violence also we have the issue of عبد الحماري بن العشعة when he went against الحجادي بن يوسفة الثقافي that was مضاهرات and it was happening at that time so it's saying it's an thing done by the the non-Muslims I mean it's very far-fetched and also this concept of rejecting oppression and pushing away oppression and it's something which human beings are generally used to doing that whatever means they take is different but people don't like to be oppressed and they don't like to be wronged so again the concept of it being a تشبه بالكفار is also not a strong argument now we are left with a point which is that it's going against an oppressive Muslim leader and that's again not applying to the land of the non-Muslims correct because if it's oppressive the Muslim leader is one of two situations he's either a rightful يعني he's a righteous noble just leader he's a just leader of course people wouldn't generally want to go up uprise against that one except dimwitted ignorant people the second one is that he's an oppressive leader and this we have clear cut evidences that state that we can't go against the oppressive Muslim leader which the Prophet ﷺ had mentioned عليه الصلاة والسلام patience endurance and the three things that we do for that Muslim oppressive leader is to make dua'a for Allah to guide him that's clear evidences for that we go and we give him نصيحة we advise him and the third one is a suburb patience on what he's doing to the Muslims but that doesn't apply to non-Muslim countries so we now come to the non-Muslim country okay the fourth one is that it's a means of rejecting so وسائل الإنكار their argument is حبيبي أخي I'm rejecting falsehood now you might ask yourself isn't that and if you're rejecting falsehood is that not innovation again or the one the first one that we mentioned what's the difference between the two the difference between it is وسيلة means can lead to good and it can also lead to bad okay whereas bid'a only leads to bad because it's not something also the وسيلة the means a person can take there are specific evidences that come for it whereas the bid'a of course is without evidences also means can enter into عبادات معاملات عادات I mean acts of worship people's interactions and it can also enter people's norms and customs a bid'a only enters acts of worship so they say it's وسيلة for me then which is the fourth reason it's a وسيلة so now what we have to do is we have to divide the وسيلة means into two there's a وسيلة known as وسيلة محضة it's pure means and we have to do this in order to understand the whole discussion and the whole dialogue the وسيلة محضة it's pure وسيلة يعني it's pure وسيلة the وسيلة which is محضة is it's a the person intends this action I mean he intends this means in order to reach something but this means cannot be detached from the means it's a pure means it's a means that's connected to the objective like walking to the message for example if someone walks he doesn't get rewarded for it by itself right okay but the minute he walks to the message the reward is connected to the yeah it's connected to he walks to a a brothel the punishment is on him so the walking it's a pure means meaning it's purely connected to the the aim and objective there's another one which is called وسيلة سبية means which by itself can stand like وضو for example وضو whether you're doing it for صلاة or not just by doing وضو itself is a reward okay yeah by itself it's it's a means that can stand by itself okay that's important that we we understand it another point that I want us to understand is that there is a قاعدة for us which is called الوسائل لحكام المقاصد the means takes the ruling of these objectives so if the objective is واجب the means becomes واجب as long as that means is not prohibited pay attention to that if for example going to the message for the men is واجب right so you know the only way you can go to the message is by driving driving becomes obligatory I see the means takes the ruling of the objective as long as that means is not حرام if you take a means which is حرام then it's not permissible the means has to be permitted allowed okay there's a قاعدة شيطانية that some people use which is اللغاية تتبرر الوسيلة which is nothing to do with Islam it's a قاعدة شيطانية which means the goal justifies the means the goal justifies the means and when you look at the مضاهرة today that we see that's the قاعدة that is built upon the goals justify the means so the means here can be corrupt so this قاعدة شيطانية which is اللغاية تتبرر الوسيلة has nothing to do with Islam that the goal justifies the means and if a person wants to example do something which is evil and something good if he takes an evil means for it's no problem an example is for example I steal 10 dirhams from you but I give 9 in صدقاء and I just take one so يعني how many sins do I get one right but I've given 9 صدقاء we're hacking that the person things like that this is اللغاية تتبرر الوسيلة just because you're trying to achieve a goal doesn't mean the means justifies it okay and this is what demonstration falls under now I need to speak about something very important which is is means in دعوة توقيفية or is it اجتهادية and I think it's very important and this is why what I'm trying to get to يعني in order to reject falsehood which is a means of دعوة is it توقيفية or is it اجتهادية what does it mean is it does it have to be taken from the Quran and the Sunnah or can it be independent reasoning there are also three times that people generally try to use with the concept of وسيلة means they use the word وسائد and the issue of دراعي and the issue of مصلحة before I answer that question I have to explain those three okay دراعي for example is microphones they say for example if you say that the means has to be sanctioned by the شارع اللعظي وجلا they say microphones and they say for example radios and you know mobile phones and things that we use for خير for دعوة for دعوة we say that's not وسيلة that's وسائد it just projects what's there it doesn't interfere with the message itself okay okay and there's also something called دراعي which is a term that's also used similar to وسائل دراعي اعا things that will always lead to evil okay and there's a third term which is مصلحة المرسلة whether مصلحة المرسلة exists or not I'm not going to be speaking about that there so yeah I've already explained my position on مصلحة مرسلة the مصالحة three types مصالح معتبرة مصالح ملغات المصالح مرسلة and the شريعة does only مصلحة معتبرة المصلحة المرسلة اما مصلحة مرسلة we don't believe that and anyone who claims there is مصلحة مرسلة anyone who claims it will say either this مصلحة was معتبرة the شريعة already stated and you didn't know about it or it's ملغات نشريعة this misty what's the best translation for it in English it's it's benefits that came about after okay so even if we do say that مصلحة مرسلة exists just so we get the discussion flowing مصلحة مرسلة means it's a means that will lead to good that's why it's called مصلحة مرسلة so it's a means that will lead to good when we look at the means that it's taken from protesting it's not it doesn't lead to good it leads to evil it's actually closer to being درائع than مصلحة مرسلة it's a what it's a دريعة meaning دريعة is like for example a man touching a woman which will lead to what زينا okay مضاهرات leads to evil which is going to bring us to this point which is the last and final point which is the harms that are in protest in protesting protesting first of all goes against the دعوة of the prophets which work towards what we mentioned before changing the people يعني from the bottom upwards protesting is from the top to the bottom which we will get fighting against it goes against the دعوة of the prophets and the prophets the prophets started with the people they go to the leaders first second thing that it has is protest is إضعافوا أصلوا الولاي والبراع it corrupts the concept of الولاي والبراع the third one is people lose their lives and bloodsheds and a lot of the protest that happened four people lose their honors and people rob and steal يعني people's belongings and people black lives matter for example Muslim people suffered more from it because they started in Minneapolis people own shops were losing their product and everything اختلال الأمن it destroys safety it also it disrupts the people's يعني day to day يعني roads get blocked off people can't go to work people are stressed what route am I going to take also opens the door for the criminals فتحوا المجالي المفسدين من المجنوين والمخربين قرأت people are the اختلاط الرجالي بالنسة men and women are going to remix it's also أصد عن ذكر الله وعن الصلاه it prevents the people from remembering الله تعالى and the salah and the people missed the salah from this also this is opportunity I know brothers who said يا أمي أقل ذا I'll link I'll go there because I want to get her number تضيع الأوقات والأموال فيما لا خير فيه people wasted their time and their money and things that don't have no benefit sometimes also the way to go about things is either نصيحة نخنده you advise a person or make dua'a for Allah to guide him or whatever or be patient another problem that we see it is رفع شعرات جاهلية people are pulling up يعني the symbols they are not Islamic يعني يعني sometimes concept يعني دا أشركيات and كفريات when you look at the billboards also finally it's a way of actually affirming the concept of democracy and secular liberal states democracy can't exist if there's no demonstration the whole concept of democracy is what the people the power is in the hands of the people it's giving the people the word democracy it means the people the power is in the hands of the people the people choose so it goes against analyze the one who chooses what can be or can't be finally مضاهرات is about what do the majority think that's when the government starts looking if a minority is screaming they don't care and the majority always going to choose what is corrupt and not which is good so the fifth reason is what the real strongest point is شاهد which is the final one are the first four are not strong okay especially in a non-Muslim country the strongest reason for مضاهرات is I'm talking about non-Muslim country for the Muslim country the issue of خروج is obviously there that's there but the non-Muslim country I'm talking about the non-Muslim country the strongest way to speak against democracy as a protest and demonstration is to say بأن لا تخلو من مخالفات وأن يترتبوا عليها مفاصيل and I want to go into this you've mentioned a lot of information and I want to break it down I want to go into it so at first you mentioned that there are actually three types of protests there is one to overthrow the government and that breaks down into three there's one in the Muslim country with a Muslim leader who doesn't allow protests and then there's one in the Muslim leader with a Muslim country who does allow protests and then you've got the non-Muslim country with a non-Muslim leader the second type of protest is when you're not trying to overthrow a ruler but you're trying to change one of his laws for example and the third type is you're not trying to change anything but you're just trying to raise awareness for a particular issue I want to go back and really apply some of these five reasons why protests are خرام and see where they fit into this the first one you have a Muslim country with a Muslim leader who is not allowing you to protest obviously the reason why this is not permissible is because of خروج agreed it's a Muslim country and it's not allowing you to do it yeah what if it's a Muslim leader in a Muslim country and he is allowing protests does this still take the win of خروج or not yeah it does it does it goes on the خروج even if the Muslim leader allows it the reason is because شكرا عثيمين pointed this out it's very important he says that the Muslim leader generally does it because of pressure from outside the non-Muslim country is saying you're you're you're not a a democratical state you're not governed by democracy so to please them he says to the people who are uprights but he's really finding it is a problem okay and so the Muslims they were already commanded way before anybody you know when we when we say we don't go against the leader we're not doing it because of him we're doing it because Allah's messenger told us this so yes it's not allowed for us to go okay now we come to the non-Muslim countries and this is where we can talk about three different things overthrowing a non-Muslim ruler using a protest to overthrow a non-Muslim government in a non-Muslim country out of the five that you mentioned the reasons for protesting not being permissible which one applies here the last one okay this applies to all three overthrowing a non-Muslim ruler whether you're trying to change a non-legislation or whether you're trying to raise awareness you're saying protesting is always going to fail because of this last one the last one is for everywhere okay here's a question then you've just connected things to protesting like freemixing like missing the soloat you've connected these things to protesting i'm saying what if there's a protest this is not a ruling for protesting in of itself you have a protest that takes space between virginal lord no solies being missed it is segregated just brothers come to protest no one else is this permissible or not if my reasoning for saying that there's an opposition in it was only that reason there's many reasons okay go on let's there's no there's no robbing the stores there's no breaking down there's no it's a peaceful protest okay what's wrong with that it's first of all it's first of all it prevents the people from the remembrance of Allah because people chant people chant each one let me go through okay let it go through each one you want to challenge each one or you want to go through to the end and then i'll start bringing my challenges okay let me mention the biggest reasons okay bring the biggest the first one is you're affirming like one of the strongest branches of democracy democracy stands on protest this is a democratical system proper if people don't يعني demonstrate and people don't vote and people democracy crumbles this is what democracy is about voting demonstration protesting all these things are the branches usul that democracy stands on so by not doing these things by not voting by not people will destroy democracy democracy you're not going to destroy democracy in a non-muslim land where you're a very minute percentage the Muslims are very small percentage by you not protesting you haven't destroyed democracy all you've done is bring more harm on to yourself because the government have said if you want us to change something this is the way you do it and guess what we've done we've sat at home we haven't changed anything i've already told you before الله says يعيي لدينا عمل إسبيره وصابيره ورابطه والتقل على عليكم تفلحون فلاح success we're already being told it and i agree that we should do that you know what you mentioned for the first two hours i'm not gonna i'm not gonna take a path i know it's corrupt يعني the means i just told you right now what's happening here this means that i'm taking right now or this يعني it's got مفاسد connected to it اصد عن ذكر الله عن الصلاة اختلاط الرجال بالنسة i just said a protest there's no free mixing i want to get the issue of protesting itself in and over itself oh no no no that's my point that's my point you see in the city some things in and within itself it hasn't got a ruling because demonstration itself غير منطبط okay it's all over the place i'll give you an example traveling right now traveling was the reason why we we can have رخصة why can we fast in the matavra مضى and when we're traveling this because the professor said because the fasting itself sorry because it's the traveling itself you can't say مشقه you can't say means يعني hardship because hardship is غير منطبط it's not something you can a guy can say look i traveled and i never felt like i traveled like i was sleeping i was picking up you know by my bed here's an option to carry on fasting because he hasn't felt that hardship no pay attention yeah a person's a traveler yeah traveling traveling what's the reason why traveling you can break your fast you're saying it's not a hardship you don't know why why can a person who's traveling break their fast what's the إله what's the إله what's the reason what is it for traveling itself you're saying so here it's speaking very in a slowly perspective a person is a traveler a person is a traveler and they are traveling you said that person he can break his fast he doesn't have to fast there is an option he can combine between the prayers right correct can shorten the prayers yeah this رخسة was he given it why was he given it to him why he was given because he's traveling and with traveling there is hardship so my point is that the issue of hardship the rule the reason it cannot be hardship the reason why rule the hardship cannot be the reasoning why is because someone who's traveling that reason might be lifted from them he might say I travel if it's a general principle and most people who travel do feel hardship but whatever if he doesn't feel it then he has a choice to carry on fasting no but it's not choice but he he's that option why is it given to him he's not even gone through any hardship okay I see you it's what brother can say I was sleeping I was picking up I'm a heavy sleeper my family just threw me into the car while sleeping I was tired while sleeping then I went on the private jet that my family I see your point we got to the option is given to him not because of hardship another guy goes I work I work in the I work in the I work in the furnace I make bread يعني رمضان فينا هالي رمضان I'm burning we say yeah no problem you still have to fast yeah I see I see the reason is because this issue of مشاقر مشاقر is غير من بابت مشاقر mean غير من بابت It's something that cannot be We can't narrow it down مضاهرات is like that So the reasoning for it comes from outside Hardship is something intangible because some person might it's subjective I'm feeling hardship I get it I get it but how is protest in subjective it does I tell you the situation changes from one situation to another situation it can be striking it could be non-striking in it could be what can't be stopped from protest is that it's not something in and within itself it's always أن يحتى المأثرة من الس NBC الس NBC لهم مفاصد لها على كاذك درأ المفاصد مقدم على جلبل المصالح تفتح هالدعم ترأي حقا تخبرون أن إهتم لتمره تفتح هالدعم جاءنا مش痴 all these harms أنت لديك الآمن which is strong now الذي يتكون على أي وجه إذا كانت الآن ، هذه الثلاثة الثلاثة الثلاثة التي قمت بها ، لا they're still there but a greater harm is outstanding now. Like for example the government said. But before we get there you're saying that these harms can never go away. Not all of them. Some of them can be removed. Because of the democracy issue. You can remove one or two or three out of the places. I'm saying to you in the totality I only mentioned 13. I'm sure if we sit down and we think more about it. We can be hundreds of reasons why مضحرات is not allowed. Hundreds wouldn't be a problem. But what the question is is that some of them are present. Some of them are not present. Sometimes it's here. Sometimes it's there. The point I'm trying to say to you. You can't deny. I can. This is the real. I've sift through the arguments. And I'm saying this is the strongest one. Which is I've yet to hear about a protest that people went. That things didn't go wrong. Who's controlling? Who are the people going to listen to? There's no ادارة or organization. People know it. There's like a weak argument. Because you're saying the protests in and of themselves. I can't say that's wrong. It's because of everything connected to it. Like I just feel like. Can you have a protest with none of these things connected to it? In which case you'd have to say it's مضحر. It's permissible. Yeah. But I'm saying a person can give you an ideal situation of مضحرات. But I said that's in the mind of the person. Yeah. But that means that you can't place a ruling on the protesting. You place a ruling on free mixing. You place a ruling on missing yourself. You place. You can place rulings on these things. Which are سفات. Which are سفات. Which are سفات. Which are سفات. And you can have an ideal situation. Okay. Give me. Give me a situation. I'm not saying it happened. But if someone compare you. If people wasted their time. Not necessarily. Because you're doing for مصرحة. You're trying to change. Homosexuality has been taught in schools for example. That's a good thing. Okay. Okay. People do, they get from these protests. Do this. What do you mean a criminals come? And always try to. I mean even black lives matter. If you look at the protest that was going on. Lot of people cry and screen. I've been following these things. You see. A lot of people were screaming. لا تخلق بعض الناس يجعلنا محاولة نحن نحاول ، نحن نحاول مجدداً شايد ، أنت في الوصول ، كيف يمكنك أن تساعد الناس في محاولة؟ كيف؟ Where did you get this from? الناس يجب أن يكونوا كيف تفعل؟ يجب أن تكونوا محاولة يجب أن يكونون الناس who come along أنا أقول لا ، لا أنا لا أقول أيضاً يمكن أن يكون ، يعني يمكن أن يحدث أنه لا يوجد محاولة لكن أخر محاولة أخر محاولة are always there أنت تخلقني في لندن أنت ستكون لديك محاولة ومحاولة ومحاولة ومحاولة are not remixing لا أعلم كيف ستحدث لا أعلم حسنًا ، ما about leaving of what the Sharia actually did sanction for us مثل النصيحة والدعاء والصباح؟ يمكنك أن تفعل ذلك أيضاً يمكنك أن تفعل ذلك يمكنك أن تفعل ذلك أخر but the Sharia did not choose that ما عن اختلاله الأمري؟ ما عن الساعدة تذهب قليلاً الناس يجب أن يتفعل now يجب أن يخلق again it goes back to a peaceful protest instead of a violent protest أذكرت سبحان الله أن أرى ما حدثت في إيجبت عندما تصدر المحاولة الناس كانوا محاولة ومحاولة كانوا محاولة ومحاولة من الناس ولكن هناك محاولة like Gandhi when he protested against the British أذكرت أنك تسألت كل من who was there who felt some people might have got bullied أذكرت أنك تسألت but I know it doesn't detach itself from it أرى 99.9% of cases where women feel like they got touched by somebody from behind or somebody pushed her over أو يعني أخرنا في بيوتكون ولا تبررجنة تبرجل جاهيلية الأولى وقلنا سرات they can let them stay at home like the men protest I'm saying there is a way that we can say a protest is خلال it's not like alcohol but it's not like we can say this why would you tell the sisters to stay at home if you need their numbers in the first place but you need their numbers right for the whole point of the demonstration is the numbers so if you tell the sisters to stay at home and they're the majority by the way they're the most عاشا يجي أشياء أدي see my point it's a demonstration the best argument for it is not that it's شبو بالكفار، لا أعتقد أنه ليس قوية جيدة، يجب أن تقول أنه محرم بأنها لا تخلوم من مخالفة، أن هناك مجموعة أخرى، مجموعة التي ستكون محرمة في ذلك البيت. أخبرني أنه مجموعة التي ستكون مخالفة في ذلك البيت؟ أخبرني أنه مخالفة دعوة الانبياء، يعني أنه يدفع بشكل جيدًا، خلال دعوة النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم، our Prophet محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم، he's Da'a stood up on a moth على إصلاح الرعيتي التي هي طريق طبيعي، starting from the people and making your way up. Yeah, you can do that as well. I'm saying you can do that but also we can protest, you have to show me it's impermissible to protest. No, you can't do that. That's the sense that protest does go against the way that the Prophet ﷺ was. For example, the protest, what is it doing? It's speaking to the leader. Fix this or this probably won't be fixed. That's what you're trying to say. Non-Muslim leader, we're talking about non-Muslim. Yeah, whatever leader it is. You're speaking to a leader and you're requesting that leader to rectify the situation and you're saying it will trickle down. Yeah. I'm saying to you that the people, okay, the people generally speaking, okay, this is a general statement. They should believe that the rectification comes from them, not the leader. The leader is just, he could be sitting in that seat and the people could read it. But this is just an action they're taking. The IDA of the Prophet ﷺ and the companions at the time was not to protest. That was their custom, that was their norm. In the 21st century, we live in non-Muslim lands where protesting does raise awareness. I'll quote you the civil rights movement, for example, in America. An entire nation, an entire legislation was changed because it started from protesting. We might not agree with the feminism movement, but they ultimately did make progress through protesting. These are ways that people change. You can't sit here and tell me that just because the Prophet ﷺ didn't take this means. The Ibadah is not connected to protesting in of itself. The Ibadah is connected to making better laws for the Muslims in the UK. This is just a means, just like me driving to the masjid. That's not an Ibadah within itself. It's just a means to get to the masjid. Again, I told you before, it is strengthening the pillars of democracy. This is allowing something we wish for it to go. You're strengthening it, you're empowering it, you're endorsing it by doing that. I don't want you to always try to push the example away because the point is that one example may apply on a situation and not on another situation or another situation, but what there is always a problem in demonstration. That's what my point is. The poet, he said, صاحب المراقي, he said Every situation, there is always going to be a مفسر that present in demonstration. One or the other. Which is going to be. All that which you're mentioning to me that there won't be this problem I'll make sure the men and women don't remix it. It's all hypothetical. It's all in your mind. But that's how فق is. But we need to work with the worker that we see and what's happened in the past. We've not yet seen a process where there's no remix. We've not yet seen that. It doesn't mean we can't see one in the future. فق is based on theoretical rulings. I'm saying to you all of these. My first, I didn't mention one. I said, for example, فتح المجال المفسدين من المجرمين والمخريبين. افتح المجرمين for corrupt people. كريمين. They take this. They use this opportunity. They like that numbers in order to commit a crime because they can hide in the people. So they loot. They do things. And this is every single protest I've looked at. I've always seen that which I could say حرام, حرام, حرام. Let's not go too far back. Let's look at the last protest that took place that we will know about. In a non-Muslim country. Yeah, in a Western country. Go on. The protest for the Black Lives Matter. Okay. It started in Minnesota. If people were doing it a whole entire police station got burned down. Shops were looted. People's shops were and Muslim people's shops were looted. They can't stop it now. It's out of hand. Yeah. Go on YouTube and watch it. People are begging. Please do not hijack. What we're trying to represent here within that some people put a spin to it and they started using that protest for some other people that they remembered and things like that. What my point is is that protest once it happens you can't stop it. It was through protest that أثمار الله and it was killed. You know what I mean? Like that's how it started. People protested around his house sieged the sword was sheathed and it was killed. Just I agree that protest in the past because once it starts once it starts police have to come Why do you please come if there's no say if there's safety Why do they have to bring you know their shield and protect why is fired always why throwing things at the police people lose their composure. So protest say it doesn't have مفاصد شرعي إسلاميك مفاصد this is all I'm trying to draw home to you that this last final reason of being of their being شرعي حام it's high اختلال الأمني safety you think at the beginning okay I've got this under control we've got people you can't promise because people are more than you and you don't have a soldier to pin the people down and take them to the corner and drag them out of the play of the machine you don't have that you're just all assumption but just because the likeliness is high does that mean that we can say this is خلال Yeah we base things on غالبتوضان Okay but watching watching TV for example أسل of watching TV is it permissible you can watch a nature documentary on TV is that خلال Which one first a nature documentary on TV for example is that خلال from the time of Yeah is خلال No I'm saying wasting your time is خلال Okay but let's just say you're pondering over the creation of Allah ما شاء الله قمي الله رودي go outside So there's but there's nothing more when I say you there's health problems and you want to stay inside No I'm just saying to learn ادنى درولة حكم له ادنى درولة حكم له rare situations don't have a ruling giving me an like obscure random my new situation and then trying to make me say yes to something very big I'm saying to you we've not we've got demonstration killing massacring you know the civil rights movement look at the look at what happened how many people died how many people were killed were murdered with that being said all I'm trying to say here is I want people to listen to it to understand I'm saying that protest is خلال because of these these methods which are inevitably going to come unless someone presents like a complete hypothetical now which has never happened in the past talking about Muslim brothers coming with a small group and no sisters there and it's between the time of ذورا عصر so no salawata mist and et cetera et cetera et cetera and I don't think anyone should try to argue and say protesting does not have any مفاصد ولاية ترتبو عليها مفاصد No that's just far-fetched and I think it's not been fair Okay I think a valid argument Yeah I'm going to comment that now so this is this is the next thing that people say then now if you have a protest and we agree that there is مفاصد to attach the protest which means that it shouldn't be done Question if what you're protesting for is a مفصد عظيمة a greater harm that's coming say for example the UK government one two shut down all the massage it and now you have a chance to change that legislation through protesting Are you allowed to do it then now beautiful so let's look at this issue protest is حرم okay it's a مفصد yeah we have we don't deny that we say okay because the group of people who say that it's not a مفصد it's fine what's wrong with it it's an issue we want them first of all to come to the conclusion that it's حرام محرم it's got مفاصد ملحوبة عظيم one I mean there are tons of مفاصد that we can mention now we have a greater مفصد greater than the current one يعني greater than اختلاق الرجال بالنساء a greater than what we some of that which we mentioned which is فتح المجال للمفصدين من المجنمين والمخاربين we have a greater خام than that العلام الشيخ محمد المصال حرث يمين at this point and it's very strong argument he brought forward he said it's now in this situation especially western governments it's they hear your voice through demonstrations that's the way that the government hears what you have to say and there's no other way they will listen unless they fail under the pressure that the whole entire community is against them on this issue so in a situation like that الشيخ محمد عثيمين gave the fatwa the permissibility that he doesn't see any problem with the Muslims demonstrating in order to but the harm that's there has to be less than the greater harm that's going to come if they don't protest which is what is called ارتخابو اقل المفصدين يعني protesting for the lesser of the two harms now the lesser harm is compared to the messages being closed or يعني يعني قضاية عظيمة for the Muslims in a situation like that الشيخ محمد عثيمين رحمه الله who's a great scholar of our time said it's permissible and I can see that as a valid يعني differences where both parties can I still hold your opinion that it's not allowed even in that circumstance I believe personally is best to avoid it okay and to leave it and not to go even if the UK government want to I believe the the thing is the ends don't justify the means yeah and also it's really hard to actually say that it's going to actually work mm true because the reason I'm going to do this and I've said that is I'm sure that this must this harm that I'm going to tread on is definitely legally bigger result I don't I don't think there's no certainty for sure that they're going to listen and there's no gala but to run also the the number of Muslims are very large the government isn't I mean definitely not in in I mean in any way shape or form winning to to even consider what the Muslim say so I don't think it's a working method if somebody else chooses to take that approach and he feels like it's going to work I think he's got a a great bona fide okay undisputed Imam of our time Sheik Muhammad of the Rasala Rasaymeen who based on a very strong or surely perspective to say that it's less of two homes but I don't think it's Muhammad opinion I don't think looking at the way he Sheik sees it and the way that the reality turns out to be it doesn't change anything I'll give you a prime example come black lives matter in America right now the biggest protest they did the that protest went from border to border it went to countries it wants I don't think in any shape or form that's going to to change police brutality towards black people I mean I'm not I don't want to I mean we can the effort that was put in and I don't want to undermine the people's hard work I just think some things is just demonstration just seems like a weak way of voicing your opinion it's like please take the palm off me it doesn't I'm when you say that in my humble opinion I disagree with Sheik I mean for example it's not necessarily you you've other I'm not there I'm not able to go to the evidence myself and disagree with a great Imam of our time like that I'd say there are the scholars who said otherwise in that instance when someone is trying to identify what is the lesser of two evils it goes back to the people I'm at okay and we are ready is not the situation of the message it is the is the threat real is actually a real threat or is just the one news outlet release something and is it actually a real threat what's the what's the reality of it actually even happening or it's just got or the or is this this guy just saying it just to you know provoke or he just wants a voice and he wants to get a voice for his because now is anything you say bad about Muslims it gives you voice from other communities so is actually really got to do it all of that أهلو العلم are the ones who determine it okay and your solution for the people who say the scholars who are not in the west don't understand our reality is for the students of knowledge in the west who do understand the reality to take it back to the Obama okay what's weird is actually really weird about some people is that they they say that and they say does not import and then the same time they tell you but they mean permitted right yes it's it's it's it's it's it's it's