 The scene somehow here. I know I'm not I'm on the wrong. I'm on the right scene Okay, I just don't want to bring you guys in just yet. So I mess that up somehow. All right. Anyway Boy, all right. Well, I don't know what I've done here Messing stuff up already. There we go. Okay So yes, we are back again today, I did want to talk to everybody just kind of a let me see here if I can find it There we go. Jeez. Hello. That took a while to get to get right. Yeah. So how are y'all doing? So today I spent most of the day watching Destiny he did a research stream on the whole entire Israeli Palestine conflict which I'm Pretty well versed on I've been following it for about 20 25 years or so So I know I know it pretty well as good refresher. I'm up to date and so we're gonna do a little debate here I think we have a few from the right a few from the left and We're gonna talk about whether or not there should be a ceasefire now. Obviously, you've probably guessed my position I don't think there should be but it's really interesting when it comes to this topic because You know your position on it doesn't really fall along right or left. It's very mixed. It's very strange that way There's a lot of right-wingers that are Vmly against Israel. They're for a ceasefire. There's a bunch on the left Who agree with them? But then there's a bunch on the right and left like me and I think liberal clock is gonna be on I think he agrees with me So we're gonna talk about it We're gonna debate it if you would like to join us. There are ways to do that. You can join the discord And then you can join the debate. We'll go ahead and let you in. I'm very Open with all of this until you do something that you're not supposed to be doing then we'll kick you out and you won't come back So hopefully people let us do this so we can have nice things for for once So I'm gonna go ahead and bring in the discord right now Okay, what time what time is supposed to start? No Right now. Hey, yeah Wait, it's already started. You're you're on a stream right now. It's starting to roll in now I just want to say goodbye to riddle and run before we start And as for the fan thing it's more that I thought she was a cool Character in that show and when she got asked for standing up for beliefs that really caught my attention because I thought that was pretty messed up So I got her little Character to here have her around Anyway, yeah, thanks for thanks for at least doing the tailgate party with us and I'll see you later Yeah, hope the debate goes well and hope you guys. Yeah Yeah, oh By the way, a couple of things before we go James Wood was given executive producer credits for open Hi, sir guys hear me Yeah They must not be able to hear me The muslim what? I didn't catch that your mic. Can you guys hear me? Yeah, yeah, we're live. We're live right now on the stream. Oh Yeah So, yeah, I was just explaining to the people watching right now that We're gonna discuss whether or not there should be a ceasefire and I'm gonna be part of this debate So I'm gonna let RW. I think you're gonna moderate RW. Is that correct or no? Okay, yeah, RW is gonna is gonna take it from me here, but good luck to everybody Yeah, thanks for joining everyone. I This group size is pretty solid. I and the minds in here that I know I already know it's gonna be a conversation So for everybody that Followed my hand came to join us tonight. I really appreciate that So, yeah, we're going to be talking about The Israeli and you know is it should Israel ceasefire on Gaza? That's the main Topic and then if we have time we'll go into the open border policy is benefiting child trafficking within the USA and Also, there's a special research project done by Tyler Covering the Biden impeachment inquiry. So that's also a solid topic. We could have if there's any windows of time We're gonna start off with the intros that are if we can try and keep it to one minute because we have such a large group Where we're not debating back and forth at that time But you're just just take notes as people go through their introductions reflecting on their thoughts on the topics And then once we get through that intro, we'll do open debate and if there's enough time at the end We'll do closings, but other than that the only rule structure is respect, you know, let people finish their thoughts Don't cut them off interrupt them If there's youth anywhere watching try and be a good example If you're engaged with the question, please respond to the query because non-responsives aren't appreciated by the group We're all mature enough here that we know when someone's being a non-responsive Keg's here. So he knows about the soundboard So please use the soundboard and if anyone gets annoyed by the soundboard you can mute them Or if they're being ridiculous, I can mute this just the soundboard aspect And try to keep your thoughts to one or two minutes But yeah, other than that I just want to thank Last Dance for being here. I always appreciate his knowledge and wisdom and It was kind of a request of mine for him to come and hang out with us here. So thanks dude um Now i'm gonna hand it over to intros. Tyler if you're willing to go first You know state anything any thoughts you have on the the debate topics and also now's a good time to share any other Ideas that you may want to talk about and I can make notes But anyway, how about it guys? I'm gonna sit in the background and I'll call out the next person for their intros. Thank you What's going on? Tyler average debate enjoy I make uh youtube content where I watch like political hearings and try to break them down in a digestible bit Uh debate policy like theory crafting debate policy from scratch So if anyone's ever interested in that give me a sub but otherwise i'm just kind of Here to give the uh bill clinton ish Back when democrats still liked america. That's kind of a perspective I offer. So nice to meet you guys Thank you. Tyler um atlas. Are you up for doing your intro next? Sure. My name is atlas. I'm a menace on the server I uh i'm gonna be debating uh Pro ceasefire for israeli conflict tonight. That's it All right, thanks dude. Uh kang you're up man Hello, I guess I don't know what to expect from this bay. I'm I'm think I'm leaning towards um No to ceasefire, but I'm willing to be convinced. Um, but yeah, that's all All right, that's cool, man, uh brandon. Are you able to do an intro at this time or if not I can swing back Because I know you're busy Okay, five seconds All right, uh darth jacob. You're up next bro Hey, uh, my name is darth jacob. Um, I'll be uh Taking the neutral side because I believe that there is There is more to the story. I believe than what we've been told I do believe that neither side is innocent I do believe the only innocent people are the citizens palestinian and israelis All right Thank you. Um drone tech, uh, do you want to repeat your Stance on your intro now for the group because none of them here would have heard that Yeah, um, yeah, everybody knows who I am, but uh, I am pro or I'm time anti ceasefire and uh, essentially Throughout the last at least 25 years and I know before that Basically, we've had the same exact cycle occurring where Uh, you know Arab nations use these people called palestinians to attack israel and in an effort to wipe them out and Israel has no choice at this point. Like we've seen this over and over and over and over and I've the other side I think has been uh thoroughly debunked at this point and uh israel should be allowed to finish the war and that's my stance Okay, thank you keg man. You're up Um, everybody should know me uh admin. Um, I don't really have it. I'm just observing to be honest, so That's cool. Glad to have you here man. I know you're a busy guy Um, thank you last dance dude. You you got the mic Hey, how's everybody doing? Uh Originally, I was anti ceasefire Uh, now I'm not so sure. It's not a very useful position for a debate. I'm kind of waffling but uh I think um I favor no ceasefire because I think kamas has to be eliminated not just Uh punched in the nose But on the other hand, it's such a humanitarian disaster. It's going to get worse that I I just can't Ignore the uh the humanitarian aspects of it And uh, I don't really have an opinion on the sex trafficking of children Due to weak border controls and because I don't really know whether that's a problem. So I'll have to let others I don't voice their opinions on that Okay, thank you, dude. Um So I'll go next. I don't really have a much dog in the fight for the first argument I think it's just terrible when you know civilians are getting wrecked And any on any side for any reason So I'll kind of sit back and let you guys talk about that on intellectual level Uh, I prepared I prepared information more on child trafficking with the open border situation um So I probably might get a little more into stuff there Uh, but yeah, that's all I really have. Uh, Steve you're up last, dude Go ahead man. You're you're muted at the moment Oh, sorry and after you will do dank brandon because he's he's back Yeah, in all honesty, I'm like probably in this same camp And one thought of drone tech I don't want a ceasefire because I do think this death cult needs to be eliminated But but uh, I'm at my wits end with seeing them pull little kids out of rubble and they're onesy Fucking dead, you know, so like yeah, probably the same thing that last dance is thinking You know, we don't want to see that and it's happening. So we have to see that So the result of of eliminating them seems to be Killing a lot of innocent people in the process That's problematic for me. So yeah There's a duality there, you know, that it's it's hard to to um To rationalize I don't like to see the people being killed, but I know they can no longer exist. Hamas has to go Uh, and I'm I'm definitely interested in in not exploring what you said about human trafficking I did read a little bit about What um, Kennedy said about it when he visited the border and You know, it's certainly it's certainly possible those people will will traffic anything that they can to make money on They don't don't do not care if it's alive Um, so yeah, it's an interesting subject matter Thanks to you, uh, well put man. Um, uh, Brandon, you want your chance to do your intro, dude? Uh, yeah Get everybody on me Yeah, you're doing good, man All right. All right. Um, all right, so, uh I suppose I'm gonna be the one that's gonna be a little bit like More of a nuanced uh, take on this so I do believe that there should be a ceasefire as far as the bombing campaign Uh, Israel's, uh Shown obviously that they do not really care for civilian life um There was a refugee camp that was bombed Uh, trying to find like one Hamas terrorist They can't even confirm that that guy died um Then you know tons of casualties Besides that one terrorist that they were looking for, uh, but they can't really confirm that he died uh, so Yeah, that like that's that's my that's my whole thing like the bombing campaign should end, um I know that, uh Israel has like some kind of like Special ops unit that we have trained that they can like send in Um, even if they're going to like run a bombing campaign where they're bombing like empty buildings while they're Running their special unit in they they there should be like boots on the ground Israeli boots on the ground looking for people not just a Uh wishy-washy bombing campaign there There's not just civilian civilian Palestinians Palestinians that are In the way of the bombing campaign, but there's also the hostages Um, then they don't really seem that concerned about whether or not they get the hostages back alive either Uh, so yeah, that's kind of my stance on it. Um, I suppose i'm done for now Sorry one second Ashley you're just in time for an introduction. Uh, are you familiar with the content? No, uh, tell me what the topic is So, uh, what is your stance on a ceasefire in israel gaza? Uh, any stance you may have on child trafficking since the open border policy and The last one that we make a time to go into is the biden impeachment inquiry Uh, first off a ceasefire would be lovely, but I figure that that's a pipe dream after War since the dawn of recorded history number two I find child trafficking and anything having to do with it bomblessly abhorrent I don't even like women who put their little girl's patent pictures online And uh, remember what was the third one the impeachment of biden? No, we haven't gotten to that. Sorry. I'm pushing the wrong. Yeah, we haven't got to that yet It's it's the inquiry of the fight impeachment Uh, well, honestly, I haven't seen much media even Even non-traditional media on it. So I'm I'm very undereducated about it I got you don't worry. Okay All right. Um, so we're gonna that was good intros everyone solid intros We're going to go into open debate now. Just do your best to be respectful and let people Oh, yeah, I crossed your name out. I didn't I'm sorry. Do you go for it? Am I not on the screen? No, you're on the screen, but I someone else was talking I crossed your name out like a pro Hey, I gotta run. Okay. Have a good show Later. Be safe. Okay All right. So when you brought up this topic, I um, asked the discord what a ceasefire was Um, and I didn't really get an answer which is kind of strange if we're gonna be like Talking about something we should at least know what we're talking about How about a ceasefire of artillery? Of artillery, okay. Well when I looked up What what what I looked up what uh, quote-unquote my, um, Hamas supporting side believed Um, Biden says that we need a pause Uh, Biden calls Hamas a terrorist group and what he means by a pause is, um, simply he wants to be able to Stop the fighting in order to get, um, humanitarian supplies in Um, he, uh, let's see Um, the U. S. Uh, the U. S. Ambassadors have, um, Completely burned down a proposal for what I guess you would call a traditional ceasefire in favor of a much more, um, Much more light kind of, uh, they call it a humanitarian Pause or something like that, which is similar to what Biden wants to do. Um So it doesn't really seem like there's a lot of people on my side of the aisle that wants like The fighting to stop or wants israel to stop defending themselves or anything like that Um, and I am for let allowing humanitarian supplies make it into, um Into gaza, um, and I am for For The israels being able to, um, do what they need to do in order to get their Hostages back if that is what they want to do But I am not for like indiscriminate bombings of civilian places even if Hamas is hiding amongst those places Okay, well, we should just start then from there because Yeah, I mean you're open now. Yeah, I mean, I would say if if what you just said is the case then Um, it's impossible to bomb Hamas because they that's the only places they are is where are where the civilians are Gaza specifically is so densely populated and it's not like There's like separate areas where Hamas can set, you know And we know now from Hamas's leader that they don't care if the people die. They want them to die and so, you know, I this idea that, um, that Because there are and look I get it like it's horrible. Like I can't I can't watch it either Especially like the kids. I can't watch it and I know it's how awful and horrible and nightmares it is But at the same time this is going on I'm sorry Nothing going on dude No, this is going on for so long and just think of the generations of kids that have been killed in bombings going for We this needs to be ended now and honestly I don't know if wiping out Hamas would even end it because I mean this is so such a It's there's like a spiderweb of support coming from different countries that That's been going on going back to the 1950s You know I just I don't think I don't think flavor of the week I mean, isn't it some group or others since the beginning of Hamas is just the flavor of their Hamas is one of several different, you know, palestinian splinter groups or whatever and these groups have always been a big What do you want to say? They've been like in the way of peace like even but even when when The camp david accords went on Arafat He didn't get every single thing he wanted and so he had already decided that he was going to start the second infatata Okay, so and this is like the cycle that happens every time and what they want is israel to not exist I mean the hot Hamas leader just said the other day like That's the only ceasefire conditions. They would accept So like you have this is going to end the war there's no other option We are ready for political negotiation negotiations for a two-state solution with Jerusalem as the capital of palestine Hania said during his address Adding a caveat that the process can only begin with the condition of a ceasefire in the opening of humanitarian corridors So, I mean, it doesn't sound like they want to keep fighting sounds like they want to ceasefire But well, I have another clip of them saying something else. Oh, sure. Sure. This was today. So, okay Okay, well I mean, we hear like I said, we've heard this many times right many times I agree, but there's only one side that has a has a monopoly on the violence, right? We we know israel has A monopoly on the violence in the sense of their military aid that we give them and in their own training and their own Their own abilities It is within they're a power to choose to stop the violence And so the only question is what does victory looks like? What does victory look like right that that is the question you have to ask them What does victory look like and is victory the glassing of gaza? I hope they've already announced that the complete and utter elimination of hamas from the face of the earth Or there's unconditional All along with everyone around them. I get it cool with their own additional order. Yes If they're using people as human shields, you don't get away from crying You shoot the kids too in front of them, right? Yes, yes, so we fall so we pull so let's pull to the to the I gave to everybody in the chat for context, right? Okay, let me population density of it of gaza 41 percent between the ages of 14 of zero to 14 years old Right, almost half of everyone in that place is a child right and it's it you know what it is You know what gaza is and the west bank for that matter It's just tear it's just terror camp breeding ground and they're just breeding soldiers to go and And their lives for the breeding ground the walls were constructed by who paying What they're paying. Iran is paying them to do it But but but there's one thing we need to know, okay If hamas is getting rid of there will be a power vacuum to be filled in by some other palestinian groups So that's what i'm saying. They're just the flavor of the week and you can you can Because the palestinians mean they're evil, right? There are plenty of peaceful palestinian groups in the area like the fata About the nazis for the most part. Yeah, all right. I'm glad it took us how long to get to a nazi reference. Okay, cool Well, they were literally allied with the nazis They were literally allied with the nazis Okay, wait a minute. What are you talking about? They were allied with the nazis during World War II It was it was allied with the nazis Guys guys guys calm down. All right All right, cool ahead prevail. All right. I'm cool. Let's just how this is already heated Look, all right All right. I think we should put a temporary pause on the nazis, okay? Put a temporary pause on the nazi reference now. So i'm clear. This is only temporary, right? I didn't bring up the nazis I mean, how can you not? I feel like it's inseparable Because because if you have a lower IQ everything leads back to the nazis. You can't deal with new ones No, they are literally connected historically to the nazis So Catholic church because they're also connected to the nazis everything is connected The catholic church Wait, wait a minute. The catholic church attacks Attacks jews on behalf of the nazis Spokes people from hamas are quoting hitler and holding up swastika. Wait. Wait. Wait a minute. The Did the catholic church launch attacks against jews that were supported by the nazis? I didn't derail this because Okay, let me ask you a question So people approach ceasefire If there is a ceasefire, how do we know that this won't happen again because This will certainly will This is my perspective. They have to Israel have to respond to Two-state solution and that and that's what i'm saying. There's no real attempt on either side for a two-state solution I agree that hamas is a problem I agree for the hamas as a terrorist group. I agree with all that crap. Okay My interpretation is I agree that palette that that the gaza strip is a glorified Open-air prison and hamas is the gang that runs the prison I I agree with the entire statement But the problem is there's somebody running and it's not hamas. It's running the prison Who is the prison guards? There is a there is a blockade and there are walls and there are There is a there is a apartheid like A rule set in place for the people that live in there so they can never actually get a real place and a real real self Real self-actualization in their own land in their own country because they can't trade they can't I said apartheid like I was very specific It was similar in some rules What elements what elements what elements are you talking about that as a apartheid The elements that certain people from within gaza can are not allowed to work and they have to be they there's curfews for the people In gaza. There are there are property right restrictions for the people in gaza. They're driving right restrictions for the people living in gaza Do I need to go? What about west bank? What about west bank? Uh, I understand west bank is a little bit better. I understand. I am not a foreign Relations expert. I fully agree. I am reading up as we go But as far as I am aware the west bank is not as bad as the gaza strip, but uh, it still also receives some issues All right before 2006 there used to be israeli settlements In in the gaza strip. So israeli settlements. So they pulled them out The settlements are part of the contention, right? The issue is is that palestine does not like the fact that israelis are setting up settlements encroaching on their territory And then there's israeli later Just caused to annex said territory. There's there are no settlements in gaza. There are settlements out in 2005 Do you guys think that should be settlements in west bank? No, no, maybe not but hold on before we get to there I mean the fucking israelis are building free settlements for the people of the west bank One out of every four settlements that's built is built with israeli money The israelis and the international community are who gave them the hikes that hamas turned into bombs They're also the ones that donated hundreds and hundreds of tons of concrete that hamas took from the people that was supposed to be built for Bomb shelters took it from the people and built their underground terrorist terrorist network with So hama they're getting humanitarian aid 500 million dollars from the united states between april 2021 and the start of this They're getting it and they're spending it on terrorism Can we Do we agree or disagree that there should be israeli settlements in the west bank? Okay Why wasn't israel concerned when the christian settlements were all Wiped out eradicated raped and pillage decades ago What makes israeli think that their settlements should be allowed there and the christian settlements should not They allowed christians into their country guys. We're jumping around a lot here Yeah If any outside group is treated this way then an outside group can't come in and reasonably expect to be un molested Drone tech, can you bring it back with a statement or a thought? No? I was just like I don't know who that was talking earlier about it being an open-air prison. I feel like we have to address that Atlas okay, so and you talked about these restrictions that got and Guys like you always say those things, but you don't you act like it just happened in a vacuum Like they marched in there and did that. Oh, it didn't happen in a why did it happen the history? Right. Why did it happen? Which which part so are you familiar? So how familiar are you with with the history here? We how far do you want to back? Do you want to go? Do you want to go back to jewish history? Or do you want to go back just to 19? Well, let's since we're talking about two-state solution and all that and israeli Either sign what's a two-state solution like the the evidence shows that israeli has really Like over and over again tried to make concessions tried to make peace and there has been Some things achieved, but every single time it happens Uh hamas or these splinter groups start launching attacks And then it falls apart every time Well, if we omit that the that the palestinians have omitted, you know, the the hamas actually Been on the bad side of things doing a majority of breaking the agreements Is it possible? Can we also agree that? That the israeli government is not completely innocent They're not completely innocent, but I think we have to address I think that we have to admit that israeli has Tried at some points they left and didn't they leave gaza trip in 2005 So they have made concessions. I don't know what hamas or even palestinians Like what have they done so far like they keep on lobbing rockets at israel and doesn't get anywhere When we make these comments though about i want to make sure we keep in mind that more than half of everyone We're talking about are children and you're having some sort of like Lesson expectation They're not that they're supposed to have some sort of like enlightened centrist point of view that they should not Inact violence on the people that are keeping in your case. Who are you blaming though? You're blaming israel No Violence and in a circle, there's no one person to blame Why are the majority children? Why If you get too old they fight and die is what happens. You're correct. You're correct But that doesn't excuse us to bomb a city. It doesn't excuse us to bomb So then they have the perfect military strategy at let's correct. It's not a military strategy It is a rebellion and and they are the mass occupy territory But you're saying that since you're saying that these conditions exist therefore israel care Can't find israel has the monopoly of violence and they are thus like They do not have uh, no they attack israel they started this war To avoid civilians, I applaud them, you know, I if they can try to avoid seeming to mean that's that's on them Yes If you own up what they have done You need to reset to try and let people finish their thoughts because there's no there's no conversation. Sorry. It's just sorry It's just that I tried to like I think is there any way we could try and organize who can go first and then next, you know It try and learn to join into a conversation at the right times and gain your ability in that I don't want to do that if we need to but yeah, let's see Yeah, because when I when I try because when there's a bit of break in there I try to put something in but I don't want to sound like I was interrupting because when I do try I appreciate you. Please go ahead. I need to do the same All right my turn Yes, yes, go ahead. Okay. So but here's the thing The reason why the war started and here's what we know at the start The israeli government had a massive intelligence failure. It was one of the biggest intelligence blunders in decades They had all the intelligence power And yet they couldn't even attempt that sort of attack So why was that a big of a failure? That should have been prevented in the first place. So So you're saying like like why didn't 9 11 happen? I mean like there there are obviously intelligent failures I do not believe I am an atheist. So I do not believe in the world of mysticism, right? So there I believe there is an explanation for everything, right? I understand the intelligence failures that happened in in 2001 I understand the two intelligence failures that happened this year Just because there's an intelligence failure does not change what I mean by a monopoly of violence and until I can explain that Sure, I will gladly explain that right so kind of like how the United States had a monopoly of violence in in Iraq, right? We we it was contested sure for about a week and then the United States led an occupation into Iraq for a long time Okay, now those there are plenty of soldiers and people who fought against the United States during that war, right? And those people we could say are terrorists But they are people who are legitimately fighting for their for their country, right? And so what we need to do in order to minimize the violence in general is to give as few people reasons to retaliate as possible And when you bomb indiscriminately homes and kids and families when I'm let me just do a little thought experiment for everybody, right? If I'm a child and my mom and my dad and my brother and my sister were all murdered by an oppressive occupation I'm pretty sure my next job is going to be Fighting against that occupation. We need to we need to participate. We need to participate as little in that process in that cycle as possible thus But that but that doesn't excuse the fact that israeli had a massive intelligence failure This should have been pricked up masad is one of the most powerful intelligence agencies in the world Human they are human in my world. They're allowed to make mistakes and hamas took advantage of those failures and I already come called hamas a gang. I don't know why i'm not defending hamas in this group I am saying we must understand the circle of violence and understand how to stop the circle from turning In this case the circle of violence can only stop once you completely remove the other side's ability to make war against you because Look, the palestinian people Are dedicated to circle of violence because of myth anyways. I got a question. Can I ask a question? So the goal is to um completely eliminate hamas. How many palestinian civilians to one hamas? Um soldier or operative. Are you willing to sacrifice in that endeavor? I mean as he wants as many as possible I don't want it, but I understand that that's all that's gonna work here Otherwise you're just stretching this out you you all have not no offense no offense, but you all uh, uh atlas Have stretched this shit out over decades now and so you have decades of people dying All right, that's all i'm saying is that maybe this war needs to be allowed to be finished Let me answer this question As many as it takes because as every time that hamas has held accountable for their actions They're going to put children get pulling children seen onesies come out of a goes on the israeli side too if they let this continue None of those deaths are on israel's hands. They're on gaza's hands. They're on hamas's hands But can you also think that doesn't excuse israeli intelligence failures Do you admit that doesn't excuse israeli intelligence failures? I think of all those israelis who grew up during the second infatata seeing you know, they're disemboweled Friends and stuff blown up friends from suicide bombings Well, I'm I think I have a different opinion unless someone's being sarcastic I have a different opinion from everyone here Throughout every government since the beginning of time there have been intentional intelligence failures to rally public support of citizenry I am not willing to entertain the benjen anya who intelligent like intentionally caused 9 11 or intentionally caused this Invent in the same way george bush caused 9 11. I don't I don't know Has been since the beginning of tom You Thank you. All right. I just want to circle back to uh last instead that the circle of violence is a myth And I would really like to bet that to be broken down because I'm not sure if I agree with that at face value The circle of violence Everybody said the circle of violence is a myth. Please explain because if not, I'll I'll pull out a map and I'll I'll I'll draw you a circle Like like who created the circle of circle of violence If the circle of violence Started when abraham All right, uh, go ahead dance, dude. I also need to know why they're in a prison atlas never answered Yeah, I mean the the notion that there is this endless circle of violence that Can't be broken. I mean it's not supported by by history the The fact that we are at peace with The people that we were at war with in the in a previous generation A very warm piece is uh contradicts that And the fact that in in reality I think most palestinians would be willing to Have a peace with israel even with all that's happened most Yeah, absolutely most I think most would and uh So I think you know that it's not a circle of violence. That isn't the issue it's the it's giving It's giving the most violent elements free reign and and weapons and uh You know, we should arguably israel right So people would victims would argue would israel is the most violent right 24 percent I mean you talked about the They would I'm asking can you understand their perception talked about it being an open-air prison But every single restriction that makes it like prison life was enacted after Not just random violence, but after suicide bombings from the gaza From the gaza strip. So it's on a group of children. They're purely defensive measures Right impose on mostly children. I understand They're not opposed on children. It's the parents Of all the palestinians that exist of the 14 million are there and the 2022 census are children Yeah, I know it is zero to 14 Why are you blaming egypt or jordan or iran? I don't understand why israel gets the blaming So I don't live in those countries and if I could I would shout and I tell them to go to them But for for other reasons that are religious Because I Jordan won't take them No, I know I know they won't take them right. I understand that I'm an argument for that. Okay. Do you understand that egypt also has a fence Fencing in the gossands because they have a border with gaza Right, so you're describing one of the four walls around them. I'm trying to understand what the point is Why does everybody why does nobody want palestinians and everyone wants to build walls around them? I'm just saying if there wasn't one wall, they could they could get all the aid Maybe the problem lies with the palestinians. Maybe maybe I I am not The religious disputes between the jordanians and the egyptians and the palestinians If if it were me, they're all human They should all be comfortable living in a nice place elsewhere But for some reason all these people want to live in the same little grid in the same square Because they all have the same holy sites in the same spot. No, but you're you're you're here to just uh I'm here to ask for a mislead about the issue because you're suggesting for cedrial has a monopoly of violence They do have Their closure of the gaza Is wrong, but it's egypt has also closed the gaza strip. So how do you explain that? How does that? Jive with your theory It does jive with my theory But egypt jordan and syria are not what I would consider liberal democracies And thus I would get I have criticisms for each of them on in their own category But once if you want to talk about each one of those we could but I feel like that's getting away from the topic Can I just interject real quick? I didn't know that gaza was a liberal democracy Well, obviously not well, how did I miss this? 24 Real quick since I've been sitting patiently Real quick 24 of palestinian support a two-state solution down for 59 percent. I would like to say why I mean, this is gonna be very very general, um Why doesn't everybody stay out of it and defend america This is why we're allies And I have my own other opinions, but at the end of the day, we let them do their shit and you Because it's a functioning democracy. We want to spread democracy in the middle east Yeah, not even that like we we're america's stronger because I was being facetious Well, mate. Well, mate money doesn't grow by a terrorist state then I'm being very Very vague, but at the end of the day, that's how I feel and yeah, I'll hop in with some more stuff, but uh Can I just say um in regards to like here's the thing We are in a bit of an economic crisis So if we keep sending money to israel Like it's going to drain our taxpayer pockets like money doesn't grow from the tree. Okay, and we're saying we like americans Because you're australia. Are you seeing this as an australian? Sorry Like sorry, like i'm trying to say your money doesn't grow far from the trees like Like money doesn't grow on trees. So like are we be able to afford this like if this war goes on for longer? Are we able to afford it? Yes, wait does that does that even wait? Yeah People who for people to understand how we send foreign aid, okay We send we send our surplus right if you've worked in a fast food restaurant. You understand that That's That is true. We are sending surplus, but then we are also funding the operation of ukrainian's government. Yes It's money, it's not They don't get they don't get a card and get an amazon card and start buying stuff off of amazon They get so we send a dollar. So we do an audit and that audit has a dollar amount And that dollar amount is what it's reported But what they receive are goods and services that are supplied from here like lockheed martin and weapons and all the other crap You need to be reading the bills that you understand that we are funding the operation I know you That's free. We're literally paying we're literally paying the the salaries of politicians in ukraine, dude I just don't believe you. I'm sorry Half-truths and pretending like that's the whole story You're saying half-truths You can go look at the bills that we've passed you can go look at what's actually been sent We're sending us 40 to 50 billion dollars in liquid money to ukraine with no nothing attached to it We don't even know what the money's going to a lot of it's speculated to be going to corruption I want to feel in this chat room now I was told last time I provided I provided right and this time I'm asking right I even gave a link for for the statistics that I'm using to me I thought it would be respectful to the group in order for me to provide my sources, right? Unlike everybody else here Atlas we that is the standard I'm not affiliated with these guys. I'm a solo practitioner. Are we talking about your credit? Oh, tyler you're part of the family It's okay. I'm just I'm just we're like to be a menace. I'm sorry if I'm coming off heated I appreciate everyone letting me in here, but I do like I do like everyone looking at me like I'm a monster. So I appreciate that No, I just Asking for you to let people finish their conversations more because some people can't Do some people can multitask their thoughts other people can't I saw you I saw you meet me. You have my full permission to meet me if I'm too much I will do that Really left behind in the introduction somebody said that they're not for bombing They want the bombing to stop and they want ground troops to go into israel Yeah, so I especially forces what he said which is a which is a proper solution. I just want to address that is that we Already saw thousands of israelis die or get injured from the attack If they want to bomb a bit to start their invasion off Then we can't really ask them to put their people in harm's way Right off the jump after they just suffered that attack. I say they're justifying actually actually yes, we can actually yes We can um, so we hold on a second. Hold on a second. I've remained silent for all this time. I'm going to get my thoughts Okay, so I'm posting link for you. I'm posting links. So, you know, sorry go ahead dark well We fund like way more of israel's fighting than we have been funding for ukraine um So saying that we don't have a right to tell uh israel to stop their bombing campaign We have every right. We put up the iron dome dome for them. Um, we We've we've we've trained their troops in special ops. I know that we have because I've seen the reports of where Uh, israeli troops have gone in and done special ops in other instances um So That's that's that's like my view of why there should be a like a a cease to the bombing campaign and why we have a right to say that um And why there should be like ground troops gone in now. I did say that they're in the first place though Just like iraq and everywhere else Okay, well, well, that's that's easy. That's easy because it is it is our biggest ally in the glee Uh In the first place, why don't we just defend america? Well, I have I have a massive concern Okay, shut up for a second. Let me get out my thing. I was I was asked a question. Why are we there in the first place? The reason that we I'm just throwing that in the reason that The the reason that we are there is because they're uh, they are our biggest ally in the middle east Yes, we need a bit a large ally in the middle east because there are terrorist groups in the middle There are always going to be terrorist groups in the middle east They're always going to be terrorist groups in the middle east as long as we continue to wage A war in the way that we're continuing to wage a war um so We we kill people's You know parents and children And ensure that the next generation are going to be taught to hate the people that have done that And and to seek Now my my question hold on a hold on a second I also have a question that I want to get out and then I will I will meet myself and be silent again for a few minutes um, so my question uh to uh, uh drone is he said earlier He just wants israel to go ahead and finish this So my question is what does that look like? Um, does every palestinian need to die? Do they need to ethnically cleanse the land? I don't understand like why that's where you go No, like again Wait, you don't you don't understand you don't understand why you don't understand why why that's where I go Shut up those are the options. Okay Uh, you you you you you want it to end so, um, hold on be quiet be quiet. I'm gonna finish You you want it to end But you're not like putting out where the the end is going to be so my question is Is it is it with wiping out all palestinians or ethnically cleansing the land? Which means putting them on trains and sending them to some place that will take them Um, now I'll be quiet again And I'll have some more things to say later on after I'm done doing other things I would hope not any of those things. I hope that doesn't happen I I believe that probably Israel's gonna have to reoccupy the area again Um, I you know, I think the element the it's gonna have to be an iron fist I mean like just look at what we're still in Germany. So, you know, I don't know man Like it's a Come back on the body. Wait, why don't I have a Okay, um, my massive concern is if they get rid of Hamas who is going to fill their place That's the thing Something has to somebody has to and we even said Fata earlier, you know, someone just said it now For some to vote for a new party or something Like completely eliminate Hamas and force the Palestinians to say you're going to have to vote for somebody else We're done. Like I just never gonna end honestly like When you said they're never gonna end then we just wait till they're all dead if it's never gonna end them We end when they're all dead. So when our people are fanatically dedicated Generatially to the eradication of a country. Like what do you do with that? Like I Petition the monopoly power to stop For that it's not as bleak as you make it sound a majority I want to say 62 of people in Gaza did not want to break this ceasefire with Israel True. It's true statistic. So I'll look at that. I don't buy it Okay, hold on, hold on We you just gave me a paper. I had a read and now he sends you a statistic. You don't buy it. Why? No drone tech, come on Because I've been looking at a lot of the polling and I have not seen anything like that. That's why I don't buy it What other polling have you received? I don't Enjoy it about hey, I didn't you know, I did provide you with the Ukrainian link. I know Just because one one study says one thing doesn't mean It's true. There are a hundred. I hate I argue with this dude all the time But he's giving a very real statistic that you guys need to be paying attention to but all of a sudden Wait, wait, Atlas, are you doing it? No, guys, thanks for all the advice I get retinal It could be however you want to handle the situation So there are hundreds of studies probably with very different outcomes is what I was trying to say before Well, I mean It can be perfectly valid Taller statistic can be perfectly valid But you can still view the entirety of the region's history back even before biblical time Go ahead and post that whatever poll you're talking about. I know you didn't post it You're all up my ass about it Well, if we're talking about if we're talking about getting rid of Hamas We have to know who is going to take his take their place. You know Is it doesn't really matter? What would what modern voices arise at a price? How old is America? First question. How old's America? USA how relevant your honor A little bit over 200 years Relevant your honor. How long has their shit been going on for? Since before biblical time before the dawn of recording history Abraham looked at Isaac there. I Was like here even I don't even know why this debate's happening besides Stop killing people and let them live. I understand that And guess who started it you what you need to go back That far to see who the hell started it. Yeah, Abraham. Yeah, this is why Yes, it was a false thingy. Yeah, their intelligence operation. They didn't see him coming. Here we go another false Have actually been involved in battle for rations Warring How many people live here in America right now? Why do we even need it to give them any relevance your honor the many thing? The reason why America is this kind of the way it is because we have strong allies around the world that we do trade with and We have like israel Strong military But what what do they give us in return it looks like America's giving everybody else everything and we get Hey, wait, wait a second. Wait a second, dude Have a lot of western allies who are who actually voting against israel Okay, okay now israel does provide us with a lot of intelligence in the region Which is why I said that there are a very needed ally in the region Um, I agree. But look, why are we even why do we even need to be involved? That's what we have been we have been we are picking up the pieces from history as part of the problem Okay, okay now My other thing I did answer your question. I'm telling you we're involved. We're involved because people prior to us before you and I were alive We're involved in this conflict and we live in the United States. We first get into it. Why did we first get into it? It's not Okay, okay, stop stop stop with all the religious fucking nonsense. It's it It doesn't mean anything to what we're actually talking about right now. Disagree. There's lots of Exactly, thank you It is I will say, you know, I will I will act as I don't even know why Like why does the whole muslim world has to get involved? I mean, especially like I know they're probably concerned with how But I don't I'm surprised that muslims don't get on china for the rumors What's going on with rigors muslim there? Look, I said I said earlier. I said earlier We have a whole Both religions all these religions have lots of holy sites all over this one small condensed area And they all want to settle on their very special piece of land Okay, I may not agree with those reasons, right? But there are there are various and there are many and they it's part of the well Somebody said what doesn't exist the circle of violence, right? And we I I just say that israel right now has the majority has the power to stop it And they won't Because I don't think I don't think the palestinians are in control of their own situation right now The same way prisoners aren't controlled The only thing I wanted to say is there was somebody asking why are we involved? It's my understanding that israel is like one of our number one allies in the region Which is probably pretty important considering how many groups of people hate us as america in that region They're they like give us intelligence and shit and also I think that their scientific community is Pretty robust. So having them like yeah, look at your surprises They're all I understand having buddies and everything But it's it's how could I say this? How Do we have to be an involved in a religious war that has been going on for thousands of years Why aren't we even talking about that? Because that's what it all boils down to dude and we change subjects No, it's still same subject Okay, check out all the wars was it What what did it have to be involved with was it was it trade? Was it a religious war? Was it? Occupying territory and they got mad and then what does that occupying territory is a d all the above Is there is there a d or all the above option? For um for for there. Yeah, but so then you're still saying it's religious So I agree. I agree the base. It's religious for the israel conflict. It was um back in like What was that the 40s the 30s? It was like the 30s when um a bunch of jewish refugees were put into the area by The uk and uk yeah, and There's something about the fall of the ottoman empire that gathered all these these groups of muslims and allowed the uk and jewish people to Kind of take over the land as a country um the surrounding muslim Communities did not like that uh understandably Honestly back then um and they tried to attack Israel, but they lost badly. So israel was able to pick up more land um, yeah It was a Yeah Because we supplied them negative negative not back No, no not like our our alliance we did we did work with them. It was not anything like it is now They that was pretty much them. We didn't have nukes back then. I agree This wait the six-day war was was the western powers not I'm not talking about just america, but like uk and other western maybe other Were we not involved the un the an early newly formed un gave the the farmer shepherd lands that are now israel proper to the refugees of the of the of a nazi regime Yes, we did. I'm talking militarily militarily Well part of this military right moving the people like getting them over logistically The military support supports it right because to get the logistics for the people over there There has to be some sort of military involvement to extract these people from a nazi occupation and move them into israel Now there wasn't actually that many of them at first really But nonetheless as the israeli population grew this became a larger and larger problem over the years Well, we do know that before the the formation of israel it used to be called a british mandate palestine Which was under british rule. So yes, it has to have been Well, we do know that it's been changed over time. You got british mandates palestine and then and then other countries. So So this is the united states fault Screw those bongers. I think it's everybody's Countries and uh politician or you know, the higher ups just wanting to stick their nose and everything else that they don't belong Dude, and that's what's causing everything. So I don't think I'm gonna get to your resolution tonight at all That was going to be the other one at at 1115 I think Okay, and I just found out that before the british mandate it israel used to be under the ottoman empire right Which joined the access powers, right? No, it was central powers before then so it's triller access Yeah What was before the ottoman empire? Well, our empire lasted a long time, but there's a lot of violence that exists with the ottoman empire They they had slaves and they had all kinds of crap for thousands. I mean this when I said circle of violence This is how far back the circle goes Yeah, so the ottoman empire was what ruled israel for hundreds of years. Yeah, you know, so parts of eastern europe as well And you keep going back. Yeah, eventually Oh This has some sort of religious element into the war between hamas and israel So we have to consider that there has to be some sort of religious element in the war Well, of course, but yeah, I would say our debate is because of the religious element There's like political reasons and geopolitical reasons for us and probably economic reasons for us to support israel Here's a good one. Yes, I'll think about real quick very simple If these two religions don't mix What do we do Nothing Yeah, I would say let them deal with their own shit and we stay here in america and become more secular Well Considering like here's the thing like ever since my country to africa apartheid ended decades ago I guarantee it like the corruption the uh, the Secretarianism the violence it just hasn't left. It's an institutionalized mindsets when you Because you can get rid of the organization, but the mindset you have to change So Do be real quick. Can you explain so it sounds like what you're saying is a ceasefire is your mindset for america But do you have a no, i'm not saying ceasefire at all I say let them do whatever the hell they want And we stay over here and mind your own business, but that's what I say By not being involved whatsoever, but on their front because we are then happy How could we be involved at all if we're not? I know we okay. Look look. Look. I'm gonna go back. I don't know your guys's names. I'm not here that often Yes, you guys have very good points and I don't disagree with You know 100 percent of what you're saying But you know, yes, we have been involved over there Do I want to be involved? Do you want to be involved? Do you have any personal matter in it? No, you do not as an american you do not it's not just that There's many different cause we get our fingers in and then why do people come to america? I'll shut up right after this Why do people come to america? welfare freedom right freedom of religion And prosecution and everything now. They brought it here, dude We don't need that here So let them go over there go you guys go over there and fight if you if you if you're for one side or the other Go over there and fight because here is america. I think all you guys forgot about that I think it's really bad for All together in america The topic of the debate what's going on over there though I think it's really bad foreign policy for us to just abandon our allies and it would make it way harder for us to Get allies in the future. Okay. Well, then here we go. Are they your allies or are they the politicians allies the country's Wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second. I have an answer for that. Okay. I have an answer for that They are our allies our personal allies because when we decided to make a fucking 21 one year blunder and go into a rock You're going back to the Dude, you went back. You went back to the beginning of time. You went back to the beginning of time Let me go back 21 years. Okay. Yeah, Brandon. You're good. Many's muted for a sec. Go ahead. Okay It is now when we decided to go into our 21 year blunder and go into the middle east because we were attacked Israel was right there beside us along with ukraine Uh, now I personally do not think that we should show the weakness That we would turn tail and run from an ally that fought in the trenches with us when we were attacked But that does not mean that I am okay with them making the same mistake that we did Going into another 21 year blunder that we are going to partially pay for both with mud money and with blood I'm done Not hating I want to add one word. I think it's weak minded to abandon our allies because our allies aren't just there for military They're there for economic reasons. We get 18 billion dollars worth of exports every single year from israel From integrated circuits refined petroleum medical instruments other measuring instruments They have to do with other fundamental industries We rely on israel in terms of economy and they provide us cheaper and better good Like all of our allies do so if we start abandoning our allies that we made deals with We start losing allies to other foreign powers. This makes china the world power and not us This makes our goods cost more this makes our goods have less integrity and less quality when we buy If america turns into an isolationist country the number one thing that's going to be affected is our economy So The question but I just I just want to put trade comes with military I just want to put in that but if we if like how long are we willing to to push forward this war Like how long are we willing to handle it? I would be willing to let it go on for years months like And we let the texan talk because I remember he did a good very good comment last time I'm not on here too much, but I remember he did very good comment last time You want to let the texan talk for a second? I saw he wanted to open his mouth So winton do you want to be your intro now dude? Let's give him total mic Okay, yeah about the other situation israel the reason why I'm personally somebody who who likes the country of israel. I think they have amazing people But I think that they were the wrong here because ever since the conflict between You know the gauze strip and israel they haven't given an opportunity for civilians To flee the area and so essentially what they're doing is they're bombing the shit out of um Palestine out of the gauze strip And civilians are being killed the terrorists that israel is quote-unquote trying to kill aren't being killed because They have the most sophisticated underground tunnel networks And the missiles aren't powerful enough to reach those tunnel networks, which means that it's a waste of time I think they're trying to eradicate the palestinian people and hamas is just going to be an asset Because let's be real here the united states has funded hamas. They funded hamas I'm pretty sure they funded the taliban in the middle east and they're using this as assets as an excuse because then Amos is going to come like they can come through the southern border. We have an open border, right? They can come through the southern border They can cause some terrorist attack here and they're going to be like oh look what amos did And so we're going to send 2 000 Marines and we're going to send warships to the middle east to go do some Shit as an excuse, right? So um, I think it's I think it's pretty much a shit show and israel is they know what they're doing It's all pre-planned. They're applying for this. They're trying to take us into world war three And so it's honestly a a major distraction Well, that's where we were talking about the lack of millions by the way five million Text and miss where we were talking about the failure of intelligence The intelligence failure he missed that part. I don't think he was in here yet But I don't think they're genocidal I think Israel has The most sophisticated intelligence agencies in the world. It's I can say it's almost It's almost competitive to our own intelligence agency. So I don't understand how they wouldn't be aware that mas would attack I mean, it's imminent There's like I was that's what I think texan. I just want to let you know, man They're not going to wipe out palestinians There's like they are wiping them out. What do you know? There's no In the west bank in Gaza, there's 5.35 million palestinians Oh, I agree. There will definitely be some remainders after the bombing. Sure. Why not? Why not? I mean, are these people really palestinians? No, I'm just saying Well, my main concern about the bombings by israel is that the hamas is going to use this for propaganda purposes Yeah, but you gotta but you gotta make sure that you don't give any advantages to hamas. So Any bomb not killing of civilians has full advantage Like they're not kill they're gonna be killing hamas. I'm lost nothing's happening to them The only thing that's happening at right now as we speak are civilians dying That's the only thing I'm getting Yeah, and hamas will use the civilians death for their own purpose. So And israel needs to figure out a plan to stop them from using that propaganda Well, israel already figured out a plan A hard world support during the hamas attacks. So now they can go do what they like Texan, do you realize this has been going on for a long time this cycle where Israel stops or well hamas attacks or Fatah or whatever it is going back to the 80s at least and they attack there's a ceasefire There's a piece that israel gives concessions. They get a piece then they get attacked again Then the international community says israel you have to stop your killing civilians. They stop They pull out a gaza, right? And then what does what happens hamas just digs in further And and trench further into the civilians attacks again israel responds. Oh, no, you can't do that israel You got to stop ceasefire hamas rebuilds attacks again. Like this goes over and over and over Yeah, we gotta keep on continuing if they don't I'm just saying like to say I get that their civilians dying That's horrible, but don't blame israel blame hamas blame egypt blame iran don't blame israel I'm gonna take a very crazy example, right? Let's say san francisco Let's say terrorist group was to take off san francisco, right and terrorize the people there Is the united states as a national guard just gonna start bombing san francisco and killing Of course Wait, wait, so I think they're they they have the right to self-defense and I think I don't know in any way impossible I think israel should do what they can to eliminate hamas if they Should try to avoid civilian deaths, but I don't know So why not? They shouldn't What makes you think ground evasion is gonna result in less civilian deaths and now we're launching a ground invasion That doesn't make sense to me. That's gonna just result in more israeli First first of all First of all human eyes are better than indiscriminate bombings Trappinal Exactly, so a human a human can determine whether or not somebody has an actual threat or if they're an A bomb camp right so is there one agreeing that should be a Ground evasion the idea in war is not to lose your soldiers. The so the other guy loses their soldiers That's the idea The idea of a clean war is to continue to keep the world behind you Never has the world behind them dude ever when has the world ever been behind israel ever Now more than ever Okay And first of all it doesn't matter how many countries are against israel right now Since since they were formed America has had their back Yeah, and let's be honest. Who else matters wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Yeah Like there's there's no other country on this planet that has a bigger military force than america How many aircrafts are in the Mediterranean right now? They have the backing of the world Because the world Is controlled by our military might Okay, okay, let me just put let me put my two cents in okay. Let me put my two cents in The main concern I have from australia has to be five cents All right five cents the main concern I have About the is that we cannot And bombing and bombing and bombing and bombing okay, you can bomb for two weeks straight That's still not that you just can't keep bombing There has to be a strategic smart strategy To eradicate the hamas problem from within because after all when you use bombs you spend money So we cannot keep continuing bombing non-stop I've got a question. I want to know why there's a world full of adults and we can't act like one I'm not saying the I'm not saying the chat. I'm saying War is nothing else I have a question I have a question who here supports ground invasion I'm raising my hand to you guys can't see it. Yeah I think the ground invasion would probably be more more precise than like a bombing campaign Okay, I can see that point. But which of you in support of the ground invasion will be drafted Um, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a second, dude I don't appreciate the missile signaling. I won't pull out my my own credentials what I do in my real life, but I'd be willing to Try and let people finish their thoughts it's getting chaotic So atlas was making a thought and you know, I picked on him for interrupting people. So I'm going to defend him now too okay All I'm saying is don't go get on somebody else's case saying like they have to get drafted in order to Have an opinion about something else. They can have an opinion about something else without wanting to get drafted Of course, of course But like if you have like Texan for instance, he's willing to put his money where his mouth is he's got actual skin in the game He's in support of this I have my morals beyond like I you don't know how much skin I have in the game and that's not really relevant, right? in the end of the day Recognize where we're at though. We're we're in a forum on discord. You know, I mean, you know when it hears You know, unless it has a recruitment symbol over it, you know I'm too old now, but I'm just I'm just saying that So question Was the question about a ground invasion by israel and now you're You're juxtaposition us being drafted for that You don't think will be drafted for in israeli or ukrainian war Luckily for you, you have a very much reservist force one tier fours that is very important to the united states military Real quick. Hey guys, uh, just so just just to let you know that's already an invasion of the Gaza Strip Yeah, there's already it's already going on. So what do you mean? Do you do you are you going to die in this war people think that Us as americans if they if israel would be like, yeah, we're not doing the ground invasion We're gonna be like no you got to do it like like when you asked if we were supported I thought you meant like would we like bulk at the idea of israel having a ground invasion But Level a a on foot invasion involves more loss of life than bombings or drones Is that true? I don't think that's no much less It depends you would need to go like with war school and go over like the soldiers and what's going on Yeah, it's too. It's not the same But what is the effectiveness of the bombings, you know, it's been going on for weeks very effective I'm trying to jump in about this for a while The indiscriminate bombing point Not reality. They're not just carpet bombing all the guys. They have sanctions over telling people to go at home Safe zones with Yes, yes, they are they're they're indiscriminately bombing going on Hold on we they're not indiscriminately bombing they release the bombs of the bombing that they're doing On top. Yes, they audited israel As the is held to the strictest standard They drop papers over little areas that they're about to bomb 48 hours before they do they call people They have dozens of recorded phone calls of israel Military officials calling people and saying we're going to bomb your building and the people in gaza saying I want you to kill me so I can die as a martyr for the cause So they're not indiscriminately bombing a lot of these people are putting themselves in harm's way We already have the documentation Iran will pay your family Five figures if you die for the cause and it ends up being some big story That's not true But can I ask can I ask that when you give these pay when you when you put pamphlet out 48 hours Like if you put out 48 hours pamphlets, is that a disadvantage because now we know no, yes It is a disadvantage. We yes, it's a huge disadvantage Give text and a chance. He does have a soft mic go ahead text No, I was I was going to say that no what he's saying is not true Israel is indiscriminately bombing you go online people are even live streaming there are people live streaming this on social media of The utter destruction and tragedies that are happening. It's just all over the place. Don't pay attention You don't understand that's not indiscriminate. They're hitting targets and they're direct targets and they are guided bombs They're not dumb bombs and they also do something called roof knocking where they drop these dumb bombs first Not dumb bombs They're they're not explosive and they they land and they shake the building and they let everybody know That it's going to get hit and so everybody leaves then they hit it I acknowledge everything that drunk you just said used to threaten us even after all all those points people still die right? You there's Why are no other wars in this world held in this standard like Syria? Not Well, I just I just I just want to put forward like my main concern Hold on guys. I'm starting to mute some mics. Uh-huh. We're getting too like people people with strong mics They're literally just talking over other people. I need you guys to respect respect I know you just please don't make me do my job. I want to be lazy. I'm gonna unmute the mics Let's just really respect Everyone's afraid to turn you're all back on No, I think uh Texan's a little being on a little bit here about what israel's doing and He's a good kid. I I I think he's smart and everything but I think you're just being a little misled on that Well, there's a practical issue here. I mean israel Can't literally bomb the gauze strip from one end to the other that they don't have enough bombs So they have to be judicious and where they're bombing so they they're forced They're forced to be something Beyond purely indiscriminate, but the the thing is about bombs is as brandon our brandon has told us Is that they destroy a whole building they're they They're not granular enough to avoid massive unintended casualties And brandon just so you know, your mic is not coherent And I also want to point out Which I have before but just to Texan to consider this that If if israel cannot fight hamas because there'll be civilian casualties. Well, then hamas has devised the most perfect military strategy ever and They will defeat israel. That's not what I said, though. You guys don't understand. I can't defeat israel If you shouldn't have watched this huge bomb campaign They should have did a grounding vision from day one because that way they can invade these tunnels where the actual terrorists are Because right now they're not killing terrorists these what's the point of targeting these places on these buildings destroy people's homes if If the terrorists aren't even in there It's just innocent people there and these leaflets don't do anything because I mean you're you're jumping a leaflet in a Power sleeve. Where are they gonna flee you nowhere? Left or right there's games are on both sides. They can't flee anywhere. It's a waste of time It's a waste of paper save the trees Explained they could flee there are safe zones This is a carbon neutral issue It's all Hamas is blocking the exits for palestinians Do you think it's like So what's the pure speculation on all of our parts pure speculation? What do you think? What do you think though? We have pure speculation. What do you think? I have no idea. Uh, maybe uh, Like 80 20 there's probably a lot of civilians dying for every Hamas. Okay, okay So my only argument is Hamas wouldn't have it any other way, right? No, no No, there there are options that can be made and we have not yet to discuss that my point what I want to get to is It's it's a math game there are Uh, 41 percent. We're we're children like we talked about earlier, right? Only so many more beyond that age group For every bomb you drop, right? You might get one two Hamas and then you got to do a You know radius around that person and how many civilians are there, right? Is the 80 20? Is it 60 40? Either way, it's going to be a lot of onesies coming out of buildings, right? It's unavoidable I'm for a ceasefire because a ceasefire is it makes it avoidable ceasefire will just make it avoidable for uh A week a month which is where I would argue next point, but we haven't gotten that far Same thing Can we get a talking wand or have you Go one the wand or something because this ain't working No, I mean, I feel like it's working pretty good. It's brandon's up next. I mean, I see his hand waved, but an atlas would be fine, dude It's okay. Okay guys. Um, so I'm gonna go ahead and like roll out So I'm gonna like do a short little closing here on this subject. Um, so Uh, basically to sum up my whole thing about this like I've said, um, a ground invasion would be Uh Better in my opinion than the bombing campaign because humans can see threats better Um, I do want to point out that a couple of times people have like brought up the nazis and that Palestinians are just nazis And the the rhetoric seems to kind of be just to go ahead The the rhetoric seems to be just to go ahead and wipe them out. Um, but we didn't do that. We didn't do that to the germans Um, so we we you know rooted out the nazis, but but we kept the germans around um Now we granted granted we still have military bases in germany But that's no longer to keep them in check. That's because they're an ally of ours There's no reason to keep them in check because we didn't allow them to have a military Um, but to your friend and to your point. Sorry When we when we destroyed not when we took out hitler I don't know if last dance can help me on this one or not, but The The destruction of their leader Was what destroyed that movement right after that it fell out. Whereas Can we destroy hamasa's leadership or is that whole concept not even possible? No, but you can destroy hama you can destroy hamasa's entire reason to be able to uh, uh, recruit um, so generations though Okay, okay. This is this is me closing out. I'm about to leave so I'm gonna make my last point and then I'm gonna be gone I take care, man In order in order to stop terrorism. You don't just kill the the fathers and the sons of The people that you believe may be terrorist because you a lot of times get innocent people Those innocent people the survivors then decide that they want to get retribution and that continues the cycle The only way to stop this is to try and work out a piece the the people that have tried to make peace for years on both sides have been Eliminated as in like the isria the israelis Killed their people that were trying to make peace and the palestinians killed their people that were trying to make peace So there are factions that don't want peace, but we need to try and make sure that there is a peace That's my that's my uh whole point on this and i'm gone. Good night. I'm in. I'm in brother. Yeah. Yeah, that's the most rational tank That's a rational take Uh, I he was fact. I don't think he's correct on a lot of stuff. He said but okay I mean, he said that the people who want peace on both sides the israeli took it like what's he talking about like Ariel He's talking about his talk rubbing being essentially I gotta get going Data I gotta get going. So I want to make a closing. So is that all right? Go ahead man All right, so so basically it's summer out This has been going on for decades. We all know that the longer the war goes on the thousands Like like thousand years Yeah, well, whatever you put it the current formation has been going on for decades And we all know and right now the longer the bombings go on The the the less than inside so the fact is we have to be very smart and strategic on what is causing this in the first place In my opinion that has to be a four-hour strategic plan to try and put a long-term solution for israel and palestine Because we cannot just bomb our way out of it, you know, because Hey, like if they're gonna fight over the ant hill let them fight over I thought it was his last comment I'm still I'm still going okay. I'm still going Just finish buddy. You got it like the fact is We you may be able to get rid of the infrastructure We may be able to get rid of the leadership But the one thing that actually keeps it going is the ideology the mindset So it's important. We have to look at the mindset of what makes them think What makes them feel What makes them believe This is the reason why the war we have to figure out a long-term solution Bombing is just a short term. We need the long term and that's what I can say All right, thanks for joining tonight, dude Agreed no problem. No problem guys. It's very it's very hectic but um and very passionate, you know, but um It was fun. You know it was very fun I think we are gonna wrap it up this portion in the stream rw All right. Um, we can keep debating other topics, but I'm gonna wrap stream because I'm guys I'm just like wasted the not alcohol. Just the kids destroy me every day Anyway, I'm gonna be going. I'll see you later All right guys. Um, so Bye guys I'm not sure if we like really reached the consensus. What's up? Go ahead, dude You had a you had a new kid lately, right? Or are they just getting Uh, she's six months old. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, I remember right I I was just curious. That's all And the kids have been having nightmares from horror movie month Good job dad Can't can't sympathize with you here, man. Um The there I'm surprised how many people were on both sides tonight I I thought that there would be a lot more people that wanted to see the eradication of uh terrorism and that type of front, but I appreciate that both Sides of the mindset came here tonight and shared their thoughts And I hope that when it came to the main debate topic, uh, everybody enjoyed that experience Even though there was a bit lively at times. I didn't want to step in and uh I don't know if you guys have any final thoughts you want to say I mean now's the time and then I'm happy to move into more topics or or do something else Well, I feel that of course we all want the eradication of terrorism But I also feel like that's like asking for world peace or to end world hunger. I don't think it's Possible I don't think it's an achievable I think the achievable aspect is Gaza being absorbed by Israel and pushing out that So so a one-state solution you think you think a one-state solution in this in this Yeah, but then all it's going to do is push the war to a different border Yes, so What about a two-state solution, which is what the government currently is advocating for? What do you think about that where that's where gaza it runs itself? Well, and there's no more problem. It may not be gaza. It could be the west bank It could be other lands. It would be have to be negotiated There have been various versions that have been appealed, you know, brokered even the horrendous Most recent trump one. When was that in 2019 that garbage one? Hamas said today that if they took control of jerusalem, they would be advocating for a two-state solution Yeah I don't know. I said to me what pops into my mind are two things when they say peace peace then comes sudden destruction Is one and the other one is a house divided against itself cannot stand. So I mean, I like the idea of multiple countries run by multiple people and everybody getting along but It just seems that where do you draw the line though, right? So like he could say that about israeli could say about jordan that's its neighbor or egypt, you know, it's other I want you guys to to try to do one thing try to localize this If you literally I don't know where you guys live if you're in the boonies like I used to live or Somewhat in the city like I do now If you had neighbors if you had beef with your neighbors How would you settle it? So what I'm getting at is if my neighbor is a zombie, I'm gonna shoot him in the face Has has nothing to do with me Over there in that country I'm going to defend my house my city in my country first before in that order. Yeah, and you know In that order, correct. Yeah, I mean I appreciate that and when your neighbor comes to you and does something to you depending on the level of that Thing you'll respond in kind eye for an eye type. I'm guessing correct All depends what happens. I'm a very very nice. I'm a very nice person dude. So yeah, it depends on the person It's why it's a nuanced debate When it comes to literally what's happening in israel with the ceasefire with gaza, so what what I'm saying is that your neighborhood But all right folks, uh, I think we're gonna hood and wrap this up for tonight This debate can just keep going and going and going and I frankly I am worn out It's been a really busy day and uh, I have another one tomorrow So I'm going to cut it here. Uh, you're welcome to come to discord and continue the discussion Which I believe is going to keep going head on over here. The link is in the description and uh, thanks for watching I'll see you all in the next one