 So welcome everyone. I apologize for being a couple minutes late and kicking this off, but it is my great honor To be here today with Colonel Ingrid Gehrge I pop my Norwegian is not what my grandparents would hope and Limited to Norwegian food mostly If people try to give you lutefisk don't take it rumigritt lefse that stuff's pretty good But avoid the lutefisk if you can my personal advice, but you probably feel differently anyway Really terrific to have her here with us today. She's an extremely Accomplished woman and combat leader at multiple levels in many different environments Lebanon Kosovo Most recently led Norwegian forces in Afghanistan She is I believe about to assume command of essentially their National Defense University the first female to do that And we particularly were interested in having her because I think she can really help us Better understand some of the challenges that we are about to undertake in more broadly integrating women specifically into the combat arms Which is something that or we didn't have been doing for a couple of decades Or more and and so they have addressed all the edit a very different scale Some of the challenges that that we are about to undertake and so We thought that it would be a great opportunity to have her Talk to us about some of the experiences that they have had and that she herself has had To help that inform inform that debate in that evolution here at home And also I think for us to better understand some of the differences and where we might not be able to straight-line extrapolate from From what Norway has done into our culture. So again greatly honored to have you and so happy that you took the time We ran her around the Pentagon Yesterday where she had lots of meetings with folks who are trying to deal with that issue in the services and in the Office of Secretary Defense So we put her through one ringer and she is back again this morning for more so Again grateful and and really looking forward to the conversation We want to make a couple of remarks and then we'll open it up to the audience for a broader discussion With issues we're gonna talk about today. I Want to share some of my personal experiences and I mainly And In Norway all And Today we have about Indian forces The main argument Yeah, this is better isn't it I'm sorry Yeah, I think then the main arguments for increasing the number and also having female in in the combat positions is that We can't afford recruiting from only half of the population We need the best brains and the best bodies for for this work and therefore we need to recruit from women as well We also think diversity is important for an organization to succeed and women contribute to this diversity To have a more innovative culture where you see issues from different angels and Also, the last issue is that some of the tasks we or many of the tasks we do as units We can't handle them without having women in the units I can talk about information gathering building trust among among a local population where half are women or children and And and also practical issues like searching women or or house searching and such things and I was the young Platinum commander in Lebanon I was the only one in the platoon and we were told never to search women and I and that was special because we knew that Women were also smuggling weapons and explosives which meant our unit didn't do our job Because we left the women to search Personally, I've been in the infantry for for more than 20 years and With very few exceptions I have felt like that my comrades my my leaders and my troops have appreciated me as As the soldiers for the job I've done and For the dedication for my service and for my country and My experience with women in combat positions is that they are in general Regarded as part of the unit similar to their married male colleagues I Can't think of a single issue where I wasn't able to do my job due to my gender And I'm very very often asked about this working in Lebanon or in Afghanistan Negotiating with the local leaders and so on would they trust would they would they accept Negotiating with a female commander and that That has not been an issue because I I don't like to compare myself with Madeline or Albright or Hillary Clinton or these women, but you see women Representing their country or their unit are not regarded as the local women They are regarded as women with power. We represent Military power or economic power or other kinds of power, which means the elderly in Afghanistan Would meet me and I felt I was treated like another officer Of course with respect in the way you you greet each other and so on and I've seen that with other women and And I think I've seen numerous examples where My sister in SAR in arms do come closer to the local population due to our Gender or the sex Because you can talk to to local women So So that's part of it. I guess you also have heard Lots of myths what I call myths about women for instance that Women change the morale in the units, which means that if we are in a tough situation our male comrade in arms will Be so focused on caring for their female troops or comrades and I've never seen this myself under the bus. Hmm. They'll throw you under the bus. Yes No, I haven't seen anything. Oh wait, I think as Military we are so focused that we're as we're operating that the focus is doing the job And of course we take care of each other But but I can't see that there is a big difference between men and women in that manner The last thing I will mention is Before we go to questions and answers there is the concerns about the physical abilities of women and I have to underline the fact that there there are differences and and even if we are in 2013 with Modern technology mechanized units being in the infantry or in the combat positions is physically hard so We have to have requirements which make those who Who joined the units Able to succeed and to do their job That's important. I hear some arguments that well now. It's technology. The technology doesn't really mean we need physical Standards, but but we absolutely do So my main mess master message today is that Yes, we can integrate women successfully. The most important thing is leadership To succeed in this we need Leaders who inspire and support both their female and male Subordinates We need leaders that are able to build healthy cultures within their units and Finally, we do need leaders who do not tolerate harassment of any kind also Regardless of gender. I do not think there is any reason to fear Big crowds of women joining your combat positions or making bait big changes overnight and I think we have to deal with lots of myths But when that said, I really wish the US good luck with with an important job that will take time Namely integrating the women in the combat positions Well, thank you for those opening thoughts there. I'm sure lots and lots of questions out here. I want to start with a couple One of which is about the experience that you have had with retaining females because that's been one of our biggest challenges even outside the combat arms that Female soldiers tend to get out at much higher rates than their male counterparts at at around eight to ten years and And There are a lot of different There's a lot of research about why that happens, but we haven't found a set of policy solutions to try to affect that I'm wondering how if you have the same challenge how you have dealt with it and And what your experience has been personally and with respect to that issue Yeah, we have the same challenge. We have a hard time retaining women and in particular in the time where Where they give birth or or family settles is it's hard to combine career and being a mother or or part of a family and And I think it's important that we have flexible systems at the time we give birth. That's very often When you are a Platoon or a company commander. It's also very often at the time you take your command and staff college and of course deployments and if you have very set standards when it comes to age for this kind of positions or Or education and so on it will be hard So I think we need and we work on that back home to be a little more flexible we also Have a very long maternity leave in our way one-year maternity leave very often a split between the father and And the mother Which means it's a little easier to deal with deployments and so on because we know at least we can stay home for at least one Year, but again, we have to organize within every unit and in our system to make sure that There is possible it is possible to combine these things and and I think we have made Progress, but we still have a way to do to go and these days also our male colleagues are much more Interested in Being part of their family taking part of raising their children and so on So this is not a typical female issue. It's actually a family issue for military families and Let me also ask about mentoring one of the things that we're trying to deal with is if you don't have Hires who are females? How do you mentor the new women coming in? and So you were relatively early in women coming into the Norwegian force So presumably you didn't have a lot of female mentors at least For a while and and probably not that many ever I would imagine What is your thought on How to best Provide that mentoring and can you talk about what mentoring you had that was meaningful given the absence of it or presumed absence of it? I don't Well, we're going back to leadership. I think we have to build strong leaders with integrity who are able to handle both Male and female subordinates or or peers So that has to be part of their leadership Education how to deal with mentoring Both sexes or or other people with different background That's part of it And I have had some very strong leaders who have believed in me and who have supported me male leaders And I have felt very confident because I feel they have seen me for what I do and I'm not As the woman in combat when that said I also think there is nobody who could understand my thoughts and Maybe challenges as good as another female officer as I didn't have many of the Those who were in front of me At least I didn't know the few very well, but But for instance the little group we were four women in my military academy as I was a cadet and we're still Very close after more than 20 years because those are the ones who really understand Some of the hardship of some of the issues when that said it hasn't been that tough but but that means a lot to me and I think when I think it's tougher to be an Enlisted or a younger officer than an experienced officer as I am Which means that I think in the units we we should try to find other role models Both both men but also women who could Be a person they could use as a mentor or get some extra support if there are Particular issues dealing with with gender but but but we we shouldn't just point that the other women This is mainly a leadership responsibility Regardless of gender to take care of your subordinates Okay Other if there are questions out there, I would love to entertain them and if not I have I could talk you for three or Four hours, so Questions Yes Ray Dubois CSIS Colonel in the United States Army. We've managed to break the glass ceiling That United States Army was the first of our services to have a four-star female General and Dunwoody who commanded the Army material command today We have our deputy chief of staff G2 Mary Leger three-star Have they broken have you broken their glass ceiling in Norway become a general officer? Yes, we have You know we we are It's a small army and small defense, but we have a few generals We have two Navy generals and we have one army general We still do not have anyone with the so-called Combat position background, but but within logistic or administrative Which means they are absolutely broke in the glass ceiling and I think for me and my sister since arms at my level I do not see any glass ceiling If I'm When I think about my future career, it's the question about my skills and competence, but not my gender that's my My impression But when that said we we have issues there are women in the Norwegian forces that feel that we have a glass ceiling and I think it's tougher on particular levels and So so this is an issue we absolutely work on when we are competing there are always discussions whether You are given a position due to your yeah, what's the reason for being Selected or not I'm Bill Nahr with joint special operations University a kernel. Can you talk about standards? You know we talk about gender neutral or gender norm gender norm standards and and and how do you deal with standards within within your service? Yeah, I better be a little careful here because that's that's a hot topic back home and the fact is that we have Diverse standard for women men and women as we As the general standards and there is the discussion whether this should be changed at this and it seems like the Navy and the Air Force now will have Same standard for everyone, but the army still will have a difference Personally as I mentioned in the very beginning. It's very important for me that the girls we select or those who come into the Every branch actually not only the combat branch, but that I have the right skills and competences for Doing their jobs, which means that I think it might be the right thing to at least have Standards for particular jobs or units Which means that you make sure that you have kind of that the baseline when that said We have different standards in general, but when it comes to training, it's exactly the same So when you go through the courses And all the field training which really is what shows if you're able to do your job and not I can run the two Miler without the problem beating my many of my male colleagues But am I able to carry the heavy burden the rucksack the field operations? And and when it comes to this training, it's exactly the same for men and women and even in my unit I've had several both male and women who have had no problem with with the general standards, but we have had to They haven't been able to Continue because they haven't managed the practical Job or or the training programs Okay, I have a question about whether as we are at the at the start of this in In the combat arms, are there things that you think Challenges that we don't necessarily think much about right now that we might see emerge in three to five years that I'm thinking in particular about things Because of the intense physical nature of combat arms training in particular We don't have an experience base for what the long-term physical demands of that might result in So that is something I think could emerge as a challenge down the road Hypothetically, but so I'm just wondering if there are things that you Can't anticipate for us that we may not be able to see very well right now Mainly when it comes to the physical well, not just us not necessarily only physical but Cultural or anything else or what's what stage two of this look like for us in your experience? Oh as I mentioned I don't think there is a big difference between integrating women to combat positions and other positions, which means the US has lots and lots of experience with women in every branch and Really have been into the very toughest situation and the risk level In war so so you really have some some experience and If I should be concerned it must be that that It takes time You can't be too impatient in racing the number or or or really succeeding and It takes time to build healthy culture to to the extent that there is image issues or People who are reluctant to seeing women within their Within their unit that will be take time to change I think Because even in Norway we have had women in since 84 we it's a very egalitarian society But still we have to have continuous focus on how we deal with with gender perspectives and leadership Thank you very much one little comment and one question To yeah, I'm calling KB from I'm the defense attache of the Senegalese embassy I congratulate you for the presentation and The comment You know I see one limit in integrating is a female in the combat units The limit is specifically a general problem mainly during the pregnancy of The women I think that is something that jeopardize the participation of The women in the combat units that is a main problem The risk is An emotional level During the Vietnam war the body count was a real problem and had I think some implication in the American opinion and Maybe that is what make it is said that That is what made America lost to the war because always they were counting the dead is a dead When it happens that the female soldier is killed. I think the emotion is higher and in during the war time, I think maybe that will be That will have a negative impact I mean in the combat in the opinion of the population but my question is I Would like to know how You are managing the problem of marriage marriage between two soldiers in the different categories Is a soldier allowed to marry an officer or vice versa? Thank you very much If I can make a quick comment, I mean, I think there's a difference between Many women have lost their lives in the Afghanistan conflict and and I think and in Iraq and I it's interesting to me that we don't talk about that I mean we talk about Those who lost their lives, but we don't make a distinction publicly at any It doesn't that distinction doesn't seem to resonate now So I would just offer that as a counterpoint to what might have happened in Vietnam But anyway, no, and that's the same experience. I have when we have that wounded or issues I really can't see the difference in the emotional approach to it Whether it's a woman or a man, but I guess that's also because when you have well-trained units with strong cohesion your Comrade or a sister and brother in arms more than more than a woman or a man out fighting And I am also Discussed this with IDF. I listened to a psychologist in Israel's Israeli defense force and I think and he said that There it's a myth what is said about the Israeli experience that they took their women out because It was not good for the morale of the the male Part of the Jewish forces That's at least what he told and my experience, but it might be cultural differences here And so I should be careful about Stating something in general Pregnancy very short. Yes women get pregnant and it's not a big problem in the Norwegian forces maybe because we are we are small and Just like one can be sick or there can be other reasons for Being taken out of the unit for a while or not deploying with the unit we handle the pregnant one in my unit we will replace them at the time they are not able to do their regular job and When they are back from their maternity leave They consider if they continue here or if there are other jobs that are more Yeah, it fits them better so so that can be handled I think When it comes to marriage or relationships between soldiers and officers, we have some policies of course just like most nations Within the unit it's You really have to avoid having Couples but depends on what kind of unit and what level I think so when we have relationships within the platoon or Company and it happens no one then then I will talk to those We're dealing with and and separate them We we put one of them into another unit and and that's works quite well and because as every other organization You can't avoid having relationships when we stayed for many years and when it comes to relationships within the Within the line That's not acceptable you cannot as an officer have a relationship with With a subordinate But what's important for me before we had very strict rules when it came to this and who said it's not legal Do don't don't don't and there were lots of things going on Lots of rumors not lots of issues with this now we try to change to a more That to find good solution for every part of these issues in order to Make this an open issue where you where the ones in relationships Tell their commanders and we deal with it to find the best solution for those involved If I could follow on to that that topic briefly and ask about dual service couples and how you Manage those I mean we I think have changed our policies fairly significantly over the last 10 to 15 years to really try to better accommodate dual service couples It's always a challenge given the scale that we face and particularly when they're in multiple services, but How what's your approach to that you do you have a lot of them and how do you try to manage that? That is you we have a number of them and I'm I'm one myself. Yes, so I'm married to another officer and and again It's a question about finding good solutions for the couple and I think the Norwegian Army and defense in general is good at this. They will always give us The same location for our service. We will make sure that we're not within Yeah, it worked too close, but but it's worked very well for us and when it comes to deployment I think we we can influence very much when we deploy more than many US US Officers or units which means that Me and my husband wouldn't deploy at the same time. We're different units and one one time It's him and and another one me and of course you have to Sacrifice a little when you are a military couple and it's a very good thing to have some good grandparents for the kids to make everything Work well because it is tough to to handle career for two And I know some of some of you have met my husband in the military Academy my house Wife last year and I can really recommend having your husband at home for year Making dinner and taking care of the kids son. So he's really tried that part as well When you go into your future position as the commander of the Defense University Do you I'm just curious about whether you think your gender will affect how you do that job at all in the sense of are there I Don't think directly necessarily But are there things that you think you will bring to that position that are a little bit different because you're female Have to correct you a little because I'm commander of the military Academy. Sorry. Okay, and and I've already started yeah, and I'm not sure how it will affect that's really hard for me to answer Because I'm there to do a job and I do not have the Gender focus more than I shouldn't have it more than any other commander would have I'm a commander of Every cadet which means I want to develop strong leaders regardless of gender But it is important for me that our leaders Are able to handle gender issues both Concerning women in the armed forces, but also handling gender issues when it comes to operating in Afghanistan or elsewhere So so I don't know if they will see a big difference I think it's important for some of the young female cadets to have a female role model But but my focus is doing my very best to build a strong Officer core for the future and not in particular dealing with this gender issues. Yeah, I just was curious about whether you thought because of because you're female and you Interpret your experiences. We I think we interpret them differently than men do, you know Whether that would have a whether there would be a difference in how you would do the same job You know, I've been a commander and and and an officer for For a very long time in a very masculine society So it's hard for me to answer whether I represent something entirely different than my male colleagues I think other people who would have to answer that question when that said we we need the Diversity and that's what's so good about the military system that we have our leaders for a few years Then there are other leaders coming in with other perspectives and I'm sure I will contribute to bring other Perspectives into the military Academy, but but I can't answer how much part of that is Because I'm a woman or not, but probably some Kind of good morning. My name is Paul tenant. I'm a British Army exchange officer working in a Pentagon I'd like to ask you about risk. It strikes me that The closer one gets to the highest intensity combat The risk implicit in females being engaged in those activities Increases and some of the risks are of course outside the control of the female It's not just a question of physical capabilities or indeed mental stability or emotional stability It's as much to do with the fact that we can't always predict. We cannot predict how some of your male counterparts might react particularly in the most extreme of intense combat experiences What I'm wondering is have you personally had any very intense combat experience Which you could draw on to give us the benefit of the lessons that you've extracted from those and and Even if I could ask you to try and project beyond the limits of your own combat experience To anticipate some of those risks and perhaps give some guidance as to how one might head them off at the past so to speak That's a little hard to answer because I can talk about Situations we haven't had hard fighting over days and weeks But I've been into very risky situation with firing or grenade shelling and so on Which means I should be careful and experience with one or two women if that is We could generalize out from that so from from what I've seen And also in the weeks and forces we've been operating in in Lebanon since 78 and Vulcans Iraq Afghanistan So we've had some Yeah several women in in the very tough situations, but But I think American and other forces have much more experience with with Fighting over time. So we have to be careful with Comparing but from the situations I've seen I haven't seen a big difference and and we have women in different Positions and we've also seen that from other branches In Afghanistan we as I was the commander some one of the units who had the most tough the situation was actually At some time the the medical Patoon for some reason they were stopped that again and again and again and they had they had several women So so we didn't really see That that made a change to the morale, but I would be careful about Generalizing and I think it's important to To have research and and look at these Issues of course and we have limited research on this because the the numbers are so small and There are more situations than fighting over time Let me ask a little bit about lodging and cohabitation and Both in deployed environments and then back home in garrison and And your experience with What kinds of distinctions you think might be important to make in those different kinds of environments Facilities and things that's what you mean. Yeah, that's also a hot topic back home or at least an issue We're dealing with when we are in field both exercises and operations There aren't any differences. We sleep in the same tents. We do not have specific facilities for women or men We're dealing well. What's discussed back home is whether we should for the conscripts have Women and men sharing rooms sharing sharing facilities every every unit has facilities where we can have separation when it comes to hygiene and Bedrooms and all this but but many of the girls Feel that they are a little excluded from their platoon or unit as we separate them and therefore we have tried in specific units to have mixed rooms and Most of the girls this is voluntary But most do it and most of the girls report very positively back on it When that said I am a little reluctant myself and I did not allow mixed rooms in my own unit That's a battalion and that was mainly several reasons for instance we tried to recruit Immigrants and would that be Okay for a Muslim woman or other cultures. I think we're yeah, and and the other issues is that We we do not have a lot of sexual harassment in the Norwegian army but of course that's also an issue that's coming up now and then and the Issues I had in my units were usually from weekends Where they were out drinking and partying and you had some of these Hard cases and I thought if I had mixed rooms that might be worse But some of the girls will say no when you have mixed rooms. You are more like brothers and sisters and and the the male in the room will be more Caretaking than Than a threat So so I do not have the best answer but But I think some privacy is good for both sexes when you are in On post or basis Well not to be a little indelicate here and on but We have had a fair amount of research on Particularly for females in deployed environments health challenges for female health issues and lack of familiarity for male medical officers and how necessarily to Treat and prevent some female health problems Downrange and deployed environments and I'm just wondering have you had issues like that sort of female deployed medical Problems I Can't think of specific female medical problems. No, I mean again, I apologize for this Urinary tract infections and things like that that women tend to get at higher rates When they're deployed then then men do and and feeling uncomfortable going to talk to male medical officers or feeling like you don't get The appropriate treatment or things like that But that's not been no, it's not been a big issue and and in our medical platoons there are always women women and men which means they can always talk to a At least in the bigger operations life. I like Afghanistan. There is always a female nurse They can talk to if there there are specific issues Gender related issues, I think Good morning, ma'am. Captain. Well, I see it's my quarry work at TBS Quick question for you when you went through your infantry training So what's human commander? What were the major challenges that you you saw either in your subordinates trying to integrate a female? Maybe you're for the first time or through your peers just any challenges that you may have faced you can share with us From from integration is specifically within your infantry. Yes. Yes, ma'am. Yeah Yeah, yeah, it was opened up in 84 and I joined a few years later So so I didn't see the very first one come in but I've been the first one to a couple of units myself and Of course, there are always people questioning So so I I felt a little bit myself and I've seen many of my sisters in arms that feel that you have to You have to do a little bit better Because if you do something that's not good as a female It will be generalized for for all women. So you feel a responsibility for for the other women and And I Don't know if it should be like this, but but I really felt that you Since you at least you think people are questioning whether you are able to do the job As good as a man you will all the time feel a little bit of pressure to Convince that you're You have the right background or Have the capabilities, so I think that's That the main Challenge for most women being the first ones are one of the few Using their ways to alleviate some of that pressure or is it just that's just the way it is. I Think this is very much about leadership again I think you have to have strong leaders who see their subordinates and and Are supportive and that's not only Regarding the women. It's the same with male that they They Support in their way they talk about you that when there are rumors They are hard that this and that they build strong cohesion Talk a lot about what does it mean within a unit and the importance about strong cohesion? that that will Better the situation for for the women, but I also think that Yeah, you have you have the questions about critical mass and and it in particular as an enlisted I think it's quite tough being the single one. I I think that's easier for me as an officer because you have the respect for for your ranks and and I know my peers respect me because they've been through the same training and the same academies and so on but for an Enlisted coming from the civilian society into this quite masculine environment that can be quite hard and therefore It's an advantage if at least you have a few women together. So they feel That they have someone to talk to our discuss if they If there are issues The question Sorry, good morning. I'm Kelsey Campbell. I'm from office secretary defense and my questions on the support of the population Because any major policy change you have to have the population on board? And I see that Norway consistently ranks very high on the global gender equality index America's down in the mid to late 20s So I was wondering if you had any advice for us policy makers NGOs advocacy groups to communicate to the population the importance of diversity and inclusion as a Helping our operational success not just something that opens opportunity, but it's vital for the mission. Thank you. Yeah Again, I think that the leaders must be clear here because it's it's you're right about the Norwegian society I also mentioned in the beginning it is a very very egalitarian society and for many years we have had For instance in our government Approximately half of them have been women. We have had five Female secretary of defense. So we have very many top top leaders both in business but also in in public affairs And and those are role models and I think they make it easier for us within the military or in another organization To be appreciated and to see these advantages, but these military leaders have been very now those political leaders have been very clear continuously about the importance of of increasing the numbers of women When it comes to the military leaders, there has been a change throughout the years I've been in the service because in the very beginning I I had impressed that they were always talking about the importance of women for for the welfare of the unit or for the For the morale and such things, but these days the middle social good for social good Yeah, that's at least what we felt and I think that was expression Now and then but but the leaders I see today both at top level and also throughout the ranks See more of the advantage of diversity To build innovative Innovative organizations, they see it from the operations if you're gonna deal with the population in Afghanistan or elsewhere you you have to have women to communicate and And I know and also other reasons So so I think we've seen a change there and I think part of the reason is that we have seen that women actually contribute we Operational effectiveness but I wouldn't take it too far and I would be careful with talking about the specific shares because I think more important than Increasing number of women is the way you build your leaders again regardless of gender if you have male leaders who are Yeah, have this values and integrity they That they can also very well handle lots of or make sure we have Strong good units There was a question over here in the middle Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you general. Thank you so much for your wonderful presentation My name is Rosemary Segele. I'm an unprofited organization though My late husband was a USM Marine my question is how do you Deal with the women and the military who come out of the combat or the military out of The mill how do what is your system? Do you follow up with them to they get jobs or? How do they live after leaving the military or they are just there out there? Civilians and no attention as people who serve to your country as those who served our country here in the United States I'm trying to build a take care for the elderly veterans who serve the country where they can come Say to relax and meet each other for network. What is your system in Norway looking at and what can you tell the world women? Who are in military like you? How to move on with life after military or in the military? Thank you Yeah, here we have totally different systems and when it comes to handling veterans I think we have a lot to learn to learn from the US because we are working very hard to To be better at handling our veterans or those who have served For many years we always focused on our Second world war veterans, but I think we we partly forgot all the veterans from From our time Now this is changing. We have built up veteran affairs we have are one of our top generals who's been head of this and Really made both the civilian and the military society much better at focusing on it But we have still a long way to go. So I'm glad you brought this up because this is so important For our society and also to recruit for the military to see that we take care of our Veterans as they leave the force One more question Hey morning, I'm the time of Colonel Gordon Miller. I'm from the Marine Corps We went to the Army War College together. So this is kind of a re-attack one question I have with your conscription force one are women required to serve Because in the United States selective service, it's not and two Do you allow reclassification? Like you said a woman gets pregnant She's finished she decides she doesn't no longer want to be in the infantry Is that part of the flexibility that the Norwegian system provides for and is that? Able to be transferred to the mail as well Can a male soldier decide to get out of the infantry if he doesn't like it anymore? Yeah first conscription we We've had conscriptions for very many years in the second world war But we opened Female conscription this year. So we hardly have any experience. It was strong political support to to have conscription for women and But we do not need The numbers Only one third of our male population do their service due to what we need and when we now will have the women as well We are actually curious how many are motivated and because it's a luxury problem We can really pick the very best and it's it's still very popular to serve which means That we have a very good mass of Unconscripted so quick question about that Because you recruit some from your conjugate population Was the opening of conscription to females also intended to broaden the female recruiting pool Absolutely because a few years ago We said that the women has to come in for a day to get information because I think that's the main challenge in Recruiting more women to the armed forces that they don't know it. Yeah, they don't know their opportunities so we've worked hard to inform more and And conscription will contribute to at least they start Reflecting on maybe this is something for me and maybe a military career. It's good, but it's also it's also a matter of Same opportunities But also same obligations in a society. We have lots of advantages as Women in Norway, but then we also have to to take the hardship and So that's part of it when it comes to Pregnancy and change of branches. We very seldom see Officer and listed change branches. It is possible But but we don't have many who do because there are always staff positions or office positions within every branch So I haven't heard that as a big issue, but but it is an important question because we lose very many of In particular women, but but also men as they get to the point where they set Have children and an established families Okay, I'll engage it. Thank you so much for sharing your time with us for your service and for your inspiration We very much appreciate it. We think thank you for Coming in helping to educate us as we make our way forward in this area and we hope to continue the conversation Thank you. Thank you. I Wish you good luck