 Thank you and welcome to the nonprofit show. We have Jack Alotto back. He was here with us on Monday to kick off the nonprofit Power Week with Fundraising Academy. And today we get to have Jack back in the hot seat for the full episode talking with us about that gatekeepers key. And the first question we're gonna ask, so heads up Jack is like, who the heck is the gatekeeper anymore? So that's a great question. And most people think of the gatekeeper as that receptionist or that admin assistant or the executive assistant. But in my experience, gatekeepers could be family members. In fact, we'll hold that thought because we wanna drill down. You know, we've got some like housekeeping to do. So hold that thought because we wanna get to this. There's so much to cover and we are so grateful of course to have the support of our presenting sponsors that allow us to cover these amazing topics and really dive deep into these conversations because they are ever changing and we again are just so extremely grateful of the support of each and every one of our sponsors, including Fundraising Academy for this Power Week. Hashtag non-profit power. So if you do post anything, please do use that. And of course I'm glad to have Julia Patrick with me here. Julia is the CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. I'm your non-profit nerd, Jared Ransom, also CEO of a consulting firm that I started, The Raven Group. And so today we have Jack and he is raring to go and I'm so excited because you really do have so much like depth and breadth of knowledge when it comes to philanthropy and this topic at large. So again, really going back to getting that gatekeepers key and how we might secure a meeting. So yeah, so yeah, go ahead Julia. So this is the thing. You know, I think some of us think that the gatekeeper is an old concept. But if you've ever tried to get a meeting even with somebody that you know or who has said, yeah, give me a call. Sometimes it's really hard. And so I wanna kick off really with this basic question to you and that is who is the gatekeeper? Who are the gatekeepers? What do they do so that that can kind of frame up? Yes, and you know, I have to apologize. You know, I didn't even, as a fundraiser I should know that the first thing you have to do is be grateful to your sponsors. But I'm so excited about this topic that I just wanted to sally forth right into it. So thank you guys for saying stop and take a breath. But who is the gatekeeper? So there are many people who serve as gatekeepers. There's the receptionist, the executive assistant, the admin assistant, and sometimes it's even a family member and I like to use this example. Suppose I am calling up Mrs. Ransom and I call her, she's a prospect and who gets on the phone but her 11 year old son? He's the gatekeeper. And he says to me, what do you wanna talk to my mom about? Who are you? What's the topic? He's this precocious 11 year old and he's kind of be that gatekeeper for his mom. So the point I'm trying to make here is the gatekeeper could be so many different people. And one of our jobs is to recognize and work with that gatekeeper. So I love that you used me as an example and my son as an example because that very well could happen. He's typically playing Minecraft or something on my phone and then the phone rings and he has been known to answer it. But even back before cell phones, I was the gatekeeper of my, in particular I'm gonna say my mom's agenda, right? As she has a very difficult name to pronounce and we always knew that if someone called and asked for her but did not know how to properly pronounce her name, then we would say, we're sorry, she's unavailable right now. Oh, that's right. I think that really goes to knowing your donor or your perspective donor, right? Literally knowing how to pronounce their name. Yes. And what you're saying here, which is so important and also such an integral part of the cost selling cycle is we have to build relationships with not only the prospect and the donor but the gatekeeper as well. Because the more we know about the prospect and the gatekeeper, the more likely we are to build a relationship with them. One of the things that I hear all the time that people think about gatekeepers is they say they're barriers to entry to that prospect or your mom or someone else. But really what we have to look at our gatekeepers as as bridges, they're the bridge to the prospect or the donor. In fact, they are one of the best ways for us to reach our prospect or donor. If I dismissed that 11 year old and said, look kid, just put your mother on. I'm not gonna get there. We're not gonna get there. He's going back to Minecraft for sure. Yeah, I mean, he's gonna say, hey, I'm not really interested in helping this guy because he is not doing something, you know, respecting me. One of the things, I think there are several things that we should do before we even call and have that gatekeeper answer. The first thing we have to know and we have to be able to articulate to the gatekeeper is why are you calling? Why are you calling this prospect or donor? What is your purpose? You have to know that before you even pick up the phone or go to their office. Know what your goal is with this call. Know how well or find out how well that gatekeeper knows our organization. We may have to introduce to the gatekeeper our mission, our vision, our values, the cause of our organization. The other thing I think which is really important and a lot of people overlook when they get into that mindset of working with that gatekeeper is listen and evaluate your telephone voice. Pitch, tone, volume, how fast you're gonna talk? All of those things are important for the gatekeeper. You wanna put them at ease. You want them to be the bridge as opposed to the barrier. Maybe that first impression, the right impression. Go ahead, I apologize. No, you're totally fine. I have a question and I feel like this has really come up more since COVID and so many people are using a calendar lead, right? If you wanna schedule time with me, I kind of feel like one of our modern time gatekeepers is that calendar link. Where do we find it? How do we get on it? And I know this is a curveball, Jack and I apologize, we didn't talk about this in advance but one, have you seen this and how might we work with this new trend that's happening? Right, and I'll tell you the whole calendar week or getting on someone's calendar, you have to be flexible. You have to be donor-centric, a term we use quite a bit. It has to be up to them. We have to make room. They don't have to make room for us. That's right. We have to make room for them. We have to accommodate their schedule. And if you have that mindset with the gatekeeper, understanding that he or she, that gatekeeper, they're gonna protect that prospect or donor's calendar. That's their role. That's their job. I've called up people and I've gotten this from the gatekeeper. May I ask what the purpose of this call is? Sure. Have an answer for those questions. You know, it's really an interesting thing because I love that you brought that up, Jared. Because I have found that for me and my busy schedule, those calendar that Calendly link is a lifesaver and I feel like it navigates a lot of busy schedules and I feel like it's really positive. But I've been reading more and more, especially on LinkedIn about people saying they really object to this and they think it's really negative in a lack of customer service. And I'm just like, are you kidding me? To me, this is like a godsend because then it gets everybody going forward. And so I think that's just kind of an interesting conversation to be thinking about as we move forward. Because I just think more and more people are going to be using this type of a portal. Absolutely, especially in, you know, all of us are so busy. And a lot of people do find it off-putting. But as far as it goes, as it relates to a prospect or donor and you're the fundraiser, it should never be off-putting to you, never. It should give you access. That's right. Part of this is what I'm hearing you talk about. It makes me think of the word mindset and that you really need to be thinking about, you know, bolstering your own ego and your sense of empowerment and excitement. I mean, you did something really interesting for those of you watching the show. We have our guests come on about 15 minutes early, we check their sound and their camera and all that. And, you know, you always ask how you're doing, how's it going, things of that nature. And, you know, Jack, you are super positive, you're excited, you're ready to go. And that mindset was really something I could feel across the miles. You know, it's really powerful. Yeah, and you could feel other things too when you're calling someone and the gatekeeper answers. They're gonna know if you're respectful and understanding of what their role is. And we have to be respectful. We have to understand that they have a responsibility and we have to honor that responsibility. We have to be friendly, but we shouldn't be fake. Yeah. Which, inauthenticity in fundraising is so easily detected. By those who see you as inauthentic are fake. You know, we have to be honest. If, what are we gonna say? Well, if they say what is the purpose of this call, tell them honestly. Tell them why you want to see the prospect or talk to the prospect. For example, I want to discuss with Dr. Patrick our efforts to end homelessness in our community. If that's your cause. By me saying that to the gatekeeper, I'm getting him involved and giving him an understanding of what I want to accomplish. And that's really important. Be personal. Try to get to know the interests and remember their name. You know, there's neurological evidence. Every time I say the word Julia or Jarrett, the neurons in the brains of those two in my cohort this morning, they fire. They like it. When people say my name, I like it. So use their name. Say their name. I'm calling Dr. Patrick John because I really want to tell him about or tell her about our efforts and homelessness. You know, remember this. This is such an important thing about gatekeepers. They can influence the decisions of the prospect or donor. If you're not respectful or you're not honest, they're not going to help you when they go into sit with Dr. Patrick. They're going to tell her that you were not respectful, that you were condescending or whatever. They have such influence that you have to sell them. They could very well do some of your work for you. If I treat John and I talk with John about, he might go into Dr. Patrick and say, you know, I just talked to this guy, Jack. He was telling me about the efforts and homelessness. It sounds really important work. He's on the phone. Would you like to talk with him, Dr. Patrick? That kind of thing. Build rapport. And this is true with everyone. That's what we do before the show started. We're trying to build rapport with each other. Be friendly. And again, I'm going to say it, but not fake. Yeah. Not fake. So many great tips. I love, I'm going to go back to knowing their name, you know? Sometimes, and then I'm going to use the example when someone answers the phone, they may say this is so-and-so's office and they may not say their name, but I think it's important to ask, right? Like, hey, I didn't catch your name. What was your name? I'd like to jot that down. So the next time I call, right? I think that's really important. And I'm just so appreciative that you said that. Every time I go to a restaurant and there's a name tag on a server, right? I do my best to catch their name. And I do think that I actually, you know, over time get better service because maybe those neurons are firing, as you said, Jack. Yeah. And you know, if you've called this same gatekeeper three times and every time you call them and say, I'm sorry, what was your name again? They're gonna say, this person doesn't care about me. Right. I've talked to them three times and they don't remember my name. And in fact, I would almost welcome them saying, you've talked to me three times and you don't remember my name. You know, I must not be an important piece of this thing you're trying to accomplish with my supervisor. That's right. And I was gonna say, and then I think you might get something like, Dr. Patrick is really busy right now. And I just don't think we're gonna be able to get you on that. Exactly. Even if Dr. Patrick is not that busy. Right. They say that just because they're like, bye, I don't wanna talk to you, Jack. You're not thoughtful. You're not respectful, you know, that kind of thing. I think some of the other things is keep your sense of humor, you know, have a sense of humor and be patient. Here's the thing with gatekeepers, we must be patient. They're all, as I said this before, they're only trying to do their job. But with your patience comes persistence. Persistence will result in a positive outcome. You know, when people say to me or donors in my work and they said, well, I have to think about it. I never just let it off there. I said, okay, when can I talk to you again? If the gatekeeper says, Dr. Patrick is too busy, I would say to him, hey John, when do you think would be a good time for me to call back to connect with Dr. Patrick? That's persistence. Well, I think the other thing too is something that we get reminded a lot within the cause selling, you know, cycle and approach. And that is, these are long-term issues. You know, it's not just about that one time on the phone where you have somebody, but you are going to have other things. Maybe you're going to invite them on a tour. Maybe you're going to invite them to an event or you're going to want their snail mail address so you can send them whatever. I mean, these are things that it's not just about that moment in time, but it is about the trajectory of time. And so- Yeah, and that's a great, excellent example. I call up Dr. Patrick and I say, Dr. Patrick, tour our homeless shelter. And oh, by the way, John is also invited to tour with you. Yes. Why wouldn't you do that? I would totally do that. But that's just another potential prospect. I'm inviting to come on a great cultivation tour of our building. That would be nice. And building that relationship, right? Especially with that gatekeeper and knowing, you know, bringing that person into the fold, into the conversation. And as you said, it might pique an interest for them to also get involved. And that could be so many ways. We talk often about that time, talent and treasure, right? And there's so many opportunities. I appreciate you saying that. So thank you. You know, one of the greatest tools that I used in my career was natural partners. Let me tell you what I mean by that. So I remember once, I worked at a faith-based organization and they, in our organization, they said, well, you know, the CEO of XYZ Bank is also a devout member of our faith. And I said, oh, well, if I call her, she's not gonna take my call. She's gonna say, who is Jack Alotto? I have no idea. But a member of our board was the COO of another bank. He was her natural partner. So I asked him and I said, could you call this CEO because that gatekeeper is gonna let him in much quicker to talk to the CEO of that bank than me, because they both worked in the same industry. They both were executives. So look for those natural partners as a way for the gatekeeper to let you in and to get in with that person who may be able to build a relationship. You know, I've never, all these years, I don't think I've ever heard that term, right? Like really finding that natural partner. And I appreciate you putting it that way because it does make so much sense. I experienced and I think Julie, you might have brought this up yesterday in our Power Week conversation with Tony about sharing some type of donor list and asking board members, who do you know on this list? And so if I'm understanding this correctly, it's actually asking the board members to maybe identify who some of their natural partners may see to really help with that gatekeeper. Right. I once got a $250,000 grant for a mobile health clinic because I brought the names of board members to a board meeting. And one of my board members said, oh, you know what? My wife plays tennis with this board member. And boom, I was in. Yeah, you're not amazing. That really actually happened. One of the other things that I think is really important, if we look at, if everybody is on social media, okay? So if we have the name of the gatekeeper, let's say it's John Smith who's Dr. Patrick's gatekeeper. I looked up John Smith on LinkedIn or Facebook or any other social media platform and I try to find connections with him. Oh, I know John Smith's Facebook friend. Maybe I should talk to him about helping me talk with John Smith about getting in to see Dr. Patrick. So using social media, I mean, in cost selling, we talk about social media pretty much in every chapter of our cost selling cycle, building relationships. Relationships are the heart of the cost selling cycle. That's true with gatekeepers as well. Build that relationship with them. Okay, so we don't have much time left and I don't want you to get away without addressing this because it is kind of following along with what you're talking about. I think. So let us see kind of what, if we think that this is going in the same direction and that is using the database to build the relationship, those things that you just mentioned like the social media or those sub connections, you're saying go ahead and mind that and cultivate it, right? And I'm saying put that in your database. I call up Dr. Patrick, by the way, how is your practice going, Dr. Patrick? We'll talk about that later. I want to, before we end, I want everyone to realize that I am not a physician nor do I have a PhD. Have you ever seen one on TV? I know. Okay, so. I went on the nonprofit show. So I apologize for using you both in my examples, but I like doing it. Anyway, so I find out that John Smith is Dr. Patrick's gatekeeper. I'm going to put that in my database. You know what else? I will remember John Smith's first name and how he wants to be addressed by having that information in my database so that the next time I call Dr. Patrick's office, I'm going to see in my notes that here are some personal details about Dr. Patrick's gatekeepers. His name is John. He is, he's asked me analytical questions. I told him about our desire to end homelessness. He wants to be addressed as John, not as Mr. Smith. I note his tone of voice. I note the speed with which he talked to me. Notes in any database about that gatekeeper are going to help you in the long run. Yeah. You know, I think also that we receive so much information from people without really realizing how much information they are giving us. For instance, you know, if you do call someone or you get an email, whatever, and they were on vacation, that tells you, ding, ding, ding, they went on vacation. The next time you communicate with them, how was your vacation? Did you go someplace fun? That also helps to build that relationship and just overall dialogue. I'm thinking now back to the beginning of school, I missed an episode of the nonprofit show because it was the first day of sixth grade for my son, right? So a lot of that back to school time is also a really big season where people might not, you know, be at their desk or have kind of that normal schedule. That's a great opportunity to really build rapport with that individual gatekeeper or not, you know, is, oh, I didn't realize you had a sixth grader, you know, and just kind of, I think there's so much information that we are so focused on having that conversation with the prospect that maybe we just, it doesn't even register, you know, it kind of comes across as noise, but it's really important. Right, I mean, I know, for example, in our brief conversation that you're a hiker, you like to hike, just like me. We both talked about the Sonora Desert. I'm not gonna put a file together on you, just say it like this. All right, I know that Julie is not a doctor. She doesn't pretend to be one. She doesn't play one on TV. So, but, you know, I think, you know, we get a lot of information. I think, you know, sometimes we send an email to the gatekeeper and we get an automatic response. I will be away from my desk at a conference at AFP during the week of whatever or somewhere else. I put that, remember that. People like to, when you give them the gift of remembrance, we talk about this in toss selling. So it's popping, the gift of remembrance, remembering their name, remembering that. Now I know that you have an 11-year-old son, this kind of thing. These are important things. People, that's how you build relationship, guys. That's the heart of the relationship. Yeah, this has been amazing. And I think one of my takeaways, and I can't believe I never really thought about this until you said this, but I love the idea of also bringing along that gatekeeper. The concept of, well, and hey, we're gonna have a tour. You know, come on down or maybe another time. I think that's really genius because those people have tentacles in other parts of their community, of their businesses, of the sector. I think that's really, really empowering for the entire relationship. And I'm kind of ashamed to say, I never thought of that until you brought it up. So that's a huge thing. That's a cool thing. That's a takeaway. Yeah, that's a big takeaway. You might see that on social media today. Hashtag non-profit power week. That's so cool, I'm so happy about that. Yeah, I think that's really, really amazing. Well, again, it's been so fun, Jack, to have you with us, to be talking about something that we all know is there. I don't think, Jared, correct me if you think I'm wrong, but I don't know if we've ever actually had an episode where we dedicated this discussion to kind of really understanding this. And so it's been a lot of fun, Jack, to have you on getting the gatekeepers key, how to secure a meeting and how to build those relationships. This has been a fabulous, fabulous time for Jared and I. Here's Jack's information. He's a key part of Fundraising Academy. Jack, we wanna talk to you about this at another point, but you also do CFRE training and pretest work and stuff like that. So I think that that's something we definitely wanna get some ideas from you about. Again, this discussion that we've had piggybacks under so many conversations and episodes that we've had directly about cause selling. So go to our archives and you will see a separate section just about Fundraising Academy's cause selling. I mean, we have hours and hours and hours of great conversation about this cause selling cycle, how it can really impact your nonprofit. Again, we wanna thank all of our sponsors without you, we would not be here having this discussion. And again, Fundraising Academy for stepping up and being our very first nonprofit power week. It's been a lot of fun, hasn't it, Jared? So much fun, absolutely. Now, Jack, do we have you back this week? I know we have several of these. I'm not coming back this week, but I think I'm scheduled to come back in a month or so. Yeah. But listen, guys, I am so happy to have met you both. I love the work you do. I love your dedication, your entrepreneurs and your innovators. And I love that. Well, thanks. It's been a lot of fun. And we have you coming back. Have you coming back? I think in the not too distant future to actually serve along one of us with our ask and answer to our Friday episode. And so that will be fun. That'll be a lot of fun. We've got so many more things that we're gonna be talking about with the Fundraising Academy involved with us in nonprofit power week. We've already had some robust conversations. Here are some ideas of the conversations that we're having. So if you missed them, don't worry. You can get back into those amazing episodes in our archives. So make sure that you are following along in the conversation. Again, if we haven't met, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy, been joined by my trusty sidekick, the nonprofit nerd herself, Jared Ransom, CEO of the Raven Group. And nonprofit power week continues forward. We're gonna be talking tomorrow about mindset and how to pick yourself up and dust yourself off when maybe things aren't working so great. And how do you really support yourself and your team and get that energy up when it might not be so easy to do so? So join us tomorrow for that. Jared, I'm like pumped up. Yeah, it's been great. I'm so glad, Jack, you started us off on Monday. Here we are again on Wednesday. Two more days of the nonprofit power week with Fundraising Academy. So thank you for sharing your time and expertise and to all of you for joining us for another episode of The Nonprofit Show. And we like to end every show as we have the last 360 plus by saying, please stay well so you can do well. Thanks again and we'll see you back here tomorrow.