 In the meeting for column eating to order from Monday, December 2nd, 2019 here at this steel community room and The first thing that we'd like to do is Prove the agenda if everybody's looked at it. There's no more additions or subtractions I'd entertain a motion to approve the agenda as is. I Make a motion to approve the agenda as is I Second that motion. Okay There's no further discussion or changes everyone who wishes to approve say aye, please Hi It's an agenda items simply the minutes of November 4th meeting in November 12th special town meeting We dealt with the fire trucks in the roadside mower somebody wishes to Make a motion to approve that I'll make a motion to prove the consent agenda items. Okay. Is there a second as well? I'll second that right moving forward. I was a wish to approve it. Please say aye. I Okay And at this time we have a slot here for the public. Does anybody wish to speak from the public? this point Jump right along here Select board items consider the request for an article on town meeting warning on climate change You'd like to come up to the Mike Kathleen and talk a little bit about your request Or you can sit sure you can sit there in the chair as well You need to speak right into the microphone Whereas the climate crisis is real and affects us in water very as in every part of the world Be it resolved that we will do everything in our power To preserve the earth for future generations Like carefully weighing the effect on the environment In all our decisions and actions Okay, I'd like to speak to how you came about this Idea and in a request we certainly listen to you Thank you I know that down to discuss various resolutions about the climate over the past couple of years and After the recent climate strike led by our young people I Was moved to respond to that By trying to bring it up here, you know so that we could discuss it at the waterbury Town meetings so that we can talk to our neighbors about it so it can encourage each other so we can do our part Are you looking for certain goals in mind at the meeting are you just looking for an overall discussion about things that possibly can be done or the way we can change things to Maybe make a difference. Yeah the discussion. I think yet this early stage Just the discussion itself and then we'll see what it goes from there. Yeah You picked a hard road to hoe I can tell you that Just recently I watched the thing on That was a way for a while. So I Was able to sit and watch a little bit of what's going on in the rest of the world and I saw this thing on the news about part of the ocean between Hawaii and United States where they're mining Preparing to start to mine the bottom of the ocean for these things called nodules their their Stones I guess that have are loaded with many different types of minerals valuable minerals that That they can use to make electric batteries for you know hybrid vehicles and lots of lots of high-tech uses for these things and they're naturally Created on the ocean bottom But I think the US from what I understand I kind of caught it in part that the US has no part of any claim to any of this area that where the bulk of these nodules are located But there's countries from around the world that have their fingers in the pie on this already in the biggest concern One of the biggest concerns I think it was a tree that the United States may have signed that prevented them from participating in This process which would possibly disrupt the bottom of the ocean You know if you think about it We've already pretty much ruined the rest of the planet now. We're possibly going to ruin a very small Delicate part of the earth or I shouldn't say small. It's large the bottom of the ocean where you know nobody has explored yet, but I Suspect will mess that up just like we've messed everything else up And so that's just one of the issues that but I don't know flip side. I saw this other issue where these kids established this Company that's cleaning up a lot of the pollutants plastics and stuff that are floating in the ocean and they're really making some headway So, you know, you got two forces here working against each other to try to once trying to make things better And I suppose if the nodules are Extracted in a way that is not damaging to that Aquatic life way at the bottom of the ocean, which is probably pretty delicate stuff You know, we possibly might be able to benefit the planet from that as well, but I got my doubts So it sounds like an interesting topic Somebody wants to else wants to speak to it. You're more than welcome I see we got some people here from the public that may be interested in it as well Can you speak it at the mic, please come up to the mic, please deterioration of the climate and all the effects it's having on the world and certainly us in Waterbury Is the responsibility of each of us? And I just think that bringing it up at Town meeting and making it real. It's not just scientists out there in the UN conference That's happening now. That's talking about it. It's it's something we have to do and And then there will be people at the town meeting and they Can take it hopefully take it personally and they can then talk to people who aren't there at the town meeting But we all have a responsibility to do something Couple things so I think one of the first questions the select board should have to decide is Are you going to allow this article or something like it to be on the warning Just that this request or you're going to require a petition now They're not asking for money, and I'm not here to to say you need to make them get a petition But typically that's how articles get on the warning. This one is not requesting money If you're going to allow it on without a petition, I would you know What is it that the warning has to be signed the end of January? So there's time and if you're not going to require a petition. I wonder if you would allow Staff to work with Kathleen and others about what the language is and then the bigger question If you can you just read it again for these kicks Whereas the climate crisis is real and affects us in Waterbury as in every part of the world It is all that we will do everything in our power to preserve the earth for future generations By carefully weighing the effect on the environment in all our decisions and actions Okay, so I'm in support of that philosophy I agree with what was just said that it's our response all of our responsibility, but the we that This resolution is speaking to is the we the town of Waterbury So my question is if it passes in this form especially Who gets to decide whether we're doing everything we can do to save the planet? When it comes time to buy a vehicle if there's a plug-in electric Dump truck that costs two hundred thousand dollars Do we have to buy that because we passed this resolution? So I'm just a little concerned about who gets to make the decision about What we do as a collective town You know me when when the vehicle that I drive was purchased the last time back in 2009 The select board pushed for a hybrid No, there was no No good alternative for a straight electric vehicle. So they the select one Suggested a hybrid and you know, I did a lot of research I came back to the board and said this is how much it's gonna cost. This is the premium that we're paying This is the gasoline that I expect that we'll say You know, I didn't pretend to be able to tell how much carbon wouldn't be put in the air Somebody could make that calculation, but not me but that was something that was Good and we did exactly what The resolution is asking we carefully considered it and ultimately the board decided to spend some more money up front to do Something that they felt was the right thing But I'm a little concerned about a Broad statement that says we're gonna do everything that we can and where does that put the town who makes that decision? What the everything is Well, you took some of the words out of my mouth I'm somewhat against this proposal as much as I Do believe in climate change? I do believe a discussion of town meetings Is appropriate? I think it's more appropriate Under other whistlers versus a binding resolution I think climate change affects our state our nation in a lot broader ways versus we as in the town of Waterbury if We would do everything we could for climate change We would have such a negligible fact if our state or country and the rest of the world did nothing I do think This is where I agree with Bill. We voted on a fire truck if I think What your resolution kind of states that if we were doing everything if we if there was a million dollar Electric or you know hydrogen fire truck available That would bind us to Purchase something like that at a great expense to the taxpayer, which I don't know if everyone is This is for I think there are a lot of unintended consequences. So I do think a lot of the quote Referendum type Request that or before many towns To be honest, I don't think they have a lot of Creeds, you know, it's not town. It's it is town business, but it's not and I would be against I Would be for a discussion, but I'd be for any kind of binding resolution that binds this board and the Town manager to do things that might be not in the best interest of water. Yeah to Mike's point There is a provision and it's been held up by the Supreme Court that says that the select board may reject a petition for a warning if it does not have to do with town business a Number of years ago Somebody presented an article to the select board and had to do with abortion and I can't remember if it was, you know, to Pro-wife or or Or not You know a pro-choice But the fact was that the select board Consulted an attorney and the attorney said well, this isn't an issue that the town can do anything about it's not town business Therefore you should not put it on the morning and you should not vote on it because The town couldn't bind itself to do anything. We don't have the authority to do it in this instance However, I think the the resolution or the the you know, the whereas is something the town Can do if they wanted to so I think it is Town business. I think the way it's written right now. It's too broad for From my Personal sensibilities and not because I don't agree with it the that the issue is serious It's just I'm concerned that it's too broadly stated and somebody could come in to a meeting and say hey You're not doing everything and we voted at our meeting that you need to do everything So I would like to suggest to the folks who feel this is important You know, I'd be happy to try to work with you to get a Resolution or an article In a motion that that makes sense, but this one I'm just concerned is too broad so that goes back to the beginning if this one is Is what needs to be proposed from Kathleen's perspective and other people Then you have to decide whether you're going to just accept it and put it on the warning or if you're going to make them get a petition So I just wrote something to get the discussion started, you know, it's not Installing or anything in my mind at all I want I don't think it should be just left for somebody to bring up at the town meeting under other business because That doesn't seem to work. I think it needs to say something about the climate You know in an article so that the discussion will take place without any you know procedural problems at the end and You know, so I made it I made it strong so that we could you know Modify it back to what's reasonable So I'm happy to do that. Yeah, so if if you're willing to work then the folks in the room Come on up Duncan And I am in support of having some article I take Bill's point that the way it is currently written Everything it can Makes it difficult for the town to decide exactly what that might be and may force it to do things that are Not in the town's interest on the other hand, I think it is absolutely town business I think the actions that we take as a town Back to our world. I think climate change is the most important issue facing our society facing our world right now and I've served with Mike on the conservation commission. I know how much he cares about the natural environment But when I hear folks say this issue is too big Other countries aren't doing enough other people aren't doing enough So if we do anything, it's a drop in the bucket to me that's almost like a group of people in the boat that's sinking and Looking around saying well other people aren't bailing. So I'm not going to start bailing The boat's going to sink and I think all of us need to start bailing and if not everyone does Hopefully when they see the rest of us bailing they will start as well And I think every little bit counts. We really don't know What's going to tip it one way or the other and It may be that we've gone past the tipping point and our actions at least reduce the impact That's going to take place on our children and our grandchildren This is a huge huge issue. It needs to be dealt with at the local level and perhaps a wording of Our town needs to take into account or it needs to consider Issues related to climate change or something along those lines as opposed to must do everything it can Something along those lines. I think all of us need to keep climate change in mind I was involved in helping to craft the energy plan And I truly believe that that we have a lot of great steps that we could take Iterate something I've said before and that is that we really need a group of people in town to drive that forward There are a lot of great action items and really very few of them are going to take place unless we have individuals from different parts of the town From municipality from water break lead from water barrier city getting together once a quarter and saying all right here at the 30 or 40 action items We've lifted which ones are we going to move forward on? And it's to a certain extent the kind of thing that the select board and the planning commission Also need to bear in mind is you know every once in a while thinking about what can we do? Because there are lots of things our town can do and we're just Everyone's busy you are you are flat out busy everyone else is busy, and if you don't have it front of mind It's just gonna pass by so this needs to be something that's thought about every time significant issues Considered at the slight more level of planning commission level and other leadership level So it doesn't need to be everything you have to do because again that could lead you down the path of well We need to invest two million dollars to do something, but it should be Considered it should be a serious consideration Yeah, I'd be much more for this if when we saw a recrafted Resolution that didn't wasn't so all-encompassing because that seemed to be like Everything or nothing so I don't know if I could vote in the affirmative for the resolution as presented Could I could I advise it? How about this? Well, I think I think we should continue to talk about The idea of whether we move forward with I don't think we should get specific tonight I think that's the mistake we can make tonight I guess I'm sorry. I don't mean to jump in but I I think it's a great idea but I think that we should let bill and The staff work on rewording it outside of this meeting and re-present it to the board I fully support everything you said, so I think it's I think every decision we make there should be consideration on what impact The decisions we're making as a town on climate change are so I think that Something along those lines is where I'd like to see it go and then whatever bill comes up with and and the Staff so I support it. I just think that we shouldn't try to get specific to what the article will be tonight I think that's that's something we shouldn't try to do tonight. I just wanted to mention that Our young people are we are the leaders and and this inspiring the adults and the old generation to step up to the play around the world and If you have an opportunity to look at the article in the bridge October 12th through 15th of this year where they had the Climate crisis action strike and around the world and Everybody stepped up and And attempted to make some kind of Pledge to themselves or information to the community and one of the things that the People here young people here in Vermont asked as if we could put something on the town meeting agendas about the climate crisis and some type of activity that everyone could think about and I Really appreciate and support that Opportunity I do believe that not to box the the town into buying something that is extravagant but to evaluate the criteria based on what is Available to do what you can not what you some step beyond like the young boy or girl Who Took the steps to Do away with plastic straws? so now we have paper straws and they're recyclable and Vermont has a small Little state has done a lot of groundbreaking things through the generations and I think this is a really a good big leap That can be done in small portions and I would really have a lot of support Whether in and many ways that we could do in our little community Appreciate any efforts that way Whether they be little or big is whatever little thing we can do with some people can't do as much as others Some people use a paper bag compared to a plastic bag so Unfortunately in my eyes and being in the business that I'm in I'm very cognizant of what's going on on the planet every day Even though it may not seem like it because I'm in the type of business that I'm in But that makes me more aware of actually what's going on and it's to some degree frightening it seems like the acceleration rate of the problem And in a lot of people's eyes there is no problem Is is the acceleration rate of the problem is faster than our efforts to Curve it and I see it I see it all the time So it's worth having certainly having a good good discussion about it. Yes, sir I feel like wrong water person and I want to speak up support of the statement, but unfortunately we want to Wait the statement so it makes more economic sense for this board for future boys But we want to make a point of Back in the 90s. It was a woman down on Brattleboro who started out at a petition on the town agenda And it was about landmines He was Jody. I can't think of her last name, but she ended up getting the Nobel Peace Prize Okay, so no step is too small And I want to just make that point that no step is too small a statement as a statement Should be a goal of this town to do what we can with I've read the Energy report we put together. It's fine. We put a lot of work in it and it's got a lot of potential for it We want to use that as a as a key piece of town Effort and keep it on the Forefront of all the all the actions we do anyone else So Kathleen. Yes, could I make one final? sure have to Propose something that maybe we could just pass and then the real discussion will take place at town meeting so The beginning is the same whereas the climate crisis is real and affects us in waterbury as in every part of the world Be it resolved that we will carefully weigh the effect on the environment and all our decisions and actions. I Guess I'd have to refer to bill for that. I I am with mark Taking a little bit more time to just make sure that we're not handcuffing the municipality in a liable way We've got time. Okay, we've got time to Get this on the on the agenda for town meeting and and so I would suggest put it off as well It sounds like they're committing not to making you get a petition. So Should we just make a motion that this I'll make that motion don't make me repeat it Kathleen All those in favor say aye, please. Hi Thank you all for coming. Yes, Duncan Morning is posted at the end of January So I think you know a reasonable goal would be Maybe by the second week of January we would have language that Would go to the select board If we get it done earlier than that, it's fine, but no later than the second week of change. We meet every Monday in January Well, I think they're leaving it to I mean, I work with any of you that are interested. I'm not here to say that I'm I'm the, you know, Thomas Jefferson of this This article so if anybody is interested out, I'll be certainly willing to have that input Ultimately, I think we just want to make sure that we're not handcuffing us and binding us to something that we can't Can't feel like right, you know, I don't think anybody's suggesting that we want it really watered out We just want it And your last one I think is a Reasonable step in the right direction. So they end up being that much like Duncan said, you know wind up with something That's going to create action items instead of just a broad statement Yeah Thanks, thank you You Thank you very much This is fine, this is your original wording, right? Yeah, that's all I mean I want to give you the other word Okay, that's actually on time. Yeah, that's a good thing managers items are next and starting with considering a contract to with Red Star natural resource management for prepare their preparation for preparation for emerald ash or preparedness right, so We put some money into the budget this year $2,200 to be exact to to do an inventory map and then develop a plan for Ash trees along the municipal rights of way particularly Streets in the center of the village area and streets around the Park in one way center Steve's not here tonight, but I think we have about 8% ash trees in in our forests around here and there's no way that We can protect all of those trees even a Landowner who has you know several acres is would not be able to afford to Inoculate all the ash trees so we had hoped that this project would be Well on its way to completion now and our goal with this plan is to The the the trees have been identified in the areas that I've just talked about and Regional Planning Commission is in the process of mapping those trees so Future folks will know where they are and the plan is intended to Give us some direction as to what we should do and The plan could be that well, there's 15 really healthy ash trees right now They should be inoculated and continue that inoculation every other year and try to save those trees there might be a number of ash trees that are already in State of unhealthiness not because of the Ashbore, but maybe just because they've got Compacted roots or they've got some other disease and it might be those trees should be taken down in Advance of the emerald ashore getting in there and giving them a place to stay so the plan is Still to be written We had hoped We had hoped that Tom and Dan sweet local folks who have hunger Mountain Forestry Would do this plan But we do have a two thousand dollar grant from the state and it's it's passed through money It's really originates his federal money and in order to use that federal money we have to have Conflict of interest policies and the select board adopts one of those every year and when we sent out the request to Tom sweet about the About doing this plan for us which earlier in the year he had expected to do But when he saw the contract language and read about the conflict of interest He and Dan who is employed by the town as our assessor talked about it. They felt that They could not get around the conflict of interest issue that You know, it's a small contract, but they felt that it could be something that Would raise a red flag with some of the regulators So they've told us that they they're not willing to do the work because they Don't believe that they can meet the conflict of interest policy that the town has adopted So Tom recommended Red Star natural resource management. They're out of Bradford from on they did the work That we're talking about for the town of Randolph We sent them the The same information that we had given to the to the suites and they've proposed doing Emerald ashore prepared this proposal But their quote is thirty nine hundred dollars to do the plan So we've got twenty two hundred in the budget two thousand of that is grant money The Regional Planning Commission worked with the local tree committee and have already Inventory the trees Regional Planning Commission is going to do the mapping for no no charge to the town That would leave the town to pay for the thirty nine hundred dollars that we need to do to get this plan in place So my proposal to you is or my recommendation to you is that you would authorize this contract for thirty nine hundred dollars They will start soon and wheels will You know draw down the two thousand dollar grant money and In the end we'll have to budget another seventeen hundred dollars in next year's budget for this It doesn't seem likely that the grant will be increased. So I think it's important that we get this work done We're going to get you know, two-thirds of it or so Pay for through this grant, but I think given What is likely to happen with these ash trees? It would be good to have a plan in place that can be implemented in the coming years Bill is there any redundancy between what the Regional Planning Commission is doing and what When start would be doing because it seems like The inventory and stuff would be part of what they would be doing The inventory's been done And we'll have to do the mapping it will simply take the inventory in the mapping and then they'll Assess the trees that have been inventoried and decide what the plan of attack or plan of action should be So there's probably no way that one of the representatives could meet with us and Explain a little bit of or more about What they may or may not Suggest that we do or what parts of this plan Would consist of you know, I Have seen towns sometimes Vote to basically eradicate any ash that's in their town Which to me seems a little ridiculous Well, I try to fight this problem You know, there's a Scope of work six six points to the scope of work meet with the tree committee to establish goals and objectives Analyze the roadside the ash inventory and data so it's already been collected Review To other emerald dashboard preparedness plans that have been developed in other municipalities Draft the plan meet with the law retreat committee with the select board in general public to present the draft plan After those comments finalized the plan And then incorporate final edits in comments and then submit the submit the plan to the municipality. So I Think that there's It's a collaborative effort. We're not asking them to do this planning process without any input from us There will be a time that those like what can have a given take with them I think it's also Should be remembered that Well, I hope this isn't the case They can they can submit the plan and they can say this is our best recommendation for a plan This is what you should do If the select board says well, we can't afford that or it doesn't make sense to us You don't have to implement the plan. There's nothing in the law that says that you have to implement this But this is an issue that we're going to deal with these trees without any any kind of Intervention it's likely that a number of these trees will be dying. They'll be in the highway right away And we'll have to deal with them And actually take them down and you know the cemetery commission This past fall There's a giant ash tree in the in the cemetery and it probably cost Three or four thousand dollars to take that tree down to die So they agreed to spend a couple of hundred dollars to inoculate the tree and they they'll do that You have to do that inoculation every two years for it to be effective And they felt that you know It's worth taking that risk to spend a couple hundred dollars to see if you can keep the tree healthy As opposed to have to spend a whole lot of money to take a dead tree down. So It's it's a small amount of money. We've already agreed to do this when the budget was put together We thought that hung them out first we was going to do it and the twenty two hundred dollars There was two hundred dollars of in kind Expenses that we were going to be bearing and then we thought that the plan could be written for two thousand dollars And I think we were kind of getting a hometown discount from the Swedes They don't feel they can do the job because of the conflict of interest policy It's not a whole Killing about money. It's just you know if we're going to have the plan done It's going to cost a little bit more than we thought out of our own pocket So if we get this plan done with Red Star and then we do Assume some issues that need action With these asterisks would they be a management company for other Contractors that would do the action work of the remediation or would they be doing this all in house? No, I think I I don't believe that Red Star is going to do any of their work. They would they would develop the plan I think that their natural resources management consultant. They're not our risks. They're not going to be taking the trees down They're not going to be inoculating They'll be simply giving us a plan and then we would implement it and we could use you know Potter We could use fire. We could use Michael Roche. We could use Joe Smith from No, if we wanted to you know to do to do the work I Guess my concern is and again, it's not so much the money, but again every penny counts In the past, you know, this state has lost The elm tree, I mean it's starting to see some come back Butternut trees have been pretty much devastated in the state and In the beach nut has got a fungus on it that is killing most of the beach I know where there's a few big big beach that are still in great shape I guess my my thought is There was no sense of urgency back then when those trees were being affected, but now for some reason the emerald ash borer It's coming in and we've got to jump through hoops to try to stop it or set it back I don't think that I don't think that we're being asked to jump through hoops to to stop the emerald ash borer I think what we're we're doing is Kind of like we talked about on the climate change issue try to get some information and education and Nobody is suggesting that we're going to try to save everyone. I don't even know how many trees are in the inventory I didn't look at it, but nobody's gonna say that we have to spend all kinds of money to save every ash tree It's it's a matter of we're gonna be responsible. I don't know who took the elm trees that were on Main Street and in the village down 50 years ago, but somebody paid a lot of money to take those dead trees down and if we can do some work and do some Relatively inexpensive things to prolong their life or to save a few of them and avoid that expense That's what the issue is is avoidance of expense not to you know, save every ash in town I'll agree that makes makes some good sense No, I mean I think I understand what Bill's saying and yeah, I I think we should Go ahead with the contract Then you'll make a motion for that for So moved Second any further discussion And authorize me to sign. Yes Okay, all those who wish to approve it say aye. Aye. All right I Posting of excess payment I can't remember how much we budgeted. I didn't think to make a copy of that. I can get it if you need to We get a pilot payment from the state Somewhere in the vicinity of you know, 280,000 dollars. I think we budgeted 200,000 was deposited into the general fund and We we planned to deposit The remaining 82,000 so let's just say the total budget was 282 that we thought we were going to get from pilot and you know, I I knew Going into the budget that the pilot payment would likely be somewhat higher than that I just didn't know how much higher so we We budgeted with you know conservatively and And hope that we would get some additional money and we did so for right now we had a Deposit into the general fund That's been made. I think it was 204,000 is ringing a bell, but I can look later if you need it And then we had planned to put 82,000 dollars into the paving fund You can see that right now 98,378 has been deposited into the paving fund So it's sixteen thousand three hundred and seventy eight dollars more than we budgeted And I chose to deposit it into the paving fund as opposed to the general fund because we've talked a lot about Paving here and trying to boost what we have so The deposit has been made If you flip your page over however When you say paving fund you mean the CIP? So the recreation CIP and I told you that You know, we we budgeted for $50,000 state grant which we did not receive and then when we started to get into You know changing the lights on the softball field We ended up running into some significant expenses because the system was so out of code that we had to upgrade the Electrical feed into the into the park as well as fix the lights so you can see Down on the expenses that we had budgeted 35,000 for field improvements. We've spent 43 947 and The bulk of that not all of it, but the bulk of that was for the for those lights on the softball field The transfer from the general fund will be 30,000 to date through Last month we had transferred 22 5 from the general fund the 30 will be transferred in So the total revenues if we leave it just as it is right now will be 52,000 985 Actually, that's not that's not right. It's only It's only 7500 more than that. So that's So what I wrote in the memo to you is actually correct. I was thinking today I said this looks too good to be true and it is 30 so the total revenues are going to be about 30,000 515 in that farm and you can see that Will be we have spent about 62,000 dollars. So we're going to be about 36,000 dollars Negative in terms of revenues over expenses in that fund and We budgeted to be four thousand dollars over So as much as I think the paving fund Should have some additional money. I think this excess 16,000 378 should be Apportioned and put it into the recreation CIP We'll still be underwater in that fund for this year and next year. We'll have to make it up somehow either Make it up with a bigger transfer or do less projects and But I just wanted to talk to you folks first about it the paving fund if even if we revert back to the $82,000 that we had proposed to go into that fund Will still be better off than what we thought it was going to be it's still Considerably underwater as I told you before we look at the CIP is kind of as a whole when we end up deciding how much we should spend but even if we only deposit 82,000 into the paving fund it will have a A less a lower negative fund balance than we had budgeted for so It's your choice in some senses It really doesn't make much difference because in the aggregate the funds are going to end up where they are Just what it looks like on paper But you know the recreation fund is a much smaller fund and and gets a much smaller annual transfer and You know if we end up with the 30ish thousand dollar deficit there that's that's Difficult to to make up because there's really no other options except tax money for that one So I could have done this and just did it And and you folks wouldn't have really Probably noticed the difference because the paving fund would have said $82,000 just like it had been budgeted for It's just a matter of where on paper. Do you want to put this additional 16,000 dollars? So I hope we don't have to spend the all evening debating It's a paper exercise on wall for you I think you're doing the right thing I agree Yeah, for me the frustrating part is every time we turn around we've got something else that's digging into our pocket and taking the funds that Can you remind me is the pilot money from room What's the is it the 1% and then 30% of the 1% local option taxes that so So the pilot money is generated by the towns that have local option taxes So Williston for example has a local option sales tax So has a tax Maybe an alcohol tax stow has a room's in yields tax A number of towns do So anyway 70% Revenues generated in those towns that have local option taxes Stay in those towns. It really it all goes to the state first, but the state sends them back 70% minus a little bit of an administration fee and then 30% of What's generated in those towns Gets put into the state budget and the state uses that 30% to fund the pilot program and the pilot program The state does not Their tax exempt the buildings are tax exempt The land is tax exempt. They don't give us anything for the land Where buildings are located? Forced we get forced in parks money for the for the state forest lands, but so the state complex The state pay it makes their pilot payment based on the insured value of the properties and then they take that insured value and then they apply last year's tax rate in every town to that and that comes up with a number and Then that's discounted. We're still getting probably about 60% Of what we would get at the state was actually paying taxes on those buildings, but it's up significantly higher for waterway because the state complex is almost brand new still so insured values of those properties are much higher than it was before Irene happened in Do you know how many municipalities benefit from pilot? Every municipality that has a building in it State building so if there's a state highway garage if you got a lean to State park you get a pain So I don't know it's not all 251 towns that have a state buildings in it, but every town that has a building gets some pilot payment I'm sure that we're second only to Montpelier in the size of Maybe Buildings that they have a bulletin are a lot. They don't get anything for you. Yeah So that big state complex that they have on Earl Street. Yeah Very suggesting that as the properties to age and deteriorate that the pilot may go down Well, it could if they if they lower the insured values on it Sure, it could go down, but that won't be any time soon But that happens with your property too if you don't maintain your property and it loses value Then our tax goes down. You got to think that it's a percentage of Pricing and so inflation potentially pushes up revenues there And you know the other the other side of the equation is that there are more towns that have local option taxes and Despite what everybody says The revenue that they generate every year the sales go up the tax revenue goes up We still you know not saying that it's an easy decision to do it. I think that there's the challenges for the local option tax are on the Business people who run the businesses. I don't think there's a big dampening effect about people shopping It's just it's one more thing a small business person has to Juggle and you know at the end of the quarter they've got to make their you know You got to pay in addition to their mortgage and their Their suppliers they got to pay their payroll taxes and potentially this so it's it's not It's We're not here discussing whether we should have one, but that's how the pilot payment is made So if everybody's okay with understanding that I will move that Meeting or next month we'll Talk about it. Yeah sounds good Next on the agenda item is considering a resolution allowing municipal regulation of cannabis Yeah, so the the Vermont League of Cities and Towns An organization of which we are dues paying member Has a legislative Policy every year and they have two staff people that That work very closely in the legislature and act as lobbyists for municipalities so We all know from the news and from history of the last year or so that Commercial Retail cannabis is is on the horizon Right now You know every individual can can grow their own have a certain number of plants and and possess a certain amount of Marijuana and they they can do it for their own use They're not allowed right now to sell that except for medicinal purposes and there's a whole separate set of regulations for that but it appears from the discussions going on in the administration now the Scott administration and with legislative leadership that the Legislature is likely to take this issue up in 2020 and You can see if you have the resolution. Yeah, I'll have the resolution in front of you Just take a second. Yeah, I did read through what VLCT sent us They sent back an email that probably wasn't very well received but Well, I don't think VLCT I wasn't aiming it at them. I don't think VLT's VLCT is is taking a stand one way or the other What they're what they're trying to Educate their membership about is that this is legislation that's likely to pass and there will be some impacts on local governments and What they're trying to do is put municipalities in a position where they have some choices and Acting on this resolution is not taking a stand one way or the other as to whether Marijuana should be sold or In this town or not But as you can see that Carlos passed that out the 2019 2020 VLCT municipal policy calls for any legislation legalizing commercial cannabis to address the impacts on Municipality school populations first responders municipal regulations and budgets What this resolution is asking for in a nutshell is for the legislature to write the law in a fashion that allows municipalities to choose whether or not Commercial establishments will be allowed in their own town Again taking no making no value judgment about whether this should happen or not that ship seems to have sailed and What they're asking for is for the cities and towns in the state to have the ability to decide for themselves whether or not they want these These retail establishments in their own communities As I've said many times before Vermont is a Jillian's rule state. We only have the authority to Regulate when the state gives us that authority. So if the state writes a law and allows retail sales of cannabis and doesn't enable municipalities to Regulate it or to vote not to have it then Municipalities won't have that right. They will not have the right to say you can't do it in in our town So the league is asking that as many municipalities as possible. I'm sure they're hoping for full You know unanimous vote from municipalities, but they're asking municipalities to Approve this resolution And if you go to the resolved part that the town supports legislation Legalizing a taxed and regulated cannabis market only if that legislation adequately addresses all of the aforementioned local considerations and concerns the town supports the cannabis tax and These are the numbers evidently that are being talked about and derived from local cannabis tax retained by the host community of Where the retail establishment is in that 30% pooled and redistributed to municipalities that do not host retail establishments and then Allowing the municipalities to have an opt-in if they choose to Allow these establishments in their town. So right now towns in Vermont can vote Me whether they're going to be a dry town or wet if they don't want to sell Alcohol in their communities. They can vote no to having alcohol sold in their communities You can't say you can't drink here because people can buy it and bring it to their own home, but There are a number of towns that do not allow stores or Restaurants to sell alcohol and that's really what this resolution is is asking for The reason why that they're suggesting Number two in the resolved part at the bottom that the town supports a local cannabis tax of 5% With 70% of the revenues just derived from the local cannabis tax retained by the host community Where the retail establishment is and 30% pooled and redistributed to municipalities that do not host retail establishments What they're saying is that's the same formula as the pilot payment. It's not for pilot It would be the 30% would be Distributed to communities that don't allow this the sales if every community allowed the sales then they'd all just retain, you know their 100% I guess but the 30% is A nod to communities that don't sell it understanding that they're going to have to deal with some of the issues that that retail marijuana brings so if it's you know Police that the police have to be you know on the lookout and trained to deal with with that or if it's Concerned about that, you know, they want to Educate school children about the you know what the impacts of cannabis is so I'm not the one who who Wrote the resolution. I'm not on the board of VLCT Say about this at all, but it's simply asking towns to ask the state to allow them to have a Say in their own communities as to whether whether or not that this will be allowed Why did they go to 5% why did they just say it matches the state sales tax Seems dumb because that's just another big local establishment. So we'll have to sell it. We'll have to have another you know You know Calculation on that on their cash registers to calculate a 5% tax versus us, you know 6 plus 6 and a half percent. Yeah, and if you don't if you don't like that part You can take that out if you want, but you could just say the town supports You know Sales tax, you know Sales tax, you know, that's maybe subject to the sales tax already Mike Yeah, I was gonna ask that this is in addition to whatever the state would do because that's how the Yeah, okay. So you're saying it's six cents. You the sales tax plus five percent on top I believe that's what it probably means. Yes That Tax of five percent, maybe they should have been clear above the state sales tax or in addition to the state sales tax Kind of like cigarette taxing. Yeah So with the municipality of choosing Possibly choosing to allow retail sales, what kind of liability is Bestowed on the town for I guess Making that ruling Is there is there if there isn't a life if there is a liability issue that comes about from them saying Yes, we're going to allow this to happen here Well, I'm not a lawyer Chris, but I think the the liability to the town would be Almost nothing in that regard. I mean We shall towns that allow alcohol to be sold in their towns Subject to being sued You know, maybe you'll give somebody a good idea. Maybe somebody will sue the town for Not being a dry town if they, you know, get a DUI from after buying some Boos down at crossroads, but I don't think liability is an issue for the town What the resolution is asking for is that cities and towns Must be granted the right to opt in as opposed to opt out That they want people making a conscious decision that they want this allowed in their community as opposed to It's allowed unless you say no And that's the difference between opt in and opt out and that vote would be taken at town meeting Yeah, if the legislature writes the not necessarily at the next town meeting, but if the That's where the decision be made the legislature writes the legislation As this resolution requests it would be an opt in so if somebody wanted to Have a business in town or if the select board just wanted to encourage that sort of business in town It could be put on the town Warning at town meeting and ask the voters to Agree to allow it Do we have a tax like this on anything else you can think of? We don't want to bring no In in other towns they have the 1% local option I know in some states that the taxes become so horrendous that uh, it keeps the black mark And very well right My concern is like any drug And this is probably if you were to put it on a scale one to ten as far as Harmful it'd probably be down at the lower level now But as time goes on everybody's goal is going to be to like any drug To increase its potency so they get more business And before you know, I guess my concern is before you know it they'll be putting synthetics, which they already are I guess in some cases Creating just a bigger problem. I think you know, we never have the That's the right word the tolerance or the capability of managing anything And keeping it under reasonable control It's for some people and I can tell you just another friend die of alcohol is a You know, that's that's too high school friends that I can think of off the top of my head and there's I know three others that are On their way out Yeah, but I mean that's that's not because we allow alcohol to be sold alcohol is a substance that's that people can make and for whatever reason people Like what it does and some people aren't able to handle it I think to your point though, one of the reasons why That the state is going to be regulating and this has nothing to do with Whether we have this opt-in or opt-out issue or whether we can control it or not But and I'm no expert but people are suggesting that the best way to have Some ability to control the potency is to allow regulation of it Because the way it is. I mean people are, you know They're out there and You know, they'd say that it's What you buy on the street now is much more potent than it was back in the 60s and 70s We all hear of things, you know, synthetics being added to it and everything else. So the the regulating of it is A little bit of a nod anyway to controlling and and giving people Some comfort about the quality of what they're getting just like it is with alcohol, you know Because exactly in the depression and people were making alcohol and it was woodgrain alcohol and people were going blind or dying or whatever so Anyway, I'm not here to speak for Real marijuana sales or not. I don't use it It's no skin off my nose one way or the other it's just Does the town want to? Take the advice of vlct and ask the legislature to allow municipalities to have some say In whether it happens in their community or not. That's really the crux of of the issue The the taxes are Are a concern and again if you don't support the the five percent if you want to get rid of that section two we can Take that out To me, it's more the issue of Deciding whether we want to Have this as a retail establishment opportunity in our community or not Is this a town meeting? type article This resolution isn't this is right this resolution right on it well down the road if the legislature if this resolution Get supported by enough cities and towns and the and the vlct is able to Bring it before the legislature and say look this is what the towns are saying And if the legislature writes the law Kind of in accord with this then yes at some point There would be an article out of town meetings to see whether we I mean there doesn't have to be but I would assume that somebody's going to want to be Have a retail business and if they do they would come to the select board and say can we have an article on the town meeting Warning and see what the voters say because I don't think the four of us can represent Totally what the real I would like to hear from the citizens what they feel like if they want our town to be dry Or if they want to be you know encouraged, you know, you know retail participation, right? So if there's no more great concern I mean I the one thing I don't like number two personally um I just think if we decided down the road that we might want to put a local tax on it That's a separate discussion, but I just don't like I don't like Establishing attacks that we don't really do in any other Market for any other products and then also on top of it the split. I just don't I don't I personally don't think that we should support that part of this resolution, but Other than that, I think It to get ahead of this and and try to get some power within The local municipality and try to state that Um to the state ahead of whatever they're going to decide to do I think is is a pretty important thing I totally agree. I find that that that tax part is the sticking point for me Uh, I do totally agree that you know now is our time to be heard And if we if we want to be heard in the future Rather than just having the state say you will allow the end of the sales Could I ask you your concern about what's what's driving your concern about the five percent? Just the fact that we're setting a precedent On a on a substance or the sale of a substance when we don't have anything else in our town That is controlled in that way. We're not doing that with alcohol We're not doing that with cars. We're not doing it with are you afraid that it might impact the the business? Or It's asking for too much Back to my point here about other states that are overtaxing it And therefore the black market's surviving very well. Is that Part of my missed opportunity. What's that? That's part of my concern We don't even know what I mean the stake about a 90 percent tax on this So how would you word it if you wanted it? I would just Eliminate it eliminate to a high group wouldn't have it part of the resolution for now, right? I mean that is something obviously that could come up later, right? You know, but truth in the matter is we don't have a cannabis dispensary in water area So So, how would you word it to change it? I think So eliminate number two The whole thing completely out. Yeah Just keep the rest. So if somebody wants to make a motion with that change if there's unless there's anything else So if that's a change you want what I would offer is that I can I can take this out and then you can sign it at the next meeting As opposed to me trying to go and do this that's a no motion now Well, I think you can make a motion to with the change to approve this with the change I'm just suggesting that the signing of it will happen at the next meeting unless you want to hang around for me to do it Now so moved I'll second No further discussion Seeing none all those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye Who made the motion? Yeah, and who seconded Okay, thank you Yeah, you gotta like talk right, okay closer Okay, you got a chew on a mic Pull the microphone right so it's just a bogart the mic as I said back in the 60s Okay next item Okay, you have a copy of Proposed amendment to the town's purchasing policy, which was initially adopted in april of 2009 um, I told you in the Memo that I sent out that I was recommending Changing the five hundred dollar That you have to have a purchase order if your department had you have to have a purchase order at five hundred dollars I told you I was recommending a thousand today when I actually wrote this I thought about it. I said well 1200 seems to be a Reasonable number to me The issue really is that The bookkeepers Both liane and now michelle Are real sticklers for the purchase orders and when department heads come in and you know There's a girl and it's five hundred and three dollars Get sent back. You need to get a purchase order for it Five hundred dollars in 2009 is Not worth, you know It's not the same dollar that it is now So that's really the big change here I changed a little language in the middle section in section three to Amplify on that where I said it's understood that the budget In each fund is a is a spending plan Overspending and under spending will occur in one more line items of the budget the manager Have a 30 to approve purchases Even if the purchases cause the particular line item to be overspent As opposed to me having to come to you and say well, we had you know $5,000 for new equipment and now it's you know, can you please let me make it 5200 dollars? I mean, I I think it goes on to say if it's Significantly higher or if it's there's a particular item That's way higher that I would come back to the board and talk and receive permission for those expenditures, but You know to I think that it's just The way it's written now in the blue font Is more like We actually operate now. You're not micromanaging me. You're not looking over my shoulder just Makes The current practice in line with the policy if you adopt it this way I make a motion to approve the amended Purchase order requirement policy second All second Any further discussion All those in favor of saying aye, please do so, please Aye Yeah, you're right. Everything cost hundreds today. This one is the If you could sign that one And to be clear it says it at the bottom that you're adopting this today, but it will be effective January 1st So the $500 limit still applies until the end of the year Eliminating discussion on the 2020 budget Yeah, I don't have anything to To distribute tonight. I don't have a budget to look at. I'm just wondering If you have any thoughts right now, do you have goals? And I have you know, if you Say for instance that You want the tax rate not to go up at all next year or you want it to go up by 3% I'll do my best to do What you're asking for It will not It will not eliminate the need for us to have budget meetings and we'll see How close we can get to your goal, but I'm just wondering at the moment We've talked a little bit about Paving we've we're trying to Up our game on that. We may have to borrow Next year again in order to do what we want to do All those kind of things will come out in the details, but I just was wondering if if you had any thoughts and You don't have to have them tonight. We're going to meet again in December I may I'm not promising, but I may be able to have a Good jump on filling in the the In effect non-negotiable line items that the items that are going to be what they're going to be that we don't have any Say over to give you a sense as to where things are going but It's time to start thinking about it now and you can discuss it or make comments now or save them until you know the meeting on the Whatever it is the 16th, I guess Put your sense bill on keeping a You know a zero Increase in our budget of the possibility of that budget or the tax rate. There's a big difference between the budget. I understand that Level filling the budget is is never an easy thing to do right because our increases. We've got Health insurance we talked about you know a couple meetings ago um Equipment And materials go up in costs There's some expectation that you know wages probably will go up a little bit So keeping a budget Level funded is is a tough task if that's what the board wants then you know I'll I'll do my best to figure out a way to do it and then we can argue about which cuts are appropriate and which are unacceptable but I think it I think keeping a budget that is completely level funded mic will Result in I won't say a loss of Cuts and service necessary, but there will be Some cuts necessary And you know I think that I haven't talked to Dan. I'm sweet at all You know, I don't think we should Expect more than a percent increase in the grand list if we get more than a percent That's that's great The last couple of years we've been Plus or minus that a little bit where you know, I I don't see You know, we haven't had a lot of Construction, you know big commercial construction the condos up on blush hill There may be a couple of those that got finished off this year, but most of that has been built out We still get some watts in water break commons over on Perry hill They continue to To sell lots there and I expect there'll be some development, but You know, we didn't get a new hotel. We didn't have another You know building built in pilgrim park or anything like that and of course cured green mountain is In the process of trying to sell off properties. So Who knows what the values are going to do? So I would be comfortable with saying one percent and hopefully get it and if it's more than that that's gravy Any sense of what kind of deficit we're going to be Our shortfall on the budget here for this year, if any, I don't think there's going to be a deficit I think that we're going to be Pretty close to where we expect it to be You know, I have it when I did the last analysis We were still showing that we were looking like that We're going to have a little bit more on the revenue side than we budgeted and our spending was going to come in Close to what we budgeted. So if that's the case, we may have a small Small surplus. I don't think we're going to be in a big deficit position in in our operating budget and out of the Main Street reconstruction project In practice, I know we've got a certain percentage there. We got to put it out Is that going to be new on the tax rate this year or does that just Stay on the No stay current or stay, you know what I mean? Yeah relative, I guess. Yeah, so We're paying for our share of the main street reconstruction project out of our infrastructure cip and We fund the all the cip's get their Funding from us from transfers from the general fund or the highway fund Um those transfers We have tried to incrementally raise the transfers every year understanding that inflation costs of vehicles go up costs of Painting goes up cost of paying contractors for bridges go up so But I I I the main street project will not Require a huge Investment such that will have a big impact on the tax rate Even if we had to pay everything in one year and we don't we're spending it over the course of at least two years and probably in the three The local share is in the vicinity of four hundred thousand dollars and about 25 to 30 percent of that is Payed by the utility district in terms of water and sewer. So It's it's really not going to be a big deal. So I guess my question is more clarified here If we increased our budget last year to cover that expenditure last year Won't that just stay in the tax rate and also do the same for this year? Or will that yeah, I don't think so Let's just say the transfer to the infrastructure cip was 250 thousand dollars. I don't remember what it is But let's say it was 250 thousand dollars last year I think we might decide to increase the transfer By whatever the rate of inflation two percent two and a half percent just to keep up with inflation But it won't require more than that I understand what I'm saying I was I was just wondering if in the course, I don't remember it but if Increase if we had put in an increase to cover that without stealing from the original cip If we had put an additional half a penny or penny and a half or whatever it would have taken to accumulate the hundred and thousandish hundred and Ah The transfer we had last year was enough to do what we needed to do last year globally So main street bridges Culverts the whole thing I don't think So I think we'll have to increase the transfer or at least All things being equal Just to keep up with The rate of inflation and understanding things are going to cost more over time We should probably increase it a little bit but it will take more than that and if we decide that we really want to hold the line We'll transfer what we transferred last year And we may have to trim off some other things that we would have otherwise done because we know we got to pay for main street Yeah, but I think back to your question on what we'd like to see. I think personally I think we should always try to Not increase the tax rate So I think that would be my first request is to see if you can put together together a budget that doesn't increase the rate And see where we land I think it's specific to paving I think the one thing that I I Maybe now we're a little late in the game this year, but Seeing I don't know um If we have a true game plan when it comes to a five-year plan 10-year plan Inventory of roads conditions Expectations on upcoming investments where we can spend now to save later Where we are in that so so Alec and Alec and Bill Woodruff the public Well the municipal engineer and the public works director respectively have been working on that plan And I think probably at the next meeting on the 16th we can review that and see what their recommendations are see where You know where they feel, you know, we should go um, and then you know the board will Either like that plan or not like that plan and ask for it to be amended But I think at the next meeting we can look at that Yeah, I think I just really want to understand that just driving around the summer I got on roads that I'm like is this that like tipping point where you spend a little now to save a lot later And I'd like to just Understand how we as municipality have a game plan when it comes to those kind of investments that Someone might say well, why are you spending money on this road right now? It doesn't look that bad and it's like we're doing it because we don't want to go the other way and End up having to dig it up and start from scratch We're really on costs on the main street project because I know I go to I go to deer camp with one of the guys who's One of the project managers and I know that he's talking about them being a head of schedule Sorry, is that better? Okay He said their head of schedule, which is something that we've all kind of recognized our costs kind of On track with what they were budgeted for or we could maybe save a little bit on the whole project Well, it's too early to say that okay, but So the town has been the way that I've worked it with my staff just for ease of Of lots of bookkeeping machinations is the So every month or so it's supposed to be every month the state sends us a bill and they basically say Uh, McDonald did this much work and it cost this much. This is what they were paid And your share is two percent and it equals x The town has paid that x to the state And we're keeping track of all that and then Within the next couple weeks before the end of the year We've already figured out Uh what the water and sewer need to pay in terms of The plans and specifications so What we've done is identify There are certain elements that you can point to and say that's a sewer Sewer expense, you know, if there's a if there's a manhole being put in at the Corner of Ellman Main Street and that manhole structure itself is $12,000 And then the installation of that manhole is another $5,000. Well, that's a $17,000 expense. That's all the sewer And the two percent share of that 17,000 will be paid for by the sewer. So what we've done is identified all of the direct costs for Sewer water and highway And then the the costs that are shared costs. So when we get the the The bid tabs from the state they said and again, I'm just making numbers up now $21 million And it's It's 18,000 18 million dollars highway and it's $2 million water and it's $1 million sewer Well, I looked at that and I said, well, that's great that they've put their bid tabs that way, but that's not right it's not fair because all they did was Is add up the price per linear foot of the water main and the sewer main and then the structures and the valves And that was their cost. I said they haven't attributed any of the excavation to water and sewer So I worked with Alec and Bill Woodruff and said we've got to Determine how much of this what the state has allocated to highway Really should be paid for by water and sewer because they can't put their water and sewer mains in without Excavating the road and frankly, they're going to excavate deeper than we would have had to if they weren't there So we've worked all that out So at the end of the year at the end of this year, the water and sewer will reimburse the town Now, I don't know. I didn't bring a budget with me. I can go and tell you 10 minutes if you want to know or on the 16th I can give you the full information And I appreciate that Yeah, that's very helpful. I don't appreciate the fact that you Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean clearly I understood what they did from a good tab point of view, but You know, they were just assuming that while the excavation is going to be done anyway, so that's how we'll split it up We didn't accept that Anyway So is there a general consensus that you'd like to try to keep a flat tax rate if possible And I don't know if that's going to be possible to mark's point. That's always our first and foremost goal. Obviously Is it realistic? Probably not. We'll see you could present this with I think based on the fire trucks in the in the Roadside moor that we've kind of Well, the roadside moor, well, we haven't committed to the second truck. Yeah, but There's the roadside moor is a new item and there'll be some small impact for that the fire trucks It was in the plan to be purchased You know next year anyway, and That's really not going to have a big impact one way or the other Well, I'm just suggesting that it's pushed us closer to a point of from there up is It starts to create an increase We had other debt service that came off the paid the timing on these payments changed and air will depend on what fiscal year they'll hit and then Turning that into another type of loan all Make it Very low impact on the potential And Because the fire trucks have been on the plan they were scheduled to be replaced in 2020 and We had to do it a few months earlier but in the grand scheme of things Their impact is going to be no different than it was If we bought them in 2020 except we bought the trucks for probably less than we would have been able to buy them had we If they hadn't broken down with we would have been paying $535,000 for next year as opposed to 465 or whatever 461 okay I just saw the new truck on the interstate for that on the fire. Oh, yeah Is there any other items Did you get that let's take a motion to adjourn them so move second All in favor