 Once again after a few years Barry you just pointed out it was 2017 since you were last on Correct Jimmy that's correct. Yeah nice to meet you. We should do this every uh, how many years is it? We've both aged like five or six years since the last time Oh, I don't know. Oh my god. Yeah Everyone's great to be to you once again my friend. Yeah, yeah New album lockdown coming out October 20th on roulette records This is a new Thunder stick album. It's been a while since six years. I guess seven years. Yeah. Yeah, it has been it's been quite a while It wasn't intended to be that long. I mean I was looking at I actually put the drum tracks down for that album um, just before Christmas 2019 and the deal was that I was going to start track laying in earnest in 20 2020 so that the album could be out on 2020 but as we all know um along came Covid and kind of put play to all that it it reached have it with with my band because um I ended up with two guitarists leaving because they They just didn't feel part of it anymore because everybody was self-isolating And it was a shame and it left just the hardcore three of us which was rex my bass player uh myself and the wonderful singer raven blackwing and um I asked a lot of people I I started, you know, calling friends And saying, do you know anybody that would fit the thunder stick remit? You know the theatrical side of things and you know just the general Playing and and we're a power rock band. I don't ever really got to regard myself as a as a heavy metal musician I don't think we're metal enough to actually be called that but that is a kind of you know The dichotomy of that is that I'm known for the new wave of bridges heavy metal I was once the figurehead for that movement Which is kind of strange. But anyway, yeah, I called a lot of friends and done A lot and came back and said well, we don't know anybody that we could recommend for live shows But we'd be more than happy to put some stuff down on the album if you're doing an album And I kind of hummed an arm thought about it for a while. Then I thought, you know, I'll do that Why not? What's better than having a load of friends that are really musically competent To play on your album And I ended up doing that. So I have guest artists all over the place. I have a a guy called Marius Danielson who He puts a lot of symphonic metal albums out. Um, he's always Um, I also have Dave John Ross who used to play with uh, the new well, uh, wobble band more Yes My ex-guitarist Dave killford on it Um, and then there's a couple of other people as well, which I can't Terry warpham Oh, Terry. Yeah, because terry warpons on it. Yeah, there you go Yeah, one of the old old uh, sort of classic are in made in guitar. Yeah, same time as me I mean, he was in the band at the same time as me and and What's happened with the album is because of the input of everybody's playing style I have got such a varied album and Funny enough, the the main job I had with it was trying to make everything a composite So that it sounds like an album rather than random tracks that have been played here there and everywhere And I took a long time to do that, but I got there in the end and I'm really happy with it I think the material is really strong. Um, there's a lot of our a lot of material that I wrote back in the day That had never it had got to demo stage, but it had never actually seen the light of day has become in a master So I I dipped into some of those And then um, I started co-writing with other people like as I say Dave killford the ex-guitarist Rex my bass player and that's been a breath of fresh air for me I mean because up up until now as you probably know with 2017 everything To that point was me. It was thunderstick was my baby. I produced it. I I arrange it I write all the lyrics etc or had up until this album and I've My vocalist Raven has written Two songs lyrics And absolutely astounding lyrics and I think myself this is great because I can I can use these people To input into the thunder state. I meant it just makes it fresher Yeah, so there you go So looking forward to hearing that we've only heard the singles so far of course, but the album's not far away What is the release date jimmy? It's uh, October the 20th. Yes October the 20th. Yeah, yeah, we put the single out Because that's been in the set live and we're a lot of people like liking that and You know really appreciated it live so It also shows that um a lot of people in tooth that with the album something rickety this way comes back in 2017 jumped onto The fact that it had its had its history to it Um, it was of the time it was of the now But I was going back And and you know kind of tipping my hat to a new album of the 80s and around that time and so That album was actually quite bare as far as mixes go And a lot of people really appreciated that like, you know, they said, oh, it's great because it has relevance of now But at the same time you can hear that, you know, that new album influence This album is a little bit more technical. Um, and I've been able to Play as a producer on it Which I thoroughly enjoy. I I actually love that. I love the arrangement And and production of the album So very very also the first single is a is a re-release of don't sleep with the enemy Which was on your last album, correct? Yeah, go sleep with the enemy Go sleep with the enemy, I dare you Yeah, um, I had to have um, Raven on it because her vocal is far more In keeping with the subject matter Um, you know, I've a woman scorned and all the rest of all the rest of that, you know So, uh, yes, and she she was able to actually um You know, she she put the power into it, which I didn't think was there on the original version And a lot of people as I say like it like it live that track So it was a no-brainer for me to to actually redo that and put the heavier guitars onto it Um, which is the kind of direction. It's it's a good It's a good precursor to the album because it shows that That the band are heavier on this album than they were on the other one. All right, right And about the the album title, is that just is that just to pretty much sum up the period in which you were putting the record together? Or was there a deeper meaning to that? Yeah, no, there is a deeper meaning to that as much as that It was originally going to be up until now I fended to use five word titles like the live album in france something wicked this way came And the studio and something wicked this way comes The the album of all the remixed and remastered of all the earlier material was called echoes from the analog asylum All five word titles and this one was originally going to be called beware the dark cabaret hooligans And I just thought that was a great album Yeah, five. Yeah beware the dark cabaret hooligans Someone's gonna nick that that's brilliant No, I can't I can't because what I've done on the sleeve is I have done A double artwork. We used the same guy that we've always used bass crowcroft He's he's our kind of Derek Briggs as it were. He's all he's always done the thunder stick the later thunder stick albums and So he's done a double side to it The lockdown thing came about because everything was done remotely We weren't we were all in self-isolation because of the directive given by the government and you know, it was worldwide Plus the fact that nobody knew exactly what kovid was We were wondering as to, you know, there were people dying right left and center from this disease so We weren't allowed to get anywhere near each other and I made the decision to try and speak things up that everybody would play and and record On their own gear on their own software of which we did And the the difference The difference between the the the various guitarists was quite, you know, awesome. It was like, okay I was left scratching my head and thinking how am I going to make this Composite, you know this this album and it took a long time And also the fact that most of the guitarists Recorded their effects rather than putting down a clean track allowing me to Effects on later on a later day All that Yeah, so it was crazy And I thought after doing all this it had just had to be called lockdown But as I say it's called lockdown or if you want to Beware the dark havery hooligans and you can swap the swap the pages I Find a lot of guitar players do that Because bless them they this they they have their sound and they don't want anyone changing their sound so they Oh, look, because I mean I I produce records myself. They're like, oh, let me send it to you with my effects What they're basically what they're basically saying there is let me send it here how I want it to sound you know And I mean to a certain extent Um, I go along with that obviously because I want them all to be proud of what they've done on the album I mean, I gave say terry wopperham. For example, I get the remit. I gave him was uh, jimmy hendrix, please and it has a long The the track that he's on has a long section of about three minutes and he put down About seven different guitar tracks And it was wonderful because they were all different I was able to sort of interspersed them some of them are reversed and played backwards and Ah, it's just great. I loved it. So But same as the other the other the other guitarists all of them should be proud of what they've done on it Very what can people expect when they go see a live show? So you have two dates coming up two festival dates. I believe yeah one in france, which is also a Right act is co-headlining correct child. They're like right before Well, they're you're headlining, right? Yeah, they're headlining right headlining. We're special guests Okay, I got you What can people expect in terms of a set list when they go see thunder stick? Are you tossing in the samson stuff? Are you playing strictly thunder stick? What are you playing? I'm playing um writing with the angels. We're doing earth mother. We do Um, oh god, what's the other one we do too close to rock from head on um, and What they can expect is the same as usual theatrical, you know a lot of theatricality to it And raven Plays we we have a kind of storyline. It's it's it's not a concept album or anything like that But live we have a storyline and we record a lot of narrative Already down on you so that you know an mp3 or whatever so that in between the tracks This narrative takes over a storyline and so therefore Raven goes through many many character changes during the course of the gig Which is great. And you know, I get to watch this from behind my kit. I can I watch this lunacy that's happening It really is I mean I like people to go away from a thunder stick gig thinking how wonderful she was But she was probably slightly unhinged And that's kind of it, you know, that's the kind of way it is So there's not a theatrical character. We have loads of props I mean we should have a tour bus for the amount of props that we carry around with us. It's crazy But there you go. I you know, I I I always worship at the altar of Alice Cooper. So You know, it was it was always going to be that way I mean that's what you know Jarls before the show he goes to me jimmy's he bringing his mask So do you have your you have your mask there? I know you have it there. I know you have it Yeah Do you have it? Do you have it? No, no, it's it's all in my stage gear. So ready to really pack All right, we'll let it go. We'll let it go. We'll let it go So there's you know, a fair bit of theatricality Okay, all right And actually let me show you this I'll tell you what's funny. Funny though guys was that The main reason that I left samson was because of theatricality We went through a period where music press Would only write about thunder stick and thunder stick did this and thunder stick did that and blah blah blah et cetera And uh, there came a point where both paul samson and bruce were really kind of Getting cheesed off with all that they really get them fed up with it and so karang Did an interview with them both of them and they said Can we talk about the music instead of thunder stick goes mad and you know, it's by his head or or whatever And so Let's talk about the music and and he said okay. I can't remember who it was I think it might have been dancy benuto at the time that did the Did the interview So when the interview came out every single paragraph had a tiny little image of the thunder stick mouse all the way down it and virtually the whole interview was thunder stick did this and thunder stick did that and that led to a lot of altercation between Myself and the others because I wanted to take the theatricality even further and they didn't want it and we did I can't remember we we we were highlight. Uh, we were showcasing uh shot tactics at the marquee and I was really sort of alienated because they went on wearing jeans and bruce wore a Rugby shirt or something like that and he was really, you know, he was really against any kind of theatricals I find it somewhat ironic because if you see the eye make shows of today Yeah I'm gonna pause you right there barry. I'm gonna pause right there. Okay. So here it is There's look at this. This is what we had in canada. We had the Yes, which was and featuring and I got one too And here's the picture that you're talking about I remember when I first got this one as a teenager Who's this strange little figure here? Yeah, yeah, it's a strange little figure and then there's bruce bruce up here, right? Yeah, yeah So this was this was I guess when iron maiden was first taken off in about 83 84 Well, this came this came this came out in 86 on capital Yeah 85 85 you're right 85 because rob rod smallwood has a little a little sort of excerpt here Like yeah, yeah about it the whole thing, right? He gonna know the act I'm I'm kind of sorry. Sorry to piss on your father guys, but I hate that And the reason why but wait, but wait, we'll get into that. We'll get let's go back Let's go back in time a little bit. Okay Let's start off and we'll kind of go build up to that right there That's okay with you. All right. So here we go survivors Yeah survivors, let's talk about you joining the band here at samson and okay, and this is the reissue of it, of course Yeah, yeah with it and just tell us about that, you know, let's Charles. Have you have a more specific question on that? Okay The I mean the big I guess the big question is I mean when the reissue came out All of a sudden here's seven songs whether they're demos or whatever Rerecordings with bruce was that Was that done for any intent sort of re reissue the album or just was it his audition or what was the You've hit the night on the head. It was just purely for a reissue because obviously The original album was a three piece which was myself John McCoy from gillum and Paul or Paul samson. Yeah, and I mean, we were a three piece and we had done We were touring that album the survivors talk and At the time cbs were interested in us Obviously cbs don't even exist as a record label anymore, but they came along and saw us and the general consensus was We'll come back and look at you again if you can find a frontman And so we started looking now. I always loved a guy called gary holton Um from a band called the heavy metal pigs I don't know if you're familiar Yeah, I mean he was the guy that played wane in alvina's m pet Um, and we were really, you know, I would have loved him because he was so theatrical and he was so So right for the part But he was going back into acting and it didn't happen and paul and I went out one night and we went to a pub and uh, there was a band playing in there and Bruce was the singer. It was a band called the shots And which was quite amusing because they were they had their stage set up in front of the toilets the rest room um And Bruce was in and out kind of just doing a few little silly costume changes And he's one thing that he did within the band was that he would pick out people in the audience and start, you know verbally attacking them He did this to me because at the time I looked like ronald mcdonald. I dyed all my head right right right red And then it permed as well like paul stanley and it looked just like mcdonald so he started in on me And at the next opportunity he went back back into the toilet to change and paul and I went in there And he literally thought that we'd gone in there and beat him up But you know, anyway long story short is that we spoke to him afterwards and we said are you interested? He said I would really be interested, but I'm at university at the moment study in history And I'm just about to do my degree, etc So in the on the tour he came used to come to any gig that he was able to get to and he would get up and do the on-call with us So that was the story of survivors You know the the management company said once he once I think it was After we'd released head on that they decided that they were going to do that with survivors And put his vocal tracks on it And and that was it. So yeah So so the the album gets released bruce joins the band when survivors They release survivors, but bruce is on the album cover, correct? Yeah, he's not on the album He's not on the album, but he's on the album cover as one of the uh, I think he's like this one right here, right? Yeah, yeah, however, he doesn't sing on the album. Correct. Yeah And then when you're going into the next album, that's when you decide to do the the the vocals Yeah, yes Yeah, that's it. But it never it never came out until like 20 years later as part of the reissue though Didn't it? Oh, yeah, well, I mean, you know the the tapes were there Um, right. So I mean it was always it was always going to do that But uh, yeah, I mean that's exactly why they did it So to reissue How did the album do overall? I think it did all right, you know, I a lot of people actually Look at that album. I think that was one of the or was the first new Wobbam album um, it was strange because uh, when I went to audition with with samson um But chris eilman was there playing and uh, I was called back for another audition the second one And and I'd met paul several times beforehand before I actually walked into the audition I walked in and went oh my god, not you and he went oh not you Because we used to both rehearse in different bands at the same place And I'm you know, I would be with my band going out and he would be coming in or vice versa Good name for a track that but So, yeah, I mean we'd mess each other and as I walked through the door, he went oh my god you So chris eilman did the first audition. I was called back and lo and behold, there was john mccoy Um, huge great imposing man, you know with a bald head a great big fur coat on and all that And he stood about that far away from me and we were doing one of the tracks pulled on that album six foot under And he's just like a rhythm machine He would stand there with his head nodding like this and he was just there I try to bum me out and I thought I'm not gonna let you bum me out. So, you know, that's when I got the gig So and then after that we went into the studio and everything was great I love playing me job because he's such a Is that was that before he was in gillum No, he was in gillum. Not that time. Yeah, he was already the same time, right Yeah, and then after how many years with this album like was it like eight months later head on comes out Yeah, about that. Yeah So both joins and and this is the image that we're all referring to as sort of you or the poster boy Of the new wave of british heavy metal. Of course, this wasn't a crying image, but it was No, it was on sounds mega. He was on sounds. It was on sounds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I thought, you know It was strange because when I started playing There were not many Drummers that were recognized There were the exceptions to the rule to Keith moon john varner and you know people like that Ian pace Drummers that you would immediately recognize But there were so many bands where you couldn't recognize you couldn't tell who were the you could name the guitarist Or you can name the singer but you couldn't say who the drummer was and then once they started to get into releasing pictures of the bands because I mean in the the black and white rags such as Sounds and melody maker and new musical express all these these kind of once a week journals They didn't really have a great amount of band photographs and with the likes of karan And what have you that all started and and you got posters of of metal bands or rock bands But you'd always see the guitarist like the front doing this and the singer doing his posing and And a row of symbols on the top of somebody's head So that's how it came about. I thought I'll create a faceless drummer and that's exactly what I did And then called it thunderstick because it wouldn't have sounded right called it Side profile that you mentioned there before the guitarist over again the samson years I wonder if these sounds pictures here. I don't remember if it was Well, the sounds picture was the thing on the back of this wouldn't that that was the that was no it wasn't it was That was I don't know exactly what it was. Yeah, it was certainly Yeah, the photographs on the back of that one head tactics Is um from a photo shoot that I did for for thunderstick my band and I just was that right Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna try and bring up the sounds one on my phone here Yes, I mean the the samson mask was really brutal. It was um You know the part of that reason was why why I went with a female vocalist within thunderstick, but you know, that's a story in itself Very so so the songs right the song so and and everybody I should understand as samson is sort of Developing as a band and your recording head on at the same time iron maiden is in parallel with you guys Right. Yep. So the famous thunder burst controversy Thunderburst gate thunder as I like to call it thunder Maybe you want to I know you've explained to me in the past, but maybe you know, you could explain again for those folks That's the one there. It is. I stand corrected. There it is. It is very different How brutal is that? It's a brutal look, yeah Yeah I would you know when I put thunderstick together I had to soften it and so as you know the mask These days is a little bit more contemporary than bruises That must have been a shocker for Must have been a shocker for just you know, you're you're high street stores carrying sound magazine That's why yeah, you know the the um the compilation album the new album revisited compilation The I think l'alzore it put that together. Um, it had that picture right in the center of it and they Covered it up They covered it up with some smaller photographs because some of the outlets Retail outlets that it would have been on sale in such as w.h. Smith's and what have you Thought that that image was far too stark and would frighten little old ladies and and what have you as though They had to cover it up So what was their reason what was their reasoning? It's like, you know, like it reminded people of like a balaclava sort of In the uk at the time There was a guy called the cambridge rapist All right, okay, and the cambridge rapist was Was breaking into women's homes and raping them in their own home And guess what he was They wore a balaclava such as that and so You know sounds didn't help the matter because they used to do a little poll The christmas thing at the end of each year And they would hand out all these little awards and the best kept best Dressed cambridge rapist the wall goes to thunder stick of Which is like, oh man, I you know, I've always viewed Thunderstick as a bit of a knockabout character. He was always You know that he was always the victim. I always looked on him as the victim being rather than being the oppressor so Yeah, it's you know, that was that was horrible at the time and of course because that image Is right Yeah, it featured heavily on the posters for the live gigs that we did And women's activists started ripping down the posters and protesting outside the gigs that we were doing So somebody pointed this out the other day a while back Do you have iron maiden killers album there? Can you call it up on your phone there Giles? Well, yeah, it's amazing how that Image and iron maidens killers image even though they weren't recorded at the same time But there's a lot of similarities going on there Yeah, yeah, well the axe do you mean or the well, I mean just there's somebody out there with Of course, this is not an axe. This is what they call a uh executioner You know Think of the man, but okay. All right, okay with an axe and then you've got you know, this unmasked man this masked man with You know with an executor I mean that is the hatchet. Yeah, you know that that's kind of like you see how you guys were in parallel, right? It's just unbelievable and thunder burst and uh, I demand didn't help either really did it I mean that was I think I've read it before but just for those What was the story there? When I was with Maiden we Steve was the first person to introduce to me rehearsals of just the rhythm section Up until then every band I've been in used to rehearse as a band all the time And yet when I got with Maiden Steve started rehearsing just the two of us to get everything tight And thunder burst was uh, uh a drum rolling pattern that I came up with He came to me with um ideas for that song and I would Do this drum roll drum drum pattern as well as I threw in a couple of ideas So when when I was with um with samson We did the head-on album. We were still looking for a couple of other tracks to use. I said, well, there's a track that's an instrumental And played it to him and I said, yeah, yeah, let's do it. So we did it as an instrumental and then uh, Piper who had also joined join Maiden because I mean as you say the connections Between samson and Maiden were like that. I mean Not only clive burr ex samson drummer joins iron maiden But ex samson singer joins iron maiden. I was asked back as well after After we finished the tour together um, and uh, so We did this instrumental and paul's still friends with clive burr and clive went over to Paul's house and paul's said look, you know, we finished the album. Do you want to hear it? Yeah, great So put the side one on wonderful. Everything was great Side two up comes thunder burst hence, you know, because I took it to the band. That's why it was called thunder burst and clive fell off his chair And he went, oh my god, we're using that as an intro And and paul went what were you talking about? So he went in his bag and he pulled out a cassette Put a cassette on and there was I to march um So as soon as this got heard Uh by the iron maiden camp. I was summons to a need a meeting at EMI and rots mallard was there and Steve was there A couple of the record company bots were there and a couple of the legal team from iron maiden And I was told with no uncertainty Steve is going to take 50 percent of the songwriting royalties on thunder burst Um, and and with samson, we were a four piece songwriting team. We call ourselves stab, which was samson thunderslake aylmer and bruce uh stacked so We only got 12 and a half percent each from from the uh the um Thunderburst thunderburst track. Yeah. Yeah, and steed took 50 percent and then hit then the the legal bog said If you insist on trying to claim Songwriting credits on uh i'd to march. We'll see you in court And that was the that was the end of that. I mean paul the band might you know samson didn't want to know anything about it Because it was something that had happened prior to me joining samson The management didn't want to know anything about it. So I was totally unrepresented by You know by anybody and I went there to that meeting alone And and the rest as they say is history And who would have thought it would have worked out the way it worked out, right? Who would have thought I would be with the biggest man in the world, right? Yeah, I mean, yeah, we didn't know so But um at the time, I mean had I Got songwriting on the eyes of march. It probably would have changed my life But so so was it? Do you mean you have 12 of it? Don't you 12 and a half percent? No, no divides a march. No A thunderburst only Right interesting. So you got so he took 50 percent of your song. Yeah, but I was But you didn't you didn't even get one percent of his song correct correct and it's the same song None of us did none of us. No, you know, that's why I was that's why I was called to the meeting And told that this is the case and that's the way it's going to be And do you consider that do you consider that song a co-write between you and steve like a 50 50 kind of thing? Or was it totally your thing or you know, when you're putting I've never totally my thing and Steve if we broke it down if we were to break the whole song down Steve probably 75 percent Barry 25 percent of that song But I mean, you know, it's many many years and a lot of blood has passed under the bridge So, you know, it's just another one of those stories and the the fable tales of iron maiden Like I'm supposed to have fallen asleep on on stage whilst playing with with maiden. I mean That that that's the story right that you are ridiculous. I mean, I don't know where that came from um And I mean It's just so stupid. It's so stupid. I have actually got a copy Of that gig that I did the the one that they were talking about that I was supposedly fell asleep And I am right on everything. I really am. I mean I listened to it because I Steve said you probably know you've probably seen in the video of the early days Steve's talking about it and he went, oh thunder Barry or thundersteak must have dropped something and it wasn't his drumsticks and you know, so it was that I was it was um Interrupted as the fact that I was out of it or whatever. But as I say, I have a copy of the live album sorry the live Live the live performance that we did and There's no way that I'm I I am out of it. It's um, I'm I'm alive when looking at when the recording of this album This wasn't the one where you recorded the same time as iron maiden killers. Were you over in the studio at No, that was short tactics the next one So but wait a second. How did this how did this sequence go though? Like you have aides of martyrs survivors head on uh Shot tactics head tactics. No, no, I get that but I mean iron maiden. They have aides of march I guess it's not released yet While this is while this album's coming out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was I mean it's not released yet Right, and that's where they play to the tape. Yeah, and they recorded it and then they knew what they were going to do with it Yeah, yeah, because that means there's an intro An intro so tell us about the music on this album, you know Well, that's I mean that was a we all we said We wanted to be a four man writing team just to You know stop. Oh, you know any other problems That we've just been talking about so we were four man writing team and we all brought something to all those songs as I say I I've never regarded myself as purely a drummer. I'm a musician. I write on keyboards I do a lot of writing and arrangements and lyrics and as I've said earlier so there was quite a real A real buzz about about that album because everybody was just bringing ideas all the time a lot of the counter melodies of mine a lot of the Strange effects and you know the weird wonderful things like walking out on you or the Backwards choirs and all that kind of thing and I did a lot of production on it I I wanted a production credit, but I was never given one and so I had to settle for Additional ideas thunder stick on the on the sleeve I did I did all Bruce's Vocals tracks Everybody else by the locker went home and I sat with the engineer and Bruce and did and You know put down his vocal tracks with him And I'm sure if you get to talk to him he will say yes, that's the truth. It did happen So, I mean it was a lovely hot spot of ideas. Um, my playing is my most flamboyant there And it's got some swing. It's got some swing there. You're playing Above the ahead of the beat and a lot of the size You know, um I like it. It's like I like to I tell Giles Giles. I love the drumming styles. It's quirky in a way, right? But it's upbeat and it's alive. I like it So that's that's why when head tactics came out. I hated it because That we did shot tactics with Tony Platt and he just come in from working with ac dc Yeah, we had the whole of shot tactics the next album was written. There you go that one Yeah, it had already been written and we went into pre-production for two weeks with Tony Platt And we literally pulled every track apart and started to rebuild each track And he simplified my drumming and I wasn't allowed to do the explosive Tom, you know, Tom Fields and the and the crazy snare drum hi-hat stuff and all that that you will find on head on So that was kind of the halfway house And then when shot up when head tactics came out They were aiming at an american market because bruce was already with maiden by then And they wanted it simplified so that you know, the fm stations could pick it up and play it Without it anything being a little bit to ot and there you have it So that's why what do they do with this? They they remixed it and change some stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah remixed it I mean, how do they change? But how do they change your performance today? They cut all the the fills out and just made you know made the very stationary pedestrian pedestrian beat Sort of the equivalent today of like what you would say quantizing the drums or something Yeah Straighten it out a bit and make it make it boring Yeah, exactly make it, you know, so that it's easy listening. I think Easily listening american audience at the time that's interesting that they would do that because Usually compilations such as this are just kind of like, you know, like when bond scott becomes a star with acdc They put out his fraternity stuff the previous band You know, they go back and reassure these things hoping that a few a few maiden fans that don't have it will pick it up It's very it's it's not normal that they would it's not typical rather that they would go Let's try and get on a radio song off of something like this Yeah, yeah Because you think their focus their focus would primarily just be keep bruce known for iron maiden rather than try and Get a single off something It's for my band, but anyway, I had nothing to do with that I literally had to go up to emi just to do a few autographs on it and that was that. Yeah I mean right, right. It is very simplified and so so the drumming on this was simplified Correct. Yeah, and then it was even more simplified on head tactics This was more of a performance. They go. We want you to perform but downplay the performance. That's what they're telling you here Right. Yeah, that's it. So you're in the studio doing shock tactics, right? Yep And right next to you and this is a cool story too right next to it's iron maiden doing killers Yeah, that's right. What was what was the sort of the camaraderie between you guys? Were you listening on each other sessions? I know that bruce was in and out of their session and I thought I definitely was was coming into our session and listening to stuff Um, I don't remember steve ever coming in Not I something I just don't know. I can't remember but I don't think And I didn't go into the killers Session But there was always that you know, as you say, there was a comradeship, you know But everybody was trying to better each other at the time the new wave of british heavy metal came about because of punk really I mean punk was at the time You know the be all and end all of everything promoters wanted to just put punk bands on Record labels only wanted to sign punk bands and there were there were no other genres that were getting a look in And all right, we all know that punk gave us some some really great acts. I love the sex pistols album I think it really stood the test of time and the energy of it on it is fantastic Uh, you have the clash you have the damned You know bands like that the susie and the banshees you know bands like that that actually Were making music But there was also a lot of dross out there as well that were hoping to get signed people that couldn't play properly so The new wave of british heavy metal were bands that were underground at the time learning to play their instruments and learn You know so that that they could one day get a signing And then when punk had run its course and well and truly thrown the dummy out of the pram Suddenly promoters were looking around to see what the next thing was and record labels were And that's how new wave of british heavy metal came about with such an upsurge of bands at the time You know huge sex and samson. I made Diamond heads, you know all these these bands just Boom, they're suddenly there and the press were writing about them And that's how it became the next best thing There was a kind of rivalry between the bands. Yeah, but it was a friendly rivalry. It was nothing Nothing, you know that You know nothing to stop you from going and seeing each other's gigs when when you would play live, you know so I used to have dressing room duty when uh climbs dressing room For uh for i made and I was put on dressing room duty to stop any untowards from coming No, you can't go in there. It's a dressing room guys are getting ready or they're just finished their set and they're getting changed And he would do the same with samson and stand guard outside the dressing room. Yeah That's great. So you got you got on well with live then. Yeah. Oh god. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, nothing against nico. I mean nico is a wonderful drummer and then probably lots of listeners and viewers that are watching this at the time That would disagree with me, but I think clive was more suited to make Uh, I would agree with that. There was a feel Certainly, it's a little more raw And you mentioned you mentioned something earlier. You said Two things you mentioned earlier. I wanted to circle back on if you don't mind you said you asked you were asked back Now you are do you saying you were asked back to samson? No, I made Um, what happened was uh, we've been playing we we toured together and I can't remember what's or it was I think it was uh The heavy metal crew said I think it was that It was samson headlining iron maiden second on the bill angel witch opening And we did that to her and it finished, uh christmas 1979 and At the time the drummer with the with iron maiden was dug samson Yes, and he at the end of the the end of the tour Uh, according to steve what was happening was that the sound engineer would have his faders at a reasonable level for the drums By the end of the gig he pushed the faders up as far as they could go and couldn't give it anymore and this was because Doug at the time had some kind of medical condition That he was losing power in his arms and you know, I don't think there was any I don't think that there was any kind of untoward your fire or anything like that It was a mutual agreement between the band and dove that he he wasn't actually cutting it at the time Um, so we finished the tour and we're just about going to day before christmas a phone goes and I answered it and he said hello, it's steve and I said steve who and he went harris As if you're supposed to know. Oh, yes All right. Okay. Hi. What can I do for you? um I you can would you consider coming back and rejoining maiden and I was I literally was stunned Um, he didn't want anything to do with the the thunders the image as you said earlier It was already on the sounds cover and thundersed. It was really gaining momentum for me as a character Um, I was getting a lot of publicity for for the band for samson Um, and steve obviously didn't want any of that at all. He wanted just me So I said can I have a couple of days? It's christmas Can I have a couple of days to think about it? And he said well, you know, we've got we've got an itinerary that we're working at and You know, we really need to know what's going, you know, what's going to happen We need to put the band together because we've got all these these games and we're recording and blah blah blah And what happened was I said How about you hire a drum kit and after christmas? I come down and play with the band And he said great. Okay. Let's do that. But in the meantime Rod small word phony up and say, you know, we need to we need lancer because you know, we're really under the cost As far as our timeline is concerned And I said I just can't at the moment. I can't give you an answer So for christmas, it ruined my christmas I've got it all written in my diary because at the time I was keep keeping a journal every day And it's just You can you can see the the angst in my writing Because I hadn't I really didn't know what to do. So anyway, I went a day after boxing day, which is The day after christmas day in the uk and in canada I'll end in canada But american american What the hell's he talking about boxing day? So um the day after boxing day, I went over to the east then There was a foot and a half of snow. I only just managed to get over there And they'd hide the drum kit and I started playing with them and rod was there and I can remember rod at the time saved Get this he said this band is going to be bigger than Led Zeppelin And I thought it's really, you know, admirable that you you have such a belief in your band that you're managing But to say that they're going to be bigger than Led Zeppelin but they are all They are both of a time and you can't you can't differentiate between the two you can't say made in a bigger Because Led Zeppelin didn't have The facilities that I made and have now like social media and and just being able to you know Kids with their phones just you you can have you can have it go up on Social media within seconds or even live stream it and things like that Led Zeppelin didn't have all that they They had just a A building of a following just by putting their albums out on great musicians So, uh, anyway, I thought that was wonderful. Anyway, so I played I can't remember how many tracks three or four tracks. We did um running free, which was uh the single they were just about to record And by the time I got to the fourth track I thought This is not going to work Because our styles I think are incompatible now so finished playing and Steve said and And I went I still need a couple of days to think about it Um, and I left it at that It was never a definitive No, or yes I just need a couple of days to think about it and uh the phone call never came And by that time I had well and truly decided that I was sticking with the Thunderstick image and sticking with Samson. I mean, they were real pissed off when you know when they found out that I'd come and Auditioned as it were for them. They weren't not too happy. Was that an audition in front of Fans or was that just audition closed audition? It was just a rehearsal room. They hired the And we played in the rehearsal room so Yeah, the phone call never came and I never I never followed it up And I just pepped on the course with with Thunderstick the image, you know Yeah, the next thing of course is that we're in the studio down at Kingsway, which was in Gillan studio at the time Phone goes and John McCoy Pics it up comes into the control room and says I just found out the new drummer for I made this and we went oh, yeah, who's that and he went it's Clyde Ferre and everyone went what? So we literally swapped places. I still had Iron Maiden stenciled on my drum cases whilst I was playing with Samson in the early days and And clive the same he had uh, I'm uh samson on his drum cases So Yeah, yeah, I mean I got blessed when we went to the Clyde's funeral after he died The everybody gathered at the house his house and the garage or the garage door was open And there were the original Samson drum cases Wow, wow, that's amazing Yeah, wow on that note. That was a great story Barry. That was a wonderful story. Um, thank you All right, let's let's go. Let's let's sort of circle back now to the beginning of this as we close off Okay, so the new album Yeah, looking forward to lock down Let's put a lockdowns coming out october 20th All right Everybody could purchase it. I guess online, correct. Uh, yeah. Yeah, there's a pre-order link online just if you if you either go on to Uh, the thunders stick facebook or Um, there is that we have a fan page as well called thunders the thunders stick storm troopers Or go on to my own Barry Graham perkis on facebook and you'll you'll find the link there Uh for a pre-order What we're doing this saturday, uh tomorrow No, no saturday today. Sorry saturday. Yes. Yeah, it is saturday. Yeah, my mind has just been all over the place um, so uh today, um, there was a pre-order with a um a link to anybody that pre-orders so that they can hear the the entire album On soundcloud Only for this day So anybody that's putting an order in today for a pre-order They were listening to the entire album and then at midnight tonight. It gets taken off again And and uh, nothing there until release date with the cds. I've taken um, I've taken uh possession of the cds already And the the booklet is a 24 page booklet Uh, yeah, yeah the graphics in it are wonderful and You know, I just hope everybody enjoys it. I really do because I I've kind of put a lot of heart and soul into this I can definitely I can definitely say for me and jimmy. We're we're certainly looking forward to hearing it Thank you And you know what uh next time I hopefully uh in Six years time Six years well, I mean, I'd love to see you guys perform live one day. So our cross Are we will somewhere down the line somewhere in the world? Hopefully That would be great. Yeah, that would be great. It would be wonderful All right guys have yourself a wonderful day everybody go pick up lockdown and catch barry in france And and the what is it in the seventh? Yeah, seven. Yeah, that's it With riot act great show lovely talking to you guys jimmy lovely giles. Thank you I am And hopefully we'll be also along the line somewhere absolutely stay in touch man. All right, we'll do