 Hello and welcome to MIP TV and as usual and as always Bob Cook from the Manchester Institute for Psychotherapy is going to share his love of literature and one really really seminal book that we're going to look at today it's it's a book that every supervisor should have on the shelf I've got it on my shelf book about my shelf book my bookshelf even really really seminal book and I know when I did your supervision course Bob it was one you recommended that we all go out and buy and it is supervision in the helping professions yes by Robin Sherwood SHOET and Peter Hawkins yes yes and it I'm going to quite bold here Bob I think it's a book that even if you're not supervisor it's useful to have yes absolutely because it also talks about the nuances of supervision and it also gives you great insights on your own effective supervision yes yeah because once you once you look at it you can you can see if your supervisors working effectively it's a bit of a check and a balance isn't it I think absolutely that's correct how to use your own supervision effectively yeah yeah yeah and that's all about developing that self-supervisor which is just so important for practitioners and you know in case anybody does not self-supervisor do you want to explain that Bob the the famous phrase the self-supervisor well Patrick Caseman who was a very famous British psychoanalyst still alive actually I remember seeing about 25 years ago he wrote a seminal book and I think it was probably would be I don't know late 90s and then he followed up with another one anyway this book was called learning from the patient and he was talking about his cases of clinical vincenettes if you like in psychotherapy he went on to coin a phrase called the internalized supervisor that wasn't him really I mean we go back in time but supervision is a young profession and he's like he's thinking was we create a third eye and that's for our own supervisor our own particular supervisor which we all have we develop always by osmosis I think it's transplants but anyway we develop an internalized super which is supervisor which is very much like our own supervisor that we see ourselves as supervision and then gradually over time that's supervisor which is called the internalized supervisor becomes integrated for your own style yes yeah and it's interesting and when I was training my my choose a sort of the helicopter skill yeah where where you're this way you're in front of the client and you work with the client but a little bit of you is hovering over the top like in a helicopter looking down and seeing it from a literally a third eye yeah meta perspective is that what he's called a meta perspective wow what does that mean when you say meta perspective Bob it's a very good analogy of yours really like a helicopter skills yeah it's like a third dimension meta means third dimension third dimension yeah third dimension and it's it's one of the things I hope that counseling students are taught to develop that internal supervisor because it's so useful I found it's so useful to work with a client and all of a sudden you're kind of having a conversation with yourself and saying you know why am I using that intervention why am I doing this and why am I feeling the way I am and is this transference and it's amazing once you become kind of seasoned in the work it's amazing you can have these two conversations almost simultaneously with between yourself and the client and you and yourself in yourself but try to explain it to anybody and they look at you they like how does that work but it's one of those things it's it's metaphysical isn't it you can only you can only kind of understand it if you experience it yeah so that's a really interesting notion on the self-supervisor so why is this book so important do you think because it is an important text isn't it it's one of the few books that came along it came along in 1989 and we've had many additions since then but in terms of a 7-0 textbook it brought many models of supervision together I mean if you look at the book the beginning part of the book is definitions of supervision then talk about supervision skills and then goes on to talk about a really basic model of supervision which they call the seven-eyed model of supervision and talks about different dimensions within this global model it's really a process model of supervision looking at how the two relationships you know where you your client and you are operating in your practice your therapy and then of course you go to your supervisor and you got the relationship of yourself and your own supervisor how those two merge together in a process or oriented one so for example you're working with your client and your client brings the anger issues and they talked about anger issues and you go away feeling angry you may then go to your supervision so you've got supervision the next day you walk into supervision room and you start acting in an angry way with your supervisor so the anger is being passed to you in your therapy room kind of consciously you then take it to your supervisor and those two relationships I've just talked about get acted out so they call this the process model and have seven stages within the process model which they examined so you can see that the model could be used as a grid you can see where you are in the supervisor process or looking at how those two relationships merge together yeah yeah because sometimes you have to work with projective identification where a process fires up within the therapist that that is that is a transmitted process from the clients or clients angry and all of a sudden you for yeah and then sometimes you have to work with parallel process and there's a big debate on parallel process parallel process sometimes appears in the therapy room where you're trying to separate your stuff out from the clients and that's confusing but it's also the parallel process also is in the also in the in the supervision room where the process is part the process that the supervisor is bringing parallels the process that the client has so on a very simple scale clients angry supervisor comes in angry clients confused and lost supervisor comes in that's the classic one isn't it built stop stop us yeah it's just and you know as a purpose it's really important of course and ethically important that we have some supervision and when we get stuck we go to see our supervisor you know that's the normal process it's a very protective process for yourself and for clients and a learning environment as well and usually and quite often when we're stuck it's because we're carrying material that has been projected from the client onto us and then we get confused and then we go to our own supervisor and we may carry out or carry through the same unwanted material and pass it on to the supervisor and the supervisor's job is to actually help the supervisee stroke therapist be aware of that process yeah yeah to act as a third eye and the book beautifully illustrates this the seven-eyed model and I know that there's a video and a video that we did which which did the entire seven-eyed so put a link put a link in the in the comments bar below oh yeah where we went through the seven seven seven seven eyes of it yeah it's it is a brilliant book isn't it Bob and for me I'm always kind of popping my nose and then going realize that's really interesting just to kind of refresh your memory what what does it bring to you Bob the book well the other model I like of course probably well just as much as this model and I often think about this is the dimension of developmental process and supervision in other words a diva developmental model because it's very important for therapists to think developmentally what age is the client coming from in the therapeutic process and it's the same for supervisors so a supervisor needs to think when a supervisor comes to see them or a young therapist comes to the supervision they need to think well how long have they been working as a psychotherapist so for example someone has been working for six months will need different developmental needs attuned to yeah he's been working for 20 years yeah yeah yeah and so unless the supervisor tends to that developmental process then they can often miss the mark all together with their supervisors yes it's true isn't it and there's a triangle the famous triangle isn't the formative normative and restorative yeah yeah yeah channel so information supports but also procedural things you know and then right in the middle of that of course is ethics yeah absolutely so so a supervisor has many different tasks if you like from the administrative procedural tasks to being a gatekeeper of ethics and educating tasks the consulting tasks the counseling tasks so they hold a lot and this book helps the reader understand not only what supervision is but the complexity of supervision yeah that's one of the things I learned on on your course Bob was that was that he was which I to sitting correct because that is that is and that that is directly generated by how the supervisor presents yes and so so yeah you have to have one before you can do the you can't just sit down think today you know five minutes before the supervisor is turns up going to be in seven going to be talk about what's going on because that doesn't attend to the supervisor these needs at any level does it no I mean we can borrow a supervisor some of the therapeutic cancer skills we've got like it you know it's tuning staying you know and being with the supervisor stroke therapist but one aspect of supervision which is different is that we need to bring a level of proactivity supervision if you like and that's also talked a lot about in this book so it covers a lot a lot of ground this book and it's very helpful for somebody who's beginning out as a beginning out for supervisor yeah or to refresh their skills yeah yeah and also I think it's useful for for for therapists who are not supervisors maybe if they get a copy to read it because it really good gives a good idea of how to how to work with get the best out of your supervision because you speak the same the same language yeah definitely sir it's a really important but in fact I've been more supervisor for 25 years I've been teaching supervision for a very long time and if somebody asked me one book this would be it yeah yeah so there you have it you can't get a better recommendation from Bob who's been a supervisor for a quarter of a century yeah and supervision in the helping profession is one of the most well known well-respected texts Robin Showat and Hawkins I don't know Peter Hawkins so so there you have it and as usual Bob isn't being paid as a book reviewer he's just reviewing the books because he enjoys sharing his love of literature with with the audience so we'll put a link in the in the comments bar below so there's a link to the book and also we'll put a link into a couple of other things that people can look at maybe those videos of me being supervised and as always Bob thank you very much and we'll see you in the next book review you will do this is number 23 coming up I think this is number 22 itself yeah yeah 23 is round the corner it literally is we'll see you there thank you