 If Reality Check Radio enriches your day in life, support us to keep bringing you the content, voices, perspectives and the dose of reality you won't get anywhere else. Visit www.realitycheck.radio forward slash donate. We've had Tony Ankovich on the crunch before, she's an MP now and I wanted to get her back on to discuss how she's finding a new role, what she's discovered and what challenges she is experiencing. Tanya is on the loan with me now. Welcome back to the crunch, Tanya Ankovich. It's a pleasure to have you back. You're now an MP. It's really wonderful to be here. Thank you for the invite. Now, we talked in August last year and you're a brand new candidate and you're extolling the virtues of New Zealand first, being a dutiful candidate and your support of the leader and Shane Jones. And I noticed in your maiden speech, you specifically acknowledged the two of them. Yes, yes. Well, I meant what I said when I feel honoured to now have them as mentors, because I've had some wonderful mentors in my career. Tony Robbins and so many other amazing coaches. And now to have Winston and Shane, I feel is a cherry on top, you might say, because they've got longevity there behind them. They've got that experience and I'm learning from them big time. And, you know, some of the things I'm learning, things I didn't think I would learn, but I'm really enjoying it, very honoured. Yeah, Winston's got so much knowledge. I mean, I know when I sit down and have off the record chat with him, we can spend hours and hours and hours talking about decades worth of politics and his memory of events is just crystal clear. You know, and we've done this several times. That's why I enjoy spending time with Winston, because he's been around politics for as long as I have. And we sometimes have been on opposing sides and hearing his insights into the other side of the story from the side that I happened to have been on back then and now on any side. But it's always entertaining. And boy, I've just really witnessed a huge change in Shane Jones as well. You know, he had a bit of a reputation as a larrican, as a bit of a... Well, I wouldn't call it a party animal, but let's just say less serious about the game of politics. And since the election or indeed in the lead up to the election, I've slowly noticed that change changed in a huge way. Yes, yes. And one thing you'll notice, I don't know if you have or not, that sometimes less is more. You don't need to speak for a long time to get your message out. And that's one of the things I love about both of them, particularly Winston. But I don't know if you heard Shane in the house the other day when he spoke for about five minutes on one of the recent bills that are coming through. And, you know, I had to contain... I was sitting behind him. I had to contain myself. I just wanted to roar out loud with laughter, but I really had to contain myself because I knew the camera was there. He's just brilliant. He's brilliant with words and he says it in a loud, but eloquent way you might say. Well, that's the thing I like about Maori politicians is they've learnt the art of oratory, you know, and both Winston and Shane have an immense vocabulary. You know, they'll use a complex word when, you know, someone like Jacinda Ardern would have used and mispronounced a simple word. The two of them have got perfect denunciation. I mean, watching Winston and Shane Jones pour the Maori Party activists back into the bottle almost on a daily occurrence is a real pleasure to watch. One thing I said to one of my colleagues the other day when Shane was speaking and another event was, oh, gee, I forgot to bring my thesaurus with me. Yeah. And what you usually do if somebody says that and you say, what sort of dinosaur is that? Yes, true. I also noticed in your maiden speech that you were talking about the advice of your mother, particularly after the death of your first husband. Yes. And I looked at those comments that you made and I thought, boy, you know what, Tanya's actually got the right advice there from her mother for now for the next journey of your life in parliament, you know, where you can be ground down by the system. You can be frustrated at certain things. You can be unhappy about whatever. But your mother was right. It's up to you. Nobody cares more about you than you. Yes. Yes. And actually, another thing my mother used to say to me, which I hold very strongly is, Tanya, no one is better than you. You know, so often we can get into that place if I'm not good enough. Oh, I don't have the skills to do this, whatever. And then I'd hear my mother saying that, Tanya, no one is better than you. She's been saying that to me since I was a teenager. But also, yes, you've got to make yourself happy as well. Only you can do this. And I just thank goodness, thank God for that amazing advice from her because it's so simple, yet so correct. Yeah. I mean, in that little one about that you just added in now, that's so true is one of my mentors, a personal friend for many, many years. He was brought up in a household with not much money or anything, but was always told, every one of the four kids in that family was told, there's no one better than this family. You know, if you're in this family, then you can't be defeated. And all four of them went on to become multi-millionaires driven by the fact that they're the best and they were knew they were best because their mother always told them they were the best. Yeah, well, look, comparison from an early age is something that we do, right? And it's one of the worst things you can do for yourself is to compare to another human being. Yeah, look at your own progress and celebrate that. And I don't think enough people do that often enough, that personal reflection time where they can say, well, things are looking pretty grim. But if I look over here, I've done that and I've done that and I've done that. And I got this feedback here. And once you start making a list of all the things that are good, you find out actually, you know, there's a whole lot of stuff here. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. And look, you know, speaking about Tony Robbins earlier, one of the skills that I did learn as being a Tony Robbins coach and being part of that environment is the importance of celebrating your successes. And we used to have weekly phone calls. No, actually, they were three times a week where all the coaches used to get together and we'd have a call. The first half an hour of the call were all of the coaches sharing celebrations, their own personal celebrations. It's one of the skills that if you can master that without feeling like I'm self-centred, it is going to be one of the things that gets you through life and write them down. I used to encourage my clients write down all of the things that you feel proud of when you showed up as a courageous person, when you cared for another human being, when you sat next to someone who was sick, write them all down. And one day you will need them to go back and look at and go, gosh, I am OK, I am worthy. I mean, often it takes a personal crisis to have a breakthrough to understand these things. And in your case, it was the death of your husband. In my case, it was it was a stroke. But but, you know, and I was sitting there in the hospital, you know, thinking, phew, that was a close run thing and nearly died there. But it changed me and it changed the way that I looked at things. And I again, I go back to my mentor, Paul, he used to say all the time, if it's to be, it's up to me. Yes, right. And so I decided that I wanted to live and I wanted to change my life and I wanted to do a whole lot of things. But I had a few challenges, you know, physically to get over to do that. But I've just single-mindedly said about doing that. And while you had Tony Robbins echoing in the back of your head, I had Brian Tracy echoing in the back of my head. Yes. Yes. Right. Because again, it was Paul, he said, Cam, if you want to be a salesman in my company, you're going to have to understand the psychology of selling. And so, you know, I went out, I said, oh, how do I do that? And I found out that you could buy some CDs and they're really expensive back then. You know, hundreds and if not thousands of dollars worth of sea. But I did it. I bought them, played them in the car and I was driving around, never had music on. I just brainwashed myself with the psychology of selling and became the number one salesperson in that organization for what I was selling. But, you know, I get asked by politicians, right? What do I need to do to be a successful politician? I said, well, you need to learn to learn to sell yourself. Yeah. One of the things I often say to people is they say to me, how are you going? Are you enjoying it? And yeah. And you know, look, well, why the thing I come back and I say is, well, one thing I've learned is that you really do have to have a high level of emotional intelligence intelligence, a high EQ in order to be in this environment. Well, in any environment, I feel like, well, you really need it in this game. You're going to be on your game for that because there's, you know, a multitude of emotions. It's frustration. You know, the system is designed to frustrate you. It's not designed for quick decisions and things being made. And you may want to do something and be screaming to do something. But you feel like you can't do something because the system doesn't allow you to do that. How do you deal with those sorts of things? Well, I've learned now that, you know, if I go back to the Tony Robbins thing, we are really trained on how to focus on an outcome, help your client, focus on that outcome and what is the most effective and efficient and fastest way to get there, right? So for me, it's about results, quick results. I've learned that, hey, Tarn, things aren't going to happen as fast as you would like them to. So that is most definitely a big lesson. Nothing wrong with not focusing on the outcome, but just accept that the journey there may take a little bit longer. So there's one thing. Yeah. I mean, there's things that you can do in the government's 100 day plan, for example, where they actually physically changed laws and done all of these sorts of things very quickly. Yes. But the effects of those decisions take months, if not years, to start to see results. And that's where I think there's a disconnect out there in the community. You think that politicians can wave a magic wand and make things happen. And I always say to them, well, they can wave the wand, but sometimes the magic takes a little bit of time to work. Yes, yes. And so that's why there was the urgency, if I could use that word and witness of doing a lot of the things that we did in that first 100 days, knowing that the results may not show up for a little bit longer. But we still have to do these vital things to start with in order for the fruits to now be shown. So hence the urgency. Well, yeah. And speaking of urgency, I thought it was highly ironic for the Labour Party to be kicking up and screaming about how urgency subverts democracy. And I thought, hello, were you people not looking in the mirror when you subverted democracy with all of your urgency and COVID rules and everything else? And here they are thinking that we've forgotten about that. And a lot of us haven't. Some of us haven't forgotten at all. I just want to hold up a sign. Projection, projection. Exactly. I mean, they used urgency all the time for ridiculous things. You know, the urgency that's been used in the last 100 days. There's some marginal calls on that. But the things that you promised to deliver. So you deliver them. We had to do it. And look, we had a few things, you know, interrupt us along the way. We had a lot of maiden speeches in that first 100 days. Of course, if there's those passing, which was such an awful, sad thing, we wanted to respect that and that. So there were a lot of things that happened, hence it was busy in the end. Now, you're on a couple of select committees, aren't you? Science and technology or whatever the full economic development, science and innovation and social services and community. You couldn't get two different things, but they're kind of connected, aren't they? Well, they are. But also I'm I'm an accountant by trade. Remember, that's my background, commerce. So I love economic development for that reason, because we're just doing some of the reviews of organizations and my background is audit. So I'm really enjoying that. And of course, the social services side of things. I trained to be a therapist in my mid 30s and life coach, you know, so I've got this real love of helping humanity in that area and my love of mental health and that sort of thing. So very different. But for me, I'm I'm really enjoying that difference. You know, having a business background, having an accountancy background, you know better than most people that what gets measured gets done. Yes, yes, when you don't measure, it doesn't doesn't get done. That's right. And we've seen over the past six years before the election, an awful lot of things that were delivered with what I call motherhood and apple pie statements and wishful thinking, but no ability to measure the outcomes of those decisions. And I mean, a classic example is the specious argument that was used to create two different health systems on the basis that it's going to be better for Maori. But the the Maori health organization had no methods of measurement. In fact, the other health system had no measures of whether there was any progress. The famously Bill English was criticised for bringing in measures to see how long people had been in the emergency department before being seen to labor abolished all of those things. And of course, waiting lists blew out accordingly. So do you see you starting to see this in some of your select committee work where you're getting ministers come to report back on things and there may be initiatives that were implemented by the previous government where there's been no discernible process, despite millions of dollars being spent. Well, there's a famous saying, you cannot manage what you do not measure. And that's why they call it a smart goal, because the second letter M stands for measurable. Is it measurable? Is it measurable at the end of the project? Do you have milestones every say three months to measure here? So that is how I work with goals and that sort of thing. So it is a bit of an adjustment for me to see how some things are being measured or not measured in order to achieve outcomes. You really do have to have a measurable result. There's there's no way around it, really. So I must admit that is a bit of an adjustment for me. Yes. It would be shocking learning, learning to keep my mouth zipped and going, OK, how can we do things differently here? Speaking of doing things differently, you know, I imagine you get the same sort of calls that I get. Cam, you've got to, or in your case, we turn to you, you've got to stand up for this or Tony, you've got to speak out about this. Tony, you've got to be, you know, fronting this. How do you deal with those sorts of things, knowing that you can't be everywhere all the time and be whilst that person thinks that's a very high priority, there's the priorities of what the party's wanting to implement and the government's wanting to implement, which may kind of override what they see as a product. How do you deal with that? Well, the first thing I say to people and I do get a lot of those requests is just know and trust that I'm hearing you, even though you may not get a response in the email, because I get a few, just know that I have read everything. And I'm watching everything. And also, yes, I am part of a party. So, you know, we do have to work together as a team and I and we are part of a government. So things may not happen as fast as some people would like. And, you know, I can understand a frustration there, but I just want to convey the message, be patient. Know that you're being heard. Because the system kind of slows everything down. I mean, let's talk about the stages of legislation, right? So you've got to write a bill, which is then a draft bill. Yes. And then get introduced into Parliament and you have the introduction of that and this reading, the first reading. Then what happens to to a bill? Well, going through the correct process, then to select committee, which could be around six months, they then report back to the house. And then there's a second reading. And then there's a third reading. And there's feedback time in there as well, so that the MPs can on the select committee can hear what people are submitting. Yes, absolutely. Often they ignore it, if it's, you know, particular agenda. And I've seen it multiple times, you know, with, say, for example, firearms laws, there's like thousands of submissions that are opposing the bill, but the government passes it anyway. Right. Is it a waste of time for those people to present to the select committee or give submissions to the committee? Oh, no, I wouldn't say it's a waste of time because, you know, we get them and I get them all printed out personally and I read them. Yeah, for sure. Those of us on the committee, we do take the time to ensure that everything is read and noted and people can come and do oral submissions as well. So obviously they're listened to. So nothing is a waste of time. No. So but all of this is all controlled by the rules of Parliament, by the order paper. And if something's an important bill, then it'll go through a little bit quicker. Yes, yes. And then something that's, you know, fixing up a mistake from some legislation from 30 years ago or something like that. There's not a sense of urgency to repair that, is there? Well, it depends on what it is. And, you know, know that this is all big learning for me as well. This first year is a great big learning curve for me going, oh, wow, is this how this happens? And, you know, sitting in the house and watching it happen in that that's why I'm often in the house. I may not need to be, but I often go and sit in there just to watch and observe because it's the best way to learn how the system works and how the process works. And it doesn't always go as fast as time you would like it to. But it's just the way it is. I'm I'm one of these boom, boom, boom. Let's get things done quickly and so big lessons for me. Yeah, there are other ways, too, apart from, you know, legislation and things like that, that people can feel they've been heard as well. You know, but we saw famously thousands of Kiwis turn up to parliament to want to be heard. And every single MP that was in that house and the media sat back and said, well, we don't want to hear you. That was a moment in history, wasn't it? And it's still glossed over. It's glossed over by the media for whatever reason. Some might say that they're corrupted by the Public Interest Journalism Fund or that they were fully on board with what the regime was doing at that time. But either way, those people were not heard then at that time. It's important that the people of New Zealand are heard. And that's why I was really proud to be able to go on the steps last week with Winston and I'm proud to go on the steps. I think it's next week, actually, during my dinner time to hear again people who are coming and to bring like to some things that we may not know about, you know, so I think it's important that all New Zealanders are heard. And it's important for MPs to show that they are actually listening and not standing there like an elite, basically saying, well, look at the riffraffs turned up or send in the send in the storm troopers and clear them away. Well, that's one of the reasons I just love New Zealand first. And I love our leaders because they really do believe we must put all New Zealanders first. What's the biggest frustration that you've felt since coming into Parliament? I don't know if it's frustration. It's more I'll use the word a bit of a challenge is the midnight finishes. Yeah, I won't I won't deny in admitting that. Gosh, I'm an early bird and no matter what time I go to bed, I get up early. So that has been a real adjustment for me staying up till 10 midnight and then waking up, say it for the next morning, you know, and then having to do another 10 o'clock finish or 6 p.m. Whatever that is. So that that's been that's been tough for me and I'm getting used to it and the sitting, you know, the sitting has been something I'm not used to. I live in a home that's got three sets of stairs. So I'm always moving up and downstairs. So that that physical side of things has been probably my personal biggest challenge. So the words, not frustration. Let me think. I can't say that anything has frustrated me truthfully. I've gone in with such an open mind because it's so new. And I know the importance of the art of acceptance. OK, Tarn, today is going to be a tough day, maybe, because it's going to finish in at midnight, accept it, just accept it. And that's helped me, you know, just take one day at a time, Tarn, this week, one day at a time and accept that at times, you're going to feel discomfort. Just sit with the discomfort and then you'll wake up tomorrow fresh, you know. So that's how I've kind of lived. But I can't say that the word frustration has been there. Yeah, the feedback I get from a lot of new MPs when they get in there. And I've warned them about it. They've kind of forgotten it because they've just focused on getting into Parliament, but I always say to them, when you get in there, you better have learned how to read fast because you're never going to read more than you have in your life than when you're in Parliament. Yeah. Yeah. I agree, actually, I agree. So I've learned to really just focus on some of the big, the the paragraphs. You know, I mean, I've learned, I don't know if the word speed read, but to really pull out the important stuff. It's all important, but you have to find a way to get through all of that paperwork. Yeah. I mean, that is the feedback that I get from a lot of people. They go, oh, my God, I didn't realise how much reading I was going to have to do. And you look at some of the MPs that are there and you're thinking, you really haven't even read a book, have you? And now you're having to read legislation and, you know, all of this correspondence and everything's in writing everywhere you go. Yeah. If you're a minister, the the requirements for reading are even higher. Yes. There's briefing papers and a lot of people don't understand this. They think that cabinet sits around and has cups of tea and, you know, does does whatever they think cabinet does. What they don't realise is that every weekend, cabinet ministers get a box delivered full of briefing papers, which they need to read before they go to cabinet on Monday so that they can, you know, have a sensible discussion. And it's the same for MPs and select committees. You know, there's an awful lot of reading that needs to be done. Yes. And they'll be easy because, you know, with the background and business and being an auditor and you're always reading numbers and all of those sorts of things. But I could see other MPs would really struggle with this. And funny, you should say that because I I really do believe my past career as an auditor really helps me with the reading and the numbers because I kind of know where to go and what to look for. And I do believe that helps me. But I won't deny that, you know, I sometimes when is it on a Tuesday? I might come in and there's my big blue bag and it's really thick. Underneath it is all these papers and I go, Oh, they smoke. How am I going to get through that by Wednesday morning? Yeah, there is a lot of reading, for sure. But look, you get used to it and you learn the art of how to how to pull out the important stuff. Yeah, I mean, that's the other thing, isn't it? You go down to Parliament and you think, OK, I need a bag to go to work carry papers home and things like that. And whatever bag you choose, it's not big enough. Oh, for sure. And I'm noticing I'm getting a really sore neck. From carrying the heavy bag with all the papers. Yeah, what you should do is get one of those cabin bags with the wheels and the trolley thing. Right. Yes, I do. Lawyers that do that. They've got fancier ones, obviously. But that way you don't need to carry it. But you are dragging it. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So you're learning the tricks. I'm learning all the tricks. Yeah, well, there's a lot to learn. It's over can be overwhelming for new MPs. This is why I always say we really shouldn't have any MPs that are in Parliament who are under 40 because they kind of haven't learned a lot of life tricks before 40. You really do need to have a very resilient mind. I do really believe that. And you've got to take care of yourself. You've got to physically and emotionally take care of yourself. And in the short time that I've been in Parliament, I am learning how to take care of myself physically. And I watch what I eat. I make sure I get to the gym. I really take care of myself because, you know, what we put into our body is going to be how we are going to function and you need to be alert physically and mentally. You need to be alert. I'm very lucky. My husband is so supportive and he'll listen to me when on those days when I'm feeling tired, I've got some good support networks. You really do need to take care of yourself in order to function well. Push on. You know, I was talking to somebody the other day and they said blokes suffer through this sort of trauma. I mean, it kind of is traumatic. You know, all of a sudden you're chucked in the deep end and you're expected to have all of these answers and think things through. We're talking about how you let off steam or how you cope with pressure and things like that. And I was reminded of a scene in the movie, Fury, with Brad Pitt in it. And, you know, he's a hard bit and commander of a tank and he's killing Germans and all of these sort of. And there's one moment there where he gets told about somebody dying and he kind of just sort of wavers and then he walks off between the truck, two trucks and then just sort of ducks down, has a little moment, you know, sheds a few tears and stands up. He's got his game face back on and then he's back at it. And I think, you know, sometimes you need to have those little breaks. You might have a little tear come out or whatever. Just have that little moment, get your game face back on and then go back into it. 100 percent. And that's practice the pause, I call it. And whatever you do in that pause, whether it be five minutes of breathing, that's probably the best thing you can do, actually, is just watch your breathing, move your body, get up and go to the bathroom. If that's all it takes, just move your body in some way. Even if it's just for five minutes, even if we've only got an hour for a dinner break during urgency, I will use that hour maybe to walk back to my hotel. I'll do a few press ups, move my body in some way. And even if it's just for 15 minutes doing that, and then I walk back and I feel very different. So there are many things you can do. You've just got to do it. Actually, you've just got to do it. I notice I'm going to church more. And it's not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing. I love going to my midday mass, just local here in Remuera. And things like that bring me peace. You know, so you've got to bring everything to be at the top of your game. It's funny that you say it brings you peace because I've found that in the past year, you know, with significant challenges that I'm facing, that everyone looks at me, you know, on billboards on the back of buses. There's cam soldiering on and they don't see the personal stuff in the background. And I've found just going on Saturday morning to church, that hour or hour and a half, two hours at church does bring a sense of peace, a sense of calm. It looks like the eye of a storm, you know, you're in this in somewhere. This isn't going to hurt me. Everything that can all wait when I can get out of here in two hours. I can then get back to it, but I will have this little peaceful haven. Yeah, yeah. And then the trick is to do that every day in your own space at home, even if it's for five minutes. Yeah, it could be a power nap, could be irritation. It could be, like you said, some press ups or sit ups or something like that. Even 10 minutes on a treadmill. It's 100. It's different. You're getting out of your head. All of the stuff that's been weighing you down and just freeing your body up. Yeah, it's good to hear that you're doing those sorts of things. But again, it's your mother's advice in there. You've got this little voice in the back of your mind and you can literally hear your mother speaking, can't you? Oh, come on, Tony, you need to look after yourself now. Yes, yes, for sure. And, you know, I know that they would be so happy that I'm doing this at this stage of my life. And I believe I've got a couple of angels looking over me. And that gives me a bit more of a why, you know, on those days where you feel fatigued, I go, I've got someone looking over me. And I just go, get up and just do it. Do you ever wonder? I mean, I do. But do you wonder, sit there wondering and thinking about people who don't have a faith or a belief? How they cope with things? Well, I don't know, personally. Well, I do know how a lot of people have coped that don't have a faith because I've coached them, you know, and people often turn to food, alcohol, drugs, that's how they numb themselves. That's how they soothe themselves from the pain. So I have seen a difference and some of them then go, OK, yes, I can believe in something greater than myself. I don't know what that is, but I will, you know, do something in order for me to look outside of myself to get that strength. And eventually they go down that path. But sometimes people don't. And it's sad, yeah. You know, I always explain to people that are, you know, I that I'm talking to or counselling or helping through their particular pain that whilst they might not be at the same level that I'm at with, you know, faith or anything like that, I explain to them about Pascal's wager. And no doubt you're familiar with Pascal's wager, where Pascal said, you know, and he was an amazing person, you know, a mathematician, a physicist and a huge believer in God. And he says that it's better to believe in something, even if it's not true, right? And you die and you find out it's not true. It doesn't matter because your life was better by believing in something than believing in nothing. And it's those little tricks, I think. I mean, that tricks is probably the wrong word, techniques, little techniques like that to that can help you get through. And I try to explain to people, OK, you might not want to come to church, but have you considered this? And when you explain them to them, Pascal's wager and you say, what have you got to lose? It's like you can't win a lottery if you don't buy a ticket. And Pascal's wager is saying, buy the ticket. Yes, just buy the ticket because you've got better prospects so opened up to you. So I find that a powerful way of explaining faith to some people. Yeah, when people often ask me the question about politics and my faith and and I say to them, well, I pray about everything. And I said, OK, Lord, if you want me in in Parliament, then I trust that I will be placed there and show me the way show me the way. And then when I was there, I went, OK, you want me here, keep showing me why. And that is my constant prayer. Keep showing me why and giving me the strength. And that helps me a lot. Well, there's that old saying, isn't it? Seek and you shall find. Yeah, absolutely. If you're not seeking, if you're not finding the things, show me why I should be here. Yeah, if you're looking for the reasons why you should be there, you'll find them. Yeah, yeah. And that's, you know, in answering some of your questions earlier about, you know, dealing in in Parliament. That's why I suppose I'm surprisingly coping very well and enjoying it. And I think that's because I've surrendered so much. Yeah, you know what I mean? I just believe there's a bigger picture here and you're part of the process, Tanya. So roll your sleeves up, be prepared to work hard, be prepared to feel fatigued at times and not have a lot of sleep, but just keep rolling your sleeves up and taking one step at a time, one day at a time. And the road will show itself. You'll be shown and I can hear all the Tony Robbins training coming out for a minute. But but that's because I recognize some of them from the sort of training I've had from my mentors. You know, another guy, Gary, you taught me a lot about sales and he said to me, Cam, you know, you think you're thinking like this problem is like an elephant and that's on your plate and you're going to have to eat an elephant. He said, but do you know how you eat an elephant? No, mate, how do you eat an elephant? He said, one bite at a time, one bite at a time, one bite at a time. And then he said then he said his next little bit, and that's the bit that I like as well. He says, but what you should do is bite off more than you can chew chew like hell. And that's what you've done, isn't it? You bit off more than you can chew. You're in parliament. You're outside your comfort zone. Well, that was that. Yeah, I was just going to say that. Just keep stepping out of your comfort zone and then you'll feel comfortable. And then when you feel comfortable, step out a little bit more. And that's what I'm doing. You know, it's like standing up and doing your maiden speech. Even though I've spoken publicly before, you know, this was different. And then now standing in the house. It's more personal, isn't it? A maiden speech is more personal. You're exposing a little bit of your life to everybody who's watching, you know, and it can be scary doing that sort of thing. I mean, I do it on this show and people say, oh, you're so brave. And I'm thinking, well, I just did it. Well, that was actually exposing myself was easy, truthfully, because I've exposed so much more on the books that I've written. Someone said to me, God, how do you feel now that you've spilled your guts to the world? Yeah, relief. Yeah, but yeah. Because you've unburdened yourself. That's the thing, isn't it? When you actually share yourself with people that in the act of sharing yourself, just washes relief through your body. Well, that's what I've found. Yeah, but more importantly, you're touching someone out there who's going through the same thing. And there are so many people out there who carry shame and keep their mouths closed. They don't want to open it. But for someone else to go, oh, my God, Tanya Ungevitt, she had eating issues. Oh, my God, Tanya Ungevitt, she went through that. Then they'll go, now I don't feel alone. And that's the key. You know, you're sharing yourself to help others out of suffering. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing you mentioned, Shane. That's really interesting because so many people beat themselves up, worried about what other people think about a particular issue. And then when they finally crack because they always do, you're always crack and you share that thing that you thought was so shameful and everyone goes, I don't worry about that. I know, nothing. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And that's where that whole comparison thing is that we talked about earlier on on the call, you know. Yeah, you've just got to stop doing it. You do. And we're going to have to stop talking because other. We go all over the place, you and I, don't we? Well, that's what I like doing because, you know, people say to me, how do you prepare for an interview? I said, well, I usually read a couple of things, but I just have a conversation. Yes. And in having that conversation, I discover more about the person than if we had a prescriptive method of doing something. And that's what reality radio is all about. It's about having conversations courageous or otherwise. Yeah, their conversations that can be had. We're sharing information, you know, mutually. You're sharing, I'm sharing. The listeners can hear that and then they can like you exactly like you say, they can think, oh, hell, well, my problems aren't that bad. You know, Tony Young said that or Cam had that. Well, if they can get through it, then I can. And I kind of treat my radio show as a little bit of therapy for myself as well. Well, it's, you know, people are seeing the human behind the politician. People are seeing the human behind the radio announcer. And if I was to just rewind back a little bit on our conversation earlier, you talked about when you had a stroke and then you said, and I decided. And that was a very key thing that you said today. You made a decision and that's what we all need to do. Make a decision on what you want for your life and who you want to be. And then just do it. Just do it. Yeah. Just do it. And that is the key thing. You have to make a decision and fear, right? Or shame or whatever is holding you back from making a decision pauses everything for that person until they can make a decision. Yeah. What they don't realise is and not making a decision, they're making a decision. Yeah. Yeah. Make a decision. It might not be so great. We'll make another another decision. Make another one. Yeah. Yeah. That didn't work out so well. I'm better. I'm better. Revisit that and make another decision. Yeah. Don't waste another precious day of your life. Make a decision today. There you go, Cam. What a great way to end our call. Yes, it's a fantastic way. And, Tanya, thank you so much for coming back on the show. And I'm sure you'll be back frequently this year. My pleasure. It's always a pleasure chatting to you, Cam. No worries. Thank you, Tanya. You know, I really think Tanya is adding a brilliant and refreshing dimension to Parliament. And I believe that she'll be a huge asset to our Parliament. She seems very well grounded, and I just love the advice of her dear mum. Tell me your thoughts on what Tanya Uncovich had to say by emailing inbox at realitycheck.radio or text to 2057. Thank you for tuning in to RCR, Reality Check Radio. If you like what you're listening to or dislike what you're listening to, either way, we want to hear from you. Get in touch with us now. You can text us with your message to 2057. That's 2057. Or email us at inbox at realitycheck.radio. We would love to hear from you, so connect with us today.