 Magandang araw pa uli sa inyong lahat, na rito na naman tayo para siya isa pang kabanata ng kultura, sining at iba pa. At ang ating paksa ngayong araw ay ang napakalagang sining ng pelikulang Pilipino. At ang programa po ang ito ay ating napala sa inyo ng TVUP ng Universidad ng Pilipinas. Kasama ko may araw upang kapayan ng kapayamin ng ating panauhin ay ang batikang makata at kritiko na si Dr. Neil Garcia. At isang bagong miembro ng ating panel ang ating kaibigan na profesora ng araling sining isa rin scholar at kritiko si Cecil de La Paz. Neil, gusto mong ipakilalang ating panauhin? Atang ating mga guests na iyon, all of them are filmmakers. Let's begin with the right-most guest. This is Adolf Alex Jr. He's a very famous filmmaker of course, a graduate of Paman Tasa na Nuso ng Maynila, mas-congratuate. And multi-awarded, internationally-awarded, a nationally-recognized filmmaker. They will all get the chance to introduce themselves actually, so that's just a brief introduction for now. And to my right is of course the director of the UP Film Institute and a professor of film in the College of Mascom of UPD Demand. And of course I also know why the filmmaker, you may be familiar with the latest work on Niko Kien, a biopic on Niko Kien. From a very famous artistic plan, we had her sister Kiri as a guest in a previous episode. And beside her is the foremost chronicler of Quezon life in film Lemuel Lorca, who's a graduate of San Sebastiang College in Manila, grew up in Quezon and played volleyball in Niseul and will be soon doing a sports film. And he will talk about his projects as well. So probably now it's time to allow them to introduce themselves. First question has to do with, sort of just a description of your personal journey into this art form, what drew you to filmmaking and what was that journey like? Sa kaya nagsimula, para na kaya naging napasok sa pelikula? When I was younger, kapag hapon, pinapalabas yung mga lumang pelikula pag sang tanghale. So minsan nakikita ko siya. I was just amazed at how they were able to do some of the horror or fantastic films during that time. So I got interested with that. Tapos when I was in college, I took up mass communication, but malapit lang po kasi ang PLM sa CCP. So in between breaks, I would watch old Filipino films. So that's where I got my orientation to Filipino cinema. But formally, I took a workshop under the film development count. Then foundation pa siya of the Philippines under Nestor Tori. And then that's where I started. The script I wrote there won first prize in the contest and kinua po nila Tita Meads, kinuwati lang a pelikula. So that's where I started as a writer. But as a director, I joined Sinimalaya po in 2006 at second edition for Don Sol. That's my first film po. And then from then on, I did mostly films and now I'm also doing... So you're on the tour, you do both scripts and you direct? Not necessarily po. For some scripts na medyo, I think some people can write it better than me in terms of experience and knowledge sila po yung pinaksusulat ko. But for some films na I think I have a personal affinity with ako po yung naksusulat. So nakakailang pelikula ka ngayon? Ngayon po, I think I finished mga 30. 30? Nag-ha, wow. Very for the 2016. Ah po. Nag-ha na lang. Now it's sorry. Yes, okay. Okay, okay na. Actually, I come from a family of visual artists. So I would give tribute to my parents for exposing me and my sisters to watching a lot of films when we were growing up. My parents are a painter and a sculptor. Because Danny Dalena? Yeah. They made us watch all these silent films na. Charlie Chaplin comedies, Filini, Kurosawa films. And of course, Fantasia mga Disney and some Tagalog classics on television. So that's where I first fell in love with cinema. So since then, I decided to formally take up film studies here sa UP Dileman and also obtain my MFA film at the New York University. So a lot of extensive formal training in filmmaking? Yeah. I also took a workshop sa Mawolfan Film Institute where I was exposed to experimental cinema na ma. So I would say my early films were mostly short experimental works. I was exploring film language. Later on na develop ang love ko for social political, historical themes only recently. How many po like films sa view? I've done seven documentary films na, mostly full-length, and siguro mga 15 total na, including the short films. That's a lot. Siguro tingnan din natin yung background na Manila na. Ayun. Well, I started ng 2005 sa TV po muna sa isa travel show. But did you get training in college film? No, I graduated kasi marketing yung course ko. Pero sinubukan ko mo na. A workshop came after five years of working for KB. Tapos sobrang clickage kasi na yung industry. So there's no way for me na makapasok na yung industry sa thingin ko. So sabi ko para nakalimutan ng yung pangarap to work sa television o sa film ko na. So ano nangyari, when I was given the opportunity to write for a travel show, ito advantage na pinaginigay nila sa akin yung pagsulatang script. And then at the time, walang director, sabi ko, might as well give it to me na rin. Ayaw pang ibigay ng producer, but she gave it to me anyway. So do na nags-start ng 2005. And nar until 2009, na nag-workshop din ako sa Mawal Fund, do na nags-start yung formal education sa paggawaan ng pili ko. Pero nung malit pa ako para di kami nanonod kasi nung mga drama sa TV. So what happened, after mapanod yung drama sa TV, papagawa ko sa mga ati ko, yung mga drama na panod namin. Di stage namin yung sa kamara, sa kwarto, tapos sa school, ganun-ganun din. So the love for films and mga palabas sa television, it goes way back. Nung malit pa ako. Started really early. All right. So maybe we can turn to more contemporary issue, right? Which affects all of us and all filmmakers in particular. This distinction between independent and mainstream cinema in the Philippines, I'm wondering if they can share their thoughts on that distinction, whether they think the distinction is real or whether the lines are actually blurred between these two realms. We begin with Adolf again. I think by definition, kasi di ba ako, when you say it's an independent film, it's just produced outside of the studio. So lexically it still applies up to now that they have big studios that produce the regular fare. And then you have small studios or you have independent film companies that produce the independent films. But now kasi, like what's happening outside of the Philippines, some of the independent film gets distributed by mainstream studios when they see that there's a possibility or there's a market for a bigger audience. So that's when an independent film crosses over. That's fine. But I think you do have think of the recent success, kita-kita, which actually, from the inception, I think already was gesturing towards mainstream... Yes, but they produced it first by themselves, by Spring Films. And then they asked for distribution for Star Cinema or Viva. And then finally they landed a deal with Viva. So that's when they got a bigger, a bigger distribution network. So that's why they got more theaters. But I think more than that, the more important thing to look at is that there's a blur now because you get mainstream actors also. You also get mainstream actors to work in independent films, which was siguro the case also outside of the Philippines. So I think it's... you blur the line now because you get actors from mainstream. You also get production people from the mainstream. We have mainstream people doing an independent film by producing themselves. So there's a blur now. But I think we should focus more on the content of the films rather than labeling it as mainstream or independent. But isn't that a bit of a problem because what is good about independent cinema is that it's independent. Okay, so if you have now this infiltration of mainstream forces, which is really capital, isn't it? Then maybe some of that independence goes out the window. Malaki ba yung... malaki ba yung pag-akaiba ng budget alimbawa sa mainstream At ano yung mga factors na which you take into account kung yung isipin mo ito in mainstream ko nalang ito o ito, hindi nalang ito. What factors come into play dito? Well, sa akin po kasi para sa akin, you have to define first what kind of film are you going to make para kanini ito, para saan ito. So from the conception palang ng paggawa mo ng pelikula, alam mo na kung papahan mo ito ilalabas. Is it going to be for a bigger audience na mas-commercial or pang independent pang festival sa Pilipinas or outside of country? So dun sa paggawa palang alam mo na kung pano mo i-puposition yung pelikula mo. The point for conceptualization is really a question of formula, isn't it? The mainstream cinema may formula, may mama genres and their buttons you need to push, right? So if you want to have commercial success, basically push certain buttons. Kailangan may big name stars, kailangan may ganitong kasing conflict. Kung romcom yan may conventions yan, but in indie, wala dapat. Basically the sky's the limit and you're free more or less, right? So I think that's the point of conception. But the question is the blurring has to happen when you have forces. Like you know, like yolo paskwal sort of producing the indie film, right? And things like that. My question is is that a good thing for the indie movement? If you are allowing now these sort of influences to come in? Sorry. Medyo kasi naabutan ko pa yung panahon when you say independent film, no? Especially when I was doing workshop in Mawalpan. When you talk about independent, also I have not really done any mainstream films, no? So I would say that I have more experience doing independent films. Pero naabuto ko pa kasi yung panahon ng philosophy or definition of independent films are non-narrative, non-commercial. And these are the documentaries, the short films, no? So wala talaga siyang any semblance of profit or commercial elements, no? Pero I think that's, I would now say that that's more alternative talaga. And when you talk about independent films, talagang it is very much separate. It's a counter-cinema. It really goes opposition to the mainstream practices. Nang ayon, eba na siya. Are you saying, sorry, there is now a mainstream independent and there is an independent independent. Well, I would say... I would say... It's really difficult for you to be independent. Mahirap kasi kung binary. Mahirap yung binary, kailangan may spectrum talaga. And that also gives liberates everyone to choose where they feel they see themselves, no? Kasi mahirap kasi rin yung mga critics nila rin yung nagbabaks sa film makers, no? And that's why it's important to articulate nasa ka sa spectrum na yan? For whom are you making the film, you know? And para sa akin, I don't really mind doing mainstream or independent as long as you're doing best practices. I think, you know, pinaka-importante talaga na filang rin pagusapan. So for profit or for I think particularly for adults and for them, we can work in television, no? So that's mainstream already, isn't it? Yes, yes. So how do you sort of reconcile that with your more independent leads? Kasi parang ako, like when I look at the material, the impetus to do it supersedes whether it's an independent or a mainstream project. Like if you have a good story that you wanted to tell, pero siyempre you have a genre to it. Sometimes a mainstream studio. Like for example, I did batanes for JMA films before. They asked us if we have something. I told them we heard a story about a Taiwanese fisherman na trap in batanes. And then of course he met a local and they fell in love. So sabi ko, that can be a material that I wanted to do. So we pitched it to them. They liked it. So then it becomes a mainstream film because you have big actors in it. But the way it was conceived there were no interventions. Walang nagsabi na. We want this, we want that. So in the end parang kaya as a filmmaker I would still always go to the best story and given the most limited and limited compromise kasi it compromise is not always bad naman. So it means you just win whatever works for both parties. So I did also a very independent film in batanes called Kadin which is about a young boy who just lost his goat. And he's just searching in batanes. So those are two different genres at sabi nga nimi the other ones very counter cinema because you just have no actors all from batanes. And then you have the other one who are who have big actors. So it's but at the end of it it's just the story that you wanted to tell as a director for me. So given the circumstance na magagawa siya be it a small film if it doesn't need a 14 million budget why would you naman sa come to doing it a 14 million we can do it 4 or 5 million. Natama yung circumstance. So it's just a matter of parang you have to do this story so do it with the best sabi nga nyo with the best practice and with the best environment available be it a mainstream or an independent film. But you brought up the word compromise and it's a loaded word. So I'm wondering just how far are you willing to compromise? Just as a general question you said compromise because you have a good project you have a good story. So just how far are you willing to go? May mga bata tayong filmmakers na nanonod sa programan ito they would be interested in knowing ano classic kembuha yung sa maging director at ano classic mga compromiso yung kailangan mong igawin na when you're working now in the industry or kaya ay isang independent filmmaker. Ano yung mga thoughts nyo dung sa idea na ito? Mayroon nga bang compromise yung nangyayari? Compromiso. Of course, there will always be compromises. Like pagsabing ane adult kanina pag gawa ng concepto na piliigla diba. So gawin na lang kung sanpossibling pwede ng ating may producer ito kailang natin compromise sa producer na makukuhon natin. Let's say kapag pinipinage mo ito sa mas malaking company. We'll be looking for some specifics na kailangan mo nga. Sa aking naman kung hindi naman ganun ka laki andi peresa sa pagkakwento mo kung hindi masyado ma-affectuhan yung narrative mo. Ok lang naman sa aking parang nagkakatulungan lang kami ng producer. Ang collaborative art ng filmmaking that you always need to work with other people. And kung merong mas magad ng idea na ibabato sa aking yung producer or kung sino mga kasama ko sa piliigla then I'll take it. I-compromise ko yung original idea ko as long as hindi mga kasiradun sa kabuan kukuning ko yung idea. Pero dito yung idea na may hangganan yun? Hanggan sa anong idea. Definitely. Kasi merong ka naman kwento na gustong i-quento dito. So as much as gusto mo yung may produce yung piliigla mo pero sobrang compromise na yung gagawin mo. Hindi ko gagawin. Siguro ituhug na natin yung sinabi kayo ay interesado sa mga particular na kwento. Siguro we could have a round na unsapan. Ano yung mga kwento na nainteresado kayong i-import through filmmaking? Kalo recently yung mga kwento ko naman is about my hometown sa Mauban sa Amin, sa Kesson province. So lakawa ko yung idea sa kilado, kilames, nagsushoot sila sa provincia. May mga kwento sila na ginagawa nila sa provincia. So sabi ko, laki ako sa Mauban. I'm sure there are a lot of stories in Mauban. So when I started, ginawa ko muna yung Mauban ng reseko din followed by Water Lemon din Ed's Project. So parang nasa bakurang ko yung kwento, I just need to keep my eyes open and my heart open and the stories are there. Makikita mo na siya doon. Sir, sir, napapansin ko yung mga yung mga documentary mot ng kulisa mga political, historical, saka mga literary figures. Alam na yung latest mon na pelikulat ng kulisa mga figures from the underground. Yes, yes. What led you to these parameters? Asigay. First of all, I like to talk about yung compromise. I've been quite fortunate me and my film crew, my small crew na whenever we pitched some topics na medyo my political content, we were able to find producers such as cinepidipino. Yung panel nila, they were willing to take risks because the main topic was Joma Season, founder of the established communist part of the Philippines and for it to be brought to commercial theaters. Ano naman sila, kumanggat naman sila. So I really appreciate those efforts. And because of that, that led me to pursue this kind of genre. Because normally when you talk about festivals, usually ano yung dominated yung narrative films. Pero for the first time sa cinepidipino, we were first batch. Hinalo nila yung documentary and the full-length narrative, which was for me very integral. And because of that support na enganyo kami na to continue this life to make creative documentary films na hindi lang siya is also very emotional and can be accessible to the audience. Now is the right time to do more documentaries, political documentaries, especially for this new generation who will be voting when they in the, you know, pag-voting Asians nila in 2020 by next election. Hopefully to inform them about our history. So that's why nakapocus kami ngayon sa... Yeah, your projects have been historical there. We think about it even when you cook in biopic is history. Yes, kasi maraming material on martial law na hindi lang tukul sa political prisoners. It's also about literature, culture. There's a lot of, just a wealth of materials on history and culture na I think dapat itawin natin sa kabataan nyo yun. Pero we want to give them that choice and that option na we're not dictating on them. We want to open, give them open ideas about what happened in the past. Meron ka pa bang dream project as far as documentaries go na gusto mo nga gawin talaga? Yes, I'd like to do more documentaries on Filipino writers, Carlos Bolosan and Jose Garcia Villia, which are important writers that influence many brilliant writers nowadays and they are not recognized. And especially Bolosan touches on the immigrant stories na and it's still relevant today under the Trump Administration. So I think it's going to be a very interesting project. So I hope patuloy. Bangan natin nyo. Well, just thinking of that sort of cross-partilization between the arts na you have literature and film, I'm thinking that what's very exciting about the filmmaking scene right now in the country is that it has already I think outpaced or outrun the fictional production of many young writers na. Kasi the films of our young filmmakers are covering areas of experience that have not been covered by the literary practitioners by the writers na. So that's quite interesting. But I'm thinking that at Saris already done it with Nikwokin, with Adolf and Lemuel, have you thought of working on literary material? Are there like favorite novels, Filipino novels or stories that you've read that you think might lend themselves well to a filmmaking treatment? Actually ang Filipino literature and I mean I was thinking like if you have a budget like you can do lam ang, for example, which is a very rich as watching mga, currently we have this crap of mga films, epic films and I was thinking if someone can do lam ang right, it can give a run for other product, I mean for Hollywood productions because publishing the complete epics of the kanaybukin na. So sabi ko that would be interesting and also even small stories, like short stories ay ang kalupi ni Benjamin Pasquale, I always remember and I was like that story so and then also yung mga Remember one of our best films is Manila, Maynila sa Kokon which is also a novel. I was also thinking I was also thinking then of doing parang a modern version of Nolly or Elphilly na the character is an OFW he goes back to the Philippines. So I think that's always a rich source of inspiration pero siyempre you have to think of the right, parang sabi ni Sarah like the right time to pull it off. Do you think in terms of a team because you know more or less the way you describe your filmmaking experience is solitary parin siya. When an idea or a story comes to you have you ever thought of thinking of of doing it as part of a team? And there are people you already like to work with? Hindi naman it's not necessarily that I'm looking for certain teams but I'm interested in characters like for example a team as in a team. For a team yes, I work regularly with my staff because if it's a production team that you work with it means parang you're like a family na rin so you go to the set always. Do you have a favorite script writer? I work with some script writers depending on the theme and also the subject matter because sometimes it would also take like I for myself cannot write like Death March I did a film called Death March see Rodi Vera wrote the script kasi nga I think sabi ko I don't have enough I read I know I read books about the Death March but of course Rodi has the capacity to be able to to meet all those things na pinagusapan so and Jerry Grash also for example wrote he wrote a short story I did a film called Isda which is based in Daibadi he was a god mother to a fish so it works differently I tend to to work with people I worked with before kasi nga you know the level of work that they can do and also since it's an independent film and you know you have a very strenuous shooting days it's good to work with people so it becomes a family also yes the question on using literary material for example and then idea of working with the same team the same set of people I've worked with Eros Atalia with Intoy Shokoy na Kaliya Marido that was a short film na-analysed na first prize sa palangka was the writer on the set revising the dialogue and things like that see Jerry kasi nag-translate na sa screenplay so Jerry and Eros was there they were all the they were all the time na nagsusiyos kami na Intoy Shokoy and then there's this new book na Eros na nagusap kami na baka gawin din namin or it's not that complicated pero I'm really interested din sa sa kwento namin sa Mauban we have this local hero called Gatuban so I'm really interested kasi nakasudat parang folk heroin yes meron na mga factsheets about him so I'm interested so given the right time at magaroon nantamang producer na makapagbigay sa aminong kailangan budget para may sagawa yung isang epic na kwento tapos ano pa siya nangyari pa siya nung 1400 so medyo malaking parang kailangan nalagay kami na tamang panahon for that and then going back to the other question na do I love to work with the same team yes I do kasi I love these people I trust them and they trust me also and pare-pareho na kami na ng goal sa isang projects kakilalo namin yung galo na isat sa kasi importantin na na sa mga projects namin mga independent projects we are only given like 8 shooting days or 15 max so obrang iksinong panahon na yun so kailangan kailangan namin yung galo na isat isa mas nakakatulong na kaibigang ko rin sila yeah but sorry brought it up meron na siyang crew that you work with a lot and then literary material you want to work with maybe I can add on that my first two short films were a collaboration with my idol poets feminist writers Marjorie Ibasco and Lila Kendo sa San Chaco talagang I would I really enjoyed working with them on my short films and it's also important for me to work with with the writers who also went through difficult yung saapong yung sa gilay sa poet it's really about yung masisa pero my co-writer was Erickson Acosta he was a political detainee in fact when he co-wrote the script he was still in detention and he was not released yet so grave yung and then for Darling Nick naman is to work with the young writer Chris Lacaba whose father is Josef Lacaba and to write the scripts on about his father's experience during Marcello was very important and then I think that's a very vital part yung you are not just working with people na kanjive mo but really who will really contribute greatly share your vision also o e kasi yung mayor may remesha na madadagdag na hindi mo na ikita e so that's why speaking of idols and influences dung sa padebelto yung pagaaralbi lang mga director sinun sinun mga figures na tinigalanin yung whether mga local na director sila o yung mga classic na sinabun well o yung mga kanyang classin director o at patuli pa rin ba itong pagaaraling yung nang ang trabaw ng ibang tao sa ibang lugar actually madami po ay but i always remember yung si Victoria De Sica kasi ay really love bicycle thief the simplicity of the story kahit sabi kong dino ka na niniwala na i mean walang amount of effects can't amount to the emotions that can bring a simple film so every time na nagmagawa ako ng naisip ko yung ganung ka-simpling pili ko la si Lino Broca kasi Ishmael Berna gusto ko po yung nunal sa tubig hanggang ngayon sabi ko pag pinakapanot kushual cycle ibang klasi yung kwento na sabi na wala nangyayari pero kahit wala nangyayari you felt na yung cycle ng buhay ay ganun lang sa labas naman po siguro yung gusto ko yung yung Dardin brother si Luke kasi John Dardin ganun din more on mas gusto ko po kasi nisiguro mas realistic yung treatments pero na tutuwadin ako like si Guillermo del Toro yung recently gusto ko po yung pan slaverin kong pano na pagmix yung fairytale with social and historical elements na tasyong huli niyang pili ko lang ayun yung shape of water na panuot ko sa ako I marvel at how they balance it pero marami po kasi di ba kasi the story so kung anong yung mas nakaka parang ko saan ako mag-react na story yun yung mas gusto ko kong gawin I can ask at I really look up to yung mga kasama ko sa trabawang like Anjali Bayani you get inspired by her may anong kabay isip na kuyen to Bigla and then you will think of her all of a sudden kaya dun yung Anjali perfect as yung mga did you think of her right away for Ned's project what's that? Ned's project was she the first dalawa silang naisip namin first is Aisa Seguera hindi pwede si Aisa nung pan ako na yun so sabi ko Anjali and ayaw pang gawin ni Anjali nung una natatakot siyang gawin yung Ned's project but she did it eventually and sobrang sweat na namin na ginawan the best so dun lang naman nakukubay yung mga kasi let's say your contemporary filmmakers contemporary filmmakers yung mga pinapanod mo ay dof bak pinapanod mo pinapanod ko na masilin lahat lahat kaming kami naman nagigita sa mga festivals kong hindi lang audience namin pero saan nang mas dumami pa yung audience sa mga festivals pero very happy to see you watching in the films yourself sa trinoma nang pagnagsu-anasi lagin naman kasi kami kaming naman susuportahan ni so sino pang susuporta sa namin kundi kami kami rin lang naman so parang I don't need to go back to the 80s or the 70s like yung mga kundin parari namin ng mga filmmakers ngayon you get inspiration from them like see Sigrid Bernardo nang kita-kita nakaka-inspire yung nangyari ni sa kanya very small film nabig lang pinakamalaking independent film ngayon na sa box office so things like that yung nakakatuan kaibigan namin yung mga idol namin sa yun ikosa kasi in your particular case na NFA ka sa NYU so talagang ibang klasing exposure yun yes did that help you a lot in crafting your filmmaking afterwards malaki ba pinagbago dahil nakapag-aral kasi danyang mga centro ng filmmaking yes it's a wonderful experience learning under Spike Lee was my professor he was also my teacher's advisor and also the writer of Blade Runner Hampton Puncher was my screenwriting teacher so may kita niyo medyo iba yung outline structure and their script writing method was quite different from my studies here so it really enriched my learning and when I went back shini-share ko talaga siya sa students ko but it's also more independent para niyo teaching ng NYU not really for Hollywood so na-appreciate ko niyo philosophy ng NYU film studies ko especially MFA sa gating ko rin yung inspiration during my film studies I was very much inspired by Maya Daren's experimental works which dealt with dream logic and all that and for independent philosophy it's kidlatahimic I really love how he made his films very personal filmmaking and then of course Nick Joaquin naman also somehow influenced my the way I wrote my scripts Nick Joaquin that's a little strange yes yes and then of course we have him Bernal and Broca brought up the international connection you were trained internationally but the perception or maybe the reception of Philippine films in the international scene we seem to be in a niche which is what I call it miserablism but it has also been called pornography poverty porn maybe I'd like you guys to share thoughts on that is it a good or a bad thing that we seem to be internationally known to be our cinema seems to be specializing on that subject of poverty and when of course it's our reality but it's not our only reality on one hand and I think poverty porn it's not just it's a term that pertains not so much to the topic being about the poor but it's a way you treat the topic it's a perspective or it's an approach to the topic so maybe you can share thoughts on that do you think you've already done films that can be accused of being an example of poverty porn well I think the pension of foreign programmers kasi in any like in any festival or in any film culture in any country that does films they have their own their own perspectives of what types of films we can call them stereotypes they have stereotypes of what types of films they wanted to bring to a festival of course they're always curious of the Filipino poverty experience because when they see Smoky Mountain for example or they see people it it immediately attracts them but during like in recent years I think festivals have also been more open to films that are not only a poverty porn but also they explore certain areas in cinemas like for example the Rotterdam film festival in the Netherlands has also been exposing a lot of films alternative Filipino films that doesn't only deal with poverty like C. John Torres for example who does films but that's an exception because you have the Dante Mendoza films kinata yung mga yan the ones that become acclaimed maybe the other exception would be love love is working not so much on the topic of poverty but on the topic of history and allegory that's a different kind of cinema altogether I think it's also it has something to do also with the of course that's a prejudice of course like for example the Iranian films would always be about this young children and like the melodramas that they would do but now you have you have C. Asgar who did a separation and who's who's totally changing the way you see Iranian cinema so also like even Thai cinema like Thai cinema like before it's you have C. Lapenek and now you have Apichat Pong who tries to change everything so like in like what you said C. Love Diaz and a lot of young filmmakers are also trying to change the way how foreign festivals look at Filipino films but that's still a niche that they try to look at but more than that siguro that's just a backdrop but it has to be the story that happens in the film more than the poverty but that's always it's personal because they're the ones choosing the film we cannot dictate Do you think Lena Brock has to blame to a large extent? No because the new realist films of Lena Brock were special special quite focused on urban poverty in particular hindi rin because they usually blame Desika because during the time they do post war films everybody's going to the festivals so I think it's a special experience siguro baka nakarelate lang sila during that time with the characters and of course being a third world country it's always I think that the charm of Lena Brock's films which is still more or less an influence now is that you work on the topic not just of poverty but on the topic of the moral dissonance of the poor the complexity of that life basically you have let's say thinking of Maxim Oliveiros a family of snatchers but they're all devoted to each other and they love each other so meaning it's a complexity of the moral situation of the poor who have to survive and in doing so have to be immoral but they're actually pretty moral within that world exactly so you mean you have characters working on a political milieu that happens just to be in a poor family but more than that what resonates is the characters so it's just a background like yung ginoa kong film ngayon the last film I did it's called Madili Manggabi it's about the drug war in the Philippines but they're poor but you see the characters are grey characters so I think that's why I was also interested in doing that because the pochers are not really white I mean clear peat na may menis na taon na walang ginagong but they become victims to it so now you have yung moral pendulum katulad ng sinasabi mo so mas at isa pang speaking of broca isa pang malaking pag-akayboan nakita ko between broca and stymie sa ngayon yung kaylino kasi yung plots niya very linear they're the retulant talaga pero ngayon hindi na nagsasangasang ninsan na film language isa different already iba na what happened to storytelling digital digital technology that changed a lot let's hear from film makers and from the teacher yes well let me talk yung poverty porn issue muna why I think lino broca transcends that that stereotype because he is not merely a filmmaker he is really an advocate an activist he was part of that community and he went beyond making a film about it's not just backdrop he really kasi ang question yun who gains from making these films using poverty kasi of course now we have become a niche na parang we have this morbid especially festivals have this morbid fascination with suffering yes third world country na so ang question is ano ba talaga intention ng filmmaker who will gain is it going to be advances career bring him fame and at the same time you will see a big disconnect na there is a gain sa filmmaker's side but there is no improvement sa stories or sa life ng mga subjects so that's why lino broca is a genuine storyteller for he can speak on their behalf nakita naman natin sa practice nye and it was not just a business strategy of most filmmakers who just want to go to na story on the internet na okawa naman sila that we make a film about is now pero they are actually removed from that community so sa aking you will not be accused of doing poverty porn films if you are if you use the immersive approach if there is an immersive approach and you bring integrity to these people after you make that film my continuing relationship if you humanize the poor yes so that is why I think I am favoring the documentary films on poverty because iba yung relationship ng documentary filmmaker sa kanila sa community it is you know long lasting may longitudinal relationship so that's why I am not surprised that a lot of Filipino filmmakers are accused of blatant exploitation kasi in some ways poverty films are exploitation it's an exploitation of the the situation of our you know masya kaya it's it's very tricky so pag yung sa I guess you only get accused of doing poverty porn kapag pag hindi naging personal sa you in filmmaking kasi pag may mamimit kang story i-investigahan mo and then you get curious about what is it about and then nakikita mo na siya sobrang superficial pa lang nakikita mo nasa hindi mo pa surface lang surface lang yung nakikita mo so kapag when you do a deeper investigation gumawa ka na na factsheets mo nag-immers ka na doon sa character so nagiiba yung perspective mo hindi mo lang gusto ng ikwento yung kanilang kahirapa nagiging totooong tao sila kasi kasi pag gumagawa na piliga na importante na you dive into the characters you become the characters nagiging naname yung mga characters so nagkakaroonan dignidad yung pagtaho nila so hindi lang basta in-expose mo yung kahirapan bakit sila masama nagiging tao sila so I guess that's the difference between kumuha ka lang na isang kwento about kahirapan o nag-immers ka totally at taging ikaw yung character din nasasabi mo with justice and with integrity just to be fair I brought up the concept of property porn because I know none of you is guilty of that I've seen your works you've had stories about the poor but they are never exploitative kasi humanized and the poor have dignity and they are complete round characters kasi naging iba-ibay nang panahon nila lino bro ka ibang paki-kipaglaban yung panahan ngayon ng 90s ready 2000 yung dayon ibang paki-kipaglaban naman so mayro kaming kanyang paniniwala at mayro kaming kanyang decision ko paana namin ko kwento yung atakini nimisang kwento kung yung mga relevant now we go go back to the question on on the filmic language and how now hindi na masyadong linear in filmic language na yung yung flow ng mga films natin what are your thoughts on that Adolf your own films have shown a variety of of sort of like plot sort of arrangements right so are you attractive to this non-linear manner I think it always depends on the subject like how well how will you use the narrative to to support the film kasi nga sabi nila still content is king so kung dahil doon you still follow certain narrative structures to fit the story like for example I did a film sinulat ni Love Diaz yung alamat ni China Dal when he wrote it when he wrote it it's linear tapos when we were shooting sabi ko sa kanya parang baka pwede namin since it's about an investigation laro in yung structure na in a way na because there's parang dalawang timelines so sabi ko paglaroan natin why won't we tell it we start from the present and then you you tell the story so you have two narratives one going forward one going forward the other strand going backwards so at the effect mas mga highlight mo yung because any narrative structure should serve the story first not just to paraguluhin yung audience or para masabin o magaling siya makuento kasi ni Ramble Ramble niya ok na siya mahusay siya di ba hindi siya so it always serves the purpose of the story the other film I did is yung tambulista it's about ayang boy na nag well it was important that you change the plot there because there is a pay off yes so parang he likes to play the drums so drums is music rhythm so rhythm is sometimes uneven so yung mga ganong take kasi nga sometimes mas you also make the audience parang go into another territory na hindi sila familiar but at the end of it it becomes familiar to them because it's always a story of a family parin naman yung tambulista kasi the revelation is in the end so ok lang that you kind of mess around with the plot a bit kasi in the end may pay off talaga siya I think I can say that itong non-linear structure hindi niya ba before the groundbreaking films of kursavas rashawan and we have Orson Welles Citizen 16 which really went against the three act structure classical Hollywood storytelling so they would do multiple perspective multiple flashbacks flash forward so and that was at that time siya groundbreaking siya so ngayon yung mga bata yung filmmakers are also exposed to doing more out-of-the-box storytelling and we are encouraging them to do that and because also the liberating ang digital technology before kasi when you talk about siya nila nila broka there's they really follow the chronological straight forward because also celuloid dictated of the medium celuloid but when digital you can do one splice and resplice and do multiple versions of it oh actually siya narapit pa rin siya pero 7 hours can we bring up labdias later we will talk about lam's kind of cinema later we're out of time we're out of time that's so awful I'm very sorry but we've had a term can we have lam's thoughts on that last question on non-linear films as long as nabagi sa kuwento mo may ko kuwento mo nintama yung kuwento na mga why not go for it like si yung dinaagawa ni yung serving nilaw ngayon yung paggumagawa siya non-linear ng script nang script asong pag yung even di sa duke it's non-linear also so as long as pagay siya ako kuwento mo na nintama yung kuwento mo wala naman powod sa okay, pwede ba nating matanong yung for some last words about anong mga problema at prospects ang nakikita niyo para sa inyong trabaho bilang director sa Pilito Lang Pilipino can we start with you Sarah? yes? or problems and or prospects? of course yung sustainability talaga and for me I have not done studio film or commercial film but I'm open to that but right now I'm very, very content but sustainability paying the bills and all that I think it's a it's a reality okay would you recommend having a day job to filmmakers? I'm teaching at the same time but they allow us to pursue our you know passions so at least five full-time films when I'm teaching and I really appreciate that given that so yung nga lang it's not for profit for educational what are the prospects for documentary films in the country? because that's that's your passion like more documentary films okay, so that's why I was happy last year during the MFF that we did good documentary films late now which was Sunday Beauty Queen yes, yes although it was in terms of box office it was not as high as the others but for me it did well it went well and it back for me ang gandang mangyari that's a failed experiment no, this year's MFF it's back to formula films last words na tayo I'm sorry I don't know marami marami hindi lang siya pang isang horos na show at the day ang manilakarap namin sa kasama ni pagusapan natin yung personal sa aking iyon siguro nung nag-start ako na gumawa na ng film ko na sabi ko dito di ako yung saray ko na tarot ako na inano ko na inasin ko na na hindi magiking profitable or sustainable kaagal-agal sa aking so kaya kailangan yung yung introduction ng dina-design kung kailaram yung gumawa na ABP when you're pursuing your fashion gumawa na furniture gumawa na furniture kagaya ko mag-trabaho sa television ok na naman yun as long as nakatutuko pa rin sa gusto nung mangyari nung bitawan nyo and just make sure na nila kung pabay ng deals bago nung bitawan na very practical advice ganon di naman palang mahirap kasi to balance yung what you love and what you need to do so dahil doon you just have to to make certain points in between you still do what you want and at the same time yung nga meron kang one that sustains your daily needs pero more than that important rin ngayon siguro yung sa mga independent filmmakers yung distribution channel for I mean a distribution network for the films na ginagawa kasi ngayon marami na talagang independent films yung ginagawa and you don't have a lot of distribution options baka yun marami nang yung nagubukas like cinema local which creates and more festivals or perhaps di naman siguro more festivals but also parang mas maraming concrete distribution channels for independent films para mas mas ma-exposure yung mas bata yung mga younger generations dun sa iba-tibang klasi ng paco-quento at saka ng cinema kasi kung dahil nga at the festival ngayon would you solve this trick here nang nangiyas yung industry na yung mga baka ng director nagsungo yung director nang different festivals now may seed money na meron ka nang building audience yan makagawa ka ng Pilipula mo so andali ngayon just come up with a good story a good script and then mapipili ka itin mapagawa ka nang Pilipula very generous naman yung festival's made and we're very thankful to them yeah it's very exciting because now there are all kinds of films being made and we didn't have the time to bring up labdias but I just want to put in this little word about that it's that what he's doing he's challenging the way we conflate the idea of cinema with entertainment you're not supposed to be entertained entirely when you watch a film so actually when you watch labdias you get irritated and sometimes you get bored and you get sleepy and you get hungry right you experience all sorts of things because that's part of what cinema should also do not just to entertain can I have a last word from Cecil? I think for a long long time yes sa pelikula ay isang escape no asang isang entertainment pero nowadays I think mo bukas naman yung pinto na hindi ito simply lamang eskipisip eskipism no even in curatorial of work ang video art is a major module para sa mga exhibitions and in fact na video art na as a visual phenomena so I think yung pag ispapreciate natin sa filmmakers or in broad definition ng paglikhan na mga images yun yung lingguahe talagin ang 21st century yes it's a wave of the future it's not just a pure words a narrative but really how we mix and merge yung hybridity na images sa everyday world and to make sense of it I think yung new lesson sa Harry wants just a last word alright this year 2017 we celebrate the 100th year in cinema spanning 100 years at the Philippines cinema starting with Don Jose who opened the first all Filipino production studio called Malayan studio so Philippines cinema is very 100 years so looking forward to more filmmakers the future is bright with you guys 100 years on that note kulang po talagang isang araw para sa talakayan to pull sa pelikulang Pilipino pinakabaganda po magagawa natin ay tangkiliki natin ng pelikulang Pilipino whether mainstream ito o indie kaya po maraming-raming salamat sa ating mga panawihin sa aking mga co-hosts tulad nga na sinabi ng yumao natin kaya kaya ibig ang sidingadres na isang script writer hanggang dito na lang pulamang at maraming salamat