 I started to see that this was an opportunity to demonstrate this by this I mean the academic commons but more broadly this this kind of virtuous cycle where you have the money from the university going to a developer who then works closely with the university to build something which is then redistributed to the broader public I started to see this as a model of public engagement that stands alongside and really compliments the larger goal of public engagement of the university you know universities are really big on having their public intellectuals they want them to write books and to give give talks that are open to the public and to have a do media appearances and this sort of thing. We can take that same sort of model of the university kind of opening up the doors of the ivory tower so to speak, and we can apply that to the infrastructure of the university as well in terms of the software that we build so instead of thinking of the software as plumbing that's hidden behind the walls. Instead we think of building software and conceptualizing software in a similar manner to the way that we do public intellectualism so we build it. We share the processes behind behind the building, and then we give it away, and that creates a conversation around the tools that we build, because I mean, we all know that the tools, especially now in 2021 we know that the tools that we build for communication these spaces are they underscore and to some extent they dictate the kinds of conversations we're allowed to have in the public intellectual sphere. So this is not like a false connection here I mean, they are very their intrinsically link we can't talk about. Oh what's it like to have a public discourse without talking about the tools that on with you know that facilitate the public discourse.