 Okay So good evening, let's call the meeting to order First thing on the agenda is the minutes from both January 16th and January 23 So January 16th is their emotion I move the approval of the minutes of January 16th, 2024 Is there a second? Page one page two Under number six where it says The project that includes some affordable units I Would appreciate it if we put either the percent or a number in there because that was really the reason On the basis for approving this in my opinion anything else on page two page three No other corrections all those in favor of approving the minutes with the modification by a gene say I Hi all those high Yeah, I just have it January 23 very motion move the approval of the minutes of January 23 2024 with the minutes Corrections is there a second? second page one so all of the motions that are listed on the On the minutes don't have any action So we need to have a vote was held in the number and how that came up on three four five and six The thing I wasn't quite sure of is there was one We had the old brick church bond was As presented it was the wrong number right and we corrected that that was corrected Yeah, so should one of these should say as corrected I think Anything else on page that you got that Anything else on page one page two hearing no further modifications all those in favor Proving the minutes with the modifications as presented say I Nay guys have it great Housekeeping item is completed Next public comment. This is a moment for anybody to speak and their mind to the board It could be what things that are on the agenda, but it doesn't have to be I don't see anybody in the room that is a likely candidate for public comment, but I don't want to People are feeling particularly commenty Is there anybody online, I don't see any one of the chat So next on the agenda tax increment financing tiff district panel discussions we have honored guests If you folks could come up Charlie Baker executive director of the Chittenden County Regional Planning Commission head Brady executive director And Ilana Belanchard community development director for the city of South Browning So I'm going to actually turn it over to Eric for a brief introduction and presentation Thanks to it and thanks everyone for joining us I This just kind of bring us back to where we are with this discussion There's an ARPA project proposal to consider allocating funds to study the viability of the tax increment financing district or a tiff district And also to assist in preparing an application to the town Question before the select board is whether to allocate those funds for us to study a possible tip with the consultant Question right now is not whether to apply for a tip at this time. The first would do the analysis And the board plans at ARPA work session at its next meetings lining up the panel discussions I'm proceeding that ARPA discussion Should the town apply and a tiff district's approved and then allow the town to take an active role in a future development pattern of the growth center by Identifying priority infrastructure projects to utilize tiff funds, and it's not about accelerating growth It's about good public facility planning to support the growth being the town's goals The town would have its hand on the controls in the growth center much more than it does today It's a reminder the town could leverage education taxes upwards of 70% to fund infrastructure over the life of the district And overall this is complicated governance work. It requires comprehensive examination with ongoing modeling and monitoring. It's an opportunity for the town. It may not see again So it's certainly a thought of the board I'll throw over a plan director in Appalachia just for a couple of initial comments and then we turn over to our panel to share their insight and their experiences Thanks Eric and I'd like to share in thanking our guests to come tonight and talk about their perspectives and Experiences with this important tool in the toolbox available to Vermont communities so in talking about What are some potential goals for the use of the tax increment finance tool for Williston and particularly in tap corner so to One potential goal would be to use investment in public infrastructure Focus development within the growth center Not just in the growth center but into some sub center areas within the growth center Williston's growth center is over 800 acres in size. It's large One of the things that our consultant team identified in the process that led up to the adoption of our form-based code was that There would be some challenges for Williston in having new development happen near enough to other new development that you would start to get a Center of gravity that would feel like a town center the quote from the vision plan was Four buildings one on each corner of an intersection could be the beginning of a town center But 20 buildings spread out across the entire growth center Might not come together and really feel like a place the same way that the town's expressed goals talk about so When the town chooses to invest in infrastructure in a particular location It is doing something that might direct growth into one of those more central locations another reason to consider this tool is to help the town and its plans to Maintain and enhance economic resilience in the growth center as you most probably all recall from the form-based code Conversation the growth center contains some older development and development that's based on Some kinds of land use that we're not so sure are going to be around forever Namely big box stores and large shopping centers So by having the ability to intervene when needed and invest in infrastructure that focuses growth the town can also put some control into how those Legacy areas begin to change evolve or become part of that center within the growth center another Possibility is that areas within the growth center that might be kind of stuck that might Not evolve because they have infrastructure needs that development on that one property itself Isn't worth it to to make the street upgrade or to make the stormwater upgrade The town can come in and invest in infrastructure in ways that there might be a property that its redevelopment is really critical to the town's vision But it needs some infrastructure to make that happen and it's in the town's interest to come in and do that So a way of coordinating infrastructure planning and construction Another use of this tool and again just the idea of targeted investment is to create neighborhoods within the growth center That future community facilities could be a part of as the town looks into its long range and Talks about things like public parks or a community center or a policing facility If those are to be located in the growth center The town can invest in infrastructure in the areas where it thinks those are suitable to bring sort of a neighborhood along with them So you think about those facilities as not being isolated out on their own on a property that the town's advancing on but being part of a growing changing neighborhood that helps support that facility and make it part of the fabric of the area and Finally Infrastructure investment in the growth center via this tool can encourage compact development and the creation of affordable housing So the growth center is is the place in the town where the town is most likely to succeed in its housing goals because of the Compactness of what can be allowed there? Infrastructure investment can allow that to happen and I'm going to stop there I think there's a theme through all of those points, which is that the town Invests in infrastructure using this tool and it chooses where to do so and by choosing where to do so it can choose Where things are likely to happen first? And what sequence things are likely to happen in and because of the size of our growth center and the dispersion of what's there? Taking some control or having some influence over that can really help the town achieve its goals. I'll stop there Yeah, so we'll have from the board you're from Ted and Charlie and then we'll have more of a case study from Thanks Eric nice to see everybody Ted Brady from the Vermont League of Cities and Towns It's a quick reminder for those following along at home and in case Ted Kenny's been here so long He forgot what we are The league is your league. We're a member owns all 247 cities and towns are members of the league We exist to serve you we do so by providing Education to municipal officials we do so by offering Trainings one-on-one legal assistance so any of you can call us anytime and ask any question you want Sometimes we can answer them sometimes we can't I didn't say we're gonna answer every question But you can ask any question we provide you your insurance through passive So thanks for being a member of passive and workers comp through a verb And I really want to thank you for lending us Eric who serves on our trust board And so thanks for being a healthy member that's trying to influence how we govern ourselves so that we can provide you the best service The other thing the league does is we advocate for you and the last Five to ten years and before my time. I've been there for three years One of the big things we've had to advocate for is community and economic development tools for Vermont municipalities Because our members told us to but also because there really aren't that many resources from the state or from the feds that are Directed to helping municipalities invest in themselves and provide You know ways to make their communities more Engaging and vital and and healthy and creating economic opportunities for Vermonters And and so one of the things that we've been advocating for really heavily has been the tax increment financing program You may know or you may not know it's been kind of controversial around The state because of our statewide education fund And the fact that the town's action does impact You know a statewide revenue source turns out the people in Montpelier follow that kind of thing really closely What is error as a as Matt has just said The tax increment financing tool gives communities a way To make something happen that would not otherwise happen And that's what this should be used for and what Matt just described was a really good summary of what you're trying to make happen different right Growth is going to happen in the town of Williston, right? It's obviously an economic Growth engine for the state This tool allows you to make growth happen in a very specific way in a way that benefits the community You know a way that Puts development where you want it how you want it to look and Is there a place-based economic development strategy, right one that says we are going to build in this place Because it's what our community has decided where we want to build we're going to say yes here We're going to say no in other places Through an incentive which is a huge incentive just building infrastructure and making a big investment in infrastructure There is no other tool out there that is this effective I can tell you that because we studied it the league did a study on tiff about two years ago Hired an economist out of University of Wisconsin and the findings from that study showed that Tiff raised municipal tax Revenue over the life of the project it raised ed fund revenue over the life of a project It incentivized a lot of other state and federal money and that I want to really I hope that's you know What Wilson is thinking if you do a tiff it's not like you just use the tiff and you've built infrastructure that tiff State money and federal money follows that tiff because you create an environment where it's a sucking sound from all those Federal and state resources they see something happening and there's a place to put money and perhaps most importantly There's an enormous match, right that we have a hard time coming up with as municipalities And we also found that the tax increment financing program in Brom was the Strictest in the country so you know that you're coming into a program that Around the country some tiffs can be used to do things like build baseball stadiums That's not happening in Vermont The tiff program is used to build municipal infrastructure only in certain places growth centers designated places and It needs to you know meet certain criteria for housing blight transportation There's only certain things you can use money for so use the money for so it's really a really It's the most effective tool in an economic developers toolbox to make things happen The purposeful things happen in your community. I want to end my just comments with saying also go in eyes wide open, right? the 12 communities that are in the tax increment financing program now, maybe it's 11 the number It's been a couple years since I was at the agency of commerce There's a lot of scrutiny, right? You'll all become very good friends with Doug Hoffer With their auditor you'll all become very good friends with Vepsi The my economic progress council that That oversees this program and you should go in with you know a sturdy stomach to say we know what we're getting into and The benefit of this program for our community is worth, you know, the What will likely be a 20-year relationship as you pay off the bonds? So it's a it's a so in summary just a quick reminder. This is something the league has been supporting communities have access to for years It's something we're fighting the legislature every year over to make sure that it still exists Um, the program is I want to just reiterate this It's a purposeful program a place-based program to make something happen that otherwise wouldn't happen You're gonna have to prove that right that but for if you did not use this tool This development wouldn't happen either where it's happening or the way it's happening And then finally just a quick reminder Do they say this already? It's a long-term relationship. You're getting married So happy to answer any questions after you hear the rest of this but Excited that Williston's thinking about it Yeah, yeah, thanks Ted. Um, so Charlie Baker from the Chittany County Regional Planning Commission. Uh, thanks for being here Or thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk to you tonight. Um, and I think Those were really helpful and um I do want to follow up on Matt's comments about kind of implementing your plan You know, we did we invested heavily in your Born-based code work and the kind of the plan that accompanies that and And just to emphasize that like implementing your plan and you know, this is one of the Really rare tools that you have to kind of leverage those future tax dollars And I assume maybe you maybe I shouldn't assume But you know the the tax increment is the new property tax associated with the property So that new revenue is what is paying off the money here And you get you can use 70 of the education fund tax rate and And then the other 30 is on the municipal tax rate. So But it's only for that increment So I think that's it's kind of a hard concept to realize that the base property taxes are still Flowing just as they normally do to the ed fund to the municipality but when new Real estate investment happens on the property and it has an increase in value that increase in Tax revenue is what helps pay the you're really borrowing, right? You're doing a bond to do an infrastructure investment For 20 years. These are have 20 year lives And just to kind of We go back on some of the history of these go back to the late 90s Sorry, this is I just pulled this off the tiff website, but just to give you a little sense Newport actually was the first one in like 97 or maybe burlington waterfront They've Burlington waterfront is a little different. They've been continuing to do theirs But burlington has two tiffs. Whenewski is I think I'm gonna pay theirs off in a month or within the next 60 days um and You know, I think if you look at towns like whenewski and st. Alvin's you can really see how their downtown cores evolved And you know, I don't there's really No comparison to what it was before and then after they invested and kind of did this front end investment to Leverage private investment that follows right and that's really what you're doing It's what both matt and ted were referring to and i'm sure a lot of will get into more detail And you can again taken from the website, you know, you can actually obtain land you can pair sites You can do the infrastructure which has been the most common one. I think sewer water roads You might have a road that might be an opportunity here and so And then also you can join in public private partnerships And then it can also pay for the the tiff financial management, you know, because you are going to have some consultants that you're going to need to engage to Be in that marriage With the you know, the auditors and amvepsy along the way And I think you you're in a very good place from my perspective You're part of the process is formulating a plan. What would you do? I think you got probably the beginnings of that I'm sure you need to do some more detailed work as matt was referencing about Timing and sequencing and you know, where what kind of investment do you want to make in what place to Encourage what kind of reaction from the property owners? Which i'm sure will be a lot of conversation with the property owners And you have a lot of acreage here But also a lot of opportunity to really Achieve the vision that you've all been working on in the last few years So i'll kind of we'll leave it at that and you know, we're happy to help support whichever way we can But thanks for the time okay, so Good evening My name's elana blanchard. My my name actually elana rhymes with iguana if you have to I have a soft voice so i mean i work on projecting but wave your hands if you can hear what i'm saying so Um, i'm gonna try to project. Do I project through the zoom? I saw it. Um, I just looked to make you a panelist. Okay, and then that should let you show great So just give me a moment join this panelist Um The scary thing about this is that you always hope your microphone is off because it sounds awful and okay, great Um like oh, okay, so No There we go. Um, so hopefully this presentation will echo um what um What charlie has said and also um, what? goodness There's two of us you can say tag and get it No, I'm terrible with names and I know you I've known you a long time. So that's horrible and he That's okay iguana. Yeah I mean the lct is an amazing resource obviously we lean on you guys all the time. So So south burlington tiff district Has been around now. Um since 2012 But it's been an idea in our community I think downtown has been an idea in our community since the 70s. Um, and certainly Um in the at least in the 2000s. We were already thinking about establishing a tiff district And I was specifically hired to help this get started That was like one of my first goals was I had to submit a tiff district application And uh, we came in in one of the versions of the tiff districts There's lots of flavors of them because the legislature keeps tinkering with them And hopefully with the lct's help they will continue to do so and make it an easier process Um, so for south burlington, uh, we had a very specific goals in mind. Um, We have been one of the poster children first brawl in vermont And as you see other people go through form-based coast process people are like, oh, we don't want to be like south burlington I don't think they can say that anymore So for us, it's been an incredible tool for getting new community resources. Um, so parks The library and and city hall Supporting downtown development. Uh, so we really You know one of the hallmarks of sprawl is spread out housing And we we wanted a walkable downtown and we wanted compact development affordable housing But a space that felt like a community center and we wanted the development pattern That would support that and we also had work with ccrpc We had a huge grant from you following on the eco's grant to develop form-based code similarly and so that grant Came in around the same time that the tip district plan was being developed And so they really work together to think about what the downtown should be and reinforce each other And then just creating places that welcome people in south burlington our town hall wasn't super welcoming not to say terrible things about it But it wasn't as charming as yours is by any means. Um, and um, and and we had, you know, big open great parks and great open spaces But there wasn't a place that you could point to and be like, you know, that's really the heart of the community and so With city center coming to fruition it it's become a space that people can point to and and say that's our downtown um, so It is incredibly um One of the hallmarks of the program is the longevity of it and and the commitment that it requires a community to make So you you develop a plan. It's different from a comprehensive plan Um in that you're pouring so much Money and staff time into it and you are putting a lot of money into a comp plan also But you're making so many commitments. Um, the voters are voting on so many things and then you have to make Maybe once but maybe several times You'll have to make a decision about going out to debt and you know be looking at, you know Will we have the revenue to support that if we don't have the revenue? How are we going to make it up? And are these investments going to be worth it and get us what we're what we want as a community? and so First the city of south furlington, um, and I'll show you later on we did layer many things But one things that one of the things that happens with that really long timeline Is that it becomes an organizing principle for your funding? for your planning for All many program investments and pulls everything together and it I hate to use the word lock in because it's given the community and our political Leaders as well as our staff a lot of stability And consistency in the direction of the city on at least in this one area and this is the one area where All of our council will go out and campaign together Which is and bring the same message and work together On on bond votes and to communicate to people clearly What the tiff district is and what it does for the city And you can see That was the view outside of city hall over the past year and it's completely different now I can't even see the building anymore. So it's it's it's been pretty the most recent investment I know you guys have that kind of investment all the time, but it's been a very big deal for us. So So we have three state designations of which the tiff district is one. We have a new town center We also have a neighborhood and All of these are different tools in the toolbox. So the tiff district is is the biggest and Main economic development tool in the state, but there are so many others and you need all of them To ensure that you get that shift in development and that creation Of depending on what your goals are for us. We needed every single one of them Maybe other communities are just making smaller adjustments, but for us we were going from You know mid-scale housing very suburban style and and strip malls and we really needed to go in a different direction You know, according to our comprehensive plans and so We needed all of this to get there We have four federal and state grants. We're still applying for grants And in the application process you have to talk a lot about your planning And it and it's been kind of fun for me because I'm talking about like well We plan the form base code and we plan the streets and we plan this then these are all working together and so Here I am, you know 10 years later or eight years later talking about all of the different partnerships that got us to where we are And we'll move us forward The public has voted on this multiple times There's been a lot of support and a lot of that is because of the leadership of the town of the of the city So our city has been very supportive of the of the program Even when maybe one of the projects Was a three-two vote at the end when they go out to bond they're very supportive of the of the overall program and so that has been huge Um We're actually on our second comprehensive plan and it still talks about city center and and moving that project forward Which is good because we have a long way to go Um, and then we have had many, um unified work program UPWP. I always forget what the second unified planning work program or yeah, okay then so Uh, so um, and then And we use our own funds so part of our building all of our projects Of all of our projects that are tip district financed Some of them are inside the tip district. Some of them are outside but contribute to the tip district And three of them are only partially funded with tip district financing. So that's where we're bringing in federal funds And then sometimes just in order to ensure a cash flow. We've used impact fees Uh For our building we use um clerk funds that they set aside for For information storage in order to help build the vault. So lots of different funds come into projects So this is where we are, um, and you know We have we're about to do a bond for 18 million We'll have about 29 million total debt at the end of March Um, and and we're at the moment, you know, we're bringing in, um last year we bought in in the 450, 450,000 of tax increment financing This year we'll bring in 600 in 50 And then over time it will grow to about 3 million a year. So That We're not all the way there yet. So we're still about 6 million short of what we'll need to pay off all of the debt and That's something that that's a risk that we are all taking That's our particular tip. So our tip district is based on building the projects And then working to develop the partnerships to get that development done not all tip districts are like that um, and we um, but because of the benefits that we see with the tip district um, and All the other money all the tip increment that we will be able to collect It still makes sense to go forward with completing our investments in order to create the downtown so Um, so this is where we are today. Also, we've added 43 million to our tax base Since 2012 so that is what the increment is assessed against and We're our tip like I said all tips are different flavors So we're We're at a 75 25 split. So we keep 75 of the taxes on that increment every year And then everything that's added to that as so everything that is currently under construction And then we'll be completed by 2026 that will Build up that up And then we'll be continuing to encourage development within the tip district in order to hit our target of Revenue to pay off all of the bonds We have a lot of affordable housing one thing That has happened through some of the incentives that are set up by the state for permitting Is that a lot of our affordable housing was front loaded, but we also have inclusive zoning housing Inclusive housing inclusive zoning Inclusionary, so I feel like there's something wrong there inclusive It is inclusive, but it's inclusionary. It requires a certain number of affordable housing units. It's different from the states So the developers have to meet both of those um And I'll just move through these we have parks. We have public EV chargers. Um, that's also a state grant. So we have lots of different Um new amenities for the public. Um, and we are growing as a tip district Um, we have nine projects that um have been voted on so nine projects that we'll be completing Um, five of them are still incomplete. So we're still building and then we've completed three Um of those projects if we count as long as we count our library city hall and senior center as one project Can I kind of rock you say nine nine voted What is that? So that means that of the nine projects. So we actually started out with more projects in our um tip district plan. We've amended it two or three times um And the last time that we amended it we took out some projects So we started with a big a big tent and then we said, you know to be realistic We have less we're going to build less projects So we are committed to building nine projects Those have all been voted on by the public and of those nine projects Three of them market street um city center park And 180 market street, which is our new library our city hall and um our senior center are complete Voted by way of a of a bond? Yes by a bond vote. Yes. Um, so so it goes, uh, so, um So there's actually a special process for each debt issue And the auditor pays a lot of attention to this just so you know So you have extra hearing And extra discussion that goes into the bond vote that are that a regular municipal bond It gets extra scrutiny And you do extra documentation for the public and a lot of education for the public about what that bond issue will be Um, and then uh, we've had ours in november like in presidential elections and then also during Uh town meeting So we have avoided Um august elections, but you could um and a lot of that is we just want to make sure that people can say Know that there was a lot of public Um input into whether or not that bond went forward Um, so so we have put several projects into each bond vote And that's why those numbers are different Um, sorry, so there were actually Four four bond votes But but only but nine projects Um So the first projects completed we're living in public Not something to develop or is doing where you're going to be able To get coming back, etc So how are you paying the related debt if you're not really taking in any new source of money? Yeah, that's a great question. So um, so like I said, our tiff district is different from other tiff districts So some tiff districts Have a specific development. Killington's a great example where they have um, uh, I believe it's a ski resort is going to Expand and add tax capacity and they're building infrastructure public infrastructure specifically to to service this and that and that It will sort of tie out um, in our case, uh, we initially brought in a lot of federal funds So for market street, we brought in a lot of federal funds and we also brought in um, impact fees uh, and Um, and then we knew there was some development that was already occurring and then we knew there was permitting occurring And so we looked at those numbers and we said, okay, that's why we had so many votes We're like, okay, we can pay for we know we can pretty much cover this much This is how much risk we have in in doing this The timing wasn't exactly what we we predicted But it wasn't too far off if that makes sense. So um Yes, was there a philosophy of like doing the park and the town or the city hall In that zone was going to provide the library was going to provide benefits for those other private property owners so We focused on projects that we knew would benefit the community and also, um Create the context For a much more elevated and much more intensive and expensive Type of development being mixed use or downtown, which we know is much riskier. So we wanted to create That special environment that can support that extra level of investment by the private sector um, and In some cases the private sector has gone and built some of our projects So part of garden street is actually being built by the private sector The other thing that we're doing and this is sort of inside baseball For you is that We are accounting on a 20 year timeline. So the the entire all of the tiff Is in a tiff fund and so it's not on an annual budget. It's on a it's on a in a special fund Which allows us to carry costs So when we have a surplus we carry that into the next year when we have a deficit We don't say deficit but when we have Then we have coming in we carry that and say We know that we have enough cash on hand. We also have a reserve fund and so the reserve fund helps us to know that We are not going to Fiscally as a city get into trouble Because we have another special fund over here where we're putting in funds that will pay for the city Costs as part of the district. Thank you. And so we've built that up that sort of evens everything out That that makes sense And we're also using that to look to say this this is what happens if we have the whole so that reserve fund helps at that at that end too So these are the projects that are that are done market street city center park The library the city hall in the senior center city center park. We have a phase two So that's one of the nine projects um Garden street if you all know alce french fries, I hope And so the intersection with alce french fries what used to be the travel agency Right on the corner of mitis white street and wilson road That is one of our big projects is to fix that So that that's one of the ones that's been voted on that will also that road will connect all the way through to trader joes between trader joes and healthy living um And so we'll probably start the section between healthy living and trader joes this year The rest of it will probably it's going to be a big project and I apologize because if you want to go to rallyton You might have to do some detours when this happens, but um, but uh, it will be really exciting because at the moment This is where we're really going from. Yeah strip commercial center to a walkable downtown um that intersection has crosswalks that go east west, but they don't go north south and This project will also bring a shared use path onto wilson road going east and Really changed the overall character of that of that section So it sets the stage for amazing things to happen down the road on all of those quarters Williston road streetscape will add a shared use path um city center park connection is um bringing city center park To the community. Um, and then the um east west crossing is a ped bike bridge over I89 and so you can see here. Oh, I have them coming out one by one So so east west crossing um will allow people to get over the interstate um completely separated from the exit 14 intersection wilson road streetscape allows people to bike and walk on wilson road And then garden street continues over To the intersection with pinesburg road and and that really begins to create A regional connection along us road to for more than cars And for us This has been huge because this area has been identified year after year in plans that as as a big problem for walkers and especially bikers So those are those are oops, there's one more City center park connection. So and I know I think you're very excited about this one Just see my house Be able to walk So so all of these projects are more than we would normally do as a city If we were just going out and building it with uh, I hate to say this with taxpayer money, but um But but we're not, you know for the except for the reserve fund, which is taxpayer funded everything here we're bringing in grants. We're using impact fees and And we're using tax income and financing and and putting all of those together Enables us to say When we make this connection to the park, we want it to be plowable in the winter so we're going to build a boardwalk that we can run our our plows over um, and uh, you know when when we build these bike paths, we we want it to be, you know Really easy for for wheelchairs and so we've been trying a lot of new things here that we had never done before as a city So it's been a big change for for our residents And we'd love to see you Please come and visit And you know always happy to answer questions. I didn't put up my email, but it's Pretty straightforward, and I'm right on the website We are doing illuminate vermont again this year on market street and you can check out all the construction It'll be the weekend before the eclipse. So the friday and fraturday we're expecting downtown will be very crowded So we've invited a lot of future Questions from the board My wife and I early this winter went over to marketplace just to see what it looked like the length of the library There's a beautiful library. You know the senior center off it We were really impressed You know we like we like the design of it Do you have a height restriction on the buildings over there? Six stories six stories And there may also be a height restriction only no one has built a six-story building We have a five-story building under construction, but I remember several years ago the athletic director from uvm was talking about a sports complex over in that area Whatever happened to that that's still on the board or uh, no I think they decided to invest in a arena on on their on their property So they're they're look they're building they're in the process. I believe And their fundraising are actually building So it's it'll be across the street from us Of course, it's the interstate Yeah So once the tiff district is passed until the value increases You know and you get impact you need to grow at a specific rate to pay back the bond, correct? That's I know you talked about reserve funds and impact fees That's that's correct. So um the current the current property that has been permitted for development will get us all the way through the payments According to our model. So we have one bit of money that is going out to be issued In march so that the last um So we have that six million dollar estimated gap And so all the development that is currently permitted or underway Will will cover everything up to there So the stuff that comes earlier is actually worth a lot more because you collect for more years But the stuff that the later and later it comes so less money the less revenue it brings because In terms of Of paying for the tip district Bonds because you're just collecting less years So our estimate is that we would need In order to get that last six million of revenue we would need to build At today's current value of buildings So that changes over time where we expect to go through a reassessment soon Would be 61 units per year between 2027 and 2036 so opening every year for 10 years So an additional 61 units and so that's something that we'll be working on We'll be working with property owners and developers in order to continue to promote the tip district as a place to develop Now it'd be all private investments correct Burlington puts up 60 units every weekend. So it shouldn't really be a problem We average 140 A year a year So and and we have I mean if we look at our recent years The majority of the development is occurring in in city center Which is which is what was planned for The city center, I think of it as being defined between Hinesburg road and dorses street. Is that correct or is it Extend further east that is our tip district And the form-based code includes the staples plaza and then The holiday in to the north and you ball and the you ball So i'm curious about the maybe this is for probably not not for you alana, but um I was reading about so this incremental value, right? and one of the reports I was reading that Ted that That we got last couple weeks ago Maybe the auditor realized that you can't just say the value is going to be flat and anything above that goes you know accounts towards the revenue that We would get the benefit of but They are going to say well, there would be some increase in the value of that property And you only get what's above that Is that makes the stressing this correctly? They're not saying that if this piece of land is worth a million dollars today It's always going to be worth a million dollars and anything above that gets counted towards your Additional valuation that's they're saying that million dollars over 20 years It's going to go up in some increment And so you might only be getting if it goes from one to two over 10 years you might only get The value of 800 k or something what so So I'm not as up on the most recent proposal But I I'm fairly I believe that the way the TIFF still works in the way that it works for us Is that I'll just tell you the way it works for us and we'll just assume that the way it still works so so 2012 Which is when we started our TIFF district Um, but when you once you vote on it for one of that year becomes your starting and that's your original taxable value That is the value of your TIFF district your your baseline for the life of the TIFF district So until for us until 2037 that's going to be Our our zero and then all the value about that whether we do an assessment or you know However, we do it because what happens when you do an assessment is then you readjust your tax rate So you could end up with less money or more money You don't know until you have that new tax rate in our case the last time Our TIFF district was actually increased we we believe it increased in value faster than the rest of the city because Um, it because we ended up with more money when we did the reassessment Because a reassessment has to be revenue neutral. So, right So we should probably check on that because I'm pretty sure I read that in the auditors thing that you sent around that they would They would I don't know if they would look at the how much other properties in the this is just important to me If they look at the other properties in the town and they said well, you know, your TIFF district Would go up the same amount as 10 percent as your Village district. That's making sense. But whatever they picked But if they also said like we know that TAF's corners would have we you'd have more hotels on that land You just have prettier roads with their hotels on that land. So, you know, that would make the the headroom the much smaller So that would be really important for me to know And I'm sorry, and that's that's what's before the legislature now No, I don't think it's I don't know why it's in Doug Hopper's letter. So The auditor has a lot of wishes for what the tax increment financing district would do differently Yeah, uh, and some of them picked up on it. Yeah, and so so that might be one of the proposals in his report But I don't believe that change has happened or that it's actually Being considered this year. I haven't seen that or a couple years out So that would be just a huge thing if it's if it really had to cut the headroom back quite a bit Yeah, I think it would make it very difficult to project Um, well, we could take just compared to South Burlington and say well South Burlington's property without a TIFF district went up 8% so we would assume that TAF's corners would go up 8% and if you went up 12% you get 4 Wouldn't it wouldn't it be a massive almost almost a disincentive if if that happened I mean, he's saying look if if the property that that was before the TIFF district was worth a million dollars and then after the TIFF Work is done. It's now worth four million dollars, but My magic eight ball tells me that it was going to be three million dollars. Anyway, so I'm going to subtract those two and and you only get the benefit of of the amount that Of that of that difference not the amount of the difference from the You know what I'd call the basis Um What would the point of a TIFF district be? Yeah well I mean, I think in most cases you're talking about the value of A brownfield or something which probably wouldn't change dramatically right versus a pretty Impressively fast-growing property that we just want to grow differently. That's that's my concern Okay, well the value of the neighboring properties would also increase as you've built projects so I can't I can't imagine a world in which that would work because Because it's the first development you have within your TIFF district the neighboring property to that development is Going to be worth more because of the project and then Yes, but they could compare it to five corners in Essex, right? I mean, I'm not sure how he would do it I'm just saying it that was spelled out pretty clearly that they thought that that was something that would happen so the other question I have is um Maybe this is for you matt but in the I think this is Ted's executive write-up assessment of state vermont TIFF policy that yours It says that The new legislation is focused on affordable housing brownfield remediation and transportation enhancement So we don't have that many brownfields do we in tax corners? No We we have what I would call gray fields Which is which is my word for parking lots So we don't we don't have brownfields in in tax corners But we do have areas that are challenging to develop or redevelop either because they were partially developed before Or they were left behind when you know, like a big box path is straight and something like that We certainly have opportunity for transportation enhancements All of those streets we put on the map for the official map that Underlies the database code Those are those are all about mobility I forget what the third one was Affordable housing brownfields of transportation. I mean, I don't I don't mind if we want to go forward with this because just As an affordable housing issue, but that would be that should be not hidden somewhere that should be one reason that we're doing it I guess I'm just a I'm I'm a bit of a skeptic on this because Yes, if I was building if we were building a library and a senior center and a new town hall Maybe not a new town hall But if senior center community center and a new library and all that we were getting out of it Even great walking paths and all that I think maybe It would be more interesting but to to tell people tell Taxpayers we're taking this risk so that we can put the road here instead of here is is a much harder sell A bit of skeptic what's all I'm going to say I think it's good to be a skeptic And I think that the question before the select board right now is whether to allocate some funds to study this or not and the Scope of that study as I understand it is number one to develop or find and prioritize that project list and talk about Is this all about streets and roads and and Pipes and you know things that aren't very exciting doesn't include other components like the piece of the community center or a park or other enhancements And then to also look at what is what is the actual likelihood that all of this would be viable So a lot of the great job talking about The risk assessment that south burlington went through again is our grand list really going to go up enough to fund The construction of the things that we need to build to make it happen We did a lot of really great planning and dreaming and visioning around tap borders from 2019 till 2022 And we did put some things on the map and start thinking about physically the way it would all would all fit Um But we definitely didn't go into the level of detail That a tip study would would take us which would be What are the projects that are necessary? What are the projects that are desirable? What are they going to cost? Are they likely to Generate the type of development that meets the town's vision and also allows the town to pay for the infrastructure that's needed So to me being skeptical is what this stage is all about And there are from from my perspective and I think areas Know forgotten conclusions that this is definitely the right tool For willison or for tap corners or right now what we do know is there's limited window of opportunity to consider it And we know that it's probably the most powerful tool That any vermont communities have been able to employ to do this Yeah, but we're asking next week is to take 70 000 that we could put some to some other use in the town In order to ask some really basic questions. So that's I wish I wish we were a little I wish there was an increment between zero and 40 and 70 To look at this a little bit harder. So it's phased in two parts. So The initial 35 000 from the consultant's estimate would be to do that analysis and then the additional 35 000 Maybe do apply for the district So it could be a decision for that Regardless of the town applied for a district or not, it's good in planning exercise It's taking the town to have a more active role in forecasting the future for tap farms that what the town wants to see a structure investment. So I think it's valuable either if the town doesn't end up applying for a district or not It gives us an opportunity to take a look at that with someone who has expertise So it's only 35 000 Right I'm a consultant Mentioned impact fees. We already have impact fees. Do you have more than than we have? Should we be increasing what we have to impact fees? So we use the impact fees primarily for the design phase So in order to hire the consultants to design the park or When we had federal funds for For market street, we may have used that the impact fees initially as a match for the federal funds before bringing in the tip and then And it was because those projects were already in the impact fee ordinance and those fees had been collected for those projects. It just happened that we also got a federal grant and that we also Um got the tip district. So then we were able to use them for those projects Other questions My question actually is really about like the involvement of developers and kind of the landowners within the fifth district That like what point did did you bring them in? Um to really consult with them and say like if if we do this will you like would you be more inclined to do that? I mean, were you uh And for our town specifically I guess Eric or Matt, you know, if we did do this would the consultants work with developers at that stage kind of the viability stage to really see if You know, we could kind of come up with numbers that would make this Reasonable for our town I can't answer that second part first that that would be part of the scope of work It's it's part of uh Have identifying what the priority projects are identifying the potential parcels and then trying to Actually the potential increment generated Based on the instructor investment initially. So the the town would have to decide based on those Projects how would prior to what it wanted to do based on And the consultants expertise would help us model that out as a risk a sense of For south brunington how how involved were the developers in Each part of this So I would say we were an unusual case or we're a different case than some of the other communities in vermont we were we Obtained our tip district at the nth hour At a time when they were restricted by the state And so we had to go to the legislature and ask for the tip district We also had Projects that were underway. So we had market street that had been in development And that we had had a lot of money for that project and we wanted to finish it And we knew that that we were not going to have enough money and would need some of the tip district financing to fund it. So So I would not I think you have to I think every community has to figure out for itself what the relationship with the private sector will be In our case while we brought the private sector in Frequently and often I would not say that we were in a position to bind anyone to an agreement that would result in Like a guaranteed revenue stream. So whereas I think that other if you look at other communities They may have those agreements in place And I and I would say part of that is the timing of our of our district. So Did anybody else have Comment or insight on the question? Nothing to add to that. Thanks I'll just say that as a as a local gauge of activity and interest, you know We are talking with the development community, the landowner community every day About concepts they have or things they might be interested in doing As infrastructure comes online And then, you know, we we just look at our record and what we're seeing for permitting. So, you know, we're About a not quite a year and a half into the adoption of the form-based code and we've we've had Several projects permitted or about to be permitted in one underway Under that code where we we know there's interest that has Arisen in willison as a result of willison adjusting its development standards And making things work a little better. So We would look to continue that conversation with that community and say, okay, you know That's these other things fall into place. What does that what does that look like for you? But this would this would kind of change that relationship, right because it would be like what what we do now is we we It's probably oversimplified simplified, but we help develop people who want to develop to get through the process Have the ability to maybe put a break on it here or there But this would be actually if Changing it so that if we didn't have the development then we owe money that we're going to have to take out of the taxpayers pockets from Everybody else's property tax or or A bigger allocation of the sales tax or whatever And that seems to be a different Different business relationship I'm not saying it's bad. I just different Within the law Yeah, I mean I doesn't change any of any of the regulations or the enforcement of the regulations Yeah, I don't I don't I'm not anticipating that willison has given you the next eb 5 new port Situation yeah, I you know and I won't be me Yeah, I think I think you're always I mean, I know our tip district is very oriented towards the community vision So that's something and and I think that's one of the reasons that the community has been Willing to take on the risk is because it is realizing a long-held community vision So that's been a big part Other questions or comments for folks Is does the town have the current skill level and time involved in doing the Federal grants no way we'd have to hire somebody Here's me I said there's no way we'd have to hire somebody sorry eric I can't really answer with any facts at all, but I know this is complicated Yeah, I think you know the reason to bring in a consultant to the analysis is we don't have the expertise on staff We do this analysis A lot on staff But I think if the town moves forward with this and decides to apply for a district is granted a district and really wants to it's not Partially going into it is jumping into both feet So you need the right capacity and house to be sure they can be managed Seeing what trilley's capacity is on the finance side and you know, it's a lot of project management and oversight As well, so I'd like to need to look at what we could what we would need to support operational Managing federal I will say from the regional planning commission side We will do a weekend to support the town and you know just as you saw I think you know eight or nine Different grants that we provided to help move South Burlington along and you know, and we've done that with other communities as well. So happy to support that and um, I think big picture Um, I just I can't get away from our housing market and just how broken it is right now and I say that In a positive way for you Because there is so much demand for housing in our area That is not being met that if if you can at all help to do things in building up your community to help meet that demand There are there's there the demand is there And it's thousands of units that we are short in Chittinac County. So That's my way of encouraging you, you know, and I mean we're watching Burlington Is you know, they did camber and rise and they're doing the their project in the old mall space, right? Those units are getting sucked up so fast You know, even the ones in your city center Yeah, they're already occupied or you know pre pre least so just I think you're at a point in time and in just our kind of The history of real estate in vermont where I think maybe the downside risk is not great Like just my personal opinion somebody uh Somebody applied for a tiff district and then basically isn't doing it There've been a few towns that have you know started one colchester started one. I think in 2010 and then Close it down in 2014. So there's been two or three that have started and and not gone through with it Just capacity you think or Yeah, or sometimes it may have been what was going on at the time That it didn't start to make it didn't continue to make sense You know in terms of the public investment versus what was going to happen on the private side. So And I I guess uh the one thing to take away from that is to know like Uh, yeah, you dive in but it doesn't mean you're yeah, you know falling down You can you can stop at some point, right? Yeah, my pillar had a that's right. Rather significant project Defeated in the zoning and permitting process. Oh, oh interesting Right and uh without the garage didn't make sense to advance the buy the hotel and garage didn't make sense to advance the rest of Oh, interesting interesting Thanks Learned questions. Can we get the wastewater allocation? Good point Oh, we know what we hold today and you know, it's all it's all part of the The big mixture here I I just wanted to To add to what everyone else had said about the just the overall management is that we did have our tenure audit last year Um, and we were told we had the cleanest tip audit. So it's possible Um, it was basically like thank you For the audit and that was that was it we paid a lot for it And it was a very intensive experience and it was terrifying But it was because you you don't know what will happen and you've heard so many stories But it was a very Very smooth process and and a lot of that was that we had a lot of consistency and management throughout and There was a lot of cross-checking between finance And myself and other people that were managing projects. So that So that when they asked for things we were able to provide them and we had found mistakes early in our process and we're able to Ensure that all of the numbers worked by the time the auditor got there and when I say worked we understood and were able to to Pay everything correctly And the other thing about federal grants is that v-trans has a great assistant section and so they do most of the work Oh, it's nice So it's still a federal grant and there's still a lot of attention to but they guide you through that process Well, thank you. Yeah, thank you all of you Yeah, see you best wishes Very very informative. Thanks for your time. Um, we do have about 50 minutes of business left if you guys want to stay Any opportunity Yeah That's gonna be I was gonna say 53 Next on the agenda zoning bylaw amendment overview Matt, you're still up. I'm still here Ask you to take it away great, um So the the purpose of the memo in your packet and of our conversation tonight Is to review some proposed changes to willis-tons unified development bylaw They're currently under consideration by the planning commission who is holding their public hearing on these tonight And so I wanted to review them sort of in in two chunks A change to the official map and then everything else But really briefly the change to the official map is in response to a request to do so from the majority landowner in this area of vermont state university and the everything else is um Williston's response to changes in requirements for what zoning must do or limitations on what zoning in vermont can do That came out of the adoption of the home act in june of 2023 by the legislature and signed into law by the governor so, um That's my very brief introduction Um, we are holding these as two separate hearing items in the planning commission because one is simple and the other has quite a Bit more stuff in it. Um, and we wanted to keep them separate But it's likely that both will be transmitted to the select board um from the planning commission After tonight, um, and the next step for the select board would be to direct staff to mourn a public hearing so that you all can consider them In that step of adoption That's the beginning. Okay, and I'll talk about the map So as I said the first proposed amendment is An amendment to the town's official map and other maps that identify future streets on the vtsu campus as part of the form-based code project Williston also considered and adopted an official map which documents all of the existing streets in taft corners and throughout the town As well as desired future streets in taft corners and generally where a future street was added to the map it was in consideration of Things like existing constraints potential future development plans And the idea of maintaining A network of walkable blocks that were of a certain dimension generally no more than three or four hundred feet on a side And the consultant that helped us do this work Reached out to at the time vermont technical college And said well, what about what about this campus? What should we do here? um And they had a conversation about what might the future of vermont technical college look like And the conclusion of that was well, let's let's reimagine. This is a more traditional college campus. Let's put a big entry boulevard Coming off of paul street Into the interior of the campus. Let's imagine the whole campus being redeveloped with sort of a grand entry in a quad and buildings, etc And those streets what we call phase two streets meaning they're not required to be constructed unless the whole site is reworked We're put on to the map And adopted into law in october of 2022 So fast forward to the last few months Um, and we've had some changes vermont technical college is now a component of vermont state university vermont state university is engaged in comprehensive planning across all of their campuses and programs in the state And their representatives reached out to us and said You know as we manage this property Both both retaining some of it possibly disposing or reusing some of it reconfiguring it These roads don't really work for us these future roads they they present an impediment to us Being able to decide what we want to do with the property Would you consider taking them off the map? So We discussed this with the planning commission the planning commission was generally supportive of that and a few of the reasons for that are Number one these were always sort of A dream They weren't based on any solid plans that vtc or the town necessarily had for the area They were based on some general principles. We had in adopting the form-based code They are also running across property that is an educational facility that also happens to be owned and operated by a government entity Which means that The owner here enjoys a partial but very significant exemption from local zoning Which is where this map and these streets come from They don't have the same effect in terms of Requiring a landowner to build around them or follow them that they would if they were on privately held land So in our in our conversation with vtsu. They said well, we we know we have those exemptions, but just the same We'd feel more able to to plan for this campus if they were simply removed under an amendment So that's the proposal Hopefully if you if you print it in color you can see them if you did like me and print it in black and white It's it's hard to see what goes away, but it kind of makes a tee through the middle of the circle and Should vtsu or some future agency want to come back in and master plan this and create more development potential by laying out A different pattern of streets here. They certainly could the planning commission and select board could certainly consider that But until such time this amendment would give vtsu a clean slate To do their campus planning here just Just i was with you until the last sentence so if they um If they did decide to just knock down the building it's there and develop a different campus, especially within their little circle there Would they have to come back to the town to ask for permission for the street layout? They might or they might want to work with us to do it. Um There's there's two things one is because of that exemption. They might not functionally have to The other thing is our form-based code actually creates a whole category of development That doesn't have to meet the same standards as the rest of it called civic building because oftentimes civic buildings like college Buildings or libraries or police stations or town halls Are special and they might be set back from the street or they might be arranged on the site in a different way Or they might have a big walkway leading up to them instead of you know being up on the sidewalk So our adopted code in addition to the the owners having an exemption from our code Our adopted code actually anticipates that civic buildings might get laid out differently So depending on what someone wants to do here They might or might not need or want to come back to the town to uh rearrange things there But there's certainly an openness on the part of the planning commission to you know consider that and work with Work with the university if they so desire Other questions on this portion So i'll just i'll just mention That this is under an active hearing at the planning commission right now I've actually asked them to keep that hearing open until I run back over there when i'm done here So if there was any input you had that you wanted me to give them They could actually consider it in their transmittal draft might not be so important for that one As the next But let's dive into the home act amendments So act 47 known as the home act Um generally a piece of legislation designed to increase the supply of housing in vermont and make it easier for new homes in vermont To be built and it had a lot of different and fairly wide ranging and significant impacts To the authority that vermont communities have over how they can limit new residential development in their zoning So in my memo the bullet list There summarizes the big ones and and the ones we needed to be responsive to In our bylaw amendment night and I should just mention up front. I think I did it later in the memo The law says municipalities shall amend their bylaws to do the following And most of this became effective on july 1 meaning that we have to operate as if these things are in place Already And in fact we've had some proposals where we've had to do that already. So this is really The state saying okay towns catch up to us You got to change your rules. So briefly, um, we have new limitations on how much parking can be required for residential projects Um, you cannot require more than one parking space for residential unit Except where there's not nearby municipal parking where you cannot require more than one and a half spaces per unit um, we were About at functionally 1.6 spaces per unit. Uh in most of our residential zones already We've made an adjustment in the draft. Um to 1.5 We do not think we really have anywhere right now that counts as being proximate to municipal parking where you would go down one Our municipal parking where it exists is either here in the village or it's um street parking Which is severely limited in its usability during the winter months You can't park there overnight for six months out of the year. Um, it doesn't make sense in my mind to to account that um dwelling types Up to a four plex dwelling type must be allowed wherever land is zoned for residential use and water and sewer Is provided. Um, and it must be allowed using the same dimensional requirements meaning setbacks and lot sizes As a single unit dwelling so really briefly, um In the residential zoning district here in the village and in all of our mixed use districts in tap corners We've always allowed a four plex as a dwelling type The only place where we limit the dwelling type is actually out in the ag rural Where one and two family homes single family homes and duplexes are the only allowed dwelling types So what this what this change says is if you allow residential use and you provide water and sewer You've got to allow at least a four plex Um, so we've gone through all of our residential zones to make sure that they say that to make sure there aren't any special Setbacks or dimensional requirements or minimum lot size requirements that would preclude somebody from doing that and I I will mention um North of mountain view road and 2a from hurricane lane up toward walker hill There are a handful of small residential parcels that are in the ag rural zoning district But are served by water and sewer Where that four plex provision would have would apply In our edits to the bylaw We've basically just quoted this language and said if there's water and sewer and residential is allowed You can build a four plex same dimensional requirements um Residential density municipalities must allow at least five units per acre in areas served by water and sewer So by contrast here in the village our default is two units per acre In the residential zoning district that surrounds it. We allow three, but we already allow up to five For projects that have a significant portion of affordable housing now everywhere that is zoned residential And has water and sewer you must allow five units per acre Everywhere else in town that's zoned residential is is tapped corners or gateway. We were already allowing at least five per acre So we were okay There Further there are residential density bonuses So for a affordable housing project municipalities must allow a 40 percent residential density bonus So what does that mean? So if you allow if you have to allow five If they do an affordable housing project you have to allow seven An affordable housing project I I got to put my one footnote and the memo makes it look very official This is a little different than the way we see affordable for our inclusionary zoning It's a state law definition And the biggest difference here is it's 20 percent of the dwellings not the 10 or 15 we require inclusionary zoning And the income limit is different if you're doing rental versus ownership So if you're building rental to be affordable, you've got to be affordable to households making no more than 80 percent of the area median income But if you're building for ownership, they need to be affordable to households making no more than 120 Of the area median income Ownership homes are allowed to be more expensive Essentially in this definition So we now need to cite to that definition And what we've essentially done in the bylaw and it is replaced any density bonuses that we had for affordable housing with the ones that the state requires Generally, these are a little bit Better bonuses for a little bit smaller percentages than we had so we were we were doing a 30 percent bonus to go for Or a 30 percent affordability limit of affordability percentage 30 percent affordable units to go from three to five in the rzd So now you can do 20 percent of your units affordable to go from five to seven in the rzd Why because the legislature said we have to Um, and and that's where we've set that that just don't mean to get in the weeds But when we talk about acreage is that buildable land or all land the advice we've gotten because it's not stated explicitly in the law Is municipalities may continue to calculate density using the method they have So in williston, we take out wetlands We take out wetland buffers and we take out certain steep slopes and then the acres that are left are the buildable acres And that's where your your dwelling yield comes from As far as we understand it, we are still allowed to do that this draft leaves all of that in place Great. Thank you There's also a residential height bonus Municipalities must allow one additional habitable floor above the maximum allowed building height for affordable housing projects I will come back to that picture On the next page and we can talk about that And as I said zoning by-law amendments, we are required to make these amendments In order to comply with the law So Those are things that became effective Uh, we are operating already in our development review as if they have been made part of our by-law again because we have to This is essentially catch up and clean up There are some things that kind of come along with this and that's the next section of my memo in order to make it easier And more clear to administer all of this within Our by-law it helps if we start using the same terminology as the state so One recommendation we have that is in your draft is we are getting rid of the infamous dwelling unit equivalent And returning to dwelling as a basis for calculating All density all allowed units per acre Anybody who's in growth management would go back to dwelling And so what this means is whether you're building a studio a one bedroom a two bedroom or more Each of those will simply be called a dwelling The staff would really like This to be part of it It makes it a lot easier to administer and calculate On our growth management and our density bonuses and affordability requirements And it aligns us with the way the state talks about residential density and what we are and aren't allowed to do So reduces complexity Dwellings and dwellings dwelling would we keep the du e for store for sewer sewer sewer happens on a bedroom basis, so When somebody goes to purchase their sewer allocation, they have to buy enough to support the bedrooms in the unit they're building For growth management instead of a studio being a half dwelling unit, and there's so many available It's just a whole dwelling. So It may it it in some perspectives It reduces the number of units available in the growth management system depending on what someone's building That if anything would serve as an incentive for them to go into our inclusionary zoning pathway instead That's what that's what we think would happen um, so Everywhere we we use dwelling dwelling unit equivalent goes away and then in taff corners the proposal is to Not have a zoning district underneath the form-based code and then the form-based code Because we have density standards discussed in in both among other development standards But rather just to make the form-based code a zoning district. Um, this Takes the overlay makes it a district on the map Of all the district it overlays It overlays the business park district entirely which is Blair park. So that district just goes away Functionally all of the development standards for this area live in the form-based code or other chapters of the bylaw They don't live in the zoning chapters anymore anyway So again just makes it easier to administer and track all these other things. Um that have to happen because of state law There are two things that I called out that are in the underlying zoning That would need to be carried up into the form-based code to make this As little of a change as possible from what's happening out there right now And those are to add two prohibited uses to the use table in the form-based code and that's gas stations and retail cannabis retail cannabis The select board voted some years ago to prohibit that in the taft corner zoning district the business park zoning district And the mixed-use residential district, which is most of what the form-based code overlays Um, there's a little tiny bit of mixed-use commercial that that rides along with that But it would just be to say right now that prohibition lives in the underlying district it's not discussed in form-based code it would need to be brought up and The prohibition is much older, but it's the same structure when it comes to gas stations So retail fuel has not been allowed in the taft corners growth center for Well since simons plaza was built It was it was actually not allowed at the time simons plaza was built But not in a affirmative enough way for a judge to agree that it's not allowed by simons plaza exists So it would carry that prohibition forward Um Not because we really want to prohibit those things But because they're prohibited in the underlying zoning that would be replaced entirely by turning the overlay district into a zoning district So that means that friendlies were friendlies was I got you know resold that would Be prohibited to put another gas station here today It's prohibited because it's in the taft corner zoning district which prohibits them If this were adopted it would be prohibited Because even though the taft corners district went away the prohibition carried forward to the form-based code district And then last page talking about building height so The extra floor for an affordable housing project applies in all zoning districts Everywhere you have a height limit you need to allow an extra floor on top of that For these state defined affordable housing projects And in most parts of town in fact even in most sort of sub areas of the form-based code That's more height, but it's it's nothing the town doesn't allow at least somewhere In most of the town like here in the rzd or the village we have a 36 foot height limit If somebody wanted to go to 48 for one of these projects they could We talked about Should we be adjusting heights everywhere for this the planning commission felt no But the maximum height in the form-based code area was The number one most challenging and controversial aspect of the entire code The town of williston worked really hard to come up with Six stories in an 87 foot height limit And a year later the legislature came and slapped another story on top And um You know Across the entire state. I am sure that provision adds meaningful amounts of of housing potential to lots and lots of communities But in williston what it did result in Is this this building I have the picture of This is six stories. It actually is less than 87 feet. It still is under the town's absolute limit And it's six stories with a flat roof where normally a flat roof building would only be allowed at five stories And that would be the the maximum height of a flat roof building So folks who are around for form-based code might remember The way all of our heights work is there's a flat roof limit If you want to put a pitched roof on top of that flat roof limit you can use it for occupiable space We call that an attic story so what was settled on was Five stories flat with a sixth attic story All of that went up by a story because of the passage of the home act So what the planning commission is proposing Would be in that tallest district that was adopted at five and six But is now effectively six and seven due to the home act We dropped down a story to four and five in other words The maximum height that the select board adopted in october 2022 would only be accessible to affordable housing projects instead of all projects But there wouldn't be anything Seven stories tall and there wouldn't be anything six stories with a flat roof If this bylaw changes it will not affect the project. I have the picture of here That was my question. Did you read that? They are they are vested In in the version of the laws that were in place at the time they submitted a complete application and and I've actually At the at the end of last week issued a zoning approval for this based on those rules, but I think and the planning commission thinks that it makes sense to keep the absolute tallest height limit Where it was let the affordability be the bonus that gets you to the absolute tallest but does not take you over it um So that's the that's the last edit Would be to dial back that tallest height So the tallest possible thing would be within the limits adopted by the board in 2022 So a bit of a bit of a whirlwind tour if anybody actually ventured into the hearing draft You probably saw that it was 306 pages long I think not to 209 ran at a time it touches A lot of pages of the of the bylaw but generally in small ways It's just that those discussions of things like zoning densities and allowed unit types are All throughout the document. So we had to make a really a global run through it to make all the changes that were needed Happy to answer any questions questions Put no question just for fun. Actually, it's not just for fun. I'm really curious this affordable housing definition that the vermont law does this match our inclusionary zoning definition of affordable It does not I remember it because I remember our that's just what it's at 100 of the average So, um, it matt it doesn't match it in two ways The amount of units that are required to be affordable in in for us is either 10 or 15 percent This is 20. Yep, and then the affordability limits are different So to be inclusionary in williston under our bylaws You either need to do 10 of your units affordable at 80 percent area median income Or 15 percent of your units affordable at 100 percent of the area median income And we do not distinguish between whether those units are intended for ownership or rental In the state's rule, it's always 20 percent of the units But if they're rentals, they need to be more limited in their cost than if they are for sale If they're for sale, you can sell them for more If they're for rent, you can rent them. You must rent less Thank you Other questions Since we haven't received any the recommendations from the The committee we can't really set a date or request a public hearing on these tonight tonight I think you can However, if if you were to get something from the planning commission that didn't look like this, you would you would then want to Push it off There's there's a bit of a Sense of I won't say urgency, but desire for timeliness particularly on the part of btsu with the map So we were looking for direction as staff as to whether we could You know start taking a look at when we could advertise a hearing for Assuming what would come over from the planning commission would be Would be doable the the legal requirement is that You must not hold your hearing Less than 15 days following the submittal of the draft to you by the planning commission So they need to they need to give it to you somehow And and the hearing can't happen for at least two weeks after that because That's the warning period for the select board But Matt and I chat today just think They're having a hearing at seven o'clock before was hearing us from eight o'clock. Do we have a sequencing issue? We fell should the board want to direct staff to want a public hearing and Could add something to the motion upon receipt of the planning commission's I mean if if I walk over there and they they tell me they're all set if you're all set I'll come back and tell you they're all set with the draft as written. I'm happy to happy to communicate that So yeah, just for my clarification. I'm a little slow sometimes the state sets the minimum affordable housing In the town is requiring housing to be more affordable than what the state is We we are um, so that That state definition in the law doesn't say everybody in vermont has to use this definition It says for certain purposes. We the state of vermont use this definition um, the state that definition existed before this law the state was using it In relation to the way certain projects were reviewed under act 250 So when the legislature wrote this they just pointed at this existing Definition said that's that's going to be the threshold For towns to be required to give this density bonus So they're They're different. They're they're allowed To be different it makes our life a little more challenging But as it as it goes I like where williston landed on its requirements And I wouldn't recommend Changing its requirements for its inclusionary zoning path given that they are a little bit tighter than what the state uses for its definition I agree Yeah, and there's no requirement that we change that coming out of this law We just have to use their definition for granting the density bonus or the height bonus And the height Or the height restriction includes the pitch truth, correct The the absolute 87 foot limit includes everything. Yes uh, I heard a lot about the building heights myself To biggest touch it's an issue. Yeah, I'm going to restrict your barn height though The 87 feet barn Maybe if we put it on on edge I think it's got a pitched roof here Other questions Were there any big discussions at the planning Commission about any of these? I mean they kind of make sense to me. I just don't know what yeah Not big, but we we in in the initial draft I floated the idea of taking all of the different sub areas of form-based code and dropping all of them by a story Um, you know, did you just want to lower everything? And the planning commission looked at that and said well, you know In some places that drops the maximum from three down to two which feels like not very much And the only place where it's necessary to really stay under that 87 foot height limit is in what we call the town center and shopfront Frontages, which are the tallest ones, right? Um, I think the commission also wanted to strike a balance between You know being supportive of the creation of housing and being concerned about building height So this this felt like the right balance to them to just go after the tall one the question Now there are proposed motions and perhaps they need to be edited Let me try and one of that I moved to schedule a public hearing on proposed amendments to the town official map subject to receipt of the amendment from the planning commission And further to move to schedule a public hearing on proposed amendments to the will list and unified development by-law for compliance of this 2023 home act subject to receipt of the amendments from the planning commission Is there a second? They're for the discussion All those in favor say aye. All right. Hi Proposed name the ayes have it Thank you very much Thank you Energy efficiency and conservation block grant options Linda, thank you for coming forward. Um Thank you for having jump right in. Okay. Um So Williston, um is one of 10 Vermont municipalities that is going to receive 75 000 in formula funding from the department of energies if energy efficiency and conservation block grants um and so The memo that you have is just Proposing a recommendation for using Um this grant funding in combination with other leveraged funds Including some town ARPA funding um so The department of energy provided an alternative to a traditional grant process, which is um like a new Voucher program and uh, so they have this program where you can apply for a voucher Um to purchase equipment or technical assistance from the department of energy Uh, this option is much more streamlined than a traditional grant But the trade-off is that there's very strict limitations as to what you can do with a voucher without triggering the more onerous federal requirements like data spake and ornipa Regulations so in coming up with these recommendations Um, we're really thinking about what's going to be easy for the town to do and we'll still achieve some of the town's goals Um related to energy um, so I consulted with the energy committee department of public works recreation department and town manager in coming up with these recommendations And so we're recommending that this grant be used to purchase two new electric mowers ride on ride on mowers one for dpw and one for um recreation parks um and an electric fleet vehicle that um could be used across departments Instead of people using their own personal vehicles and getting reimbursed so um This proposed use of the e cbg funding would um meet A lot of the town's goals it would it would um start the process of transitioning the town's fleet to electric by providing a couple of um demonstrations of of electric vehicle technology including the mowers and um if if an ev was purchased It would be a way for town departments and town staff to Drive it around test it out become familiar with it and and might uh You know be able to convince other departments to transition to evs As replacements for their gas powered vehicles um, it also provides a highly visible trend uh demonstration of electric lawn care and grounds equipment for the town so You know just people a lot of people use the rec fields and you know, they see these electric mowers around um that Dem that basically is the town leading by example and um You know, which will maybe Get other folks curious about electric powered equipment Um, it will reduce life cycle costs for the mowers It'll reduce annual fuel consumption. It will reduce carbon emissions um It will save some money on uh mileage reimbursements although the amount that Um, you'll see in that footnote that the amount that's listed is not right I was looking under the wrong column and that's actually the the amount that was budgeted for fy 24 So it's more along the lines of a little over $2,000 that was spent for mileage In fy 23 But the cost of the operational costs of electric vehicles are A lot less than 52 cents per mile and from what I've heard The reimbursement rate is going up to 67 per 67 cents per mile So anyway We are requesting the select board to consider allocating up to $25,000 from ARPA funding to Cover the the town's portion of funding for this project There's other leveraged sources of funding including green mountain power rebates And possibly a Grant from the vermont electrifier fleet grant program which we haven't applied to yet, but we will if if the select board Agrees with these proposed expenditure This use of the grant And then there's also a possible A probable federal tax credit through The federal clean vehicle tax credit which municipalities can benefit from now through a direct pay option There'll be a little bit of sort of untangling that to kind of make sure that it's done properly, etc So You know, I just want to mention that, you know, some neighboring municipalities have taken steps to electrify their fleets Burlington Now has 35 electric vehicles And The the town also had some analysis done by Through the department of energies clean energy to communities program that demonstrated that That if the town did transition light duty electric A light duty pickup trucks to electric vehicles That the greenhouse gas emissions could decrease by as much as 76 The total cost of that ownership would be comparable Or decreased slightly So this we're recommending These that the grant be used this way because it does further the town's energy goals Namely increasing the share of light duty electric vehicles registered in williston and Replacing the town's light duty vehicles with EVs as the individual vehicles are due for for replacement So this grant really provides a great opportunity for the town to lead by example and and start to transition The town's fleet to electric I'm happy to answer questions if anybody has any questions Um, I love the mowers I'm kind of bumping on Investing in a car that we don't have now and we'll get 4 000 miles a year usage. I don't think that's a great Let's just say this. Is there a reason that we didn't choose to replace the light duty truck instead I want the electric vehicle. I just not sure I want to add a Underutilized car to the fleet right sense. Um, I think the reason has been a hesitancy of the town departments to You know have an electric pickup truck I mean, you know, frankly that would be my preference that it, you know be Uh replace one of the current gas electric gas pickup trucks But um, there is definitely hesitancy to to kind of make that commitment We've um, we've looked it looked into at the last couple of cycles and we We've run into a supply issue as well and a state contract issue on some of these vehicles I I think we we looked at it one of them for the command vehicle for the fire department We don't have enough kind of real world information on How that would look as these vehicles could be under fire See for several hours the charge went now what that looks like to Recharge in a real time. So we need some more feedback from other departments for making making that Well, I totally get an unemergency vehicle. So that would be a a bit of a stretch I probably wouldn't want to be reliant on the someone remember to plug in the ambulance if I had our stack But I would think that public works or somebody I mean you got to start somewhere And I don't think starting with the With a Chevy bolt is going to could move anybody forward on wanting on trusting electric vehicles for a truck I just can't see it seems like a It'd be like saying your mower works there for you going to violate the truck I mean these guys are not going to be driving your driving that bolt, you know very often so We've tried to get them the last year and then just spend a supply issue as well Yeah, they're more expensive, but yeah, but but here you but that's why that's why you get a grant Yeah, true that um if uh, if we were to purchase a pickup truck that would kind of increase the Portion of the town's expense because the grant wouldn't you know that you have about $40,000 left after the mowers So I agree with gene it makes more sense to replace a vehicle than to add another vehicle to the fleet Just because we have the money to add a vehicle to the fleet Who we add one and sell one Sell on used vehicle So I don't think we have a used Vehicle that's not in the fire department police department or the public works department. Yeah I mean there isn't a there isn't a sedan sitting around right now. That's kind of the problem I mean that's exactly what I was thinking Ted is I would be very excited about this if we could even if we sold one That's not You know it's a year or two ahead of when we would sell it That's that's all well and good for me. It's still yeah me too You know, I will say the the hesitancy on electric vehicles. I mean I was um, I was forced into buying one And Because it's often the case but I I'm just you know My vehicle has a 300 mile capacity on it and maybe it's You know subtract some miles in the cold weather But I've just tooling around chitin in county or you know I go up to lamoille county quite a bit for my job St. John'sbury on occasion. I've never had an issue with yeah, I don't have any issue with mine either now that I can plug it in But I did when the power was out Yeah, had to get in line so at the hand of first to plug my car in so that was No, I'm totally with you. I don't see I don't I don't see any reason why a non-emergency vehicle wouldn't wouldn't work I would even consider an emergency vehicle frankly I mean, I don't know how many how many times a car goes Trucker a car goes 300 miles without having a chance to stop for an hour They have to the non-emergency vehicles have to like the police cruisers have to keep running, right? So even if they're not Driving they have to be running still Yeah I Said outside last week that's me for an hour. Yeah, some vehicles running the whole time Could we my oh, sorry I interrupt you Jane um, my question actually was about the mowers. Um I support fully having the electric motors. I'm glad we're going to do that. Um, I just I can't recall if in the budget this was Kind of an item we had planned for Obviously, we have you know maintenance and capital expenses put towards those things already So are we replacing? Would we be selling some of the gas powered mowers then? Then we would recoup some of that cost there too or would be keeping those gas powered mowers in the fleet Um, I just again, I can't remember how if this is in the budget somewhere or you know, how this is handled Yep, good question. This would be expanding the fleet by the two mowers and um, as we spoke with parks and Public works. There's a need for additional more capacity moving forward. Uh, for example, alunbrook parks We build that out. We'll need a mower for that park and it gives uh, the department the ability to Really test out these electric mowers. So when it's time to replace the gas power ones, we can look at moving those two as well So there's no formal action, but we are being asked for consensus or our input on the suggested use of the grant It sounds like the mowers are not controversial A fair statement. Yes Okay So I didn't know we were adding to the fleet, but I'll let I'll let I'll let them have it Sorry, what I thought we were replacing at least one. I didn't know we were going to four mowers Are they going to come back and ask for four grounds people? No, okay We'll say no I have a question then about policy about town policy then, you know about mileage reimbursement and so forth then I know that like for instance the state, you know, if you have to go travel beyond x amount of distance And you enter just a fleet vehicle like available You know, you're supposed to take that over taking your own personal vehicle and getting mileage reimbursement Would you know if we did get this town like fleet vehicle would But could we make a policy that that's you know People needed to utilize that before utilizing their own personal vehicle Yeah, we certainly we certainly could and another town I worked in we had Just system wise people would sign it out from the town manager's office, but that would be my intent We have this fleet vehicle. We want it to be used and we have some people that attend training or conferences Obviously, there's a there's a conflict on the same day everyone can't can't take the vehicle, but that would be my preference if we We invested Yeah, I still have to say that you know $2,000 is 4,000 miles and that's and it's and it's mostly Finance and planning and zoning. So I don't that's not I don't see that as a big as a way to get More like duty trucks or emergency vehicles to be used. So I mean Could we just Asked that you go push a little bit harder on the truck. I mean, we're not going to make a decision tonight anyway I would say I'm probably not in favor of it if it's a new vehicle for That's going to get a couple thousand miles your usage I can I'll go check our capital plan and see when we have a replacement up next. We just Recreation truck payment that was an insurance claim that one. So I just need to look at see when When that and the dbw trucks are up replacement We can check in and see kind of what the pricing Yeah, the other right. It was this was the state contract That was uh, we had ordered that a while ago It's taken a long time to get vehicles right now right I remember Linda's state contract It wasn't really covered a lot of EV's at this They have hardly anything. Um, I just got to bed Because of battery powered tools fall under that block grant Yes, so any block any battery powered tool like a weed lacquer, right? Yeah, that was also considered and um Those come and go pretty quickly. They don't last long Yeah, I mean, I mean You could um You know, I was trying to kind of come up with the the combination that would use every last sentence Not leave anything on the table if you took out The EV and instead, you know, like there's only so many hand tools you can get but they're At like, you know, 400 500 a pop but but you know, you could get You know, three or four weed backers you could get, you know, a few chain saws But you're not going to use up, you know, 40 grand the whole grant There's a whole bunch of lighting products and capital Yeah, I was going to say Well, it has done a lot of work working into that to try to see if you could make it work and like about the LEDs the LEDs Yeah, I mean so That yeah, that would be another Possible use but then you get into installation which brings you into bacon davis territory and So forth. I mean, it's not that that we couldn't do that But it it just um You know, it makes it a little more complicated. So I was trying to think of things that were easy One of you could build up by all the materials under the grant and do Installation they still would consider installation part of the project and subject to those grant requirements It's it's not impossible taken davis No, it's yeah But yeah, it was definitely consideration The energy committee they they looked at all these ideas I agree with gene So does does this conversation give you enough guidance where to go next? I'll get some more information on on truck I want we want to bring it to the board tonight because as as it was modeled out here to make And this draft of the project work. We need a little bit So it's kind of a precursor to that that discussion to get all those ideas So what we can do for the next week We'll review the capital replacement schedule for a pickup truck We'll get an idea kind of what the pricing for those trucks are Usually with a state contract price for for vehicles we can get Surely the price comes down $30,000 sometimes on a vehicle versus the law price But you have to wait about three and a half years Depending when they when they come in So we're kind of these EVs are the trucks especially can be a little more expensive You don't have that state price. So it's a policy question for the select board You can you can leverage this grant to make that initial purchase for something like this too But you might be paying a little more money for something Right now, but it's a policy institution for you. How do you want to prioritize that? How do you want to leverage these grant monies and once we get the vehicle we start saving for replacing the vehicle so It's up to you how you want it before we have a good opportunity $75,000 with federal government More federal money. How do you want to spend it? When do you have to commit this money? So we have to even though This is formula funding. We still have to submit an application and that has to be submitted by I believe it's it's april so When do you have to have it spent by oh, um, and then I I believe they give you two years I'll check on that too Thank you for all this. I'm still working on your laying though. That's a problem, but I'm going to get that in somehow So does that give you enough? We'll come back next meeting. I mean, frankly, it's only $2,000 out of Arpa, right? So we could say no on arpa next 25 No Oh, what we're looking at here other leveraged funds It's like a phase in the first I thought that was for the mowers. Okay. Look at under the chart. That's about 25 We want to spend that money for the police officers for the body cams. Yeah, but the 25,000 is for everything, right? That was Yeah, right Right, but if we said if we approve the arpa money for the mowers But not for the What am I missing? So so for this the spreadsheet on the first page. Yeah the The arpa funds Would be coming would be go toward the mowers The ev would largely be Grant spent from the cbg grant plus the rebate on green nonpower So we we can divide this up whatever way that The mowers if they're about 61,000 and then we you could say Look at another way to spend the last 14,000 for example, or we can see what the truck looks like and we might say Rather spend all the grant on the truck So there's no limitation like there's no matching you have to spend this much on the grant and this much somewhere else It's just this is the amount of money Okay, we don't have to spend every dollar of it. Yes, we do Yeah, I have a question about the charging infrastructure actually So the the five thousand dollars the charging infrastructure Is that would that be? Utilizable usable by You know other electric vehicles future central electric vehicles or Specific infrastructure to say that Chevy volt No, it would be Usable by any electric vehicle. So it could be and and honestly, it's not like a a Thing that's like like you can do without it You could literally plug the car into a 120 volt outlet and charge it overnight that way So this would be it's not a must have but it would be a it's sort of a nice to have and the five thousand dollars was like a Conserved, I mean, it's like, you know, if they had to do a lot of pulling wires here and there and They weren't you know, they're not sure what it would actually take to put one in I'm sorry, did Greta ask how much would it cost for an additional charger? It's on the question. She asked if it was a public could could it be used by other vehicles? If much as a cost put a charger in would that Doesn't cost five thousand dollars, but unless it's really complicated installation Yeah, right. Yeah The time to sort with the parking lot project will have the content there will be hopefully adding more chargers over time And I'll be using But those chargers qualify for the plant block grant Yep, I believe so. Yeah, but the timing is, you know Because we have to apply for this and pretty much know what we want to do with it By april I think that they'd need, you know, I think that uh, since we don't know exactly Where the chargers are going in the parking lot and don't have a really detailed plan for that. I think I don't I think it would really work for this grant But again, you have the direction you need If we can move on It's after nine o'clock and I would if we can go on 15 minutes behind at least um the next item v trans mileage certificate Eric, can you walk us through that? This one should be easy. Yep Every year the town needs to adopt the mileage certificate to reflect its current mileage at the state base. It's uh Award formula based on that mileage. There's been no changes in the last year Motion is suggested Okay, I move to approve the 2024 certificate of highway mileage. Is there a second second further discussion? God, no, all those in favor say aye. Aye. All those The eyes have it Next board of civil authority appointment so this is uh There's an email from the wilson republican party chair cindy roy requesting appointment of penn piggy, uh, woodmere to the bca for Only election related functions. It's really no members of the republican party on the bca I consulted with town clerk sarah mason under state law if the bca does not contain at least three members from each major political party From the party may submit a written request to the legislative body of municipality Members of the party to be appointed to address the under representation for election related functions The statute then states the select board shall appoint the person or person submitted by the underrepresented political party To bring us representation on the board of civil authority to three The republican party has put forward one name so far. They think they'd request an additional two names if they choose There's a Questions for eric. We've done this twice in the recent past so Thing to do i'm just confused the difference between the board of civil authority and the justice of the piece This person when you say election only jps are on the board of civil authority, but they also serve in Other capacities as well What am i it's my brain is freezing but the um Board of abatement i'd make board of abatement Uh, no, this is the this this person will only serve for i know but the jps serve on other jps do with the bca and uh, yes So we have a Jp who doesn't do elections. It's not a jp. Just a member of the board of civil authority So i think we have a jp adjust so the piece open Is there a fixed number on the board of civil authority? Maybe that's why i'm getting confused Well, there are they can change them for this purpose. Yeah, there's i think it's the same question Yeah, it's 15. I think it's 15, but uh, if there's not this representation It can exceed that to allow an extra up to three of each major political party Okay, so i think we have a justice of the piece opening, right? of course But we have oh no we we did we do yeah, yeah, that's like currently i have 14 jps because we have one vacancy that's being Proposed to the governor. Yeah, and so that would be a different process than this Got it. Okay. I'm feeling more comfortable now. Yeah In this um when I was chair of the richmond democratic committee, uh Which is a lofty position. Um, I uh We we had a deal with the republicans in town where each of us would nominate There were 12 jp positions and each party would nominate six people. So there was always uh, even uh Even and we don't do that in williston But we it would make sense to have people from other political parties on on the board of civil authority So there is a proposed motion Move to a point how you think he would buy her to the board of civil authority for unexplored hired terms through january 31 2025 is there a second second for the discussion All those in favor say hi. Hi. Hi. The eyes have it Brings us up to managers report um So a whole lot for reports. I did testify last friday to house corrections and institutions about the former state police property on root 2a had a good discussion with the committee I think it's going to come down to a continued dialogue about Our requests have the town with the right of first refusal for the property and uh I don't know if they said last time I talked to the board about this They're stated in appraisal earlier this year and the fair market value is about 2.6 million dollars If the town gets this right of first refusal, the town's certainly not locked into that We just get to have a thoughtful discussion about those Considered exercising that that right or not having a discussion and community about that This this committee's position is um, it's really understand that's a good thing to look at the town's behalf They're also looking at um monies to the capital fund and They got feedback from buildings and general services that if they put this on the open market They may get more than the fair market value Seems to be on the property that has a lot of interest according to their property So, um, but like we have me back, uh We'll talk about this another month or so in the next few weeks You know probably the theme of discussion in a chapel legislative council Terrorists are in that committee for many years. I did and I said in I said it in on the on the streaming of the committee meeting that Eric testified on and um It didn't surprise me that they were talking because this is a whole different ball game that we usually saw at the committee usually the lands are not significantly priced so that The department of buildings and general services can We'll go out for bids for properties They can accept any bid that's higher or lower or whatever or reject any bid that comes in The question was raised. Well, what happens if Williston gets the first right of refusal for the property for let's say 2.3 million and We buy it and they decide to sell it somebody else you get money for it does that and the monies that that uh are paid by whoever goes back to the capital budget for Use within the capital budget and the capital budget is set at a certain amount by The debt affordability committee so this would increase the amount of money that they would have buy it whatever So that's the the thing they're wrestling with right now and we did when I was there for the 10 years We never had that problem It's not a problem is it well it is for us Could be continued yeah board update on that and then just a question is the board um Participate executive session for next meeting with a 630 start time Yep, okay, okay for you Greta Yeah, she said all right good Greta. Are we good with that? Yep, sorry. Sorry for flagging. Um, yeah, that's great. Okay, perfect. Um, that's all I have Okay, uh, and therefore bring us to other business. Is there any other business? I think there's other business, but I'm thinking about next next meeting We're going to be talking about the ARPA funds and how to spend them and I wondered if We've done this sort of past this If each of us comes up with like five ideas We're spending ARPA funds and presents them at the next meeting and see if we have any agreement on certain ones then we can at least know that we So something we can agree on Folks think about that. Well, I thought we kind of had that list So I thought I mean at one point I thought we'd all just submit it and then we could Have spread you with them all lined up and you'd see which ones had the most votes and have a conversation around if that Well, we got that's like on the list of what 50 or more Yeah, it was about that many but I think I'm sure but Eventually we're going to get to looking at that list as well, but I wonder if we can come up with something Like for three or four that we can agree upon before we get to that point If you've got any way left after that I didn't think it was quite that bad when you kind of at one point we talked about sort of grouping Like the conservation commission had seven ideas. Some of them were like $5,000, you know, just like kind of group that into a conservation commission You got you'll we'll give you You know, you're asking for whatever and we're going to give you 50,000 you guys figure it out That that kind of thing kind of I thought what I said to email around Just expressing my thoughts on it Thank you. Nobody has heard so we all within compliance um But I thought there was probably only maybe 20 that were decision points when you kind of group some of them like that which was But I probably had 12 on the list. I mean it's a million bucks. It's it's a real money Other thoughts on terry's proposal It wouldn't it wouldn't be enforceable like a homework assignment Might be a good idea to give it some thought at least before the meeting What I'll do too is uh, I'll update that let's we have some more conversations the last couple of months since we looked at it For example the culverts on uh, Talcott road. I just got some information Bruce and his department some numbers last week That's probably a 1.7 million dollar project. Um, what they put together. I'll get this all in report format Will you pull all of the I mean Not a huge deal, but will you pull all the things that we've already voted? Um, So if I'm through or just it'll clean it up a little bit and it won't look quite as daunting Sure. Yeah, we can uh surely have the list going so we can update that file surely out the I'll talk to surely too to get an updated number because part of it was allocating alpha and the operating budget the last couple of years and then the f y 22 operating budget we had $300,000 that we didn't end up needing to use so as we wrap up the f y 23 numbers all Let's see where you're taking everything to use it No, so there's an extra 150 right there We'll update that that bottom line But but to terry's point it'll be awkward for us. I'll be sitting around going Oh What about I mean, I don't know how I don't know how to have this conversation if we don't at least Have something starting point so I'd be happy if I'd be happy to put something together so you start with it too well Sort of rate the projects With some kind of scale and then like you said gene the one that I don't want to say five and involving you say oh, this is the five They kind of end the discussion, right? Yeah, at least narrow it down to something I have You're not necessarily locking in to make all those decisions at this meeting too, but especially for infrastructure projects We're running against the timetable again March 19, so Yeah, I mean I would think I would love to be able to Not have to commit at all but have some buffer in case other things ran over or something else came up, but um We at least get down to here to this point saying we should move forward with these Are people comfortable if we take those? Commission or committee requests and putting them in one decision or I don't I just don't feel that I'm confident enough to say that the Trails people need signs, but they don't need a parking lot, you know, I definitely don't Or do we want them all separate No, I agree with you gene. Um, I mean I obviously I just think it um, you know, then It would need to be with the understanding that whatever project that they You know Decided to move forward with that they determined with that these are that money had to be Spent within the same time with you know the appropriate timeframe. Um But yeah, I mean I don't you know I I don't know what the priority is there. So I I agree with you There's just still all be listed there. So we remember what they were but I But that just makes a little Makes a little bit shorter. Like I said, I wouldn't know how to prioritize with it Especially like Bruce whore's public works department. Well, he sent something around with priorities. So I did have to go find that again I looked up eligible uses for ARPA funds, you know, that's what I did And I looked at what other towns have spent them on I think they're all I think they're all legit. I looked at Some of them were a little I was just worried about things like the the culvert if you could spend it commit it Yeah Yeah, the tricky part is I mean we probably have a little over a million left So you can say commit the rest of the culvert project. We need another Yeah, like five half a million dollars It's hard to even seed it because you're gonna run into Right, would it be helpful if you use this at the next meeting to answer kind of infrastructure Questions as you look at these or any other department heads you I think it's a little bit unfair to have Bruce here and not have the other committees here. So So no I mean, maybe as we go through if we get Something from surely so that we're trying to fill it out. We have questions You could we could tend to you know, that's all eight questions and see if we get it back, but I'll put everything I haven't but Okay, yeah, maybe if you could find uh bruce's memo with all this explanation of Priorities and send it around attach it again. That would be helpful. Yeah So that would if we're Set with that that would bring us to final thoughts on agenda from this meeting Are there any Hearing Gender thoughts on this meeting tonight, correct? Yeah Yeah Follow-ups If there are none We are adjourned