 We might be ready to roll. I think so, yeah. Let me introduce you. So hello, everyone. Welcome to Brothers from Time to Time with David Landau. A history of the Cuban Revolution with notes on its writing and publication and I hope a wonderful conversation. My name's Taryn Edwards and I am one of the librarians here at the Mechanics Institute of San Francisco. And I work closely with the San Francisco Writers Conference to provide programs for writers. And so that's what this event is all about. For those of you who are unfamiliar with Mechanics Institute, we are an independent membership organization that houses a wonderful library. We're the oldest in fact designed to serve the public here in California. We're also a cultural event center and a world renowned chess club. That is the oldest in the nation. So right now, due to the shelter in place, all of our activities are virtual, but I encourage you to consider becoming a member with us. It's only $120 a year. And with that, you help support our contribution to the literary and cultural world of the San Francisco Bay Area. So David Landau is our speaker today. He is a Mechanics member. I've personally known him for some 10 years. Just out of college, just out of Harvard, he wrote a path breaking book on Henry Kissinger. This was in the early, I won't say, but. 1972. Let's not be shy about it. And then in the early nineties, he wrote the first edition of the book that we're going to talk about today. Brothers from time to time. And a quarter century later, he decided to slim it down and make it leaner, make it tougher. And that's what we're going to talk about today. And publish it myself. Publish it with a partner, a real partner in Central America, who was quite crazy about the book. And I guess the choice for me was to, was to try again with the New York literary world. And I finally decided could be done better by us with all of our knowledge and all of our contacts and our interest. So. That's, that's, and by the way, the self publication is the thing curiously enough that allows me to share the, the PDF, the interior of the book, the text of the book with all of you. If I were publishing with one of the combines in New York, I'd be told no, no, you, you can't, you can't do that. But, or I might be told, I don't know, but, but in any case, this, this gives me a lot of a lot of latitude with the book. So. Really, since. Taryn. Oh, go ahead. I was just going to say. The way we should probably handle the questions is, since we do want this to be a conversation, but there's so many of you. Why don't you alert me in the chat space that you have a question and then when it is, when there's a break in David's talk, then we'll, we'll, we'll ask that question. You can ask him directly, but just let me know in the chat space. Yeah, actually, I think that thanks, Taryn. I think, I think the questions are the primary thing. That's, that's one of the, the nice. Features of, of having everybody. Or at least having given everybody a chance to look at the book. So there might be questions out there and I, I tend to think that your questions and my answers are a better way to do this than for me to talk and tell you what I think is important in the book, which I might not have anything at all to do with your, with your reading. So I am, I am prepared also to do that. So, so I want to be responsive to the interests and the concerns in this group. So let's, let's just say that, that we are open for questions at, at any time. And I can, I can fill the space in between the questions with what I say. So this, this book is really the culmination of a, a 30 year effort, more than 30 years in, it was in 1989 in, in Washington DC. That I first, that I met the, the characters in this book. And that, that was a gentleman by the name of Emilio Adolfo Rivera. In the book he is called Amy. And his younger brother is Adolfo. And I think what, what we immediately discovered in common was that we were ferocious nonconformists. And from very different backgrounds and very different parts of the, of the universe. In, in 1989, Amy Rivera had been living in Washington for 10 years. He was known in the circle I inhabited as quote unquote the ex political prisoner that, that was his moniker. And I thought that he was that really he had stepped from, from the pages of a Dostoevsky novel. He was, he was completely out of his native time and place. He was immediately distinct from others in the room. I was attending a kind of. Washington soiree sort of, you know, on the Bohemian side. And what, what Amy and the host had in common was that they had both been selected by some independent entity as two of the most intelligent people in the United States. They're, you know, there are these groupings and my, my friend, Andy Schmuckler, who is a philosopher and a writer introduced me to, to Emilio, or Amy. And I was immediately taken with him. And fortunately there was, there was chemistry there. He was, he was actually looking for a place to live at the time. And I was living by myself in a nine room house. It was, it was the house I had from, from a divorce. And anyway, he moved in, he moved in. And when he did the entire, his, his massive and compelling history moved in, into the house with him. A few months, no, not a few months, a few weeks, maybe a few days later, his brother, younger brother Adolfo, who had been, who had just left Cuba in 1989, 1988, I'm sorry, and had been accepted as, as an exile in France. He had been granted asylum by the French government, had been living in Paris for a year and came to, and came to Washington DC. And he took a, he took a room really very close to where, to where Amy and I were living. So I, I was, I was suddenly deeply immersed in, in their world, which was a fascinating world in a world. I had, I had no inkling of, I, I, I come from a very specific educational and social, designation. I, I am an Ivy League educated classical liberal who believes deeply, among other things, in the New York Times. And, and what, and the, the world view that the Times presents, the first thing, the first thing one reads in the morning is the New York Times. And I, in the, in the good old days or dolly old days of print newspapers, I used to have it two, two or three foot high. Tower of unread New York Times. Newspapers and I expected at some point I'd get through them. But anyway, the view of Cuba. And that history, which, which came to me live by virtue of these, of these two gentlemen was completely at variance with what I had learned at Harvard. And what I've read in the New York Times, this would be my, my entire, I think I was really changing politically anyway. In the late 80s, I was, I was a veteran of the student left and I was, I was then kind of more interested in what was called the New Age, human potential. And I really still consider myself a child of the, of the New Age. That's my, that would be my designation. If somebody says to me, well, what are your politics? I would, you know, the best, the best summary would be to say New Age. But this was a, this, this, this view of, it's not view of Cuba. I mean, these were, these were participants as well as observers in, in a very crucial history, which Americans did not understand at all the way they understood it. And I, they, they, their vision of the thing really supplanted quickly what I, what I knew or what I thought and, and what was all around me, Washington, 1989. So, so the book really grew out of my proximity, my closeness and my, my acquaintance with these, with these two gentlemen who then introduced me to a whole group of Cuban Americans or, or Cubans living, living in the United States. And I, I, I suddenly was, was, was in that and I was seeing, I was seeing my society from near a viewpoint rather than being somebody in this society and seeing, seeing these guys from, from that viewpoint. And the book, the book came out of that. And it was, it was really more than, than a sort of superficial exploration of historical and even personal issues. We really went quite deep. And I wanted, I wanted to make sure that I, that I, that I was getting what I felt was, was the real story. And that is not easy because these, these gentlemen had, had both been involved in, in really quite strenuous historical experience. They had both been in political prison. They had, they had been extensively interrogated by security officials of the Castro regime. And that's not a picnic, as you can imagine. At the same time, they, they really had their, they were above and beyond their experiences. And I was fascinated by how that had, that could happen. That was not, that was not a view of, of, of people in humanity that I, that I had been accustomed to having the view is we are, we are shaped by our experiences. We are marked by our experiences in, we are humbled by our experiences. We can be hindered or crippled by our experiences. These guys were just not like that at all. They stood on top of what they had lived. And that too was a, was a very fascinating thing for me. I would say crucial in a way in my own personal development. When I met them, I was in my late thirties. That's still an impressionable age. And I, I, I felt I was being mentored by the tremendous experiences that they had had and the, the way in which they had adapted to their realities and, and really finally stood above what had, what had been done to them. Cuba after, let's say 1952 is, it's one of the, it's one of the societies, one of the global societies. This has been tremendously shaken by revolution and political conflict. And their lives and their families lives took them straight through the center of that. So the book, I wrote, I wrote my book. I think I called it a case of two brothers. I don't even remember the title. And it didn't get published. Let's just say it that way. And I went on to do other things. I was, I was really caught after that by Cuba. I became shortly after that a publisher of books about Cuba and written one or in one case by me. And then that was not the, that was not the brother story that was a novel, which I decided to self publish. Again, having, having not, not really attracted the interest of New York publishers. And then, and then I published a load of, of, of other really wonderful books by Cuban American writers. Actually the only, the only writer in that group who was not Cuban American is, is one author who is, who is still in Cuba or at least still as last I knew he was, he was still living in Cuba. So it's a book, it's a book for Cuban, Cuban writers who are distant from their, from their homeland and still dealing with it. So I did that. The publisher was, the publishing enterprise was, was a critical success. I'm still working on making it financially successful. Anyway, that imprint is called pure play press. So pure play press is, is the publisher of record for this book. And I'm, I'm glad I have it in pure play press. So I think let, let me encourage the listeners here to, to ask any questions they, they might have about this book or what they're wondering about it or what they've encountered in it or what they would like to hear from me about it. Yeah, Barbara Massey has a question. Barbara, do you want to mute yourself and ask directly? I was, I read the book and enjoyed it very much, but I was wondering about the dialogues that seem very vivid in your book. And they're very compelling, but I was curious as I was reading it, are these like quotes of the conversations that you got from the brothers themselves or are these reimagined conversations? Well, the basis, the basis for almost everything in the book is what I heard or heard from the brothers or read of the brothers. The brothers actually wrote pieces of memoirs. They would, they would take a specific episode in their lives and write about them and much, much dialogue was included. And it's just, it's a, it's a subsidiary issue, but a lot of it in Spanish. So this is, this is also a linguistic translation on my part. I've, I've made, I've made the dialogue, I think maybe a little, a little, I don't know, I just, I wanted it to read well. I wanted to represent them as best I could. And they are tremendously talented writers, both of them, really strikingly good and with, with very clear memories. So the goal in this book was history and as, as close to the thing itself that I could possibly make it. But I do think that in imagination and truth are not, are not opposites. They are. I think in order, in order to see something accurately, you have to imagine it first. And so I was, I was fortunate to be able to imagine what, what, how these guys had lived and how their, their, their fellow Cubans had, had lived. What it was like in their society. And I, I had a fairly good idea about it. By the way, I'm, I'm one of the things about which I'm proudest is that the, we do, we do have people who, who lived very close to these characters. For example, in this, in this very meeting, we have, we have Irma Alicia Price, who is, who has become a great friend of mine. She is the daughter of Amy Rivera. She was born, she was born in, in, you're born in Cuba, weren't you? 1958. And, and then she moved to the United States in 1961. It was actually, I don't want to get emotional about this. But at a certain point, when I was deciding to write the book and they, the brothers were deciding whether they really wanted me to write this book. Irma said to me, you are certainly the one to write this book. And that, that made a tremendous difference. So I, I'm, I'm pleased to have her companionship and support in this, in this project. There are a couple of other people who are, who are very, very close. Adolfo's son Alejandro, he might be here or might not. He told me he was, he was going to try to just stop in. So, hi Alejandro. Nice to see you. How are you? I'm great. I'm great. So, I'm not sure, I'm not sure how to request to say something here. I don't assume often. So I'm going to raise my hand just to just talk, please. From what Barbara had said as far as the dialogue in the book. And I also will get emotional reading the book and the translations. It's as if I can hear my father and my uncle speak. And I think David, you know, he says a lot of it, you know, he imagined of how it was. The truth is my uncle and my father repeated these stories all the time, shared stories all the time. He'd see us and say, did I ever tell you when, and he'd repeat the stories. And yes, they did their memoir. So I'm reading this book. And I think it's so accurate in the translation and in the words, so accurate. And I think Alejandro would agree with me. It's as if we can hear them speak. Thank you. I have a question. But first I want to say that I haven't read all of it yet, but I went to the back. I wanted to see the thing as a whole. So I love the index and I particularly love the ending of the epilogue. And that helped me when you talk about a life well lived and it's sort of this final gesture to the characters in this book. And I know it's a work of history, but I was thinking again about like, say, Frank Bedard, the poet who talks about the compassionate imagination. And I felt like this is a work of a scholarship, but also of a compassionate scholarship. And I don't mean that in a sentimental way, but you know, you speak earlier about how it changed you when you saw how they stood upon and above the circumstances of their lives. And I think that I'm about a third of the way through the book, but I think that that's evident from, you know, from the very, very beginning. I just think it's, it's a, I just love that about the book. That's what occurred to me this morning when I was thinking about it. That's what I really, really love is that operation of a compassionate intellect and a compassionate imagination and a compassionate memory and a compassionate rigor. I think that's a wonderful combination. My question is a little different. It's about form because I know that you have our playwright and I know that you really are very knowledgeable about music, particularly I know of your love and interest in classical music. So I was wondering, even though the primary characters were very verbal and wrote and, and, and you, and all of that, and you have your literary skills, was there ever a time when you, when you decided this is going, what I'm going to do is going to be a book? Did you ever consider before that, or since then, it might also be, you know, a play. I mean, you know, you're, you're one of the few writers I know who work in several art forms. So I was thinking about you as a playwright, as I was reading this also, partly because it's very dialogue heavy and wonderful that way and partly because I know you have a passion for theater and, you know, and, and you could go both ways or, or, you know, so I just wondered, was it always a literary form that you envisioned from the beginning that when you would do something and did that stay true for 30 years? Or did you kind of wonder, oh, maybe it would be interesting as a libretto, you know, for an opera or maybe it would be... Not everybody, not everybody can ask those questions, you know, I can't, but you can. Well, you can ask a lot. Mary, Mary Raco is a great friend and a wonderful novelist and superb at what she does. So I'm thrilled and awed to have her interest. Yeah, the answer, the short answer is yes. I mean, when I, when I started working on this book, you know, in my tender, you know, 19... tender 30s in 1989, I, I didn't have the, I didn't have the scope that I, that I'm, that you're attributing to me now or crediting to me now. I'd never written to play. Actually, it was my experience as a publisher. This was, this was really fascinating and this is a side note, but if you ever want to, you know, develop yourself and deepen yourself as a writer, work with other writers and help those people do what they want to do. It doesn't take you away from your own craft or it does, you know, in terms of the hours and the dedication, but working with other people on their stuff gave me incredible scope. And one of the things that, that really was formative was, was translating a, a, a cycle of sonnets by Nestor Diaz de Villegas, a really wonderful Cuban writer and poet. And I, I, I translated his, a cycle of sonnets about the Marquis de Saade. And it was, it was, it was really, that was a wild experience. And, and I was, you know, I was quite closely questioned by people who love Nestor's work and, you know, how was, how was I going to be able to do this? It's a, it's a kind of question that comes up in literary things. So how, what qualifies you to do, to undertake? And my answer to that, my answer to that was to say, well, I don't really know what, what qualifies me to do this. Maybe I'm the only one who is dumb enough to be that intrepid to do it. But anyway, that was, that was a great, that was a great experience because after translating Nestor's poems, I realized I could, I could translate anything from Spanish to, to, to English. And actually another, another participant in this meeting is a, is a wonderful Spanish language writer. Actually she writes in two languages, Teresa Dova Page. I'm, I'm delighted to see Teresa here today. And Teresa's, Teresa's, I published, I think Teresa's first Spanish language book. The first of her Spanish language books to be presented to an American audience. I, I published that, that book in pure Pledge Press. The book is called Posesas de la Havana, which, which I translate as haunted ladies of Havana. And I, I, I mean to translate that book into, into English. I, I am, I'm, that might be one of my next projects. But, but anyway, as far as brothers is concerned, I'm now looking at it in with, with many different possibilities. And one of them is the graphic novel, which takes me actually very close to, to, to screenwriting or playwriting. And it changes the whole, it changes the whole thing. When you, when you, when you write in different forms, you don't simply try to replicate what you know, what one form has. The whole thing, it's, it's another way of looking at this story. My, my great friend, Amy Divero, told me one time, David, you don't need, once you have Cuba, you don't need anything else. That was, that was a very optimistic statement. What he meant to say was, and he was, the thing about Amy Divero is that he, he, having spent 18 and a half years in prison, he became one of the world's great readers and connoisseurs of literature. He read everything that he could, that he could get his hands on. And when he, when he commented about, about my work, I knew I was, I was, I was hearing from a master reader. And when he, when he said, when he made the comment about, about you know, with Cuba, you have, you have everything. I, I really like that. Speaking of reading, David, Emily was wondering if you would read a few passages that especially resonate with you. Okay, let me, let me look for something short. Hi, Emily. I have one that, that, that might be very interesting in terms of the political. Well, let me, let me do this. This is, this is better. I think one of the, one of the things that I really want to see people paying attention to in this, in this book is the story of the first Cuban human rights movement, which was in a way co-invented by Adolfo Rivera, Amy's brother. And Adolfo developed a relationship with a gentleman called Ricardo Bofil. And the experience that they had in common was that they were members of the Communist Party who had become, who had had differences with, with Fidel Castro. And they felt because they were loyal members of the regime, they, they should be allowed to say what they thought. It was only natural for them. They were, they were, they were, they saw themselves as free men. The, the, the commandante, the, the Fidel Castro didn't see it, didn't see it that way. No. That was not his idea. So Adolfo and Ricardo Bofil were in prison in 1980. And this is a, this is a dialogue between Adolfo and Ricardo. Ricardo says, I have something that can turn the entire situation around in Cuba. And Adolfo had his, you know, he was, he was ready to, to, to absorb this. And he was looking at it, you know, still as a, as a traditional communist intellectual and ideologue. And so this, this, this conversation takes place in prison in 1980. Country is going through a very strenuous period. There's a lot of emigration to the United States. This is the time of the so-called Marielle boat lift where 130,000 Cubans over the course of a few months just ran from the, ran from the island. And Adolfo, Adolfo was basically arrested because Fidel did not want him, Adolfo to leave, did not want him to go out with the other, with the other people. And there were lots and lots of people leaving at the time. So Adolfo was arrested to keep him in Cuba because Fidel did not want his political enemies to go outside of Cuba and talk about what happened, what was happening in Cuba and both of you, the same thing. There are political prisoners in this enormous prison called Combinado del Este and all around them, common criminals, everything from juvenile delinquents to thieves, to rapists and killers are being taken out of their prison cells by the regime and put on boats to go to the United States. But Adolfo and Ricardo have to sit in prison and watch this happen. So Combinado. Adolfo started to visit Bofil in the other man's prison quarters. Bofil happened to live in a cell more private than a Galera, a room with about 50 prisoners living in it. His fellow activist Elizondo Sanchez and Enrique Hernandez also lived close by so Bofils was an ideal meeting place. Tell me about your group, Adolfo asked Bofil. You say you have everything organized. What's your program? What's your ideology? What's your strategy? Bofil, we have none of that. Everything is above board. Nothing is hidden. We don't conspire. Adolfo, but that's fatal. How do you manage without those things? Bofil, the question is, how would I manage with those things? Fidel has defeated every program, every ideology, every strategy, every conspiracy that goes against him. The way to beat him is to stand up and refuse to take shit while giving him nothing to attack. Adolfo, and how do you do that? Look, this government can do anything it wants. You know it and I know it, but the government can't say it does anything at once. It has to pretend people have some rights. They have to obey the Constitution. I know the Constitution is crap. Everybody knows it's crap, but the Constitution is important because it gives you a space in which to work. It's a tiny space, a tiny, tiny space, a minimum space, but you can work with it. Adolfo, no, Bofil continues. So when the government is screwing over some guys, we just tell the government, look, you can't screw over those guys. The law doesn't allow you and guess what? It's true. They can't tell you to shut up because that would be forbidding you to speak. The government never admits to taking away your right to speak. The most they ever do is intimidate you from using your right. They can't accuse you of ideological deviation because you're using the law, which is their fucking ideology. Okay, they can throw you in jail, but sooner or later they have to let you out. Their best tactic is to ignore you. If your boss ignores you, you write a letter to his boss. Pretty soon you are writing to the national bosses, then to the bosses of international communism. Finally, when nothing else works, you write to the international human rights organizations. You are making all this noise and Fidel doesn't have a goddamn fucking thing to say about it. Adolfo. You mean that's all there is to it? Telling them they can't screw over so-and-so? That's the big idea they're so afraid of? Bofiou. That's it. Adolfo. But you've got to have a program. How else do you expect to win people to your ideas? Ricardo. The basic idea is not to take shit from sons of whores. It might not sound like a big idea, but actually it is. Everyone has this idea deep inside, so we're going to demonstrate it and hold open the door for other people to join. Adolfo. How many are you? Ricardo. Let's see. Edisardo Enrique myself. Right now it's the three of us. Adolfo. You are three? That's what you mean by having things organized? Ricardo. How many people did Fidel have when he started out in the Sierra? 20? 10? Five? Adolfo. On that point, you are absolutely correct, Ricardo. The point is not how many you have, but how many you might have. It begins from one. From one you get three or four. Three or four people who put their minds to it can change the country. Adolfo. What about your strategy? Ricardo, our strategy is to have no strategy. That way no one can figure out our next move. Many times I don't even know what I'm going to do before I do it. Of course that means security doesn't know either. And they can't use their methods against me. How curious Adolfo thought dismissively. But then as he reflected on the beating of the boat kids, Adolfo's idea took hold of him. Adolfo became a regular visitor to both feel, fell for the first time in years. He had a new excitement for what he loved best. Instead of wearing widows black for the socialist idea, Adolfo could take the part of actual people whom the system had mistreated. Both feel with lines of information everywhere, had bags of stories about guys who had been beaten up. Adolfo, those stories were the limit. After his personal downfall, Adolfo had insisted in letters to his parents. Yes, but we'll go to prison here because they have acted against the state. The authorities mistreat no one. Beatings are unheard of. And now every day. Both feel had stories of new beatings. That's, that's, that's what I like. So. More, more questions. Well, sure. Nobody else. Yeah. Right ahead. So that's Mike Larson, who was the, the, the, the head of the inventor and the head of the San Francisco writers conference for a long time. But so. David, what perspective would you like to have the people here to have. What would you like to know about Cuba, about Fidel and about his role in the world? What's, what's the, you know, what's, what's your overall perspective now, based on everything you know? What would you want? What do you want people to think about it? And there's a follow up question if you get through that, but that's not a small one. Cuba, Fidel and, and its role in the world. What I, what I really would like, thank you. What I really would. I'm, I'm just. Fiddling with this, this. Headphone. What I really would like actually is, is for people to pay more attention. To Cuba and to what, and also to the, to countries in Central America and which I, which I've done a lot of things. I, I, I kind of take, Ricardo Bofield's idea about this after a long. Period of, you know, having political viewpoints and. Arguing and discussing with people, I think I, I want people, I just want people to, to, to be interested and to draw the conclusions that they can, that they can draw. But, but it's, that's not a small thing because we have, you know, in, in, in this country, it's a kind of, there is a kind of, how shall I say, maybe it's a myopia, a short-sightedness in difference to the countries with whom we share the, the, the hemisphere. And I want, I want Americans to know more about these societies. The more I hear about immigration crisis and, you know, all of the, all of the, all of the short phrases that are, you know, the violence, the poverty, the corruption. I, I want people involved. I want, I want them interested. I've, I've been very richly rewarded by my own involvement in these countries, Cuba and Guatemala, especially. And by the way, I was led, led to Guatemala by, by Amy Rivera, who, who, who got me involved in, in some political process there. And it's, it's, it's fantastic. I mean, to know what, what I know, I feel I've been, you know, I've been richly, richly rewarded for the, for the, you know, the time and, and difficulty that I've had in, in acquiring this knowledge. This is, these are great countries and these are great people. And it's, it's, they should, they should be closer to us. They should be better known. How could the new administration make things better between the United States and Cuba? 50 words or less, please. By looking, by looking at the thing a little more carefully than, than they already have. I think that, I think that whatever administration comes to power. In the United States is, is, looks at, looks at this, looks at these issues in a kind of careless way, or in a way that is politically expedient. And I, I, I am hoping against hope that, that they will, will be thoughtful. David, we have a question by Sheila. Okay. Sheila, do you want to turn your mic on? Hi there. I have several questions actually. I was taken by the idea also, which was brought up earlier that this could be theater. Because. You know, five minutes into reading it, there was a large amount of dialogue, which went back and forth and back and forth. And I visualized it on a stage. David, we have a question by Sheila. And I visualized it on a stage. Not necessarily in reality, but on a stage. That's just a comment, but I was wondering if you're familiar with a movie called Uli. Why you li. No, tell me about it. It's a. It's about his last name is a costa. I think it's Carlos. He's actually a ballet dancer from Cuba. He ended up in Britain. But the part of that movie that grabbed me mostly was talking about how. After Castro came to power, that there was. An attempt to build an art center. But they had no money. And I believe to this day that. Because the Soviets wouldn't fund that. They would fund other things, but they wouldn't fund the art center. And so. The Golden's are still there as hollow shells. I don't know if they're being put to any use now or not, but. I kind of saw that as a. Maybe a metaphor for the revolution. But it's a movie that I would recommend to everybody. It may be available at the moment on Netflix. Rather recent. But it's not only about being a dancer, but it's also about politics and. And the third thing I was going to go off on about was. The need for us to not have linguistic blinders on all the time. And I think that. We need to in this country, we need to really. Address issues in our educational system, which. Still thinks primarily. In English and only thinks as. By a lingual education as kind of an add on. Whereas in reality, it's a way to open up the way you think about the world. So. That's enough for now. That would be a, that would be great. A great thing. You know, to, to. To communicate in languages there. Yeah, there, I, I think. I think that. That we don't, we don't do enough in foreign languages. Americans do not. Given given that English is a kind of lingua franca and has been for a long time. We've been spoiled. Many other people around the world speak to us in our language. And we should be, we should be doing a little more speaking to them in theirs. I agree. David, would you like to discuss the, the photographs? Let's, let's look at. Let's look, let's look at the photographs of. Okay. Now we've got, now we've got, we've got all of them here. Right. Well, this is, this is, this is, this is. I start this way. Let me start with this. This is, this is the back cover of the forthcoming Spanish edition. And I'm just, I'm, I'm, I just love that. I love the collage. It just, it was created by a book, a really good book designer who was, who was working with me. And the, the portrait in the center is. It's obviously a drawing of Amy. And I think that as a prisoner, this, this, and this was done by a fellow prisoner. And I don't have any idea who actually did it. And Amy and I also are, are gone. They, they can't speak for themselves anymore. I'm hoping that whoever, whoever did that drawing will come forward and identify. Himself or herself. Probably himself. And it seems to have been a work created in, in prison or during prison, maybe after, but with the memory very strong. And this, this really captures for me the essence of the, of the man and, and what he lives. Going from the, the lower left. These are mom and dad. They're in Miami. And they're, they're, they're just, you know, I, I, I simply. Adore the, the, the portrait. Right above them is, is a photo of Adolfo in. I would say 1962. He's wearing the, the fashionable. All of green. Yeah. Outfit. This is a heyday of Adolfo's communist period. Right above Adolfo is a, a, a single column with a headline from the New York times. This is a, this is a notable headline from, from the date of, the date of the article is January 3rd, 1999. At the time, the New York times was, was really the, you know, a strong proponent of the Castro regime and remain so. For many decades and, and in a way still is. But every 10 years, the times celebrated the, the birth of the Castro regime with some kind of commemorative article or articles in 1999, there were two of them. And this one. Castro talk shows him still a rebel. And profit. Okay. So this is how the times is seen. A 40 year old. Absolutist regime. And, you know, the question, question in my mind. You know, can he be a profit? Sure. But can he be a rebel after, after being head of the Cuban state for 40 years? This is very typical of the New York times. Anyway. I wanted, I wanted that to be on that. On the cover. Going. Going clockwise. This, this is a, this is a. A Polaroid. Taken of the two brothers. Adolfo on the left. Amy on the right. May 1960. This is the height of their, of their conflict. And they are. They have met at the insistence of their parents who were already in the United States and called Amy and said, would you please. Locate your brother. We don't even know where he is. And have a meeting with him just to see that he's all right. So the two brothers. Meet in May 1960. They're, they're on their way to lunch in a Chinese restaurant. And just, you know, the occasional portrait. This is a, this is a great, a great portrait. Underneath that is my Koi way of. Demonstrating. What, what some very generous critic has said about this book. This is a review in the Washington times. And the headline is, is from September of this year. And rather than having, rather than having the quotes played across the back cover. I've just, I just take the headline and, and. You know, I asked the illustrator to include it in the collage. The, the last photo, which is beneath. Is a photo that I took in Havana in 2002. And I've also had given that the city of Havana. 22 years earlier. The title city on crutches. Because of the, because of the. The deteriorating state of Havana. And really the, the. The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the deteriorating state of Havana. And really the, the, the. The very superficial. Measures which had been taken to keep buildings propped up. So these are. These are, are wood, wooden supports. And this is the, the model icon of Havana. So this is not a side street. This is the main. Avenue and one of Havana's most famous streets. And it's, it would be like, it would be like, well, what would be the equivalent in. I always like to compare to New York, being a New Yorker. This, the model icon is, is as famous as fifth avenue or Madison Avenue. This is one of the great streets of the city. And to have that there is, is a, it illustrates something. So anyway, that's the back cover. And this is from the last edition of the Spanish, of the fourth, forthcoming Spanish edition. This is a portrait of Amy. In 1961. And the occasion is. 3rd birthday. Three years old. On the, on the left. And her brother, Ruben. in early 1961. Let's see the next one. This is great. This is Irma Alicia, a 20-year-old young lady, meeting her dad at Miami International Airport when he arrives. This is the first time she's seeing him since the occasion in the earlier photograph. You see she's pointing with her right forefinger, and whom she's pointing to is her brother Ruben, who's taking the picture. This is sheer joy captured in the camera's lens. Now this is Alejandro with his dad Adolfo. Alejandro might be seven, eight years old, playing chess obviously, Adolfo. This would be in the late 1970s in Havana. I see that newspaper Le Monde, this is from the days of print newspapers. There were two things that just swept Adolfo up in his life. The first, his love of politics and the whole game of politics, and the second was the tremendous love that he had for his son. Okay, let's go to the next. Now this reflects Adolfo's love of politics. The person on the left with the hand raised and the beer bottle in the other hand. This is Ricardo Bofil, the creator of the Cuban human rights movement. I took this photo in Adolfo's apartment in Miami, 1990s, maybe 1992. And Adolfo is just, I don't know how thoroughly you can see him, but he's absolutely, this is another expression of sheer joy. The joy of plotting, of conspiring, of brainstorming, whatever you want to call it. This is the way I'll always see these two gentlemen. Okay, let's go to the next one. My favorite headline from the New York Times, January 2, 1999. In City of Castro's Triumph, Most Still Back Him. Okay, well, you know, there's a lot that you can say about this. I won't say it, but anyway, I'll let it speak for itself. Okay, and then this is this, this is the image that you've already seen on the back cover of the book. I just, I just like to know how our great journalistic brains are covering these important historical phenomena. So you, you see it for yourself. All right, we have a question from Zara, and then that should probably be one of our last questions. She asks, what is the impact of the brothers on your liberalism? And do you still read the New York Times the same way that you did when you met them? No, well, probably not. I would like to say for the record, and if anybody asks, I subscribe to the New York Times. I mean, commercially I subscribe to it, intellectually I really don't, but I get the New York Times every day. And, you know, you can take the times away from the boy, but you can't, I don't know. I blew that one, but I think you knew where I was going. The Times is in my bloodstream, but I also get it, really it's opportunistic. I'd like to know, it's, it is, it has been for a long time, for 450 years, the paper of record. And for most of that time, it was fairly faithful to that mission. So the Times and its reporters have been witnesses to history, whether they've been flawed witnesses or good witnesses, it doesn't matter, but they've, you know, it's a viewpoint. Same with the Post, Washington Post. But no, everything comes to me. I look at what's presented on, when it's presented and, you know, nothing really else to say. I appreciate the wit behind the question. Does anyone have any other questions that they'd like to pose directly to David? I looked at the website of the press last night, and to see what else you guys have been publishing and stuff like that. And there was a sense that the possibility of expanding, and I didn't know, just writers that I know that are working on manuscripts, I wondered how it was going to go. And after this conversation, I hope that by expanding, you mean maybe looking at Cuba from other angles, like just from the arts, like about this dancer or something like that. I mean, it's because you talk so passionately about us in the United States being more informed about Cuba, Guatemala, you know, the other people with whom we share this hemisphere. So I just wondered what the vision, you know, kind of what you, besides the upcoming Spanish translation of this book, you know, what is a vision that you and your colleagues at the press are sort of thinking about? It's a weird time in publishing, but I think it's probably always a weird time in publishing. So, you know, I wouldn't expect that would stop you and kind of just curious what you might be dreaming about, you know, for the press. I'd love to be able to be a general publisher some time. I mean, my first focus was Cuba because that was what really impassioned me, shall we say. But I'm really open to anything having to do with culture, literature, history. It really all depends on what I can do and the economics and all of that. And I would love for pure play press at some point to be able to succeed commercially. And we'll, you know, that'll be a neat trick when we get it there. But really anything that I want to read, I'll assume other people will want to read it as well. So you're very open then. I mean, because there are others that are not going to measure their dreams in terms of commercial success. They want to be published by a publisher whose work they like and will help them get reviews and stuff like that. So it wouldn't have to be someone who is working in Cuba related material. No, not at all. Okay, I will keep that in mind for time. Yeah, and you know, Mike has something to say on this. I think it's going to be germane. Oh, well, no, I was just going to ask about what sources of news information, David, do you rely on do you recommend to people to get for reliable information about what's going on in the world? Are there? I think the best I think the best we can do any of us is to is to read everything we can and apply the best critical filters that we have to what we read. There's there's a lot of crap out there. Let me say that. I think we all know that. But but I find I mean, I have I have I have a weakness for Wikipedia, for example. Now that it's that that might seem kind of odd. But I think that that when you when you when you take your education, your critical faculties, and you apply them as best you can to whatever you see, that that's the best, the best nurse, best source of news is you yourself, really. And and and what you can find and how you can, how you can use it. Great answer. Well, are there any other questions? Because otherwise, I'd like to thank David for coming and really sort of rocking our world with this discussion about brothers from time to time. I would I would say, look, any anybody in please stay in touch with me, all of you. If you have a book project you want to discuss, I'm, you know, I can help with that. But but anyway, I, you know, I love you all and please stay in touch. And thank you for coming. Do you mind if I put your email address in the chat space? You've been hand you've been emailing all our guests already. But just to remind people. Please do. Yeah, if you don't, if you'd like a copy of the book, you can email David directly, I'm going to put that in the chat space right now and he'll send you the PDF. But it's pure played at live.com. That's it. Yeah, I suspect everybody has the PDF already. But but if you don't, let me know and I'll send it in, you know, 10 seconds. All right, well, I want to thank you all for coming. Stay warm and stay healthy this holiday season. And thank you, David, for your your candid talk today. Well, thanks to all of you. And I really, really appreciate it. You know, we are, we are only as good as the people with whom we're communicating. So I feel, I feel very blessed in having you all. Thank you. Likewise. Have a great weekend everyone and thanks for turning out today. Bye bye. Bye bye.