 Good day and welcome back to the 4D Audi podcast with your host, as always, Mr Thomas Henley, and I have a very, very special episode for you, and although I say that every single episode is special because it is in its own unique way, today I'm actually interviewing four people as opposed to one person. So as I said to the New York Divergent crew who I'm going to be interviewing today, this is going to be a learning experience for me, and I imagine that there's going to be a lot of editing involved. So the topic of today's interview is neurodiversity and creativity. And I have done an episode in the past which was all about autism and creativity, but we're going to go a little bit broader, we're going to talk about different things related to ADHD and autism and other types of neurodiversities. So today I'm joined by, again, four people. We have 12 gauge, do you want to say hi? Hello, it's me, 12 gauge. FMA. Hello, I'm FMA. And Dreadnought. How did we doodly? And of course, no tricks. We have been trying to organise this podcast behind the scenes without a few chats, and it's been really great in pulling everyone together. So thank you very much. How are you doing today? Hi. Yeah. Thank you for having us. It's a great pleasure and a great opportunity to share our stories with you and the rest of the world today. Thank you. Brilliant. Brilliant. I love the mask. So I guess it would be good for us to go through a little bit about what you guys are, what you do. I know that you're called the neurodivergent crew and I know that you do a lot of stuff around music. FMA, would you be able to give us the low down on what you guys are about? Well, I didn't expect you to ask me about Thomas. Sorry. I'm a little... Oh, sorry. Yeah. I was going to say that. It's cool. It's cool. Well, we are a group of artists who all have different forms of neurodiversity, and we're all like spread out, spread out all over the place. And then as our journeys have progressed, we've all found each other and found that we offer things to the collective that each other was missing. So originally it was kind of either just me or Callum to Starks. Callum's my son. Twelfth Gauge is my son. I'm his dad. And I'd given up on music and I was just focusing on script writing. And my son, Twelfth Gauge, when he came to live with me, he was writing and writing and writing and he pulled me into it again. So then me and Twelfth Gauge started performing and doing all sorts, but then we needed someone to make music for us and we were really struggling with that, which is where Dreadnaught suddenly came in and he appeared and he was like, he fit perfectly and he could do everything that we needed him to do. And then we kept going and we kept going and everything was struggling. We still struggled quite a lot, but then no tricks appeared out of nowhere. And it was like this final piece of a puzzle that suddenly came in because we're all extremely good at different aspects of things, but we're all missing like everybody without each other. We wouldn't be, it's like that thing that you say it's like it's the sum of its parts. It's like more than what we are individually all together with just something more. So that's like the basic idea of how we started working together, but like since starting to work together, it's like it started to get more cohesive and it's like we actually have a message and we encourage people to create and we want to spread like our message of neurodiversity across the world because it's easy when you sat in your flat like me to think, oh yeah, the whole world accepts autistic people and stuff, but then you only need to walk out your door to realize it's not quite that. And like the same with Dreadnaught and ADHD and 12 gauge and dyslexia and no tricks with the ID. It's like the world is not built for people like us. The world is built for a very specific sort of person. So like, yeah, that's that's where we're up to with our journey and it's like, that's our goal. Well, thank you very much. I think it's interesting when we think about neurodiversity because in my mind, it's kind of like having like a different specialized human like where we tend to be good in some areas, but we tend to fall down in other areas. You know, especially for me, like I would never be able to, you know, work without the support of like, even my neurotypical supporters, particularly at work, because they're they're a lot better at kind of managing the executive functioning side of things. And I'm not I'm like pants and all of that. So I think it's really, really, really interesting that you guys have all come together with different kind of different skill sets and sort of pulling up each other's deficits and stuff. That's really cool. It is really cool. I guess I want to ask you in 12 gauge FMA and 12 gauge about your relationship with with music and learn a bit more about, you know, your story, what kind of music you make, what kind of things you've done. Yeah, well, it all begins with 12 gauge, 12 gauge. Yo, yeah. So it kind of started with music for us. Well, for me was when I watched my dad perform with his metal band for my anger when I was like five or six. And they played at the park just near this flat where we sat right now. And he was on stage to a bit of metal. Oh, yeah. And he was on stage and he was screaming at the crowd. And like it was with his band and like this six year old kid who'd like been bullied and like had tons of like horrible influences at that time that like frightened me. Seeing this person stood on stage just screaming at the crowd. I instantly knew I wanted to be on that stage. I just didn't know how. And then as time went on, kind of, I loved metal and I'd listened to metal and dad would play me like Slipknot and Onyx and stuff like that. And then I remember I was in the car with him and he played Eminem Relapse and he played that for me. And that was like the moment it all like flipped in my head and it just switched on and it was like, oh, I could do that. And then I started writing and I kept writing and then eventually I came and lived with FMA and I essentially just kept on annoying him really because he was trying to do his stuff. He was doing his screenwriting at uni and all that stuff. And I'd come in every day and I'd be like, oh, dad, I've just wrote this. Dad, I found this beat. Dad, I've done this. Dad, dad, dad. Until the point where he, my mom said she was organizing this anti-racism gig and she said that it'd be a really good point for me to perform and develop my confidence and actually perform and it'd be really good if I performed with FMA and stuff. And then we did that gig and it went better than I think either of us could have expected it to because people were coming into the room that we were performing and they were jumping around and there was movement and energy and everything, all this stuff. And then I'm just stood there, this like 15 year old just like, whoa. You were 15? Yeah. Yeah. The first gig I did, I was 15. I struggled to even talk like talk in front of like one person when I was 15. Oh, I was the same. Yeah, Callum did. Callum had a stutter when we started, which is why it is my master's to do that. He had real issues with confidence. Yeah. Yeah. And then since then it kind of, one thing that my dad FMA kept doing was he kept saying, this is the last thing. So we did that first gig when I was 15 and he was like, oh yeah, okay, okay, we'll do one more, but then I'm done. That's it. This is over. And then I'm like, okay, cool. And then after that next gig, he'd be like, okay, one more, one more gig. And then that turned into, you know, oh yeah, we should record an EP, but then it's done. But then it's over. And then it turned into two EPs and then an album. And now we're working on a second album. And we've been going, will it be this November, but it's been 10 years? We've been doing it. Yeah. So 10 years this November. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. And what is it like, from your side, like FMA, like seeing your son kind of go out there at 15 years old and performing in front of a crowd, like that must inspire some something inside you. Well, I'll give you, I'll let you in on a secret. You can have like a, like, I can't think of a word for it now, but exclusive you got, I'll give you exclusive information here for it hit me. I was always like, I used to be the metal band that 12 gauge mentioned called for my anger, but was another singer within that who always took the lead. And he was always so much better than me at talking to the crowd and like doing everything. And it was just like, it was like, I was always like tick and I was always at the back. But the second I stepped up on stage with 12 gauge, by my side, I had more strength and more confidence on that stage. And I ever have before, because if there's one thing a parent learns, it's like, you can't ever be weak in front of your children, you have to, you have to be the strong one, you have to show them how this world works. And so having Callum, like 12 gauge, I keep calling him by his real name, having 12 gauge by my side was like my hack into the thing. And it allowed me to approach the audience in ways that I never would have done before. And now I'm cool without 12 gauge by my side, I'd still have that same confidence, but 12 gauge allowed me to learn to be the best version of me on the stage. Because yeah, that was just one thing. If you get on the stage with someone who you want to impress and you're not going to let down and you want to show them the best you, then there's no way that you're going to fail. So that's my little hack for everyone who wants to perform. You need to find back one thing that will make you push no matter what. Thank you. So I guess just like following your sort of dialogue about how you picked up the rest of the neurodivergent crew, I guess Dreadnought, would you like to tell us a little bit more about your story? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so I guess following on from the story from there, picking up, like you said, from the thread, I came in, it was after F main 12 gauge had done the first two EPs. And they basically wanted to redo these songs to a standard which they had like the vision of their own music and everything. And at the time I was producing and I was a drummer actually originally, that was kind of my main call that first music wise. It was drums more than anything else. You must have very good cardio then. Well, debatable. But yeah. So yeah, it was that for a while. But I'd always come to Callum like because we both went to the same college and showing like beats and things I made just like in my spare time, just when I go on my break, if I was on breaks and nobody else was on, I just go down and be like a little hermit in the studio. And they were never like mind blowing. But Callum always kind of like poked me to go a bit further away. And he's like, you think he could see the potential. And then I'd show him like these lyrics that I'd written for these beats being like, yeah, if you want them, you can have them. And of course, like me not really understanding the pride of a rapper being like, I can make those lyrics. But he was very much like, you should give it a go. But I hit things like I hit things really fast and loud. I don't know if I can do that. But he kept at me. He kept me motivated. And then some time passed him before. Yeah, yeah, I did. That was a college that though, but I did go to uni for a bit after I did media at uni and then still spent most of the time in the music studio instead. So I think it was that was that was the true call in there the whole time. But yeah, no. Next thing I know, me and Callum had started a band as well. We were both wearing masks on stage, shouting at people, thinking we were the hardest band since something really, really heavy in certain metaphor here. You know, and we weren't, but we had the passion and the belief and that's what really carried it, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then I then I met FMA. He brought me and he was like, you're going to meet my dad. And I was like, I'm going to meet your dad. Yeah, you're going to meet my dad. Okay. So I'd like some prep for that. And I knew it was about like music and stuff. I didn't know what specifically it was originally going to produce like one or two tracks for them before we know it. It's an album later and here we are in the second album. So yeah, it was a one heck of a journey. I really on a separate note, I really like your hat. Thank you. It's very much my aesthetic. It seems like have you ever heard of a band called Diant Bird? Diant Bird, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very like the whole like Zef style. Zef is it, is it like Zef? Poor people, but rich kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. I love that kind of style. I'd like some little rings on it and stuff, but they were a bit too big. So I was like, that's probably going a bit too far. Yeah, jangling about. Yeah. Well, I guess it's a good opportunity to move on to no tricks. Would you like to give us a little bit below down how you met the guys and what kind of music you make? Well, I don't even know where to start. I am a very fresh person in this whole music world because of my DAD, which made me basically live two lives in a short span of time, which is my life. And two years ago, I started making music as a producer and decided that I just cannot live any other way. And one year ago, I started the no tricks project, which was from the very start about not only music, but also about mental health, because that's the very reason that I'm here. If it weren't for my mental health, I might have been one person instead of two. And then maybe I wouldn't be doing music. But because of the split in my mind, this personality only does music. And so I started one year ago and straight away, I started sharing my story and everything that I could share about my mental health to make sure that I can motivate people to learn about things, to learn about themselves and not to make mistakes that I made in the past. And while I was expanding, I somehow ran into FMA, FMA plus 12 gauge Instagram account. And we kind of understood each other very well and started speaking about mental health and music. And here we are. I'm their mix and mastering engineer. And we are already doing lots of projects together, not only music, but also the visuals and everything. And then gradually with time, we realized that all four of us actually stand for something not only music wise, but also ideas wise, we share the same ethics. We share the same idea. Like all of us believe that an artist's responsibility is not to just use the talents they have just to make money and hang out exactly. But there is additional responsibility to pass on something to the world, to speak up and to share something that matters. So all of us actually believe in that. And then we also realized that it's such a wild mix that all four of us have four absolutely different diagnoses, which makes us like a truly unique mix, really suitable for a superhero movie. So basically, when it was started forming, and we realized that together, we are already doing more together. But like if we actually go on with our projects as a collective, that would mean a lot more. And it will also help us build on onto our agenda and our mission. So here we are. Brilliant. Thank you very much for that. So I guess why I want to ask about because we've kind of alluded that you guys are the neurodivergent crew, so you have different neurodiversities. I guess I want to know a bit more about each of your neurodiversities and considering that we talked to no tricks last, I think it would be really interesting to pick up on the stuff around DID because it's not something that a lot of people are aware of. And I think that there's also a lot of stigma around it. So it'd be really good to sort of understand a little bit more about it. Well, where do I start? Well, basically, it all started in my adolescent age when I had a traumatic experience. My father died and I couldn't cope with it at all. Because my family did not really appreciate me displaying any emotions. And I basically wasn't allowed to live through the things that I was experiencing. Anytime when I would mention that I might be depressed, I might need some assistance with that. And it was all brushed off and I was told that I'm making things up. And I couldn't understand what's going on, but I was gradually shoving all my emotions more and more into a separate place of my brain where I wouldn't have to live through them. I would just get rid of them. But that's not how it works. You kind of just throw stuff away out of your brain. It just doesn't work that way. Basically, it was then already where I already understood that something wrong is going on. And I started feeling that I'm not alone here. There's something going on all the time. I would just sometimes go from one part of the brain into another, if that makes sense. And I could feel that there is absolutely two... I actually thought there was more. But at that point, I felt that there's two people inside of me that don't share anything during the day, let's say, with the people I don't trust. I would be one person. And I would be basically like they expected me to be and what they wanted me to be. But at night, I would be another person and absolutely different. And because I was not allowed to be that person, that person was always there in the closet. And with time, at first, it was possible to organize it in a way where the person in the closet was just hiding there, just coming back sometimes whenever it was allowed to. But then two years ago, what happened and it is where my music story began, this person just sprung up and couldn't be handled anymore. It's actually me. My other self is still there. And now it's the reversal. Now she's trying to get back into the picture. And what happened there is basically... Well, I got diagnosed a year ago. And this is when finally things started making sense, because what happened two years ago was that when things started unraveling at very fast speed and they couldn't be controlled anymore. There were so many things that like really tragic things that happened where relationships were broken, lives were broken. So many things happened. I don't really share much about that because it's not my life. It's the life of... You don't need to... Thank you. It's the life of my other self. There were people involved who lost her as a person. Some of them actually admitted that that person died, even though she's still here. But I cannot allow her to get back into the picture because she lived her life for 10 years, not allowing me in. So now it's... We've agreed that this is my time. But basically there are two lives being lived within this body. And if years ago this was... This situation were handled the right way. If there were therapy, if my emotions were not disregarded, this wouldn't have happened. And again, I cannot really open up on everything that happened because it's my other self, other personality's life. I'm, as you can see, I'm wearing a mask and I don't disclose my name purely because I don't want anyone to know. Because she had a stellar career, a family, lots of friends, everyone who knew her. And all those people don't need to know what's happening to me right now. So basically all this could have been prevented with therapy. And which is why I feel the absolute need to share my story, to make sure that people know what that is like, and to make sure that that doesn't happen to someone they know and they love. Well, thank you for being so open and sharing that with me and us. I have to admit, I had a period of my life actually where I was contemplating whether I had DID. I was going through this very crazy time when you reach adolescence as an autistic person. Or as anyone really, it can be quite a hectic time. You don't really know what you feel about certain things. You don't know where to place yourself. You don't know who you are as an individual and you're trying to assert yourself as a new person. And one of the things that I always really struggled with is emotions. And I found it very sort of disassociating and almost existential, just how different I felt in different emotional states. Now that I'm an adult, I know that the things that I experienced was more along the lines of Alexifamia, the fact that I just couldn't actually put my finger on exactly how I was feeling. I just felt differently. So I was like, oh, I must be a different person. So I did a little bit of research into it, but I know that there has been a lot of stigma around it. And I can't imagine how that must feel for people such as yourself. I really appreciate you being open about this. Because the topic that we're talking about today is around sort of neurodiversity and creativity. I don't know whether it's my place to ask how the idea is sort of influential creativity or is that something that you feel able to talk about? Easy. It's actually, it's the very reason of my creativity. Because people ask me a lot, like, how do you find so much inspiration? Because I am just bursting with inspiration. I create things nonstop, like all the time. I don't even have to look for anything. Why? Because all those years where I was stuck in that closet, and I was just collecting all the negative material, the funny thing is that literally us too, exactly because of how the split happened and because of the particularities of why it happened. I was the one receiving all the negativity and I am the pessimistic one. She is optimistic, like the change when there was a switch between us, the most recent one. Everyone who knew her were astonished how everything changed in an instant. There's an absolutely different person. Because I got all the dark and negative stuff into me. But that is the reason why I could create so much. But everything I create comes from darkness. I tried many times to create something positive. Because I actually want to be nice to the world. I want to do good things. So I thought, why don't I create some nice tunes for people to chill to? It doesn't work. I can only create from all the dark experience that I had over the whole of my life. And all of this baggage has been within me and now it's bursting. So also I kind of feel that we have assigned parts of the brain that are assigned only to us. Because that personality didn't even listen to music. She couldn't create anything at all. She didn't draw. She didn't take pictures. She didn't do music not even close to that. Whereas I think we also are ambidextrous. Which means that, I'm sorry, that's my phone. I hope it doesn't bother you. It sounds like an ice cream truck. Yeah, that's the sound. For my speech. So it's basically that we're ambidextrous. I can ride with both hands. So she was a right-handed person. I'm not left-handed, but I can use both hands freely. Probably because my part of the brain is the right side of it. So basically I think this is also one of the things that apply to my creativity, but also to the mental condition. Thank you very much. I know that when we had our pre-chat, as I said, Mia Nertrix had our pre-chat for the neurodivergent crew together. And she sort of helped me get in contact and set things up and schedule things and get the questions out. Very much appreciated for that. But I know that the type of music that you create is dark trap. And dark trap is pretty much my number one listen to genre of music alongside like metal and rap, of course. So I was very pleasantly surprised about that. It's kind of crazy for me as a person because the way that I present through my personality and the things that I say, I come across as quite a sort of harmless kind of person. But I really love that kind of dark music and dark humor. And even when it comes to like combat sports and stuff, I find that I can get myself into like a different zone. Whenever I went to a competition to do some taekwondo, I was always very, very aggressive and very, very front foot and always pushing and pressure fighting and stuff. And it was very contrary to, I guess, how I am and what I put out there in the world. So I very much like that aspect of music, that sort of dark stuff. We really cannot wait for you to hear our track because that's exactly in that genre. And all four of us participated in it and it's dropping on January 26th. Brilliant. Well, we can definitely put that out as part of the song of the day. Usually we do this at the end, but I kind of add different songs that people either identify with or feel something from or really want to share with the world. So that would be the top song that I'm going to put on there. And yeah, thank you very much for that, Natrix. I guess the the next person that I want to talk to is Dreadnaught. And would you like to tell us a little bit about your neurodiversity and how that sort of influences your creativity? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So as we mentioned before, ADHD. To be honest, I mean, I was creative long before I even thought about ADHD, to be honest. It was only a few years ago that I actually got my diagnosis. I mean, like, there were like major obvious signs, which I was completely oblivious to. It tends to be that case. I was just like, I didn't really click until later until I started like looking into it and putting everything together. And I was like, it was basically like a tick box when I was looking through symptoms and stuff. I guess I should get this looked at by professional. But it was like, was there any like, ignition to you to doing that? Was there any reason why you started to look into it? Yeah, it was, I actually looked into it and got my diagnosis. My mental health in general was kind of deteriorating quite a bit at that point. I was struggling with quite a lot of stuff. I was like severely depressed, super anxious. And I wasn't myself, but I also kind of was aware of the person that I used to be and I strived to be better and there was that like hunger. So I was like, I need to get to the bottom of who I am. And everyone had like already like, I've already heard like years of jokes of like ADHD boy. I was like, yeah, maybe, maybe not. Who knows. But that was one of the first steps into it. And then it was more, I didn't want it treated. I just wanted to kind of be able to understand myself better. And that's one of the no way you are in life. And yeah, yeah, things that you're perhaps a bit better at and which areas you might need a bit of support with. Exactly. You know, when you understand, like in this case, when I understood ADHD better, I understood how it worked. I also was more open to speaking to other people with ADHD. Then like suddenly it was like, okay, I've got this, I can interact with these people and ask these questions, which relate to myself, which I otherwise might not have been able to like understand that I was actually on the same level as them, if that makes sense. So, yeah, it was, it was an eye opener and it definitely set me on a much better path. I like to think I'm pretty mentally healthy right now. You know, everyone has like the days where it doesn't feel like that and you feel like your backtrack, but it's so much easier to get back on top of stuff. And I think having that understanding was a massive thing. And then I look back at all my music and I'm like, oh, yeah, actually, like the signs were just right there. Besides like 150 BPM songs and stuff like that. But then it's just the mad things that I was trying as well. And I just thought I was just being a bit creative and odd, but it's like, I've been trying to do like hard style metal and like just merging like jazz with like, you just like all these mad combinations that I was just putting in, but then there'd be projects that were like a minute long. And I'm like, I'll come back to that. And my desktop was flooded with hundreds of projects, hundreds. Most of them were unfinished. The ones that were finished were, they were of different standards, but like they were ever growing. But the signs were always there, but that energy and that spontaneity, I think really, really helped from the production aspect. And it really helped me kind of find my own style along the way and try things that like, you know, I might not otherwise have come to my mind if I didn't have like these sporadic, like, give you an example, like, it's just a stupid idea. It's like a sampled and a cow in one of FMA and 12 gauges songs. I just, there was just a sample on the side on the list. I was like, you know what, it'd be really funny if I can work this in somehow. I put it through a thousand different plugins. It would sound like a cow at the end. But things like that was a really cool sound by the end of it. And I was like, yeah, the thought process that maybe I wouldn't have gone down where it went for ADHD. I had a podcast that came out a little bit more recently. I'm always a bit tentative around giving timeframe for stuff because the order in which I release things tend to be a bit like, all over the place, I don't want to release that one or this one or like, so sometimes they're not always like in order. And I was talking to a autistic rapper called SD Flame. And he also has ADHD and he was talking about sort of the benefits and difficulties when it came to doing his rap music, you know, like he's very high tempo and he's got, he's very, very like quick when he, when he's speaking, very sort of fast verbal. And so like a lot, a lot of the people like who come up in the rap and then trying to sort of develop their skills, they're actually taught to go faster, like they're taught to process things quicker and speak faster. Whereas for him, it was more about learning to like breathe and chill out and like it's very cool. It kind of sounds a little bit like Eminem, which you really, really, really, I'll definitely check him out after that. That's really funny that you say that though. Like looking back and like early stuff, I was just constantly like, and that was like my natural like go to it was like, how many syllables kind of fit into this line to the point where I'm stage, I was like, I couldn't breathe through half my songs. I'm not going to lie turning into Busta Rhymes. It was very much the same kind of journey there actually. And now like, you know, I've just finished what I would say is my first official single after trying all sorts of different things. It's the first thing I'm really proud of. And it's like going to be all over. And I tried the exact opposite. I tried some really slow flows and some other stuff. And that's something that I wouldn't have been able to do at the start. Because like you say, it's the speed comes naturally. I'm sure I can word from it all over for like hours if I wanted to. So I have to stop myself now. Fortunately, I'm quite good. It's been like, right? Okay, let's bring it down. Bit of detance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think brilliant spot on. And I never thought about that. It's really interesting that you mentioned that. Thank you very much for that Dreadnought. So good. We're going to, I don't know. Do you guys, do you 12 gauge an FMA? Do you guys want to speak together? Like, do you want to kind of address different things or do I want to speak alongside my son? Whoa. Yes. Yeah. No, we can talk different. Our stories are very different. So I'm cool doing it separately. Really? Well, do you want to go first? Do you want to tell me a little bit about how you discovered your neurodiversity and what kind of journey you've been on? How it affects your creativity? My journey is very, very different to everyone else's because I'm 43 years old now. And I wasn't diagnosed until I was 36. So my life was very troubled. So one of the things like with autism is you get obsessed. Don't you get obsessed about absolutely everything you find? You find a piece of music and you listen to five seconds of it over and over again, or you hear someone say a word and use that word in everything that you've ever done. And then you find a film and then you watch that film until you know every word and you don't understand why no one else wants to watch that film with you. Even though that's the only thing you ever talk about. And so not knowing that I was autistic. As a kid, I had like a really good imagination. But then as soon as my teenage years hit, it felt like all these walls that were in my head fell down and they like protected me from the world. Did these walls are protected me from sights and sounds and all sorts of things because you've got so much energy as a kid. And then you talk to sit down in high school and learn and the information was just overwhelming. And I didn't realize I was being overwhelmed. I didn't realize I was struggling. I didn't realize I couldn't talk to people. And so one day when I found alcohol, I was like, wow, this is like the greatest thing in the world. This light eased everything. And I was 14 years old when I found alcohol. And then I very quickly almost drank myself to death. And by the age of 21, I was in rehab. And I was in rehab for a year and a half. And I had Callum at the age of 19. So yeah, so I was in rehab for a year and a half. And then I came out of rehab and they'd kind of cured the alcoholism kind of I said kind of because I still I had a cook. Well, I have many relapses, but every time I drank, yeah, I wasn't drunk or like my body was drunk, but my mind wasn't drunk. That drunk feeling never ever came back. Like, it's really, really weird how they reprogram my brain. But like, I'm like a sponge for information as well. So every day in rehab, I was just like absorbing all all this information and learning. Because in rehab, you need to learn the rehab that I went to, rather than relying on the 12 step program or stuff like that, what the rehab did. But I went to be taught you how your brain worked. And because when you're an alcoholic or an addict, you tend to have a drink and you blame it on something small. And it's not that that happened. It's something that happened like five days ago that led to the snowball effect. And so in rehab, they teach you to follow the thoughts back and discover where they're all coming from. So I spent a year and a half of like, learning that. So I came out of rehab with all this knowledge and all this wisdom. But I was a 20, like 23 year old. And so all my social skills have been damaged from overdrink. Then all my social skills have been damaged on top of that from over rehab. And I couldn't drink, I couldn't go out and drink. So I started to be very, very insular and like, I found it really hard to talk to people talking to people would make me anxious. And like someone, a girl would maybe say, Oh, it was nice to see you. And then I go home and I'd be like, did you mean it was nice to see me? Or is that what people say? And it was like, it's so confusing. You get these really simple sentences. And they would be so simple that they would cause you to break down. Like you don't understand, like, because people talking such strange ways. But like, and all that kept going on, I'd get more addictions. So I got addicted to painkillers, got addicted to other drugs and all sorts of things. And it's like, no matter what I did, I couldn't stop the addictions. And then at the age of 32, or something, I went to uni to study and at university, I saw this on one of your posts on social media, you had a very similar experience that I had at uni. I tried to fit in the alcohol is, well, it's it. Go on. Sorry, go on. Right. Well, at uni, no, I meant what you meant. You said you were very isolated from people at uni. And I had the exact same thing. I tried to fit in. Everyone was going out fresh this week. Everyone was going out drinking. Everyone was invited everywhere. And I wasn't invited any place, any time ever. And it was like, there were people who spread rumors in class about me and things. Because I was always honest. And I assumed everyone else was always honest. So I like people know I was an alcoholic. And I had addiction issues because I thought that's what you should do. But little did I know that you being honest and open, you're not lying, you know, you put in stuff out there. I think it's it's really hard, isn't it? Because if you don't have sort of an awareness of autism, because in a lot of people's mind, even when we we hear stuff about autism, you kind of always jump to these kind of very extreme stigmas of what you think it is. And it's very hard to, like it's like a wall for you being able to identify yourself with that. Because it's so so out there. And you know, you feel like it's a separate thing to you. And I think, you know, definitely, one of one of the biggest contributors to me with my issues with with alcohol was Alexifamia, you know, not being able to attach my my thoughts and experiences to my emotions. And it's really interesting when you said about, you know, something happened like five days ago. And then you're trying to manage it now by by using the the substances to kind of help with that. And that that's kind of a lot to do with with my experience of like having that separation. It's like, right, I feel stressed, I only know that I feel bad. I don't know why I feel bad, but I just know I feel bad. And there's no way to process that in any way, because I don't know what the cause is. And I think that's that's a really, I think Alexifamia in general, especially, you know, related to autism, and it's very, very, it's not very understood. And I think it's, you know, it definitely has a really big impact on our ability to like regulate ourselves. And I know in general, that the statistics around addiction and around alcohol are really, really, really tough. It doesn't help that alcohol is so glorified in the UK. It's it's, I mean, it's it's insane. Just, you know, the amount of events that, as you said, during Freshers Week, the amount of events that go on, it's it's pretty much a haven for binge drinking. And, you know, something that that people don't, you know, that I didn't see around university, nobody told me is that there was actually like a really hefty amount of deaths associated with binge drinking. And it's, it's very hard hitting, like, for me to come across that information, just be like, geez, like, how is this still happening? Like, how is this still a thing? Why is why is it such a such a part of our culture that we go out and consume this this this substance very readily? Like our parents are like, Hey, do you want some, do you want some alcohol? Do you want a beer with this with this meal? Your friends are like, oh, I brought, you know, a bottle of vodka. Let's drink this. It's, it's mad. And the effects of it are, you know, almost immediate. You have withdrawal, you know, hangover. It's the only drug I like missing rehab. But it's the only drug that affects every single part of your body. When I'd gone into rehab, the backs of my legs, my calves cramped, they would not like relax. It was really horrible was that. But yeah, alcohol is the only thing that affects like everything. Fix your brain, fix your liver, your blood vessels, your heart. It's, it's, it is, it is absolutely crazy. But I know we're not talking specifically about alcohol in this it's cool. I could talk about alcohol all day if you wanted to Thomas. But yeah, so yeah, so I was at uni and like it turns really bad and then I had to take a year out to recover because that's like I had like the worst year of my life in 2013. And then I spent a whole year to like preparing and going back and I just smashed it when I got back. And I got a first I finished off on my class I was on the radio newspaper and everything. But then as soon as I finished uni, I got I had an IQ test around that time. Like a friend was like studying to be a doctor. And they tested out the proper IQ test a two hour one like the one with all sorts of things. And I enjoyed all of it. But my processing speed on it was really, really bad. And they said like when the results came back, but I had strong signs of autism. So I went to a guy, guide or I went to someone a doctor and be diagnosed with autism. And that moment was craziest moment ever because my processing speeds are so slow. Anyway, I'll get upset by something today, but I won't react to it for like another few days. That's like, but this thing was so big. This was like looking back on my entire life. And everything was different. And like the only good example I have is like, it's a twist at the end of the film, like you've watched this massive film and then suddenly they say, Oh, no, but like it was this way. And you're like, what? And that's exactly how I thought. And it was crazy. I went through all the stages of grief. It was denial. There was anger. There was sadness. It was lost. And like, yeah, but as soon as it like clicked, that's what was going on. And because one thing my autism gives me is this amazing ability to sense patterns and solve puzzles. And like, I see patterns everywhere. It's like it makes songwriting and scriptwriting and anything creative really, really good because I feel the patterns when they're in place. And so when I was looking back at my life, it allowed me to see this pattern of creativity. And every time I'd created something, I was getting out the stuff that was in my head. And I'd done it all my life. And it was only at that point that I was like, this is how I keep myself. Well, this is how I stop drinking. This is how I keep the addictions under control, but keep making things. And so from that point on, it became like my mission to like, keep creating and tell people how important creativity is because it really does save lives. It like keeps you well. It allows you to get out all the subconscious thoughts. It allows you to get out all the horrible thoughts, all the nasty things, all the horrible experiences. It allows you to get them out in a really productive and safe manner and put take like literally take them, pull them from yourself and put them somewhere else. But like, but where my brain is it like it constantly fills up with this stuff, like all the sensory input and all the bad thoughts and things. So the creativity is a constant job. So it's like, I'm forever like grabbing bits like a bucket and you try to poke some holes into it to let the water come out. Exactly. And so yeah, when I got that my diagnosis, that's what clicked. And it was like, this is what's what my life is. And this is what I should be doing in my life. My good friend, Brian Bird, he does a lot of like public speaking around the country. He's a very late diagnosed individual. And he talks a lot about sort of the experience of late diagnosis. It's kind of like you're basically challenging the whole identity that you've had for the majority of your life and the older that you are, the more like hard hitting it is. And it is kind of in a sense mourning, but it's also like sort of being born again. Like you've had a you've had a new you're having a new adolescence, you're kind of looking back for your life and picking things out and going, you know, the stuff that you gave yourself a hard time, you pick it out and you're like look a bit more closely in the lens of the lens of autism. Suddenly, it's like, yeah, suddenly the picture chains a little bit. And it's kind of like, you see that event from a whole different new angle. Like, yeah, like, I felt very sorry for the younger me, but one who didn't have a clue what was going on. Because it was, I just, I don't wish, but if there was someone there to just help and just say, oh, this is how things should be, which is kind of like what happened with me in 12 gauge, like when Callum came to love with me, it was like, that's what I did. I was like, I did what should have been done with me with 12 gauge, because I just needed someone to pick me up and hold me tight and say, right, that's not how things work. This is how you should do it. And this is why you should do it. And that's what happens when you don't do it like that. Because people just give instructions, don't be like, I don't drink too much, you'll die and like, okay, I'm doing what I want. And you'll drink as much as you want. But like, and so like, they don't give you the detail, do they? They don't say like, right, this is what happens in your brain. And this, these chemicals go up and like, it's just, it's like, it's like what the doctors do. It's like when they tell, you know, people who are becoming very, very overweight and obese, they tell them like, you need to lose weight. It's like, why? Yeah. Well, what's that going to do? How am I supposed to do it? They just kind of give you this list of things that you're supposed to do. And you, they're all very, very complex things. And they have lots of different aspects to them that you kind of have to work through and try out. And they just don't communicate that in a way that that that people take it seriously. Because it's like, oh, yeah, the doctors, yeah, exercise, yeah, eat well, sleep well, like, of course. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's just mad. It's just a mad world that we live in. And just a mad society as well. But yeah, that's, that's basically my story. And that's why I create. It's like, it keeps me well. And it keeps me, it's important. And it keeps me happy more than anything else. That's something. Thank you very much for that. And 12 gauges have been sitting very, very, very quietly in the background waiting for the time to you. Yeah, best to last and all that. Go for it, mate. Tell us about your story. Yeah, so kind of, I wasn't really diagnosed, like I'm dyslexic. And I found that out after high, no, the first year of college. So I'd gone through exams, I've gone through all that stress. And then after that, you do like, what is it? It's like a standardized learning difficulty test or something like that. It's like just a standardized test, you do it every beginning of the year to see if you've got learning difficulties. And they were like, I finished it and probably around five minutes, it was meant to take like 15. And I was just like, yeah, that, that, this one, this one, done. And then the teacher comes around and then they're like, all right, Helen, you're gonna have to take that again. And I'm like, all right, why? And then they stay with me the entire time. And this time I proper go through it. And then they're like, I'm like, all right, yeah, so I scored like an 80. Is that good? And then they're like, no, it means that you probably have some learning difficulties. And then I went into college and they gave me a proper thing. And I found out I was dyslexic. And weirdly, it was like how I see it is like a very micro miniature version of how FMA said, because I hated school, I always hated school and education, all that stuff. I just despised it. And when I look, it's very visual, isn't it? Oh, yeah, especially like a school with the light boards and the blackboards and stuff. Oh yeah. Well, it's, it's like when I look back on it, because what dyslexia has done to me is that if you give me a set of instructions right now, my brain will manage to flip them by the time you've, I'd like, it comes for me to do it. So if you gave me like the instructions to get to the shop, and I was like, okay, so it's a left, then a right, I will go right and then left and then get completely lost. And that's like having a mirror in your brain. Yeah, pretty much. And that kind of was my experience of school. So I was in like bottom set for everything with all like the bad kids and, you know, the people with undiagnosed learning difficulties and the diagnosed learning difficulties. And people just thought I was stupid, to be honest. And like I said before, I have like major confidence issues. So that didn't help. Pretty much. I was in it. It can be very destructive, can't it? Because it is, you know, school, as you said, the sets that kind of divide you into different learning groups and you automatically, you know, assign people as smarter when they're higher up in the sets. But when you have a learning difficulty, it kind of puts a little bit of a block between you and the information that comes in. One of my family members, very, very, very smart individual, has a lot potential, was really, really crushed by their experience with being dyslexic. They took it like as a very, very personal thing. It's like, I don't have dyslexia. It's not, it's not something that requires a lot of attention. It's just that I'm stupid and I can't do this and I can't do that. And the thing is, is that they are actually very, very intelligent, very, very good at socializing, very, very talented, I would say. And it's kind of that experience of them at school really, really made sort of the confidence levels very, very low. Oh, yeah. It ends up like for me, it became because alongside that was bullied. And I had like a really abusive step-parent when I was a kid and it just kept mounting was like all of this stuff where it was literally beating me down at an incredibly formative point in my life, I'd say. And it led to me viewing the world in an extremely dangerous way. So I became, because the nuts thing is, is like, I completely, well, FMA is my dad. So I relate to him in a weird way. Not even in a weird way, he's my dad, what am I saying? Of course, he's my relation. Yes, yeah. But when I first on TV, when I saw people have relationships, like having a girlfriend and having alcohol and having these things that instantly made those characters happy, just instant. Like there was no sort of buildup, there wasn't any self-improvement, there wasn't looking in yourself. It was, I have a beer, I'm good now. And I became incredibly obsessed with a ton of things at an age that I shouldn't have been obsessed with them at all. So it's like, I have vivid memories of being like really young and putting my mom's wine in like a Rabina bottle and going into primary school with that and stuff like that. Not enough that I'll be drunk. But in my head, it was like, that's the thing that makes me feel good. And these things kept developing and I kept like through the way that school kind of isolates you when you have learning difficulties of just keeping you kind of in the bottom set and just keeping you away from like all these other kids and you're in probably the class with a lot of people who have issues and who maybe aren't the nicest people through no fault of their own. But you're in those classes and it just kept reinforcing this behavior until the point when I had to literally my mom said that I couldn't live with her anymore. And I needed to go and live with FMA. And that was where music started. But the only thing that was the connective throughout all of that was rap and writing lyrics. And that was like the only thing I became like hyper obsessed with that. Like listening to why do you why do you think you gravitated towards rap music? Like why not sort of mainstream path? Why not metal? Why not reggae? I think what it genuinely was looking back on it was metal was angry. And I've always liked metal. But rap, there were like two major things. One, there was the confidence of it. The confidence that they were talking about all of these like systemic racist messed up lives that they had lived. And they were now in a position where they were telling you that they are the best thing on the planet. They are that confident and they've gone through so much crap. And pretty much the next thing that I just really liked about it was I think it a point in my life where I felt extremely lonely and isolated in school and by a supposed friend group that I had at that time where I was the punching bag of that friend group. I relate. And it's also weird, isn't it? Because you don't clock on to it until you look back at it. When you're a kid, it's like, oh, yeah, these are my friends, these are who I go and hang around at lunch. And then when you look, it's like you don't have the ability to be serious about anything like, yeah, to take anything personally because you just say, oh, well, this must be what life is like. And, you know, there's nothing wrong with this because this is all I know. Yeah, yeah. And you just kind of eventually like looking back, I think you just clock on to the fact of no, those weren't jokes, you were all pointedly joking at me, you weren't making jokes with me, they were at me. And yeah, so that was like the friend group and stuff. So when I listened to rap, and it were these people just being hyper confident, and then I'd hear a punchline. And I don't understand that punchline. I felt like the cleverest person on the planet in like, while I was at school, and you know, they were like, bottom set, you know, you can't do division or long form multiplication or any of this stuff. And then I was like, yeah, but I understood the line that DMX just said, did you? And it turned into this whole thing where I genuinely saw when I look back on it, I genuinely think that those were my friends. I had rappers who would tell me about their lives and would give me these stories and these positive stories of why not to go to jail. And, you know, what to do in these situations and stuff. And I just loved it. And it became as a kid, it became almost a thing, because that same friendship group when I mentioned I wanted to rap or be a rapper, they were immediately like, oh, you can't do that. You just can't. One thing that they liked to do was in classes, they would give me random words to rhyme until I couldn't rhyme a word. And then they would proceed to then, you know, have a massive thing at me about see this is why you can't be a rapper. You need to rhyme words all the time. So it's literally like, you're rhyming and rhyming and rhyming. You do all these, like you're literally doing what they ask you to do. But as soon as it comes to a point, like they just keep going and going. And then of course, at some point, you're gonna, like anyone's gonna have like difficulties doing that. Yeah. And it kept repeating, but that gave me the kind of chip on my shoulder, I think I needed to pursue rap, like not all of the other horrible things that my brain became obsessed with. But to pursue rap, I think that really helped because it literally made rap my only focus. Writing was my only focus. It was, I didn't like school. My friends weren't really friends. The only thing I had was listening to rap and writing rap. And that was it. And then with that same energy when I came to live with dad, who'd already been in a band, who'd played me rap before and who I knew had done all these things I wanted to do, it was like having personal access to Eminem. And I just went absolutely ballistic. It was like every day. And yeah, and like dad said, he he managed to get me at a point in my life where he was able to make me view the world in the correct way. Because I think when you have an addictive personality and problems with addiction, anything can become obsessive. Absolutely anything. And that could be from, you know, drinking to exercise to absolutely anything. And I've become obsessed with It's interesting that you mentioned exercise. I was terribly addicted to it. I kind of literally every night I would go out in like the freezing cold winter with like a t-shirt on and just run for like hours and hours in the dark. Like, my mom used to get really, really worried about me. But it was, yeah, it was crazy. I really struggled at that time with like my sleep and stuff. And I didn't really know how to deal with it. So the way that I sort of got rid of any time I felt any level of anxiety, alertness, anything like that, I would just drop down and do like push ups until I can do them. And then I'd get up and I do sit ups and couldn't do them. And then I do squats and it really did get good to a point because I had I had some issues when I started to do taekwondo because there's a lot of stuff around weight classes and stuff. And there was a big issue because my appetite wasn't very good at the time. So I was constantly exercising, constantly breaking down my body and not giving it time to recover. And then on top of that, I wasn't eating. So it was definitely looking back on it. Yeah, a lot more akin to an exercise addiction than like pure passion. I was kind of I was I was weird about that. And I was like, in my own little headspace about honestly, I was watching anime and drag, and I was like, I'm going to be a superhero. Like, you see one punch man doing like 100 push ups. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to do that. Honestly, I find it so weird, like, that you say that because I, I would kind of say I still am. They're like, I think when there's certain times, like, in formative years where you can experience things, and it pushes you to focus on something. So it's like I had an abusive stepdad dad and was bullied and stuff like that. And as a kid that makes you feel powerless. And when you look on media and you see like huge guys and that powerful. And you're like, yeah, that's it. That's, that's like how I feel agency and how I feel strong. And I genuinely I'd like the same thing. Like I remember during COVID was possibly the worst point for that was when I decided during COVID because there's nothing else to do. I'm going to get ripped. I'm going to get huge. I'm going to come out of COVID and I'm going to be a tank. And like, I'm, I'm thin. I'll admit it now. But like, I am thin and I probably will. Oh, I used, I used to do the same. People used to take the mecca with me because every time that they poked like my arm or something, I'd like tense, but they knew that I was tensing. I was so like skinny that I'm looking back. I'm like, Oh my God. Oh, that was cringe. But yeah, it becomes like this thing where like, to me at that time, it was like, yeah, I'm going to get out of COVID. I'm going to be a tank. It's new reality. Yeah. And what I remember is that I also understood nothing of nutrition. This was where I first went wrong in the grand scheme of becoming a tank. I knew nothing about how to fuel myself or how to correctly rest or how my body would recover. So it was literally, I think it was five days a week, I would go on a walk in the morning, I would come back and I'd do this like mental push-up weight lift thing. And I would pretty much eat six eggs, drink free protein shakes before every meal. And then this inevitably happened where I had a kidney storm that developed into a kidney infection. Oh, dear. And that was like the worst wake-up call I could have had because instantly in that moment, I was like, this is so severe, this pain. It was like the first time I couldn't sleep through pain. And it was that proper thing, but it properly taught me at that point that like everyone is different. Like my body will not look like someone else's body, but it's mine and it functions in its own way and I've got to understand that. And yeah, I just find it mad the amount of things that you can become obsessed and addicted to because it could even become like TV. Well, yeah, everyone's addicted to TV. But like, you know, you can get addicted to media or some form of like, one really odd thing is that my grandma is addicted to chocolate and only chocolate. That is it. It's not like, you know, binge eating sugar or sugary things, it's just chocolate. And that's what I found like so kind of interesting and mad. And I'm really glad that I came to live with my dad and he taught me how that actually functions because I know that if I didn't have that, the amount of things I would be struggling with now would be immense. I would just be, you know, fixating on anything that would make me feel different. So yeah. Thank you very much for that. It's cool. I wanted to ask one more question because, you know, might be a little bit of the elephant in the room, but autism tends to be very genetic. Do you think that you're autistic as well? Well, I think the whole group is autistic to a point. Definitely on some form of the spectrum as well. Yeah, that was a good question. I think I am. It's usually the opposite of around. It's like, like, like when I got diagnosed, I was like, hmm, my dad seems a bit similar to me, seems to have the same sort of issues as me. And then I talk to other people and I'm like, oh yeah, my dad's the same. Oh, he doesn't want to know anything about it. Whereas you guys, it's like, go for it. Sorry, I'm speaking over you. Yeah, well, I don't know. I find it, this is the honest thing with it, is I think I could very well possibly be, that was a very roundabout way of saying yes. But yeah, I do hyper fixate. I do become overwhelmed, especially with information, I can get like very overwhelmed with that. The thing is, is that I know how my brain works. Sure. And that's the thing. I know that, like in the back of my mind, I know that that diagnosis would explain a lot. But I also know that my brain could use that as an excuse. So if it was something I didn't want to do, or I was, you know, feeling too tired to do, and like, I could just be like, oh, I'm just, you know, today. And that's kind of the thing, I think, for me, at least. I think everyone, if they feel like they need it, should have a diagnosis and stuff like that. But I also kind of just think it's me as well. Yeah, I completely get, I completely get that. I think it's, I mean, obviously, it's not always as clear as that. You know, my, it probably give me a good telling off if I said this, but I'm pretty sure my dad's autistic. And he kind of, over the years, he's sort of warmed up to the idea. But then again, then again, my brother is not. So it's not always the case that it kind of passes down. But I would definitely look into it, because I know that from talking to, there was this documentary that I made as part of my final year at university. I did biomedical sciences and I looked into like the link between autism and mental health, because there wasn't really much out there at the time. Well, there was the statistics out there, but there wasn't actually any media being made about it, even though it's just like glaringly horrible and depressing to look at like the stats on it. And I made this documentary and one of the people that I interviewed was a man called Peter Bainbridge, who ran this like, I don't know how to describe it. It was kind of like a mediating service. He's autistic himself. He was late diagnosed. And he goes about and he tries to mediate between autistic people and the family members or like the law or like things related to housing and landlords. And one of the things that he said is that a lot of people, especially for people like in their early 20s or mid 20s, you kind of go through life, you kind of focusing on other things. And at some point, an issue will come up, which is related to autism, like something that you can't fix. You might perhaps gone through your entire life repeating the same kind of routine, just being very happy going about and doing stuff. And then suddenly something just jumps in and you're like, I don't know how to process this. And he says that that's quite a it's quite a common thing to happen. And it sometimes ends quite badly for the individuals who really haven't looked into it. I'm not saying I'm more speaking to the audience giving my story. I'm not saying to you like, go and get yourself an autism diagnosis. Yeah, I just think that I'm kind of blessed to have supportive people around me who understand mental health. I know that there are a lot of people out there who don't have that. And I know that if I didn't have that, I would definitely be searching out a diagnosis if I really required it. So I do encourage everyone. Yeah, I'm sorry if that was... Oh, don't worry about it, man. It's all misconstrued as me talking down to you. I didn't mean to do it like that, but... Okay. Don't have to apologize. His granddad's definitely autistic, though, even though he doesn't have a diagnosis. My dad is unbelievably autistic. And the worst bit is that me, my mum, and my little brother have a sneaking suspicion that my granddad on my mum's side of the family is also autistic. He turned around and said like the funniest thing. And this is fine. He hates computers. He will never listen. But he said the funniest thing to me where like, he just walked into the room and just sat on the sofa and me and my mum sat there and then he's like, oh, yeah, I've been hearing about this new autism thing. Yeah. And you don't like loud noises. And people keep saying that I might be, but I'm definitely not. But you know, when they play music in Tesco, I hate it. And he just like, I was like, all right. And then he just picked up his paper and just kept reading. Yeah. It's funny, isn't it? It's that whole thing of not being able to identify with the label because of the stigma, the wall of stigma that's in the way. And I find that particularly for my granddad, absolutely no chance in hell that I'm ever going to convince him at all that he might be on the spectrum. And it would probably help him a lot and help him process a lot that's gone on in his life. But yeah. Well, thank you for telling me you all telling me about your stories. I never aspects that I really want to talk about is I guess it gets more related to like mental health because I know that FMA was talking about sort of how how creative how the creative side of himself was used to to sort of process things and to have an outlet for negative emotions and experiences. And I really feel that like it's something for me that you know, through my work, through my podcasting, through my writing, creativity has always been a really, really big part of me even going back to the times when I was in early teenage, I'd be writing this really crazy depressive poetry about like all sorts of really dark stuff. And I always had that kind of outlet. And I think for me, definitely, I mean, there was a point in my life where I mean, to be honest, ever since I was about 14, where I was trying to understand myself and I was trying to process what was going on with me, the only real outlet that I had was, you know, the poetry and listening to music. And there wasn't really any way that I could verbalize exactly how I was feeling because I didn't understand all of the aspects of autism and, and, you know, particularly the stuff around Alexifamia. But to stop myself from rambling, no tricks, would you be able to talk a little bit about, you know, some of the benefits that have come from getting involved with with music? Well, I can finally say exactly what I feel. And yes, it does involve my mask on. I'm a very open person. But with regards to some really, really dark things within me, like the really bad thoughts, I am used to not, you know, opening up on those things. And with music, I started being much, much more open. And all my songs are basically like every single song that I ever made was inspired by some event that made me very emotional and very unhappy. And I just wrote a song about it. Basically, the whole music project was around that. I needed, I was just like you writing poetry first. And then I also realized that my mom was the same. My mom was the same. She hasn't, she's yet to show me this very depressing poetry, but I'm waiting for it. Yeah, well, depressing poetry, then I realized that I actually want to sing that poetry. Then I realized that there is no one really there to help me and make music for it. So I'm going to do it myself. So I went to school to study music production. And there we are. But it's always about those verses. It's always about getting those things out there. And I just recently released my first EP, which has five songs and all of those five songs are based on five different emotions and events that I went through over the course of last year. And this is also something that brings my audience to me and makes people relate to what I do. But yeah, I think without that, I might have still been struggling with getting the thoughts out of my head and living through that. Because again, there was this a lot of forbidden feelings, like feelings that I'm not allowed to do those things. And also thanks to the project, I also prove to myself and others that I exist, which is, again, as you mentioned with DAD, one of the things that appears quite often is that people with DAD feel like that thing doesn't even exist. Because of the society, how the society views it. But even worse, the people with DAD already feel that they don't exist. So they don't have to have a society to tell them that. Because it's always like, oh, maybe I'm actually that person. Maybe like everyone wants me to be that person. Maybe I actually am. Maybe I'm not myself. Maybe I'm her. And that's where it's the most frustrating. And I actually wrote a song about that too. And it's like one of the most dramatic things I've ever written. And it's just, it's really painful to struggle to understand who you are and whether you exist. And again, thanks to that, thanks to my music project, I find people who are like me, I can think those things through. So yeah, this is how creativity basically helped me with my mental health issues. I think it's, you know, it's quite a good, if I had to try and make a little bit of a comparison, I mean, you know, like in the past, there was a lot of mystery around autism, you know, the basis of what people understood about it was through movies like Rain Man. That was kind of people's perception of what autism is. You know, as the world has sort of progressed and people, autistic adults and advocates and allies have got online to talk about it and sort of, I guess, address the stigma and sort of give the reality of living on the spectrum. People start to, I guess, take it a bit more seriously, you know, like, you can definitely see a contrast between people nowadays that you talk to who use like social media and who actively, you know, go on and search things and see watch content on YouTube. And, you know, there's a lot more opportunities for them to really be exposed to neurodiversity, I guess, things related to autism. And even though it is, well, it's debatable, but even though we are a portion, a minority of the population, because of social media, we can all congregate in this massive online circle, which is very big, you know, if you take the world's population, to be conservative based on the stats, 2%, it's probably more than that. 2% of, what is it, like, seven, eight billion, there's still quite a lot of people. And I guess, you know, one of the issues that might be, you know, a problem, you know, the problem for me, talking to perhaps the older generation, like my grandparents about it, is that they just have no idea how to relate at all. They don't have any comprehension. I can imagine that considering the rates of DID, and also the stigma around it, it's going to be very, very, very difficult to be able to be open about it, be able to genuinely tell people about it without, I guess, receiving, you know, the judgment, I guess. Do you think that would be a good comparison, or is that? Well, first thing I did when starting this project was just to actually cut off myself from everyone in my life who was from her life, from the past life, because I know that those people would not understand at all because of how different we are. So, like, all her best friends, all her, like, very close people, they would not understand a thing of what's going on. And I just realized that it's just, if it's impossible to explain, although, again, admittedly, there were people who understood that something has happened, but when I approached them with a diagnosis, some of them, and that was also quite a pain. They were saying that, no, you need to search for another doctor, which I did, by the way, I actually had two doctors diagnosed me, just to be sure. And, yeah, so I just realized that I need to be around people who actually are willing to understand neurodiversity, at least for the time being, before it becomes not mainstream, but something that the world understands, because right now it's growing. Yeah, it's growing, exactly. And so, yeah, I'm not thinking about it yet. I know that for now, with my audience as is, I can already see that there are so many people who appreciate what I do, and they appreciate what I'm sharing with the world, and they actually understand it. I don't know whether it's the way I'm explaining it, that is more not relatable, but people tend to understand what I'm trying to explain, or is it the people, because my audience is pretty niche because of the genre I'm in, but somehow those things came together, and I don't think over the year, since I started, I would have only one or two people who wouldn't believe me, and even then I provided arguments. There's, I have quite a few things that can make anyone just stop and listen, because I can even, if I give a picture, there were people, well, I don't share my face too much, but if I do it in a safe way, there you go, look, is that the same person? And my other self actually doesn't look like me, which is crazy, but it's been proven by scientists that some people with DID might develop biologically, physically different appearances, which is crazy, but yeah, we don't share too much aside of our history, our parents, our background, but otherwise we're very different, and so I can easily prove to people who don't trust me, but luckily there's very many people who do trust me who understand that such things can happen in the smart world, and there is a reason why that happened, so somehow so far I've been very lucky that I don't have to go out of my own way to prove myself, but still, I am getting ready for those things to happen one day, and I don't know, maybe two of diagnosis could help. Yeah, I think it's crazy just like, so I was talking about like the Rain Man film around autism and stuff, and you know, there is a lot of movies and a lot of films out there which hinge upon the idea of split personalities and multiple personalities, like that sounds very, like in my head that sounds very similar to the effects that Rain Man's had on society, like I think there was a film, what called Split, about the, I can't remember his name, the bald headed do-do goes crazy and is a personality where he like crawls on the walls and stuff, like do you think that that that kind of sort of sensationalized media is kind of harmful to I guess individuals like yourself? I did think about that. I'm not sure, it depends on how narrow you look at the movie, if you look at the movie and say, oh, if that's how it happens, then it's happening all the way through, although what I liked about this movie is that it portrays the people with DID as very unique systems, this is what it is, like there's very unique systems, if you can have two people inside one head, then, and it's already something different to what you see from other people, right? So how many actually different mixes of different people could there be? So it's like, okay, in one system, there might be evil personalities. In another system, there might be all harmful personalities. In my system, the one thing that kind of makes us similar is that there are like two very hard working individuals. This is, I think, something that we relate on and that's probably genetic, we're very energetic and hard working. Well, I don't know, just that, and so which is why we're, I think, we're pretty adequate and we can actually communicate with each other as opposed to other systems where there's like absolute chaos and people, those personalities within the one hand cannot agree with each other. But yeah, I actually did like the concept, how they explained it, that those changes in one's brain can be very unique and that those changes can actually be even physical, which is true. This is what I have seen in me. We even have like different weight, for instance, it's like my balanced weight, I don't change from my weight now. And she was struggling with her weight, which is 10 kilos more, and she couldn't lose weight ever. I didn't even have to, I didn't do anything, it's just disappeared. She was binge eating all the time when she was stressed. When I'm stressed, I don't eat at all. I just, I hate food, like that's how bad it is. And this is this like different hormonal systems, different physical, like, biorhythms and stuff. This is how crazy the differences are. Thank you very much for that. Yeah, it's really interesting to me to, you know, I'm always very, very keen and very interested in learning about different, you know, brains and their experiences. And I'm always, you know, I'm always very, I guess I just want to say that I appreciate you sort of telling me about it. Thank you very much for that, Netflix. Dreadnought's also been sitting by very, very quietly, patiently waiting. I guess I want to know a little bit about a little bit more about sort of your experiences with mental health and how creativity has sort of had a positive influence in your life. Yeah. I mean, when it comes to like my mental health, it's, there's one particular moment, I weren't sure if I was going to speak about it or not, to be honest, because it's not really something I've spoken much about, but everyone's been very open and understanding it has made me comfortable enough to speak about this one particular point. There was an event that happened. I, unfortunately, I lost my best friend at the time when I was in, so it's just going into the second year of uni. No, no, it's okay. It's okay. It's just the past. It's something, you know, I've learned and I've accepted now, it's an unfortunate reality. You know, I went through a lot of therapy through it and, and, you know, it's something that I've accepted now. And when I think back on it, it's still quite painful, but there's a lot of love there. But I remember very much at the time. There was a lot of darkness within me. There was a lot of recklessness as well. And it was, unfortunately, it was drug related. And weirdly, you know, if I went down as spiral, not long after that, where I was cramming all sorts of things down my throat up my nose, I was in a very, very unhealthy situation. And I had a lot of like toxicity within me, a lot of like hatred for what had happened. And I felt like I wanted to, like, I just hated the world. I didn't care for myself or anything around me, really. I didn't really have a lot of respect for myself either. And that anger kind of weirdly enough was the formation of when I really started to like dig into these darker roots of dreadnought, these like really tough topics. Before that, I was trying all sorts of different things. And these different emotions, they weren't resonating with my music the way I wanted. But this like rage and anger and stuff, like it felt good. And it was one of the few things that like made me feel good without having to, I guess it kind of comes similar into like FMA story as well. It was like one of the few things that felt good. And it felt like I was being productive from it. I wasn't just burning all my money on things that would make me forget the night anyway. I wasn't just fully killing myself. Yeah, yeah, very much so. And it started, I think that made like a real foundation. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all my music is going to be pure like venom and anger and like pouring it out. I'm always like trying different things and like trying to work it. But that gave me a real foundation to be like, there's something tapped here for that I've tapped into, I can tap into my emotions and use it productively. Fortunately, a lot of therapy along the way really helped with that as well. And it helped. You know, my therapist at the time, she really helped me funnel me into that direction of, okay, this is something that you're doing that is productive and healthy. It's not something that is, you know, extremely destructive. And don't get me wrong, like there were times where I thought I've got over it and I hadn't and, you know, fell back into similar patterns. But every time one of the major things that pulled me out of that and pulled me back to a reality, back to the wanting to grow and be a better person and wanting to put these emotions out in a healthy manner was music. It was always the thing that pulled me back. It was, there would be days where I'd come in and be like, I'd be miserable, I'd be so depressed, but I'd pull myself up to do the laptop, put open my laptop and I weren't even necessarily planning on recording anything. I just play about on the piano and I'd literally sit like bloody Phantom of the Opera in my room, headphones on, just playing like different organ settings and like these massive reverbed pianos and just expression expressing what I could. I couldn't really play that well at the time either. I could only really play in minor keys. So it was very dark and moody, but from that, it, you know, it was, it was dirty roots that started growing into something much more, you know, beautiful and poetic, I guess, if you will, not to, not to like flaunt it, like, you know, I don't want to draw the, you know, the stigma there of like, you know, like people think these really genuinely serious, like mental health problems can be romanticised for the sake of, you know, autistic, you know, it's kind of like the gothic angle on. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's weird to say that because I, I definitely did for a long time. Like, yeah, yeah. Same thing. It's almost like, because I, I, it tends to be with my mental health is I tend to say anywhere between mild and moderate in terms of anxiety and depression, like most of the time, but there does tend to be either anywhere between one and three periods throughout the year where my serotonin just absolutely drops and goes and I think I do understand that. Yeah. And if I think, you know, just going through those cycles constantly since the age of about 14, Spain, like nearly a decade now, which is crazy to say, it was like 11 years. Yeah. And I think my mentality is very much changed because I always wanted to, to cure myself. I always wanted to get rid of it. And really the mentality was, is to manage it and put things in place when I'm in the severe, severe period and to feel okay and doing less and being less productive and, you know, doing different things and being like, hey, is actually productive to manage this in the best way possible so I can get back to, to me again, I don't have to do everything and full steam ahead like I was when my mental health was a bit better. Yeah. And there was, there was also an aspect of, you know, really, you know, for my life, I've had really intense spells of like existential feelings. Like there was a period of time at university for about, they were from three to four weeks where I didn't go outside and I just stayed in my room and, you know, the blinds closed and I was having like multiple panic attacks a day and I was watching videos on the nature of time and physics and I literally felt like I was in a different dimension. I was like, I've been in a very, very similar feeling in the past, you know, I've hit them sinks as well. It's pretty much exactly like you said, you know, you lock yourself away, you know, you close yourself off from the world and you just kind of feed into them emotions and then feelings and like you said, I remember my first panic attack and it was literally just going to the shop to buy a sandwich and just with that feeling and it terrified me and I didn't go out for like, I think it must have been like 10 days or something. It's really hard to describe exactly what that kind of, I mean, the, the any way that I could really translate it into terms that people could understand is, is like, you know, if you're watching a TV show your entire life, you watch like these same free seasons over and over again. And then suddenly in one of the episodes, the character looks at the screen and talks to you. That's the kind of feeling that you get when you have that existential fear and it really, it really plunged me into like the depths of nihilism and I literally dissolved any concept of what anything was into nothing. I was like, I can't even think, I can't even speak, I can't do things and it was incredibly dark position to be in. It takes a lot, a lot to pull yourself out of it and, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's ultimately it comes down to you, you know, it comes, it's something that I discovered and I kept waiting, like thinking in the back of my mind that maybe someone would be able to pull me out of this like, it's like, it's always got to be you that does it ultimately, but but then again, it's like a romanticizing. It's like, I don't want to be pulled out of this state of enlightenment. Like, it causes me intense pain and discomfort and emotional distress, but, but you feel like you know everything, like, you know, I can see things, like, see what's going on and I understand all the confusion and it's like, very, very strange state to be in, but being in those states, you know, there was a time, you know, I went to Thailand to do, like, a research placement. I was studying mosquitoes and stuff and that was really cool. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. It was a lot of, I had to dissect mosquitoes using like two needles. It was, I had to take out the reveries and grind them up and look under the microscope and that's heavy. Yeah. It was, it's not my cup of tea. No, no, that's fair enough. That's completely fair enough. Yeah. And the studying aspect and learning about like nature and biology is cool, but then then kind of great things. I completely get that. It's not for me either. I think that there was during that time going during that time in Thailand, because it was such a change in environment, changing atmosphere really. I kind of had just a moment of realization. I was like, I'm constantly chasing this feeling of being happy and not depressed or not anxious at least. It really was more of a self-destructive thing. And I was like, hey, actually, maybe if I focus on something external, if I have some kind of intrinsic meaning that I'm striving to rather than a feeling that's, you know, you can't, you can never make someone feel what you're feeling. So it's hard to ever find peace in that. So for me, it was helping people and through wanting to inform people about my experiences and trying to help them get through similar situations to myself, it actually made me feel that. Yeah, of course. It's like why share groups are so important. It's just even that simplicity of finding out somebody relates to your situation and being able to express that. And I remember even like when I was like struggling horribly with stuff, I would still like speak to other people that were going through stuff and you would feel a little bit better knowing that like the leading bit. Yeah, and it does very much that too. Yeah, definitely. It's like you said, it's not, you spend so long striving for happiness, but it's like, that's not the way to approach it. It shouldn't be, I'm chasing this feeling as such. It's finding the things that give you that feeling. Sure. But like, that's, that's a part of it. And I I've kind of, I've kind of lost my trail a bit there. Like how to No worries. That thought. It's okay with you. It's a table turn. If it's okay with you, I'm going to move on to 12 gauge talk a little bit about, I know FMA you've taught, you talked about a little bit about mental health and stuff. So well, I'll talk to 12 gauge talk a little bit to FMA about mental health and we'll kind of try and wrap things up and sort of end the podcast episode. I guess, yeah, I mean, 12 gauge, do you want to talk a little bit about the benefits that I know you've talked about it. Both you and FMA have talked about it a little bit, but what kind of benefits did you see? Like how did being more creative help you feel better in yourself and manage the difficulties that you've been through? It gave me purpose. That's kind of what I see it as. I'm not going to lie. A lot of the time, creativity infuriates me because I'm doing a master's course and I work with FMA who is, yeah, he's a perfectionist, an obsessive perfectionist and when it comes to his creativity, he doesn't relent on it whatsoever. You give 100% and he can tell when you're giving 98%. So I do find it infuriating, but I feel like that's what happens when you love something. I said it to FMA, we're walking to band practice ones and I just said to him, I feel like the difference is when I was a teenager and I was sat there and I was listening to all that rap and I was writing all those lyrics. That was me first meeting a girl and those were the first few dates and now I've been married for two years to creativity and it's a job to love creativity. But it is the thing that gives me purpose. At the end of the day, there are so many points in my life where I could have just went off the path and just become the hermit. I struggled with a lot of the things that Dreadnought was saying of wanting to isolate myself and never leave the house, never interact with anyone ever again and thinking the world is just a horrible, horrible place and creativity has always been there. It has always been a thing that I can rely on no matter how many friends we fall out or if I break up with someone or whatever, I always have a pen and a paper and I always have me that I can work on and I can do it through creativity and I think it's massively beneficial. I think it's highly underrated in society in general because in a capitalist society, make money, that's all you have to do, just make as much money as possible, not do something for the fact that you love it and I think everyone should be able to have that thing that they just love doing. Like the thing that always annoys me is when people come up to me after we've done a set or after they've heard a song and they turn around to me and they're like, oh, I could never do that. I could never do that. Oh, you're so talented and I was there like, this is like nine to 10 years of sitting with a pen and paper and scrapping it and then rewriting it and getting better and learning new words to rhyme and learning what I actually want to sound like and all of that stuff. The difference is there's like, there's that beginning stage where you're just passionate about it and a lot of the time because of how society is set up, if it's not making money, why are you doing it? And then it gets to the point where it's not making money. So why do you keep doing it? You don't, you just stop. And I think that there are so many people out there. I think there are so many amazing rappers, amazing lyricists, amazing rock bands out there, amazing artists in general, who have never become amazing artists because people have said to them, why are you doing this? It isn't making money. And I think that's, I think it's, that's horrible. I think because it shouldn't be about the money. It should be about making you feel good. If the money happens, that's just positive. And I think as well, because we're living in a time where social media and the internet is such a massive part of everyone's life for a lot of people's lives. And with that comes a lot of opportunity to what you need is a setup at home and a connection. And you can go anywhere you want in the world. You can talk to anyone that you want to talk to. You don't have to travel. You don't have to get a horse and carriage and go get a train and a flight just to go chat to somebody. You can actually just do what we're doing and just jump on a call, have a chat and stuff. But the issue comes in there is that there will be a lot of opportunity. And that means there will be a lot of people. And what happens in hierarchies is people, especially in the creative industry, there is a very small amount of the large population of creative people who manage to get to a certain point. And the weird dynamic with the creative industry is that creativity is something that comes to you and it's something that you develop slowly. And it's something that comes best when you're relaxed or when you feel comfortable. But on the flip side, you've got to get the deadline. You've got to do this. You've got to do this for a certain amount of time. You've got like, you know, perhaps in the past, you'd have a painter who'd come home from working his job in the mineshaft or something and whips out his paintbrush and he just does as much as he wants to. And that's his creativity. But you know, trying to make it as like a creative person, you've got to be creative and you've got to be very fast at doing it. And you've got to do all of this other stuff. And so there's like, there's more opportunity to do it. But then there's so much more competition where it just whittles down to this highly creative, very, very fast producing individuals that it can make it really, really difficult for a lot of creative people in any industry, whether it be podcasts or writing or music, it's so hard to get to that point where it becomes something that you can just do solely. And I feel that I think the one massive reason that like me and FMA like we like go on about this all the time, but you know, that everyone should create everyone should do that. Even if it's like, you know, you're drawing stickmen fighting at the back of your workbook or something. It's it is expression. And the way the social media is the way that everyone is currently is yeah, you're you're right to express yourself, but you've got to express the best version of yourself. You can't constantly you can't take a picture of you screaming at a wall because you've woke up 10 minutes late for work and you've missed the bus. You can't do that. But if you write that if you just write a story and it doesn't have to be good, but about that same guy missing that bus for work, you've expressed that thought and that feeling rather than bottling it and just keeping it locked in the back of your head to just eat away at you for another week. And then something else happens and you bottle it and you bottle it. And I think it is that massive con of social media that it has given us the ability to talk to anyone to express ourselves however we want. But now there is the perfect way of expressing yourself. You should always be as beautiful as possible. You should always be as fit as possible. You should be in the sunny beaches of Barbados. But you can't afford it. So you know, you can't get there. But you know, there is the way of showing yourself to the world and creativity to me is the way of expressing who you truly are and not being afraid to do that in whatever form it is. And that's what it does for me, I think. Brilliant. Thank you very much, TopGage. Yeah, a round of applause. Yeah, everyone's capping up with our other audience on. So imagine it in your heads. Oh, you've got standing ovation in your heads, I've all imagined it. Yeah, yeah. So I, for me, it's down to you for the last question as well. I know you talked a lot about sort of your experiences for mental health. I mean, if you can kind of like what what does what does creativity do for you? Like, like nowadays, because you talked about it sort of your past and how that's been sort of a really great outlet. But nowadays, what what does, you know, diving back into that creative world with your son? Like, what does that do for you? I don't know, because that's like asking me what breathing does. It's like so natural. It's just, that's what I do that is my purpose. It's like, it varies no choice in it. Even when I'm on a break. So let's say I create like this crazy big thing. And I'm like, absolutely burnt out and exhausted. How I go and relax is by creating something else in another format. And it's like, it's how it's just my brain just constant, my brain does not stop. And that's, it gets very exhausting sometimes. And so putting my brain to use is like, it's relaxing. Is that if that makes sense? Yeah. So like, yeah, it's it's a bit hard to answer your question. I find with myself. I mean, we have different there's this concept called the default mode network, which is basically, I mean, it's characterized using like ECGs and like understanding like brain waves, like different brain states like what like beta and alpha and stuff like that. And it's basically used to characterize the brain when you've got nothing to do. Yep. It's the the chatter. It's the the thoughts coming coming in and coming out and some thoughts coming in and sticking there and you paying attention to it. And then it becomes more stuff and it branches off. That's kind of what like the default map network is not is like. And I find that that experience and it's been shown in in the literature as well that that can be very, very stressful. And it does burn your energy stalls. And I find that having something particular to focus on, you know, like if I was to go through my day, it would be I wake up, I watch a video, I go to work, I focus on work, I finish work, I watch a video, I go to the gym, I come back, I do some work on my social media, I go to sleep. And it's like there's no space that I give myself in there to like, I guess just do nothing. And you know, for me, I think I think it can definitely if I keep going in that, that those stages, I mean, it helps me a lot to push aside how I'm feeling, like what I'm, you know, if I'm very, very depressed and I'm having a lot of depressive thoughts when I don't have anything to do, I will continue to do stuff like constantly and fill my diary with different things to do and it does sort of help me. And after a while, like maybe, you know, if I was to do that for two or three weeks, they will come to a point where my brain just starts like slowly winding down and shutting down. And I find that those those periods of time, you know, I have burnouts, so I struggle to do anything, like it's like my brain just decides that it wants to run a full like computer reset on on me. And I think, you know, one of the things that's been really helpful for me is, you know, when I'm at the gym, I try to think about nothing. I don't, I don't go on my phone, I don't watch social media. I just put on my music and I just kind of be in the moment and do that and not not try to do stuff. But I'm still doing something, but I'm not thinking I'm not using the energy. And also things like meditation, you know, meditation, it basically teaches you how to do nothing, like think about nothing, like avoid that default mode network, but also be able to do that that ignore that default mode. My god. It teaches you to do nothing without defaulting to that that state of force constantly going around in your head, some stuff, without you having to latch on to a task or to focus on something. And I find that really useful because I do definitely like yourself have a tendency to really hone in and focus on something. And, you know, that becomes my life. These these focuses that I have, that's like my life open to a point that I can't do it anymore. Yeah. And yeah, I definitely think like things like meditation and also, you know, yeah, sorry, go on, go for it. I can't help that. Do you ever get back to Thomas where like, your brain's got a it's a, it's a, it's a common you say it doesn't matter if there's a million people studying Michelin being sad. Let's say that for Matthew, that's what I get. I would like to also feel that. Yeah, conversational tempo. It's, um, then tends to be what with autism, you find it hard to find natural breaks in conversation. So you're like, you kind of, I learned to just blurt stuff out. Cause it's like, that's exactly what I do. Sorry. And then, then it's reset and then you can talk. It's kind of hurts to keep it in. So I was really lucky at university, but I had a tutor who let me ask questions all the time because my hand was just growing up all the time. He didn't mind it. It would have been an issue if exactly the same. But yeah, right. Okay. I came up with some responses and some things to say while you were talking. My brain kind of works on two separate levels. It's really, really weird. And it's always been there. Like, there's this level above my level. So Matthew's here. This is Matthew. I remember something above and it's always been there. I remember being a child and this part was thinking like an adult and it was going like, Oh, look at that. Look at that. Look at that. Well, I was just playing around and stuff and people would talk to me and I'd be like, Oh, is that what you mean? But then this part up here would be going, No, that's not what they mean. There's this going on and this going on and this going on. And as the years progressed, this thing above was always going on. No matter what, I could never ever shut it up. Alcohol, drugs and things. That was the only way of shutting it up. But when I got my diagnosis and everything started to coalesce and I started to understand things, I gave it a name and I called exactly. Yeah, I called it a Zach and I've made him a home to live in and he lives in an attic in my head and it's dark up there and it's massive. It's unbelievably massive and there's books on every single shelf. It's just a huge library of knowledge and things and he saw the spindly giant creature with the evil eyes and marches around and bangs and stuff. The metaphor that I've come up with how my brain works is there's a trap door in the attic that leads down, but it doesn't lead up. And so if Zach's in a good mood, he might give me inspiration all day. He might go, Oh, this idea is awesome. This idea is awesome. This idea is awesome. This idea is awesome. Or he might give me memories that I don't even remember having or he might tell me what people actually mean when they speak, not the words that they say, the words behind the words that they're saying, kind of like, kind of like your manifestation of your unconscious. That person over there is really, really worried about someone stealing something off them. Do you know what that means, Matthew? That means that they steal lots of things from other people because that's what they're scared of. And like, it does all this psychology. It drops it all down on me. So much information. But then there are days when Zach's bad and the only things he drops down, like images that I've seen from the past or horrible thoughts or like he whispers like, Oh, you're ugly today, Matthew. And just like stuff like just crazy stuff. And many might invent these horrific scenes and be like, Hey, Matthew, deal with this. But that's how my head works. And all this stuff has been dropped through the trap door. It's my job to keep getting out. Because when I don't, it just, that's when I get poorly, if that makes sense. So it's like, even there's only one time when it ever went quiet and like during COVID, when me and Callum spent a year writing our second album, because that's how long it takes. We don't spend a week writing or something. We spent a year. And at the end of it, I genuinely, it was the most exhausting thing that I've ever done. But for the first time in my life, that thing above me shut up. And it wasn't there. It disappeared for the first time ever. And it was like, I was trying to find this joy in creating things. I was trying to find this joy in life. I was trying to find this joy in anything. And it's just like everything had just disappeared and then no tricks appeared on the scene. And she like triggered it all coming back, which was really weird, like how she came in at that moment. But yeah, so that's how my head works. It kind of like, there's two layers to it. I don't know if you identify with that Thomas or not, but that's how it's always been. Like I don't have control. I mean, for me, I made a YouTube video, like two or three years ago, or like a post titled My Split Brain. And it was basically, it was kind of, you know, in my life, like I was always growing up, I kind of split myself into my logical brain and my emotional brain. Like, I think it was something to do with like, to find me because I just, it's, it's, it's like, when you relax, if I make it's kind of like, your thoughts and your emotions can be completely different constantly. And it's, and like the connection between the two is very, very muddied. And it takes a lot of work to find the connection between the two. And I definitely, I definitely found that when you, when you were talking about sort of thinking about this, this, this kind of unconscious entity that's like feeding you different thoughts and feeding you different emotions and, and memories and stuff. It reminds me very much of like the, the sports psychology book, the, the monkey mind or something like that. Oh yeah, I've heard about, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think, I think for us, it's, you know, that kind of experience because our brains are so different and we have such different experiences of like perceiving and thinking and feeling. It can be very, very useful sometimes to have like, you know, analogies like that. I definitely as, as I've sort of got older and have sort of understood for myself, like a lexifimia. And I, it's, it's, I found more ways to kind of find links between the two. And so I feel, I feel a lot more now, like myself, because I've integrated that emotional part of me. I used to be the thoughts, like I didn't identify the emotions at all. It was like, I had these thoughts, but my emotions are doing this. And I used to always think that and I think it did come to a point where I kind of, you know, I really wanted to explore the more emotional side of me because I was, I was one of those autistic people. I was like, I don't need friends. I don't need emotions. Emotions are a logical, I'm a logical creature. I can do everything and I'm better for, for not having these emotions. And I was just pushing me this emotional side of myself out. And it did kind of in the long run, you know, harm me. Like it was, it was good for me to actually understand a bit more about how I felt and why I felt things. And I think, you know, that, that, that feeling of having that, that split between my emotions and my thinking, it helped me sort of, to a certain extent, understand what was going on at the time. You know, now that I came across things like Alex if I'm here, it's helped me feel a little bit more whole. Like, it's just, you know, sometimes you feel stuff. And you know that you shouldn't feel stuff like, like, it doesn't make any sense to you. And it's like, sometimes you're right. It doesn't make any sense. It's completely logical. But sometimes it actually, you know, you're feeling that for a reason. So it's like, navigating that crazy, crazy, crazy thing took me years and years to try and come to that conclusion. But I think writing about it, learning about philosophy and psychology and my brain trying to explain it to other people really helped with that, with that kind of that weird feeling. Yeah, I get you. I understand. But yeah, it comes down to just creating things and getting it out and just exploring and learning. That's me that was right. Yeah. That's cool. Well, we have just nearly hit the 2015 minutes mark and we've got through two questions that are free. But I think quite we've had a good chat about like different aspects of creativity. We've talked about, you know, our different neurodiversities, how that's shaped our perception of the world, how creativity has been an outlet for, I guess, you know, providing us an outlet when there's nowhere else to go. I think, you know, creativity is an incredible thing. You know, it's something that I used to make fun of, like, artists and like, so if I was like, oh, it's just darling, we need code logic and stuff. And, you know, really, it's pretty much one of the best mediums for communicating human experience and emotions. I mean, I'm not really sure how to round this up because we've been chatting for so long. And we've had a lot of different sort of inputs from different neurodivergent crew pause and then we'll shoot off into the air. That's what we do. Yeah, it's been awesome. Thank you very much for having us on, Thomas. It's been really, really amazing. And I'm proud of every single one of the crew for how they've spoken today. Oh, yeah, you've all been incredibly open and vulnerable. And it's been really great to hear the experience of life from different perspectives. I mean, thank you. Thank you so much. And I'm sure the people who are listening and they'll really appreciate, you know, you guys being so open about this, you know, talking about mental health, talking about passions, talking about negative experiences in life. There's not enough platforms like this where people can actually just feel comfortable in like just talking about stuff that, you know, it's important to talk about. But sensationalist media, everyone's got to get stuff in 60 seconds. And it's like, no one sits through when, well, people do sit through, my listeners sit through. Just the more we talk about it, the more people learn, the more people accept, and that's our job. We just need to keep talking and talking and talking. Not now, though, because we've gone to two hours, 16 minutes in a minute in real life. Well, I guess what I wouldn't say is thank you. And as far as the song of the day, of course, we're going to stick that down in the song of the day playlist. The new, what is the name of the song? Go on, no tricks. Which is DAD, Autism, ADHD, Dyslexia. So Dadi for short. Dadi feet, D-A-A-D-Y. So if you guys out there want to listen to the song, how you recommend you do, you can find music suggestions from pretty much every single guest on season two. So go over to the Spotify link in the description. And while you there, please do give my podcast a rating. If you are on anything Spotify, Apple podcast, Google podcast, please give me a rating. Five-star variety would be very appreciated, but understand. Thank you very much for tuning in. And if you want to catch the podcast on YouTube, you'll be able to find the video version of this where you get to see all of our lovely faces talking. And yeah, make sure to go over to my Instagram at Thomas Henley to get updates on how the podcast is going, get updates on my life, the kind of work that I'm doing. I am starting at the moment a new business, starting my own business as a soul trader. I'm going to be doing autism coaching for autistic adults. So that's something that you're interested in. Go over to my website, Thomas Henley.co.uk. And I do realize that I'm shouting a lot of links at everybody. And yeah, I will definitely put down, if you guys can create like a group link tree, like everybody's links on it, that would be absolutely amazing. Oh, okay, cool. Yeah. So that link tree, along with my own, be down in the description, very, very close to the top. You'll be able to find all of the music and all of the social media sites and the websites and all of that stuff from our very lovely guests. And yeah, I really hope you have enjoyed this episode of the 40-odd podcast. Please let me know down in the comments what you think of having more than one guest on. Did you like it? Do you feel like it's a lot to process and to digest? Maybe something along those lines. Yeah. Guys, have you enjoyed your experience of the 40-odd podcast? Yes, it's been amazing. Thank you so much, Thomas. Yeah, it's been awesome. It's been really cool. Thank you so much. Thank you for having us and for such a safe atmosphere to share our thoughts. Yeah, you made us all very comfortable, clearly. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Well, with that, I hope you all have a very, very lovely day. And I'll see you on the next episode of the 40-odd podcast. See you later, guys. Thank you. Bye-bye. You can say, you can say bye in a group.