 How are those farmers farming sustainably more so preserving the soils in which they're farming in? Yes, so we do run we run programs nationally, so but in the Western Cape we have a long-standing initiative with the wine industry Welcome to the private property farming podcast My name is Mbali Nwokor your host every Tuesdays and Thursdays right here on the private property channel Thank you so much for joining us Wherever you're watching us that could be Facebook Instagram live YouTube or Twitter Keep following us on our social media pages because the podcast is right here for you We discuss all topics related to agriculture whether you're a farmer a professional in the agricultural industry Or just someone who just wants to hear about what farmers doing what this industry about is about I definitely know that the farming podcast is where you need to be Today's topic is all about soil health and regenerative agriculture quite interesting terms and They've been thrown around of late obviously with the words or terms such as climate change as well Sustainable farming and we're going to unpack some of these terms today with Shelly Fuller who is the program manager for WWF South Africa She's going to be joining us in a few seconds And she'll be explaining her role and what her organization does and we obviously going to impact tonight's topic with regards to soil health and regenerative Agriculture if you have any questions for our guests this evening please feel free to ask and we will respond accordingly with regards to your needs continue to like share and Tweet this podcast episode And let's get right into it and speak to Shelly. Thank you Shelly for joining us. How are you doing? Thanks, Mabali for having me Great great. So WWF what I know about it is a cute little panda as its logo Tell us about the organization and what does it do? So WWF is not the wrestling Federation, but yes, it's the worldwide fun for nature and Although our icon is a cute fluffy panda bear We are basically involved in over a hundred countries Trying to conserve nature and create a future where people and nature can thrive So in South Africa that is about conserving a variety of different species Not only the iconic rhinos and elephants, but also natural habitats that appears between Agricultural areas and so that's where I come in I run a program within our sustainable agriculture Portfolio and we work with fruit and wine farms in the Western Cape and the fruit farms, obviously Nationally and we work with these farmers because they're the stewards of the land, you know, they're the ones that are in charge of the Resources like the soil and the clean air and the and the clean water so that's really what we do we try and work with them and Recognize these farmers that are really doing playing their part to mitigate climate change and to make nature Still be around for future generations Yeah, so you're saying you're working with fruit and wine farmers down in the Eastern Cape and those are long-term crops How are those farmers farming sustainably more so preserving the soils in which they're farming in? Yes, so we do run we run programs Nationally so but in the Western Cape we have a long-standing initiative with the wine industry So that's the conservation champions program here on my emblem with the Cape sugarbird and the protea and But of course these farms they're not only producing They're not only having vineyards and producing grapes for wine. They also have fruit and annual crops and so what they do in terms of their practices needs to be Adopted across all of their different crop types and in terms of regenerative agriculture It's a it's a big word. It's it's quite a technical topic But basically it means you're restoring the soil particularly you're restoring the land You're putting back in more than you're using for your production And that's really the trend that we we're encouraging It's it's wonderful to see it's been adopted globally and the value of a healthy soil in terms of increasing your yield and Therefore your businesses, but also in terms of Returning the function back to the soil because without soil we will never have the food on our plates And we won't have a lot of the services that a healthy soil provides if you think of of water filtration of Absorbing the water in in the soil. It's a healthy structural soil Is the foundation of our survival really? Yeah, you mentioned When we're farming and so we have to put a lot more back in than we take out So what are the some of the elements or components required to make soil healthy, you know, typically we would think of Using compost, you know from a from a household version You put eggs shells you put banana peels any type of waste from fruits and vegetables Let it decompose for a couple of days or couple of weeks and then from that you can put back into the soil How do farmers work in this way putting more back into the soil, especially at commercial level? Yeah, well I gone other days where it was thought that kind of a bear Barren soil was a clean soil and the way to farm. I'm very grateful that, you know We've seen the use the adoption of cover crops So as soon as you start covering the soil again, you are helping to return some of those functions back So a bear barren soil will just be at risk for erosion and so some of the aspects are to try and Bring back that organic matter so that humus that compost like you mentioned So starting off by sowing cover crops a variety of different annual species and then Really actively actively returning the soil carbon and the organic matter back in to the soil And by doing that you actually obviously returning the nutrients and the the life back to the soil Which means that you you don't need those artificial fertilizers to get the same nutrients for your crops It takes some time to to return the life back to the soil after we've been, you know taking so much out and An a sterile soil is is obviously a long-term journey to return it back to something that's living But yes, so it's adding the humus back in It's adding the nitrogen fixing that that a lot of the cover crops and the the legumes provide it's a lot easier in in perennial Crops like orchids and vineyards that you then you have a longer term cycle to bring that back in But we're also seeing, you know with the annual crops wheat and and sugarcane less plowing a low tillage Really trying not to disturb the soil So when you're trying to bring the life back in you don't want to expose that to the sun and and other natural elements So it's it's there's been incredible science and and we we're not the leaders There are farmers out there teaching us a lot of a lot to be done but Yeah, South African farming the farming community is is always innovative and always trying to try new things and especially living through droughts and and Realizing how changing farming practices makes a huge difference on on that available resource And also with the input costs being so expensive, you know fertilizers are fossil fuel based So they go up when the diesel price goes up and it and it's becoming unaffordable Thankfully for us the environmentalists, but it's becoming unaffordable to be just relying on on Agrochemicals to keep the soil and the crop healthy Yeah, still on the topic of soil Shelly and how does one determine whether or not they've got good soil? There's a color change Is there a difference in texture? How does one know that you're actually farming in good soil as opposed to bad soil? so There's a variety of different aspects to this soil that you need to kind of assess so you look across the Biology the biological factors of the soil how it feels and and whether it's a clay kind of soil or a sandy soil So that's also the physical elements of it and then the chemical aspects. That's usually what people take Into a soil assessment or through the lab So I think the best way is really to just to take a sample and send it off to a lab where you can really see what the nutrient count is But also, I mean you can smell and see and see if the if there's roots if there's Hojas if there's worms if there's life in the soil And most of the farms. I mean this is this is the starting point of their businesses So they know What what's at stake and they know their soil and they land very well It's been going for generations and you really can smell and feel and and Know whether they're still life in that soil But to know exactly what you need to add back in you've got to measure it effectively and so so you do need some analyses to to be able to do that and But yeah, we basically are we trying to promote the fact that You can't look at anything in isolation Isolation so never just the chemical aspects of the soil, but what is the structure? What is the physical side of the soil? Is it too sandy? Do you need to add a little bit more humus to make it? Retain that nutrients and retain the water and so yeah, there's a number of different aspects But it's about bringing that life back Yeah, yeah, how exactly do you work with farmers in your program, right? It's the fruit and wine farmers Are you teaching them about soil conservation or are you? Predominantly working with the farmers just to get research in terms of how they farming what innovative practices are they using? Or are you bringing their knowledge to the fore so that they can adopt in their farming practices? So maybe if you could just outline for us what exactly you're the program that you're currently managing and overseeing What exactly does and how do you work with farmers on the ground? Okay, thank you So as We're a conservation organization But we realize that obviously a lot of the land in South Africa that has Conservation value or is really important for biodiversity or really important for water security for water sources Is in the hands of private and communally owned farmers? so We realized that we need to work in harmony with agriculture because it's the biggest impact on on biodiversity and and we Agriculture is one of the largest water users as well So obviously in a country like South Africa We need to be able to put food on the table and grow the economy But also make sure that there's enough of those natural resources To sustain and allow that future growth. So so we work across different industries so so my program is obviously fruit and wine and generally we work with the industry associations so we develop biodiversity guidelines or Mental standards that that the industry can adopt that are locally relevant and help them get access to market But but more than it more than anything What what drives my passion is working on a one-on-one basis with a lot of these farms and learning from them what they've been doing as I say they're very innovative and and quite often it's it's connecting the research with the practical example and getting that information out there, so we do try and share knowledge develop resources that can be used and and and Opportunities like this is the wonderful example, you know that there are there are always alternatives And there's there's lessons that that we can share to increase the adoption of regenerative practices And so that you unpack it a little bit And then also just to recognize those farms that are leading the way and so for example in the wine industry The wine farms that sign up with us. They commit to adhering to very high levels of environmental Conservation and the way they produce their wine is is in Harmony with nature as much as possible instead of fighting nature And so and then they're allowed to use the sugar bird logo on their wine to differentiate themselves in the market So they're different angles, but it really is trying to get the message out there unpack it the you know Big science words that don't always make sense But really provide practical examples and use the farmers voices to be able to share that as well Yeah, do you think the market cares about how the farmers are producing their wine like you mentioned, you know If a farmer is using very conservative agriculture practices, they get that sugar bird sticker Do you think consumers even know what the sugar bird sticker is because they'll just be buying wine and you know They drink with friends or something like that. So do you think the market really or consume you think the market or the market really cares about Regenerative agriculture and the way in which wine or fruits were produced. Okay, I Think the timing is right. I think maybe 10 years ago South African market was was you know buying on price point only and And there's a lot of stickers out there. There's a lot of labels Promoting organic and all sorts of things. And so I think there is a role to inform the consumer I think the trends these days the consumers want to use their purchase power and want to be able to support You know be part of the solution of helping to conserve the planet But it's critical that we inform the consumers that they know what the sugar bird and the protea means that they can trust What that logo is on the product Because ultimately obviously Price is a factor and you'll you'll choose what you know and what you what's familiar to you But if you suddenly aware that that a wine farm that you've anyway enjoy their product is also part of the conservation And then you might tell friends and those friends might tell other friends And that's and that's how we we raise the awareness and I think it's really important because there are so many farms out there that are doing incredible work and And they really are taking it very seriously their role in terms of conserving the planet and providing food for our tables and and really an important role in the economy as well for job security and And livelihoods so I think I think it's really critical that we are able to support these farmers and And kind of build the trust around that supply chain Absolutely. Well, it sounds amazing with the work that you're doing and I guess it's always interesting to work with various farmers You know farming different commodities and just seeing the different things that they doing on their farms to ensure that their farms are sustainable You know to keep their soil and good health my last question for you. Shelly before we let you go is Because you work for a global organization. How does that African farmers compared to those of the rest of the world especially when Farming or adopting new New innovative and farming practices like regenerative agriculture. That's a tricky question, but I appreciate it. So I think I Think because of the scale at which we operate, you know We quite fortunate in that we've got that blend between large-scale commercial production and and many layers smaller than that and And I think linking those two is really important, you know, there's there's the huge Local market which is is quite informal and and how do we bring those farms in and recognize them because they're farming Regeneratively, you know, and then it's not only those big commercial farmers that are that are that are gaining the recognition and the market access So I think South African farms. I mean we measure everything because Everything costs much, you know, so electricity is expensive for pumping your irrigation fertilizers are expensive So we we unfortunately don't have a lot of fertile soil in South Africa So we've got a long way to go to build that healthy soil back up again But there are farms that are doing it and seeing the returns and we're not talking only shifting to organic practices But we're just saying bringing back that life and making sure that you're able to produce enough crop to To make your business viable, but you're not taking everything all the health out of the out of the system And so I would say South African farms can teach the world a lot of different different aspects of how we I mean We farm in such a biodiverse Habitat, you know in the western Cape the wine farms are in the same area as the Cape floral Kingdom Which is the biodiversity hotspot in the world and so and and a lot of our natural area in South Africa There's farms right alongside it. So we are farming together with nature And I think that's really something that we should be proud of and we should celebrate and we should share those lessons So that we can get recognition and we can get more access in in the international space Awesome. Thank you so much for your time this evening. Shelly. I think the guests really appreciate it and I really appreciated the conversation and it's always interesting to see what other organizations are doing out there in the agriculture sector because we don't get to speak to Individuals like yourselves, you know, it's hard to access Professionals like yourselves because you're very busy But yeah, it's it's been a blessing to hear you share some knowledge and also put us Put South African farmers on the forefront, you know in comparison to those global farmers and Thank you also for unpacking the term regenerative agriculture in a very simple and easy to understand type of way and yeah, all the best with the projects that you're running and keep supporting the farmers and Yeah, thank you for your time Thank you for the opportunity Valley. Thanks very much. Take care Thank you. That was Shelly Fuller the program manager of WWF South Africa And our topic this evening was all about soil health and regenerative agriculture We unpacked both of the terms and Got to understand what shelly does with the wine and fruit farmers in the Western Cape If you missed this episode, you can catch catch it on YouTube on our private property YouTube channel under the farming podcast playlist Continue to like share and comment and please subscribe to our YouTube channel follow us on our social media platforms and Send your suggestions on what topics you would like us to cover right here on the farming podcast. That's it for me. Good night