 I lived in Ashland and a friend of mine, she wanted to go to school and I had never felt like I could go to college. When I went to my high school for, you know, counseling for what to do after you graduate, I was told a hairdresser or what was the other one, maybe a secretary or something that those are the fields I should pursue, nothing about, nothing, not college. So I didn't pursue college, I got pregnant when I was 21 and had a baby at 22. So anyway, anyway, I married and we, I lived with my ex-husband there until he finished grad school and then we moved over again, so, yeah, so, yeah, I had, you know, back then I didn't know, I couldn't, I didn't have to change my name to my husband's name, had no idea that women could keep their own last name. I went to the groups that Rosemary started and then I went to school or it was, I went to school and during that time I found the groups, but I might have been, might have been before, but anyway, I can't remember. You know, it was such word of mouth. I don't recall how I heard about it, but there was word of mouth and so I heard about it and decided I would check it out and it was just so eye-opening for me. I had, I mean, I was pretty clueless, so it was very eye-opening for me. I had no control over the money in our home and had no spending money, my husband was very controlling and so, you know, I was pretty much the housewife that pretty much asked him for everything, so, and I was pissed off about it, you know, under the surface, so I was pretty, pretty frustrated and angry and then figured out I went to college, I was shocked that I could actually even do anything in college, learn, but yeah, anyway, so yeah, it was good, it was amazing, yeah, well the one book, and I can take a picture of it and show you at home, I don't know if you can read it, that was highly influential in my life, she was somebody who wrote to my situation and so it was almost like I wasn't alone and so that was the one of the first books I read and my dear friend of mine gave it to me in 1978 and I just loved it, loved it, loved it, so and I've kept it all these years, I think it's out of print now, I think, but that was one of the biggest influential, it was one of the books that was my main and there was another one, something about, you know, our bodies being objectified, that whole thing was significant for me and I think I read books about it, but I couldn't tell you which ones, but it was highly significant for me, I helped organize, I wasn't, I'm not a good detail person, but I helped, I did organize a pornography workshop about women in objectification and so that was all, you know, that was a part of something I read about it and learned about it, that was something that was really important to me as well, because I'd been objectified, you know, on my life, it was something that I was interested in and felt that, I just, I think I just did it mainly for myself and I was so furious and angry and it was very small, I believe, I didn't know how to really get the word out very well, but it, you know, there were, there was a tendency of about maybe 20 people, I think, that's true, so anyway, so I did that and so that was interesting and helpful for me. My friend Anne, who is current, who died not years ago, she was very influential, Rosemary was, there was Jane Sigmund Seymour, something like that, well she wasn't really that influential, she was a friend. My friend Judy, who, you know, got me to go to register for school and then just other, but those are the main people I remember from being a majorly influenced in my life was Rosemary. Yeah, Betty Harbour, I don't remember, I know the name and I'm sure that if there was, you know, more jogging of memory, I would remember some things, but Karen Sallie, I met, see, I took a class, a psychology class and she taught it and then we met at a party, you know, Ashlyn's so small, back then we met at a gathering and we became friends and, you know, so much of it was, you know, her southern background or her southern accent and the way of being was very familiar to me. And so we used to do river trips and cross country ski trips and things like that together. So, and mainly, you know, so in terms of Karen, in terms of women's movement per se, I wouldn't necessarily say that was a huge influencer other than I learned, you know, I went kayaking and then cross country skiing and did lots of fun things with her. I was absolutely blown away. I was so shocked. I mean, I was really living fairly sheltered life. I had no idea that I had any power. It was just, you know, I had no idea. I had no conception of, you know, women, maybe part of what influences me as I took a women in history class. And that really excited me and was like mind boggling as well because it was like, oh, history's been written by white men. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, that's why there aren't as many women, we don't hear about women authors. That's why we don't hear, you know, I just was like, whoa, okay. So all of this stuff was so new to me that I was like, on a high. It was like, wow, wow, we do women are wonderful women. And I've always had a lot of deep relationships with women. My mother was always close with women. And so I've always had been really close with women. So and as a friend and so forth. So to be able to hear that and see that and then I became very angry. I was furious, furious that men, you know, just pissed off as how I just was just furious. Could not believe the oppression. And yeah, just how how little power I had and very little power in my relationship. And that really impacted my marriage in terms of the lot, the volatility and arguing and stuff. So but it was the group was just, oh, it was just so empowering and exciting for me to just hear all this stuff that women that we all shared. And it just couldn't, it was so surprising to me. Like I said, I had no idea I didn't have to change my name, my maiden name to my husband's, I just had not a clue. I was living in New York City at that time and not a clue. But I do remember after the abortion was legalized, and I had to go to the doctor and we didn't have much money, so I had to get a pap smear. So I went to a Planned Parenthood clinic. And I remember, I think there were a couple of signs out for people outside with signs, but I remember walking up to that and feeling like, wow, you can just walk into a place like this and feel safe. A lot of people, a lot of men and a lot of men would say I was very angry. They were right, but you know, I was a one pissed off woman. So and you know, I do I have this little thing here, I'll show it to you and then I can take a picture of it. You might want to, I don't know if you can see that. Let's see. So it was like a point for woman. What about us dedicated to my mom? Men is a word that everyone uses. What about us woman? We are used for our bodies and not for our facts. We don't have enough ANOF privileges and I don't think it's fair. Maybe some men do, but half the women in the world don't vote for ERA. So that was that one of the that came about partly because we had been driving in the car one day, this and she said to me, mom, why is it that dog is only man's best friend? And so I went on to explain to her, you know, that it's not true and so forth and so on. So evidently, you know, she was picking things up from me all the time. And when I read her stories, I would change the pronoun to she so that because after that, asking me that question, it was like, okay, we need to do something here. I mean, I think that she very comfortable as a woman in her own skin and knowing her own her own rights and her own value. She's, she's very, she's a very not a confrontational person, but she's a very direct person and a compassionate person. But she and she and her daughters too, it's like, they stand up, she will stand up for herself and call things out when she sees them. So yeah, she she she's a mom with two daughters. One is in college and one's fresh safe sophomore in high school. So and they're pretty, you know, again, it just goes grows grows. Sometimes I talked to them about it. I said, you know, your women couldn't run the Boston Marathon. And until 19, I can't remember if it was in the 80s, I think they would be young women off the course. It's like, holy cow. They first nothing in my high school for girls, plus sports, I think maybe volleyball. So it's yeah. It's exciting times. Yeah, I was just yeah, I was I was overjoyed and I felt powerful and excited. It was it was interesting because part of the women's movement influenced that that group and so forth. influenced the the jobs I took. One being I decided I didn't want to mage I was very interested and good with people and I wanted to do I was interested in psychology. But I didn't go that direction because I felt like it was a woman's field. And so I didn't want to be categorized in a woman's field. So I didn't go in that direction, which was really my strength. So then when I divorced my husband and moved to Eugene, Oregon, I had to support my daughter and a communication degree, you know, Eugene was actually in a decline population, people were leaving. But I read about women having power in sales positions. And that's how women gain power within companies was in sales. And so I got into sales and became very successful with that and so forth. So but yeah, but my path, that wasn't my love, I didn't like it, but I did it big and I needed to make money. Yeah, it was I was more involved in women's issues in particular, and gay, lesbian, lesbian relationships. And so that opened up another world to me, my friend, a friend of mine came out as gay. And it just became this eye openings. You know, yeah, that that there were lots of people suffering under that oppression. And it was really, it was really wonderful to know and understand and start being much more aware of just just life in general, my Lord, I grew up in Waco, Texas, give you the idea. I believe someone asked me if I would be interested. And so I decided that I would be interested. And so I interviewed, yeah, different women for different things that were of interest to me that I felt would be interested, interesting for women. So not particularly a theme, I would meet somebody or hear about a woman or a topic I would think about. And I would then usually I was someone I met, or there was something I had learned about that I felt like I needed to be shared. And so it would just be somebody that I, you know, met and thought, Oh, I'll interview you. So I planned, you know, like two weeks in advance, something like that, I would just it was, it was very, um, yeah, I wasn't something that was long thought out and long, you know, deep preparation. It was, I found something I wrote about my question, you know, questions and lists and so forth, found the person talked to them about what was it to expect, and then they would come on and we would talk. It was at the university in the I think it was the communication department where they had a sound studio and recording, I think it was the other radio, maybe the radio station part. And so I would go into this little sound booth thing, and have the woman, a woman would come in with me, and we would record it. And there was a lot them, there was a guy who edited the shows for me. So in other words, you know, if it to help segue and things like that, my motto that, you know, was don't think about it, just do it. So just do it. So each week, I would just have some other idea that came up and it was either through classes or women I met or again something that I was struggling with. You know, and the whole child care thing was, was I remember that being very significant and frustrated that people weren't concerned about it or even asking questions or talking about it. It was like, this is huge for women. And no one is talking about it. But that was very odd. Let's see. Astrology. Gosh, I don't remember how I found all these. Sheila dresser, dresser, dresser is someone I knew from who's there were four women who started Bloomberg books. And so I knew her. Yeah, I have no idea. There's a lot of topics. I don't know. Right around the time I became interested in understanding and knowing about women in inequality, it was it started, it was exploding. I mean, that was when everything was just, you know, women were going to college to go get degrees in law and do, you know, you know, doing all sorts of things pushing boundaries, realizing they could do other things. And so I just think that that was the time when things were just expanding rapidly, exponentially, just like boom, boom, boom. That was amazing. And I just think, yeah, I mean, it was a time I, you know, that wasn't the only group and you know, I mean, there were women all over the country meeting and discovering their power and making changes and, you know, protesting and talking about things together that we'd never talked about before. You know, even though I know there was the movement started before obviously before it was started in the 60s, I think, right, the women's movement. But the ERA thing that was a huge deal. And I think that one was trying to get that passed and put on the whatever I don't remember. Anyway, so that was a big deal. And yeah, I mean, I just think that the that moment in time, it's like, women were not going to turn back. It's like, this is it, buddy. This is it. This is, there's no going back. We know once we once you know, you can't not know. And so it just just gave me so much power, everyone, women, so much power. And I think, you know, men, I mean, I think that, you know, men had to deal with a lot of really, really angry women, rightfully so we were angry. But yeah.