 from the Bellagio Hotel in Las Vegas. It's theCUBE, covering UiPath. Forward 4, brought to you by UiPath. Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of UiPath. Forward 4, live from the Bellagio in Las Vegas. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante. We're here all day today and tomorrow. We're going to talk about process mining next. We've got two guests here. Mike Engel is here, Intelligent Automation and Process Intelligence Leader at PWC. And Ryan McBand, the SBP of Growth at UiPath. Gentlemen, welcome to the program. Thank you, Lisa. Thank you. So Ryan, I'm going to start with you. Talk to us about process mining. How does UiPath do it differently? And what are some of the things being unveiled at this event? Yeah, so look, I would tell you, it's actually more than process mining. And hopefully not only you, but others saw this this morning with Perom. It's really about the full capabilities of that discovery suite. And which obviously process mining is part of. But it starts with task capture. So going out and actually working with subject matter experts on a process, accounts payable, accounts receivable, order to cash. Digitally capturing that process or how they believe it should work or execute across one's environment, right, Mike? And then from there, actually validating or verifying with things or capabilities like process mining, giving you a full digital x-ray of actually how that process is being executed in the enterprise, showing you process bottlenecks for things like accounts payable, showing you days outstanding, maverick buying so that you can actually pinpoint and do a few things. Fix your process, right? Where a process should be fixed. Fix your application, because it's probably not doing what you think it is. And then third and where the value comes is in our platform of which process mining is a capability, our RPA platform, really moving directly to automations, right? And then having the ability with even task mining to drill into a specific bottleneck, capturing keystrokes, clicks, and then moving to with both of those, process mining and task mining into automation hub as part of our discovery platform as well. Being able to crowdsource, prioritize all of those potential, if you will, just capabilities of automations and saying, okay, let's go and prioritize these, these deliver the greatest value and executing across them. So as much as it's about process mining, it's actually the whole entire discovery suite of capabilities that differentiates UI path from other RPA vendors as the only RPA vendor that delivers process mining, task mining, and this discovery suite as part of our enterprise automation platform. Such a critical point, Ryan, right? I mean, it's multidimensional, right? It's not just one component to it. It's not just process mining or task mining. It's the combination that's really impactful. So I agree with you 100%. So one of the things that people who watch our shows know from like a broken record on this, the early days of RPA, I called it paving the cow path and that was good because somebody knew the process. They just repeat it. But the problem was the process wasn't necessarily the best process as you just described, right? So when you guys made the acquisition of process goal, they said, ah, okay, now I'm starting to connect the dots. And now, you know, a couple of years on we're starting to see that come together. And this is what I think is most misunderstood about UI path. And I wonder from a practitioner's perspective, if you can sort of fill in some of those gaps is that it's different from a point tool. It's different from a productivity tool. You know, like Power Automate, I'll just say it, that's running in Azure cloud. That's cool. Or a vertically integrated part of some ERP stack. It's a horizontal play that is end to end, which is a bigger automation agenda. It's bold, but it's potentially huge. $60 billion to am, I think that's understated. Maybe you could, from a practitioner's perspective, share with us kind of the old way and kind of the new way. Well, obviously we all made a lot of investments in this space early on to determine what should we be automating in the first place, right? I mean, we even went so far as we have platforms that will transcribe these kind of surveys and discussions that we're having with our clients, right? But at the end of the day, all we're learning is what they know about the process, what they as individuals know about the process. And that's problematic. Once we get into the kind of the next phase of actually developing something, we miss something, right? Because we're trying to do this rapidly. So I think what we have now is really this opportunity to have data-driven insights. And our clients are really grabbing onto that idea that it's good to have kind of a sense of what they think they do, but it's more important to have a sense of what they actually do, right? Are you seeing, in the last year and a half, we've seen the acceleration of a lot of things. There's some silver linings, but we've also seen the acceleration in automation as a mandate. Where is it in terms of a priority that you're seeing with customers? And are there any industries that you're seeing that are really leading the edge here? Well, I do see it as a priority, right? And of course, in the role that I have, obviously everybody I talk to, it's a priority for them. But I think it's kind of changing. People are understanding that it's not just a sense of, as Ryan was pointing out, it's not just a sense of getting an understanding of what we do today. It's really driving it to that next step of actually getting something impactful out the other end. And so clients are starting to understand that. And I like to categorize them, there's three types of clients, right? There's starters, there's stallers, and those that want to scale. And we're seeing a lot more on the other ends of this now, where clients are really getting started and they're getting a good sense that this is important for them because they know that identifying the opportunities in the first place is the most difficult part of automation. And that's what's stalling the programs. And then on the other end of the spectrum, we've got these clients that are saying, hey, I want to do this really at scale. It's going to help us do that. And it's quite a challenge. How do I build a pipeline of automations, right? So I've had success in finance and accounting. Fantastic. How do I take this to operations? How do I take this to supply chain? How do I take this to HR? And when I do that, it all starts with, as Wendy Batchelder, chief data officer at VM, or I would say, and as a customer, it starts with data, but more importantly, process, right? So focusing on process and where we can actually deliver automation. So it's not just about those insights, it's about moving from insights to actionable next steps. And that is where we're seeing this convergence, if you will, take place, as we've seen it many times before. I mentioned I worked at Cisco in the past. We saw this with VoiceOverIP converging on the network. We saw this at VMware, who I know you guys have spoken to multiple times, when it moved from a hypervisor to including NSX with the network, to including cloud management and also vSAN for storage and converging in software. We're seeing it too with process, really, and instead of kids in clipboards, as they used to call it, right, in many Six Sigma and Lean workshops with whiteboards and sticky papers to actually showing people within really days how a process is being executed within their organization and then suggesting here's where there's automation capabilities go execute against them. So Ryan, this is why sometimes I scoff at the TAM analysis. I get you got to do the TAM analysis, you have to communicate to Wall Street, but basically what you do is you pull out IDC or Gartner data, which is very stovepipe, and you kind of say, okay, we're in this market now. It's the convergence of these markets. It's cloud, it's containers, it's IS, pass, it's SaaS, it's blockchain, it's automation. They're all coming together to form this. It sounds like a buzzword, but it's digital matrix, if you will. And it's how well you leverage that digital matrix which defines your digital business. So talk about the role that automation, generally, RPA specifically, process mining specifically, play in a digital business. Do you want to take that mic or do you want me to take it? We can both do it, how about that? Yeah, perfect. Yeah, so I'll start with it. Right, I mean, it all is about convergence at this point. There are a number of platform providers out there, including UiPath, that are kind of teaching us that. And oftentimes we're led by the software vendors, right, in terms of how we think of it. But what we know is that there's no one solution. We went down the RPA path, lots of clients, and got a lot of excitement and a lot of impact. But if you really want to drive it broader, what clients are looking at now, it's what is the ecosystem of tools that we need to have in place to make that happen. And from my perspective, it's got to start with really process intelligence. Well, and I would say too, if you look at digital transformation, it was usually driven from an application, right? Really? And what I think customers found was that, hey, I'm going to name some folks here, put everything in SAP and we'll solve all your problems. Larry Ellison will tell you, put everything into Oracle and we'll solve all your problems. Salesforce, now I'm a sales person. I've never used an out of the box Salesforce dashboard in my life to run my business, because I want to run it the way I want to run it, right? Having said that though, they would say the same thing, put everything into our platform and we'll make sure that we can access it and you can use it everywhere and we'll solve all of your problems. I think what customers found is that that's not the case, right? So they said, okay, where are there other ways? Yes, I've got my application doing what it's doing. I've improved my process. But hang on, there's things that are repeatable here that I can remove to actually focus on higher level orders. And that's where UI path comes in. We've kind of had a bottoms up swell, but I would tell you that as we deliver ROI within days or weeks versus potentially years and with a heavy, heavy investment upfront, we're able to do it. We're able to then work with our partners like PwC to then demonstrate with business process modeling the ability to do it across all those, as I call silos of excellence in an organization to deliver true value in a timeline with integrated services from our partner to execute and deliver on ROI. So you mentioned some of the great software companies that have been created over the years. One you didn't mention, but I want you to comment on it is service now. Because essentially McDermott's trying to create the platform of platforms. It's all about workflow and service management. They bought an RPA company, hey, we got this too, but it's still a walled garden. It's still the same concept is put everything in here. So my question is, how are you different? Yeah, look, I mean, we're going to integrate with customers who want to integrate, right? Because we're an open platform and that's the right approach. We believe there will be some overlap and there'll be some choices to be made, right? Instead of that top down different approach, which may be a little bit heavy and large investment upfront with varied results as far as what that looks like. Ours is really kind of a bottoms up. And I would tell you too, if you look at our community, which is a million and a half, I believe strong now and growing, it's really about that practitioner and those people that have embraced it from the bottom up that really change how it gets implemented. And you don't have what I used to call is the white blood cells pushing back when you're trying to say, hey, let's take it from this finance and accounting to HR to supply chain to the other side to the organization saying, hey, look, be part of this instead of, no, you will do. Yeah, there's no, at least that I know of, there's no SAP or Salesforce freemium. You can't try it before you buy. And the entry price is way higher, right? I mean, generally, I mean, I guess Salesforce not necessarily, but I can get, I can taste automation for well under $100,000. I mean, I can get in for, I bet you most of your customers started at $25,000 or $50,000 departmental deployments. I mean, is that- It's exactly, bottoms up, grounds up. That's exactly right. And it's really that approach, which is much more like an Atlassian, I would tell you. And it's really getting to the point where we obviously, and I'm saying this, I work at UiPath, we make really good software. And so, you know, out of the box, it's getting easier and easier to use. It all integrates, which makes it seamless. The reason people moved to RPA first was because they got tired of bouncing between applications to do a task. Now we deliver this enterprise automation platform where you can go from process discovery to crowd sourcing and prioritizing your automations with your pipeline of automations into studio, into creating those automations, into testing them, and back again, right? We give you the opportunity not to leave the platform and extract the most value out of our, what we call enterprise automation platform, inclusive of process mining, inclusive of testing, and all those capabilities, document understanding, which is also mine, and it's fantastic. It's very differentiated from others that are out there. What's about having the right framework in place, right, from an automation perspective, right? And I think that's a little bit different from what you would expect from the SAPs of the world, so. Mike, where are you seeing, in the large organizations that you work with, we think of what you describe as the automation pipeline, where are some of the key priorities that you're finding in large organizations with what's in that pipeline and in what order? Yeah, no, it's interesting, because every time we have a conversation, whether it's internal or with our clients, we come up with another use case for this type of technology. Obviously, when we're having the initial conversations, what we're talking about is really automation, right? How do we stuff that pipe with automation? But we have clients that are just saying, hey, listen, I'm trying to carve out of a parent company, and what I need to do is document all of my processes in a meaningful way that I can, at some point, take action on, right? So there's meaningful outcomes. Whether it be a shared services organization that is looking to outsource all different types of use cases, so prioritizing is, I think, it's about impact, and the quickest way to impact seems to be automation. Is it fair to say, can I look at UiPath as automation infrastructure? Is that okay, or do you guys want to say, oh, we're an application? And the reason I ask, so then you get an answer, is if you look at the great infrastructure plays, they all had a role, the DBA, the CCIE, Cisco, the cloud architect, the VMware admin, you've been at all of them, Ryan, but so is there a role emerging here? And if it's not plumbing or infrastructure, I know, okay, that's cool, but of course, correct me on the infrastructure comment, and then is there a role emerging? You know, I think the difference between UiPath and some of the infrastructure companies is you used to take, Dave, years to give an ROI, right? Really, you'd invest in infrastructure, and it's like, if we build it, they will come. In fact, we've seen this with cloud where we kind of started doing some of that on-prem, right? And we can do this, but then you had Amazon, Azure, and others kind of take it, and just say, look, we can do it better, faster, and cheaper, it's that simple. And so I would say that we are an application, and we reference it as an enterprise automation platform, right? It's more than infrastructure. Now, are we going to, as I mentioned, integrate as an open platform to other capabilities? Absolutely, right? I think as you see with our investments, and as we continue to build this out, starting in core RPA, buying process gold, and getting into our discovery suite of capabilities I covered, getting into what I see next is, as you start launching many bots into your organization, you're touching multiple applications, so you got to test it. Anytime you would launch an application, you're going to test it before you go live, right? We see another convergence with testing, and I know you had Garrett on and Matt earlier, with testing, application testing, which has been a legacy kind of dinosaur market, converging with RPA, where you can deliver automations to do it better, faster, and cheaper. Thank you for that clarification, but now, Mike, is that role, I mean, I know roles are emerging in RPA and automation, but is there, I mean, we're seeing centers of excellence pop up, is there an analogy there, or sort of a similar? Yeah, I think the new role, if you will, it's not super new, but it's really that sense of an automation solution architect. It's a whole different thing. We're talking now more about recombinant innovations than we are about, you know, build it from scratch, right, because of the convergence of these low-code, no-code types of solutions, it's a different skill set. And we see it at PWC. I mean, you have somebody who is potentially a process expert, but then also somebody who understands automations, and it's the convergence of those two as well, that's a different skill set. It really is, and it's actually bringing those together to get the most value, and we see this across multiple organizations. It starts with the COE, we've done great with our community, right, so we have that upswell going, and then people are saying, hang on, I understand process, but I also understand automations. Let me put the two together, and that's where we get our true value, bringing real names. And you have the education and training, and that's a really huge thing. The traditional components of it still need to exist, but I think there are new roles that are emerging, for sure. Well, that's a big cultural shift. Oh, absolutely. How do you guys, how does PWC and UI path, maybe you each can answer this in the last minute or so, how do you help facilitate that cultural shift in a business that's growing at a warp speed in a market that is very tumultuous? How do you do that? Yeah, I'll go first, or I can go. I'll go ahead and go first. It's working with great partners like Mike, because they see it, and they're converging two different practices within their organization to actually bring this value to customers, and also that executive relevance. But even on our side, when we're meeting with customers just in general, we're actually talking about how do we deal with, there's what, 13 and a half million job openings, I guess, right now, and there's 8,500 people that are unemployed is the last number that I heard. We couldn't even fill all those jobs if we wanted to, right, so it's like, okay, what is it that we could potentially automate so maybe we don't need all those jobs, right? And that's not a negative, it's just saying we couldn't fill them anyway, right? So let's focus on where we can, and where we there again can extract the most value in working with our partners, but create this new domain that's not networking or virtualization, but it's actually potentially process and automation, it's testing and automation, it might even be security and automation, which I will tell you is probably coming next, having come out of the security space. You know, I sit there and listen to all these threats, and I see these people chasing really automated threats, and it's like, guys, a threat hunter that's really good goes through the same 15 steps that they would when they're chasing a false positive as if a bot would do that for them. I mean, I've written about the productivity declines over the past several decades in Western countries. It's not universal around the world. And maybe we have a productivity boost because of COVID, but it's like this perpetual workday now, that's not sustainable. So we're not going to be able to solve the world's great problems, whether it's climate change, diversity, massive debts, on and on and on, unless we deal with that labor gap. And the only way to do that is automation. It's so clear to me that that's the answer. Part of the answer. It is part of the answer. And I think to your point, they say it's a cultural shift that's going to happen whether we want it to or not. When you think about people that are coming into the workforce, it's an expectation now. So if you want to retain or, you know, attract and retain the right people, you better be prepared for it as an organization. Yeah, I mean, remember the old, proficient in word and Excel makes it trivial, right? I mean, it's trivial compared to that. And I think if you don't have automation chops going forward, it's going to be an issue. Hey, we have whatever, 5,000 bots running in our company. How could you help? Right, huh? What's a bot? That's right. Yeah, you're right. And we see this too. I'll give you an example with Cisco. You know, one of their financial analysts, Jr., started, he says part of our training program is creating automations. Why? Because it's not just about finance anymore. It's about what can I automate in my role to actually focus on higher level orders? And this for me is just amazing, right? And you know, it's Rajiv Ramaswamy's son who's over there at Cisco. Yeah, right. He's a financial analyst. I was sitting on my couch on a Saturday, no kidding, right, David? I get a text from Rajiv who's now CEO at Nutanix and he says, I can't believe I just created a bot. And I said, I'm at the right place, really. That's cool. I mean, hey, you're right too. I mean, you want to work for Amazon, you got to know how to provision an EC2 instance, or you don't get the job. Yeah, you got to train for that. And these are the types of skills that are expected. That's right. Awesome, guys. I'm glad I'm older. I have no expectations. Are you no longer proficient in word is the question. Guys, thanks for joining us, talking about what you guys are doing together, how you're really facilitating this massive growth trajectory. It's great to be back in person and we look forward to hearing from some of your customers later today. Terrific, great. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for having us. Thank you guys. Our pleasure. For Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live from the Bellagio in Las Vegas at UI Path Forward 4. Stick around, we'll be back after a short break.