 Welcome to Rational Alchemy. Welcome to the table. Except today we're doing Rational Music. And I'm joined at the table by Roger DiNardi. Roger, welcome to the table. Thanks for having me on. We're going to talk about Roger's music today and we're going to talk about twelve notes for seven stories. Roger, give us a little bit behind the LP that you are creating. Well, it's a seven track or it's a concept album based on the idea that there's only seven stories that have ever been written and there's only twelve notes in music. And I wrote it at a time when I was really, really in a tough spot and I decided to make an album that tried to speak to everyone. So the idea that there was only seven stories for people to ever live through really I thought would be a good place to start. Where did the idea of the concept come from? What sort of triggered it? So I had always been a musician in the part time and I had always wanted to make an album but it was just like everyone else. You put it off and you put it off and it's second best. And then after COVID I lost a good chunk of hearing and I developed Terrible Tinnitus and I no longer had I could no longer listen to music and for me, for me that was the end of the world. I had always said I would rather be blind than deaf and I couldn't even speak to people. I couldn't comprehend what they were saying. So things were pretty bad. Music had gotten me through some really hard times in my previous part of life and to lose that I might as well be done. I decided if I was done how I would feel like a failure and I decided it was that I had never made an album and it was a tough time for everyone. We all remember 2020 and 2021 it's like you know no matter what's happening no matter what you're going through according to this there's only seven stories ever written so it's going to be one of these and I decided that the most important thing now is to make an album and that was no distractions, no nothing because it had become that or nothing. So I slowly listened to music and I just increased it by just a decibel a day because it was almost like a stroke victim relearning how to hear. I just decided I would relearn how to hear music no matter how painful it was no matter what it was and that was what I was going to do. It is so hard for me to understand the concept because I've never had that sort of issue with my hearing. Oh yeah. And I really stand back and appreciate what you were able to do. It must have been hard. Yeah and so hidden. Other people don't always know what's going on you're just kind of an idiot who can't understand the basic directions down the hall and to the left. So there was also like yeah and to have lost the idea of mixing and doing my own album with the ringing because I would never know if it was there. Interesting. Now through the opening titles of the show we were listening to Voyage in Return. Yes. So tell us a little bit about that particular song. So during this time as I was doing the recovery I actually discovered Alan Watts and a lot of his recordings spoke to me and one thing he says is we like to say life is a journey not a destination but even that's not right. That's the idea that you're moving toward this and towards that and then you'll achieve this and then I'll be happy and whatever whatever and no actually it's dancing. And dancing you're not trying to get to a certain spot on the floor. You're not trying to like you know you're just going in a great big circle you're going to be born you're going to die you're going to be dirty again. We're going to be paying taxes. This whole thing is a voyage and we are what are genetics and all that make us and our previous experiences and how we see the world. So there's a line in there to journey eyes wide open. You can see things the way you see things and if you think of us all as just the universe's nerves or sensors or taste buds maybe this time you're just a bud that tastes things sour and you'd be like how come I'm the only one that tastes things so sour or so sweet or whatever. You see how you see and so be here you're alive so you're valid and observe the world the way you observe it and you're going back. Well that's the thing people will look at art for instance whether it be music or whether it be fine art or whatever kind of art it is someone will love something someone will hate exactly the same thing. And then you've got people in the middle and you know it all depends on how you're wired. Yeah that's what makes it so great. That's what makes it so great. Yes. It's no difference with food or any other art or painting it's like that's awful it's like really it inspires me. Yeah to me that's the whole purpose you know like yeah I like hearing people's feedback but actually a lot of times enjoy like when people didn't like it because they go that means I did a really good job of that style you've decided you haven't like so many people are like I'm this genre or that genre or this genre and it's fine I enjoy that. The thing I liked about Voyage and Return was the way that you kept building. Right. It was very cleverly done because you kept building and building and building and then you'd add little things in the background. Yes. Yeah. I'm dying to hear this at home with my headphones to be honest with you. Yes yes exactly there's most of the songs have some what they like to call ear candy. Yes. But early when I first discovered music those older recordings of 70s and some of the 80s those 70s recordings with the with the sonic landscapes that would be that would be placed it's you're absorbed into it a whole other world and you know and that had to be in there. That is true and what was so fascinating about the music of the 70s was how they put it together in the studios because they had such archaic equipment. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like today where you can literally do everything on your computer if you wish. Yeah. Yeah. Until you want to do that one thing that they did because like you'll be like how did they get that sound? How did they do it? How did they do it? You'll read articles you'll obsess about it. I actually researched like the old electronics to rebuild some of their their like pedals and anyway you get into it and finally it's like something I found out about the Abbey Road like double tape and it's like oh actually there was like five technicians varying the voltage straight from the wall. That's it. While one's looping and another's looping it's like well how am I gonna do that you know but then you know you try to do your best and that's like but it's no different than choosing a color you know like people like sometimes will criticize that and then I don't. I it's like how did Leonardo get da Vinci get that blue you know how did he mix that you know like how do you get that shade and so like when you think of music sounds as colors and textures then it's uh it becomes such a fun path to how what is that sound making that that beautiful sound. That's correct. Yeah and you get to get absorbed into another realm where only the beat matters. I'll never forget watching the documentary about Pink Floyd putting together Dark Side of the Moon at the end of them it was all five of them the engineer and the four Pink Floyd members all mixing simultaneously. Yeah. It was the only way they could do it. Right right right there's no volume there was no nothing like that at all they had to do the whole thing manually. Yeah. That's what made the whole thing such a masterpiece of course. I watched Neil Young not to get too often to music tech and everything but I watched Neil Young interview and he said oh the the first rough mix was always the best because the tape the particles would actually start like fizzing down the first mix on the day of the cut on the night of the cut was to him always the best to him it was the other one that always captured it that makes a lot of sense now the second thing that we're going to listen to is is Rags to Riches Yeah. Before we listen to it why don't you give us a little bit of the history of Rags to Riches so Rags to Riches for me it's a we'd like to think of it as money but there's so many more things than riches and so I wrote this song it's dedicated to the people in my life who even though there's been many there's been many bad there's been many goods and I've always prided myself on being able to tell and really know who to who to keep close and like and you know sometimes it seems like you're only surrounded by people who might not be the best but if you really look and you'll you'll know a diamond you can find one in this well we had we will have yeah we'll be coming out of a quest and they discovered their treasure at the end by doing their voyage I'm intrigued because I loved as soon as I heard the opening the opening of voyage and return I was in love with the song already so I'm dying now to hear Rags to Riches so let's listen to let's listen to the song thank you for the CIA don't know much about the dolly mama religion or God don't know much about quantum physics but that's probably not all and it's not shine it's a bright I know a diamond when I find one you can tell when you hold it tight we'll make love the song the song to see it shines just fine with me medicine or don't know why leave behind all my follow through don't know much about Wall Street lobbyist or bureaucrats for some very strange reason the way the song opened very much reminded me a little bit there of a couple of John Lennon songs yeah yeah for sure he was yeah that was definitely I hope I'm not insulting you no no that's a huge compliment I love I love getting comparisons it's terrific it was just it was so clever the way that you you made that first transition yeah his post his post Beatles was so so raw and that's what I really wanted it to be I wanted it I didn't want it to sound real processed and done it's supposed to be really heartfelt and that's just that's just kind of how the chords sounded best actually it's been through a few alterations but I worked in my my uncle's daily he's he's gone early COVID also but I he's someone that changed my life so I really really wanted to include that and it just really lent itself to that rhythm and that backbeat it just worked didn't it yeah that backbeat like yeah that Lennon however you want to put it into words and the other thing I picked up fairly quickly was you got a little bit of humor in there as well don't you I could hear you sort of slipping oh yeah yeah yeah I got a gong on the word kung fu and like yeah yeah it was supposed to be you know a big wet sloppy kiss of a song it's how I described it to my engineer oh I like that yeah and the ooze and odds actually I can't say enough I've been working with Cinder Sound they're a local studio here they're amazing and then Kyle he's he's my engineer and he helped me out with that and I can't say enough he's amazing um so we did that and I really wanted to work in my uncle's ukulele we we weren't allowed to listen to rock music growing up and oh why not we were extremely extremely religious oh yeah yeah yes we weren't allowed to have dice in the house because someone could see you might be gambling so like yeah it was pretty rough we won't do the sob story too long we didn't have much of secular music at all like once I heard heard it through the grapevine and Burger King and I lost my mind I was dancing around um yeah the rock and roll was bad the demon is in you all that hellfire brimstone anyway was it really heard it for I heard it for the grapevine was that really the song that was for Christmas we'd see him every few years and all of a sudden he would play some of these pop tunes again Beatles 60s 70s whatever and I had never heard anything like that as far as I knew he had wrote them so that was where I got that first little planted seed of like there's a different life out there um to answer your earlier question the song that changed my life one day I'm digging through my life and it says the best of the guess who and so I put some headphones on and I got a my secret tape player and I put it on and it's the original version with the little blues even out American woman gonna mess your mind American woman and then it breaks into that that that that that that that that that that that that that and that guitar that guitar riff like oh my goodness and it my mind exploded like I was low in my room and I'm just like jumping around with a tennis look at this I'm jumping around I'm jumping around with a tennis racket and I'm just like whoa and I listen to that whole you know best of which I'm actually not a fan of I like concept albums but I've been talking about and like these these concepts and and just the raw feel and so that song was where this is this is truth like there isn't like that guitar solo at the beginning which I hear he actually destroyed an amp every time they took a take because he's actually plugging the output of one into another and it's like well you buy two whatever amps and blow one up so like okay you know there's just that that truth like there's there's no lying here you know there's you can hear that this is what these people are feeling this is what it is and you know wow and that was there was no looking back how do you how do you look back after that absolutely everything else your potential doesn't matter much right it's we don't we don't measure weight lifters by measuring their biceps and like whatever and say okay you're this age and blah blah blah you've got the most potential to lift so you win that's not how it works that's not how it works no you gotta go over there and you gotta lift it so it's what it takes to stop you and so yeah there's been times I've been pretty slowed down but every time it's like is this what's gonna stop me right so yeah when you're actually writing the song have you thought of the whole song all the way through or or do you just sort of build upon it and build upon it and then go how the heck am I gonna end it oh yeah yes and no it's similar but it's more simultaneous and nebulous than that I've been with a song about every day to every other day it sounds ridiculous but a little bird flies over and drops them into my head half the time I don't even like them like oh man this is annoying but everything I see and hear rhythm and melodies and just about everything I do and even just throughout the day or a little phrase will just pop into your head and it won't get out and it kind of sings itself with a little melody and while that's happening a lot of times it'll be a piano or a guitar that's kind of in your mind and you can start really processing it and I tend to write in the middle and then out or a key line and backwards because yeah it becomes more life-like and you can do that and then you run into your own limits you know I don't consider myself a virtuoso I tongue-in-cheek joke actually not even tongue-in-cheek I try to be the best mediocre musician I can be so like you know there's nothing I do hold on hold on hold on having heard your music I don't think you can actually use the word mediocre thank you thank you I challenge you there is not a part in there that no person could not play with six months of practice doesn't matter it doesn't matter because you came up with it exactly exactly because well and anything worth doing is worth doing poorly I've never heard that yeah in music world and in art I mean it doesn't apply to you always do your best but you can get into the sickness of like I don't have the perfect whatever or I don't have a good enough guitar or I don't have a good enough amplifier I don't have the right and you know what now it's time to say that phrase like if you have every detail is going to bother you and it is going to be the best yeah then you know what sometimes if it's worth doing it's worth doing poorly so like it became making this album is what's going to do it and if this is how good I can play right then this is what's on there because otherwise am I going to let am I going to practice for a year and then do it and that's how we had in that trap before agreed the next song we're going to listen to is tragedy yes tell us a little bit this was one of the hardest songs I wrote on the album this is really the heart of my message and what caused a lot of this again for me losing my hearing was my absolute nightmare I literally just was a puddle in a corner just crying I can imagine yeah it was yeah I woke up I went to sleep I woke up every day like so sad that I woke up I was really ready to be done and I had to write and I had to realization that hey this is this is one of the seven stories like this this deserves and I it was tempting to make a pop song like tragedy and overcoming and blah blah blah but like no like sadness sadness is real like that's a real story some people have very sad lives and to like skip that wouldn't have been very honest and so I wrote this and it's actually about my hearing loss but again I tried to take what made it about me and tried to take that out at the end so when you ask how I write a lot of times I'll use personal experiences and then you yank every I me everything that says like what day it was or you know take it all out and then and leave it leave it for everyone because now it's everyone's story again it's the filter version of your experience so I had to write so you know it's not just about whining and wallowing in your in your illness or your or your diagnosis you know I've gone through a lot of mental health issues and you know it's so easy to fall into I'm a blah blah blah or I'm a this or that and whatever and well now I'm deaf and I can't do it and again is this what's going to stop me so I didn't want it to be whining so I tried to write a fun to listen to song now there there is an oxymoron if ever I heard one well because yeah it's real it's real it's also temporary possibly yes but like you know you gotta you gotta do it so let's listen to tragedy you have got some very interesting transitions there thank you that was clever because it started off in the first couple of bars I thought oh here we go deep and dark and depressing exactly and all of a sudden you slammed the door in my face thank you very much and took it up a notch right yeah yeah yeah well it was yeah it was that was the point like this feeling is here and intended for the song but also let's not just sit and cry you know like you know yeah yeah again a fun to listen to song about wishing things were over about tragedy yeah yeah like we all feel this way like this happens to everyone in you know it's that was that was the core and you know it's alright we got a little I still get choked up about that one I can understand that because I mean that really is the one that's probably the song that's closest to you yeah is that right yeah for sure yeah that's the core of the album you know like no matter what it is like and it's been I've had friends in my life and you know we all have and we all would say the same thing hey man no matter what it was you needed I would have given it to you or you know anything you could have just moved here anything I'd have driven across the world or across the country I'd have done anything like we all for many of us have felt that and when when I was at that point it was why am I not willing to do that and and so like to anyone out there feeling that way um oh and doing this and writing this song and powering through it I'm starting to meet the most wonderful people and that I never would have met if I just right had sat and cried about it like if we didn't kind of like not so much joke about it but like yeah yeah stiff upper lip and go for it yeah yeah say how you feel anyone who's feeling that way like don't don't do that no you know take that one dream that one dream that you have make it the most important and just just see what happens before you like do one more try go down swinging you know don't give up so yeah it wasn't going to be a cry fest the whole time now you may find this next statement from me a little strange but I really mean it it was a pleasure to listen to music where I could understand the damn lyrics without reading an LP cover oh thank you that is two things one the lyrics were really important to me again I don't consider myself a virtuoso singer so I wanted to make but that wasn't the point I wanted to make a song in an album that almost anyone could sing along too you know so like again we're leaning into that every person thing and then also I can't give I've already given credit to cinder sound but the help that I get from my engineer Kyle Donovan at cinder sound has like he's he's helped me with my he's layered with my hearing loss I actually can hear vocals very well here and coming from the age they come from you know from everything from you know Kurt Cobain and whatever mumble mumble mumble but it's and that was okay that was you know putting your own stuff on it but I feel like it's time now or it's time to start saying something again I agree and not something like specific like you know I went to the store on Tuesday and I got blah blah blah and I drive up like no no no like actually like let's start having artistic statements again and it takes a lot of bravery to not just sing about you know drinking the night now Roger before we close I know you're halfway through producing the new song before we can even listen to it yeah yeah which I think is terribly unfair well you have to listen to the album when it's released oh you don't think I won't be yeah Rebirth is coming after tragedy you know first you'll be reborn and then I'll even do another teaser then we overcome the monster so Rebirth is it starts out with some social media noises and I went through a real problem I had to I actually disappeared for many many years I I struggle with that it's really hard for me and but I had a realization when I was trying to write Rebirth is you know who is being reborn right now and where is it happening and I forget what influencer it was but it didn't really matter there was this girl actually it was a girl in the park she was taking pictures and I noticed she was like putting things and she was younger and she was like putting products in she was taking them in the park and I was trapped in a small little town and if social media existed at the time well it's fun to demonize it and it's easy and it does have its problems this is where you can just move to another town and suddenly be a different person you know for the family they're like there will be a day where they'll find it and they will not be happy it will crush them and I had to overcome that and so well it looks like they might just be taking selfies and doing stuff and a lot of them are there's actually people who are just trying to get out of some of the most awful situations you can possibly imagine and so it can be used for good and evil and it can be a lot of things but I really felt like and I had to do it in a very like classic rock style cause I really like the idea of how some of our people who grew up and listening to 70s music you know which was way before my time and grew up listening to music now it's really fun to write a classic version on observance on a positive observance of a new thing that many aren't getting and I really wanted to put a positive twist on how it's not that much different than that person we used to honor that was going around selling CDs out of their car or selling art and like there is an admiration to many people that are doing a lot of things and yeah and respect them and they're probably more vulnerable than you might realize and you know so this is some people's way of escaping and being completely reborn like Marilyn Monroe who moved from a small town to a very star that you pick that was one of the best songs ever written goodbye Norma Jean yeah exactly John that's a brilliant song anyway yeah exactly like she like look at the life she led because she decided to be reborn through media well sure it's scary that it's a phone and it might be AI and blah blah blah and those are all very serious things that do need to be considered but also like there is truth somewhere in there and honor that it's going to be put to bed we are moving very quickly on getting it done by the end of the year that was my goal there's three songs left there's a surprise might be a surprise ending I'll leave that out after this we have Overcoming the Monster because after you're reborn you're going to run into probably the same old thing you ran into before because any of us that have tried to relocate in our lives what do you know you end up doing the same thing again so next is and then we'll have some comedy and then I may be surprise ending excellent excellent Roger thank you so much for coming in thank you for having me this is so much fun talking about this I am so so so happily surprised at the quality the clarity the built in humor and your music skills are second to none thank you I know you kept saying mediocre let me say this bullshit thank you there isn't a moment that I thank you so much for coming in that absolute pleasure working with you and talking to you I hope when this is finished let's come back in the studio yeah let's do part two oh that would be great wouldn't that be great that would be terrific excellent thank you thank you once again for joining me here at the table I'm Nigel Aves your host this is rational alchemy though this time it was definitely rational music what was it musical alchemy I'm not quite sure anyway thank you for joining us bye for now shine