 Thank you. Thank you to our staff administrators for helping us set things up today as they leave the room. I get to thank them. This is unusual. And thank you all for coming as well this evening. A special thanks to our speaker. We are very happy to be able to welcome you here tonight. And I'm very happy to see that there's a nice turnout in the room for the first week of term. So I hope this will set the tone for people focusing hard on their work in the area of South and Southeast Asian art over the coming term. So, I'm sure it doesn't need an introduction for many of you. I'll give a very brief one. She, as I understand it, spent her career between two different places, one that sent us research institution in Paris and then also in a teaching position at the Free University in Brussels. So she has focused primarily on South Asian materials Bihar, Bengal, Bangladesh as many of you know, no doubt, but has also looked at the relations with Southeast Asian materials. And we'll be hearing some of that this evening. What we won't be hearing about perhaps as in detail is the very developed work that she's done on the Crown Buddha also looking very intensively at Burma and on the specific work that she has done on Pagan itself. So as you will notice, I'm focusing on the Southeast Asia materials because, of course, this is a talk within the Southeast Asian Art Academic Program series with the Center for Southeast Asian Studies. So we are very keen to take over from South Asian dominance of the field of art history. And this is also something that I think is of interest to all of us. It's quite rare, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that it's quite rare that one looks at Southeast Asian materials as a means of understanding South Asian materials for historical reasons way back when, as well as not so long ago, we often look the other way. How can we learn about Southeast Asian art by using the South Asian models? And of course, there's much more extensive research on South Asian models than there is on Southeast Asian materials. So this has certainly skewed the field for the likes of myself and many of us in the room, I think, for the life of Southeast Asian art history. And it's very nice for us to see another approach also from someone who begins as a South Asianist. So I hope this will be of interest to all of you. I'm very much looking forward to the talk. And perhaps I'll leave it that we have about 45 minutes or so. Is that you can go on for longer if you like. No, I don't think I will not. I'm not expecting that you can do more than 45 or 15 minutes. I don't know. I have five pages. I'm in 44 slides. I usually don't read the text. It's just there, but I don't read. So we'll see how it goes. Yes. But we will have time for questions afterwards. So please hold your fire during the talk. Take your notes and be prepared to ask questions afterwards. And that's for me at least often part of the exciting moment in our talks here is to bring out all the different perspectives from our audience, which is quite varied in terms of national background, educational background, disciplinary expertise. So that's, I hope will be exciting as well. So thank you, Claudine again, and thank you all for helping me to welcome Claudine with us today. Well, I'm thanking you and your colleagues who arranged my coming here today. As Professor Thompson just said, in fact, my field of research, main field, initial field of research was Eastern, so-called Eastern India, meaning Bihar, Bengal and Bangladesh. And as she also reminded just a minute ago, when you usually look at this part and see what is the influence coming from this part of the South Asian subcontinent to Southeast Asia. I will concentrate on period going from the 11th to the end of the 12th century, even 13th century. And asking what do you have in, I have to start from South Asia. So this is the area with which we are dealing. So Eastern India, 11th, 12th century is a major period, a major area for the development of Buddhism in this so-called Vajrayana form. We know that relations were very much intensive with various parts of Southeast Asia, with part with Tibet, with China, with also other part of India. I removed the arrow, which I had also arrows coming to various parts of India of monks who traveled to Bihar, Bengal. So this is, this was really the center of the Buddhist world at that time. One must know it. So I'm very much sorry that this is so dark, but it's not an area of darkness, as some writer wrote a long time ago. This is the map of Eastern India and normally it's green. It should be green. What I want to show on this map is an upper domain region in this 11th, 12th century period, which you are very much active in the field of Buddhist art. You have one main region, which is the one on the north, which goes from Bihar on your left to north Bengal. You have various different sites. Monasteries, the main site is of course Bodhgaya, the place where Shakyamuni became a Buddha. You have then at that period major sites like Nalanda. I cannot stand because if I stand, the camera is not taking me and that is real. So may I do it? So you have here Bodhgaya, there you have Nalanda. On the Ganga you have the site of Vikramashila, another major Buddhist monasteries. Going further to the east you have the arrow shown Jagadala, which is a monastery built at the end of 11th century. The two other sites are earlier sites, Parapura and Mahasangar. Mahasangar going back to much earlier period. So this is one major area for the development of this Buddhism and the inheritance of this Buddhism went mainly to Tibet. Then you have another area, which is in South Bengal, which is the area shown here. This one major site which is Vikramapura. Vikramapura is practically the old Dhaka, its source of Dhaka. In fact, it's a major site which had a number of relationships with Southeast Asia. And the first character whom we can relate from the region of Vikramapura with Southeast Asia and probably with South Sumatra is Atisha. Atisha, we know him from Tibetan sources, but Atisha, the tradition says that he was from a royal family, but anyway the tradition says also that he was from Vikramapura. And what we know is that he spent 14 years in a monastery probably in South Sumatra, anyway in Indonesia. Then came back to India, became the chief abbot of Vikramasila and then went to Tibet. So this is one major monk, probably a pig of the iceberg. There must have been hundreds of monks traveling. And their name is just to be anonymous. Another major monk who should meet also mentioned and who lived one century later is a Kashmiri monk who lived very old as you can see, Shakyashvibhadra. And he's very important. We will come with his name more than one time during this lecture. Although he never went to Southeast Asia, he came to Bihar. He became the chaplain of the king in a place called Jayanagara. And there is a village called Jayanagara in the city of Lakissarai. This is where the arrow is showing. Lakissarai is today a conglomerate of different villages, like a small town with a main railway station. It's a site which is known since the 19th century where many, many major images of Vajrayana tendency have been discovered. But unfortunately the excavations only started some years ago, which means that for 100 years the site has been looted. Many images have been collected in the 19th century. We will see some of them, some are in Calcutta, some are in Patna, some are in Berlin, some are in St. Petersburg. Shakyashvibhadra, after becoming the chief abbot of Nalanda and Vikramashila, left with his monks to Jagadala, Norsvengal, the other arrow. And from there he left for Tibet. And from there at the end of his life he went back to his homeland Kashmir where he passed away. So you have there are two characters. One is more going to the north, one going to the south. But I show them because they really show what were the monks, what they were doing. I mean traveling a lot. Again the same map, not so much green, dark, with the same region which we have seen. And with two characters at least which we will meet again during this talk, which I'm going to concentrate. One is the Mahakala. Mahakala is a major deity in La Kisarai. That's why I put his image on the left part of the screen. We'll see better slides in a moment. And the other one is the Hebadra, who was a major deity in the region of Vikrampur, Mainamati. And another aspect of Hebadra which we found in Norsvengal, but this we don't see him in Southeast Asia. So I just put a picture of him, Chakra Samvara, just to show that there also there was an aspect of him who was worshiped. This is another point which has been also as far as South Asia, I mean this part of the Manus material in South Asia has been considered not really dealt with. It's just that images are described in texts. You have the image, you have the text and then they are identified. But very little attention has been paid to when was the image made and where was it made. Because that you can really see there is really a group of images showing this bodhisattva or there is more this aspect of the Tara or this aspect of the Vishnu, showing that there are really regional local tendency in this in representing one or the other deity. And this help in what we are going now to see which are the relations with Southeast Asia. The first character, first image I want to show is an image which is now lost, which already when it was discovered probably nearly a hundred years ago by the Dutch archaeologist who was in a very bad condition. This is the old picture. You see you just have a puzzle of fragments. This is Hiroka, who was the main deity in Padanglavas, which is a huge site in North Sumatra where you have a number of small temples. So this Hiroka is seen as he is seen in Easteninga. If I remember now here are just fragments of you see the color photos were made by Daniel Peret and they are really what remains what has been found today. So you see that today the state of conservation is even less than what it was a hundred years ago. So he is here on the left and of course he relates very closely to images found in South Bengal. My name is Subapur, that's in the site which are not far away from Vikrampur. And the image on the right is a small painting. I mean it's no more than six centimeters in eight in fact belongs to a manuscript which is distributed between different libraries and museums. It's dated luckily around 1100. The color phone is in Baroda but this painting here this the folios is in the Chester Beatty library in Dublin. So you have here this deity, a Badra, having a human body, trampling on a corpse and in certain cases like this image here surrounded by yoginis. I mean these are these female terrific deities. He has eight we will come back to them again. It has been suggested by a scholar by a colleague that the image of Padanglavas being so close to the image from Vikrampur was probably an import from Bengal. But an analysis of the stone shows that it's like a local product. He has the attributes which are his attributes. He has the kapala, I mean the skull in the left hand. He has a katvanga, this long stick, and he has the Vajra in the up in the right hand. So some more images also showing you that destruction and disappearance of images not only found in Padanglavas but also in Bengal. The image on the left is my Namati but the two pictures as you see I made them from book. The book was published in 1909. It's a Bengali publication in Bengali written. And these are two images which are one of them completely lost which is the one on the right side. The one in the center is in fact in a Pakistani collection. It was transported there in 1972. So there what you have showing you what is Iruka, who is he? Well he is at the center of Mandala. I already mentioned the eight yoginis, these eight female dancers. They are here also. And he is also at the center of eight cremation grounds which are depicted here on this image on the above board. Well it's secondary to the topic of today. I mean you have eight trees with different scenes but it shows that he is really at the center of Mandala. And this reminded us of course of bronzes which were found in Cambodia which dates to the end of the 12th century. So which probably are dated usually during the reign of Jayavarman VII where apparently there was a development of the worship of He Ruka. You have here this very beautiful bronze on the left part with the eight yoginis dancing around him. We do not have such great things in Bengal it doesn't mean that they could not make it but maybe the bronze have been melted, they disappeared or maybe they did not have the concept of making it this way. Because I cannot, I mean it can be one deity, one character, but seen in different cultural settings it's the way of showing him or showing her. In fact answers also the aesthetic taste or development or attitude of the local people. This as it has been, I mean some papers have been written on this He Vadra in Cambodia by a colleague now here and so has Peter Sharok and he showed quite clearly I think that he really emerged really in the reign of Jayavarman VII and you have here two fragments and the one on the left is in the Metropolitan Museum. It's a huge image if I remember it must be one meter fifteen eight showing you that it was a huge sculpture of the deity who was there depicted showing really his importance. So now it's what I was saying mentioning I mean aesthetics can be different but the concept of deity is there in the back the same. I mean in Cambodia you have different heads from different levels one foot above the other. If you don't have that in Bengal you have here an example where you see that he is supposed to have four heads two are visible. He has also numerous arms he can also have numerous arms but in this position he's not trampling on course he's not I would say sometimes when say dancing it's of course a dance position but it's also trampling on the courses below. It's seen in India in a position of victory as it's called Alidha asana but around him you have also the yoginis. You see them around his feet so and above him there is a false one. So you can have the same concept seen in different countries but very differently depicted. Now another aspect of the deity again in Bengal North Bengal and compared to the example in Cambodia where you can see that there is a character who is there trampling on course or dancing but in fact it is a Pratnaya of the deity and I do not know maybe they made it maybe they created this image but I do not know if in Cambodia you have this kind of image Pratnaya and that's really an Indian concept which was then transported to the north to Tibet more than Southeast Asia but you see that the Pratnaya for the female of the deity she is depicted in fact in this very elegant light and force of strength position of dance or trampling the deity and here again you see he may have a number of heads but in India they are really put on the same level all around and you have this number of arms all around. So now that we have seen the Hevadra-Hiruka connection there is another character who appears in Padanglavas and it's Mahakala. So right we have the Hiruka which we have seen and in the very same temple where these fragments of Hiruka were found another image was found which was partly gilded the image is only known from old photos it has completely disappeared this is a small picture which you have on the left it's not a good picture because it's made really from old photograph which is already not so so good what do you have there well you have a male character with so-called hair standing on ends which is this kind of aura which is not a hello it really is here or around you can see here and we'll see we'll compare up with Indian models you may look like a garland of skulls he has his arms bit awkward depiction because probably the artist did not know really how to do it they were not familiar with this iconography one hand is here should keep the kapala and the other one which is on the hip should have a knife for cleaning the kapala. Now we have to go back to India to come to come understand the iconography the image in the center was found in Tripura district which is India Tripura is India today but Tripura is in fact east from Bangladesh and east from the Vikrampur area so in those times it was in fact one single large cultural area so you can see very clearly there that he has a kapala that he has a knife at the level of his hip the garland with the heads and the image on the right is an image which was found in Laki Sarai and which is now in the Hermitage which shows in fact the very same iconography so in India you have this model and the Palanglava's image in fact is based on such image now the interesting thing is what do these two deities do together in a small shrine well Mahakala is in fact the protector of the Hiva Dramandala so one can understand there is a relation between both of them and oh this is much too red but much too colored this is a cloth painting from Karakotu. Karakotu is a site in Central Asia so I'm taking you very far away so not traveling a lot to Asia. A number of cloth paintings have been discovered which are preserved in the Hermitage also and on this cloth painting and they are dated from the 12th and 13th early 13th century you have the main deity multi armed with his Pradhna and below in the white circles is in fact the Mahakala so protecting the deity in fact you have to see yourself to to report practically what is there depicted in a three dimension you have the central deity trembling dancing with his Pradhna and in front of him is Mahakala so you as a human being you are just outside the Mandala and between you and the deity you have there Mahakala protecting somehow the field of Hiva Dramandala so both are together bound together and one can understand why in Palanglava you had bound together both together. Now Mahakala is not unknown in Southeast in Indonesia we have seen the one of Palanglava which can be dated 11th-12th century dating is very difficult for this site there is another one which apparently also has disappeared which was found in Chandijago in East Java and you have in here if you have another fragment you have in here it's a long up from this photo again photo of the Dutch archaeological department and you see that it was also in a poor condition fragments in fact and you see that in this here you have a small niche with a depiction of a Buddha you recognize the skull the kapala in the left hand and the knife in the right hand just like the one which we saw at Palanglava's you see that clearly on the slide which is on the right so we have these two one Palanglava's and Chandijago so there is a third one which is the one which is very well known and which is usually named by Raaf but I don't enter here into the discussion by Raaf or not by Raaf at that moment at that period and in this context we have to see the character as Mahakala whether he has become a Bhairava I mean a Shriver aspect afterwards it's okay I accept it but at that time it's definitely an aspect of Mahakala he was found in Sumatra center Sumatra but he was most probably made produced in East Java the image of the Chandijago dated in the second half of the 13th century we'll see later on in which context the Mahakala has been done and most probably the artist who made the large padanglava image got inspired partly from this image because if you pay attention to the headdress you see that there is kind of globe I mean the hair makes me a circle a bubble and you have a small niche also in the headdress of the padanglava image which shows that it's a Buddha it shows that this is a Buddhist image and not a Shriver image it was created as a Buddhist image and not a Shriver image but of course we have features which are typically Japanese like the the rule of scouts here and the dating and you have here a course also so this image in fact the padanglava image is quite properly dated I wrote around 1350 in fact it has an inscription dating it back to 1347 I come back to him also after a moment I just want to finish this display of Mahakala image in South I mean in Indonesia with this gilded dagger which was found in Sumatra and it has so on the blade which was gilded you can still see it's seen on the detail on the right side you have Mahakala and on the other side of the blade you had in fact a female dating which I show here just in a small vignette on the left that you see it and if you pay attention if you look properly you will see that in fact it's really the same iconography where he had the left hand in front of the kapala and he had the knife in the right hand so you had really this aspect of Mahakala which is they found in Sumatra but also in eastern Java at that period 12 13th century now again I compare these three main images left with again the image which is from Lakissarai you see in standing you see him with the garland of kapala of skulls you see him the skull in the left hand the knife I mean this is really a very same iconographic context now Mahakala was also a major deity in other parts well it's still it's between Far East and Southeast Asia it's the intermediary region which is Yunnan with the Dali kingdom it's there in the middle of the map and I put also this map here which shows you in fact that the area was in fact at the center of a major trade roads you had roads going to India to the Brahmaputsha valley trading horses from Yunnan to Bengal till a later period and I refer for this part of the presentation to the work which has been done in the recent years by Megan Bryson who really specialized if I may say on the images iconography of the Dali kingdom there are not so many images of Mahakala but from the text which she read and translated and analyzed it's obvious that he was there to protect the state as she says the texts were coming from China but the iconography the concept the way of making the image got more inspired from what's happening in South Asia in India so you have him here with two arms and I have two here now two arms you have you see differences of course you have this Kathmandu which is here which is kept here in the other hand but he has a Kapala you see that it's practically reversed in for the iconography he may have elements which are not found in the Bengal Dihar like a small drum which is kept here in his left hand sorry oh sorry let me go back so this what I show on the next one next one is terrible well listen Mahakala you know Mahakala is a great black don't forget it yeah it's true that's that's the meaning of the name so what I wanted to show you is an image of Mahakala from Lakissarai is that there are again as I mentioned just similarity some attributes are there which are taken but you see they're not put exactly in the same positions so the concept is there but locally there is own image which is created again here another image where you have the Damaru the small drum which you don't have in Lakissarai but you will see in a moment in Bengal you have the Akshamala the rosary which is kept in the low right hand the right screen and you have also Akshamala and Pasha which are kept there in the hands and this the image on the left is a in the so-called long hand scroll which is dating from the 11th 12th century but the image on the right is in fact the drawing of a carving yes and in fact the Akshamala the rosary is kept is shown by a quite unique image of Mahakala which is from Vikrampur and the small drums are found in later images from Nepal so you see there is as where I was mentioning the Brahmaputra route and the contact with Bengal from Yunnan there was there really a connections and in the treasure of the three pagodas in Delhi was found for instance a ceiling from Bodhgaya so monks were traveling the roads like the traders were traveling the road and bringing back souvenir there was there really a relation between these two areas so there in Yunnan he was the protector of the state like probably he was most probably also in Java Sumatra because the fact that this image which was brought the Padang Roko image was brought from East Java by Aditya Varma the king really to settle to establish his power there in Sumatra he was also Mahakala protector of state with the Yuan and there is this most this is an image which is probably one of the most famous which is in the Musée Gimmé which was made for a Tibetan monk in dadu dadu is Beijing it was the capital of the Yuan and they show a very special aspect of Mahakala the protector of the not the tent but the protector of the in fact the space which disc of Vajra which protects Mandala so this is an iconography again which is really which we only found in this part of Tibet and Yuan iconography but I just mentioned it to show you that Mahakala appears there also as a protector of state and we know that these images were made in order to protect the state but also in order to somehow give energy to the armies fighting against the soren song and temples were distributed all around the country so he was really in the Yuan empire in China really a major also state deity as he was in Yunnan so showing you that is a major deity I mean from Lakissarai again an image on the left screen where he seated and this iconography was transported through Tibet to Central Asia at the period where the Yuan sorry were ruling in fact the Mogao cave for set six five is a tantric cave which is sometimes called Tibetan cave but which belongs really to the late 12th or later 13th century so to the this the same period and the image which we just saw so this show you that is really a major deity also outside India I mean in really a belt starting from Central Asia where the Yuan and where Tudadu then coming to Yunnan and going in fact and also in Indonesia and we can ask whether in terms of development which took place in Indonesia in East Java and then in Sumatra in fact they are not really it's very contemporary practically with what happens on the continent that it's really but you don't have it in India so showing that is probably connections now I come to the third one with of course a major major deity for all Buddhists all over Asia which is Avalokiteshvara so Avalokiteshvara the set of image which you have on the screen was erected in the second half of the 13th century in Chantijago and I suspect that the Mahakala which we have seen was there also as a protector of this set of images which were in fact produced by Krita Nagara in the memory of his father. This is a set of sculptures which in the center an aspect of the bodhisattva known as Amogapasha is here eight armed is quite damaged as you see the complete sadhana describes in fact and is known but in Tibetan version only described of the bodhisattva with eight arms and surrounded by four attendants from left to right for us you have the tada the green tada then you have the young man Sudhana Kumara who is in search of learning and wisdom then at the proper left of the bodhisattva you have Haya Griva the terrific deity who is always at this side and the Brikuti with some more an ascetic female aspect. Now what is this sadhana? Well this sadhana man was in fact one monk had a vision of this group and this monk in fact is a Kashmiri Shikashi Badra whom we have seen earlier at that time and we are told that he was ill and he was in the Bodhimandir in Bodh Gaya when he had this vision of Avalokiteshvara and of course he was cured so he wrote this sadhana and this sadhana is here the interesting is Amogapasha is a bodhisattva who is known in India I mean we have depiction of Amogapasha but not with eight armed with six armed only and here is a this is really the we don't have eight armed Amogapasha with the four attendants in north Bengal in Bengal Bihar but we have here this huge group in Chandijago and in fact this one can women know the history one understand how it's possible the point is that the monks had to leave at a certain moment Southeast Asia they had to leave Bihar Bengal and some Tibetan souls says that they went all to Jagadala leaving Bihar behind them they met they all went to this monastery in north Bengal and then they separated in two groups and one went to Tibet and one went to Southeast Asia the point is that there is really in the 13th century early 13th century and all to the century but especially early 10th century images which are made which really relate clearly also to the Vikrampur area there is also huge very beautiful Arapachana Manjushri from Chandijago which is also in the hermitage which also relates to similar image in Vikrampur area you have also similarities in Hindu iconography Vishnu on Garuda for instance I mean showing really there is a connection between East Java and Vikrampur and for that I just refer you to a paper by Podine Lindsay and Skirler who wrote on this topic some years ago in two papers in Nativus Asia now the very same King Krithanagala who had this group of image made in honor of the memory of his father had the image made which is on the left screen which is a kind of summary of these five images they are all put together all the back is covered with inscriptions and he had these images transported to Sumatra where it was installed at the same period this group which is seen on the left screen was reproduced in a number of small branches they are 20 22 centimeters in eight and again some are in the darkness but they are all similar they are all coming from the same mold in fact and those which you see are the two which are in Holland one is in Leiden the other one is in Tropenmuseum in Amsterdam and in the darkness down you have one in Berlin and one in the Metropolitan Museum but they are all the same images there is also a fifth one which I could not trace a picture which is somewhere in a private collection so what do we see here we see first that a set of images trans is put in one single stellar transported to central Sumatra where it settled somehow through the royal power and at the same time this very image is reproduced a number of times and it may be possible that there were much more which were made the point is that these images were brought back to Europe in the 19th century and I really I did not find any place where they would say where they were in fact discovered I mean there are only the two from Holland could be documented the others appeared on the art market a long time ago but they are then we know they're from Java but where where they found in a temple or special sites this so I suspect that these small images which are also made under the reign of Krita Nagara it's really one set of images in fact we are made for somehow redistributing this power of the main image so we have this image on the left screen which we just saw now brought by Krita Nagara central Sumatra and some 80 years later Aditya Varman had this image of Mahakala brought to Sumatra and he really dedicated the Avalokiteshvara so he bond together two images so we have a situation as we will see after a moment which is also seen in another country of Southeast Asia for East I mean continental Southeast Asia let's say so when I think that Avalokiteshvara is the deity of the center is peaceful it settles the power is the one also rescuing the souls and Mahakala is more the one who really protects the space and there we go to the continent to the Dali kingdom again from a very earlier period state deity has been an aspect of Avalokiteshvara I mean there is a tale about it saying that the monk came from India and the image emerged out of him and it was a bodhisattva an image of the bodhisattva was made and in start in the mountain and this the left and white the left image in black and white in fact is a detail from the scroll which was dates from the 10th century the one on the right is from the 11th century so you have this central image of sorry who appears here you have these two image on the left on the left and in the center they are in the same manuscript and you see that he's really like a column like a pillar he shows with the right and the vitat kamudra so the argumentation as if he's would be teaching sort of sex and a feature which is really not in general in general would not make it is the left hand showing the varadamudra the left hand is stood up so he has these two gesture but the interesting thing is that not only is the state deity at the center of the worship is that his images were also reproduced in a very large number of examples and the one which is for instance in the lower right corner is just here around the corner if I may say in the British Museum you have see this you have your phenomenon which is practically identical to what you have seen in Sumatra in Java with a multiplication of the image of one of the central deity so in the Dali kingdom this is what the situation which you have which is similar to the situation which you have in Malaysia you have Avalokiteshwara and you have Mahakala one as a central deity and Mahakala known to be there as protector defending the state so just to remind you and here he is very very beautifully he's not dark it's Mahakala from Lakissala he has got back his colors it's light at least with a three example you have the large one from Varadamloko on the right side the one from the Dali kingdom and one in Lakissala so the iconographies in fact it's the same character the iconographies are the same the main features as you see the kapala the skull and the knife they are really there also is way of being depicted with ferocious features with a big belly with a garland of skulls so it's really done so now I think look at that and knowing the material in India I know I must say I was always puzzled by the fact that these images in India there are some more orphans they are found there in monasteries we identify them through text we can study their development through style and iconography both go together but as I must have said I always wonder about how were they really seen at that time I mean they were worshipped but they had to fulfill some function in in the monastery but also in the society the monastery cannot exist without the society around it so Lakissala is a place where you have four such Mahakala and he is again very dark he's the one on left screen which was very much full of light for a moment two are still in situ these are the two images which are in the center I'm very much sorry that it's darkness and one is in the Metropolitan Museum which is a seated one on the right screen and the one on the left is as I said a few times it's in the hermitage so what why this abundance of beautifully very nicely preserved Mahakala from the area of Lakissala so we have to to bring back to remind us that 12th century is a period where the monasteries they were first losing since already late 10th century they were if I may say losing the support of the society around them the Brahmanical temple was really becoming more and more important and the people were more donating to us the Brahmanical people the temple than to the monastery on the other side you had of course threatened of the Muslim armies coming from the west and I suspect that these images were built were made with all these ideas in the background that one felt threatened Shaka Shri Badra whom I mentioned really had when he was in Jainagar as a chaplain of the king he had a vision of maithriya and maithriya told him go to Jagadala and leave India I mean leave so that's where he took his monk went to north Bengal and then left for Tibet I mean this is you can say oh this is history I mean maybe not real history but it's really reflect somehow the state of mind of the people at the time who when asked we were really disappearing one after the other they were threatened we know that some of them were plundered destroyed and I think the Mahaka the political power also the Pala did not see disappeared also at the end of the century I mean it was just reduced to very very tiny space in the heart so this atmosphere created this yeah there was a atmosphere of fear and of being threatened and Mahaka of course was the one protecting the one protecting by excellence yeah this was just to show you where it was like it was in the air so in going back now to going to Avalokiteshwara we have seen that in these two parts in the Dalai kingdom or in eastern Java and then go back to Sumatra he must have been I mean in Dalai it's known he was at the center he was a state deity was really the one settling the the power and what do we have in Lakissarai I wonder because images of Avalokiteshwara are very very nervous in South Asia very very nervous in eastern India under a number of aspects but in the 12th century appears an image two of them here are found are from Lakissarai the one on the left and the one in the center one was found on the Ganga not far away from Lakissarai and you can see it today in Birmingham it's a very tall image nearly two meters in it it was found with the so-called Sultan Ganj Buddha and I do remember you when did he write his Sardana on Amogha Pasha well he had the vision of him because he was ill and he had the vision in the Bodhi Mantir Avalokiteshwara appeared and he was safe no more disease well this reflect again that the Buddhist the Buddhist monastery took over at a certain moment for the society for the normal devotees not especially the monks but it was maybe a way of addressing the population was sustaining financially the monasteries took over the fact that they could cure disease maybe they had doctors they had maybe developed disease since I do not know but from that period we have this kind of image which are described which is described in Sardanas and this is an aspect of the bodhisattva I describe it after a moment which is said to cure disease and you see him seated on the lion well the lion it took it from Mandrushri you see him with a sword on the lotus you look more properly to emission the rights they are clear the the sword he got it also from Mandrushri he has a trishula with a snake here behind his right and this it took from Shiva he has also white skulls as with white flowers we are saying which is always seen behind us here which he also got from Shiva so there is an image which has been artificially made produced it's not the end of a development I mean many images of Avalokiteshvara you can start from the very early in period in Gandhara and go then to Ajanta and go to the caves in western India and then go to Issa and you see the development of the iconography this is a new iconography which is of course did not survive the destruction of the monasteries but this shows that he can be also a protector but he's considered here to be a medicine some of doctor but that still doesn't tell us does he have there or did he have any relay any position any understanding of being at the center of of the state like he was in Dali or like he must have been in Chani Jagu in eastern Java well this was a question which remained unanswered which remains still unanswered or whether or whether and this before I go to this question of what he could have been in fact I want to show you again these two images which are from Lakissarai they were found in fact in the 19th century by Waddell Austin Waddell they were found together in a well they are in perfect condition there is not a scratch usually you have the nose which is broken they are in perfect perfect conditions mean they were not just thrown away thrown in a well when the the monk left no they were very properly very carefully disposed in a well hidden till the late 19th century where they were excavated I mean torn or found and they were brought by Waddell here in London they were offered to museums in London who refused them and then they were sold to Berlin always together they were in Berlin till 1945 and they left also together in Berlin for Russia I mean Soviet Union so they and they are still together so thousand year these two images are together so I for me you can say it's an interpretation which I'm making of course but we all interpret in a material the fact that they were found together in a well really hidden protected it's as if Mahakala is in fact the protector of a Valokiteshvara in which case we could say that the relation is like you have in the Dali kingdom when one protects the other both are there related to the to the state to the center of the power oh this I hope that the next one will be better oh no this is a tragedy this is a tragedy because um well maybe what I can do after the talk I will I must have the picture separately and then I show you the they should come and luckily there are excavations now in Laki Sarai and in the site called Jainangar in fact huge red hill it's called Lal Parvat and in fact there under there are different traces of monasteries traces probably also of a palace I mean with very very heavy walls and they found out this lintel well this is not any lintel this is of course the lintel is broken you have only two-thirds I'm really very much sorry for that um I will finish it and then I show you the slides they will understand better what what we see here is fact Avalokiteshvara in the middle I mean you have a lintel with three niche one is lost the one which was at the center is a depiction of a dancing Avalokiteshvara he is depicting as dancing as Eruca was doing and on the other side the one he's dancing also is a mantra freedom thing so I suspect that the lost one maybe they found it the lost one was Maitreya because really you have these three characters which are born in certain images in eastern India but what I wanted to show with this lintel with Avalokiteshvara dancing in the center of the composition is that it takes over the position of Eruca with dancer the lintel must have belonged to a major temple probably definitely built in Brics probably there you have to trust me and in a huge image of the Buddha which is only known through huge fragments which are in the Indian museums which are from there and what I wanted to suggest is that this shows that in Lakisarai also at a certain moment somehow there was the post there is we can maybe understand that Avalokiteshvara was also seen as a central deity protecting the shrine because E3 at the center just above the entrance is like Eruca dancing to trampling on the enemies so to say so maybe there is also a way of understanding him there when looking at what is happening in Southeast Asia and in Yunnan as being but only for a very short time because it's it's unique you don't have it anywhere else you don't have anywhere else this amount of Mahakalas you don't have anywhere else such a compositional lintel with the dancing of Avalokiteshvara so for a certain moment we can understand maybe the material of Lakisarai as also reflecting what we have in Southeast Asia or in Yunnan saying that one is at the center and the other one is there to protect the space and that's it Thank you immensely for a fascinating really journey okay thank you following the journey of all of the all of these images and I should add that I mean my opening that the relationship between South and Southeast Asia is you know is your concern it's really nice to see that Southeast Asia becomes also Yunnan that you're you're really looking quite broadly yes and more broadly than often one does and that's really that's really useful I think to to get that embedded in in the discussions as well so thank you very much for that yeah shall we look at these slides first yeah I hope I have them here okay so oh no I don't understand I notice them it's on another stick sorry well we will um we will look to the top this evening just been recorded actually and um and we will post it online and we will work with the technicians to see if there's a means of replacing the powerpoint that's accompanied the talk tonight with with your actual powerpoint yeah it's true it's true that's that's would be a good idea um let's are you okay if we open up for questions yes yes yes okay um all right so the four of yours don't be charmed can I move it like it I have a question for you there's something that you said you would not especially want to go into but because I'm here you're one having done a phd on java yeah the whole concept of Biowa and Mahakala do you like to discuss it briefly excuse me would you like to discuss briefly the whole concept of Biowa versus Mahakala and Sumatra sculptures uh yes uh well I know that it has been always mentioned I found everywhere by rough by rough only one person identified as Mahakala is John Huntington and is at menu after I see the image in the context where it was produced it's really a Buddha in the head dress that afterwards it becomes a by rough I have the same problem in India I mean the Mahakalas in India I mean you can differentiate them quite I mean you have a number of Bhairava Bhairava not Bhaira but Bhairava in India uh which are very similar to the Mahakalas in Bengal Bihara but there is a difference which allows you to identify the one from the order Bhairava has a sword like Mahakala but he has also the shield that's in fact a pair of elements which belongs together in the Indian iconography Doga is both the fighting deities if you have a sword you need also a shield protects this is what Bhairava Bhairava the Shiva is not Mahakala the Mahakalas from the Kisaraya from from the Buddhist in the Buddhist context they have only the sword they don't need a shield they don't need to protect themselves and so what I want to say is that also in the Indian context some colleagues put with a question mark because one don't know but when I have to look at really the iconography and for for this this Mahakala Bhairava in the context when he was produced it's a Mahakala relating also to the other one from Chadi Jagu and to the one from Padang Bhairava that afterwards he become a Bhairava or in I don't know when the locally it might have been seen as a Bhairava this I am not familiar with the way the Indonesian change from one to the other this why no no I I can't there is no answer only that if you really look you put yourself in this setting of this period of the Chadi Jagu at that I mean what has survived there and of what Aditya Valmandit in many we consecrated the Avalokites and Sumatra so that's and then you have this small look this the Buddha in the headdress it's a problem but there's also two deities at the entrance to Chandi Singh Asari one is Radishva and one is Mahakala supposedly which gives me a huge problem because he has none of this iconography at all except the big cloud yes but then you have to probably the the Mahakala as a in a Shaiva context or yeah yes but the economic well the point is a Mahakala the term Mahakala itself it's using the the Chinese pilgrim who when coming seventh century in India says that there is a dark deity hence its name who sits at the door of the kitchen or the place where the monks were eating or the shrine protecting it and he says that it's always covered by oil for the worship and then it has become black because of that it calls it Mahakala the point is that this Indian origin I mean at the beginning it's called Mahakala by eating that is no Mahakala it's if he is a protector of the kitchen mean of the food of richness is Jambala in the context of Buddhism if he is a protector of the shrine is not the aspect of similar deity which is called Vajravana who is a protector of the north for the buddhism he is the husband of Hariti the goddess of wealth and so on so you have in in the in the Gupta I mean late Kushan Gupta and period you have a deity who is there as a protector of a shrine or a kitchen or in a monastery and who will make a pair with Hariti who has two functions or more he is Jambala he will become Jambala he's not yet named Jambala but he will become Jambala giving the richness and he is also Vajravana who is a protector of the north and who has an arm is well known from Gandhara art and this is what is called by the Chinese name Mahakala which I can understand the Mahakala which we have seen from La Kisaraya as we have in eastern India is a very enigmatic origin I must say there I cannot trace just like I mentioned for Abel Psejra where you can really start in the Gandhara and Kushan period and you see the evolution of elements are changing the attributes are changing I mean but you see there is a line of evolution for Mahakala it's not there so Dhani is there in eastern India and he doesn't have anything to do with the Mahakala described by Yitzing and the point is that there is a Mahakala also who is describing Shiva because Shiva is also a terrible dark aspect rushing in the forest and Paravais the Urlur I mean the one with what do you say Urlur yes and this we know him also from the Gupta period so it's it's like a tough topic also in India so it's no surprise that it's a tough one yes thank you and what if I could bring you back to um I have a lot of questions I might try to ask two of them right now um bring you back to some things that you were just passing by at the moment we were referring to the I don't have the picture sorry where where the deity is where Mahakala in particular but where the whatever the pair is if it's Hvajra and Mahakala or if it's Amalokiteshvara it's a replacement for Hvajra and Mahakala what you might know about emplacement actual emplacement on the ground within the monastery when you were speaking of Padangloka and in relationship to that could you speak a little bit about your sources what sources you're you're you're referring to so when you spoke of Padangloka you spoke of the King bringing the deity to protect the state yeah that's what sense do you have with actual emplacement there and how do you begin to think that well the image the image was found first on the ground falling and off broken also the pedestal was separated and I I don't think that it was any any temple also I don't remember to have seen anything about temples the same thing for the Amalokiteshvara I mean the still they interesting and on itself yes they I do not know about the architectural setting of the images and if they would have had something they would have built also a temple in bricks like in Padanglava also they're in stone or they're so broke Padanglava is such a destroyed site all the monuments are small but you see that we have seen just two sculptures from Padanglava but all the material is such in a bad condition and I wonder I don't know what the situation there but I know that in India the architectural material was re-employed re-used the bricks from the temples were used for people building their houses and simply which we can understand and when there were bronze objects that were melted and so so I wonder I do not know what was the situation in Sumatra how far these these two images were in shrine which would have been built for them what I could read is that for the Amalokiteshvara it was brought in one site and then transported in another site by Aditya Varman so he reunited in fact the two images but I do not know about the architectural setting of them so it would have been strange of course to have them just standing like that I mean we are respecting the deity you create a shrine you don't see the I mean in India also they were all in shrines before the monastries were destroyed right when I'm also thinking about the relationship to the you know the conception of a territory of state because how do you begin to think about the emplacement within the architectural setting of the monastery in its representation or its illusion to state territory so that's you know that's the question of the mandala and when you have the painted mandalas we see it and as you have to imagine the three-dimensional orientation of it yes that was quite interesting the way you got us to think three-dimensionally out of the mandala but to what extent do you have evidence to be able to demonstrate how that works on the ground that's kind of that's of course impossible that's impossible because I mean the only place where you can do it in India I mean the far as Buddhist art is concerned in when you go to the caves of western India because they are the objects that they are in situ they were never removed they are carved on the walls right and in look I mean this Abalokiteshwara and the Mahakala from Akissarai they were found in a well meaning that they were already not put anymore in their original position they were saved this way and yeah yeah but that's interesting still because they're paired as you say they are since thousand years they never leave each other I haven't seen the picture on my notebook should I show that? I'll ask one more question until we get to the place of students who I'm sure are preparing your questions so while we wait for that but I think it's a point that a lot of people here will be interested in and it's the question of the local taste yes as you called it so I'm wondering what ways we might have of thinking that question in a sense beyond local taste that is stylistics can be fairly easy to interpret in terms of local taste aesthetics yes but I can a graphic transformation yeah be something different so if you're looking at a question of you know a source or of one one particular regional development as depicting eight arms of the given deity yes and in another region be it in South Asia or Southeast Asia you see the same divinity with the same attributes but with six arms that's a different question that's not necessarily a question of taste no possibly but how might you think about that otherwise are we looking at dissociation from textual source are we looking at new textual sources how do you begin to approach that question well I would say I'm very suspicious I mean I'm very careful in handling text I think that very often one concern I mean always is eastern India part the text follow the image I mean Shakyashiva had this vision and he described the Amogapasha with eight arms but Amogapasha with his four attendent figures he could see them already in images everywhere only the Buddhist Advocate had eight arms he had six arms because it was already existing and Amogapasha as a protector was already existing in the region his position is to rescue the source of the Praetor the source of the dead people and in particularly in the region of Bodh Gaya because and this is where we have to put the things in context and it's complicated in India but it's complicated everywhere because Bodh Gaya is in fact source of Gaya the city of Gaya and Gaya is a place where the Shraddha rituals are taking place still today where you go to have ritual paid for the rescue of the soul saving of the soul of your ancestors there was there I would say a financial market it's we have to see it like that also Gaya was already in the eight nine ten century a place where people were coming for a big image for the paying respect to the soul of their four fathers facing that the Buddhists developed an Amogapasha image which is I mean this image is mainly found in the region of Bodh Gaya Kukya Kukya is a site which is not far away from Gaya but where he has he has only six arms he has six arms but this function is to rescue the people and to rescue the dead souls and so and he's named Amogapasha in the text also and he has also the Pasha and so on so in fact and their early image ninth century but many meaning early image also doesn't mean that they were no more worshipped they were there they were there in the monasteries they were there in the temples so when he had this vision somehow he had a vision of something which he had seen already but he put it with eight arms which is very interesting because there I mean an image with eight arms made for me more sense than an image with six arms because with eight arms you really ruled on the eight directions of space with six arms you can say you have four directions and a zenith and an idea but it's not like the eight arms so he made the most perfect so it's where I say the text can come after the image but it's the transformation because here the chanjago it's clear that they knew about this vision of the sadhana which he wrote and they created it I mean it's a very complex set off but I always thought I always considered there is a visual iconography and I would say literary iconography they run parallel they don't and very often the images I mean I think really in this case for instance it's clear but just he produced a better one through his visualization than the one which was existing Yes yeah the text the image from South Asia the front from India Bihar Bengal Nepal there were connections this road the west east road this is what Megan Brice found she I am not I don't know Chinese some say so I rely on what she has written and quite brilliantly as she has written on it she found out that the ritual the text of ritual veneration of the Mahakala were really coming from China they are Chinese texts but they do not integrate they do not have the Mahakala as you have it in in the Mogawa case or the the one with the no here's a club on the hands which is the lord of the so-called attempt of the pavilion which is who is the the main Mahakala of the UN court this they don't have they have texts coming from this part of the of the continent but they look for the inspiration for the image to the west this is the one and I think it's because they since I mentioned that shortly that there was at least at least one seal from both guys been found in the treasure of the three pagodas and I mean there was a rule I mean and there was a trade route which was very important between Eastern India and the Yunnan so I do guess that the monks were probably they were aware of what was taking place in Eastern India but as I show I'll try to show the image in Dalai kingdom it's really a unique image or so it's really a Dalai image but it has element coming from the from the west if I can say and it has element like the dam Aruda small drum which you find at a later period in Nepal so it makes you again on the same road see this that's what's thanks so much for the lecture I'm originally from Calcutta but oh yeah for the last few years I was working with the international transport and cultural heritage in Tamil Nadu and one of the things that I found very fascinating was to discover early Buddhist presence in the Tamil Nadu and so why why you trace the travel of monks from Kashmir to Bengal and South East Asia but like the Kallavas especially they are also in contact with some and yes definitely so while you're talking about this effect of Vajrayana I'm thinking how much is this earlier contact of the Odhis and other people between the South East Asian region affecting the travel of monks as you have traced from Kashmir do these contacts from South India completely die away yes well the bodhisattva from some from the Dalai kingdom this so-called Ajaya but octezhura standing street and so on and as a matter of fact the image has been brought at a certain moment by Indian monk it's part of a history of this image a stylistically the origin of this first image which is of course no more there has been discussed as being from Southeast Asia but there is definitely an element from the Palava which is this circular you know Palava and its remains the Chola period they have this series of cloth garments forming large circles in front of their I mean hanging from the girdle this is what you have at this Avalokiteshwara showing that very far away in the background of this image there was an element from South India there are elements from source in objects from South India which are found also in Sumatra image of one image of Avalokiteshwara if I remember a seated one also two at least two stone images which either they came from Sri Lanka or from South India by the time of the Chola were also found in North Sumatra then somewhere in Java was found a very interesting small bronze shrine which I only know from an exhibition of Indonesian art which took place 30 years ago and it was never never appeared again in exhibition but it's kept in Jakarta and this is a not a copy it's similar it's identical to a similar small shrine from Nagapatinam Nagapatinam is a major Buddhist site from the Chola period in South India so showing that there were also of course connection the Chola were great traders I mean they were also quite active in the Bay of Bengal and Southeast Asia but this for this development which I have shown this you have to look in to the north I mean to Bengal behind you don't have it in South India South India the the monks were very much isolated and we have to assist in the Saitlaka Kukihar for instance of quite a number of monks who came in the 9th century and made donations and stayed in Kukihar they came from Kerala they came from Chola Mandala from the South so there was still of course but this is the amazing things Kanshi Kanshipuram was a major Buddhist site and there is nothing nothing nothing left Buddhist in Kanshipuram because Chola came and eradicated it yes so that's if it does somewhere in Kanshipuram there's something Buddhist there that will face you because all you see is Shiva and Vishnu yes all right try I don't know the mind can you speak a bit louder because you showed us the the location I visited on the 9th yes yes yes there is a similar image in the Madras which is made in the Chola village oh really it's an Avalok yashvalok it is yes oh that's great oh thank you and so I was wondering if you find a link now this is an isolated one I do not know it there's a point is that you because Buddhist was really eradicated during I mean the giant suffered a lot also during the Chola period at a certain point and I mean once the main monasteries which were in the north I mean for Vardrayana disappeared and this I mean only isolated I mean very isolated examples of the presence of Buddhism remained and as I just mentioned you you had a city like Kanshipuram which which is known from the sources having been very very active and there is nothing nothing so I mean recently also I mean recently maybe five ten years ago there was a very beautiful Buddha seated in the so-called European Vardrayana and so-called European way teaching with a number of characters which was also found in a small village somewhere in Tamil Nadu it's now in Madras so you have this isolated finds which unfortunately you can't relate to a Nakhajagal context because usually they are found by a farmer in his field or in the river and someone there the context is lost in fact you know but of course if you if you I mean I do not know this image thank you for telling me well that shows that of course the concept was there but the concept emerged really suddenly there in the region with major great images so but thank you for telling me I do not understand very well your question okay yes you mean how was it transferred from one place to the other no not just no not only the text I suspect that they had sketchbooks this is well known for Nepal they were sketchbooks which the artists were using were kind of repertoire showing you we see we see we see how should it be made and with detailed sketches you have this attribute this attribute which are depicted and and because the point is that if you only speak if you only say I mean luckily people don't say anymore only that sadhana the sources of the images I imagine a man coming from India or anywhere and he goes somewhere else and he has he wants to produce an image cast image or stone image of one special aspect of Manjushri or it doesn't matter who and he knows a sadhana because he knows how to visualize he knows that sadhana is in fact a tool for visualization and for identifying oneself to the deity at the end but not for producing an image so anyway he knows the sadhana he knows this is like and he said to the artist this is what I want and I describe it to you and the artist is he has never seen a Katwanga he has never seen a knife for cleaning his ghost how would it made it unless he gets an image for doing it it's where I suspect that both things are working together they were also sketchbooks helping to construct the image can I ask you a question Mr. Ball? Just a clarification when you said movement are you talking about the gestures of the the physical gestures of the image or are you talking about the traveling of the objects? Sorry but I don't have anything to say I just took it correctly I understand thank you it's all right Yes would the would small bronze pieces be quite widely traveling with marks etc yes yes it's not beyond belief that you would scale up a three inch bronze into a three foot stone but that would certainly support any sketches and textures yes yes yes but yeah it might be but I think a sketch speaks much more than a small image I mean that than a already produced small image where you would have the carpala the knife and other attributes well it might be but I mean since we know there were sketchbooks which were used in Nepal that's of course sketchbooks were some more paper to our books used and then they were just drawn away that's why nothing survived it might be but I don't want to speculate too much but bronze will survive a sea crossing more readily than a paper sketchbook or a palm leaf sketchbook but they transport it on their back or the monster I mean they would surviving wise not oh the surviving one well of course if there is a ship wreck the manuscript is sold into the water yes okay well maybe we'll wrap it up I really want to thank you for this before we before we give you our last our last thanks I want to flag a couple of other talks that are coming up that you you've reminded me of and it also means that there will be links certainly in in the kinds of questions and the materials that are being addressed the first one that comes to mind is I think that's our next talk in the series by Menaka Kloka who has worked on some of the materials that that Haji was working on this evening and I think that it will certainly offer some interesting further discussions on these materials and then the next talk is is perhaps more tangentially uh related but it's um it's by Sion Zepiric on the 6th of March and uh while the topic that Sekiric will be working on is most specifically related to this question of language and image not just text but text also but language and image um he also has been working on questions of relations between uh Indian Shradha and uh let's call it Cambodia Shradha I'm not quite sure if that's what we should call it but maybe we should and um so some of the the questions of relation between imagery and funerary ritual that you touched on very very briefly there in your discussions of okay so please do keep those talks in mind but also the other talks in our series um which are advertised on the central post office station study to website and that's all I have to say and thank you very very much for uh fascinating