 Hello and welcome to Tan Meeting TV and the forum for the 2020 candidates for state representative for Chittenden 8-1. My name is Susan Clark and I'll be the forum moderator and tonight we are pleased to have all five candidates with us running for state rep for Chittenden District 8-1, V Chase who's a Libertarian, Maurice Dunbar, Republican, Tom Nelson, Republican, Marybeth Redmond Democrat, Marybeth you're the incumbent, Antonia Vahotsky, did I say that right? Vahotsky, okay thank you progressive Democrat. So our format tonight is that we'll have an hour and 15 minutes together. We'll begin with each candidate offering a minute and a half opening statement and then we have some questions prepared and that the candidates have all received and we'll also take call-in questions from viewers which will take priority. Every candidate will have a minute and a half to respond to the questions and if there's time candidates can follow up questions with each other with with 30 second responses if we want to go that route and at the end hopefully we'll have time for half-minute closing from each candidate. A reminder to viewers that you will be able to find a recording of this, you can send your neighbors to it if you want to, and other candidate forums online anytime at cctv.org. So we'll get started, we'll go on alphabetical order and I'll circle through so that the same person doesn't go first every time. Start with opening statements, please tell us why you are running and what experience you bring to the position. So Dee, we'll start with you. Opening statement. Yes, thank you. My name is Dee Chase. I'm the Libertarian candidate running. Well, a little background. I'm from Essex. I was born and was happy to have been raised in here in Essex for quite some time. I went to Essex High School. My father teaches at Essex High School. I also am an assistant coach at the high school as well and the reason why I'm running is because the thing I see, well looking at the faces here, the young ones, the youngest one here, I'm here to hopefully see ourselves in the future. Vermont has been my life for over 30-something and I forget how old I am now. So I like Vermont. I've been around the world. I joined the Navy right after high school, so I did six years there and saw many countries, so many people, so many places and at the end of the day, I came home to Vermont and so I wish to stay here in Vermont and do her proud. And so some of the things I plan on focusing on, you know, growing the state. You know, we are a real state. We're a small state, but we can still grow. And I think this growth, this growth has to be smart though and it's not just our growth just because we need to grow. And as the saying goes, growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell. So this growth of Vermont needs to be for the betterment of Vermont and by that it's people as well. So that is what I hope to accomplish, to help grow the Vermont for the betterment of all of Vermonters. Thank you. Thank you. Marie, do you want to go next? Sure. Hi, my name is Marie Dunbar. And I'm running because I've lived long enough to see more common sense ideals in a state. And I've become increasingly upset with the way decisions are being made. And I would just love to make some very real changes. I've lived here for 44 years and I just would like to make some changes that will really improve our state economically and in many, many other areas. I have a lot of real life experiences that include commitment, responsibility and leadership. And I'd like to apply those to a role in Montpelier. Thank you. Thomas Nelson. Well, thank you, Susan. And thanks to Channel 17 for keeping up this great tradition of candidate forums during the election season. I think it's really a great resource for Vermonters to be able to learn about what the candidates think and what they feel would be good steps to take make life better here. My background is I'm a lifelong Vermonner. I grew up in Berry, Vermont in a large family. I went to college out of state, but I returned and I've been living in Chittenden County ever since in Essex in Williston. I've been married 35 years to a wonderful woman from the Northeast Kingdom. I don't think she's listening, but I hope she is. We have two grown a daughter and a son that are great people. They're out and on their own, of course. So I'm running basically because I'm deeply concerned about our finances and the overall health, financial health of the state. I think we have had a slow and stagnant economy for a long time. Our businesses haven't grown like they should and our tax burdens are really high. And then you add a pandemic to that. So we there are no positive outlooks economically here for the next at least two fiscal years. So my thought is that we really do need to come together in Montpellier and we have to do we can't do business like usual. We have to be very, very focused and I've called it like a laser like focus on our recovery from COVID. We have still a great number of Vermonters that are unemployed. We have a retirement system that is terribly in debt and the revenues are going to be shortened. We won't have those to work with. So those are the things that I that I want to address or help out step up and help out with. My family actually had a small business when I was younger and and my career has been in public safety in Vermont. Thank you. Thank you. Well, it's time to circle back to some of those as well. Thanks a lot. Mary Beth, you're next. Thank you very much, Susan. And I really appreciate the opportunity to be here today and share kind of my thoughts with my Essex constituents. So I'm running for reelection for a second term. I want to continue the work of economic recovery for Vermonters that I've been very much at the table engaged in. I want to help to continue to support the systems that support Vermonters and really work to undergird and helps smaller businesses, which are the engine of this state. I love living in this community. I appreciate my Essex constituents. I feel like those in Essex take care of their friends and neighbors. People watch out for each other. It's a very caring community. And I feel like my background is a nice fit for the legislative policymaking work that I do. I'm a journalist by background and journalists ask hard questions. They listen well. They look at the interconnections of systems and they're good at synthesizing data and looking at outcomes. So I feel like that coupled with my non-profit professional experience and having taught for many years at St. Michael's College makes me with a good skill set for continuing in this job. I sit on the House Human Services Committee, which is a committee that I love because I'm very engaged in human services. I help lead the women's caucus and I also participate in the climate solutions and social equity caucuses. We have a lot of work to do. I want to be at the table to continue that work and we have a challenging budget year coming up, not so much in fiscal 2021, but in fiscal year 2022. Thanks very much. Great. Great. Again, we will be able to cycle back to some of these topics. Tanya. Thank you, Susan. And thanks for hosting this forum and giving us a space to talk about these things. I'm running because I believe that every voice must be represented if we're going to make the truly transformative changes that we need to build a stronger and more resilient community. Essex is my home. I am also an Essex high school graduate. I grew up here and like many young professionals, I struggled to afford being able to return home to Essex after college. I did return to Vermont when I graduated, but it took me years before I was able to come back to my home in Essex and I'm really happy to finally be able to be back here living and working for the last six and a half years, but getting to this point was much more difficult than it should have been like it is for so many young people, many of whom are not able to come back. Since I returned, I've seen that too many people are struggling both here and across our state and the core of that struggle really comes from systems that aren't working for them. I do believe though that we can fix those systems by bringing together a diverse coalition of perspectives in order to build real practical solutions that work for all of us. I'm running to make sure that women and young people and people living on fixed incomes and every person that's struggling to get by gets a voice in Montpelier. As a social worker, I know how important it is that we all get a seat at the table. I see at the school that I work in and I'm in my private practice office daily the real human costs of these systems that don't work for people and the COVID crisis has really laid all of this bare. I also believe that this crisis gives us a real opportunity to rebuild a stronger, more people-centered system that allows everyone to thrive. My previous work with state government after the crisis of Tropical Storm Irene allowed me to build an innovative system to meet the needs of people and I believe that we can continue forward and meet the needs in this crisis as well. Thanks, Sonia. Thank you. Thank you all. All right, we will move on to our first question. Yes. Susan, can I just say that the timer that you have is really hard to hear. It's difficult, so I don't know if there's a way to make it more audible or closer to the microphone. I'll turn it up and maybe I can put up my hand as well when it goes off. Great. Thank you. Long as you promise not to hate me. It's such a 90 seconds is so short. So this first question is about impact. What will be different for the people of your district or the state as a whole? Because you have been elected to this position and what qualifies you to make those changes happen? So we will start with Maurice on this one. Okay. Well, first of all, I apologize for the bad lighting to anyone that's watching on TV. We'll try to work on that the next time. I really feel that I could bring some really good changes to the state house because I have some incredible life experiences and I have a lot of common sense and I just would love to see people be able to get back to the place where they can live with real budgets in their household or I should say rather that we learn to budget at the state house like we run our own households. So I again as I said earlier, I have a lot of leadership experience. I have business experience. I have nursing experience and I've traveled overseas and there's just so much common sense thinking that we need to switch to. I think I can bring a lot of sincere help to the state house in all the decision making as much as possible. Thank you, Maurice. All right. Tom, do you want to take this? Sure. So if I'm elected to the house, I obviously would be one of the body down there and I would try to work collaboratively with everybody. Obviously, there is a balance issue in Montpellier with Democrats and progressives having a super majority for a very long period of time. So their motivation maybe to work with Republicans are there, should be stronger than it is now. But what I would like to work for is the fiscal stability that we're going to need here. I mean, these are serious challenges that I don't think I've ever seen in Vermont in our lifetime. They can't be dismissed. They have to be addressed. We're not going to have the money to maintain a lot of programs or certainly start any new programs. And forever, we pretty much been in the top five in the country and tax burdens. So when you add that to the fact that we've the third oldest population per capita in the country, that just doesn't work. The folks that are at the at older ages are not working and not paying in on a regular basis like they do during the prime of their careers. So it's just something is going to break here. And I hope that that doesn't happen. So we're going to have to make very, very tough decisions on our programs on everything that we are funding now, and that we're going to continue to fund. And that is what's going to affect our communities the most. Thank you, Tom. Okay. Question is about impact. Mary Beth. I would say, for me, the community members, my constituents, they can count on the fact that I am an emerging leader in the house. My voice, my experience, my colleagues would say hold weight. I work very respectfully with others across the aisle. It's actually the case in my House human services committee that the majority of the votes that come out of our committee are 11-0. And any that kind of break down along party lines are actually very rare because we sit and we work and roller sleeps up and really attempt to come to compromises in a lot of the policies that come out of human services. So I feel like I have a seat at the table when it comes to influencing policy. I've worked really hard to establish good relationships with independence, progressives, Republicans and Democrats. I am an advocate for individual constituent needs. That is a high priority. And many of my constituents would say that during the COVID pandemic, I was very available working with them on unemployment issues, pandemic unemployment assistant issues, disability rights issues, food security and on and on. I am reachable, responsible and I balance that individual need with working for the common good, which I feel is really important that there's a balance of both of those. Thank you. I heard it that time. Tonya. I think we need to make sure we're a state where young people are able to stay and thrive and an important step in accomplishing that is making sure that the voices of those people are at the table. And as someone who grew up in Essex and a young woman trying to stay and build a business here, I will bring that voice along with my experience developing and launching innovative statewide supports and solutions. As a longtime community member working with youth and young adults in our community, I will also bring the voices of the many who have felt that they haven't been heard in our policies. In my work as a social worker, my job is to support people to navigate difficult systems and the crises that arise in their life. I will take those tools with me to Montpelier to help our community and our state navigate this current crisis and whatever comes next. Additionally, in my work as a community organizer, I've built the skills and tools needed to ensure that we bring all voices to Montpelier. We really can make transformative changes and build an Essex and a Vermont where we all have what we need. And I want to create systems that look like all of us and lift all of our voices so that we can together build a future for Vermont that ensures we are all heard and have all of our needs met. Even when we don't see eye to eye, we have to come together collaboratively because I do believe and I've seen in my practice and my work that we can come together and build solutions that no one of us could have envisioned on our own. And so I will bring that energy and that work as a social worker and a community organizer and as someone who has worked developing innovative solutions with state government to the table to make sure that we recover in a way that lifts everyone up. Thank you. Thank you, Tony. It's all right. Great. So our third question is about priorities. What are your specific priorities for the next biennium? What is the most important piece of legislation the House can take up? And why? Tom, do you want to take a whack at this one first? Okay, the most important piece of legislation is going to be the budget for the next biennium. And yeah, the experts have said that in the next two fiscal years, the revenues are going to be impacted very badly based on the COVID situation and response. So that's going to be the most critical thing. There can be an kind of an automatic indication or impulse for folks to in the legislature to think that while we're going to have to find a revenue source, change the name for it, call it an assessment, a fee or whichever, but it's really a tax and that would make a bad situation worse. That would be the last thing that we could do. So we have to work really, really hard, harder probably than has been done in a long time on the budget and check every piece of it, make it work. And similarly, Marcy said earlier, it really needs to be like a family because a family just can't go on credit. They need to pay their bills and they need to spend what they do have coming in. So that's the most important thing in my view. Great. Thank you. I really apologize. I realized that my timing was off here and I neglected V to let you answer the question before. So let me just cycle back here to the second question, which is about impact. What will be different for the people of your district or state as a whole because you have been elected. So forgive me and take it away V. That's all right. No harm, no foul. Things to be different is the value of compromisation. Those experiences really taught me there are certain ways to do things. There can be better ways to do things, but sometimes when you have multiple groups of people, especially in a legislature, you have to figure out ways to balance all viewpoints. Since you need at least a majority vote on most things anyways. So being able to always see the bigger picture, being able to compromise and sometimes you need to know when to fold those cards, so to speak. Also knowing how things are getting done. So I come with an economics degree. So knowing how your impacts not only impacts other people, but how it impacts you yourself, other people in the short term and in the long term. I think that's some of the things that we've neglected for quite some time is looking at the broader picture and looking at the long term picture. So I think some of the things that hopefully with my election day we'll be able to at least keep an eye on what are we doing, not just in the short term, but in the long term and is this sustainable? You know, so that's my answer to number two. Thank you. Again apologies on that one. And we are back to question three priorities. What are your specific priorities for the next biennium? Mary Beth? Yes, I am particularly, particularly concerned about women, about single moms, those who have children with disabilities, black, indigenous people of color, women who work hourly jobs. There was just a study that came out last week on the women in the workplace and it's projected that one in four women are planning to downshift their career or leave the workforce during COVID right now and that is incredibly alarming. They are pressed beyond measure because their jobs have limited flexibility. They have kiddos at home doing school work. A lot of them have primary care of children and there's unaffordable access to child care. So I feel really strongly that if we want our economy to recover we must have a constellation of systems in place. This is a workforce development approach. We need high quality, accessible, affordable child care. We need paid family and medical leave so women can take time off to have children and take care of their infirm elders and we need broadband statewide and in our downtown districts and business hubs in order to attract people from outside of Vermont to come and live here and work remotely. COVID really exposed the digital divide and the inequities so I feel like we need to think about workforce development differently than we have in the past. It's child care. It's getting women back to work. It's getting 50 percent of the population engaged in meaningful livable wage work that is going to grow our economy and attract people from out of state. Great. Thank you Mary Beth. Tonya you're up next about your priorities. Thank you. First and foremost we need to ensure that our continued coping and recovery from COVID is centered on our people, local communities, and local small business economy. We need to use this as an opportunity to build an economic system that does not leave more than 60 percent of Vermonters unable to afford an unexpected $500 expense. We need to build on the groundwork that has already been laid in this unprecedented biennium with bold leadership to fight for economic, racial, social, and environmental justice. We can only do this by recognizing that all of these issues are intersectional and that our solutions must also be intersectional. We can create a bold transformative change on many policy fronts simultaneously to make Vermont a place where people can thrive. I would focus on a comprehensive framework of policies to shift us towards a just and sustainable economic model and the primary focus of my work would be working towards universal healthcare, fair and livable wages, paid family leave, affordable housing and child care, and fully funding our colleges and post-secondary training programs so that we can build a workforce to transition to just and sustainable energy and really welcome young people and keep young people here. I don't think that we can make changes on the backs of people who are already struggling. We need to revitalize our economy in a way that focuses on meeting the needs of all people. Thank you, Tonya. Vy, your priorities. Well, the current priority would be definitely the upcoming state budget, school budget, and also the state budget. You know, code has definitely done it works on everyone's finances, businesses, and people. And so with the host state revenue down, as I said, someone has probably come up with ways to raise revenue, but I think that's going to be a very dangerous street to go down, especially since, you know, it's very hard to take money out of something that doesn't have money. So definitely getting the budget fixed, you know, reconciling the state expenses so that we can keep the budget down, not just for not just for today, but also for tomorrow. And then also on the school budget, too, because you know, school budgets keep growing up. They've been rejected in various towns over the last couple years for a variety of reasons. So it needs to be another look at that, figure out how we can reconcile those school budgets, too, and not just cutting and cutting everything. And, for example, to like say teachers pensions or anything, but making sure the property tax are aligned with school budgets and that school budgets and school districts are well equipped to do so. So those would be my two biggest priorities, school budget and the state budget. Great, thank you. Reese, we wrap this one up, your priorities. Well, I agree with Tom that the budget is very serious right now, or lack thereof. We're in serious deficit, and we need to work on that first. And then everything else will start falling into place. If you don't have money to focus on all the other programs, then there's no point in continuing because it just puts our deficit even into an even worse situation. Beyond working on the budget, well, I'll go back to that because we need to look at every single program that is being provided with state money, every single program and see where there could be waste. We could take a look at anything that is maybe not necessary. You know, we're all going to have to tighten our belts for a while because there just is no money out there. And the population is aging, and a lot of people are leaving the state. And in fact, many of the high wage earners and the people that can pay higher taxes are now leaving the state. I hear that constantly. People want to get out of here because of the incredible taxes. And so we need to really look at everything that is being, that money is being spent on and see where we can tighten our belts. Beyond that, my understanding is that they're, and this was mentioned earlier, but there are families that are struggling because they can't really afford the proper childcare. And then I've heard from the daycare centers that they don't get paid enough to take care of people's children. So it's okay. Thanks, Maurice. They'll wrap that one up there. But the good news for all of you folks who love talking about the budget, which is most of you, if that is the next question. And it's absolutely critical, I think, in the eyes of voters and also the folks who created these questions, given possibly unprecedented revenue and expense challenges, as several of you have mentioned, how specifically you get to delve in a little more deeply, will you propose approaching the budget? Is it important to balance the state budget? And how would you do it? And Mary Beth, we'll start this one off with you. Okay. Thank you. Well, first, I want to say that the legislature and the administration have been incredibly responsible in balancing the state budget, even though they're not legally required to do so. They worked together. We did that this year in four to five weeks. We created a balanced budget each 9.69, which was an incredible collaboration across committees across the Senate and the House. And we did not dip into our rainy day fund for fiscal year 21, which is actually incredible when you think about it. Our House and Senate appropriations, we have incredible minds on those committees across party. And they did amazing work in working with committees to figure out how to backfill revenue with some of the federal dollars that we received. We received 1.25 billion from the federal government. We received the second highest per capita federal dollars in the entire nation. So 1.25 billion. And a lot of that was used to backfill revenues and to kind of creatively move money around so that we didn't dip into our rainy day fund. And we actually have a good standing in terms of our rainy day fund. We score better than any state in New England, except for Connecticut. We have 50 days of revenue stored. New York has like half a day of revenues in their rainy day fund. So we have, you know, despite all of the rumor mill that we have been irresponsible, it's actually in my experience now that I'm at the table, not the case. The pension situation is a whole other story. So we'll talk, we can talk more about that later. Okay. Great. Thank you. Tanya? I would echo what Mary Beth has said. The legislature worked long and hard this session to balance the budget, and we need to approach budgeting with information about what our state needs. And given the current crisis, we know the needs of remonters are likely to be high in the coming months and years, and we will have to be creative and innovative about how we approach meeting those needs. Given the projected budget shortfalls, we need to work to create diversified funding approaches that are paid into equitably, and we need to resist the desire to cut necessary services and supports to our most vulnerable remonters. We are currently well poised to weather this economic fallout due to the smart prior investments in reserve rainy day funds. And I would say that this is a rainy day, and we need to utilize these funds to make direct investments into our people and local economies. We know from history that when we invest in those who need it most, that money stays in our local budget, stays in our local communities, and our economy bounces back faster. So we need to invest proactively in supporting people so that we decrease the use of expensive and damaging reactive emergency services. We have seen that this kind of prevention has an upfront cost, but over time it saves money, and it allows us to build stronger, more sustainable communities and economies. I've seen this in my work with individuals as well. When we put investment into prevention and support for their immediate needs, we prevent the expensive need for services down the road. Thank you, Tonya. Okay, Vy, you are up next on this question of the budget. Yes, I think it's always important to have a balanced budget. So, and of this coming budget being balanced today, tomorrow, and forever on. So one of the things that we can always look at is, you know, where's the money coming from and where you should be going. And to look at all the programs that do run are running and what they're using their money for. So not only that, you know, could their money be used somewhere else that saves slightly more important or more important. You start looking down the individual programs and say, what can we say cut for today and bring back tomorrow? And what do we know that we cannot actually cut because the importance of it is way too high? Or cutting it causes too much downstream repercussions. So with that, it really would have to be on a case-by-case basis to say. And we're currently doing this COVID, COVID all revenues down. So it's one of those situations where everything has to be looked at. And the whole belt tightening will have to, will have to happen. Saying that we can borrow money from the federal government is nice. But even that has its own problems too. And if that's the idea of what we want to do is, you know, bounce our own budget by borrowing from the federal government, I feel like that brings a whole set of other problems in the future. Thank you. Okay. Maurice? Well, again, the budget is the absolute highest necessity to work on. I think we need to, as I mentioned earlier, we need to look everywhere for any place where we can decrease the spending. There's a lot of unnecessary spending. The charity that's involved is wonderful, but the state can no longer afford so much charity. We also need to take a look at how we can make Vermont more business friendly. We need to attract businesses and attract families with children that will help with the tax structure. And my understanding too is that right now a lot of families are moving in from out of state, but a lot of leaving, a lot of people are leaving from the state. So we really need to see where, where the obstacles are to bringing good businesses, good paying businesses into the state. That's really about it. We just, we must work on alleviating the taxes and raising taxes is absolutely not possible, right? Not right now, not in this atmosphere. And I think something that may come up in a later question, but it's time to get people to work. You know, there are a lot of people that, that have not been able to work and have been paid by the government, but it's time to open up our businesses and let people in. And of course, maintaining the social distancing, but the colleges have been doing very well. They've had no big outbreaks since, since opening. And so it's possible. Thanks. Great. Thank you. And Tom, you are going to wrap this one up, the budget. Okay, thank you. As a candidate for the house to be become a member of the legislature, you obviously don't have the actual numbers and all the reports available to you, or you don't work with them on a regular basis. But some of the things that someone who's running is going to are going to ask is we have the second smallest population in Vermont in the entire country. Our fiscal year 2019 budget was $6 billion. And my understanding from headlines recently is that this recently passed one was $7 billion. So one has to look at that and wonder, you know, is that appropriate for a size, the size population that we do have? And then we do have the problems that play into this of a shrinking workforce. And that is a huge problem. So yes, it's going back to childcare. We do have to strengthen that and make sure that that works for the young families that need that because we need them more than ever now. You know, we, we, our median income is somewhere in the middle for our families in the country. It's not great. But our tax burdens are always at the top. They really are. And that historically has been going on for decades. And we have to change that. The other piece when you, when you look at that is our cost of living. And for a small state up here, we, we do have a high cost of living. So when you put all of those together, that plays right into the budget. We really need to have a budget that is not going to demand a lot of money from Vermonters and it's going to run our state in an efficient way. Thank you. Thanks, Tom. Susan, could I make a request? Could we each have 30 seconds to, to kind of go around and respond to some of what we've heard? I just think there's so much here. Yes. If you're willing. Yep. Anybody who would like it now is the time. And Marybeth, do you want to start? That'd be great. Thanks. Just a couple of things that I've heard that I feel it's important to, you know, respectfully push back on the notion that lots of Vermonters and wealthy Vermonters are moving out of state. The actual data shows that that is not happening, that people who, you know, have high per capita's are actually staying put and willing to pay people who have the means. The other thing I wanted to say is the 7.2 billion increase that included in that budget a lot of cares money. So that's why it's much higher. It wasn't an infusion of extra, extra spending. It was, it was cares money that was wrapped into that budget. And then the other thing I want to say is I have a niece at UVM. She's a freshman. And the reason the, the rates are so low there are that they're all wearing masks, they're socially distancing, and they're not having parties. So they're following all the CDC guidelines. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks. If you want an extra 30 seconds at this point to address anything we've talked about in the past, you're welcome to. Tanya, do you want to do that? Yeah, I'd like to echo what Mary Beth has said about who is leaving the state. There was a study that came out in the spring that actually showed that the demographic that's most leaving this state are young people and minimum wage workers. They're the people who are struggling the most and the people that we need to invest in supporting. I would agree that we can drastically shift the way we are structuring things to bring in the revenue we need while simultaneously lifting people up and not budgeting on the backs of people who already can barely get by. I work in the school system and I would also, you know, we are actually starting to see some increases. Oh, okay. Thanks. 30 seconds. This is thankfully short. Marie, do you want to take a whack? I do. The point that I was making Mary Beth is that, and everyone else, is that it is possible with following the social distancing guidelines in the masks, it's possible to get back to work. It doesn't just have to be success at UVM. It can be success in the workplace. And it's just time to get our economy moving again. Okay. Thank you. V? Pass? Okay. Tom, did you want to follow up? Yeah, just I understand that we did receive a large amount of money in the CARES Act and that's been, I lost track of the number of stimuluses that the federal government is doing, but I'd say that's going to end one day. And I do also want to say, are we at a level here that we need to be spending that amount of money and we're in the $6 billion, now the $7 billion continues. And then I'd like to point out that seems to be a fact that's lost on a lot of folks that talk about government spending money is that the same citizens pay the federal taxes that the government spends as they pay the state taxes. So it's all coming from the same group of people. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Okay. All right. We will move on to the fifth question, which is about education. Some of you have mentioned this already. The legislature can make impacts on how education is funded statewide in Vermont. Do you see the need for changes and how we fund education and how would you use your office to move changes forward? Tonya? Yeah. Thank you. I do believe we need to change the structure of our current education funding model. While Vermont does fund its education system in one of the most fair and equitable ways, there's still work to be done. Currently about two-thirds of Vermonters pay their education taxes in an income sensitive way, but there's still a third that do not. I believe that by unlinking education funding from property taxes and asking that all Vermonters pay their fair share based on their income, we would have a more transparent system. We would alleviate one of the affordability burdens and we would make our schools more equitable and able to meet the needs of the students. This model was projected, I believe, it was in 2016 to increase education funds by nearly $80 million. Money that could be spent to expand early education, invest in our teachers and the infrastructure that we know is needed in many of our aging school buildings and structures. I would use my office to work with our education sector to really lift this issue up and fight to make this a more affordable and equitable system. All right, Bea? I don't think we need to fundamentally change the way schools are funded. I know for school budgets, they tend to, school budgets require a stable funding practice. So since a lot of them, school budgets and school districts project not only in current year, but in current year and years down the line. So being able to have a revenue stream that is relatively stable is very key to their school budget to do projections. So if they know they're going to get $40 million, they should be able to expect it to be around that much, plus or minus some differences and variance, of course. So I don't think we should churn out drastically or really fundamentally change that, but I think once the school budget there, instead of it being a state where I need to come down to the districts themselves, I think they're the best, the local communities really are in touch with what their students need and what the innovations are and what really works and doesn't work for them. So I do think the legislature can help the individual school districts by making the whole system more transparent and giving them a much more better guideline so that there's more wiggle room for the individual districts themselves. Districts are not all the same. Now the district of the Essex-Westford district is not the same thing as the Brownton district and their revenue stream is not exactly the same. Great. Maurice, education. Okay, thank you. Really right now the education system or taxpayers pay $20,000 per pupil from K to 12. And this is totally unsustainable. Right now at the same time, there are fewer students and the amount of money that's paid to teachers and programs does not go down. And so we just can't continue this. So my plan would be to first of all, again, look at all the programs and see what can be eliminated. I repeat, we must learn to tighten our budgets. And I would prefer to see some social programs, not all of them of course, but some social programs removed and given preference to the basic learning skills that requires to make a future responsible citizen. I'm also not against a voucher program so that parents that have lost their jobs can get some immediate relief by staying home and teaching their children. So there are various ways that we can work on the education system to improve things both in our wallets and even in the family. Thank you, Maurice. Tom? Yes, on education, highly complicated issue. Not a simple question. I think we can go into the next hour with this, but we won't be able to. It's important to understand the history to in Vermont is that it was local control and you mentioned that just a minute ago about the flexibility that comes with local control. It was local control until 1997. And it was actually through a court suit to sue to change that in which the state then became the collector of all the tax revenues around the state. And then you got more complicated with the gold towns and all of these issues that are coming up. The important thing going forward is we do spend a great deal of money and we want to spend money, but money doesn't always translate to success. We want a successful education system first and we want to spend it, but we need to see what we can do to be more efficient in how we do spend it. And we can't ignore the fact that our K through 12 student body is declining. The number of students is declining on a regular basis now. So we do have to adapt to that. And then once again, throw COVID in and the roadblocks have been thrown up for our educators and how we're adapting to that is going to be a huge issue. So we look at all the proposals that will be an ongoing issue that all of us in the legislature would have to work on. All right. Mary Beth, Education Funding. Yeah, I appreciate Tom's point that this is incredibly complex because that's one of the takeaways from my first session is just how complex it is. I want to say first off that we have the Essex delegation has really strong relationships with our local school board and administrators. So we are in regular communication and coordination with them all the time. And I'm proud of our district. We were one of the first to merge and come together to attempt to save re-economies of scale. So I'm proud that we were a leader in that regard. Investing in our children is investing in our future as a state. We absolutely have to find a way to live within our means, but we can't cut our way out of this. You know, we've been pushing mergers between various communities. As you see in the news, it's a very, very tricky thing. There are communities with very small numbers of students that do not want to consolidate. So it's, you know, and the local control. We try to give as much local control and not pass down mandates as much as possible. I personally believe that we need to uncouple the funding of education from property taxes. I think that we need more of a progressive income tax-based system. The number one thing I hear when I go to door-to-door is concern about property taxes. So we need to figure out a way to pay for our education system that's not on the backs of people with fixed incomes. Thank you. All right. We are going to switch gears here and talk about health care. The increasing cost of health care, as several of you have mentioned, putting pressure on Vermonters and the state's economy. COVID, of course, has sharpened our focus on inequities in health care. What is next for health care changes in Vermont? And as specific as you can on this one. And we will start with B. Well, health care is probably just as complicated, if not more complicated than the education question. There is no short-term solution because the health care thing is there is no magic wand that can be waved or will be waved so it can fix it. One important piece of the puzzle, I think, is that our health care needs, we need way more choices. We know just in general competition tends to drive both quality and prices down, quality of prices down. But that also runs into the whole problem of that our health care A is a profit-based, which is not really the problem. The problem is our population does not incentivize more choices for everyone. There aren't a whole lot of health care providers here anyways. So the idea that we can pass more meaningful regulations and other things to bring more providers here, it goes, well, we don't have the population base for that. So I think we need to rethink the center structure our state regulations do have so we can expand the market and by expansion maybe start looking at other states. And one thing that was discussed and I've said to some others is that maybe a collective pool, the health care pool, like a New England system or the Northeast system, I know it's a little more far-fetched, but it would be better for us individually with our relatively small population. And then also with the whole regulations that we do have, we need to be very, very careful and mindful that we do not regulate insurance companies out of our state. Just doing so is just going to make our current problem worse. You know, when you have a couple major providers, well, they can charge whatever they want and you, I, everyone here, we don't have that choice. So I know we all have our, everyone has the health and everyone is going to require health care as much as I think I'm invincible. Time has been telling me that that's a lie. So, you know, the fact that we all will pay for it eventually and the idea is we need to be ready for that payment when it comes up. Great. Thank you, Bea. Okay. Maurice, health care. Well, as Bea said, that's definitely another difficult issue. First of all, I do believe in the free enterprise system, so to speak. I believe in offering competition between companies, which usually lowers the prices. And I just really feel that it's important that we consider the way health care used to be in the sense that with the choice, the different choices available in insurances, there were many people in that that were not covered, but they were still taken care of at the hospital. So there's an element that was already happening there of charity and helping the people that couldn't pay. And once again, I think it, everything becomes a vicious cycle where we need to attract businesses that attract families that bring in more money. And, you know, then we need to look at the the salaries of especially the CEOs in the hospitals. And we also need to look at this Green Mountain Care Board that is a group of unelected people that makes all the decisions that needs to be looked at also. So again, it's looking at everything that is available to us. Thank you. Thanks, Maurice. Tom. Yes, I'm sure that when everyone here looked over the questions there, we came up to the same conclusion that health care is going to take a lot of time to get through. But some of the fundamentals to think about is, yeah, I agree that, well, let's go back historically in 2011, Governor Shumlin wanted to go to a single payer system in the state of Vermont. It's not just when you talk about health care, it's not just the insurance, but that's a critical piece of it, obviously, to pay for the services that people get. But he wanted to go to that. And then he finally gave up on the issue because it was going to cost like $4 billion in the first year alone. I was just talking about the level of which our budgets are. But the Green Mountain Care Board was put into place that and the mission of that simply stated was to try to control costs, hospital costs and health care-related costs for Vermonters. And I think just recently that the word was out in the media that that hasn't happened and our costs are not going down and they're just going up. So when we look at our overall spending in Vermont and 33% is education K through 12 and then 30% becomes Medicaid for our older folks. And again, I go back to our demographics and we have older folks. So this is how critical this is. I think Open Market with some free enterprise involved in it is going to be helpful to drive prices down and price transparency. When is the last time anyone knew how much of service they were going to have to have at a hospital with costs? And if you knew what it was and what hospitals were charging, it would be helpful to us all. Thanks, Tom. Mary Beth? Yeah, I think the free market idea is a great one. However, health care or insurance companies don't want to come here and be in Vermont and all like we keep losing them. So it's a little bit of a challenge because having a more open competitive market is of course the American way. But we do everything we can to hold on to the two or three insurance companies that we have here. One of the things that I'm most proud of is I feel like with COVID, some of the work that the health care and the human services committees did right from the get go was to take care's monies and stabilize the health care system. That was number one. We really put $350 million investment there to ensure that if COVID got very severe in our state, we were well positioned to take care of Vermonters. I agree that the Green Mountain Care Board, it was founded to really keep health insurance costs down. We need to really drill down on that. Blue Cross had a 5.5% hike and MVP 6% just this year. The last thing I'll say is we're in the middle of an experiment in changing how we pay for health care in terms of the Accountable Care Organization and going from a fee for service where doctors decide what they're going to charge for to a population based model, which requires doctors to try to keep their patients well. So I feel like we need to see that through. We need to see that through, see how it goes, and then from there figure out what our next steps are. But everyone deserves health care coverage. Sorry for going over. Tanya? Thank you. I view health care as a basic human right, and I think it's our responsibility to work towards guaranteeing that right to all. And I say this as someone who has had to make health care decisions based on finances and not medical need. And I know from my work that too many have to make these choices. The legislature worked diligently to pass Act 48 in 2011, making health care a public good, and we have to come back together to figure out how to take this from an idea and make it a reality. I think there's a lot of avenues that we could look at, one of which would be exploring a regional compact to expand our risk pool and address the large shared borders, though under our current federal administration acquiring those proper permissions would be very difficult. We should also explore universal primary care with savings created by prevention earmarked for the expansion to complete universal coverage. And the COVID crisis has laid bare a fundamental problem with health care being linked to employment. Given how many lost their jobs and thus their health care, we have more people on our Medicaid system. And we could look at making an investment into keeping these people on that system while building an income sensitive long term funding mechanism to allow us to expand it to all a third of our health care dollars go towards administrative fees, many of which would be eliminated under a universal health care system. This will certainly be a complicated and difficult process. It will likely take time and real innovative thinking, but I do believe that we have the capacity and the responsibility to do so so that we can eliminate the structural challenges and inequity across the system. Okay, thank you, Tanya. Great. We will stay somewhat on the topic of health care to talking about opiates and how are we doing? Are you satisfied with the headway Vermont is making with the opiate epidemic? What else do you think must be done? And we will start with Maurice on this one. I don't believe that the opiate problem has been improved at all. In fact, I think it's getting worse and that's a combination of issues. Some of it is hopelessness, depression. A lot of it is a result of early on peer pressure and then they become addicted. One thing that has really concerned me is the passage of this marijuana bill that it has been proven that using marijuana in the beginning will quite often lead to the use of harder drugs. I've said this many times and it seems pretty simple, but why have we added another problem to our already addiction problems as in alcohol and cigarettes and a whole lot of things that we simply don't need? We were talking a few minutes ago about health care and by encouraging use of any of these substances actually adds to the cost of health care. It has been proven that with marijuana the so-called tax windfall in other states has proven to not be quite nearly enough to cover the costs of the mental psychoses and the hospitals resulting from people using marijuana, which is much more powerful than the marijuana of my day way back in the hippie days. It's a really strong drug and it's just not paying off and then there are far more accidents on the roads so overall our situation has not improved and somehow I haven't thought about it yet but it would come. I would like to have some kind of a reward system for people that will take care of their own health including drugs. Did the bell ring? I don't. Okay Tom. Sure opiate addiction. This is a long-standing problem and probably a lot longer standing than a lot of people realize. My background in law enforcement is when I retired from active duty in 2009 I was the captain in charge of all special investigations units in Vermont and the couple of years leading up to my retirement I ran the drug task forces and a couple of years leading up to my retirement we were seeing a spike of overdose related deaths from opiates and this has been around for a long time and part of I think of the general psychology of our society is that if a doctor gives you the drug it's a good thing to have and it can help you but we had that and we struggled there and legislatively and politically we struggled because there was talk about let's get a database together so that we can share the information if there are bad doctors and there are those folks that due to their illness of addiction are going around shopping doctors that we would have readily available this information that would help us combat that problem and it was just fought off by by those in power at the time so it's yeah it's still here today we just haven't heard a lot about it recently any small decline in the number of overdose deaths those deaths are still at least twice the number deaths that we're attributing to the pandemic so we've got a real lot to do and really have to take a hard honest look at it thank you Tom Mary Beth so I was honored to be selected as an opioid policy fellow for the National Council on State Governments and gather with 22 other legislators from around the country on the opioid crisis and I have to say coming back from that and interacting with all different folks this was before the COVID pandemic happened Vermont is leading the way in terms of how we deal with opioids and medication assisted treatment our laws are some of the most progressive for people trying to go into treatment so we have created a hub and spoke system which is the envy of the nation as far as decreasing wait times for people to get right into treatment within 24 hours we've also done things like worked with insurance companies in order to get rid of prior authorizations so that people can go right into treatment we've done a lot of work in our correctional facilities there is MAT medication assisted treatment in our correctional facilities most correctional facilities around the nation do not have this at all we opioids opioids are on the rise during the month of May during the pandemic nationally 42 percent increase in overdoses so this is a problem this is not a problem that's going away and it's something that we need to keep our nose to the grindstone and really continue to make treatment an easy pathway for folks thank you thanks Mary Beth Tanya opioids we have certain as Mary Beth points to we've certainly begun some really important work in this area however we have seen during this COVID crisis that overdosed deaths are on the rise and this points to the fact that we do have more work to do we need to build on the work that's already being done in our communities and the way we tackle this is through a multi pronged plan that includes harm reduction on demand treatment restorative justice and building out our intersecting systems to meet people's needs in the moment so that they're not driven to despair and considering using rather than criminalizing addiction we need to invest in the needed care support and compassion so that we don't further traumatize the people who are suffering with this illness in countries like Portugal that have decriminalized and increased support addiction has declined significantly we need to invest more in our housing first models mental health and health care as well as building out a comprehensive treatment system that gives people options in the moment when they are ready and available for treatment that are accessible from across the state okay great thank you and V your thoughts on opioids um I think uh Vermont's hub and spoke response would be crucial to our state's response capacity especially in the more rural areas uh we've seen as states saw we had seen uh decreases in opioid related deaths prior to the pandemic but I've now seen this the pandemic has exposed uh a lot more opioid abuse and addiction but not only that research has also found that many of our Vermonters are dying of overdose had at least some type of previous interaction with state agencies and I also like to say that a lot of these opioid abusers abuse deaths usually come from people who either have family issues or mental issues and that also needs to be part of their response to so moving forward I'd like to see the state agencies be more vigilant and maintain outreach for a lot of the folks so they're not slipping through and also one of the things I'd like to point out with the whole opioid abuse epidemic is historically this isn't the first time this happened I mean if many of you would have already read that I mean there were wars opium wars that raged out throughout the Middle East and uh Asia so this isn't like it's just a new thing it's been happening for quite some time especially here in America I don't know the whole opioid abuse and just drug abuse in general has been happening since probably since the 20s if not even longer I mean we've all seen the movies where um gang wars you know the drug wars where they're falling into the military getting it from Vietnam from Afghanistan so this is this problem will not go away and it has been going on and it's just slowly now bubble to the surface thank you be we are going to move on to question about race and racial equity Vermont past some racial equity legislation in the past few years are you satisfied uh that the Vermont legislature is doing enough to dismantle systemic and institutional racism in the state do you support reparations and apologizing for Vermont's role in slavery and systemic racism is the question Tom do you want to start um sure I'd like to I'd like to talk about uh Alexander Twilight and on September 23rd he was uh his birthday her birthday was honored up in uh Brownington and northeast kingdom and I'd like to point out that Vermont as a Vermont or he was born in Corinth person of color he's the first uh black man to graduate from college which was Middlebury college in in Vermont and receive a degree he was also uh then elected to the house of representatives in the state of Vermont as the first black man uh in the United States of America to do that so I think those are important things to understand also that when Vermont was it was an independent republic for one year after the revolution uh their first adopted constitution outlawed slavery and it was again the first in the nation to do that also specifying that a female slave at 18 would be free and a male slave at 21 would be free we also have a great history in uh participating in the Underground Railroad to help uh slaves free free the south and slavery and come up north during that time period so these are the types of things that I think that are getting lost here in the in the conversation that we uh we have done some very good things that led the way and then combating slavery in our history thank you tom and with apologies folks we are running short of time so if you can keep your responses to one minute that would be great um and um Mary Beth do you want to go next one minute that feels like such an injustice it is an injustice I agree to this topic I must say um we have so much work to do in this area I am a proud American I love this country and this country is founded on many premises that are not equitable for all citizens people of color have not had the same opportunities that myself as a white person have had through generations we are we are doing what we can we hired a racial equity director she's amazing she is helping to um lead numbers of conversations and efforts and increased data collection uh on race um we passed racial and social equity standards ensuring that in our schools that the stories and the histories and the perspectives of the persecuted marginalized and discriminated Vermonters including people of color are included in curriculums um all you have to do is look at the COVID numbers in Vermont communities of color are disproportionately impacted by COVID um so we need we have some serious work to do this is a priority in the coming biennium um and I am eager um to do it and and and can I just say one more thing Susan I think this is a really hard question to do a minute on it's okay what did you say it's painful I'm sorry I know I know okay well hopefully we'll have a 30 second come around because I'd like to add on I have so much more to say about this we'll see what our producers will allow us okay the legislature certainly took really important steps and as Mary Beth points to there's a lot more work to do racial inequities spans across every system and I'm so glad that we're starting to look at this seriously it's my view that until everyone has what they need and no one's oppressed we still have work to do we have to look reflectively at all of our systems and it's only when we are able to do this individually and within our structures policies and systems that we can truly realize the dream of freedom and justice for all we need to listen to the communities being most harmed by racial injustice take their lead lift their voices and enact policies like reparations and mandated regular equity training for all state employees organizations receiving state funding and professions like social work that have the power to do social harm within the structures of power that are in place and we need to continue to engage in a dialogue about community safety for all while looking to reimagine a public safety system that ensures all of our community members have what they need and our criminal justice system thank you V your thoughts yeah I think yeah Vermont as well was many of the states in our country should be held should acknowledge you know the perpetuation of slavery in the systemic racism we had I think Vermont was it is was a pioneering state in the abolition movement and has to have certainly been a very welcoming place so and it's also very important that Vermont is also engaged in this and in the conversations about dismantling the whole systems of oppression and a lot of systemic laws are still on the books so I think it's important we have meaningful discussions and oh was that a bell nope okay not quite yet 15 more seconds I've already lost my chain of thought so I'll end this here okay thank you V and Maurice well I think looking at our history you know Vermont in the past has really not been a huge racist state because it's been largely white and it was just an issue that that didn't come up all that much and Tom's story about Mr. Twilight was very interesting and I need I think we need to look at the three categories here reparations the role in slavery and systemic racism first of all I'll answer the first one reparations I don't think is necessary because racism is rooted in a lot of emotional trauma and I don't think throwing money at someone over emotional trauma ever really helps not usually and as far as our role in slavery we really haven't been involved all that much systemic racism I think it has come about a whole lot more into focus because the current culture has brought this up as something big bad and horrible and it is if it is as bad as they say it is but I just don't believe that it's okay this is a difficult difficult one I'm looking for guidance from our producers why don't we just go ahead and do 30 seconds each and if they cut us off they'll cut us off do you want to start Mary Beth sure thank you Susan I honestly participating in some of the conversations in Essex there have been a lot of local conversations around policing and racial justice and having a company to family in friendship for 16 years in this community I would never dream there was an issue except through hearing their experiences and living through their own eyes and experiences having my friend who wears a hijab and is black standing out getting her mail on River Road and being harassed when she would stand out there these stories are real and they're happening in our community so we need to kind of wake up and really start to address them as people thanks Mary Beth okay Tanya 30 seconds yeah absolutely I as I was saying we need to address the inequity seen within our criminal justice system as well as every other system as a person whose partner is a person of color I will say that these stories are real and walking alongside him has showed me that in Vermont we are not immune to racism or systemic racism and that we do have to lift up the voices of the people who are having these experiences and center them in any answer and solution we have thank you thanks B 30 seconds yes I think it's important that we do talk about these things and not go on the on the side of misremembrance and the disremembrance of things that have been done history is always important you know those who do not pay attention to history are doomed to repeat it and so as long as we can remember what was happened and improve upon you know look forward to look forward keep moving forward but to always keep an eye on the back it's a system that is insidious and it is very hard to root out but one that must be rooted out thank you marise well may I clarify I was trying to say that it's not that the situation does not exist it does but because the current culture has created something to be much bigger than it is I think that we just need to know I mean there's a culture of hate and we need now to promote a culture of respectfulness and and kindness towards each other and if we work towards those goals then let's hope that we can reverse human nature just a little bit thank you marise and the final 30 seconds tom yes thank you it it you know racism is a part the ugly part of human nature and it does exist it's important as we make we make laws we make motions and we we make rules for our state and our society that where they're based in fact and they're not based on a motion or headlines or other things that would would make someone react in a knee jerk fashion so it's a highly complicated where legislation should be crafted very intelligently and it should take time thank you thanks all of you for these thoughtful responses we left a bunch of questions on the table of course as always the time time allows but I think hopefully voters got a sense of the range of perspectives and what their options are so thank you again and thanks thanks for running and thanks to everyone for joining us