 Great, so I'm here at the IOM Council with Greg Maniatis, who's no stranger to us. He's been speaking about the, talking about the global compact. For the man or the woman on the bus, what does it all mean? If it's successful, it means less chaos in the movement of people across the borders like we've seen over the past two years, less fear as a consequence both from the part of migrants and from the part of receiving societies. We're seeing a lot of that because we're seeing not just chaos but tragically deaths along the migratory route, and we're seeing huge disruption in the political space. Absolutely. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about how you think that all happens or why it happens. Well, you cannot address the fear until you reduce the chaos. People are scared when change happens quickly and change happens seemingly outside the control of governments and of the law. And so that gives rise to both fear and eventually to prejudice and exclusion. And so until you are able to come up with a system that allows people to move safely and securely and that allows them to integrate into societies, you're going to face that kind of reaction which we're seeing in many countries around the world. So on the one hand, people want to move because they want to better their lives. They want to get out of a difficult spot. What's the future for that? Are you going to see more barriers, more fortress Europe, more controls? Is there a happier medium? There is a happier medium. I mean, I think it's human nature to move. Everyone in this room has moved probably 50 times across the border this year alone or at least 10 or 20 times. So it's human nature to want to move but it's also human nature to want to feel secure both in that movement and in your community. What we haven't done enough of is create legal ways for people to move and successful ways for people to integrate into new communities. And as a result, people are throwing up their hands and saying no more. And until we come up with those better ways to move and better ways to integrate we won't have a reduction of fear and we will continue to have societies reacting against immigration. So we need better ways to move but do we also need better ways to communicate about the movement of people so that you don't get this big identity clash and people feeling that it's a clash of civilizations. How do we square that circle? So I think we square that circle by bringing newcomers into contact with natives as much as we can in simple ways for a night to have dinner with them or in more involved ways like we see for instance in Canada where we have a private sponsorship program that brings in refugees under the wing of natives for a year and helps them integrate. Contact between natives and newcomers that's structured and allows them to understand each other's point of view. Can that happen in a political climate when our media, our newspapers are so toxic towards migrants? How do we even get to start to have this conversation? It's already happening. I think that that toxic conversation is there obviously but it also makes people uncomfortable. Even somebody who is afraid also knows that that's not who they are exclusively. They're also generous and kind and they're people who welcome you experiences but fear prevails. Even now we see a very strong outpouring of support for refugees around the world. We do indeed. Thank you very much Greg. My pleasure. Thanks a lot.