 whom the sun sets free is free indeed. I hope that you are free today. We're gonna be talking about that. Welcome to Hope Today. I'm Tom Hollis. I'm here with Anna Frye. Anna, we are free in Christ. We've got a great guest coming up. We are free indeed. And today we have a guest that many of you are familiar with. Ginger Duggar Volo is the sixth child in the famous TLC show, 19 Kids and Counting and Counting On. She recently released her story of becoming free indeed. If you've ever felt embonded to religious rules instead of the freeing love of Jesus, her story is for you. She joins us in just a few minutes to share how to disentangle your faith and truly live in freedom. Tom, this is a big deal to break out of the rules-based religion and truly enjoy the rest and love of Jesus. It really is a big deal. I like that word disentangle because we are always trying to make a religion. I don't know what it is about human beings. We love religion. We love to make what should be a freedom and should be something Anna that is just a fantastic freeing, open, wonderful relationship. We like to make it rules, regulations. We like to make it, you know, it sounds funny for me to say that we like to do that, but we run to that. For some reason, people, we tend to run to what, give me the check off list of things to be approved by God and then I'll be fine. Yeah, right? Because I think as human beings, we have this tendency to desire control. Like if we can just check off all the boxes, then we are pleasing God, we're in line with God, but we fall short every single day and we can exhaust ourselves trying to be good enough to be in that pleasing presence of the Lord. But when we grasp the revelation that it's because of what Jesus did on the cross for us, that he took all of that to the grave, that when he rose back up and we accept him, that we are clothed in his righteousness. And so that when Jesus looks at you, he sees the perfect righteousness of Christ. And in that is true freedom. It's amazing grace for a reason, right? It's amazing grace. Well, it's gonna be a great conversation. We're gonna be sharing a little later about the freedom we have in Christ. Right now, we wanna do something that, we're commanded in scripture to pray for the peace of Jerusalem and there is much going on in Israel right now. Terroristic threats, unrest in the government. There's a threat from Iran. So Anna, this is something, quite often we don't think about it here on the other side of the world, but we're commanded to pray for Israel. Yeah, we are commanded to do that because as we see in scripture, like from the beginning of time, the Hebrews, the people, God's chosen people in Israel, those were his people. And so the enemy is always after those whom God has chosen and loved, which is all of us, but Israel through biblical history, we know that there has always been this target, like the attacks to just have that unrest and bring in that fear. Right, and so why don't you join us now? Let's take a moment, let's pray for Israel, pray for the peace of Jerusalem. So Father, we come before you and we ask, Lord God, that you would pour down your grace and mercy upon Israel, Lord. I pray for protection for that nation, Lord, against terroristic threats, against bombings, against Iran and its neighbors, so many of whom, all of whom, are sworn to destroy Israel and to try to wipe it off the map. Lord, we pray that you build a hedge of protection around them, Lord, that nothing shall by any means harm them, Lord. I pray, Father, for the peace of Jerusalem, that Jerusalem would have peace and it would become a joy in the earth and that those in Israel, Father, would know Jesus as their Lord and savior as well, Father. We just ask that you pour out your mercy, grace and love on Israel today. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen, continue to do that, just lift up Israel and bring Israel to the Lord. Yes, well, we're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, Ginger Duggar Volo joins us to share her story of becoming free indeed. Cornerstone Television has believed in the power prayer sits in Synception 44 years ago. We invest heavily in our prayer line to provide you with 24-7 personal prayer, knowing it brings breakthrough, healing and wisdom. Last year alone, we received over 65,000 prayer calls. And if you had partnered with us, thank you so very much. And when you give this month, I am so excited to share with you my new book, Praying On Another Level. It's a 30-day journal to take your prayer life to a new dimension in God. You see prayer as how we separate good ideas from God ideas. It's how we unlock the door to revelation. And it's where we get our strength to build up our spirit man to hear from God throughout our day. All that and so much more. So call us now at 888-665-4483 or give at ctvn.org forward slash donate to request your copy. It is time to take your prayer life to another level. Our guest today, Ginger Duggar Volo is the sixth child in the famous TLC show, 19 Kids and Counting and Counting On. She joins us to share how she began to question the unhealthy ideology of her youth and learn to embrace true freedom in Christ. So Ginger, welcome to hope today. Thank you so much for having me. We're just so excited to dig into your new book and all the things that are on your heart to share. Your book Becoming Free indeed has gotten so much buzz. I know I have friends that cannot wait to hear all that you have. And so share a little bit. What is your heart behind writing this book? Yeah, I first had the idea to write this book because I had been walking out of some teachings from following a man, Bill Gothard, who claimed to have all these answers for a life but it just wasn't working out. And so I started to see these things weren't lined up with the Bible and it really challenged me. And I realized that so many other people were struggling with the same things that I was and maybe they didn't have the resources or the help to come out of it. And so I had a passion, a real desire to see others come to know the true, who truly Jesus was, not just to a teacher said he was. And in a lot of those burdens that I was carrying, I was able to lay down the weights of legalism, of man-made rules. I was able to lay those down once I saw who Jesus truly was in his word. And I desired for others to be able to come to that freedom in Jesus as well. Well, the Lord truly has given you such a platform to be able to speak the truth of the gospel. We see in our generations this deconstruction of the faith becoming such a trendy thing where they're such digging into deconstructing that so many are actually leaving their faith. But you say you're not deconstructing, you are disentangling. What is the difference? Yeah, so sadly so many have turned to that deconstruction movement that is very prevalent in today's time. But for me, I was wrestling with a lot of these, things that I was taught from a very early age and trying to figure out, okay, well, if this teacher says that this is how I'm gonna please God over here, and I don't see it in the word of God, then that needs to just be gone out of my life. That understanding of how God operates, like God's waiting to get me at any turn if I step outside of some box I didn't even know existed. So for that, it was interesting. I started to examine the word of God and to see, okay, well, I wanna know what God's word actually says. That way I can find freedom in the truth. But it's really hard to do that whenever you've been taught maybe a verse that a teacher's taught you that binds you and you feel like there's so much confusion there. It's hard to set that aside and still run to Jesus. And I felt like that was a challenge for me throughout the word of God because this teacher, Bill Gothard, had taught so many things that were outside of scripture but he would try to take a verse of the Bible to make it say whatever he wanted it to say. So for me, once I realized, okay, this teacher is not teaching me the word of God. He's not a Bible teacher. Then from there, going to the word of God and seeing what, comparing what he would say with the Bible was freeing for me, but it just took a lot of time. And I give this illustration because I feel like it's helpful whenever you get putty stuck in your hair, then you can totally just buzz your head, get rid of the putty, or you can take the time. It's painful, it's hard to pick out that putty and to keep your hair. And that's the same type of thing that I've been on this journey of disentangling, picking apart the truth from the error and clinging to Jesus. And that is my hope for anyone who has been in a place where they're just all mixed up in confusion. They have no clue what is up from down because of someone they followed who they felt was speaking the words of God but really wasn't, that they would just run to the Bible, run to the word of God, even in that brokenness and pain that they would find the true grace of Jesus. Yeah, the word is where it's at. Truly reading and understanding, studying the word of God. So you mentioned Bill Gothard a lot and his basic life principle teachings. For those of us who are not familiar with Bill Gothard, can you give just a little bit of background of where he sort of rose to fame and some of his basic life principles? Yeah, so Bill Gothard came on the scene in the 60s and 70s promising families a guarantee for success. So he said, if you follow my seven basic life principles then God will bless your life. But if you don't, then your life will be one disaster after another. And like I said, it's such an interesting time in the 60s and 70s. Parents were terrified that their kids were gonna get involved in sex, drugs and rock and roll. And in that time, there was so much chaos, confusion. So parents were looking for something, a black and white answer for how their kids could thrive and succeed in the day and not fall into these traps of the world around them. So he said that he had the answers. And so parents would flock to these seminars. He would fill up massive stadiums of people who would come to hear his seminars. And I think in the early days, maybe it was harder to tell what he was actually saying because some of it sounded decently okay. He would say a couple of good things about we need to have good character in these days where kids are rejecting all authority and we need to submit ourselves to authority. And authority is a good thing. God has designed authorities, governments, even parental authority to an extent. But Bill Gother would take it a step further and would say, okay, therefore your kids need to stay at home to be under your authority. There are umbrellas of authority. They need to stay at home until they're married. Girls can never work outside the home. And so you would have all of these rules that he would add on that were not in the Bible. Bible was silent about those things, but parents held to that as their hope as opposed to just holding to the word of God as sufficient and enough to give their kids what they needed for life and godliness. So share with us a little bit how that played out for you as a young child growing up in that home. It was interesting. I think that I wrestled with a lot of fear because it was, these teachings were based really on fear, superstition, manipulation and control. So my mind was, okay, I want to glorify God. Once I was a believer at the age of 14, everything shifted and I was like, I really want to know God. I want to read the Bible. I want to share Jesus with my friends. And that shifted, but the thing that I couldn't figure out was, okay, well, what does God expect of me? Because when you're in a place that's so filled with man-made rules, it's easy just to do those things and think, okay, now I'm getting favor with God. As opposed to realizing, okay, my heart is transformed. It longs to obey God. So I want to go to his word and see what God's word says. But there were so many of these rules in my head that it was hard for me to figure out which were man-made rules, which ones were and which ones were actually the word of God. So I remember some wrestling's even in, like how long should I read the Bible? Maybe for three hours. Maybe I should read it for two hours. I would feel like it was un-spiritual to sit down and watch a movie with my family or to go play a sport with my siblings. Maybe I need to stay home because I had this feeling I was supposed to stay home. And I would be terrified and in fear, the superstition thinking, okay, if I leave right now, God could kill me in a car accident because maybe I wasn't supposed to go. So it was all left up to me to figure out what I was supposed to do instead of just going to the word of God and saying, okay, I love Jesus. I want to obey him. And I need to also have fun with my siblings sometimes because then I'm not even loving them well. I can't even get to know my siblings because I'm a recluse reading the Bible 24-7. So there was a lot of imbalance and a lot of fear and uncertainty in my heart. Right. And so when did this shift begin to happen? There were a couple of key people that came into your life. Yeah, my brother-in-law, Ben, I began to notice that his family did some things a little different than us and they allowed their daughters to go to college, work outside the home. There were some smaller things like that that were big in my mind or wear pants or maybe the way that their church handled the word of God was different than our church. And they would go verse by verse through the Bible and look at the context of the word of God as a whole as opposed to just constantly picking out verses here and there to make it say what you wanted it to say. So I started to notice there was a difference but then also because Bill Godford had said that your life will be a success if you follow these principles but a disaster if you don't then I realized, okay, well, their lives aren't perfect but they're not falling apart like he promised. What's happening here? And how can they still love Jesus and be so committed to the word of God and be okay? So there were some of these things that I began to see but it wasn't until my now husband Jeremy came on the scene. He grew up in a different setting as well not around Bill Godford's principles and he had such a heart devotion to Jesus that I had never seen before. And I was so attracted to that. I really wanted to see more of, to have more of that love for God myself that was driven from like a heart motive not something that was outward and just the externals but he truly knew Jesus, he knew the Bible, he knew his word and I remember telling my mom when I was first interested in Jeremy I said, I feel safe with him. And it's not because of anything crazy that I think I would have held to before like, oh yes, he holds to these principles therefore I feel safe with him but he was totally outside of that which should have made me scared but it didn't because I saw his love for Jesus. So Ginger, for somebody who is feeling like they're just trapped in a set of rules or they're wondering if what they're hearing from church or from other Christian leaders is biblical how would you guide them to truly find that freedom and truth? Yeah, I would say it all comes down to going back to the word of God and examining it according to the word of God like the Bereans they would not just take in everything they heard and not open their Bibles and see if it was true but that's what I feel like so many today can easily do, we can all do that at times where it's like, okay, well I trust this teacher so I'm just gonna sit there and listen to what they have to say instead of like opening our Bibles and examining it with the word of God to see if it is true and I think reading the Bible as a whole in context will give a lot of help and direction in that because that was something that I think I was so comfortable just picking out a verse like don't wear that which pertains to a man, okay? So therefore I have to wear skirts at all times and thinking that's what I have to do to glorify God or picking out a verse about like some beat and it's like drums are sinful. Okay, well, where do you get that from? Where is it in the word of God? And so examining those things according to the Bible when you do then you can see, okay, well that's not founded in the word of God it's a man's opinion and I think the more that we're in the word of God the more that God reveals that to us through his word and I think that's something that I saw the more I was in the word of God it made me more excited because I started to have a bigger view of God as opposed to like, okay, I'm gonna see myself in every text of scripture, it was different, it shifted it was like, wow, God is such a great God he's all powerful I can see his work throughout history and throughout the world not to say the God's word doesn't speak to us at certain times like there are things where it's like, oh man, I could be having a terribly rough day and come to the word of God the Psalms are so amazing because they minister to our souls like no other in those deepest, darkest valleys but at the same time it's like I want everything that I'm reading to be like, okay I wanna focus on when was this written who is it written to and reading stuff in context can really help Yeah, absolutely. Right, God's word is his love story to us and Ginger, we just appreciate you sharing your testimony seeing where God has brought you today to live in this freedom, fullness, joy, peace and that lasting relationship with Jesus that is not rule-based but love-based and grace-based so thank you so much for just your heart for your courage to share your journey and we just pray all the many blessings on you thank you so much for being with us. Thank you so much, Anna. Gosh, well we hope that you enjoyed that conversation truly, I feel like we could have spent so much longer listening to her, may it be a blessing to you but we have more to bless you with, stay with us, we'll be right back after this. Tom, what you doing? Oh, I can't find anything good on YouTube to watch the commentaries, the blogs, the tier videos, the gaming videos, it's all boring. Oh, have you thought about subscribing to Cornerstone's YouTube channel? Cornerstone has a YouTube channel? Of course it does. 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Yeah, you can subscribe and you'll be blessed. You know, Anna, just hearing Ginger's story has really ministered to me about the freedom in Christ. And I just want to take a few minutes to talk to you. You know, I started off by saying that he who the sun sets free is free indeed. But I want to share a little bit more about that. And where I wanted to go was, let's talk about the first time that Jesus is announced. It's the angel announcing to the shepherds about Jesus's birth. It's in Luke chapter two. You've heard Linus say it and you've heard a lot of people saying, here it is. I bring you good news of great joy. Stop there for a second. Good news of great joy. Good news of great joy, which shall be to all people for unto you in the city of David has been born for you a savior who is Christ the Lord. So let's talk about that. What is this good news? What is it? Is it that we've got rules that we have to follow? Well, yeah, there are commands, but is that the essence of the good news? Hey, everybody, there's a savior down there and he's going to get you locked into a bunch of rules and a bunch of regulations and you can never do this and you can never do that. Is that what the good news is? No, that's not what the good news is. So let's talk a little bit about what the good news is. First point, God loves you and has a future and a hope for you. Can you just stop right there and say, I know that God loves me. Anna, some people can wrestle with this, whether or not, you know, has you ever struggled with does God love me or did you have a good idea of that always? Yeah, I just, I think that in our desire to please God we can really get caught up in this perfectionism and that and when we fail, when we feel like we fail, then are we pleasing God? Is he still love me? Yeah, and I can remember being there, okay? And Ginger was certainly there because of the religious system she kind of got locked into. Now, look, everybody was trying to do the right thing. They were just going about it the wrong way. And one of the things we can do very easily, as I mentioned before, is we can try to build a checklist of how we can be approved by God, but that's not the good news. That's not what God came and that Jesus died on the cross for you. That's not the good news. What the good news is, is that he died on the cross that you can know God. And guess what? He's awesome. You can know God and he's awesome. That's a fantastic thing to get to know God. That's the most creative being in the universe, duh. He's the most exciting being in the universe. He never comes to an end. He's infinite, he's wise, he has all knowledge, all wisdom, all joy. And you can know that God. And the other point, the other good news is you can be reconciled to your father. Many of us had good fathers, I did. Some of us didn't. Some of us had fathers that were far apart from us. And they didn't really know what to do and some were abusive, but God is not like that. But we're a far, we're a far off. Think of the prodigal son, far off from his father, but reconciled back. The good news, that there's a God who loves you and has great plan for you, that you can know him and you can be reconciled back to him and that you can know this God and he's awesome. So let me ask you a second. Why are most people not experiencing this good news of great joy? Well, it's because there's a problem. And this is before we ever know the Lord. There's a problem and that's sin. And we've all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So we all need to be reconciled. So just take that time today to cry out to God and say, Father, come into my heart. Jesus, come into my life, be my Lord and Savior and I will follow you and do your plan. Not someone else's plan, not someone else's religion, but your plan to follow that I'll follow and you will lead me to the path of joy. That's what we need, Anna. Yeah, the Bible says that perfect love casts out all fear. If you're battling a level of fear today, run close to the Father's heart. His love for you is perfect. It is beyond anything that we can comprehend. Believe me when I say he delights in you. He sings over you. He desires to have intimate relationship with you and build you up again. Whatever this world has put on you, it has been washed away through the blood of Christ. In Jesus is rest, in Jesus is freedom and in Jesus is the life you've always wanted. So run to him today and let him overwhelm you with his love. Thanks for being with us. On tomorrow's Hope Today, explore eight surprising secrets to attaining a stronger intimacy in marriage. Speaker and author Shanti Feldhahn provides insight into what helps couples maintain a strong and healthy relationship. That's tomorrow on Hope Today. Cornerstone Television wishes to thank all our faithful viewers whose consistent prayers and financial support have made this program possible.