 Just burping constantly. We're live. We fixed well. Oh, there we go. Now, YouTube's like, I'll show you the video. It is gracious. Now, I'm going to start you on it. That just means you're awake, you know, for a good show. How are you doing there? Glossack, Pringle nuts. That's the best name ever. Truly is. It truly, truly is. We could get some yays or nays on the audio. That'd be appreciative. We should be. We should be okay. Theoretically, usually when we think that is when shit goes downhill. Sounds about right. I mean, I removed the like foam thing off of my microphone. And now it seems like I don't have to like eat it to talk anymore. Yeah, but you're going to end up with explosives. Yes, crazy. Yes. But so I just won't kiss the mic. Don't say, please bring pizza pronto. Please bring pizza pronto. Yeah, a little bit of pluses. You weren't close enough for it to be too bad. If you angle it off to the side like mine so it doesn't. So the air goes past it. That's the reason why I don't do this anymore. Like you can't see me, but I had it right in front of me. That was really bad. And also you could hear me exhale every single time. So I had to stop breathing. It was bad. All right. That's that's the best. Just just, you know, talk, but just don't breathe. Just stop. Be a very neat trick. Now that I've moved my microphone and ruined it. Positioning the hell. Grab all over my mic. Well, you definitely shouldn't do that. I'm sure the people who were listening are very, very happy that I just scratched the top of the windscreen. So you're probably like crack, crack, crack. It sounded nice. You guys are not listening to headphones or anything. You know, we're just really, really loud. True. Tyler Kissing is my new, new ASMR star. He used to do it, do ASMR every once in a while. That is not true. I did it once because a whole bunch of people asked for it and it was terrible. I can't, I can't, all right. So I say that I can't watch it, but there is actually one type that I can watch and that is someone sitting there in front of a keyboard typing for like an hour. That's fine. Those people who like lick the microphone and stuff. Well, I like I listen to a lot of ASMR, but no, like licking the microphone or like, like lotion, like lotion, like on microphone, like that's just no, like, no, like, but the ones that like I really like are the ones where they take a towel or something like that over a microphone or like just fluffy like a microphone covers and then just like slowly brush them and it kind of sounds like waves like that, that that's the kind of stuff that I really like. That's really nice, but then it just makes you want to go to sleep at my computer, which does not work out. Raphael, are you sure you're not Josh and just guys? I just say an ASMR installing gen two. Actually, there is a lot of, there is a surprising number of people that that's like what they really want. Is it just an, like they, they don't really want ASMR, but they will want ASMR with a gen two install. It's like, I could do a gen two install every single day on my channel and that still would not be enough for some people. No, it wouldn't. Like I could do it seven days in a row and then do another video on something else. I'm like, yeah, this is not a gen two. Well, I genuinely don't understand why it like, okay, statistically on my channel, if I want to make the most successful video possible, it has to be a gen two install. Doesn't matter if it's a video or live stream, it will like out of that category, it will perform the best as long as it's a gen two install. How many gen two installs can you see before you're just like, no, I'm not interested anymore. They're not all that different. Like it's just a lot of compiling. You can make a lot of money if you wrote a script that just installs gen two and just ran that over and over again, like streamed it live or something. Bring the the MX blue keys for an ASMR video. I mean, that's what I got, but even if I was to start typing right now because I switched out my keyboard back to my, I think this is a black widow and it's got the like razor equivalent of blue switches is so clacky. I've missed it. It's the best, but I don't think people want to hear that. Like a lot of a lot of people hate blue keys. Hate them. I've told my mom, I was like, all I'm going to do to like really upset your coworkers is just bring my keyboard into your work building and sit next to them for a little bit and just start typing. Like I'll make someone go homicidal pretty quickly. They're so loud. Yeah. The days without my voice were definitely not great, but I got over it. I'm still coughing up quite a bit. So that's, but that's a something I'll try to turn away from the microwave, the microwave good sport. I mean, one of those days I have word association issues. Hopefully the coffee gets better as we get into talking. Hopefully. Yeah, it'll be all right. I should have brought something down here to actually drink, but that would have been not. Well, you'll just end up being like me and being like right towards the end of the podcast. Me like, give me one second. I got to get up and go and just run him off to the bathroom. Very scratchy towards the end. All right. Let's go ahead and get started here. I think we should. I think we'll be good to go. So you got a on that audacity running up and up and running. I actually do. I do too. We're ready to go where this is going to be a very prepared podcast. You can't see if I'm shaking my head. All right. I'm going to go ahead and hit record in audacity. I'm going to hit record in OBS. You can do the claps whenever you like. All right. Three, two, one. So much so much. But okay, I think I actually took a screenshot of last week's claps. It was it was so bad that first first when it was so bad. And the funny thing is, is that I would have sworn last week that during that first clap that you and I were perfectly in sync and Josh was like half a minute behind. But no, you and Josh were in sync. I was the one that was behind. Look, last week, y'all all seemed in sync. You're saying that this week it's much better. Although on my end, we sounded completely out of sync. It's that really bad latency. That's the reason why you discord. Yeah. I've gotten to the point where I just don't even like I'll line it up and post. It'll be all right. Okay. Do I use audacity flap? I use the flat pack because I have to have a 3.0 version and it turns out you can't get a 3.0 version from any repo. Oh, I mean, you can get from the AUR, but you have to build it and I'm not an arch yet. No, not it. Not not yet. Still still rocking Fedora still very, very happy with it. For now. No, not for now. I'm very happy with it. Um, it's just it's been working really, really good. Um, knock on some wood because I'm sure I jinxed it. Anyways, let's go ahead and get started here. Welcome everyone who's watching this live. We do record this live every week around this time. If you are watching this afterwards, you can find the time stamps below. Those usually show up around 8 o'clock PM Eastern time or so. Normally I put that in the actual show once that we start, but if you've watched up to this point, you've already watched the pre-show so you might will just continue on at this point, but whatever, you know, doesn't do a lot of people very much good. If I say about the time stamps after you've already watched past the nonsense, he probably would have wanted to skip, but it's okay. Um, I don't cut the pre-show out anymore. I used to do that. I used to pull it down and do editing and editing and stuff that it's just easier to do it this way. So anyways, that's some somebody asked me like, why don't you edit the podcast? Like I do the editing is done on the audio, the audio version. The video version just stays up as a live stream. It just it works out that well that way. Anyways, okay. Getting started. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Linuxcast. I'm your host, Matt. And I'm Tyler. Yes, he is. This is the Linuxcast. We've talked about Linuxy things usually anyways. One of those things that we've just never done before is tangent. So I'm sure today will be just as good as we always are when it comes to tangents. So that means we probably won't get to the main topic today. I'm just guessing. Who knows? We will. We will. We'll get there. It's gonna be all right. So anyway, as you talk about the next stuff, we're going to be doing that. So but like every week we start off with a little bit of catching up sessions. So Tyler, what have you been doing this week in FOSS? Um, well, obviously playing the hell out of my steam deck back there, but I've been working on a third person survival game for, well, the deck, but really Linux in general. And that's why I haven't been posting anything on YouTube. Like I genuinely haven't had time. I've I've like I do have a job that I've got to do. And so I've been doing that and just working on the game with all of my spare time that are just time in general that I'm at home and can work on it. So next week after the podcast on my channel, there will be a video that goes up. And so like it'll just be me casually like talking about the project and showing it showing it off in Unity and just kind of talking just in general about the project. It's not going to be open-sourced because I'm using I'm using assets that I own through licenses and stuff. So like it's not like I can just give those out. But for whatever it's worth any of the code that I've written, like all of my scripts that are mine to give away or to host, those will be up on GitLab should anyone find it interesting or want it. But yeah, so next week, I'll finally start posting again to my channel and have something kind of worthwhile to show off. So that's what I've been working on. You're still enjoying the Steam Deck just as much as you have been? Yeah, it's it's genuinely awesome. Like I can't get over how fun it is to like sit back in bed with a like not a laptop, like something that's actually like it's the way it's designed. It's perfect to sit back and like kick back in bed and have up in front of you and just play games. Like it's so nice. Like I've been watching. Can't remember. I've just finished like the Sandman series on Netflix. It's pretty good, but I've been watching that and like yesterday I watched like Schindler's List and a whole bunch of other like good like older movies, but the entire time like during commercial breaks or anytime the story gets slow or anything like that, like I just start playing games on my Steam Deck in between. It's it's so nice. It's great. I love it. So yeah, like if you want to get a Steam Deck get it and if you don't want to get a Steam Deck, there's probably something wrong with you. You need to at least go get a check up with your doctor. Just just say it. I didn't get mine and I'm actually kind of okay with it to be honest with you. You know me. I'm just not I don't think that getting a Steam Deck would have changed my gaming habits at all, although that being said, I've done a lot of gaming this week. So who knows maybe some I probably will wait until you can actually just buy one. I hate being on a waiting list. I guess let me buy one. Yeah. My only thing is is I wonder how long it's going to be till that happens because like I would assume that like it won't be too much longer. But then also like it's kind of weird. Like there's a lot of people that aren't ordering them, but there's also seems to be a lot more people like reserving and being interested in getting one. So like, I don't know. It's kind of a 50 50 as to whether or not like you'll have to reserve it for much longer. I mean, it wouldn't be so bad. Like I know maybe I'm weird like this, but I just I hate I hated this when the whole there was this whole like remember when there was like actual like game stores, you'd go to a game store and you could like pre-order a game that give them $5. I hated that because I always just locked the $5 because I always forgot that I pre-ordered it, right? So like I can't I can't tell you the amount of money I wasted on games that I pre-ordered for stupid reasons, you know, and then had to, you know, just forgot about it and lost the money. So that was I mean, obviously that's mostly my fault. But I just consider it stupid with a steam deck. I gave him $5, but the thing is that it costs so much money, almost all of my cash sits in my savings account, which is at a different bank. That's where all my paychecks and stuff go, which is there. So I had to transfer it over into where, you know, my debit card comes from and that that for whatever reason in this day and age, it takes a week to transfer that money. Like, yeah, they only give you three days to order. Yeah, I know they only give you three days to do it. So by the time the money got there, it was too late. And by that I mean, if I could, like I said, if I could just pay for it, you know, I mean, if I probably pre-order enough, I could just say, here's the money, you know, and then ship it to me when it's ready, you know, I'd be happy with that. But they don't let you do that. You get you give them $5 and then wait for it and then pay for it by that time. The money will be back where it's supposed to be. Anyways, it doesn't matter. Like I said, I don't think that I would that having one would change my gaming habits at all. Anyways, but we'll I'll get one eventually. Anyway, so for me, I've been doing gaming this week. So I've finally got steam working on Fedora. I've had a few problems with it. So I tried the version from the Fedora repos and no games would like run consistently on it. They just crashed like crazy. And that was after installing Proton and Proton and GE and stuff. It just would not work. I'm not sure what was going on. I'm 100% sure that it was a dependency because I kept getting dense notifications saying, hey, this library is missing, but I searched for the library couldn't find it anywhere. So I uninstalled the Fedora repo version and installed the flat pack version. That was not a good experience either because apparently I hadn't opened up steam in a while and you know when you haven't opened up steam for a while you sometimes get like multitude of windows that pop up advertising stuff and giving you notifications of friends and stuff that happened. That happened for me only. They were like blank windows. Like, you know, I use I3 so I could see like the border around like an invisible window. And if I hover over that and quit it, it could steam completely. I just thought it was just steam. So I ended up having to log out of I3, go to Plasma, go through the notifications one by one. Dismiss those so that those windows would go away. And then I was able to get it all open running on I3. But that experience wasn't all that great. But once I did get the flat pack running using the flat pack version of Proton G is actually kind of cool. You just install the flat pack and it run. I mean, Cities Skylines has been running fantastically. Better, probably better than I've ever seen it run on Linux. Honestly, I'm like in like 120 frames per second sometimes, which is just nuts in a city that's actually been built. It obviously goes down once you press play because the parts start moving. But then there's the I've been playing my thinking of the week, which I'll say for later. But that's a win. That's a Windows only game. And it's been running awesome like so, so good. I'm not any good at it because I'm playing with a trackball. But it's been very, very fun. So I've been playing that and a couple of the games they've been just running really nice. So I've been very after that initial not so good experience. Even Fedora is even good at gaming. So I switched to Fedora. It's good. I'm a Fedora fanboy now. Who would have thought that? Yeah. And I mean, now it won't be too much longer till you're out here, you know, just trying to get people to use. You know, just just desperately try it'll happen. It'll happen just one day. Just just just put me out of my misery. All right, like just we all have to agree that like everyone, especially in chat now, if you stick around long enough and Matt starts recommending Genome, if he does it just once, I would like to see the entire comment section just filled with simp just filled with like as soon as it starts happening because one day it will happen. One day he'll be like, you know what? Genome's not too bad. I think you guys should use it. I talked about this before we started recording. There was I've installed Fedora now on every computer I own. So I have three laptops, I have that computer behind me and I have the main desktop and Fedora's on all of them. And it's like I said, it's been it's been amazing. The thing is that all the other ones have Genome as the default on them right now. Who they all suck. I'm telling you right now. Genome is God awful. You have to do so much to that thing to order to get to work properly, which is fine. I mean, I always say that like I expect everything to be perfect out of the box, right? Like if you install I3 or DWM or BSPWM like that, you know, those things are pretty much unusable out of the box. You always have to tweak them. You have to come up bar. You have to tweak the bar. You have to add patches to DWM. You have to add in your key buying. So there's always tweaking that you have to do to a window manager. But when it comes to the Genome, if I have to tweak it, I'm so pissed off and calling it terrible. I know that double standard is drives me nuts, but I can't help it. I think because the defaults in Genome are just so bad. Like they're just, I don't know. It just maybe you don't like them. I don't like them. Yes. It's all that stuff is personal opinion. I know a lot of people who enjoy the default workflow of Genome, they like swear by it. I can't stand it. So no, I don't think you made that very clear. But no, no, no, that will all change. There's no but I'm not going to become a, you know, fanboy. It's just not going to happen. Okay. And in fact, my love of KDE, like I've always been a KDE guy, right? If I have to use this desktop environment, it's KDE. My love of KDE is fallen by the wayside. Like I still think it had the potential to be fantastic, but it has become so buggy. Like it's gotten worse. Like it used to be, I mean, it's always had bugs and stuff, right? And that was just kind of the name of the game. If you wanted to use KDE, you were going to have to put up with their weird obsession with making sure that it has every feature under the sun, right? Problem is, is that they've gone too far. Now they're adding features like crazy again. And yeah, they say they're fixing, fixing all these bugs, but there's just so many and it's just buggy as hell. Like icons not showing up, even though you've set an icon, themes not showing up. Covantum doesn't work anymore. It's just kind of, it's just, I mean, you want KDE to be so good, but it's just, they seriously just, for the next five years, no new features, none. Okay. I'd love them to see that. Like we're not saying we're going to pause development for the next five years, maybe too long. For the next two years, no development. Okay. All we're going to do is fix bugs. It doesn't need any new features. Sad part is I agree with you, but I see it like I see no possibility of that happening. None. Like cause all the KDE developers, that's what they like doing is implementing new features. Like clearly, I don't think anyone could debate that. They're like the kid who has no problem getting a whole bunch of new toys, but never wants to clean their room. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly it. And like what you're suggesting is not just clean the room, but stop and do a dedicated deep clean on the room for at least a day. Like, you know, for a kid and it's KDE developers can't come on. Why they just won't that kid has toys upon toys that they've never played with. They were fantastic. They wanted that toy so bad, you know, they they begged for it and they worked for months for like maybe their parents or those parents that make them work for their toys, but they so they worked for months for the toy got the toy played with them for five minutes and then shoved it in the corner and never played with it again. That's KDE. They have features that have been developed and then never touched again because they have just they just have too many. And the funny thing is is that we were just bitching at GNOME for not having enough features, right? The thing is, like there has to be a middle ground somewhere. Also, just a guy Linux. Thanks for the super check contributing to the five dollar fund. He lost because of your forgetfulness. Yes. Thank you. I shouldn't say this, but I will because I know Matt would also be completely honest about it too. They do give you your five dollars back. Oh, no, no, no. See, the thing is in order to get the five dollars back, you have to remember that you gave them the five dollars. That's the thing is I forgot that I forgot to pre-order half the time. Really? And they just never got it or ended up going to a different store and buying it. Dude, I've had Alzheimer's since I was like five. Well, no. I can't remember. I can I have a really, really bad memory on some things like put me in front of Jeopardy. I can remember the weirdest freaking trivia. Ask me what I had for lunch last week. No clue. I can tell you. Let me make this clear that really was not because I didn't possibly believe that you could forget something. It was because steam. I like I didn't realize that steam wouldn't give you back your money if you didn't order it. Like I thought that's just how it worked. And if you didn't order it, I'm talking about actual brick and mortar stores. Oh, like all the money you've lost from there. It's like if you preorder a game from from steam, you are silly. Oh, yeah. Well, no, no, no, if you if you preorder anything digital, like there's something wrong with you, like like what's going to happen? Like you can't get the download because you didn't preorder it. Well, the whole point of preordering when there was brick and mortar stores was because it would allow you to reserve your place in line. That was when you would actually go and stand in line for something that you really wanted to, you know, have, right? Whether you know, I did it for books all the time. Like I like all the time. That makes sense to you and video games. I did it a few times, but I'm when it comes to gaming, I basically haven't changed in 30 years and not much of a gamer. I told the story in the podcast before I have a copy of Batman Arkham Asylum up there on my shelf still in solo fame never used it. I did that a lot, right? And the thing is, I'm not that big of a gamer. So a lot of times like it would be a game that I think one of the games that I forgot about and never got my $5 back was Mafia 2. Okay. Yeah. I did end up finding playing it eventually, but I think I ended up buying it like the discount bin because that game just completely flopped. It was not a good game. But I mean, it had a good story. It was just like it was a movie. It was not a game. But the point I was about to say, like in my opinion, it's a good game, but it's also like as a game like successful. No, no. Well, and the biggest problem with those types of games is that when the developers get too engrossed in the story, they forget about the gameplay, right? So there's just there was just too many cussings. But the point, the point is that is that I was big into that franchise. So I wanted to play it. So I gave $5 to EB games or something and was going to go and pick it up. Forgot about it. Eventually never got the $5 back. I did that multiple times with several different games, but the first doing the preorder back then made sense like you losing that money sucks, but you doing it, you had a purpose to it. Like, like, I don't know if everybody knows this, but there's like a thing called inventory with physical goods and like the store that you're going to buy from when the game comes out, like if you preordered like your money was just to make sure that the store would order you a copy and guarantee it was there when it launched. So you could get it day one. Like now if you preorder a game, what are you doing? Like why? No scarcity now like you're going to get there. You could order. I mean, the only way would make sense. Like if a game came out that was so popular that they knew everybody was going to download it. So your $5 gave it so that you were like the first in line to in the download queue because like they had to stagger him or something or or maybe you got early access to a beta or something like that. Yeah, you kind of have to get something for yeah, like nowadays that's that's what would make sense to me. Like if you got access to a beta or something like then you should preorder something. But nowadays like there's very few of those games where you preorder them and that's what you get in return. Like I if you're there's so many games that you can preorder how is there not major incentives for people preordering and people like people are still preordering and you're not getting a good benefit for it. Like most games now have gone up to like 80 to like $120 in value. There is almost nothing that you that I would give you that much money for in advance and wait like a month or so for especially when the new bad seems to be releasing games that are buggy as shit. Yeah, can you imagine being the person and there were many of them who preordered Red Dead Red Dead Redemption cyberpunk 2077 or what it was. Yeah, I was about to say like I was about to correct you. I was like you mean to cyber. Yeah, yeah. The the the when you when cyberpunk first came out it was the buggy is game ever launched and there were people preordered that thing, right? Yeah. And you had like don't don't preorder. Um, you gotta remember this coming from a gaming person. So I would say don't play the game in the first year. Just wait a year then play it. The bugs will be ironed out. It'll have much fun, much more fun. The problem is, of course, then you missed on all excitement of playing with your friends who are all going to play the game day one or or you will also run the chance because the Internet's a thing nowadays and people on the Internet can be turds. Sometimes somebody will. Yeah, exactly. They'll just spoil the whole like ending for you. Okay. So my favorite game of all time, like all time in this game I've played probably four times all the way through and it's the only game I've ever like, okay, so it's not the only game I've ever beaten, but it's the only like full fledged console level game that I've ever beaten and I've played it multiple times through is Heavy Rain. Oh, yeah. That game was fantastic. And it wasn't that it was necessarily like the gameplay was all that good because it wasn't like it was really bad gameplay. Like you could sit there. Yeah. It was one of those games where you kind of had to get the combos right in order to like move the characters in a certain way. The best part about that game was it was a fantastic story and it changed depending on what choices you made, right? That game is one that to this day I'll still talk about like. Constantly and and it's one that stuck with me, but the point is that even that game there, I wouldn't have preordered it because I liked it by accident. You know, it was one of those games where I just kind of bought it. No clue. It was going to be any good. Like even though I got stellar reviews. All right. Anyways, we've we've meandered. Yes, we have meandered. So let's go ahead and move into the contact information. If you want to get in contact with us, you can do so in any number of ways. The best way to do so is probably via email. You can do you can email us at email at the linuxcast.org. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Mastodon, all those things. Those links will be in the video description also at the linuxcast.org slash contact where you can find all the links to my stuff. Tyler stuff. Speaking of Tyler, he goes by Zany online. He has a YouTube channel. You should definitely go subscribe youtube.com slash Zanyo G. He does post YouTube videos. It just doesn't look like it anymore. Because because he's he's busy doing other things. So yes, what you're going to do? So the you subscribe to him on on YouTube. You can subscribe to the links cast on youtube youtube.com slash the links cast. Also check out the links cast or which is the website. It has access to all of my blog posts. All the previous episodes of the podcast are there like literally all of them all the way back to season one episode four. The first episode first three episodes gone into the ether. Don't know where those are. But anyways, all of the episodes are there. You can definitely check those out and also a link to our patrons so you can support us on page on a page on dot com slash the next cast. If he thanks to all the patrons will thank you at the end as well. So yeah, that's the contact information. Definitely getting contact with us. If you are interested in the show leave a comment in the comment on the video. If you'd like to do that you can stop my rambling any minute now I can just stop rambling. Okay, moving on to the news every week Tyler and I we scour the internet for the most latest breaking heart-hitting Linux news anywhere in the world. You can never find more breaking new news than this. I promise I said guarantee it but then I probably get sued or something. I don't know. Anyways, the news. So Tyler your news of the week. Well Manjaro arm has come out with a new well again not like breakneck release but there's a new version. It has a lot more support for some different SOC's or yeah, right? Sock and chip. Yeah, that's it. SOC's are going to take me a second and a complete brain fart. But yeah, so they've got a new version. They add support for some more devices and stuff and I just think it's good because Manjaro arm is like pretty like to me is pretty much the if you're going to be using Manjaro and like really like really want to use Manjaro. I think the arm version of Manjaro is the one that makes sense like like compared to its desktop version. The Manjaro arm is it offers a lot especially especially Manjaro arm compared to the other arm Linux distros that are available. It's it's not only polished but it's also it's extremely functional and pretty freaking stable. This might piss some people off but like let's be real. That's completely polar opposite to its desktop version. I was gonna say doesn't it feel like it wouldn't surprise anyone if for three or four years from now Manjaro doesn't have a regular desktop version. All they do is arm it feels it feels like they're moving in the Ubuntu mobile or the Ubi Ubi ports guys right? Well, I mean there is the mobile stuff or stuff. Manjaro is is a very weird like distro and specific just because it's not only doesn't have a mobile version of itself. It's one of the very few distributions where at most distributions that have a mobile version like Ubuntu or whatever like they're progressing forward on both platforms whereas Manjaro seems to have taken all of its development like talent from the desktop side moved it over to the mobile side because their arm version is not only really good it's constantly improving and getting better while their desktop version is only getting worse. I mean in every regard if you want to fight me on that that's totally fine. That's cool. But I can say for the majority of people Manjaro has gone downhill over the past couple of years like for sure. It feels like a yeah. Hold on a second. I'm going to cough up a prop. Jesus hopefully you're okay. Don't come down with colds. Okay. There that's my advice is just never come down with a cold. Did you ever watch how I met your mother? Yeah. Barney has a line that's Neil Patrick Harris's character for anybody who hasn't watched it. He says I don't ever get sick. I just stop being sick and be awesome instead. Do that. Okay. Don't ever get sick because it's just bad. Anyways yeah Manjaro does seem like it has gone downhill. Maybe I think part of it is because neither like you and I switched to it that time we were going to do a challenge or something and you didn't first of all you didn't last more than 15 minutes. I'm pretty sure I did. I lasted a week but the the thing is is that when it comes to Manjaro when it comes to arch and arch space distros the thing that makes arch good like fantastic is there you are like yes being able to build up your system from scratch on on a vinyl arches very good and it's definitely a perk of it but when it comes to arch based distros that goes pretty much goes away right that's that part goes away and for the most part the distro maintainer builds it up for you. So the perks then of those types of distros is there you are and it's not that they that Manjaro can't use there you are it can but because of the way they hold back the main repos by two weeks it breaks a lot of the stuff that the you are can rely on so when you download something from the you are a lot of times that package is going to either not building or breaking or not having the proper libraries and stuff available to it and because that's that's the way that is it's expecting to be able to pull from the arch repos which just don't exist on Manjaro. No, it's very weird. It's like Manjaro has decided to like to to be arch but not benefit from everything that makes arch arch. Yeah, which is very weird. Right. Well, they have they have a like an unstable version now. That didn't exist when we did that challenge like they have a so like arch. Yeah. Like I'm not at that point. What are I mean? I'm so confused. Right. I mean, you get the theming and stuff and you'd get all their desktop and stuff. So I mean, it gets I mean, it's just basically then a regular arch based distro, but I don't think it's because it's still not pulling from the arch repose. It's pulling from a Manjaro repose that are considered unstable. I think that that's the way it works. I've never used it. So I don't I might have to check like I might have to check this. This sounds interesting. Like I just want to see what's going on. I think that's very interesting. I've never used I've heard I've a couple of people have asked me to take a look at it like I I'm very not into it because I'm not much of a Manjaro fan, but I don't know. It seems a little weird, but yeah, and that's Manjaro for you. Okay. So moving on to my news of the week, if we can if we can find the right workspace here, which we can. So my yeah, yeah, I know my my my news of the week. So Ubuntu is now officially supported on star fives vision five risk five five. So first of all, let's just for a minute way too many fives in that sentence. Okay, star fives vision fives risk five single board computers. Got this right here is a prime example of why developers and engineers should never name anything like ever open source developers or engineers should hire somebody just seriously. I mean, I just I have a feeling like everybody is that really like this. Everyone who's not a marketing person is exactly like this. They don't know how to name anything and that's the reason why marketing firms can charge whatever they want to name things. Yeah, and because open source guys can't afford a marketing firm. They end up coming out with something like star fives vision size risk five single board computers. Good Lord people you need. It's like at the beginning of like the I think it's like the first Iron Man movie where we don't know that shield is the acronym yet. So it's just the strategic homeland intervention, whatever hell it is. Right. We're like we're working on it. You know, these guys need to need an acronym or something. Anyways, the point of the article is that the Ubuntu now works on this single board computer. And the reason why it's important isn't necessarily because Ubuntu now works on it, but because it shows how far these risk five chips that aren't based on ARM have come and it's I mean, it's only been like two maybe three years ago where they were really I mean, they were really minimal in terms of their functionality. You could get them and they are like Arduinos and things like that, you know, they would they had single uses and you were never going to run like the door Ubuntu on them. Now we've got to the point where these are powerful enough to run actual Linux distros and not just for like Internet of Things stuff but actual, you know, serviceable distros that you can do pretty much whatever you want to run. You can run a Docker container probably whatever, you know. Again, assuming it's a minimal Docker container. It's going to obviously it's going to be something it's still very low end and you're going to have to kind of take your performance hits where you'd expect them because it was still very a very, very low power chips. I think it said that this did have the wattage here. I don't think I don't think it's said. Well, I know it's a dual core processor. I think it's maybe clocked in at like one point something like maybe like one point two or something. I know it's I know it's not like a couple gigahertz or something like that. But it they're they're moderate like moderately powerful cores for what they are. And also it's not like these are trying to be marketed as like a desktop. Yeah, obviously, if that's what you're expecting, I mean, they're they're not close to Raspberry Pi yet. Even right. So I mean, you can't even really expect to run a Raspberry Pi as a daily driver computer, although it's getting close. This isn't anywhere near that yet. And it's not really the point of it either. It's not supposed to be competing with that kind of thing. It's supposed to be single purpose stuff like that. But the well, and I also think it's not it's not even supposed like you're not really supposed to want it to compete. The main thing is just be excited that open source hardware is not too far behind close source hardware for the first time ever. I mean, it's just like it's and it's moving fast, right? It's like a couple of years ago, this would not have been even close to being in the realm of possibility. Now it is. And it's really kind of exciting. Now, I mean, it's not I mean, we're still many moons away from this and competing with even arm when it comes to, you know, actual performance, but that it's moving this fast being completely open source and it's being supported by companies. Like it has. It's well funded. So it's not going anywhere. Like it's I think I saw the like Microsoft and Apple and several at Google. They're throwing money into this platform. So maybe they could spend like a million dollars on a marketing team and come up with a better name. I mean, maybe star fives vision fives risk five single board computers. Guys, just call it. You got the triple five threat, man. Called the five. Okay. Or something. I don't know. Like any like literally anything would be better than that. Okay. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Um, just engineers, developers don't name anything. Just, you know, you know, all right. So here's the thing. You've bought Sony stuff before. If you noticed how everything Sony has like really long like numbers in there in the name. So like, uh, you know, it's the Sony, whatever the hell the name and then has like nine numbers after it, you can tell that the engineers are in charge of naming shit. Right. Yeah. That's this right here. Right. You can just tell. Um, so anyways, that's the news and it's good news. And you notice we kind of had a theme. So you talked about arm. I talked about risk five. So the main topic this week actually is arm. So we've done an arm episode in the past where we talked about arm more in general. Like is arm the future of Linux? And we talked about that for a good hour or so. And I don't really remember what we concluded in that episode because it's been over a year ago. But the point of today's video is let is more specific. Our arms max are this is really going to be hard to say if it's way too many m's our arm max good for Linux and more do we think that the Apple version of arm is going to propel the development of other arm based things on Linux and as a third question, do we think that eventually our max will be actually really good for Linux like where you can just install whatever distro you want. Like as of right now, we really only have one distro that will work on it. The assai guys or how the hell you say it. So the question is why are we going to be able to install Ubuntu on it eventually or Fedora? You know, that's the those are the questions I kind of want to focus on. So Tyler, what do you think about the arm and one max going through in terms of Linux and stuff? I think it's a good thing that you're able to do it. But I don't think it's going to be something that's ever like really popular like because there's there's not many people that like are into open source and into Linux and want to use Linux as their OS that purchase max. Like it's just not that common. Like I'm not sure that I agree with you because I know I know several people who have well, but see, like the thing is is like those people like just based off of the ones that you're thinking of, how many of them bought their max before they got interested in open source? None of them. Really? Yeah, no, no, I'm thinking I'm thinking of at least four guys who all bought it with the intention of meddling around with Linux on it like they were going to stick around with Mac the Mac OS, but they bought it with the intention of fiddling around with Linux on it, whether it would be through the Asahi Asahi, I'm never going to learn how to pronounce the name, the Linux that's been ported to it now or through the virtualization stuff that they've been talking about through the new virtualization thing that came out last when the M1 was announced. So yeah, the the four guys that have all bought it like I know one guy who just swears by that hardware. He's like always has. He's always been an Apple like hardware guy, but he's never cared for Mac OS. So he's always bought the hardware and almost immediately installed Linux on it. That's just it makes it makes no sense to me. Like why would you buy a piece of hardware that is designed like literally engineered to keep you from doing what you would like to do on it? Like, okay, I don't maybe I mean you're pretty much you're pretty hardware agnostic. You'll just buy the stuff that makes sense to you, right? Yeah. A lot of people are very fascinated with that hardware because I'm first of all, it doesn't have any competition in the Linux space. In terms of that in that hardware, you can't buy that good of hardware in Linux space. You just can't like I know I'm going to piss a lot of people off. Like they like system 76 and like Tuxedo and they're massively expensive. They're overpriced. It the argument that that like their competitive is just wrong. Like they're they're not well price wise. They're just not like you can go and get something else for cheaper. So I mean that's true. But the I mean the point is that if you're going to buy a Linux focused laptop, you have these choices like you have systems 76 and all those things. None of them have hardware at least when it comes to laptop hardware that can compete with Apple's hardware. They just can't in terms of design in terms of build quality, things like that. I mean, whether you like Apple or not, you have to admit their hardware is really good. Like I'm sitting here with a with a iPhone that I really desperately want to use. But iOS is God awful. Hardware is fantastic. I was like really, really good. Like I really wish I could put Android on that thing. I'd be way happier. I'd use that as my daily driver, but you just can't do it, right? The so I think part of the reason why a lot of Linux guys are interested in being able to use a Mac as their daily driver, but with Linux on it is well, it's twofold really. It's because the hardware is so good, but also because the M one is so attractive in terms of battery life and powerful, you know, power and stuff, right? No. So I mean, there is definitely. A market for Mac's target towards Linux people. I think I mean, you probably, right? I don't know about targeted towards it. Like that's that's the thing that makes it confusing to me is like, I get that you can do it. Like I get that, but like fundamentally like the hardware, like, yes, like hardware in one into like whatever Apple Silicon is really good, like superbly good, but like what you want, like the hardware being that good and having a really good value, at least in my opinion, wouldn't make up for the fact that the company that makes it, that actually makes the hardware designs it in a way that fights and tries to keep you from doing what you want to do on it and also like if you're a if you're like really into Linux, like really into open source and stuff, like there's not another company that's more against your beliefs than Apple or Microsoft. Like they they especially like Apple hates open source. Like I don't know if they okay. I would I mean, it doesn't it doesn't make them money. So they hate it. I mean, they base their all their operating systems on open source software and they contribute upstream like they're supposed to. So I can't say they hate open source software and like it's based on BSD. So wait, so so benefiting off of open source. I'm not saying that they're the best citizens ever, but they're not like they're not I don't think they're as evil when it comes to that. They're not they don't want to murder open source. You're right. They wouldn't just take it out back and shoot it. But would they ever make something open source? They ever oh really? Yeah, the Swift. I think it's called Swift language, which is all which all app on iOS apps are written in. That's open source. The WebKit WebKit engine was developed by Apple. That's open source. The Cups printer thing that all Linux things use. Yeah, but these are all open source projects that only benefit Apple like only. Like you don't use them anywhere else. You know, you're totally wrong. Okay. WebKit is the basis of Blink which Chrome uses. Okay. Yes, yes, every browser ever. A Cups printers with the Cups printer. You're right. You're right. I'm wrong. I'm wrong. Okay. They don't pay this still. I'm not saying that they're going to go on open source everything they make. They're obviously not. They're very much into making money and they know that open source main projects are never going to make the kind of money that they would need in order to stay in business. We know that that you're right in that aspect. The thing is that I don't. I don't see it. I mean, I don't think that they closed their hardware down because they hate open source. I think the causality there is wrong. They closed their hardware down because they're into control and they want you to use their stuff. That's necessarily because they don't want, they don't want you to buy a Mac and install Windows on it. They don't care about Linux. They don't want you to install Windows on it. That's that's the thing. And you were right. They're not target. They're not building these things into target Linux but or, you know, Linux guys, but that doesn't make them any less attractive to some Linux people. Right. So, well, yeah, but do I think there's a big enough market of Linux people that want Apple's hardware? Probably not. Okay. Like I see. Here's the thing. Honestly, tell me if another company like Dell came out with essentially Apple's silicon like essentially the same thing, but it like it worked with Linux just you could install Linux like there's no like fundamental problem or like the obviously like company behind making it is against you doing this and you can install Linux on it. The people who are purchasing Mac like M1 chips or like Mac's hardware right now to put Linux on it. Do you honestly think they wouldn't pick that over it? Like personally, I think that a lot more people would just go with that route just just because it's this like really what I think what people are after when it comes to Apple silicon in particular isn't not like really performance really. It's mainly battery life because that's that's like the main thing is that you get kind of the same maybe a slight performance hit maybe but for the most part you get the same performance but just massively more battery life. I think that the vast majority people aren't as fervent open source supporters as we would like them to be. I think that most people just want to buy the best thing that they can that they can afford to does the job that they want to do and even if they prefer Linux most people probably aren't opposed to being able to use a computer that they really like even if it is as close source and horrible towards open source as you know we can make it out to be right. That's the reason why there's I mean at one point the guy who is doing the Linux for the M1 and M2's had a patreon support of over $10,000 a month. So there is definitely people out there who will support that kind of development for this hardware is ever going to be a multimillion dollar endeavor for Linux distributions to support. No, but I think that it is probably bigger than you expect. So zero next says I agree with Tyler. Why buy Ferrari to put a Honda engine on it or vice versa. Don't make sense to me either. Thank you for the super chat even if you are agreeing with Tyler. I mean that's kind of the thing like I think most people who would want like Apple's hardware for Linux in general would be like would more want something that's not from Apple like that's not from that like that closed sourced environment. I don't think most people care. Well, even if most people don't because most people buying like Apple products don't install Linux on like 98 percent of them. Even the people who are interested in Linux. I think most people who okay. I'm one of these people. I I call myself an open source advocate but I'll still happily use a private proprietary piece of software if it's the only option I have or it's just spectacular even if there are other options. So forgive but that that's my whole point. You have no other option right now if you want something like the the arm silicon that Apple has. You have no other option. My point is is only that given another option. Most people purchasing Apple products with interest in Linux would most likely go with someone else like so I don't really see like the Apple specific like silicon being good for Linux in general other than like benefiting in the fact that Linux is on the Apple silicon like that's good but like being a good thing for Linux in general probably not. I think the probably the best thing would be having another company making the same type of silicon like that Apple's making. Okay. I'm going to disagree with you again. We're very contentious today at Tyler. Normally we are normally we agree on more than this but the reason why I think that this whole thing is good for Linux is because it's because it is being developed so there is Linux being developed for this hardware and the stuff that is being developed for this hardware will eventually be able to be translated into the kernel and then support other people who are going to other hardware vendors that are going to make arm hardware. So all the work that the guys are doing will eventually at least partially translate into work that other people don't have to do in order to get Linux to work better on arm. When there is that magical other hardware vendor that you're talking about that doesn't exist right now that's going to create a hardware that's as good as apples and has fantastic battery life. When that eventually exists the work to get Linux working on it is going to be at least half done. And I mean I'm sure they'll have to make some tweaks because it's obviously not going to be the same type of hardware that Apple has but they will have at least some of the work done ahead of them so they don't have to start completely from scratch and that's the reason why it's good for Linux. It hurts because like I somewhat agree with you but not by much because like I have a feeling that there is some work that the OSCE or however you say their name development team has done that will translate over into other arm devices but if we're being honest there's a lot of Linux distros that already have wide arm support and I have a feeling that like most of the dev work that OSCE Linux and other Apple Linux like specific distros will do maybe maybe 5% of it probably less will port over and be valuable in other arm devices that come later from other manufacturers. An overwhelming majority of it again this is not coming from somebody who knows anything about it but just just guessing I highly doubt that a large portion of what they work on is not going to be Apple specific. I mean there is a lot of custom stuff going on with Apple Silicon and I have a feeling that's pretty much where almost all of the problems with getting Linux running on it lies isn't specific. That was really good. Good good good that's going to that's going to make it very fun to edit you can't win with audio thing man. You know I can't know I can't. Anyways the I don't I guess we're just going to find a figure wait and see I guess the I think at the end of the day. Any work that's being put in on Linux is a good thing right and even if it is fine let's just say you're writing it's only 5% that's still 5% that somebody else doesn't have to do and I I can't see some of that stuff not being able to be translated to other arm because it's still arm at the end of the day it is still arm so while I mean I don't think that Silicon is going to be way different than any other arm based structure but the point will be is once they've done that type of work trying to get Linux working on arm they've at least documented on how they've done it so that even even if what they've done doesn't translate directly to a new chip they can still use the process to do what needs to be done to get it working on other chips and you know maybe maybe that's not as big of a deal as I think it is but and you're right Linux does work on arm in many different cases right now they have almost every major Linux distro has arm based support but it doesn't mean it's perfect and it doesn't mean that it can't get better and I think that that the work on Apple arm based products could potentially lead to some of that stuff being better supported and we haven't even talked about this yet because Apple has created these pieces of hardware it's possible now that we might see like System76 or SlumBook whatever make a piece of Linux hardware that is running arm because right now the only arm hardware that Linux a Linux manufacturer works is is pine 64 and let's be honest but it's going to be terrible right and because it's just I mean I mean all all Linux first of attempts are terrible and that's just kind of the the way it is like because they don't have the R&D to put into something that's going to be completely polished the first time they put it out so I'm not saying like pine 64 is like really awful but maybe now that they have this competition or whatever I mean it's not really competition but the you know they have a template that it can work like prior to this every time Microsoft decided to do an arm based device it was got awful and I mean it's still got awful because Windows runs horribly on arm but now that Apple's done it and done it well maybe that will give these bigger companies an idea that maybe Linux would work well on arm too and they'll create a device. Most companies don't have Apple's R&D budget almost no company does. You've already told me that Linux runs on arm okay so they can get on arm. Hold on hold on no no no because no no Microsoft the reason that their attempts on making arm products suck is because they never tried making their own arm chips that is extremely expensive and Microsoft has never buckled down and decided to spend that much money on R&Ding their own chips. Apple is pretty much the only company that has ever went from a software manufacturer or hardware like overall systems manufacturer to a specific chip manufacturer or at least designer. That's a major shift. If you're thinking that systems have any six or any other Linux company can do it. There are off-the-shelf products based on arm that they can buy okay just like you can buy an Intel or an AMD card. I don't know if they're any good. But I'll go ahead and stop you. That's why pine products and everything are not competitive because the arm chips that you can buy off of the shelf will not compete like you just have to literally it does not have to compete it just has to be good okay that first that first attempt has to be okay. There's but there's but what are you talking about when you say good like because when you say good we're talking about chips here so that means the chip has to be good there aren't any like there are no like no company right now is making arm chips for SOCs that can like run like desktop OS is like typical arm distros there's just none of them like there's not because pretty much every big chip manufacturer that makes the really powerful like arm chips okay maybe you're right but then your entire argument about five minutes ago was completely pointless because you mean because your point was that given the choice between Apple and another manufacturer people would choose another manufacturer but if that's the case then there has to be another manufacturer and you just told me just a second ago that there's not other manufacturer all arm chips are terrible and nobody's right no there's there's not a manufacturer right now make making chips like Microsoft or Dell could do it like they could major companies could they're not manufacturers a trip to team TMSE again the whole like your whole point here is that there's not one and that was my whole point is they're not one Apple was not one a while ago they became one that's my whole point like if Microsoft Dell or a company that had the financials to do it did it they could but it's also extremely risky like it's a investing millions if not billions of dollars to create chips that are now have a competitor I think that the argument we're having here is that you think that in order to use an arm chip you have to develop it yourself which maybe that's the way it has been up until now but there are companies out there TSMC Texas instruments that design arm chips and sell them to people they're right now they're only in servers and video does it there are several other smaller companies all calm obviously does it but you're talking about chip manufacturers that make stuff like Snapdragon processors like the ones in here okay so you you have a good point that they make really good arm chips that go in these phones this is something that you can look up because there is an explanation of why but there's a good reason for why that these suit like this is a really powerful chip compared to something that's in like a pine book or whatever like this thing is like just destroys it there's a reason that the manufacturers like pine phone and other manufacturers or distributor whatever you want to call them can't get their hands on these chips because the companies that do make these chips they out they're already sold before they ever even make the chips they're all sold so okay the thing is though is like that I mean I'm sure in the chip shortage that's absolutely true right now but your whole point was that in the future if there was an alternative people would choose it and in order for that argument to make any sense there has to be an alternative eventually and yeah and I've said I've said a few times now that there are companies I could do it Microsoft Dell big companies they're not gonna do it for Linux though dude well but that's no but the thing is is Microsoft is not a chip designer and never has been okay they have a chip now it's a Qualcomm chip they've put their name on okay they're not a chip designer I'm not saying that they couldn't buy up a chip designer and did do Apple that they could they have the money to do it Dell has the money to do it but they don't they just buy chips from Intel and AMD okay so the reason the reason why there are companies that exist like forget about Qualcomm you got very focused on Qualcomm and the phones they're from NVIDIA makes chips that run Linux right now and sell them to and puts them in servers now I know there's not any chips available for systems 76 to go hey you and I'm coming shopping for some chips I know that doesn't exist right now but eventually the chip shortage will end hopefully and it's possible I mean system 76 is like that completely broke or anything they could eventually maybe perhaps buy some chips someday I'm not talking about right now but in order to create that mythical alternative that you wanted you know ten minutes ago you know eventually that's where they're going to get the chips they're not system 76 is never or any of those other Linux based hardware developers is never going to have as you said they are indeed create their own chip we agree on it okay yeah Microsoft even if they were to create their own chip isn't going to do it and allow Linux to run on it okay so they're not okay or or it's not okay I mean they're never going to sell it to other people to make Linux run so if they have a consumer-based processor that's things going to run Windows they may create an ARM-based processor that runs Linux but for servers they're never going to create a consumer-based chip that runs Linux I don't think that that's ever going to happen I I would bet money on it okay why would they they wouldn't design it with it in mind obviously but if so if anybody else was to make a chip what she would what you're saying is that Microsoft would create a chip that only runs Windows and then somebody would get on there and create a Linux distribution that would then run on it just like I don't know so by default no matter what it's by default no matter what especially if it's made by Microsoft it's going to run what they intend to run on it by default right but it will be designed in a way like do I think that Microsoft like again and anybody who's watch watch me talk about Microsoft for long enough knows I'm not a fan of Microsoft but comparatively like if we're comparing Microsoft to Apple I have more faith that Microsoft won't design it in a way that is going to lock it down to their platform you are a delusional happy little person aren't you I mean overall it makes sense alright so they have that TPM chip in their laptops and requiring it now on all computers right and that was the beginning of locking things down and they also have something called like the the dragon or I don't remember some really weird name right now and they've there are some laptop manufacturers that have enabled us Lenovo is one of them right they've enabled them on some laptops and on those laptops there you cannot run anything but Windows okay that's the future of Microsoft's operating system is where is locking it down in the name of security having these security chips that you can only run Windows on the laptop that's reason why people fright freaked out about those IBM or not IBM Lenovo laptops that could only run Windows because they're very very worried that they that Microsoft is going to mandate that every manufacturer has those chips and therefore it would be almost impossible to get Linux run on this you know so if we think that Microsoft would develop an arm based chip that doesn't also have that security stuff on there that would prevent people from running anything other than what they wanted it to now here's the I mean obviously Apple has those things too and it still hasn't stopped Linux from being developed for it but that kind of defeats the purpose of the entire argument because your argument was that Microsoft would create a chip that would be able to be put into a device that could run Linux fairly easily right that was your argument no no my argument was that they would they're one of the few companies that is capable of making a chip period like that was just it but okay I I mean go into a device like Microsoft already kind of makes products kind of they're shitty but whatever like those you could just grab and put Linux on well do I think that they would make arm devices that are more likely to be like that like it is today with their devices than Apple will ever do yeah I mean you may be right there but the thing is if you ever if you've ever heard of anybody trying to install Linux on a surface device you'll know pain from hell because it's not easy in the lease and it's worse on there also they it's not really like I will say that's not really a design thing from like Microsoft they just they like they put the most basic bios possible on those devices like it's then they require specific drivers that just aren't available for Linux you know so and the thing is like they have arm based things now but they don't use Microsoft processors because Microsoft doesn't design processors they use Qualcomm stuff right so yeah wow we really disagreed like I like I kind of hate you right now I'm not gonna lie like I'm kind of not friends with you anymore right like we just had it on what a horrible way to enter friendship like that we disagreed on arm processors that was like really weird right you did a friendship over phone processors oh so I alright so what I think and whether you agree with us or not it doesn't really matter I think that eventually coming there is a market to there is a market for Linux hardware I don't think it's a very big market right it's it's not a very big market when you compare it to the general hardware market in general it's not very big but it is a market that's probably you know a few billion dollars worth it's probably worth a few billion dollars right who I mean there's a reason why Dowl and Lenovo and HP have Linux laptops they wouldn't create those things that they were going to make no money so because there's this market there there will be a market for ARM based Linux laptops where they get those chips you and I can disagree with I don't as of right now neither one of us really knows where they're gonna get the chips they will get them eventually it's from somewhere whether it's you know Texas instruments or Nvidia or whatever you know eventually that I mean eventually the chip shortage will go away and they'll be able to buy some you know or have them developed by TSMC or whatever I mean TSMC is the founder that does apples and and AMD and so I guess I mean they're building more factories and stuff like that and like Wisconsin and Brazil and stuff so I mean they're gonna have more ability to create these chips I mean eventually there will be the ability to design a laptop that has ARM based technology inside of it that comes from places like that eventually I mean I don't know if it's gonna be you know right away but eventually so I mean I think that I mean we kind of meander it off the point as we're shouting at each other and in calling each other names and if we were in the same state we had been pulling each other's hair okay like no damn it I'm right you're wrong so I think that eventually that will happen and I think just to kind of bring all back together that when that does happen the work that is being done right now on Apple products at least will at least somewhat help that development later on down the line whether how much that development actually does help I don't know I'm not a developer we'd have to ask but I mean and I'm sure the developers right now don't even really know is this mythical machine that we're talking about that'll eventually exist doesn't actually exist right now it almost I mean we've talked about this before like ARM is the future eventually I mean because eventually I mean yes Intel will continue doing x86 stuff for many years in the future but eventually Intel will see the light and realize that ARM is the future and they'll start developing ARM chips that then they will start selling to everyone okay same with AMD eventually AMD will run to the point where they can no longer miniaturize their chips anymore and go to the you know the 90th you know whatever you know and then they'll start developing ARM chips with I mean so I mean because ARM is the future more and more chip foundries and chip developers will pop up and some of them will be very very big corporations and chips will come from and when that does happen we'll finally see some Linux hardware that develop that runs ARM hardware and the consumer market and the consumer market I mean that's the biggest thing because like a lot of people like probably throughout our conversation and us disagreeing we're like you know what this whole this whole like debate is useless there already is plenty of Linux ARM devices but they're just not they're not powerful enough to like to do it won't do many daily tasks yeah the stuff that's consumer focus is just not there yet right you got you got though you got the Raspberry Pi and you have the pine six four stuff that stuff is never going to be you know like top tier desktop replacement stuff right it's just not there yet but the thing is is that almost all technology all consumer computer technology filters from the enterprise down to consumers right that's the way almost has always worked from the beginning of technology like the reason why a lot of computers were created were to create big you know data sets and they were going to go through datasets they punch cards and stuff like that was beginning of the server right and eventually that translated down into workstations and stuff like that to the point where people can have things sitting on their desks and it no longer takes up an entire network. Now the biggest area where arm is succeeding isn't not only with phones but also with servers like you can get like a 300 core processor arm processor that runs in a server somewhere that uses a quarter of the energy that an Intel one would and that's the powerful that's where all the powerful arm stuff goes and that's stuff there it's running Linux right it's running right now so that's what I was trying to get at earlier like it's wild because we already have really insanely good arm processors in our phones and we just need the desktop manufacturers and stuff to be able to get their hands on these types of chips and then like the arm Linux desktop is not just like a thing it's easily a thing like most people like most people have a phone like if you can afford a phone that with one of these processors then you should be able to afford a desktop with it as well should you need it like that's kind of the goal that we should be able to get to and it does honestly make no sense that there's not availability for these chips for those kinds of devices yet I mean there's a whole other conversation to be had around whether or not Linux laptop manufacturers would even want to buy something from Qualcomm because Qualcomm is like notoriously shady right I mean like shady AF when it comes to licensing agreements and stuff like that there's a reason why like if you buy a Samsung phone here in the United States it has a Qualcomm device and if you buy it in Europe it has a Samsung chip in it and that's not because Samsung wants to use Qualcomm stuff here in the United States it's because they're forced to you know I mean like they literally have to otherwise they can't sell it here right so there's a big question over whether or not any Linux hardware manufacturer would ever want to get into bed with Qualcomm because they're like seriously evil like we think like Google and Apple and we just had this whole conversation a few minutes ago about how Apple likes their closed gardens I mean Qualcomm could give them you know lessons let me show you how it's done son you know what I mean I wouldn't know why anybody would want to buy I mean other than they have to that's the reason why Samsung is right they have to you have to be like a really really bad corporation if that's the way you do business the only reason why people buy from us is because they're literally forced to at gunpoint it sounds like a mafia movie there's definitely some mob stuff going on here yeah but we actually have like legit companies like and that's the way they do business like you either buy our stuff or you don't sell anything and the US government is like yeah it's okay because they're an American company we're fine with it it's not a monopoly okay if it was if it was Huawei or you know TSMC or Samsung you know something that was built in any other country no no completely different no no you guys are evil obviously in cahoots with the Chinese obviously you're a national security risk it has nothing to do with the fact that we want American companies to only be we're American we want American companies to do really well but even we can see that that's shady as fuck alright so that is the main topic that was a very lively discussion we hardly ever disagree on stuff but you're still really wrong I'm just putting that out there whatever your opinion is you're wrong alright so moving on to the very to the main topic man what are you doing we're gonna do that all over again because Matt forgot to hit the record button it's gonna be terrible be really bad no no no it's there it's right there it says stop recording that means I did good you know I was watching one of Brody's videos the other day and he was talking about how the new version of OBS is going to let you customize some of the colors and he made a fantastic point in that version he said if you're able to make the start and stop record button a different color so it stands out so that you don't accidentally press it I never thought about that before but it's gray the right default is gray just like all the others and yes it gets darker gray when it's recording but can you think of it if it was red you'd have a much harder time pressing it by accident because everybody knows you don't press the red button so I was like damn that was a really good idea good job Brody you got a really good idea alright so moving on to the last section of the podcast we call this thing very creatively thingies of the week we could have called it something else but those names were all taking it and they thingy of the week just kind of as stuck so Tyler you're thingy of the week mine is the Unity Hub package from the AUR if for any reason you're interested in game development and also want to check out Unity on Linux I highly recommend you not use the flat pack the flat pack caused me a lot of issues and the engine what it would actually install and load up would I would get random errors and just different stuff that was non-existent on the AUR version of Unity Hub so again if you're interested in game development and you want to try out Unity for whatever reason I highly recommend you get it from the AUR versus the flat pack I don't know about any other installation method or whatever haven't really tried them but just saying the AUR version is much more reliable and stable than not so yeah cool so we both actually have gaming ones this week so we've spent a lot of time talking about gaming this time mine is Dead Cells and this is an old game but it is very good and I'm not very good at it like I said earlier I'm playing with a trackball and playing gaming with a trackball is not it's not a good idea unless you're really really good at it like I've gotten better at it but it's still not very accurate but even with a mouse I wouldn't be very good at it anyways so I've just stuck with it but it is just astonishingly fun and it's one of the first Windows games that I've been able to play on Linux just out of the box I mean I know everybody else has this amazing success with gaming like oh yeah I've played Grand Theft Auto and I've played Red Dead Redemption and all this stuff I've never been had that much success this time I'm playing a Windows game and it runs fantastic I've played like Spyro is a great Windows game and it's a really good game and it runs well on Linux but when I'm running it my computer sounds like it's about to take off into space the fans are really loud when I play that game and the temperatures on my machine get up into like the 90 degree Celsius range yeah so that game is not well playable on Linux even though it looks fine so yeah the dead cells play basically the fans don't start going crazy like I would have expected them to it just works really well and that's with Proton GE so like I said earlier if you're going to install Steam on Fedora and you're not tied to an existing pre-installed library like Tyler is if you're just going to download your games use the flat pack download the flat pack of the Proton versions I downloaded like three or four of them because then I can switch between them if I have a problem and it's been a fantastic experience if you are like Tyler and you're going to use an existing downloaded game library download flat seal and give Steam the permissions to your game library folder then you'll have a better look of actually being able to access those things because by default you won't be able to get to those yeah if you install the flat pack versions like this is just like this is just hopefully somebody who is going to install Steam will see this before they do do it and install it through the flat pack if you've got your games already installed on another library and you install the flat pack of Steam when you try and execute the game you'll get this weird error talking about like I think sometimes it's to do with right sometimes it might be to do with something else but like you'll get an error it'll mention like right or something like that in it if you do get that pop up all that means is do exactly what Matt said install the flat seal edit the permissions for the like specific you know wherever your Steam library is and then you'll be good it's just it's one of those things where like if you don't know that that's a thing it can be really really confusing and kind of upsetting because Steam works like the flat pack of Steam works perfectly fine but you'll the people who will notice a problem with it will only be those people that have an existing Steam library and try accessing it without editing those permissions then it'll have a problem flat seal really should be something that is default yes it should when you install like if your distro runs flat pack by default it should come with flat seal installed yes it should you should definitely do that so anyways for this video for this podcast we had a very good discussion here so if you are having any thoughts on this kind of stuff and you're watching this post when we're done here leave those in the comment section below we'd love to hear from you and also I'm sorry to cut you off but someone in chat said no plug for Steam Deck this week and I just want to be honest with everybody Matt told me I couldn't because I plugged it too many times that is the biggest piece of bullshit I've ever heard out of your mouth Matt is saying something given all the other stuff last week after the show you did say no more plugging the Steam Deck you've done it first of all I let you plug the Steam Deck earlier in this episode I asked you if you're still plugging the Steam Deck just because I said you couldn't do it more than once an episode doesn't mean well actually I guess to be more accurate you told me I couldn't add it as my thingy of the week again because you use it twice in a row cheating you can't use every single week until eternity until it dies that's not the way it works you're fired again sorry I don't remember where I was at so anyways leave a comment make sure you subscribe you can support us on patreon patreon.com just like all of these fine people you can also get 10% off if you support for a year in advance but anyways thanks everybody who does support me on patreon patreon.com thanks everybody who supports me on youtube as well I sometimes forget about you guys I apologize for that but for whatever reason youtube does not send out emails when you get a new member on youtube so I've heard that you've supported me on youtube and I missed you I apologize message me on facebook or on twitter or discord or something check it but you don't get any notification that you have to have a new member so they just it's fine if you're not going to give them any perks like putting them on the credit screen but I try to at least look on that it also makes it really hard when someone stops being a member you get no notification that somebody deleted their pledge I mean that happens all the time people give a certain amount of money then they move on which is expected the thing is you get no notification of it so I had a guy on there who supported me for one month he was on there for 6 extra months and not a big deal but it made it harder to edit that I had to do an audit in order to post some of the people off and they weren't supposed to be on there anymore anyways that's supposed to be easy really difficult why does youtube have to overcomplicate things just send out notifications seriously I get 42 emails an hour from youtube one of those couldn't be a notification that I had a new member seriously the amount of carbon that they've spent sending me emails about people who have subscribed to my channel I got a lot of subscribers I love all of you subscribers you're all fantastic but I do not need an email letting me know that you subscribed I've gone live on youtube I know I've gone live on youtube you don't need to send me an email I like the idea of you having a really good day and getting 800 subscribers in a day this is awesome but then just looking at your inbox if you're just starting out on youtube those emails are fantastic they mean a lot they mean the world I know this it's horrible when you get up to 20,000 subscribers it's just I can't read all of them they still mean a lot but when you get 800 in one day you're like dude come on at least one of them could possibly be you know a notification that hey you got a new member congratulations new anyways that's it for this week we'll be next week with a topic of some kind I'm not sure what we're going to talk about anyways see you very next week bye