 Good morning. It is January 6 and welcome to Vermont House Judiciary Committee. We are here today. We're going to be learning about justice reinvestment to workgroups work and have my dogs. I'm sorry. I'm very honored to have Chief Justice Paul Riber, through Monster Preudent Court, who is the chairman of the working group to tell us about the working group and share some insight to the work. And anything else you'd like to share with us, we always enjoy having you here in the committee and this is certainly not going to be the first time we hope you'll come back when we have more time and hopefully in the building. Good morning and welcome. Thank you. Thanks so much. Thanks as always for this opportunity to speak to you to talk with you. I have to confess this morning I had a actually vision of walking to my death in my house at the desk where I work principally I'm at court in Montpelier. Oh, a couple of times a week, sometimes although since the since the spike has occurred I've, I've, I've stayed away. I had a vision this morning of leaving my office just thinking through leaving my office and walking up the hill to your chamber for this discussion, which is something I always relish look forward to and enjoy doing. You know, I'm, I'm a people person that's that's the truth of the whole matter. You know, I just, I like, I like people I like talking to people and we in the past as some of you might remember I had a Friday morning 8am visit where I just made myself available usually brought some members of either the court or the court administrator's office up with me and we, it was an opportunity to have casual conversations. We tried to do it last year. And it, it was okay but you know very understandable. It sort of, it wasn't the same so I'm not doing it this year because I'm hoping that before too long. We're going to be back face to face and but that is not to say that I don't. I'm not available. Certainly available to each of you as as issues or questions may arise as you probably well know our court administrator pack gable has taken a well deserved retirement effective at the end of the last month. And we have a interim court administrator, Scott Griffith, who has really quite extensive experience before he joined us coming he came to us from Texas although he's originally from New England. And he's filling in the seat pat seat. For the moment, we are embarking now just now. Actually, we started in December before pad left on a search for a new court administrator. We've engaged the National Center of State courts for state courts entity. And I think you're all familiar with who is based in Williamsburg, Virginia, and I've had a very strong and and close relationship with those people for a number of years and they're very very good they're very professional and they are helping us and going to actually act as a great if you will to the to the effort we're putting together part of that effort incidentally, which I published to the judicial branch yesterday or that maybe it was a day before includes the establishment of a committee. I don't think we're calling I forget what we call it now it's a committee. I wanted to say it's a search committee but not not particularly so it. Here's how the process is going to work if I can just lay that out because you may be interested. The National Center for State courts we've we are about it's very imminent now to post a job description and an invitation to apply that will go out nationally will be obviously put up on our website will go on the National Center website, but it'll be posted in all of the usual places. There'll be a deadline for submitting applications that I think is the end of January somewhere in there. And then the National Center in its role. And this is a very valuable step for us to be to be to be certain. We're going to take a first cut at the applications we received, you know, I, I cannot predict how many applications we're going to receive. I tend to think we may receive quite quite a lot. I can tell you this we, I had just, I've just hired a new law clerk for starting next September. A young man from who's out at the law school in California, but had a has a JD from Harvard as well. But when I opened up the application process. I was stunned that we had over 60 applications for this opening. And my process for soliciting applicants for this job is late, so to speak. We, and typically we would have advertised last summer early last summer, even late spring for a hiring decision by September of 2021. So I was late and I could go into the reasons for that, but I won't unless you're interested. And anyway, but over 60 applicants, many very, very highly qualified people. And so I'm sort of expecting that we're going to have a number of applications for Pat's job. Which would be very good and and NCSC is going to take its first, the first cut and whittle it down to five, six, seven, something like that. And then the committee that we've just appointed, which includes trial judges, court clerks, court operations managers and others that bar association. We'll then review the the first cut that the center sends to them, and they'll narrow it down to three or four and they'll send that to the Supreme Court and then we'll engage in our own process of interviews and a final selection. So that's how it's going to work and I'm very hopeful. We're going to have a permanent new court administrator this spring. But of course, saying that I'm reminded as well that, you know, one of our dear colleagues, Beth Robinson has just left to join the federal bench. And so, as I think all of you are probably aware, the judicial nominating board is in the throws right now of setting up interviews and I'm not sure I think the interviews maybe even this weekend I'm not clear when exactly it's going to take place but I know that they to their credit have it on a fast track. So that's much appreciated. Anyway, it's been a season of change there's no question about that we at the same time had the retirement in the fall of my good friend Brian Greerson, who took a well deserved job at the end of October I think it was November one and Terry Scott who was the chief of trial court operations also retired and we have replacements for both of those jobs at Tom's own a judge Tom's own a who I'm sure you'll get to know if you don't already has taken over in judge Greerson spot and Laura candy. Terrific person who is got tremendous experience in the courts for many, many years and has the great respect of everybody in the branch. She has taken Terry Scott's place and is doing she and both she and judge zone I can't tell you how pleased I am with how it is going. It's not to say that we have an easy road that we're traveling right now it's it's there are many, many bumps. I visited up in St Albans the other day face to face, which I've started doing a little more of which I'm glad to be able to have the opportunity. You know, courts, some of the courts are really facing a tough tough times there's no question that the the there's a backlog that has been built up, particularly in criminal cases which is something that and it's not in every county but it's in some counties and we are working to try to address it. Obviously the fact that people, some people are in detention is a serious serious problem that weighs on us weighs on everyone and we've moved some of these trials jury trials into other counties where the courthouse in the specific county where the defendant is lodged or is charged is not equipped for reasons of ventilation and etc is not equipped to handle a jury trial so we're making progress I would say we're trying to hold our own. I think the morale is okay. It's episodic, but we're working very hard to try to maintain a positive attitude with folks, even as the you know the the virus recurs and you know to the great disappointment of everyone I'm sure. I'm happy to answer questions about any of that but I know the time is is limited and I want to speak to you specifically about the chair's request regarding justice reinvestment this is a terrific project that your leadership and the governor and I signed on as well pursued began a couple years ago it's justice reinvestment to Roman numeral two and I could tell you something about Roman numeral one but I won't take up time doing that now but it started this project started I think three or four years ago this is the second iteration of the of justice reinvestment to that is just concluded at the end of December and it it I think was quite successful and I can't say enough about your chambers involvement your chairs involvement and others in contributing to the work that the that was done some of which was was difficult and not easy for sure but the you know the principle behind the reinvestment effort this is how I have viewed it and I think others as well is that it was a process rooted in the truth and trying to get to the truth of what our particular situation is in Vermont with regard to incarceration and related matters and I think that the people from the council state governments the justice center who assisted in this effort really were just very professional they were terrific that the proceedings the effort that was undertaken which principally included the production of data and statistics from all three branches with respect to these difficult issues about people aging in the in the jails about racial justice which is an extremely important issue I think the pursuit of the of the understanding of these issues was done certainly in good faith and with humility demonstrated by everyone who was willing to accept and recognize the faults in our own systems mine included and the point of being a course to try to improve how we're approaching the not only the identity of the issues but also resolution and engagement in the process of resolution you know the the the court my court is now considering as a result of this effort and we will soon convene a commission on racial justice in the courts if you read the report that is issued now out of the justice reinvestment to project what you see is that and I've got some of these numbers written down I want to get them right that in 2019 black people in the state of Vermont were three times more likely to be a defendant in a misdemeanor case they were six times more likely than whites to be a defendant in felony cases and they were 14 times more likely than whites to be a defendant in felony drug cases they were six times more likely jailed than the white population and by the way each of these disparities remains even when the statistics are controlled for matters of residency and criminal history in other words I think I know there was a great suspicion initially that any numbers that we found through these efforts that showed a higher incidence of racial disparity and sentencing and incarceration and charging as well would be mainly attributed to the fact that we have out of staters who come through Vermont are either trafficking sometimes in drugs or are you know coming through Vermont for whatever reason and are are arrested and incarcerated and so the suspicion initially was that that was what would account for any of these racial disparities what CSG found was to the contrary even when adjusted for those factors for residency and criminal history by the way as well there still were these very very substantial conflicts if you will between the incidents of incarceration for these different kinds of charges both misdemeanors felonies and felony drug cases and none of those factors neither of those factors account for it so I know that there is legislation that is going to be proposed some of the work of the I think a very important part of the work of the reinvestment effort focused on the schedule if I can call it that of probation and parole furlough these kinds of release initiatives that the legislature has undertaken over the years in order quite understandably to provide incentive to criminal defendants to address their problems that wind up creating high rates of recidivism but the number and variety of different sorts of early release programs that we had sponsored to my understanding from CSG's work we stood alone in the country in respect to such a complex and very different approach in a way that perhaps is not beneficial ultimately to the defendants into the system that we're trying to manage so that is another area that the that the effort focused on so our commission the final thing I wanted to point out is what we're going to do is to look at the issue of diversity equity and inclusion putting together a commission of people who are representative interests of different aspects of the justice system excuse me the point being that over a period of time they will report back to the Supreme Court reflecting on a better understanding of the problem that exists including the lack of data which is a serious problem in our branch we don't have the kind of data that we really need in order to make a proper analysis of this problem with an so that the first step will be to gain a better understanding and then to evaluate the problems that are identified and finally to take action and these will be through recommendations again to the Supreme Court I expect that the effort will take place over the next year and a half or so and I think it's a very important part it's part of a national focus by the way that has been brought to bear by again our friends at the National Center for State Courts who have actually convened a special task force that is looking at this and helping states like ours come to grips with inequities and in the way in which justice is is administered by the way I do not perceive overt discrimination on the part of any judge in this state he is doing their work we have already in place extensive training that takes place with new judges in particular and new staff as well by the way with regard to matters of bias and implicit bias which is an extremely important aspect of this problem so this is not a new question the issue of bias and prejudice is not a new question for us in this regard because we have been taking it seriously for many years but that's not to say that we have ever made a full evaluation of the of the potential for there being issues of implicit discrimination or even overt discrimination in the way in which we are operating all of the various aspects of the justice system including committees, boards, commissions and the like and it's very important for us to to make sure that we are taking effective steps to address these problems such as they may exist so I'll be happy to answer any questions those are the comments I have madam chair be happy to answer any questions that members may have thank you we have very few minutes because we do need to join the joint hearing with the other committee. Any questions anybody have a quick question. It's hard because I'm sure we have so much to ask him to discuss with you so I think maybe be glad to come back. Be glad to come back anytime. Yeah, but I want to thank you so much for highlighting the very disturbing racial disparities that that many of us new have existed throughout the system, but frankly they haven't taken the necessary. Many of us have taken necessary leadership but not really have not. Yeah, yeah, as much as we could and should and I'm certainly committed to continuing continuing the work and members of this committee have been very involved in looking at the data the lack of data. Representative LeLonde and Christie at working also over long last year and also along in fall so you'll see a bill on that and so really really do appreciate you being here and underscoring really how important the work is and the need for us to to really do the work and and make it a priority. So I, I appreciate it on behalf of you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for the work you all are doing. Very grateful for that. All right, I'll come back again. Okay. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. So committee. Amber sent us the link is very helpful at 841 this morning right everybody have it so we'll switch over to that to that link because that's how you do. And yeah, thank you.