 Welcome everyone to this live stream session at the World Economic Forum and your meeting 2024. We're looking at net zero industries. I'm Juliet Mann, an anchor at CGTN and the host of Talk Show The Agenda. And I'm delighted to be here with you. We're going to be talking about how manufacturers are going to be able to collectively harness new technology, new innovation to to really navigate the green transition sustainably, but at the same time to maintain growth because you know what, this is a sector that accounts for one-fifth of global carbon emissions and it uses about half of the world's fossil fuels, their energy. So even though going green is the buzz of the boardroom and a lot of commitments have been made on that journey to net zero, only one in two companies is on target to meet their goals. Now, if you in the audience here that think that's not good enough and you'd like to know what we can do about it. Well, you are all in the right place. So what is holding manufacturers back? Well, there's a bunch of technical, financial and organisational stuff. Access to information can be limited. And as we'll hear, many industrial companies are realising that not that they can't do it alone, but that it makes more business sense to partner up and collaborate along every step of the supply chain. So what we're going to do is we're going to look at the good practices. We're going to look at the new technology and the innovation that's out there, and we're going to pinpoint what needs to happen next. And by the way, this session is linked to the industry net zero accelerator initiative at the World Economic Forum Centre for Advanced Manufacturing and Supply Chains. And if you want some bedtime reading, the latest white paper on this is the No Excuses Opportunities to Tackle Scope Three Emissions in Manufacturing and Value Chains. And what happens here is going to shape the strategy of this initiative in the year ahead. So it's important stuff, important stuff. So we've got lots to talk about and at the end there's going to be a chance for all of you in the audience to ask your questions. So get thinking. I'm going to introduce you to our panel. Really excited to have all of you here. First of all, we have Gwen Isuette, who is the Executive Vice President of Europe Operations at Schneider Electric in France. And she's also a World Economic Forum Young Global Leader. We've got Holger Klein, the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of ZF Group, recently back in Germany after a long stint in China. And he's also part of the Alliance of CEO Climate Leaders. Another one of those is Bran Cheng, the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Foxconn Industrial Internet from China. And here we have Martin Lundstedt, the President and Chief Executive Officer of Volvo, Sweden, another one who's part of the Alliance of CEO Climate Leaders. So first, I think we need to set the scene. Where does the manufacturing sector currently stand on the path to net zero? Bran, let's start with you. All right. So actually, if we look at the manufacturing segment, it is a supply chain. Actually, it will present about 30% of greenhouse carbon emissions. So it's a lot of challenges, especially for SME, because data transparency might involve with cost, might involve with technology challenges, a lot of barriers. So I think the collaboration will become very important. A couple of points you should raise up. One is the policy and regulation, which means in each region maybe requires some standard and incentive of the regulation for you to follow up. Second thing is like financial and investment. So it's still very challenging to mention the cost or the concern in the business, right? So I think in the manufacturing segment, we probably need more financial entity to invest and also have some financial support to let them do the digitalization to make the data transparency. Number three, probably is like R&D. R&D by the research and development and the new technologies to resolve the issue we are facing. So somehow we still need a leader in each industry. Four is risk management platform, which we need to build a common platform so everybody can follow the standards I mentioned. Like that. So as a joint effort, I build a showcase first, then with a new technology moving along and gradually we can hit the commitment for the net zero. Eventually like that, that's my observation. Well, we were talking before Martin and Holger was saying that you are leading the industry in the way you're bringing all the suppliers with you. How would you say that the big picture is for manufacturing on that path to net zero? But I think we have of course been working with these topics for a long period of time, not at least when it comes to scope one and scope two. Just to give one data point, I mean our biggest operation in Europe, that is our regent operation for truck assembly in Belgium, became fossil free net zero in 2008. So the scope one and scope two journey and also when it comes to buying energy etc. has been ongoing for a long period of time. We know how to do it and its execution if I put it like that. The big thing that is happening now is the discussion around scope three and that is really positive for everyone in the value chain. Because what is happening is that if you take Volvo as an example, 2040, we should deliver everything fossil free, which is a huge undertaking, means that we need to have material change 25, 2030, given the fact that we are a 55 billion company in 190 countries. And that means that drive of the scope three that represents almost 90 plus percent of our emissions is just a joint effort. And what we are doing now, both downstream and not at least upstream, then when it comes to the manufacturing that represent maybe 70 percent of our added value is to actually partner up with our key partners when it comes to the tier one structure, because they can also lead the way to supporting us for their partners and their partners upstream. And this is a big shift also when it comes to the the traditional relation between people in the value chain that has been rather transactional moving to a much more of a partnership structure. So Andrea Forde, for example, our chief purchasing officer is really driving a cultural change on how do we source? How do we actually transmit the message in order to get that journey going? And how do we actually take a leading in some cases in order to really get the needed moving also ready to play a premium if needed already to co-invest to make it happen, etc. So the scope three matter here is the big shift. And that is because everyone talks about ecosystems, but at the end of the day, ecosystem must be meaningful and the ecosystem in the complete value chain is a very, very meaningful ecosystem in order to get to net zero. So it's not enough just to say, right, this is Volvo's goal for 2024, you need to reach out, you need everyone to be on the same page and to be able to take those steps as well. So when I, let's talk about those shifts that are needed for net zero to be that engine for sustainability, but also that engine for growth. What's the outlook at Schneider Electric? Well, thank you very much. I think you have the right question because in the industrial sector, first we think about quality, we think about cost, we think about productivity, we think about, you know, delivery on time. And we question about sustainability. And what we have to showcase is that it's hand in hand. In reality, sustainability is bringing productivity. And just to give you one example, within Schneider Electric, we started journey on sustainability 20 years back. We have grown the business by four times. So it's just good for business. Yes, it's good for business. Is it easy? No, it's not easy because it's a culture shift. You have to embark, you know, the manufacturing, the industrial setup so that people are truly committed. And that's the big shift that we have to make. First, it's not really technology because technology exists. It's scaling the technology. But before that, it's really making sustainability as a priority and making sure that we walk the talk in everything that we do in an organisation. And the second element, rebounding on what you were saying earlier, is that it's not only us, is every partner's customers, suppliers, how to embark them. Just to give you one example, when we started a journey on sustainability, we wanted to embark on suppliers. So we said, let's take our 1,000 suppliers, trying to reduce that emission by 50% in 2025. Was that a condition of doing business with them? Yes, it was a condition. But we didn't know how to achieve that. And I think it's good because in sustainability, if you reach or if you determine a target that you know how to reach, you will not reinvent. And the way we're thinking about sustainability, we're thinking about business model, we're thinking the way we address manufacturing, we're thinking the way we approach suppliers. So we didn't know how to reach this target. But finally, it took like two years for us to reach out to the suppliers to embark them in the journey, to do training, because they didn't know how to calculate carbon footprint and to bring them into that direction. It's just to show that at the end of the day, it's culture beyond technology that is already existing, scaling and it's embarking suppliers and customers in this journey. So in terms of that culture beyond the technology, who is setting the tone? What best practice solutions from the private and public sector are helping make the progress to achieve that industry net zero? Let me start perhaps here in Davos. I think we have a great commitment of the leaders here in Davos who really want to make a difference with their companies. And I think the first mover Alliance is one example where we go into scope three into the verticals. For example, we as an automotive supplier to customers like Volvo, etc. We committed on on buying 10% of our global steel volume now is green steel. And what was something which was created here in Davos and all of us now went out there and asked for green steel and that creates then the capacity in the market because otherwise it doesn't make sense. There needs to be always a business logic behind it. For me, the interesting building out what Martin said is now what do we master? And where do we see our challenges? And I would say for us as a company, we by 2040 will be climate neutral. In 2030, we will have reduced our emissions in scope one and two. Everything we can influence by 80%. And for scope three, only 40% and you ask why only 40% because we need to bring the value chain along. But the proof point is now not 2040. We need to measure it really year by year. And if I look at those numbers, hey, it's only six years from now. I need to come back here and tell you it worked. And this is where we are all in it together. And I feel the momentum. This is different from what we have perhaps seen a couple of years ago. Now, asking the question, what does it take? So I give you an example. My headquarter is just two hours north from here at beautiful Lake Constance. And if you are out for tourism, it's beautiful. Come and visit. But unfortunately, it's a very remote area. And we have major sized component factories there. So what I need now is infrastructure. I need green energy. I need the investments into green energy. I need hydrogen. And if you think about the map, probably it's not on top of the agenda of the guys who plan the infrastructure now to connect through the southern. That's the town where I have my headquarter. So there's lots to be done in public-private partnerships to create the infrastructure. And regulation-wise, we see a huge diversity, you know, where in China, for example, it's technology open. Do whatever it takes to bring the carbon footprint down. In Europe, we have a lot more regulation. And some of that is very, very complicated and perhaps even misleading. And so perhaps we need to become less complex in that. So I want to talk more about that. What's holding everyone back? Because you're talking and you're all chiming in with each other about how it's important for companies to talk to each other all along the supply chain. But Martin, what about what governments are doing? What policy measures are actively supporting this transition? And what could do better? Who could do better? No, but I think, I mean, it's fair to say that we have seen a number of legislations that have been highly both efficient and effective. If I look at our sector, for example, the euro norms, as we know with euro one, euro two, euro three for emissions, not at least and for the close by emissions, nox particulate matters have played a very important role. And now we are down to levels that are, so to speak, extremely low. And we've had a discussion about the next step. And then when you've had a successful journey, you tend to hold on to that. The thing is that the big shift now is going into purely fossil free solutions. When you, as a spin off effect, get also zero nox and particulate matters. And what I think is a big ask is to continue to, I mean, push regulation in the direction where we want to go, but also the complex when it doesn't make sense anymore, because we have a tendency to add and not to do the cleaning. And I mean, it's like a corporation. We know that from time to time you need to prune the portfolio in terms of product lines, businesses, geography, whatever. We need to prune the regulatory portfolio because otherwise we will not see the forest through all the trees. And the forest here is a net zero journey that is absolutely necessary. And then we need to make sure that we are concentrating on that. So that is number one. Number two, if I take the complete deployment now of because scope three, what is beautiful about that is everyone will come to logistics. You know, everyone has to address logistics and it could be 6 percent of your top line or your emissions. It could be 20 percent, it could be 4 percent. Doesn't matter. Everyone has to do that. The interesting piece about that is that you think about, yes, I have a truck here electric or hydrogen powers, fuel cell powered electric or whatever. That is also free. That is the equipment. But that needs to be times. And I deliberately say times infrastructure, times grid capacity, times green energy, times reasonable CSO in terms of carbon price and reasonable because it's times and all plus because if any one of those are zero, it is zero. That is mathematical proved that these times, right? And that we need to think about. And Europe in particular has not have an intentful view on their balance sheet. In terms of energy systems, in terms of infrastructure, in terms of digital built out, in terms of a lot of different things. When we look at countries and regions like China, Korea, Singapore, it's a completely and many more. It's a completely different view on how does the balance sheet look like in order to host this. We need to come back to that discussion. But the political system for many different reasons that we cannot take today has not been able to do that because I mean, someone said wisely yesterday, we know what is right to do, but we don't know how to be re-elected when we do it. And I think that is a very good way of putting it. And they also need quite a lot of funding to be able to do that. So I wonder if something that could help us maybe new technology. So let's talk about that, Gwen Iel. So the emerging technologies that are really demonstrating that promising potential to help us on this journey. Yes, well, in terms of technology, I think that everybody in this forum are talking today about AI, generative AI, et cetera. And we may think about some applications, but this is also applicable for net zero industry from the manufacturing. And we have to realize that there are plenty of application. Most of the time it starts with the hardware. But then with the hardware, we connect the hardware and with AI, we have plenty of use cases. And that's the power of it. That's the beauty of it because each use case is developed, you know, on a regular basis. So we improve, you know, the production plant. We have more IoT embedded, et cetera. And that's how we develop the industry 4.0. And on that front, I would like to highlight that we have been awarded by the Water Kick Forum Lighthouse, which is very famous, I would say, collaborative network across the Water Kick Forum highlighted that our plant in India, which is Iberabad, has been awarded for that because of all of the IoT inside, et cetera, aiming to reduce the consumption for energy. This is very important. Exactly. By more than 57 percent, and reducing the waste by more than 60 percent. At the end of the day, it's reduction, of course, et cetera. And everything is based first on hardware, but then its software, its AI. And this is where we will see more and more development, more connected products, more efficiency, more applications. Brantone, do you agree, is this and is this how AI is going to set the agenda? Well, yeah, I get something to share with you. For AI, it's so attractive and exciting recently, right? So actually, facing the beauty of AI also we look back what's the impact? You know, actually, when you run an AI server to come out of computing power, it can shoot tons of power as then before. We used to use air cooling, right? But air cooling cannot sustain for like every GPU come with more than 400 watts, right? So you have tons of GPU together. So you are going to offer an entire city to support computing power. Are you going to do that? No. So technology works. So now we come up with a new material, as an example, in the semiconductor segment, the silicon carbide, the third generation of new material, which have a better thermal consumption, better thermal dissipation, lower power consumption. To lower down the power consumption. Second thing is it uses a different approach for cooling, which is going to be liquid cooling system. You know, in addition, what's famous is the immersion cooling. Liquid cooling probably is going to be more popular. So which reduce, so we talk about how to approach this. One is reduce. Reduce is reduce all this kind of power consumption. In addition to that, we have some showcase how to reduce this. Example, like we have global factories, lots of air conditioners. So you're right. So it was a lot of power if you don't upgrade your air condition systems, which applies a lot of IoT systems to come with the data, make sure the data transparency. Then you can buy by means of the AI power, computing power, then with the data you have, then you can come out with the AI to help you to save. So like 2024, probably we're going to save more than 1.3 million kilowatt per hour. And also, the second thing is you can do is not only reduce, also replace with renewable energy or recycled material. As you may know, FI is doing a lot of high-precision mechanical, like CNC, aluminum. In automotive industry, the same, right? So we use a lot of recycled aluminum. So we see the achievement of saving like more than more than 2,800 R&B per ton of the recycled material. And renewable energy, for sure. It also required the ROI for this, right? But more important is to resolve, as I mentioned, new technologies. You use new material, you use new approach of technologies. Then you can make sure the beauty of AI. Otherwise AI use more power, which is going to offer a lot of power. So as a close-up system, you do not only think about the beauty, also you need some solution to balance it. Then you can realize but very important, the framework. As we mentioned that either government or enterprise, like when we in China, the government has a very supportive strength to support us to set up the standard. Like we already passed, hit the carbon peak in 2022 and we're going to finish the new energy, you know, new level of energy by 2035 and it's going to reach in 2050. So all these require lots of collaboration with industries, with governments. So we set a standard and so our scope three, the suppliers know where we want to go. Everything back to the business interest. If the criteria is there, they don't hit, they can lost business. So there is a business interest, so they can incentive to drive themself to meet these. So I touched to that, I tell them, now it's not just an activity or a goal. It's a competitiveness. It's really great. This right inside of your bond cost, your material, is a thing about this. Let me build on this. I think two examples from our industry. First of all, you design the carbon footprint into the product. What does that mean? If you don't start with a product design, you will unwillingly increase the carbon footprint. I give you an example. We now presented a magnet-free electric engine. What does that mean? If you look at the production and the value chain of magnets, that accounts for 50% of the carbon footprint for an electric engine. If you just replace that by an inductive technology, then you can do without. So it starts with our designers and their innovation makes really major steps to solve the problem. And then I go to the other side of the cycle, remanufacturing. And I think for us, circularity becomes more and more important. And it's a super business. We have more than 2,000 people remanufacturing transmissions and other components in over 20 plants worldwide. And I tell you, these remanufactured transmissions are even better than the new ones because certain things you can exclude, like material failure or things like this, this transmission already ran for a while and is as good as new. So it's a business and it saves you another 90 years. Is it saving you money or is it more expensive? Because it's one thing having all of this new technology that's going to increase sustainability. But what about growing your business, too? So growing the business is, of course, on the side where we design the new products. But the aftermarket and the remanufacturing is a growth area for us. Because otherwise, we don't solve our problems in the value chain. Yeah, just to mention that on remanufacturing, we are working together on that, holding on to myself. But we are also doing that. And we see an increasing interest. So it's also, which is very important to your point, is an attitude change also that I'm into taking remanufactured engine or transmission or turbo or whatever. It's actually seen differently than it used to be only five years ago, both because we can actually prove with data that it's actually functioning equally good or, in some cases, better. And talking about growth, this is growth. Because otherwise, it should have just been scrapped. Now it's coming into the cycle again. So that is a business case that is very positive. And if you think about it, if we can dream for a little bit and say, OK, we will have a more global price of CO2, we'll make that model even more attractive. It's already attractive because more and more companies and customers downstream, they are incorporating also the cost of CO2 into their sourcing decisions, which is very, very positive, obviously. Yeah, let's show you about growth. Yeah, so one example for your reference is the first time industrial internet was listed in Shanghai Asia in 2018. At the moment, we have revenue like $50 billion. And also, we come with like 190,000 employees globally. Five years passed. In 2022, we finish $71 billion, which is more than 40% growth. And our hiccups still remain at $190,000. That's because we drive the digitalization binding with the ESG. So first time group, we are driving an equation for SDG, the Sustainable Development Goal, which is equal to EPS plus ESG. Actually, EPS and ECESG, that couple of you mentioned, is complementary. I agree. If you took part of your cost, right, competitiveness, then back to us, if you look at this, we increase the data transparency. So when we do plan-do-check action, then we know how to collect action, collect data, become the analysis. You can divide analysis, right? At the end, you have action for conquer, right? So this makes yourself very clear. And one methodology is build a showcase, then put the whole thing with the milestone you have. Also, in the supply chain, the CEO goal, they follow you. So enterprise like us, you know, frankly, in the industry, we also take a leading position. We need to lead the entire supply chain equal to follow us. Then every industry do the same thing. Then at the end, we will reach the goal. So it's being part of the ecosystem and doing it all together. So I mean, Gwena, what? So just maybe one point to rebound and to expand a little bit on the concept of circularity. OK. Because when we talk about circularity, we are talking a lot about re-manufacturing, which is super good. We have been awarded also by the Lighthouse from the Water King Forum for circularity. It is totally new business model. And it's also a change of mindset, believe it. So many people want to have brand new stuff. They don't want to reuse stuff. They want brand new stuff. So it's a change of mindset. But this is not only re-manufacturing. It's also in our vision of circularity, it's end to end, meaning it's use better. First, we need to use better. It's transparency. So it's premium. It's eco-design. It's everything embedded into a product so that at the end of the day, the consumers knows what they are buying. It's trust, transparency, and environmental performance. Use better. Then it's use longer. How to use longer product? Lifetime extension. How to make sure that we don't replace the wall equipment but just the part that is deficient? This is repair, maintenance models, et cetera. This is the second pillar. And then we have the recycling. And for which it is also super critical, because energy transition is consuming lots of raw materials. If we want to keep the path of development, we need to reuse the raw material. And that's where it comes recycling. But I think circularity. It's the whole ecosystem from use better, use longer, use again. And it's where we can track the momentum. It's not easy because regulation and market is not always ready for it. Everybody here is talking about what their company is doing and how they think they're making a change. But I'm wondering, Holger, where would you like to see more strategic partnerships? What's missing here that could really change the pace and accelerate this journey to net zero sustainably while maintaining growth? There might be some points. I pick one. And I would say, digital and sustainable need to go hand in hand. And what do I mean? There are initiatives, like we are driving as industries, Cartena X, where we are trying to measure the footprint throughout the value chain. And what would that give us? I would have a bottle like this, and I could tell you from the iron ore to the logistics, to the glass, what is the carbon footprint of this bottle? And then I could price it. And I could tell you, now you are doing good because you now pay 20 cents more. But you are very conscious that you have a green product. And this is cross stakeholder, cross value chain. And that's digital. And I think that's something where we can become better. Some of us got started. I need to let these guys into my factory because they can see my data. So in former times, it was a no go. How can I let Martin know what the real cost of manufacturing my plant is? But this is not the point. We partner in a way that he knows exactly what the carbon footprint looks like. I try to do that with my suppliers. And you can take out so many inefficiencies in the supply chain that it becomes a business model again. So short answer, digital, this kind of cross value chain connection. Martin, do you have a short answer? Now, a short answer on that. Just to build on a very good example for us. If you look at the whole battery value chain, for example, we know that on the truck side, since trucks are used, passenger cars are not used. They are used 3% of the available time, as we know. So the battery will last over the whole life cycle, probably. But for a truck, they are utilized 8% of the available time, meaning that if you can track that in real time, what has been the behavior, what has been the cyclicality, et cetera, you can have a very informed decision about, so to speak, what do you do by that when you're taking it out from the truck and utilizing that for a second life and eventually for recycling. Because that is extending the life cycle. But it's also giving a guarantee in because trust is the ultimate human currency. And in order to do that, you need to say, OK, this is what the battery has been all about. Now we can utilize for stationary power or power grid, et cetera. So that is really how the power of connectivity into IoT then and into, so to speak, informed facts that you can utilize them even more forceful than with different levels of AI to take real time decisions that will actually stand alive and make, so to speak, the use cases even better for the first customer and the second customer. So digitalization for sure. So digitalization, circular economy, talking to each other more. I mean, we've had some really interesting themes come up here. And I'm wondering now if we can open this up to the audience, if anyone in our audience has got a question for any of our panelists. Go on, be the first person. Be the first person. Well, while you're... Glory to the grid. Well, tell you what, I'll do the first question, and then maybe somebody will be brave enough to put their hand up. I think what I want to talk to you about more, Gwanael, is the Centre for Advanced Manufacturing and Supply Chairs, and how useful it's been for your business, this accelerator initiative. Has it opened your eyes? Has it given you new connections so that you could forge new partnerships? Yeah, that's a very good question. So first, what we wanted to do is to be exemplary in our manufacturing footprint. We have today 70 plants that are net zero, and we target to be carbon neutral by 2025, so very short time frame. So it means that we operate today in all our different geographies, in digitization, electrification, sustainability, all embedded. When we're doing that for ourselves, it's also a showcase, but, you know, throughout the journey, we have ups and downs. It's not easy, as I was mentioning, in terms of technology, business model, cultural shift, in terms of relationship with suppliers, green materials, for example. How to get green materials today? Not that easy, not mature yet. So what I think is the beauty of the initiative is to connect the dots, to share what we are going through, including sometimes it's difficult, but we share that across the board, and therefore we can be more meaningful. We can step-by-step make progress, and that's how we would achieve these targets. One example, again, on green material, we have an objective, is to have 50% of green materials embedded in our products by 2025. Not easy, so we need to connect dots. We need to have lots of discussion with many suppliers that are shaping the industry of the future, in terms of material efficiency, et cetera. So this is something that is really meaningful in this kind of environment. Pranjeeva. Taking a chance, I want to share about the experience of a lighthouse factory as well. A lot of people think about the advantages of a lighthouse factory, is going to drive your operation efficiency. Yeah, answer is two, but not only. Actually, we also see the effect in energy management. Energy management and security management. So because you digitize everything, so you can combine all the together, and with the human-centric automation with the AI factory, you know. So because automation investment also huge KPEX, right? It also involves your cost. So you can, with the lighthouse network program, it means you build a showcase. A company like us, we are hopefully in 14 countries. Am I going to build every country from zero? No. I better have a showcase. So I can share. I can clone. So I can do title market. Investor is going to challenge me if I do everything from zero, right? Impossible, especially we are ruling into the emerging countries. They may not have a so mature infrastructure. So the only way is to build a showcase for you to practice. This is internally. Internally, we see another case because of this amazing capability we have. Little by our team, just last year, we held an EV company in Guangdong. You know, they, by taking away of a lighthouse approach, they have the limited space for the production. But with the digitalization, with the visualization of data, and also a couple of robots, their capacity increased from 80,000 a month to 100,000 a month. Then, because waiting for a new factory, it needs three years. You're not going to have three years to wait for market demand, right? So when market demand comes, title market, use this approach, they feed it, and they make a record high every six months. So I think this very important to tell us is you do the teddy of a digitalization, but the goal is to build human-sensory, AI-driven data to decision factory for the manufacturing. So I would encourage to use this as an example. Also, a site of effect to us. I really appreciate this effect from a lighthouse program is the whole engineers, they have one target. So they work on the same goal. So then they talk to each other and reach the same goal, and you see lots of return, which you may not imagine at the beginning. So I'd like to share this. It's like when I was talking about how the new iterations of AI are inputting and upgrading and making it different when everyone talks to each other. That's how you get there. Do we have any questions? Yes, we do. This gentleman at the front. Can you say who you are and who are your questions for? Hello. Can you hear me? You can hear me. I'm leading Vercor in battery manufacturing. The question I have is regarding the net zero title for this panel, because I heard a lot of good things regarding reducing the needs, regarding being more efficient, more electrified. But then how do you reach the remaining gap to the so-called net zero? And you haven't spoken enough setting, which was probably something that was quite hype in the past. And I'm really looking forward to understand how you lead that in your companies because reducing is great, electrifying is great. And then for the remaining bits, what do we do? Let's go around the room. Let's start with you, Holger. I mean, that's what I said in the beginning. I guess for us now, the milestones are very important. Do we reach our milestones? And the further we go, the harder it gets. I mean, scope one and two is relatively easy compared to what we discussed with scope three. And scope three has a upstream and a downstream. And we talk now a lot about the upstream, which is how do we solve, for example, the steel challenge? And my business deal is a very important resource. And this will depend now really on, do we get the capacity installed to have green steel? And that's where we act as partners now with the First Mover Alliance. And we have CEOs with a commitment to drive this forward. And this is very pragmatic. That's what I love about it. It's not PowerPoint. That's becoming real. Is this a challenge to come to the pure zero at the end in 2040? Absolutely. Eventually, some of us can even go positive in terms of being a net contributor. But it becomes always more difficult if you ask me. We need to drive the last mile, which is the most difficult together. Otherwise, we have no chance. It's like the queue to get through the security block before you get into that last bit of the journey. Martin, how about you at that last mile? No, no, but I think a great question. And I think the whole story also about really working through your CO2 footprint for real and understand that huge undertaking, by the way, and start really to see where you should go about it. Just to echo what Holger is saying about this, I mean, we need to have, it's interesting also. I mean, I've been studying together with my team also the 8, 9,000 companies that have actually signed for the Science Based Organs, including ourselves. What we see is the 2025 not super material targets to be frank. I mean, it's minus 15, minus 20 maybe. 2030 is a milestone that is super interesting because we need to have really changed the curve. And what is good about the Science Based Organs is that, I mean, you're disclosing it publicly. You're getting it approved. And you need also to disclose progress. And corporates, what is good with corporates, we hate to lose. So, and you hate to see that we are not making progress. And it's not only about the executives. It's also about the colleagues and the teams. And the teams are super excited about it. And then it will be just super hard work to go through vertical by vertical. And it will require innovation. It will require cooperation. It will require new ways of thinking about the partnerships participating earlier in the understanding of the product design together with our T1s, the T2s. We learned a lot about the semiconductor crisis, how we should actually, we worked a lot together. Now, we worked a lot together and it was to fix the shortage. But we learned also that we need to connect the dots completely different, also for innovation. What nodes are we talking about? So, yeah, there is no shortcut at the end of the day. This is the 100% and it must be 0%. So, no shortcuts. That's a good one to take home with us. I'd like to quickly go around the room. I'd like a last word from each of you. I want you to share one thing that you would like to see global multi-stakeholder community do to help push going greener, cleaner more quickly. So, who wants to keep this off? How about you, Brand? In a nutshell, 20 seconds. All right, so I think to share the information is very important. So, the new era is we use a new approach to resolve all the issues. So, new technology and the new capability each enterprise has to build up. You cannot forget when you are resolving all the issues, forget to bring up the new capability. As I mentioned, like a server, okay? We are doing a cooling system, which we never do. We are working with Schneider together to build a nice cooling system, to build a new business, then we resolve the issue, other than just reduce or repress, but also resolve, that's important. Resolve and share information, Martin. Now, I think, I mean, this is a systemic change. We are moving from a brown, fossil-based platform to a green platform that requires a system change, a coordinated shift. My ask would be that everyone, and this is a big ask, actually take the time to reflect about the holistic view about the systemic change, but also understand where can I participate in that systemic change and do that well to execute? So, we are not actually sitting and saying, we didn't do our part because they didn't do our part, but you need to understand holistic to execute on the details. Gwenn Ayel. Well, I think the more we can talk about technologies that are already existing, the better it is, because if we want to realize the 1.5-degree scenarios, in reality, 75% of the technologies already exist. It's just not well-known. In one example, I bet that we ask the question of people, and people will say, renewable energy production, energy production, in reality, there is a bulk of technology on efficiency, and this is where we need to communicate even more. So, I think technology just advocating for technology that are already existing. Really quickly. Cross-stakeholder sharing of digital data. Digital data. Well, this has been a really exciting and insightful panel. Thank you, all of you, for taking part, and thank you to the audience too. You've been great. And if you want to dive deeper into this, into understanding the impact of digital technologies and sustainable transformation for NetZero as well as collaborations on supply change, and I hope you'll be part of it, do continue to keep watching what's going on at the World Economic Forum and continue to take part in panels like these. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.