 Salamu alaikum dear viewers, peace be upon you all. Welcome to our show, commemorating Muharram and the story of Ashura, where we will be discussing different aspects of the story of Ashura. Joining us today on our show is Sheikh Abbas Banjou, Sayyid Mohsin Shah and with some poetry and to add to the discussion, Munda Zarjafa. Our topic today is going to be discussing the motive of Yazid and why he fought Imam Hussein, peace be upon him. We're going to look at why he did it, what were the different roles at play and ultimately how he was unable to recognize, cause chosen authority on the side. Sheikh, starting with you, one thing that comes to mind is that when we go for the pilgrimage to the tombs of the holy personalities, we say this line quite often, I come to you knowing you're right, Araf and Behaqtik, I believe the Arabic is. Yes. What does it mean to know the Imam and the right of the Imam? Because this is clearly lacking on the day of Ashura. Of course. To be very honest brother, the question that you have asked is indeed a fairly deep question that probably needs hours and hours of discussion. However, in a nutshell, Ma'rifah has certain darajat, just like Iman has levels, Yaqeen has levels, Ma'rifah also has levels. So from a theoretical perspective, the concept of Ma'rifah is not a binary issue where it's one or zero. No, there are grades of Ma'rifah, there are certain categories and what is Matlub or what is required is to ascend those ranks of Ma'rifah, the higher of a position at Ma'rifah, the greater our attachment towards Ahlul-Bayt, attachment and obedience towards Ahlul-Bayt. What is sufficient in terms of a nutshell, a summary of an answer which is insha'Allah a comprehensive answer as well, is that Ma'rifah of Ahlul-Bayt is that you not only fully need to recognize but implement in your life, need to understand that the Imam being divinely chosen by Allah SWT is the absolute embodiment of truth in its entirety, number one. And number two, when you understand that the Imam is divinely chosen, embodiment of truth in its entirety, your submission to the Imam needs to be unconditional. This is something which is absolutely difficult to attain but not impossible. Absolute unconditional obedience to the Imam. Do you know the weight of these words? If my akal tells me do X but the Imam says do Y, I do Y. When I understand that submission to the Imam is unconditional because he is the absolute embodiment of truth and divinely selected by Allah SWT, then the wishes and the commands of this Imam should be preferred over my own personal based desires. Could I parallel that to, for example Nabi Ibrahim, peace be upon him, where he was told to sacrifice his son and maybe the intellect might say that's your son but unconditional divine submission to the truth? We wouldn't say that the intellect says this is my son because what we have within the hadith is that the intellect as a faculty understands and drives us towards submission. What I would say is that my emotion or my desire would tell me that my son, my best interest, factors that affect the thinking process of the mind, these external factors might push me away. Overcoming these by having absolute deep recognition that this is the embodiment of truth and unconditional submission is necessary and required and this is all extracted. The istidlales from the Quran where Allah SWT says, Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim Atiullah wa atiur Rasul wa ulil amri min kum Obey Allah, obey the Prophet and the ulil amr when Allah says what is understood. Again, hadith in which there is unanimous agreement between the amr and the khasa that the ulil amr, the first of them is Ameer al-Mu'mineen, Ameer al-Mu'mineen and then by extension the imams from his lineage. When Allah SWT says within the Quran, obey me, obey Allah, obey the Prophet and the ulil amr, is this obedience conditional or unconditional? Unconditional. Like the way our obedience towards Allah is supposed to be unconditional, our obedience towards the imam is also supposed to be unconditional. Understanding this, number two, implementing this in our daily lives, you have the manifestation of this arifun bi haqqik. You find another dimension of arifun bi haqqik and you will find that this is an item or this is this is a concept that comes up repeatedly, not only in the ziyarah of Sayyid al-Shuhada but in the ziyarah of all the ma'asumin. You will find this phrase in the ziyarah of Imam al-Qadim and Imam al-Jawad and Imam al-Ridha. Every imam who's shrine that you go to visit, you will find that this phrase is over there. Arifun bi haqqik. Together with this, an explanatory note of arifun bi haqqik. You find this in its phrases and different variations side of ziyarah ashura, in the ziyarah mutlak of Imam al-Husayn, the numerous ziyarat that are there, and you find it even in the ziyarat of Imam al-Qadim and Imam al-Jawad and so on and so forth. That I have absolute affinity towards you and I disassociate myself from your enemies. This full disassociation from the enemies and 100% alliance and affinity with Ahlul Bayt is a consequence of this ma'rifah because the intellect commands you to side with absolute truth at all times in all places. Say the Muslim, looking at history, so Yazid clearly knew, quote unquote, who the imam was. He knew the imam was saying was. Obviously he didn't have the recognition, that shape described. I mean, when you read history, Yazid's in power, he's got everything, and there's just one man who's saying no to him. What's Yazid's motive to actually go through with this whole campaign against imam? It's one person. Yeah, we look at history a bit more than that. It's very political. Yes. And then from the side of Yazid, what happens is that Yazid, Al-Altul Alay, inherits from his father, his power, his army, his wealth, but no one really takes him seriously and no one sees him to be fitting as a caliph. So what he tries to do is that, okay, I need to support him backing of an individual that can kind of like solidify and people can acknowledge my power. The only person that he thought was always advised would say that, look, if you get the support from this family, Bani Hashim, then it will kind of like, you know, make everything legit, legitimize everything, and your people will recognize you as the caliph. However, this is where imam was saying, Al-Altul Alay said, takes a stance, saying someone like me can never ever give support to someone like you. So this is his main objective here is to kind of like, you know, legitimize his power, simply because even in the public eye no one sees him to be fitting as a caliph. So his motive was to get the support from imam was saying so that he can become the caliph. Imam was saying has a strong stance against him and this is what leads him to actually say and go and say, all right, if you're not going to give me support, either you give me the support or I'll kill you and this is where it comes from. And then we have the, you know, the people rising against Yazidis or in Kufa when, you know, Hazrat Musleh-e-Mineqid goes to see the support because we know that imam Ali was in Kufa, the capital of the Islamic, you know, caliph, it was in Kufa. These people haven't forgotten who imam Ali was and these people haven't forgotten the importance of imam Hussein. So there's a rebellion and a rise against Yazid. We see that Musleh-e-Mineqid goes to acknowledge and to verify that, yes, these people are here to support you and this is where imam Hussein is going towards Kufa to gain that support and probably go and challenge Yazid and his power. Yazid technically comes and stops him in between and is, you know, well, it's quite clear and credible that either join us or you'll be killed. Yeah. So once looking at today's world in particular, what are the parallels you can draw where I'm looking at the angle of imam Hussein is in a minority clearly. We know he had reportedly sent you two companions within versus the tens of thousands that Yazid had. Where do you see in the world today where we may be in the minority but we have to stand up to a bigger power because they might feel threatened by us? Are there any parallels we can draw to the story of Ashura to the modern world? I think there are very many parallels that can be drawn but taking it to a more gross roots level in that to say that places where you have to stand your ground when you're faced with challenges where one side could involve you compromising your faith. Yeah. Especially in the day and age that we live in, in the western societies, in the countries that we live in. One of the challenges that I find as a student is a lot of the time I'm having to stand my ground in terms of listening to music or going to places where we shouldn't be going as as muslim because of what we believe in. See one side of that involved me standing for my faith because I will say I don't go to these places. I don't listen to music because my faith tells me not to. I suppose it's very hard as a student because the university lifestyle that's around us. It's challenging right because it's so normal everyone to do that. Exactly. And you see Yazid had attempted the people so much so that all of them thought that Hussain was in the wrong. Part of the reason some of the narrations say that they didn't let, they wanted to let Imam Hussain pray because he was a muslim but someone pointed out that you know if we let him pray then the people here will see that he's actually doing something right and that he under the assumption that he's doing something wrong. Right? So sometimes you have to stand your ground and that's one of the challenges that I drew or the parallels that I drew from. Yeah because I mean from your perspective you're almost going against the grain aren't you? You're that minority that wants to not have fun. Not have fun. Yeah. That's the thing whereas you've got a higher goal in one. Absolutely. Sheikh did what did Yazid fear? What was he threatened by? What was he threatened? Habibi the the tyrant and the dictator always fears truth. You find this throughout time? Yeah. Why was Pharaoh with all the power that he had fear Nabi Musa? Why did the the Romans in their strength of their empire and the high priests why were they threatened by the message of Nabi Issa? True. Imam Hassan al-Mujtaba salawatullahi wa salamahu alaihi. What fear did he put through to Muawiya even after the sulh even after the ceasefire? You said the number of times sulh al-Hassan the word peace treaty of Imam Hassan is an inaccurate expression when you read through history it was not a peace treaty it was a ceasefire even after the ceasefire when Imam Hassan al-Mujtaba has gone back to Medina Muawiya still poisons him. What was the fear? Imam al-Qadim Musa Ibn Ja'far al-Qadim alaihi salam who seemed to be an abid in the eyes of the normal person an abid worshipper in Medina. What threat did he push to this empire of Bani Abbas? The unborn Imam al-Hujja Aja Allahu ta'ala Farajah al-Sharif. What threat did he pose to Bani Abbas? And Imam who's in the Ghaiba today supposes a threat to people. How do we dissect all this? How do we understand this? The fear of truth prevailing because when you are on the other side of truth and you know that when this haqq or this truth prevails you have everything to lose and hence you will do everything in your power to conceal this truth because you being the representative of falsehood the basis of you assuming power is based on falsehood and manipulation the only manner in which you can preserve your seat is to eliminate the threat of your opposition which is also the embodiment of truth and hence you find this this is a this is within the norm and the seerah of all the dictators and the tyrants be them within the fold of religion or outside of the religion. The fear of truth prevailing this was one of the greatest fears of Yazid if Imam al-Hussein was allowed to be free within the earth within the lands he would expose the falsehood which Yazid and his fathers stood for the falsehood and the the the the inaccuracy the invalidity of the premise upon which they have got the seat of power and that's why i suppose in our in Zira Ashura and other Ziyaras we don't just condemn Yazid we condemn those who paved the way central there is an entire chain in that you see zulm does not happen overnight an oppressive power does not an oppressive party does not come into power overnight there are many prerequisites that have happened and you find that this is something by Nalqussein between brackets this is something that is applicable even when it comes to understanding al-amat al-duhor of Imam al-Hujja the advent of Sufiani it's not that just one day this Sufiani wakes up and causes havoc on earth Sufiani is a byproduct of many other injustices injustices that have happened along the way Yazid was a byproduct al-laeen of many injustices that have happened since the martyrdom of Rasulullah for you have this fear of you preserving your seat which is built on a premise of falsehood and this can only be obtained by concealing or by suppressing the truth number one and number two you have this driving motive which is understood from the text see this is also another important rule of thumb whenever we're trying to understand karbala whenever we're trying to analyze karbala we have to be very important that we don't put forward a wrong analysis or a wrong understanding of karbala the rule of thumb is that whenever you're analyzing karbala the stances of Imam al-Hujja what motivated the enemies that we go back to the texts where the imams themselves speak about this or the enemy out of his own account says the truth in terms of acknowledgement or confession you will find that the driving force behind one of the driving forces behind the Yazid's brutal pursuit and massacre of the holy family was his hatred towards Amir al-Mu'mineen salawatullahi wa salamu alayhi and this becomes manifest the proof for this is where the poetry that he recites when the sabayah brought into the shaham to paraphrase this poem or to translate it very briefly it goes along the lines that I wish my forefathers in Badr would have been here today to see the achievements and the grief of al-Muhammad referring back to what the time where Amir al-Mu'mineen was responsible for sending his forefathers to not jahannam in the battle of Badr so this hatred of Amir al-Mu'mineen is a driving force that that led these people to rally against Imam al-Hujja from the side of Obaidullah ibn Ziyad there are see in the army of Yazid you look at the psychology of the enemy you will find that within the numbers that fought against Imam al-Hujja each person was fighting Imam al-Hujja with a different motive and with a different understanding there were some who were there for the money there were some who were there out of fear because it was enforced military service sure if you didn't go forward for the war your family would get killed you would lose your house so that they really didn't want to fight Imam al-Hujja they knew he was on haqq but they couldn't take a stance forced military participation then you had those who thought no he's truly astray and that the Khilafah is truly with Yazid Allaheen so you have all these groups of people who come inside but coming to this thing of Amir al-Mu'mineen you find that even in the final moments of Karbala when Imam al-Hussein was in the battlefield and the enemy was not able to come close to him because of the ferocious mana in which Sayyid al-Shuhada was protecting himself and defending the family and the women this is after all his companions have died there is a party within the Makdal where it says they were reluctant to even come next to Imam al-Hussein they're reluctant to attack Imam al-Hussein what does Umar ibn Sa'ad al-La'een say to encourage and motivate his army to go forward and attack Imam al-Hussein because now imagine from military perspective war tactics the enemy is at the lowest level of moral, ajeeb they are at the lowest level of moral Imam al-Hussein all his family members have been killed he is the only one in the battlefield they are not able to come close the enemy says the more we attacked him the more his face began to glow with the noor of Allah Azza wa Jalla they're at the lowest level now they have done everything to bring down this man and they can't at that point to motivate them to go forward and fight Imam al-Hussein with one final attack and one final push with everything that they have what did Umar ibn Sa'ad say to motivate the people he didn't say go forward and i will double your reward or go forward and you will become governor of this and that what did he say he said oh people this is the son of the quarrel someone who killed our forefathers so they used the hatred of Amir al-Mu'minin as a motivational factor to go and attack him and you find this within the Makathil and it's these are the things indications that allow us to understand the psychology of the enemy and understand the brutality the extent of the brutality that they were ready to go for because they were driven by this emotion called hate hate of Amir al-Mu'minin al-Islam thank you month is there i believe you have some poetry prepared and related to this topic so if you could please maybe introduce it and please recite for us the tradition so it's um really about the atmosphere that surrounded Yazid at the time an ego fed by falsehood a facade raised up on lies the prince of the believers but is that really what they believed for if they believed for even a second in the actual truth then they would never have fought the one who spoke only the truth reform was Hussein's goal what he said about to bring Yazid toward his throne was at risk and his position as king was in danger that's why when Yazid said Bay'ah Hussein said hey heart when Yazid said Bay'ah Hussein said hey heart so Yazid resorted to killing him near Furat a river that today flows as a result of the lovers tears a river that today flows as a result of tears whilst near it is buried Hussein's nears and dears whilst near it buried as Hussein's nears and dears thank you absolutely beautiful said most and to carry on the discussion obviously we know quite clearly imam was killed i should describe the brutal moment it happened as well what did Yazid actually gain from this because you think he's won in a sense well what's what what is he gained from killing the imam and reality you know in the Quranic lady says one who takes one life is like you have taken the whole of humanity now how many died on the plains of Karbala and what was the cause of their death what was what was Yazid trying to gain from you know defeating or killing and butchering these people in the short term Yazid would have thought he has a you know mission accomplished that he has taken away the opposition and all roads now lead towards you know leading the muslim umma or the khalifat but in reality we see two things first of all we we know his Akhara is certain of of hellfire hellfire and secondly i think he underestimates the daughter of emir ur mu'min and how her and also the son of imam Hussein imam sajjad as-salam how they managed to convey the truth and the reality of what has happened on this on the tragic day of ashura and the reality of who these people really are because there was so much propaganda against bani hashe man against imam Hussein but later on we see from say the zaynab we also see from imam sajjad the efforts that they've put in that actually overturned the public opinion we know that as soon as they were captured people started to revolt against Yazid and what have you done this is the the grandson of how could you have done such a thing so in short term you know he may have thought that yes i have i have won and i am in power but the reality is thanks to say the zaynab and also to imam sajjad um he lost public opinion um and and public support which you know definitely led towards his doom what is it as in as a student how is imam Hussein won what do you what's he's won clearly and with the amount of people that remember him to you how has he won even though he was killed i think his victory is highlighted in his legacy more than the event um i think he's won because of what he left behind for us and he's won because the stuff that he left behind for us there is nobody that can claim that that stuff is related to 1400 years ago and is not related to today i think you look around you look at how much loyalty is valued today even within the youth right uh you don't want to be found uh backstabbing someone you know and i think there are kind of lessons that we learn from from karbala we learn from i'm saying how to how to stand in the face of people who want you to do something else to stand firm in what you believe in right and if that's not what it's respective to you then i don't know what is and i think that in itself highlights his victory yeah and and to wrap up shake i'm gonna ask you actually the same question as someone who serves the pulpit of imam hussein as the honor of doing so how does the victory although losing we have this famous phrase that's used a common proverb right losing the battle but winning the war sure um how do you as someone who serves a pulpit how do you witness that imam hussein has won um brother zamir if you ask me even the notion that the battle is lost i don't agree sure i don't think there is any aspect not i don't think i know there is no aspect of karbala that imam hussein did not win who said he died who said he died right the quran says do not consider the people who are slain in the way of allah's dead rather they are alive and seeking his risk so who said imam hussein died on ashura Allah imam hussein became immortal on the day of ashurah became alive till today 17 million people on the day of arba'in or on the ziyarah of arba'iniyah in its entirety paid tribute to this man who said hussein lost anything even when you come and you look at it from a warfare perspective 72 men fighting an army of 30 000 immediately on the field 70 000 with reserves leading to another 120 with further reserves as per the hadith what we understand 72 men to stand up against 30 000 up till the time of asr show me in the history of human warfare where this has happened and for them to have been inflicted with as many casualties who lost the war imam hussein definitely didn't lose the war he became immortal on the day of ashura and this is what i believe and this is the faith with which i hope that we're put into the grave that imam hussein was immortal at every step of karbala in terms of this the legacy of imam hussein one of the greatest things not the greatest one of the greatest is this power of inspiration when you're motivated to make change in life all you need to do is look back to imam hussein is to read over the history of imam hussein just read over the manner in which he was martyred and this in itself is powerful enough to make you change your destiny and your life there is no other human event that you can find from the anbiyah from the awliya that can cause as much change or has that much potential for a person to embark changes karbala so as a factor that inspires you towards change this is the greatest legacy of imam hussein salawatullahi wa salam and what's a wonderful note to close on before we close on a eulogy i would like to thank our guests first of all joining us and for our dear viewers at home who like me must have benefited greatly from this topic it's quite clear and i think the the clear message of today's show which which really hit me was that a tyrant is might have all the power on in the world but clearly it is a truth that they fear um one small um knock to their kingdom or their power with the truth can bring down the empire which is what imam hussein show uh was salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu a small eulogy in honor of the nights that we're in um remembering say the zaynab salamullahi ha small conversation between them me oh yeah but yeah O my brother, you are my son, you are my daughter, you are my brother, you are my son, I will be with you after the night, and you are my brother, you are my brother, you are my sister, and I am your brother, you are my brother, And beware of this day of colorful I've been yearning for you Afraid that you will have news I've been yearning for you Afraid that you will have news Oh, you want to be You are running through me Wa-bghurubti Ya kafili ma'ti jini Bilhamma qdai'umri Tidri la ma'ti dri Bilhamma qdai'umri Tidri la ma'ti dri Allah ma'sha'Allah ma'sha'Allah