 Alan, thank you so much for joining me on the highest level here today. I'm excited to talk about your path in basketball and beyond. But I do want to start in basketball because you were a college basketball player and you became a basketball performance coach. So just kind of take us back to the early stages of your career and talk about how do you become a basketball performance coach? Basketball was my first identifiable passion. And I fell in love with the game at five years old. And I think it's pretty cool here that 40 plus years later, basketball still plays a major role in my life. And, you know, having been a basketball player and wanting to be the best I was capable of towards the latter part of high school. And then throughout my entire career in college, I started to develop an equal love for the performance training side, the strength, the conditioning, the nutrition, the mindset, everything that went into being the best player I was capable of. And when the writing was on the wall that when college was done, my formal playing days would be officially over. I figured what could be a better career than combining my first love of basketball with my newfound love of performance training. So I decided to become a basketball performance coach. And this was in the late 1990s, early 2000s when there really weren't a lot of people doing that, you know, as you can probably appreciate having spent a life in football. Football, you know, strength and conditioning was basically intertwined into the fabric of what it took to play football. But for basketball, this was kind of newfound. You know, there were not very many players, coaches or teams that were doing strength and conditioning. In fact, when I graduated college, less than a third of NBA teams even had a strength and conditioning consultant. And I say that because if you fast forward to present day, every NBA team not only has a strength coach, they have an entire performance department that usually employs dozens of people because they realize how important that is. So I bring that up to put in context that when I first started, it was kind of uncharted territory. There weren't really many people doing this, which was really a gift. It gave me a chance to really explore and try things out. And it certainly opened up a plethora of opportunities because there was no other competition. It's not like there was a, you know, a million strength coaches knocking on the door to work Nike skills academies. It was just me. So it afforded me some opportunities. And for that, I'll be incredibly grateful. Yeah, that's really cool. And just for the audience and for my own personal knowledge, is this different when we say basketball performance coach? Like, are you working with a team or are you working with individuals? Or does it really just depend on the situation? Like you mentioned some camps a moment ago. So does it really just depend on the situation or just kind of describe the difference between the traditional strength and conditioning coach we might imagine? Yeah, well, so I did a little bit of both. And also for context, I mean, I was running my own training business. So I was self-employed. So this was actually how I earned my income. So I had, you know, a couple of dozen players that I would work with individually. And these were high school and middle of school age players. So their parents would pay me to train their children. But then I also did work with teams. I worked with two teams here in the Washington, D.C. area, both very notable programs. The first was Montrose Christian, which is where Kevin Durant graduated from. And the second was Demathec Catholic High School, where Victor Oladipo graduated from. And in the 13 years that I was at those two schools combined, I think we put over a dozen players in the NBA. So wow, it was very, very high level. And both of those programs were Nike flagship programs. So that got me an invitation to work the Nike Skills Academies with guys like Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Steve Nash, Kyrie Irving got me to do some work with Jordan Brand, with USA Basketball. So I was able to work one on one with players. I was able to work with a high school team and travel with them and attend their practices. And then I was able to work at camps where there was hundreds of players involved. So I've had experience working in all of those different capacities. But regardless of that, the goal was always the same, which was to help basketball players improve their athleticism and injury proof their body. So whether I was training a high school coach and teaching a high school coach on how they could train their players or I was training the players directly, the end goal was the same, which was to help them bulletproof their body and improve their basketball specific athleticism. And I enjoy doing that in a variety of different formats and modalities and really loved every minute of it for the 15 years that I was immersed in it. Yeah, sounds really cool. And I love kind of number one, the unconventional nature of your path in this, as you said, kind of this growing industry, so to speak, within basketball. And then I also just love kind of the ability to be in all these different, I guess, buckets or different levels. But yet you're still doing the same thing and maybe kind of similar to that. You work, you mentioned Kevin Durant and Victor Oladipo and some other NBA stars. Talk about them at an early age. Like obviously they had talent because they've got to the NBA. But maybe talk about some of the other things that you noticed about working with some of those special players early on in their careers. Absolutely. Well, before I do that, I want to say that one of the things that I'm most grateful for is that my career allowed me to have two very distinct vantage points, both of which I've kind of already shared. The first vantage point was meeting someone like Kevin Durant or Victor Oladipo when they were 14, 15 years old. So before they ascended to the top of the mountain, you know, I was part of the process of what it took to get there. So I got to see a peek behind that side of the curtain and see, all right, what are the habits and the mindsets and the daily behaviors that it takes to become the best in the world at your craft? But then that's what led to the work with Nike and Jordan Bran and USA basketball, where I got to be a fly on the wall on the other side of the curtain and take a look at Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Steve Nash and see what are players doing that, excuse me, have already reached the mountaintop? What are they doing to continually improve and evolve and grow? And what are they doing to sustain their level of excellence? So I've been able to see both camps, what it takes to get there and then what it takes to stay there and being able to draw from both of those experiences and learn lessons and pull strategies is what I believe gives me a very holistic approach now with the folks that I work with. And generally speaking, now I consider my job is to translate those principles and messages and lessons and strategies and show folks how to apply those to their lives, that, you know, the principles of high achievement and basketball have a tremendous amount of crossover into every area of our life, whether it's in business or in your personal lives. Those principles don't really change. And it's my job to show folks what they have in common with a LeBron James or a Kobe Bryant. But to answer your original question, yes, Kevin Durant and Victor Oladipo were certainly born with certain genetic predispositions that would allow them to be good at the game of basketball. But there's a lot of people that were born with some of those favorable dispositions and a lot of people don't actualize them. So what actually allows someone like Kevin Durant to be a very talented 14 year old and then ascend to being one of the best scores in the history of the game? There's a few components. One is a belief in the basics and a commitment to the fundamentals. It's a respect for the game and not trying to skip steps. It's understanding that that the fundamentals will be the foundation to which the rest of your house is built. Another part is simply passion, you know, Kevin Durant and Victor Oladipo are two of the most passionate players that I've ever met. There's no place in the world they would have rather been when they were teenagers than in the gym working on their game. They didn't play the game of basketball for money or for notoriety. They played it because they loved it and fame and money and notoriety were just a byproduct of that. It wasn't the the intent or the purpose. They love the game. Something else that makes those those guys in particular unique is they did a masterful job of blending confidence with humility. They were both very, very confident players because they earned the right to be confident through the work they put in during the unseen hours. But they always had a humility and an openness to the feedback and an openness to being coached that no matter how good they were, they never thought they arrived. They never thought they were done. You know, Kevin Durant would never let you put him under museum glass and say he's a finished product. Even to this day, he's still constantly trying to tweak and refine and get better at his craft. So blending that confidence and belief that I deserve to be here. And I am a great player and I'm going to get this bucket mixed with I'm still open to getting better. And if you can see a room for improvement or an opportunity for growth in my game, then I'm open to hearing it and I'm open to being coached. And when you take the physical talent with the mindset and the toughness combined with those attributes I just shared, you have the recipe of being elite at what you do. Yeah, and I'm really glad that you outlined that the way you did right there, Alan, that's that's awesome to hear, because I think as you mentioned, we often look at them and we look at what they've achieved and their and their size and their raw talent. And we think that that's that's a huge piece. Now, it does play a factor, right? Like, you know, if you're five, ten, probably not going to last very long in the NBA, you have to be a very special talent. But it's these other pieces that were really the integral parts that allowed them to elevate their game. You mentioned confidence with humility. I know Tom Coughlin, the former New York Giants head coach, he has a great quote, which humble enough to prepare and confident enough to perform. And that's exactly what you just said with the mentality of these great NBA players, even at an early age. And when we had first connected, I shared with you my new book, Finding Intangibles. And there are so many intangibles that that these great players have. And I tried my best to kind of bucket them, if you will. And I kind of created three buckets and two of them, you just specifically outlined mindset and heart. And I kind of classify passion, competitiveness, this ambition to be great as part of the heart bucket. But then also this growth mindset, this this I'm not done. I'm the best player in the DMV area. And that doesn't that doesn't define me. I still have other places I want to go. Right now, I want to be a D1 player and I need to work on these areas of my game. And I'm sure when he got to D1, it was the exact same thing. He was continuing to elevate his sights. So I'm really glad you touched on those, because those were the same things I saw in my football career. Awesome. I knew we'd have a lot of alignment. I knew we'd have a fun conversation, you know, for that very reason. And, you know, where I'm incredibly optimistic now that I spend more time on the business side of things. While I do believe that your physical health and well-being bleeds over into other areas of your life. And I do believe that in order for you to have mental focus and acuity, in order for you to be high energy, to do your job. It's in your best interest to be physically fit and to to watch what you eat and so forth. However, the physicality component and requirements are thrown out the window when you're talking about the general population. As you mentioned, to make it in the NBA, if you're 5'10, it makes it that much harder. You know, if you're not very athletic or very fast or strong, you know, the odds are really stacked against you. But we don't have to worry about that in the business world or in the real world. Because if you're the CEO, it doesn't matter if you're 5'10 or 7'10. It doesn't matter if you can run a how fast you run a 40 or how much you can bench press because we don't worry about the physical markers in those areas. So while it may be an inhibitor to play in the NBA or NFL, if you don't have certain physical gifts, we don't have to worry about any of that in business. You know, when you wrote your book, it didn't matter how tall you were, how fast you were to write the book, all that mattered was the content and the research and the heart and love that you put into that book. So it's a great equalizer. So for anyone that's looking to play a professional sport, yes, the physicality component is a piece of that. One could argue the most important piece because without it, you've really got no chance. But for the rest of us and the rest of our lives and in the rest of the world, that stuff doesn't matter. And to me, that's when these things become even more important. So if your goal is to be an author or an entrepreneur or to be a manager or a director or a CEO or an executive, then you can focus entirely on things like focusing on the basics, on your mindset, on your heart, on your passion, on being open and humble. And so to me, that's that's the best news of it all is when we're trying to be excellent in any of these areas of our life, we're never limited by the physical component. Yes. And you you hit on something a moment ago, you said basics. And I know this is a fundamental piece to a lot of the work that you've done with some of the best NBA players. And I want to touch on something. I've heard you talk about this before being the warm up guy. And I can relate early on in my football career, when I first started at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas, I was the ops intern. But really what that meant was I was the Chick-fil-A guy. I was the guy that passed out Chick-fil-A as everybody got on the bus. I was the study hall monitor. I wasn't necessarily doing a lot of on the field coaching or anything that affected on the field play, but I was learning. And I've heard you talk about being the warm up guy. And so just kind of take us back to that that early time as you were progressing in your basketball performance coach career and talk about the value of being the warm up guy. I'm so glad you went in this direction. I mean, this is something I can say with a smile because there's a tremendous amount of pride now with hindsight being 2020. But when I was working at Montrose Senate with D'Amatha and then I would work events for Nike and Jordan, Brandon, USA basketball, my primary role was to warm the team up before practice or before games, was to get them mentally and physically prepared to play and to compete at the highest level. And most of the time there was a time restriction on that. You know, I had 10 minutes to warm the players up. So when you look at the entire big picture, you know, I didn't have a lot of time for what I was doing. But I took what I was doing very seriously and I realized that the warm up component, both the mental and physical portion would set the foundation and set the tone for the practice or the game or the work out to follow. So while, you know, quantitatively, it might not have necessitated a lot of time, qualitatively, it was really important and it was integral to getting the players to be the best they could be. So I took that job very seriously. I mean, I planned, I prepared and I executed that 10 minutes to the absolute best of my ability. And yes, I was affectionately known as the warm up guy, but I was OK with that. That wasn't, I didn't look at that as a diminished title. I looked at that simply as I'm the base layer or I'm the foundation to which the rest of this day is going to be built. And if I can warm these players up properly and get them fully engaged, then they will have a better practice or they will compete at a higher level during the game. So my role is important and I embraced it as such. However, with that being said, I realized that there was still a fork in the road that when I was working these Nike skills academies or I was going to be at a demath of practice that I could simply just show up, do my 10 minutes and then roll out because that's all I was asked to do. Or I could take pride in being what I call a utility player. And say, OK, here's all I'm being asked to do, but this isn't all that I have to contribute. I can stay for practice and I can rebound. I can wipe the floor. I can hand out Gatorade. I never got a chance to hand out Chick-fil-A, which is the shame, because I love Chick-fil-A and I probably would have kept a couple sandwiches for myself, but how can I add value to everything that's going on above and beyond what's expected of me? More importantly, can I be a sponge and soak up during the practice and game, what the coach is teaching? You know, can I learn different coaching techniques? Can I become a more effective communicator? Can I watch the drills that they're doing during practice or a workout and figure out how I can mimic those drills in my own training sessions? So now that things are more cohesive. So my goal every time I was was at an event or at a practice or a game was to add as much value as I could. So I've never looked at my work as kind of a clock puncher. OK, I did my 10 minutes. I'll see you guys later. It's I did my 10 minutes to the best of my ability. Now, what else do you need? And whatever it is that you need, there's nothing that's beneath me. You need me to sweep the floor, I'll sweep the floor. You need me to hand out water, I'll hand out water. If you need me simply to sit back and observe, then I'll do that. But I was all about improving, adding value and working on my craft, even when it wasn't required. And I'm a huge believer that that's what opened up additional doors. You know, the reason Nike kept having me back at their skills academies wasn't because I was the best in the world at warming players up. It's because I could warm players up at a decent level, but then I could add value in different ways. And I think that's an important lesson for folks to draw on is consistently do more than you're asked to do, consistently do more than you're expected to do, and doors will open up automatically for you. Yeah, and I think this is really important. I'm really glad that you illustrated exactly what was happening during this time, because it's very easy just to look at what you do in terms of a title or in terms of your role. And if you don't find out the story behind certain individuals, it's hard to really understand like you would think, oh, well, he just did the first 10 minutes of practice. What did he really do? Oh, he was just passing out Chick-fil-A's like, who cares? Anybody could pass out Chick-fil-A's. But I must tell you, Alan, I I share the same philosophy that you do. My mentality was I was going to be the best Chick-fil-A pass her out or in the nation. And like I said that on a podcast a couple of weeks ago and they were laughing and they're like, haha, and I was like, no, I'm dead serious. Like that is the way I approached everything I did. In the only way I was able to go from coaching fourth grade football to the NFL was with this mentality. It wasn't because I was the most talented or I was the best warm up guy or whatever. And I'm really glad you illustrated the learning that was occurring during this time, because I think sometimes that can be overlooked and yet is a huge part to all of our stories. Absolutely. I mean, I try and be as observant as I can everywhere that I go. And and realize that I have an opportunity in all of these situations that I'm afforded the opportunity to learn from some of the best coaches on the planet and to watch some of the best players on the planet. So I would be a fool not to try to either add value or sit back and soak all of that up. You'll actually appreciate this story. So I don't know when this will air, but right now we're a couple of days after the national championship game of college basketball. And I went to the final four in New Orleans and I was on a flight from DC to New Orleans and there happened to be a basketball coach that I promise you, excuse me, I have not seen in 20 years. And he immediately came up, tapped me on the shoulder. And he used to always call me the push up and sit up guy. But he didn't call me the warm up guy. Just call me the push up and sit up guy. And 20 years later, he taps me on the shoulder and he's like the push up and sit up guy coming to New Orleans for the final four. And we just that we shared a nice laugh and a nice moment. Like he still remembered that and he didn't say it in a way to box me in. And he wasn't saying it in a way like you're only the push up and sit up guy. It was just his trigger of how he remembered me and and what I used to have players do and so forth. So I just thought it was cool that that stuck because if my job was nominal and I was not adding value, he would never have remembered me. He wouldn't even have remembered that I was the push up and sit up guy. But something about that experience made it sticky and he remembered. So I actually thought that was cool. We had a great laugh about it. And yeah, I took pride then and I take pride now in being the push up and sit up guy. I was just about to say you should take great pride in that because it kind of is very indicative of of course you've had the success. You've worked with these great players. But like without recognizing the path and as you've mentioned, kind of like laying the foundation for this greatness that laid before you, you're really doing a disservice. It's not about the results. It's about that journey that allowed you the opportunity to do what you do now. So I love that and I love that they're still coming to you. You know, you're talking about setting the foundation and I just kind of love that idea that even if your role isn't where you want to be or even if you desire to do more, as you just said, what are you doing to put yourself in that position? So when that opportunity does come, you're ready for it. And also what ways or what other ways can you add value? Not not just being satisfied with, OK, I'm the push up and sit up guy. That guy didn't remember you because you were the push up and sit up guy. He remembered you because of the attitude that you brought in that role. Most certainly, man, you're taking this in a wonderful direction. You know, there's a concept that I really believe in that says Star where you are. So regardless of your role, whether you're Kevin Durant or you're the guy handing out Chick-fil-A on the way to boarding a bus, you know, put everything you have into your role, take pride in your role, embrace your role and make a maximum contribution in your role. Now, if you have aspirations of expanding your role, then you come in during the unseen hours and you put in extra work to deserve the opportunity to expand your role or you find ways within your current role to add so much value that the people that are the decision makers would be foolish not to give you more responsibility or not to give you more opportunities. And you know, that's really the key. So many people and please know, and I want to go on record in saying this, with all of this stuff I'm sharing and everything I share in my books and so forth, I'm not coming from a place of mastery. You know, I don't do these things perfectly all of the time. These are the macro lessons that I've pulled now with 25 years of of experience and afforded the opportunity of looking back in hindsight. There have certainly been opportunity. There have certainly been times in the past where I did not take advantage of opportunities where maybe I played in my role a little bit smaller and maybe even pouted that I didn't have a bigger role. And I've fully reconciled that and I've given my previous self some grace and some compassion because no one's perfect. But generally speaking, this is the mindset that I have now. And that is star where you are, but work for opportunities. And the more you can contribute and the more you add value, those doors will just open for you. If you spend too much time with one foot out of the door or not focusing on your current role because you're so busy trying to jockey or politic or position for a bigger role, then you're kind of defeating the purpose. And, you know, those types of lessons have come with age and life experience and maturity. You know, if if you were conducting this interview with the 26 year old Alan, you'd probably get very different answers, you know, where I'm incredibly grateful is I've had some amazing mentors and coaches in my life that kind of led this way. Like they just showed that, hey, no matter what your role is, make a maximum contribution and then try and do a little extra. So that's really all that I knew. So these weren't concepts that I invented or that I came up with. This is what was modeled for me and I'm very grateful for that. So just know that with any of this stuff that that mastering, I don't have the game of life on lock. I've not mastered life yet. I like the path that I'm on. I like the progress that I've made. I'm thankful for the lessons that I've learned. And I feel that I'm headed in the right direction. And the cool part is, if you have me on your podcast 10 years from now, you may get an entirely different set of answers and interviews. And I'm OK with that because it means I'm still evolving and I'm still growing. Yeah, we used to say in football, ongoing skill and technique development. We say who here is a finished product? Who here is done is done performing or done developing? And of course, the answer is none of us, right? Even the coaches and I also like what you said a moment ago, giving yourself compassion, your past self compassion, because I fall victim to this. I grew up in Dallas, Texas. I was coaching at a division one school here, SMU, during a time where they were just kind of coming out of this lull of losing and kind of had progressed to having their first winning season. And I can remember during those four years I was here, I was always obviously hustling, trying to be better at passing out the Chick-fil-A, better at filming practice, better at performing my role as an on the field coach. But I was always kind of trying to get the next job. And I look back and that was the best four years of my coaching career. I was in my early 20s. I wasn't making any money. I was living in grandma and grandpa's pool house, but I was I was living my dream. And not to a hundred percent appreciated in the moment, or as you said, star in your role is something that I'm hard on myself about. But I like what you said. It's probably time to give past Evan a little bit of compassion. And I think we can all learn a lesson from that. Definitely do. You know, being a high performer yourself and being surrounded by high performers, that it's very easy for us to be incredibly self critical. And it's very easy to judge ourselves very harshly. More so than the fact we would ever judge or criticize someone else. You know, what I've learned to do. Some days I do a pretty good job of this. Some days not so much, but I'm training myself to speak to myself the same way I would speak to a close friend or a loved one. You know, I know that you and I are just now getting acquainted. And hopefully this is the beginning of a friendship. But, you know, we don't know each other really well. But for this hypothetical, let's just assume we've been, you know, BFFs for 10 years. If you made a mistake or you had a rough day or you had a lapse in judgment, I would try and comfort you, I would show you compassion. I'd either literally or figuratively put my arm around you and say, don't worry about it, man, we're going to get out of this or you're going to be OK. Or we're going to find a way to resolve this. Like I would support you because I would care about you as a friend. And most people, if they care about someone, that's the way they would approach them. And then when we turn the looking glass inward, we do the exact opposite. We start self loathing. We feel guilty. We feel shamed. We beat ourselves up. You know, we I'm so stupid. I can't believe I did that. You know, I can't believe the 21 year old Allen did not have life figured out. Boy, what a loser that guy was. And now it's comical. I mean, the 46 year old Allen doesn't have life figured out. So the 21 year old Allen didn't even have a chance. Now there's been growth between those two versions of myself. And for that, I'm thankful. And they'll be just as much growth between now and the 70 year old Allen. But I've learned to kind of forgive myself. And I know that in some way, shape or form, at that time in my life, even with many of the boneheaded mistakes that I've made and trust me, there have been plenty at that time, I was doing the best I could with what I had, I just didn't have the tools or the awareness that I have now. And I use that same philosophy with everyone that I meet, even if you and I were to fundamentally disagree on a perspective and there's plenty of things in the world going on right now that we could be divisive on and disagree with. But I start now to hopefully add some value to humanity. Any time someone disagrees with me, I give them the benefit of the doubt that they're doing the best they can with their current level of awareness. And they're doing the best they can with the information that they have. They're not intentionally trying to say something that that I disagree with, or sometimes that I think is completely absurd, but they're doing the best they can with the information they have. And I fully recognize that every single one of us is navigating life through a very limited window. You know, we were heavily biased in our perspective based on where we were raised, who we were raised by, how we were raised, who our friends were, how we were parented, what we've read, watched and listened to, who we follow on social media, what we consume on Netflix. Like all of these inputs have a tremendous influence over our output. And where I have learned to have some acceptance, if you and I tend to disagree on something, even if it's a fundamental principle, I can see the fact that if I grew up where you grew up and I was raised the way you were raised and I read, watch and listen to everything that you've read, watched and listened to, I would probably think the same thing that you think, you know, it's a very arrogant and self-righteous approach for me to think, have I lived in your shoes? I would still agree with me. I would still think what I'm thinking. You know, that's that's incredibly self-righteous. Everybody's limited to their own biases and their experiences and they're doing the best they can. And I don't say that to condone abhorrent behavior or truly evil perspectives. I'm just saying on a macro level, I do think people are trying the best they can. And that includes the 21 year old Alan or the 21 year old Evan, who through hindsight we can agree, maybe didn't make the best decisions. But we certainly at the time thought they were the right decision. No one consciously makes a poor decision. No one, you know, some of that is in our unconscious wiring. And some of it's just from lack of of understanding and awareness and knowledge. But that's what's helped me forgive my previous self and which helps give me empathy and compassion when I meet others who I think might be falling short or maybe I disagree with. Yeah. And what I'm hearing a lot of is obviously empathy. And this is something I feel really strongly about in terms of coaching and where a lot of coaches can improve in terms of showing a little bit of vulnerability in their own areas that they lack because nobody's perfect. But then also as you're so well described, just having a little bit of compassion and a little bit of empathy from where other people are coming from and the experiences that they've had that have been completely different from your own to reach the exact same room. So this could be we don't have to wait 10 years to have another podcast. But we can definitely dig into this further on the next one. We can do a whole series of this. Oh, OK, yes. Let's have another thought. We need to work. Oh, go ahead, please. No, I was just going to say this this kind of spawned another thought, which which often gets piled on to the self criticism that many people display to themselves. Then we also start to overvalue other people's judgments and what other people think of us. And and I know this one is a little bit slippery. So here's how I view it. I do care what other people think. I do care what people think about me and I care what they think about my work, because ultimately I'm trying to be of service to them. So if I miss the mark, if I put out a piece of content or I make a video or do something that people don't find a value, I want to be open to their feedback so that I can course correct, because that's the reason for doing it. This is not about pandering for someone's affection or adoration. Yes, I have preferences. I would prefer to be liked than disliked. I think most people, if they're being honest, could agree with that. That doesn't mean that I live my life trying to vie for other people's approval or affection, but it's simply a preference. And, you know, the reason I bring that up is I've worked really hard over the last couple of years in particular to make sure that my self worth, my self confidence, my self belief, all of that is internal and it is not dependent on external validation, external metrics or what other people think about me. So there's a difference between the two. If I write a blog post and you read it and don't agree with it or don't enjoy it and you offer me some feedback, I'm open to that and I appreciate that. I can depersonalize that. I don't take it as a personal attack, but I also don't let that affect how I feel about myself because when we attach our self worth and our self belief into external validation and to the external metrics that I think society is trying to get us to buy into, then we're going to constantly ebb and flow. Because ultimately that means if we're so tied to outcomes and results, then that means when I'm achieving, I feel good about myself. When I fall short of a goal, then I feel bad about myself. And I don't want to live on that roller coaster. You know, I'm of the belief that if you set your goals appropriately, you don't reach them all that you have such lofty aspirations and you aim so high, you're going to fall short sometimes. And when you can learn to love the journey and love the process and learn lessons when you fall short, still feel good about yourself when you fall short, but find a way to get back up and still pursue that goal. Then you've already won the game. It doesn't matter what anybody else says at that point. And, you know, it's it's taken me 40 plus years to get even close to having that type of mindset, because I would be so attached to outcomes that if I put out a video that everybody liked, I felt good. If I put out a video that nobody liked, I felt bad. And that gives your power away. That makes you makes you nothing more than a puppet to life, because now you're being controlled by someone's, you know, opinion or perspective that you're being controlled by the circumstances and events that go on in the world around you. And I don't want that to be the case. I want all of that to come from the inside. And that's ultimately what I'm working towards is not letting the outer world, what people say, what people do, circumstances and events, not letting that stuff dictate my inner world, my attitude, my mindset and how I feel. Now, with that being said, and I alluded to it earlier, I still have preferences. This does not mean that everything that goes on in the world is to my liking or is my preference. It simply means I accept that what's going on in the world is outside of my control. I can't do anything about it, except choose how to respond to those things. And I'm getting much better at more consistently choosing responses that move me forward and move me closer to fulfillment. And that's the part I have control over. And that's, to me, an incredibly liberating feeling. Yeah, you said it very well. And I think this is hard to do for younger performers, specifically athletes. Right. There's two pieces I want to touch on for what you just said, because I equate this to ignoring the noise. And obviously, this comes back to focusing on what truly matters. Or as some coaches like to say, controlling the controllables. And so the ability to kind of block out either, we all say, the haters. But it really goes in another direction, too. And that's the second piece I wanted to touch on. It's not just people that don't agree with you and not letting them influence you. But it's also the people that are telling you how well you're doing. And I think this is a part that's overlooked. Dealing with failure and dealing with success is really comes back to your mindset. And obviously, I know you live in the high performance world and you've worked with these extreme high performance athletes. And I think Kobe Bryant is probably the best example of any athlete in the last 30, 40 years, but it's like, as soon as he won a championship, you know, hey, how'd you celebrate the championship? Kobe, did you go to Italy? Were you in St. Bart's? Like, what did you do? He's like, I woke up at 6 a.m. I slept in till 6 a.m. And I went and worked out three times that next day. And it's like this inability to let the people that are telling you how great you're doing influence you to taking your foot off that gas pedal. And I think what you just described goes both ways for people that don't maybe see things the way you do, but also people that do see things the way you do. And not being influenced too greatly by either. Absolutely. And where we have some locus of control over that is learning not to play the comparison game because there's dangers in comparing your highs with other people's highs and there's dangers in comparing your lows with other people's lows. And this is another area as I've tried to evolve and grow as a human being is to look at more things through the lens of neutrality instead of good and bad and right or wrong, you know, and being very self-aware. So for Kobe Bryant, winning a championship, sleeping until six and working out three times the next day was the right fit for him. But it doesn't mean that's the way all of us should approach it. In fact, if one of his teammates, if Paul Gasol, who wins a championship, decides to sleep until noon and then fly back to Spain to spend three weeks, that's right for him. And I don't attach judgment to either one of those. And I don't think that means Kobe's better than Paul or that Kobe loves the game more than Paul or Kobe's more committed. Everybody's got to find their own path. And that's where I think it can be a really slippery slope is when we make those comparisons, if a young player is thinking to themselves, you know, the only way for me to be a great basketball player is to do what Kobe Bryant does and work out three times a day. You know, that might not be the best path for them. You know, even to Kobe's own admission, he was obsessed with being the greatest player of all time. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you if you don't share that same obsession. So I think everyone needs to find their own their own path. You know, I know personally I take my physical wellness very seriously. I work out consistently. I eat healthy most of the time. I emphasize getting quality sleep. But I also give myself a break. You know, if I wake up one day and I'm just dragging and I'm not feeling it. I may skip a workout and just say today I'm just going to let my mind and body rest. I'm going to jump back on that proverbial horse tomorrow morning. And I do so with no guilt. I don't beat myself up over that. I allow myself to be human. And I think that's really, really important. Now, Kobe might have a different approach. He may say I never missed a workout in my 20 year career. That's OK. That worked for him. So we just have to be careful playing the comparison game. One of the reasons this game has become exponentially more dangerous is that everything we see in the world today is taken out of context and is only a snapshot. You know, all you see is one Instagram picture of your favorite player making a post about the workout they just got. You don't really know anything else that's in and around that. You have such limited information. So I just think it's important that we all work to run our own race, that we have the awareness to figure out which of these things work best for us and which don't and be OK with the fact that everyone's going to do things slightly differently. And for me, giving myself forgiveness and grace and being kind to myself on days when I'm less than stellar is a big portion of that. And, you know, yeah, I think that's probably one of the biggest changes that I've made, but I'm glad that you brought this concept up of blocking out the noise to me is the noise needs a little bit of a filter, because there is some part of the noise that if you let it seep through, it can actually be helpful and beneficial to making improvements. But then some of it not so much. And that's why if someone chooses to judge me as a human being and my entire body of work based on one post that they didn't like, I can kind of chuckle at that. I mean, they're they're making assumptions about me and my character. When all they know is one tweet that they saw that maybe they disagreed with the premise and that's OK. So I don't try to argue it. I don't try to convince them. I don't try to justify it. I just say that they've made the decision to judge me based on one little snapshot. And because that doesn't feel good when people do that, I try really hard not to make that same judgment and assumption from everybody else. Yeah, I like that. Do not argue with them, please. Do not get do not get dragged into that. But actually, I wanted to talk to you about something or ask you a question. And it actually pertains to what we're talking about. And in my work, really kind of more team focused, more organizational focused, even though a lot of the pieces are similar in an individual's high performance, there is a piece in a team which is making it all about the people and really the importance of the people that surround you. And even though when we're talking about individual performance, yes, you have maybe teammates or people that you rely on for certain aspects of your performance, talk about the people that surround you. And I don't know if that kind of brings up stories of your own with people that had surrounded you or stories of people that you've worked with where they had strong or maybe weak circles of influence that surrounded them. But just kind of talk about how the people that surround you influence directly and indirectly your own high performance. Well, the folks that I've chosen to insulate myself with play a massive role in my performance and in any perceived success that I may have. And most of them are kind of behind the scenes. They're in the unseen hours. You know, it's very easy. So I don't like to confine myself with labels or put myself in a box. But I guess by definition, vocationally, I'm a keynote speaker, which means it's me standing on stage with a microphone, sharing the message. And it's very easy for someone to see that and think, well, it's just him. This guy's up here talking and it's very easy for them to forget about the team that I have behind me that allows me to do that. You know, and I've got three or four members of my team that are integral in keeping the business going and creating these opportunities for me to speak, to repurpose content socially so that I can grow my brand and share that message and those folks not only are imperative in my success and performance, but they're also the ones that hold me to the highest level of accountability. They're also the ones that that I ask for them to call me out, maybe when I'm not doing my best or whatever that may be. So I'm very selective in who I have kind of on my dream team, if you will. And and I've got some wonderful people and very appreciative of that. You know, it's so obvious and even with a game like like football or basketball, which are the prototypical team sports, you know, everybody looks on the court and says, OK, obviously these five players in basketball are teammates and they need to play together. And yeah, there's some guys sitting on the bench and I see a coach there. OK, yeah, they all but there's even so much more to it than that. I mean, at the very beginning of this conversation, we talked about, you know, there's an entire performance division. You know, you've got nutritionists, massage therapists, chefs, you know, cryo therapists. I mean, there's so many people that go into that performance. So you get five guys on the court playing basketball that needs to work together, but you probably have a hundred people behind the scenes that allow those five players to get on the court and play together. And nobody ever really sees or talks about them. And, you know, in the speaking world, and I say this every time I speak, you know, some of the most influential people at the event, the day of is the AV team. You know, it's the people that are actually got me miked up and making sure that AV and everything is working correctly. And I always joke with those folks that they're the unseen unsung heroes, you know, because if their job is done perfectly, no one notices them or says a word, the only time anyone notices them is when something isn't working. When the microphone malfunctions or the slide deck goes blank and then people notice and they catch some guff for it. So imagine having a job that your best performance means no one notices you. I mean, that's the definition of being an unsung hero. So I go out of my way to thank them and let them know you allowed me to get on stage and give my best and you guys quietly played the background, but please know how much I appreciate you and value you. So I think I don't think there's any such thing as a self-made person or a self-made business, if you will. It's that old adage that it takes a village and it certainly does in every facet of life. So I try to make sure I go out of my way to show appreciation and thanks and support to those people that are in those unsung unsung roles. Yeah, I mean, even as you're talking, there's so many different stories that come to mind for me. I mean, offensive linemen in football are very similar to what you just described. You know, they do they can play actually they can have their best game of the year, but they they slip just once and get that quarterback tackled. Man, that's all anybody's talking about on the bus after the game or on TV. And it's like this thankless job. And everybody else gets all the praise when everything goes well. And you said it 100 percent. And this is why I believe somebody like the offensive line is ends up being the heartbeat of a football team. Absolutely. Well, here's a story that kind of ties a few of the threads together that we've been speaking of. And I don't say this to boast. Some people take it that way. I decided that one of the things I was going to make a commitment to doing this year is travel open back up and I'm back on stage just speaking is. And I stay in a lot of hotels. I bring a stack of my thank you cards and every night that I'm staying at a hotel, I write a thank you note and I leave ten dollars to the person that that cleans the room and, you know, again, if that's ten dollars a night, so if I'm staying somewhere for a couple of nights, you know, I'm going to make sure I leave them that and I write something to the effect of on the thank you note. You know, I really appreciate the sacrifice and commitment you make to providing a beautiful and clean room, you know, you might be doing your work during the unseen hours, but I notice it and I appreciate it. You know, here's a few dollars to show you as a token of my appreciation. And I've taken some pictures of that and I've posted it on social media. And I do that not for praise or for anyone to think that I'm the same. I do it in hopes that that will spark other people that want to do the same thing that someone sees that post and goes, wow, that's a good idea. You know, people that clean rooms and hotels are the definition of unsung heroes and do all of their work during the unseen hours. We know how hard the hospitality industry has been hit over the last couple of years. I'm going to take Alan's lead and I'm going to do the same thing. But with that being said, every time I make that post, a few people comment and think that I'm either boasting about it or they're like, well, you're defeating the purpose by posting it and I'm OK with them thinking that like I stand by the fact that the only reason I post it is to hopefully encourage others to do it and but that's an example of I'm living my truth and doing something that I believe is adding value to another human life. And I try to spread that with others and some people like that and some people don't and I'm OK with that. But, you know, trying I want to go every day of my life and try to make someone feel heard or seen that doesn't normally feel heard or seen, whether that's the AV person at one of my keynotes or that's the person that cleans the room or that's me sending a text to somebody on my team that does stuff behind the scenes. You know, that's my goal every single day is to make sure someone feels seen and heard. I love that. And I think you should continue to share things like that for me personally. I've always been very passionate about writing handwritten thank you notes. And that inspired me. So please keep sharing those stories like that because ultimately the people are going to hate, they're never going to they're never going to be inspired. But but people like myself that is inspiring. So I'm glad you shared that. Thank you. It's also been my experience, you know, when we talk about the haters, if you will, more times than not when someone says something intentionally negative or tries to diminish or demean you or the work that you're doing, it's much more of a reflection of where they are in the moment than it is of the work that you're putting out. And this, again, is where I have compassion and empathy. You know, somebody might have just had the most rotten day. You know, they one of their loved ones got sick. They they they got in trouble with their boss, you know, whatever it may be. And they're in a really low place. They see your post, they take it as you bragging and and they lash out real quickly. It doesn't mean that behavior is acceptable, but it's certainly understandable. So anytime someone is hating on what I'm doing, I don't take it personal. It's probably a reflection of where they are. And I know that when I'm in a low mood, that's not the best time for me to be commenting on people's posts or that's not the best time for me to to reach out and have conversations. Thankfully, I have the awareness that I've learned, you know, and I know this word has a different connotation now. But I quarantine myself off when I'm when I'm in a low mood, because I know that that's not the best time for me to make decisions. And so so I give those people grace. I don't ever take it personal. But it's it's often a reflection of where they are in that moment. And yes, that I can I can appreciate and understand. Yes. Well, you and I certainly get passionate about a lot of these topics. I wanted to talk about your book. And of course, we've taken all this time to kind of go down all these different avenues, which has been great. But please tell the audience just about your new book, how the book came about. And I know it's as you mentioned, this is early April. This will post here in a couple of weeks. So probably late April, early May. And so just tell us about your book. And obviously now listening to this where we can find it. So my first book, Raise Your Game came out in January of 2019. And the goal of that book was to give folks practical, actionable strategies on how they could, excuse me, reach optimal performance. The new book, which will come out April 12th. So by the time folks listen and watch this, it'll be available. It's called Sustain Your Game. And it's how we can continue to sustain excellence for long periods of time. But more specifically, especially on the heels of a two year pandemic, how we can manage stress, avoid stagnation and beat burnout. Three things that I think have exponentially been heightened over the course of the pandemic. And really, these these two books are kind of going back to what I talked about in my early work in the performance days. You know, I got to see Victor Oladipo and Kevin Durant, how they reached optimal performance and raised their game. And then I got to see LeBron James and Kobe Bryant and got to see how they sustained excellence and sustained their game. So I believe that both books in tandem will give folks, you know, practical lessons and principles on how to do that. You can find it in both books, wherever you get your books from, whether it's Amazon or Barnes & Noble, or if you want to listen to the audio book. I did the narration for both and those are easily found wherever you listen to audio books, but more specifically, if you want information on the new book, you can go to sustainyourgamebook.com. You can also easily find links at alansteinjr.com and strongerteam.com. And then I'm very easily found on social and I love to engage with folks even when they have differing opinions. And I'm just at alansteinjr on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn. Never mind a respectful and civil professional debate. And certainly love keeping the conversation going. So if anyone wants to read or listen to either book or just reach out with a question or a comment, always enjoy the engagement part. That is great. We're going to include that in the show notes and Alan, thank you so much for joining me here today. This was an awesome conversation and I enjoyed learning about you and excited to read your new book. So thank you so much for joining me on the highest level today. Thanks, Evan. This was a lot of fun. You did a great job. You made my job easy and I appreciated it and enjoyed it immensely. Awesome. Talk soon, brother. You got it.